Author Topic: [Group Buy] Moogle Kit 2: Supplement Cherry Double Shots (Read 45977 times)

BiNiaRiS · « **Reply #100 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 01:44:59 »

Quote from: cycloverid;391434

1.) If I'm really going to be fronting the costs of these keys.... it's a huge financial risk even as it is. I was going to ask if there was a better way we could handle this.

2.) I don't have unlimited time to sort caps and orders.. This is less of an issue though, as there will likely be 10 caps per set.

3.) It would take 100+ orders to really see a huge cost savings. More orders = more headaches with the sorting.

For sure everyone prepays. Don't do it any other way. I'm partially unemployed and have a lot of time on my hands. If you wanted to ship these to me instead I would have plenty of time to sort them and get them in the mail.

cycloverid · « **Reply #101 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 01:56:33 »

Great, we have absolutely no problem then! I'll unlock the order list.

BiNiaRiS · « **Reply #102 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 02:27:17 »

Quote from: cycloverid;391458

Great, we have absolutely no problem then! I'll unlock the order list.

Awesome, sign me up for:

1x Black
1x White

Atenacius · « **Reply #103 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 08:37:58 »

Should we be expecting lower costs now that we're going for 100 orders?

The mock-up looks really good, hopefully the final product will come close

Laggy-gaga · « **Reply #104 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 09:21:48 »

Update
I would like to have:
2 sets of white
and 1 set of black

calavera · « **Reply #105 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 10:54:19 »

In that case I'm definitely in for:

2 x white/beige
1 x black

litster · « **Reply #106 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 11:09:27 »

@cycloverid, please add another set of black for me for a total of

(3)White
(3)Black

Thanks.

dux · « **Reply #107 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 12:05:32 »

I'll buy 2 black sets.

7bit · « **Reply #108 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 12:09:38 »

Quote from: cycloverid;391431

First draft (v1.1) images based on custom paths:

(Attachment Link) 23033[/ATTACH]

I'll have to do some image overlay tests to triple check the width of my paths and make sure the boldness is exact.

I'm going to see if I can use the original windows logo as seen here (with slightly widened bars running through the window shapes).

I hope everything can be done that I want here!

This looks like you want to go for SVGs to make sure the keys resemble Cherry keysa as close as possible.

If you want these included into Round 4, order IDs would be:

CHERRYBLACK
CHERRYWHITE
and
CHERRYDOLCH

cycloverid · « **Reply #109 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 12:31:55 »

Yeah, paths are Photoshop's scalable vector technology. So, those images are just filled selections at that resolution.

I'll ask what formats they need it in today as well as some manufacturing specifics.

I also need to order a few color samples. I really hope there is a color slightly closer than the GAW you guys used last time.

EDIT: Thanks for the help 7bit!

7bit · « **Reply #110 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 13:13:03 »

Quote from: cycloverid;391631

Yeah, paths are Photoshop's scalable vector technology. So, those images are just filled selections at that resolution.

I'll ask what formats they need it in today as well as some manufacturing specifics.

I also need to order a few color samples. I really hope there is a color slightly closer than the GAW you guys used last time.

EDIT: Thanks for the help 7bit!

They need them in SVG format. The text (no matter which color it will have on the key) should be black and the rest transparent.

ps: Greet Melissa from me!

litster · « **Reply #111 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 13:43:43 »

So are we combining this moogle kit group buy with round 4, or is this still a separate group buy?

BiNiaRiS · « **Reply #112 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 13:46:07 »

Quote from: litster;391684

So are we combining this moogle kit group buy with round 4, or is this still a separate group buy?

I hope not. I am not a fan of that 7 month wait time

Grond · « **Reply #113 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 14:26:59 »

Why must the SVGs be remade? Weren't the ones used for the first Moogle Kit good enough?

Atenacius · « **Reply #114 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 14:43:41 »

Quote from: ripster;391725

Looks off to me. What's up with Tab and Capslock having different fonts?
Show Image

Yeah the original moogle kit had really thin lineweights. It's noticeably off in comparison to the original Cherry font. Even if the font wasn't exactly the same, matching the thickness would make a huge difference.

cycloverid · « **Reply #115 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 15:16:54 »

Grond: You can see the first draft custom paths I made on the previous page here. Compare these to the ones used on the first Moogle kit - there is a world of difference.

