AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]

[clickclack123]

Either trackpoint or trackball, I'm definitely still looking at making it happen. It may just end up being a stretch goal on the KS

Sorry, excuse my ignorance, but what's "the KS"?

[domesticbark]

Either trackpoint or trackball, I'm definitely still looking at making it happen. It may just end up being a stretch goal on the KS

Sorry, excuse my ignorance, but what's "the KS"?

https://www.kickstarter.com/

[DSlayerZX]

to be honest, I am not sure if a track ball is needed since chances are, the keyboard is going to out live it.

I am also not sure if it's necessary, can't we just designate one layer of the keyboard mapping and make it function as mouse up down left right per key?

[kfmfe04]

to be honest, I am not sure if a track ball is needed since chances are, the keyboard is going to out live it.

I am also not sure if it's necessary, can't we just designate one layer of the keyboard mapping and make it function as mouse up down left right per key?

I agree - I prefer to use the keyboard as much as possible - since this will be a programmable keyboard, that means I should be able to avoid touching a mouse/touchpad/trackball even more so than I am doing now.

If I really need such an input, I actually have plenty of spare USB mice and trackpads that I can use.  Having the option to pick that secondary input is nice.

Also, a keyboard with standard keys is highly preferable to a weird one with a nub (etc) which would require special keys, even if it's only one or two.

[prasopes]

Either trackpoint or trackball, I'm definitely still looking at making it happen. It may just end up being a stretch goal on the KS

That's great news! The problem I have with split ergonomic keyboards and mice is that these keyboards are always too wide to accommodate a mouse next to them. You end up either having an uncomfortable grip on the mouse as it's too far to the right or you have to move the keyboard to the left, decreasing typing comfort.
By the way, are there any patent issues with the trackpoint?

[tups]

I agree with DSlayerZX and kfmfe04, I prefer a smaller keyboard plus external mouse (though I usually place the mouse "below" the keyboard, i.e. towards me, so width isn't such an issue).

[nazarie]

Did you happen to see how the Cherry MX RGB switches actually work?  They are just clear enclosures with SMD RGB LEDs under.  Sounds like your designs for backlighting will work perfectly with those switches once they are generally available.

[fengor]

Wow, what an epic read. I just registered to say how awesome this is and that I am looking forward to the kickstarter

Sadly i think i am too late for the beta ain't i?

awesome kudos from germany

[clickclack123]

I think there's a lot of people who are eagerly awaiting this one! I know I am.

G'day mate from Australia.

[kraftman]

I think there's a good chance that this is tested, improved, and fully funded on KS before I receive my massdrop ergodox order from November

[FiskFisk33]

Any news acidfire? 

[AcidFire]

Really quick update, I've finally gotten all the newest revisions of the board designs done, and the files are going to the board house later today. The designs aren't perfect and will still need a couple of tweaks for the final version, however at this point I would consider them near production ready. While developing the boards, I saw an opportunity to eliminate a pair of the controllers as unnecessary, which helps to drop the retail price right now. Unfortunately I can't give a completely solid number for final retail for diy/completed kits until I hear from Cherry and talk to SP a bit more, but right now it's looking to be around an $80-100 kit (including the cases) for those of you who already have your switches & caps

There are also a couple of new developments with the designs that I'll be waiting (impatiently) to share, but I want to have the boards in hand and design done first.

[hoggy]

Wow!  That's a lot cheaper than I thought.  That cape must be getting some serious use.

[Demonmaker]

Cheers for the update..

looking forward to seeing the near final product

[FiskFisk33]

awesome!

[daerid]

F**kin aye!!! Way better than the ErgoDox price. Can't wait!

[JPG]

Hum, very nice price!

[AcidFire]

Sorry guys, I just want to make sure it's absolutely clear, the $80-100 estimation is a kit with no key caps or switches. Unfortunately the key caps & switches even in volume add roughly $120 to the price tag after mark up (and that's with making certain assumptions about the volume prices of the switches.) I'm going to be calling the reps from SP & Cherry directly to see what kind of volume I need to get the price a bit lower, but I'm determined to keep the base kits under $200 (225-250 preassembled.)

