60% boards - what's the attraction?

[Matias]

Okay, just want to let everybody know that we're going ahead with this.   

It will be done as a Group Buy, with some different colour options for case and/or keycaps.  Let me know what you guys want on that front.

Time permitting, we'll start work on the case design next month, and will likely post the Interest Check in mid- to late January.

Wait wait, 60% Alps right Matias??

Yes, absolutely 60% ALPS.  :-)

[CPTBadAss]

Matias I love you <3

Please look one post above to see other reactions

[SpAmRaY]

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font!

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS

[Matias]

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font!

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS

(Attachment Link)

Hahaha, somebody needs to do a keycap GB based on that sweater...

[Air tree]

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font!

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS

[AKmalamute]

I have to be honest here, I don't notice font. Oh, caps/lowercase, and center vs. upper left (I prefer centered, lower case unless multiple layers are printed on the keys. But the best way to do that is side-printing for layer 1. Layer 0 should still be centered IMHO)

I gather that makes me a bit of an odd man out in this crowd, but there you have it.

Oh, and have a happy gif.

[SpAmRaY]

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font!

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS

(Attachment Link)

Hahaha, somebody needs to do a keycap GB based on that sweater...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50968.0

[Matias]

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font!

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS

(Attachment Link)

Hahaha, somebody needs to do a keycap GB based on that sweater...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50968.0

Will keep this handy for next year...  :-)

[Belfong]

Actually, we do have the font artwork for that layout.  We used to use it.  I always liked it, but when Apple moved on from it, we were forced to as well.  Might be interesting to have it available again. 

Matias, it would be awesome if you can use this font, have a white colour keyboard and key caps (And PBT key caps). Then I think you have a winner. KBT Poker is just releasing a white Poker 2 and from what I read in GH and other forums, a lot of people are looking forward to an all white Poker 2. Of course, being white is also in line with what Apple is doing at this moment - perhaps you can have two choices - grey case white key caps (for Apple compatibility) and white case white key caps.

[Matias]

Okay, so far we have 2 font options for Mac...  the old-school italicized Univers 57 Condensed Oblique, and VAG Rounded (which their current keyboards use).

Any font preferences for PC?

[Belfong]

Are you asking for this first group buy or for mass market later? I think for group buy, I would suggest a poll later which would give more insights. I personally prefer the old-school italicised Univers for both Mac and PC. For PC folks, there are just too many 'common' fonts for the PC consumers - Helvetica is the most common. Looking at all the variety keyboards out there and the keycaps group buys that are happening now, an italicised one would be most refreshing.

But having said that, there are many other vendors who had some radical fonts and was criticised. I do not know if people would treat the italicised font as radical.

[Matias]

Are you asking for this first group buy or for mass market later? I think for group buy, I would suggest a poll later which would give more insights. I personally prefer the old-school italicised Univers for both Mac and PC. For PC folks, there are just too many 'common' fonts for the PC consumers - Helvetica is the most common. Looking at all the variety keyboards out there and the keycaps group buys that are happening now, an italicised one would be most refreshing.

For now, I'm only concerned with the group buy. 

The mass market version will probably use VAG Rounded, but we can decide that later.

[Oobly]

For classic colours I really like the old Apple italicised font. It's the font that was on the first real computer I used (Apple IIc) and while I didn't like the keys on that keyboard, I really liked the font.

An all-white board with that font in black would rock, IMHO!

I'm also a fan of the Dolch scheme and a few more radical ones, like black and orange. Basically anything but beige or unicorn vomit (busy mix of bright colours). I like nostalgia and retro as much as the next person, but I still can't do beige. Closest I could get would be C64 colours (I actually really like the DSA retro set). Why PC manufacturers chose to make so much stuff in beige is beyond me.

I would also love a "Guinness" board. Dark brown case and unmarked cream caps. I also like the Portal 2 retro Aperture Labs colours. All warm and... brown. Homely and inviting somehow.

I think you'll have a hard time finding a couple of colour schemes that everyone will like unless they're "classic", like all-white, all-black, Dolch, etc.

