[IC] G20 Semiotic (Currently available from PMK)

[Tom_Kazansky]

The next step will be a high-res orthographic render of all the kits with all the keys. Stay tuned!

been waiting for this 

[iFreilicht]

Here's an updated Extras kit. Just a small tweak to the ISO Return key, and the addition of the toprow \| key.

(Attachment Link)

The next step will be a high-res orthographic render of all the kits with all the keys. Stay tuned!

Oh man, 1u \| is a great addition, that means I can already use this set on my current board and layout.

Also, if you finish the renders, I'd be willing to pop them into an imgur album and post that to /r/mk to give this set a bit of exposure.

[zslane]

Here are all the keycaps, separated by kit. Note that the \| key appears in both the Topstripe and the Extras kit, but I feel it should only be in one or the other. Which kit should it go in?



Here are some empty keyboards too, scaled to match the size of the keycaps in the render above. I figured this might help folks play around with keycap arrangements.

[ndlu2]

I don't think signature plastics has a mold for g20 iso enter.

[zslane]

No, you're totally correct, they don't. The Extras kit would come with the DCS version instead. Better than none at all, I figure.

[mogo]

No, you're totally correct, they don't. The Extras kit would come with the DCS version instead. Better than none at all, I figure.

DCS? Or DSA?

[zslane]

They're the same thing.

[iFreilicht]

Link to reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5ckebj/buying_g20_semiotic/

[wilarseny]

DCS? Or DSA?

They're the same thing.

No? https://deskthority.net/wiki/Signature_Plastics_DCS_family , http://keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php. Unless you mean just the iso enter is the same?

Anyway, would love this in anything other than G20. I realize that's half the point for OP, but as someone really into the overall concept, dealbreaker for me.

[japanitrat]

As far as I know, SP has a tolerance of 0.02 inches for edge to edge printing. This set kind of requires the prints to be aligned exactly, though. I would ask them to run a sample first before putting more time into it (set looks pretty defined already)

[MustacheRabbit]

I would be totally in for this set. I am a huge fan of Alien, and even if they end up in G20 profile I would instantly buy out a few sets.

I'd prefer DSA, but the aesthetic for the G20 caps would be so much nicer due to the larger print area.

[zslane]

As far as I know, SP has a tolerance of 0.02 inches for edge to edge printing. This set kind of requires the prints to be aligned exactly, though. I would ask them to run a sample first before putting more time into it (set looks pretty defined already)

Yes, I hear you, japanitrat. I would definitely want to go through a test run or two with SP before allowing it to go into production. They would want to do the same, I'm sure.

[zslane]

Also, I've scoured PMK's website twice now and I still haven't found a page for voting.  Is it something that's only visible when there are sets to vote for?

For some reason they don't seem to link to the voting site from the PMK site. Color me confused.

At any rate, here's a link to the voting site: http://redrokk.pixelprecisionnw.com/

You will need to create an account at the PMK site and use that to log in to the voting site.

[zslane]

Here is a slightly tweaked update to the full set render. I removed the \| key from the Extras kit, so it only appears in the Topstripe kit now. I also replaced the 1.5u \| key with a new graphic. The previous one remains in the ErgoDox kit, and is exclusive to it.

[jebbra]

Ortholinear mods will be lovely. Looking at your render I found the all-symbol planck is too cramped and didn't have place to "breath" like when this set placed on another board. Sure it give planck some special treatment if you look it from the other side, but as the original semiotic/EDS use ortholinear layout too, ortho board will become the closest homage.

[Tom_Kazansky]

they look great! 

Here is a slightly tweaked update to the full set render. I removed the \| key from the Extras kit, so it only appears in the Topstripe kit now. I also replaced the 1.5u \| key with a new graphic. The previous one remains in the ErgoDox kit, and is exclusive to it.

(Attachment Link)

there are two arrows cluster?

[Omnipotent]

Loving the renders. This is looking so awesome!

[zslane]

there are two arrows cluster?

No, that's just my dumb render setup. I need to fix it. Thank you for pointing it out!

[mll8394]

ooohhh all logos and novelties  Gotta love keysets like this    )

[zslane]

Okay, let's try this again.



And here are the keyboard templates again.