If we reach something like 100 orders, the price increase will be very slight using custom legends (~$2)

7bit · « **Reply #116 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 15:19:59 »

Quote from: Grond;391721

Why must the SVGs be remade? Weren't the ones used for the first Moogle Kit good enough?

In Round 3 they used their standard font, no SVGs from our side.

The_Ed · « **Reply #117 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 16:58:35 »

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23119[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23120[/ATTACH]
The menu key is way off. This is the 99HK cherry menu key. The windows key is almost right. The tops and bottoms are supposed to be perfect half circles, not what looks to be check marks on yours. Other than that you have gotten the font perfectly.

Edit: first picture at full size has the menu key perfectly, and half the windows key better than the second.

Edit:
7bit: I'm just pointing out inaccuracies to the original cherry style. This moogle kit 2 is an original cherry style replica kit.

7bit · « **Reply #118 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 17:01:47 »

Quote from: The_Ed;391861

(Attachment Link) 23119[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 23120[/ATTACH]
The menu key is way off. This is the 99HK cherry menu key. The windows key is almost right. The tops and bottoms are supposed to be perfect half circles, not what looks to be check marks on yours. Other than that you have gotten the font perfectly.

The SP windows and Menu key are looking much better than the lasered Cherry keys. And I don't mean lasered vs. double shot!

cycloverid · « **Reply #119 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 17:11:27 »

Quote from: The_Ed;391861

(Attachment Link) 23119[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 23120[/ATTACH]
The menu key is way off. This is the 99HK cherry menu key. The windows key is almost right. The tops and bottoms are supposed to be perfect half circles, not what looks to be check marks on yours. Other than that you have gotten the font perfectly.

Edit: first picture at full size has the menu key perfectly, and half the windows key better than the second.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23124[/ATTACH]

(Interestingly, the shift keys are swapped. Every other Cherry key is on the left.)

The menu key is way off? I just removed the line on the top in fear that it wouldn't be produced properly due to the measurement constraints I saw on the wiki. It is perfectly accurate otherwise - minus some slight artifacting.

As far as the windows key goes, The curves are slightly different depending on which design we're talking about. I see that the curves are a little wonky, but perfect half-circles they are not. The higher res images you posted will help.

7bit likes the slanted look of the windows key, and I went with the vertical look of the lasered keys seen here. I will revisit this!

I do appreciate the criticisms, this has to be great.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #120 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 18:00:54 »

I vastly prefer the style on the Cherry vs the moogle Windows flag, like what you have done. You might want to post your mock up in the OP as it is easier to find there. I might be in the minority here, but I personally like the old style caps lock that has the padlock icon, which can be found on some older European models, along with textless shift.
Also I'd like to add
1x White

Atenacius · « **Reply #121 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 18:08:09 »

If it's going to be a supplement kit, maybe it should just stay true to the original Cherry keys. It's going to be difficult for everyone to agree on any changes.

EDIT: I guess it wouldn't be fair to just to go with whatever the standard full-sized US layout was. Anyway, I agree that as long as it's some version of the Cherry keys it should be okay. You can't argue too much with that.
But I would gladly trade my windows key for someones older Moogle key with the slanted logo, heh

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #122 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 18:12:08 »

Thats basically the point, but which style of original Cherry keys? There are at least 2 major versions with differing icons and with or without text. In any case I will be happy as long as they look like some version that was produced by Cherry, with the correct font / icons and alignments.

cycloverid · « **Reply #123 on:** Tue, 02 August 2011, 18:25:02 »

That was just the first draft. All I did was use the lasered logos in one photo I saw. It wasn't necessarily the best choice and it's still a DRAFT!

I'll mock one up of the slanted logo next so we can compare.

Please don't feel like my little doodles are the final say. Speak your mind and we'll come to a consensus.

I have to wait until I get home to do this stuff though, so be patient too!

cycloverid · « **Reply #124 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 00:58:19 »

Here's draft 2:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23169[/ATTACH]

The windows and menu graphics have been greatly cleaned up. I followed Ed's graphics much more closely. I love the way those ones look, thanks for putting those up.

The menu graphic will more than likely not have the top, central bar on it. Shall we go with the SP version instead? Or just take it out?

The key sample colors will be in the mail tomorrow. I have to reiterate that there is a chance there won't be a better match than the Moogle 1 kit.

cycloverid · « **Reply #125 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 01:05:31 »

I'll draft one up.

Yeah, I think I'll adjust the kerning just a bit to account for that.

Thanks for the input.