Double shot PBT caps would be icing on the cake if you could arrange it!

[Matias]

For classic colours I really like the old Apple italicised font. It's the font that was on the first real computer I used (Apple IIc) and while I didn't like the keys on that keyboard, I really liked the font.

An all-white board with that font in black would rock, IMHO!

Yup, that's gonna happen. 

I think you'll have a hard time finding a couple of colour schemes that everyone will like unless they're "classic", like all-white, all-black, Dolch, etc.

Yes, I agree.

I would also love a "Guinness" board. Dark brown case and unmarked cream caps. I also like the Portal 2 retro Aperture Labs colours. All warm and... brown. Homely and inviting somehow.

Hmm...

[Belfong]

If for group buy - I vote for white key caps, white case and the old-school italicised Univers black font!
Alps key switches with an Apple inspired colour and font. How inspiring! THE BEST!!!!

[Britney Spears]

Will there be an ISO version? I'm well aware that ISO boards are a niche in this market, but a 60% board with ALPS with an ISO layout for Macs would be something I would buy for sure.

[Matias]

Will there be an ISO version? I'm well aware that ISO boards are a niche in this market, but a 60% board with ALPS with an ISO layout for Macs would be something I would buy for sure.

Yes, we'll do ISO for the group buy.

But a mass market ISO model will depend on our EU distributor, The Keyboard Company.

[Air tree]

I have never tried an Matias keyboard, Or any alps keyboard for that matter. (Matias uses a their version of alps right?)


So when this comes by i might have to buy one 

[Belfong]

At one time, I bought this Apple keyboard thinking it was mechanical:


It's not mechanical and it's one of the worst keyboards I have ever used.

The worst thing is that the key caps is made of this material that stained and it became black and gross very very fast.

Please don't use this key caps! White is not attractive if it stained easily.

But: it's beautiful. The whiteness and the font type!

[Air tree]

At one time, I bought this Apple keyboard thinking it was mechanical:

Show Image

It's not mechanical and it's one of the worst keyboards I have ever used.

The worst thing is that the key caps is made of this material that stained and it became black and gross very very fast.

Please don't use this key caps! White is not attractive if it stained easily.

But: it's beautiful. The whiteness and the font type!

All that dirt....

[Belfong]

Tell me about it. And I can't clean them off. Maybe I don't know the chemical I should use. I still have this keyboard. It's a reminder of a great design but lousy materials and key switch. I think it is rubber domes.

[BlueBär]

Fluoroantimonic acid should do the trick.

[Belfong]

Thanks BlueBar, I'll go to the DIY shop and ask for it!

Edit: White Poker 2 is the rage in GH
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50932

[BlueBär]

Hint: you might get a strange look from them.

On a serious note, did you try dental tabs? They usually work quite well.

[Belfong]

I have not heard that dental tabs could do the magic until after I joined GH. So perhaps I'll start with that first coz over here, the retailer only knows the brand of the product not the chemical name.

[Wilkie]

@Matias, will there be a quiet switch version?  There aren't many stock quiet 60% keyboards.  I'm personally only interested in a quiet version, but appreciate your doing this for the community, regardless.

[tufty]

Okay, so far we have 2 font options for Mac...  the old-school italicized Univers 57 Condensed Oblique, and VAG Rounded (which their current keyboards use).

No love for Motter Tektura?

My guess is that most PC owners will want Comic Sans

<ducks, runs away>

[Oobly]

Okay, so far we have 2 font options for Mac...  the old-school italicized Univers 57 Condensed Oblique, and VAG Rounded (which their current keyboards use).

No love for Motter Tektura?

My guess is that most PC owners will want Comic Sans

<ducks, runs away>

Or Wingdings... 

[Matias]

@Matias, will there be a quiet switch version?  There aren't many stock quiet 60% keyboards.  I'm personally only interested in a quiet version, but appreciate your doing this for the community, regardless.

Yes, quiet version for sure.  It's our most popular switch.

No love for Motter Tektura?

