A sad day in Filco Ninja Land

[morethanless]

I can hear 16khz and maybe 17khz ( but I'm not sure If I hear the 17khz) so maybe 16.5khz is my max. hearing.
Used AKG K530LTD for hearing test.

So which frequenceny has c# or c or which one so guys said, the ping is? 2khz?

[sordna]

2khz ? No, it's in a lower octave. Based on my observation the notes other people posted, it ranges between 450-550Hz.
I can hear the 18khz by the way. It's probably because I don't have a music player blasting my ears. I think lots of younger people have bad hearing because of this.

[morethanless]

I don't use mp3 players often.
And have the best hearing in my family.
And I'm still young but mature.

I gues my headphones limit. (AKG K530LTD) but tomorrow I may retry with my speakers (Nubert 311)

Fact is, there is a metallic noise and some are bothered by it.
But I personally can't tell if that is "normal" for mechanical keyboards.

[redpill]

Was at Lowe's today anyway so picked up some expansion foam.  Monday could get interesting.

[penpoints]

Ranks up there with Welly in "My Filco Keycaps Are Getting Shiny".

This is completely different. As you have pointed out, the shine on keycaps is just wabi-sabi.

But an annoying, sustained metallic ringing is a defect. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? And why is the buyer supposed to fix defects on a brand-new keyboard? If some people want to fix theirs, that's great - but why are you making such a big deal about the simple return of defective merchandise?

[redpill]

This is completely different. As you have pointed out, the shine on keycaps is just wabi-sabi.

But an annoying, sustained metallic ringing is a defect. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? And why is the buyer supposed to fix defects on a brand-new keyboard? If some people want to fix theirs, that's great - but why are you making such a big deal about the simple return of defective merchandise?

That's the way some people act about products they like.  In ripster's case, he's been a strong Filco advocate for months/years.  Any defect with one of them he takes as a personal assault.  Given the signature, touch-in-cheekiness aside, it's clear he has a high opinion of his own reputation.  Thus he's not going let some random forum person tarnish the reputation of his personally recommended brand.

Ironically has no problem trashing the **** out of many non-Filco brands that other people like. My advice is to not take the act too seriously.

[penpoints]

That's the way some people act about products they like.  In ripster's case, he's been a strong Filco advocate for months/years.  Any defect with one of them he takes as a personal assault.  [...]

Thanks. I like Filco keyboards a lot, and I shouldn't have said or implied that there's a general problem with the 2nd-gen. Filco's metallic ringing. I only know for sure about two of them. (It's hard to hear it in the audio clips.) It could be a rare problem. And maybe some people wouldn't call it a serious defect, but for me it is.

[daerid]

ripster tends to post a lot. And people who are outspoken tend to attract a lot of negative attention and scrutiny.

I for one welcome our new mechanical keyboard overlords.

[daerid]

In all honesty, redpills video sounds a little like my Das Keyboard w/ Blues. Maybe it has something to do with switch type *shrug*

[daerid]

Doesn't bother me, I was just sayin...

[The Solutor]

Indeed

Other than wearable legends, twisted stems, pingy switches and squeaking spacebsars, filcos are notoriously defect free... :pound:

[The Solutor]

All of these are in your head.

And in any search engine.

I'm starting to believe Noodle's assertion that you are a Xarmor rep in disguise.

Yes most companies are used to have Italian reps for products sold just in the US. :pound:

I think will be hard for you to produce a sentence more stupid than the quoted one, but I'm sure you will manage to find one, sooner or later.

[fds]

I finally got around to making a video of the leo vs the ninja:

[video=youtube;0dqJrjshcyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dqJrjshcyg[/video]

The ping/bing/ RING / whatever on the filco should be obvious at the end when I'm pressing single keys.

[The Solutor]

I finally got around to making a video of the leo vs the ninja:

Finally a good example of a pinging filco

[fds]

And that's with you typing pretty hard.

Yeah, I was trying to emphasize the ringing sound. As I said before, you don't notice it if you type softer and try not to bottom out.

[The Solutor]

Yours is obviously fake.

Obviously.

I'm used to waste my time in audio editing just to fool a 3 years old child from S. Francisco...