EDIT: You have to appreciate those chunky Cherry lines though compared to SP's!

agor · « **Reply #126 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 02:48:01 »

How much would shipping to Germany be?
It it's not too much, im in for

(1)WHITE: black legends on beige/grey with white space bar

Atenacius · « **Reply #127 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 08:38:23 »

I notice that you're rounding all of the edges based upon the finished result. Is it possible that the vectors that Cherry or SP uses have sharper edges and the roundness of the edges are just a result of the molding process? I just wonder if that might mean that the font will come out even softer and rounder than we intended

EDIT: I agree with the comment below

h0ngE · « **Reply #128 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 10:36:31 »

If the caps lock key isn't stepped I would prefer:

Caps Lock

...in one line instead of:

Caps
Lock

like here:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23193[/ATTACH]
[http://keyboardporn.com]

... otherwise draft 2 is very nice, cycloverid!

The_Ed · « **Reply #129 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 14:10:00 »

Draft 2 is PERFECT! It has Ed's "Anal Retentive" seal of approval! As to caps lock being 1 or 2 lines - I personally prefer 2 lines left justified like original cherry, but I'm fine with 1 line too.

7bit · « **Reply #130 on:** Wed, 03 August 2011, 14:17:13 »

Quote from: Atenacius;391900

If it's going to be a supplement kit, maybe it should just stay true to the original Cherry keys. It's going to be difficult for everyone to agree on any changes.

EDIT: I guess it wouldn't be fair to just to go with whatever the standard full-sized US layout was. Anyway, I agree that as long as it's some version of the Cherry keys it should be okay. You can't argue too much with that.
But I would gladly trade my windows key for someones older Moogle key with the slanted logo, heh

Doing a new Windows and Menu key costs more than sticking with the much better lookinbg SP ones.

But, becuase I'm not interested in this kit anyway:
If you want to blow your money on these, go ahead!

Quote from: The_Ed;392382

Draft 2 is PERFECT! It has Ed's "Anal Retentive" seal of approval! As to caps lock being 1 or 2 lines - I personally prefer 2 lines left justified like original cherry, but I'm fine with 1 line too.

On a full-touch key it should be one line. The 2 lines are just becuase a 1.25 units field for the text is too small to fit Caps Lock on it.

ps: To give you more ideas about how a Caps Lock key might look like:

(push the Groß button!)

cycloverid · « **Reply #131 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 01:03:32 »

For your enjoyment. A couple tests:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23261[/ATTACH]

Agor: Unfortunately, I can't say what the shipping costs will be to Germany as of this time.

Atenacious: I would hope that things are as accurate as possible in the molding process so that it resembles the original design as closely as possible. What a silly bunch of guesswork that would be otherwise.

7bit: It's possible that if these designs somehow cost a fortunate that I'd be willing to go with the SP windows and menu designs. Otherwise, I personally prefer the Cherry designs. At this point it's totally subjective though.

I kinda like B and D personally.

calavera · « **Reply #132 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 01:06:41 »

I personally like A but since there's a chance SP will find a way to mess it up somehow so the arrow doesn't match the shift one on the bottom, C is the most safe choice I think.

hashbaz · « **Reply #133 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 01:08:38 »

I love your work on the font cycloverid. I really hope we can go with your custom designs rather than the standard SP font, as they are a much closer match. As for the Windows and menu keys, I don't really care one way or the other (although your Windows does look really good).

I'd prefer a symbol on caps lock, but I have no strong preference between A and B.

agor · « **Reply #134 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 01:09:59 »

Quote from: cycloverid;392708

I kinda like B and D personally.

I'll second this.
But I also have no problems with SP windows/menu keys.

cycloverid · « **Reply #135 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 01:14:10 »

I'll have to see what it looks like on the actual key itself as well. The caps lock with symbols next to the text might just be crowded. But, it could also look fantastic.

EDIT: Maybe when the designs are finalized, we can run a poll with votes or something?

rightbraingeek · « **Reply #136 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 06:05:05 »

Quote from: cycloverid;392708

For your enjoyment. A couple tests:

(Attachment Link) 23261[/ATTACH]

I kinda like B and D personally.

B & D here as well. Nicely done.