Maybe we can use it on the keyboard label underneath.

My guess is that most PC owners will want Comic Sans

<ducks, runs away>

Children, children, please behave...  :-)

[Wilkie]

Yes, quiet version for sure.  It's our most popular switch.

Fantastic!

[BearManJim]

I've been looking for a noisier/tactile second board to compliment my Cherry reds for over a year now.

I did ALMOST convince myself to buy a white HHKB Pro 2 for Christmas. Then when the much cheaper all white Poker II showed up, uncertainty set in...

Not anymore!!! Can I really have my cake and eat it? An all white 60% Alps board with the clean old school italic Apple font (for PC) in the UK ISO layout? I might have to buy two?! One clicky and one quiet!

Whilst I'm predominately a PC/Linux user, I did own a Classic II back in the day and continue to appreciate Mac styling.

Now where do I sign?!

[Belfong]

Thinking out loud here. One of the reasons the FC660C is popular is the inclusion of the arrow keys. While HHKB and Poker 2 are popular, they may not be so acceptable mainstream.

How can we include the arrow keys? HHKB and Poker put the arrow keys as a function layer. Would it make sense to turn it the other way around because I think arrow keys are used a lot more often than some other keys on the board. Looking at the board now, the diamond cluster of +  [  ]  and perhaps '  are the least used part of the keyboards. Really, how often do we use + [ and ]? Maybe the programmer among you do use the brackets a lot, but normal users? Admittedly, the ' is used quite often. What if these keys are the arrow by default and become + [ ] ' as a function layer? Too radical?

The other way is to follow the HHKB Japanese language board and sacrifice the Right Shift. I hardly ever used the Right Shift and it takes up too much real estate in a 60% board.

[Matias]

No need to worry.  It will have standalone arrow keys — not in the fn layer.

This will be very much a "no compromises" 60% keyboard.  It will have more functionality than the FC660, and will be smaller also.

[frvrngn]

This just sounds better the more I read about it! Really can't wait to see the mock up drawings. Any timeframe for that happening?

[Belfong]

No need to worry.  It will have standalone arrow keys — not in the fn layer.

This will be very much a "no compromises" 60% keyboard.  It will have more functionality than the FC660, and will be smaller also.

+1

AWESOME!

Can't wait till January!!!

[hasu]

Thinking out loud here. One of the reasons the FC660C is popular is the inclusion of the arrow keys.

It is exactly reason I don't like them.
Look at those boards like HHKB JP, Minila, FC660 and Pure pro. They are ... ah... ugly or chaotic, million miles far from beauty, excellence, conciseness and legitimacy.
If arrow keys is so important 60% is not sane decision for those poeple. TKL and full-size have far better arrow keys naturally.

[Matias]

This just sounds better the more I read about it! Really can't wait to see the mock up drawings. Any timeframe for that happening?

We're doing another product announcement beginning of December.  I'll be able to reveal some details on the 60% then.

The 3D drawings should be ready by Dec/Jan, which is when I'd post the interest check.  We'd likely start taking orders soon after.

[BearManJim]

We're doing another product announcement beginning of December.

An alps numpad perhaps?! Would go nicely with a 60% board.

[AKmalamute]

Thinking out loud here. One of the reasons the FC660C is popular is the inclusion of the arrow keys.

It is exactly reason I don't like them.

TKL is one tiny step shy of a full keyboard, and honestly 75% is more keys than I need. But I use the arrow keys all the time ... I work with text, and while I acknowledge you do, too obviously we do it differently.

see my .sig? I say the only thing wrong with the HHKB ... is the lack of an arrow cluster.

I think if I were building a sixty from the ground up I'd have a split space bar and use the left half for 'shift' ... actually split spacebars might be the time to consider SpaceFN (Which thread I've read, and dismissed as very much 'not for me')

I'm glad for you that you use your keyboard for its beauty and legitimacy ... but I use it for it's functionality. And I drool over the FC660M ... except I'd have PgUp/PgDn instead of Insert/Delete off to the side but whatev'.