[JPG]

Sorry guys, I just want to make sure it's absolutely clear, the $80-100 estimation is a kit with no key caps or switches. Unfortunately the key caps & switches, even in volume add roughly $120 to the price tag after mark up (and that's with making certain assumptions about the volume prices of the switches.) I'm going to be calling the reps from SP & Cherry directly to see what kind of volume I need to get the price a bit lower, but I'm determined to keep the base kits under $200 (225-250 preassembled.)

I got you, but I have enough switches and enough keycaps, maybe not all the mods depending on final layout, but at worst I put a smaller cap or no cap at some places. Not perfect, but good enough for me. If I fall in love with the layout, then I will maybe look for a full keycap set! My main problem right now is my new love for the model F lol, but I really want to try an ergo keyboard anyway, so if I can get one for 100$ I will be super happy!

[AcidFire]

I realized last night it's been awhile since I've really shown anything new, so I thought I'd share a little teaser of whats coming:

(The silver disk the size of a quarter, for reference)

[utku]

I realized last night it's been awhile since I've really shown anything new, so I thought I'd share a little teaser of whats coming:

Show Image

(The silver disk the size of a quarter, for reference)

Show Image

there seems to be one too many chips on that board, might it be that this keyboard has bluetooth capability? if so, where should i throw my handful of cash?

[AcidFire]

there seems to be one too many chips on that board, might it be that this keyboard has bluetooth capability? if so, where should i throw my handful of cash?

What you see on that board is the processor, micro sd reader, peizo & vreg, as well as the supporting resistors/capacitors. However, the 6 pin header at the top of the board is for the bluetooth addon

[clickclack123]

I realized last night it's been awhile since I've really shown anything new, so I thought I'd share a little teaser of whats coming:

Show Image

(The silver disk the size of a quarter, for reference)

Show Image

Lovely looking board, but I thought the thumbswitches were supposed to be lower than the rest of the board, like on the grand piano?

I know you might be too far along to change it, but I'm wondering why you didn't give it a bit of a tilt inwards on each hand, like that nice 70% board you made? Here's a pic of something that I've been working on, I find that my hands are happiest at about this angle with my ergodox:

[AcidFire]

I realized last night it's been awhile since I've really shown anything new, so I thought I'd share a little teaser of whats coming:

Show Image

(The silver disk the size of a quarter, for reference)

Show Image

Lovely looking board, but I thought the thumbswitches were supposed to be lower than the rest of the board, like on the grand piano?

I know you might be too far along to change it, but I'm wondering why you didn't give it a bit of a tilt inwards on each hand, like that nice 70% board you made? Here's a pic of something that I've been working on, I find that my hands are happiest at about this angle with my ergodox:

(Attachment Link)

If you flip back through the thread, that layout is for the straight board design, which is meant to be smaller for travel. That's also four seperate PCBs:

[Thor]

I really wish you could make the keyboard detachable in the middle...now then it would truly be the perfect keyboard.

[AcidFire]

I really wish you could make the keyboard detachable in the middle...now then it would truly be the perfect keyboard.

Who's saying that's not an option?

[Thor]

Well I'm glad to hear that....because even if it's design is ergonomic by default being detachable in the middle would really offer the best I could ever imagine in terms of ergonomy....and I really like having my hands extending in an "outwards fashion"(I don't know if that makes any sense...English is not my native language) ..I don't like being constricted.

[yakitysax]

Did you scrap using either a trackpoint mouse or trackball in the keyboard? The trackpoint would be immensely valuable, especially if there was one on both sides of the keyboard. That would make available somewhere between 10-18 bindable keys (10 if just cardinal plus down button, 18 if diagonals also) keys per layer that are easily accessible. I would use those for things like window and app management that I like to access frequently and quickly but not waste a short chord on.