[morethanless]

The Leopold rings, too.
But not as hard as the Filco.

[redpill]

In fact with thousands of shipping Filcos most people learn to live with it.

Right, because you should have to "learn to live with" a product you just spent $150 on.  Stop shilling so hard before you strain something.

[gl0ry]

I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it?  I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.

[redpill]

I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it?  I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.

Two separate issues.  Typical spring ping is not what is being described.  What is being described is when the entire metal plate on the Filco rings like a tuning fork.

[gl0ry]

Well, if that's the case.  Does it happen on all of the ninja's?  I was actually going to order one in a few moments.

[fds]

The Leopold rings, too.
But not as hard as the Filco.

yup, it's just more pronounced on the ninja
 

I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it?  I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.

Yeah, when typing softly I hardly ever notice it. I suppose the people who will be most bothered by it are the ones who type harder.

[SVC]

I don't really feel like reading through the whole thread, but I have a very similar pinging sound on my filco tenkeyless with mx-browns. While it doesn't really bother me, there is a noticeable ringing that will last for about 2 to 3 seconds when bottoming out and a short and much more quiet noise when not bottoming out, which would then come from the switch springing back into position. It has the same tuning fork like sound to it and makes the whole case vibrate slightly (when holding it up with one hand, while typing with the other).

I think it's the same sound described here in the thread (and the videos). Then again also having a G80-3000 with blue switches around, I don't see a reason to complain, as the ringing is about three times as loud on that keyboard. Seeing how the browns don't ring on the Leopold earlier in the thread, I'm really curious to know why it rings on the filco or the cherry board. Then again it's a good way to force me to not bottom out when typing, so I guess that's one positive thing about it.

[penpoints]

Nah, just trying to dispel the OP's assertion that this is a Filco Ninja manufacturing defect of some kind.

I've identified four different states of Filco ringing/pinging:

1. No ping, just a dead click. (Sure, if you held it up to your ear you might hear a faint ping, but most people don't type that way.)

2. A very slight ping, quickly deadened. (1st-gen blues/browns.)

3. A more noticeable ping, quickly deadened. (1st-gen blacks.)

4. A loud, sustained RINGING, resounding through the metal plate. (2nd-gen browns, Ninja.)

Ripster, you don't have to keep repeating yourself and getting your knickers all twisted up. The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that many of the Filco Ninja keyboards have this problem - or there would've been lots more complaints by now. I probably just had some bad luck (x2).

BTW, I really can't hear much ringing in any of the samples posted so far. It's hard to record, I guess.

[gl0ry]

I can definitely hear the ringing in fds's video.

[penpoints]

Mah knickahs ah twisted.

Sound samples or it didn't happen.

But when you hear the recordings you insist that they're fake! How infantile can you get? (Don't answer that.) :music:

[keyboardlover]

I tried blues on my g80 before, and definitely did not hear the ringing issue as with the Filco with browns. I have not heard it with any other switch or keyboard.

[canon.tk]

I've identified four different states of Filco ringing/pinging:

4. A loud, sustained RINGING, resounding through the metal plate. (2nd-gen browns, Ninja.)

Like I'v said before, one of the first gen majestouch browns I've used did the ringing just like you're saying only 2nd gen keyboards do.

[The Solutor]

I think you are twanging a open switch with a paper clip.

Got a video camera?

 
Call me liar and then apologizing one time should be enough for you, isn't it?

[The Solutor]

Two separate issues.  Typical spring ping is not what is being described.  What is being described is when the entire metal plate on the Filco rings like a tuning fork.

 
I think is a good explanation, my pinging switch was alone and previously I had two of them on my Xarmor, this can be explained by the tolerances on the switch building process and on unevenness on the soldering process.

Instead looks like Filcos are affected on almost every switches and this can't be explained by cherry's tolerances, but just by the materials used and the soldering process.

[The Solutor]

I find your logic extremely odd.

 
This makes my logic even more solid.

Please don't agree with me or I will start to doubt about myself.

[redpill]

Another happy customer at OCN!

Per the quote, if all he hears is "click click click" then it goes against your suggestion that this is a common occurrence that someone "needs to get over."  On the keyboard I have, there is absolutely no way you can not hear it.  Whether it bothers you or not I guess is up to personal preference, but it is unmistakably present.  It is an actual issue that may not be common and is definitely not normal.