Looking forward to the Matias announcement, and pictures.

[Linkbane]

TKL is one tiny step shy of a full keyboard, and honestly 75% is more keys than I need. But I use the arrow keys all the time ... I work with text, and while I acknowledge you do, too obviously we do it differently.

In that vein, a 60% is only one even tinier step short of a TKL.
TKL vs fullsize is the largest step in key size, losing four key widths plus the dividing area. The 60% is only three keys.
A TKL is significantly smaller than a full size, and retains most of its functionality. That's why most of us have one rather than a 60%.

[davkol]

TKL is one tiny step shy of a full keyboard, and honestly 75% is more keys than I need. But I use the arrow keys all the time ... I work with text, and while I acknowledge you do, too obviously we do it differently.

In that vein, a 60% is only one even tinier step short of a TKL.
TKL vs fullsize is the largest step in key size, losing four key widths plus the dividing area. The 60% is only three keys.
A TKL is significantly smaller than a full size, and retains most of its functionality. That's why most of us have one rather than a 60%.

Four, not three. There's a gap between nav cluster and the alphanumeric part. And another row + gap less.

[Linkbane]

TKL is one tiny step shy of a full keyboard, and honestly 75% is more keys than I need. But I use the arrow keys all the time ... I work with text, and while I acknowledge you do, too obviously we do it differently.

In that vein, a 60% is only one even tinier step short of a TKL.
TKL vs fullsize is the largest step in key size, losing four key widths plus the dividing area. The 60% is only three keys.
A TKL is significantly smaller than a full size, and retains most of its functionality. That's why most of us have one rather than a 60%.

Four, not three. There's a gap between nav cluster and the alphanumeric part. And another row + gap less.

Three keys and spacing, not four keys. The nav cluster is obviously not four keys wide.
Otherwise, removing numpad is five keys. Define it however you'd like.

[davkol]

Huh? Last time I checked, the numpad area was 5×4 grid (dimension as in case of matrix).

Anyway, I prefer compact keyboard + external keypad. What's the point of keys that can't be reached from the home row?

[Linkbane]

Huh? Last time I checked, the numpad area was 5×4 grid (dimension as in case of matrix).

Anyway, I prefer compact keyboard + external keypad. What's the point of keys that can't be reached from the home row?

You are making no sense. You just defined removing the nav cluster and it's row as four, while it is clearly three, because there is the normal spacing between it, the central part, and the numpad. If you applied the same logic to the numpad, as you are removing it in the space between it and the nav cluster, that would be five keys.

[dustinhxc]

Huh? Last time I checked, the numpad area was 5×4 grid (dimension as in case of matrix).

Anyway, I prefer compact keyboard + external keypad. What's the point of keys that can't be reached from the home row?

^^ Only way to go! 

[Matias]

Just ran across this...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilyblincoe/sets/72157633755802272

Some interesting (and tasteful) colour combos.  Slate black background seems to work with just about anything.

White and red look pretty nice together...




And you can do some pretty interesting things with blue...

[SUPER432]

Just ran across this...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilyblincoe/sets/72157633755802272

Some interesting (and tasteful) colour combos.  Slate black background seems to work with just about anything.

White and red look pretty nice together...

Show Image

And you can do some pretty interesting things with blue...

Show Image

That's a really cool photoset!

[Wilkie]

Slate color is nice.  Please also consider black on gray, like this Ducky G2 Pro PBT:


(Photo from mechanicalkeyboards.com.)

Black on slate?

[tuxsavvy]

Just ran across this...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilyblincoe/sets/72157633755802272

Some interesting (and tasteful) colour combos.  Slate black background seems to work with just about anything.

White and red look pretty nice together...

Show Image

And you can do some pretty interesting things with blue...

Show Image

"Round up" candy? 

I can't help thinking "Round up" as this:

 )

[Matias]

Slate color is nice.  Please also consider black on gray, like this Ducky G2 Pro PBT:

Show Image

(Photo from mechanicalkeyboards.com.)

Black on slate?

Would probably look even better with black modifiers.