[AcidFire]

Well I'm glad to hear that....because even if it's design is ergonomic by default being detachable in the middle would really offer the best I could ever imagine in terms of ergonomy....and I really like having my hands extending in an "outwards fashion"(I don't know if that makes any sense...English is not my native language) ..I don't like being constricted.

I completely agree, and it's one of the reasons this project started in the first place. I'm currently working on a design that merges the split & ergonomic designs, with the ability to completely split them as well. Laser cut acrylic was going to make that a complete pain, but moving to injection molding I think will sort the issues I was having out.

Did you scrap using either a trackpoint mouse or trackball in the keyboard? The trackpoint would be immensely valuable, especially if there was one on both sides of the keyboard. That would make available somewhere between 10-18 bindable keys (10 if just cardinal plus down button, 18 if diagonals also) keys per layer that are easily accessible. I would use those for things like window and app management that I like to access frequently and quickly but not waste a short chord on.

Yes, but it's still low on the priority list currently. It's looking more and more like I'd have to go with a trackball, which will require some custom parts. Unfortunately, I'm still not solid enough with solidworks (ha!) to design that sort of thing, but I'm working with a mechanical engineer who is.

[daerid]

Sorry guys, I just want to make sure it's absolutely clear, the $80-100 estimation is a kit with no key caps or switches. Unfortunately the key caps & switches even in volume add roughly $120 to the price tag after mark up (and that's with making certain assumptions about the volume prices of the switches.) I'm going to be calling the reps from SP & Cherry directly to see what kind of volume I need to get the price a bit lower, but I'm determined to keep the base kits under $200 (225-250 preassembled.)

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Even if the price is comparable to the ErgoDox, I think the Nexus will be a much better value. Keep up the great work!

[John Venture]

Will there be any love for ISO users?

I love the ergo dox but what prevents me from buying it is that I wouldn't be able to install 2 keys where they should be, and the Nexus' layouts seems to go the same route

Do you think you could make 2 slots here to counter this?

[Kitesurfer]

+1 with John, thanks for noticing.
This is the first glitch for me, otherwise it's an awesome project !

[vatin]

I think the op should update the op post with all these development pictures and progress status instead of having them spread across thousands of post.

[kfmfe04]

I think the op should update the op post with all these development pictures and progress status instead of having them spread across thousands of post.

I like update-to-date news as any here, but I'm quite content that AcidFire spends his valuable time working on the project rather than deal with trivialities such as this.

If you don't want to read the entire thread, you can either check the last few pages or wait for his final announcement (or new thread) for the finished project.

[clickclack123]

I think the op should update the op post with all these development pictures and progress status instead of having them spread across thousands of post.

I like update-to-date news as any here, but I'm quite content that AcidFire spends his valuable time working on the project rather than deal with trivialities such as this.

If you don't want to read the entire thread, you can either check the last few pages or wait for his final announcement (or new thread) for the finished project.

Or be a stalker like me and go to http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=28423 to see all his posts.

[wasabah]

Or be a stalker like me and go to http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=28423 to see all his posts.

Haha I'm also constantly doing that!

[AcidFire]

Will there be any love for ISO users?

I love the ergo dox but what prevents me from buying it is that I wouldn't be able to install 2 keys where they should be, and the Nexus' layouts seems to go the same route

Do you think you could make 2 slots here to counter this?

Show Image

It's something I'll have to look into as I'm not totally familar with the ISO layout (or why the slots would be needed), but I wouldn't rule out the possibility either. Because it's a modular board (including the plate), doing a custom layout/change is always in the card, the only concern is ensuring it fits in the casing.

I think the op should update the op post with all these development pictures and progress status instead of having them spread across thousands of post.

I like update-to-date news as any here, but I'm quite content that AcidFire spends his valuable time working on the project rather than deal with trivialities such as this.

If you don't want to read the entire thread, you can either check the last few pages or wait for his final announcement (or new thread) for the finished project.