[derezzed]

Thanks for the link to the voting page.  I'm sad to see some of those legends consigned to 1.5u keys on the Ergodox kit, but I'm sure that Ergodox modifiers with legends, and exclusive legends at that, will make this even more attractive to Ergodox users.

[zslane]

I thought about putting the 1.5u and 2u keycaps from the ErgoDox kit into the Extras kit, but that would fill it with too many keys that folks with alternate layouts simply don't need, and would make that kit needlessly expensive. I figure completists who must have every key, just to have them, will put their collector's hat on and just buy the ErgoDox kit (and maybe give or sell off the few duplicate keys).

[derezzed]

I'm still going for as many kits as I can afford.    Seeing those vertical keys on the Ergodox kit made me realize that people can change the profile of their layout by flipping the keys.  With only a 3 degree slope, the difference might not be very noticeable but it will be interesting to try it out.  I'm thinking of flipping the alpha and mod keys 180 degrees and keeping the intended orientation on the number row.  Maybe I'll flip the pinky keys 90 degrees.

[ideus]

It is a shame there is no a proper mold for an ISO key in that profile, I may be in for a set of modifiers if it was available.

[zslane]

I think it would be great to see a G20 ISO Return. But SP never bothered to invest in an ISO Return key mold for DSA. It is hard to imagine what would motivate them to do so for G20.

[iFreilicht]

Ortholinear mods will be lovely. Looking at your render I found the all-symbol planck is too cramped and didn't have place to "breath" like when this set placed on another board. Sure it give planck some special treatment if you look it from the other side, but as the original semiotic/EDS use ortholinear layout too, ortho board will become the closest homage.

You could use the 1u mod keys from the Extras set and/or the F-keys from the Toprow set to get your modifiers.

[ideus]

I think it would be great to see a G20 ISO Return. But SP never bothered to invest in an ISO Return key mold for DSA. It is hard to imagine what would motivate them to do so for G20.

Right, it seems impossible, that is why I use Cherry and GMK sets.

[pixelpusher]

Was showing this set to a friend at work.  He's not a keyboard enthusiast, but he is an amazing artist and sci-fi fan.  I started explaining the concept behind the set and we read up on Ron Cobb and Semiotic Standard. Then we started talking about all of the work that must have gone into these older sets.  I plan to watch the original film again to get hyped some more.  I'll be proud to own something so brilliantly themed and well planned out.

These caps are going on a "Masterkeys Pro S" inside the space white CNC case from norbauer.  This is probably going to be the most amazing thing I've ever had! 

[zslane]

Thanks for the link to the voting page.

Forget about PMK's voting page and that whole system they tried to establish. It has been abandoned.

Unfortunately, that means there is currently no vehicle for running a group buy.

(I had reached out to another group buy organizer before I even posted here, but got no response, so I'm not optimistic about finding an interested GB agent.)

[zslane]

Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.

I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!

I want to thank everyone for helping out on this! 

[temporal]

that's great news! such a unique set, been dying to try out G20 too

[Niomosy]

It's a shame the PMK voting system has died out but at least the set of the month is something.  Glad to see this one's getting picked up for a run by SP.

[Vigrith]

Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.

I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!

I want to thank everyone for helping out on this! 

Congratulations, Zslane. I'm glad Melissa and the guys are willing to show G20 some love - what a fantastic and unique set to showcase the keycap profile's strengths. Could not be more apt in my opinion.

Looking forward to being able to order a set!

[derezzed]

Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.

I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!

Next Sunday, A.D.?

What an emotional roller coaster this thread has turned into.  Will we get to see a test run or is SP confident that their equipment can faithfully produce this set?

[zslane]

That is a good question derezzed.

SP is already aware of the set and what it looks like, so I sort of feel that if they weren't confident that their equipment could faithfully produce it, I don't think they would have proposed making it a Set of the Month. But, of course, we won't know for certain until we try some experiments. It will be an iterative process that will take a little time.

My biggest fear is being told that in order to be "safe" and avoid any chance of sublimating over the top edges, I will have to shrink the graphics to a size smaller than I am happy with. The EDSP graphics I'm not so worried about since they all have lots of open space around their printed elements. It is the Semiotic symbols that present the greatest potential for problems because they all have a red border which must be perfectly centered and not run over any top edge. Depending on the registration tolerances of their sublimation equipment, this could be a thorny issue.