I think I'm busting out the foam today.  Arrange a lego prayer session please.

Meanwhile this thread is awesome FUD.

The irony...

[The Solutor]

At least this finally explains why you call the buttons "keys", they are musical instruments

[redpill]

It would be more interesting if they generated different tones.  I'm getting tired of B♭

[The Solutor]

It would be more interesting if they generated different tones.  I'm getting tired of B♭

 
And could be misleading for the C# programmers...

[redpill]

FUD when people on other keyboard forums start worrying about something that is not a manufacturing defect.

How is it not a manufacturing defect?  You wishing it isn't doesn't make it so.

[redpill]

Denial.  You're the one emotionally invested here.

[woody]

Soap.

[The Solutor]

Speaking about illusionist, did you see this ?

[video=youtube;jvXqXcVF5S8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXqXcVF5S8&feature=player_profilepage[/video]
Likely the first smart thing seen about an iphone

[woody]

I'm starting to see double. Damn liquor.

Speaking of movies, don't watch "The Tree of Life". Except if you like RealForce.

[woody]

Newsflash - my HHKB pings/rings if I release a key in a snap. Thereby, I promote the Topre as mechanical keyboards.

[woody]

I am Sirius. But don't have mikes, let alone good ones. So only private ringing/pinging/dinging parties are possible, and I've got some liquids that amplify the sensory effects.

I ping, therefore I am mecha. (or Mecca)

[nolo]

Here is  a sound sample of a really annoying ping, ring, ding, ....
[video=youtube;wrLwsz-Ej6I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrLwsz-Ej6I[/video]

[woody]

HHKB lacks metal plate, so the ring/ping/ding is kinda uninspiring and atonal.

[The Solutor]

It's not bad on a RealForce.

Once again, inaudible UNLESS you do that push and snap release technique in Redpills video

 

Which is exactly what I did with my samples

[redpill]

Once again, inaudible UNLESS you do that push and snap release technique in Redpills video (the best so far).

Totally wrong.  It's very audible the entire time, which is why I noticed it to begin with (you can't avoid noticing it, it's there).  I used the snap and release technique for demonstration purposes because all I had was an iPhone mic.

[SVC]

I would say there definitely is a ringing sound and while it may not be a defect, it is there and can be quite annoying. I'm wondering a little more about what would be causing the sound, as it is there on the filco keyboard, but not (or not to the same extend) on the Leopold shown earlier around here. I would guess that it' the metal plate swinging but that would not explain, why I am hearing the same thing on a G80 which does not have a plate. I think I will have a closer look tomorrow. If it's actually the metal plate, would dampening it maybe help?

The sound has by now become quite annoying, as I seem to notice it more since I know about it. I probably really shouldn't hang around here. It does not make you a happier person...

[Findecanor]

I am appalled to see that we, as a community here on Geekhack has not come closer to consensus to this issue.

To sum up:
* It does not happen on all Filco keyboards. Only some
* This is not about Filco, specifically. The phenomenon has been observed on other keyboards with Cherry MX switches. It is only that Filco is a modern (not vintage) keyboard model that is relatively common on this board.
* It happens each time you press a key, during normal typing.
* A type of ringing could also be heard from a non-pinging keyboard if you press it and release it quickly.
* The plate could amplify the pinging sound, but several members have keyboards without a plate where you can also hear it during normal typing.
* A few members have both keyboards that ping and keyboards that don't ping. One member even has a keyboard where one single switch pings and the others don't.
* Several sound samples have been posted in this thread. The best ones are on page four, because you can compare one pinging keyboard with one that doesn't.

My theory is still that some batches of Cherry MX switches were made with different springs than others, and that these springs are the cause of the ping. That would explain why only some keyboards ping.

[keyboardlover]

Denial.  You're the one financially invested here.

Fixed that for you.

[daerid]

I've been noticing it a bit more on my Browns as well at work during fast and furious coding sessions. However, my black and red boards do not exhibit any ringing whatsoever. And on the brown board it's very slight.

I guess I just don't know what's so polarizing about this issue.