Or be a stalker like me and go to http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=28423 to see all his posts.

Funny enough, I do that too :P Right now I just don't have enough time to cull everything and bring it into the first post, but when I get back from Seattle I will definitely take the time to shift everything around into an easier to find format. I'll also be putting up a proper webpage detailing current progress/features etc. as well before I go, so that might be a better spot for that info.

[John Venture]

It's something I'll have to look into as I'm not totally familar with the ISO layout (or why the slots would be needed), but I wouldn't rule out the possibility either. Because it's a modular board (including the plate), doing a custom layout/change is always in the card, the only concern is ensuring it fits in the casing.

The main differences between the ISO norm (EU) and ANSI (US) are:
- number of keys (105 vs 104)
- smaller left shift (next to which the additional key is set)
- 'tetris' shaped return key

The shape and size of the return and shift keys don't matter here, but on an AZERTY (French) layout the additional key is '<' (and '>'), which is a pain to those HTML developers who want to use an ANSI keyboard. On a BEPO layout (the French Dvorak) it is 'ê', which can also be formed using a combination of keys (alt gr + 6 + e) but it defeats the purpose of having diacritical characters handy - which are very common in several European countries.

E.g: Not tonight honey, I have a headache : Pas ce soir chérie, j'ai mal à la tête.

P.S: not that French people often use that sentence

Sprit's designed a PCB which is compatible for both ISO and ANSI, if that can be of any help: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50580.0

Here's an ISO BEPO layout for reference:

[Dynamo]

The shape and size of the return and shift keys don't matter here, but on an AZERTY (French) layout the additional key is '<' (and '>'), which is a pain to those HTML developers who want to use an ANSI keyboard. On a BEPO layout (the French Dvorak) it is 'ê', which can also be formed using a combination of keys (alt gr + 6 + e) but it defeats the purpose of having diacritical characters handy - which are very common in several European countries.

E.g: Not tonight honey, I have a headache : Pas ce soir chérie, j'ai mal à la tête.

In the Swedish keyboard layout you also have åäö (ÅÄÖ) as separate keys, e.g. on the right side of the P and L keys using the qwerty-layout. So, as I´ve said earlier, the more keys the better.

Not tonight honey, I have a headache. : Inte ikväll älskling, jag har huvudvärk.

[eviltobz]

something to bear in mind with this sort of keyboard though is with the layer switching functionality that can be programmed in, and good use of some thumb keys to control them, you suddenly have a far greater number of distinct key presses available. I've still got keys on my ergodox (that i'm typing this with) that i've not got assigned to anything yet due to the usefulness of the layering system.

[tups]

Great work AcidFire. Definitely want one of those boards!

For anyone interested, I have some XKB (linux) configs for multi-layer layouts (ErgoDox and standard keyboards) here: https://github.com/dhardy/keyboard/blob/master/cyborg16

[oystein.krog]

Are you still accepting beta applications?
The website seems to be down...

[kfmfe04]

All I know is, once this board is done, I will definitely configure a hhkb-like layout and post it to AcidFire's site for others to use... 

I'm also looking forward to playing around with other possibilities like double-tap CTRL for caps-lock, etc - should be fun.

[yakitysax]

All I know is, once this board is done, I will definitely configure a hhkb-like layout and post it to AcidFire's site for others to use... 

I'm also looking forward to playing around with other possibilities like double-tap CTRL for caps-lock, etc - should be fun.

That sort of thing is already achievable with software like AutoHotkey, KeyRemap4Macbook, or xmodmap, xinit, and xcape, probably some others that I have forgotten. It's what I use to double up keys, which is fantastic, especially for large programs that have a lot of bindings.

[AcidFire]

All I know is, once this board is done, I will definitely configure a hhkb-like layout and post it to AcidFire's site for others to use... 

I'm also looking forward to playing around with other possibilities like double-tap CTRL for caps-lock, etc - should be fun.