And I second h0ngE on the CapsLock.

rightbraingeek · « **Reply #137 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 07:17:21 »

Quote from: cycloverid;389517

(possibly - space saver layouts like G80-1800's didn't have a long numpad 0 or + : seems to fit the criteria of this kit)
1X Numpad 0
1X Long +

---KEEP THE ORDERS COMING---

How about adding single key purchase options for all but especially (A)CapsLock(non-stepped) and (B)Right Shift? Seems these two are most often "off" when trying to match a recycled Cherry doubleshot keyboard. I have 3 sets now I'm trying to match in black w/the one missing R-Shift and both missing non-stepped CapsLock.

Atenacius · « **Reply #138 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 08:34:07 »

Yeah there should be a poll to keep it fair I guess. Even though it seems like my favorite; C, isn't going to be popular

cycloverid · « **Reply #139 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 00:23:21 »

Well, my worries became a reality. I don't even think we need a vote, the other caps lock designs are out by technicality. There just isn't sufficient room on the key, no point over-thinking it.

Mock-up on keys:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23334[/ATTACH]
CHERRY LEFT - MOOGLE 2 RIGHT

Simplicity is king. I blame Atenacious for dooming these designs!!

The last factor now is key color. Melissa sent the samples yesterday, so I'll get them hopefully early next week.

Once I get the samples, I'll set a hard last-chance-to-buy date. Then we can sit back and wait for our keyboards to finally be complete!

EDIT: The shift looks a little skinny doesn't it? In fact, many letters look a hair thin.

jat4 · « **Reply #140 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 00:27:49 »

If it's still possible to join in,

(1) BLACK

please!

dux · « **Reply #141 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 04:39:31 »

Have ever been considered making Enter and Backspace keys? All original Cherry long keys can have problems with wire stabilizers (bottoming out not possible).

the_buff · « **Reply #142 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 13:32:22 »

Did this make it into Group Buy 4?

If not then I'm interested in:
(3) sets of BLACK

cycloverid · « **Reply #143 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 13:53:31 »

One of the reasons I started this thread was to avoid waiting a year for some keys!

I'd assume everyone else is cool with that.

dux: The only problem I ran into with the long keys is that the stems were a little looser than the Filco's. What kind of board are you using?

StinkyTofu · « **Reply #144 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 15:13:19 »

(1)white
(1)black

dux · « **Reply #145 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 16:33:46 »

Quote from: cycloverid;393642

The only problem I ran into with the long keys is that the stems were a little looser than the Filco's. What kind of board are you using?

I have the plu ml87 at the moment. The stabilizer wires are rather thick and long, so the low profile + thick wall of the Cherries make stabilizers hit the wall of the key before the key gets to the bottom. But my Cherry keys are lasered, in a few days I'll get my first Cherry DS so I'll be able to say exactly.

calavera · « **Reply #146 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 21:37:52 »

Wondering if people would be interested in a short right shift for the noppoo choco mini keyboards. They're especially hard to get in beige/white.

cycloverid · « **Reply #147 on:** Fri, 05 August 2011, 23:31:10 »

Hell, I have a short shift you can have if we figure out a cheap way to send it. Or, if I handle the order distribution (which I hope I don't have to!).

Supergleep · « **Reply #148 on:** Sat, 06 August 2011, 01:02:43 »

Quote from: cycloverid;393642

The only problem I ran into with the long keys is that the stems were a little looser than the Filco's. What kind of board are you using?

Easy fix for loose stabilizer stems:

1) Find a sacrificial plastic bag [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23403[/ATTACH]
2) Cut of a strip wide enough to cover the width of a key stem [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23404[/ATTACH]
3) Cut the strip lengthwise about 1cm long and cover the key stem '+' hole with it [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23405[/ATTACH] (sorry for blurry pic)
4) Push the plastic into the key stem with the stabilizer stem. The plastic tightens up the loose stabilizer. [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23406[/ATTACH]
5) Voila! No more loose stabilizer, and it's easily reversible with no permanent goop in your doubleshot SP keys!

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23407[/ATTACH]

The_Ed · « **Reply #149 on:** Sat, 06 August 2011, 18:46:24 »

I like the menu key design in v2 the most, and v1 is okay, but the new v3 is the worst. The key is supposed to look like a menu of 4 items with the second one highlighted by the cursor arrow. v3 has a white bar over a menu of 3 items with the first one highlighted by the cursor arrow. Go with the v2 menu key, or v1 if SP says the v2 is too detailed to form right. Other than that the rest of "moogle kit 2" looks perfect to original cherry. And yes, I do drive people insane with my perfectionist ways.

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Author Topic: [Group Buy] Moogle Kit 2: Supplement Cherry Double Shots (Read 45977 times)