[jebbra]

That's a very good news zslane! Congratulation! I quoted this from Melissa, "The print area on sublimation is essentially the entire top surface of the keycap. Please note that there is a 'margin of error' of 0.020 inches for all sublimated artwork (when printing).". Looks like all you need to worry is the 0.020 margin.

[Tom_Kazansky]

Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.

I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!

I want to thank everyone for helping out on this! 

awesome! 

That is a good question derezzed.

SP is already aware of the set and what it looks like, so I sort of feel that if they weren't confident that their equipment could faithfully produce it, I don't think they would have proposed making it a Set of the Month. But, of course, we won't know for certain until we try some experiments. It will be an iterative process that will take a little time.

My biggest fear is being told that in order to be "safe" and avoid any chance of sublimating over the top edges, I will have to shrink the graphics to a size smaller than I am happy with. The EDSP graphics I'm not so worried about since they all have lots of open space around their printed elements. It is the Semiotic symbols that present the greatest potential for problems because they all have a red border which must be perfectly centered and not run over any top edge. Depending on the registration tolerances of their sublimation equipment, this could be a thorny issue.

hope they will make some prototypes so we will know how the printing will turn out 

[zslane]

Yes, they will definitely be making prototypes for me to examine and approve.

[iFreilicht]

Those are great news, I'm sure you will be able to make it work and look awesome at the same time. I love how SP makes the turn-around on these unique sets so quick. Certainly raises the incentive of designers to try out new stuff like you did.

[ideus]

I just hope that the main alpha legends come with a fair quality considering how complex they are. It may be some market for a set with alphas that use the same type of legends that the number row has.

[zslane]

I just hope that the main alpha legends come with a fair quality considering how complex they are.

Agreed. I am optimistic because these graphics are all simple shapes and line work. Perfect for the dye-sublimation process. The only question is that of minimum supportable line thickness since some elements are pretty thin.

It may be some market for a set with alphas that use the same type of legends that the number row has.

There may be, but such a set would just be a conventional set of alphas in the Eurostile font, which I have no interest in (as a user or as a designer). If someone else wants to design such a set/kit, by all means they should. I would not object.

[ideus]

I just hope that the main alpha legends come with a fair quality considering how complex they are.

Agreed. I am optimistic because these graphics are all simple shapes and line work. Perfect for the dye-sublimation process. The only question is that of minimum supportable line thickness since some elements are pretty thin.

It may be some market for a set with alphas that use the same type of legends that the number row has.

There may be, but such a set would just be a conventional set of alphas in the Eurostile font, which I have no interest in (as a user or as a designer). If someone else wants to design such a set/kit, by all means they should. I would not object.

There is no need to design one; because, there are alphas available at PMK that can be paired with these mods, if they were available separately.

[zslane]

Okay, maybe I misunderstood you. You said "with the same type of legends that the number row has." The type(face) used on the Topstripe keys is Eurostile, and they have border graphics too. The stock G20 keycaps available from SP would have neither of these features, but maybe they would be an acceptable compromise for folks who only like the EDSP-based modifiers.

[FuriousGeorge]

Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.

I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!

Next Sunday, A.D.?

Why is there no Like button on this forum for me to hit? 

[ideus]

Okay, maybe I misunderstood you. You said "with the same type of legends that the number row has." The type(face) used on the Topstripe keys is Eurostile, and they have border graphics too. The stock G20 keycaps available from SP would have neither of these features, but maybe they would be an acceptable compromise for folks who only like the EDSP-based modifiers.

You understood it perfectly; however, the mods can be paired with other alphas in the same profile, it is not the same, of course.

[derezzed]

G20 blanks + Sharpie markers = problem solved   

[ideus]

G20 blanks + Sharpie markers = problem solved   

LOL, a new breed of artisan's key caps?

[zslane]

Here are the first keycap samples derived from the graphics I sent to SP.



I am exploring the feasibility of enlarging the symbols about 10%, but if doing so presents problems then what you see in that photo is what they will look like. I'm pleased to see that they look exactly as I envisioned them, pretty much right off the bat.

[Arallu]

Great news! They look excellent.

[ideus]

Far better than I thought, I just hope the large keys do not get warped as the Granites did.