That sort of thing is already achievable with software like AutoHotkey, KeyRemap4Macbook, or xmodmap, xinit, and xcape, probably some others that I have forgotten. It's what I use to double up keys, which is fantastic, especially for large programs that have a lot of bindings.

While this sort of thing is definitely managable with software, I'm happy that the board will support this sort of thing on board, especially since it will not only allow it to be layer specific but also not require software for those situations where you can't install something (gov/school/military etc.)

And I'm looking forward to what you come up with kfm, I know one of the guys helping with the programming will want to check out your hhkb (he loves his.)

[QuadGMoto]

I am definitely looking forward to a successful conclusion of this project. 

I also rely heavily on a numeric keypad. Will there be a matching, equally programmable keypad to go with it? Or is there an existing project that covers that base?

[AcidFire]

I am definitely looking forward to a successful conclusion of this project. 

I also rely heavily on a numeric keypad. Will there be a matching, equally programmable keypad to go with it? Or is there an existing project that covers that base?

There are a couple of options currently under development for this, one of which I'll be revealing hopefully in the next two weeks.

[tups]

While this sort of thing is definitely managable with software, I'm happy that the board will support this sort of thing on board, especially since it will not only allow it to be layer specific but also not require software for those situations where you can't install something (gov/school/military etc.)

Good idea, but I hate how limited this ends up (e.g. alternative bindings for things like @, *, (, { require simulating pressing shift — and they still won't work right for many people because a lot of non-US layouts move these characters around). May still be the best option for many people though.

I also rely heavily on a numeric keypad. Will there be a matching, equally programmable keypad to go with it? Or is there an existing project that covers that base?

I use the right side of my ErgoDox as a a numpad, and it works great (also means I can get F-keys on the Ergo). Have a look here (you'll need key binding software): https://github.com/dhardy/keyboard/blob/master/cyborg16#L50

[kfmfe04]

While this sort of thing is definitely managable with software, I'm happy that the board will support this sort of thing on board, especially since it will not only allow it to be layer specific but also not require software for those situations where you can't install something (gov/school/military etc.)

Good idea, but I hate how limited this ends up (e.g. alternative bindings for things like @, *, (, { require simulating pressing shift — and they still won't work right for many people because a lot of non-US layouts move these characters around). May still be the best option for many people though.

I also rely heavily on a numeric keypad. Will there be a matching, equally programmable keypad to go with it? Or is there an existing project that covers that base?

I use the right side of my ErgoDox as a a numpad, and it works great (also means I can get F-keys on the Ergo). Have a look here (you'll need key binding software): https://github.com/dhardy/keyboard/blob/master/cyborg16#L50

I think you are mis-interpreting AcidFire's solution.

IIUC, I believe AcidFire intends his boards to be programmable/firmware driven so I don't think your requirements are an issue.  You can look at the source code, configure the behavior that you prefer, compile, load the firmware onto the board, and use.  If you are not technical, you will be able to use the firmware revisions that other developers come up with. 

Firmware-driven solutions tend to be very low level (essentially at or right above the driver level) so you are rarely limited with weirdness that you may get with bindings in standard remapping software (none of this requiring a shift-key for * garbage).

AFAIK, you typically are only limited by the hardware/standards...

[tups]

AFAIK, you typically are only limited by the hardware/standards...

Which, as I understand it, is a problem: they way a keyboard communicates with a computer using the standard USB HID standard (or for that matter, PS/2) is to report the scan codes of the keys which have been pressed or released — so, for example, a keyboard can report that "shift" was pressed, "2" pressed, then "2" released (actually, the scan codes for "shift" and "2" not the key mapping) — but depending on keyboard layout shift+2 may mean " or may mean @ (or maybe something else).

Working higher up the chain with whatever software the OS uses to map scan codes to characters doesn't have this problem, and additionally allows characters not usually found on keyboards (€, —, →, ∋, α, ζ, ≥, ß, ... : a small sample of what is on my keyboard).