Kinesis Advantage Pro UK keys?

[ElectronicFur]

Hi,

I just received my Kinesis Advantage Pro from Amazon UK, and it came with a US keys layout.

I had assumed that it would come with a UK layout as it's from Amazon UK, and the Kinesis website stated they're offered in German, Swedish, or UK layouts by European resellers.

The US layout is a bit problematic for me as I'm a programmer, so make a lot of use of the special characters. And I've always used the UK layout.

Anyone else ordered from Amazon UK and got UK keys?

And does anyone know if it's easy to get and replace the US keys for UK keys?

Frustratingly I paid extra for next day delivery as I couldnt wait to try this keyboard, only for it to come with US keys.  Kind of funny that the whole reason I started to look at buying a new keyboard is that I needed an extra one for when I'm working on site in Belgium, where I have to use various Belgian Dutch, Belgian French, and Swiss keyboards, which is somewhat confusing.

But at least that led me to discovering this forum and the Kinesis, which I hope will be a big improvement to my old MS Natural Elite keyboard.

Cheers,
EF

[davkol]

Contact Kinesis (either directly, or maybe in their subforum.

BTW it always makes me wonder why people (especially those who buy ergonomic keyboards, those keyboards are meant for touch-typists) depend on keycaps' legends so much.

[boli]

That's funny, I switched to US layout from my native Swiss German layout when I was at uni, because the US layout is so much better for programming.

Then 5.5 years ago I switched to Colemak, which is almost the same regarding special characters. And 5 years ago I switched to a Kinesis advantage. The one I currently type on doesn't even have any legends:


I'd suggest learning to type blindly, it's almost a must on a Kinesis Advantage IMO.

[ElectronicFur]

BTW it always makes me wonder why people (especially those who buy ergonomic keyboards, those keyboards are meant for touch-typists) depend on keycaps' legends so much.

Hi Davkol,

The main reason for the purchase of an ergonomic keyboard is I'm hoping it will help with my trapped nerve problems in my shoulder and neck.

But it's a fair point. I actually keep meaning to learn to touch type. But too many projects, so always end up putting it off. So my thinking was that buying a Kinesis keyboard would finally be the push to teach myself.

After reading through some interesting posts in this forum, and others during my keyboard search, I started thinking of whether I should just move away from qwerty altogether and learn Dvorak. Then I should maybe get some blank keycaps. Then I read about Colemak and got confused which layout would be best for a programmer. Then I remembered I am busy coding for my startup and do I really have the time, just stick with qwerty for now.

So my intention was to get the keyboard with UK qwerty layout. Learn to touchtype. Then, once mastered, time permitting, learn another layout and purchase blank keycaps. Also the UK keycaps would make it easier to sell my keyboard here in the UK in case I wanted to purchase the new Advantage version that Kinesis say is planned for release this year. Or in case I just didnt get on with the Advantage.

Does that make sense, or is it foolish and better to commit to a new layout straight away?

Cheers,
EF

[davkol]

Learning to touch type is a pain. Learning a new layout is a pain. Learning to type on a matrix keyboard with totally non-standard physical layout is a pain. Doing all this at once is a huge pain. However, it may be easier than doing it step by step. The only thing needed is iron will. If you're able to go through all of this, go for it as soon as you can. You might be able to keep QWERTY skills (if you have any) on staggered keyboards, and be efficient on a kinesis w/ ergonomic layout.

Colemak vs. Dvorak is a matter of personal preference. Basically Colemak ~ key rolls; and Dvorak ~ hand alternation. I recommend special characters (brackets and stuff) on second layer in any case.

[eviltobz]

Heh, I'm in the UK, a programmer, my Kinesis arrived on Thursday, and I started learning Colemak last week

I took the view that if I'm getting used to a completely different shaped keyboard it's a good time to dive in to a better layout too. Unfortunately I'm still stuck on my normal apple keyboard at home, so I'm not able to complete the switch entirely.

I've been a dev for well over a decade, but only learned to touch type qwerty a couple of years ago. When I did that it wasn't toooo hard too get it under my fingers as I'd obviously been using the layout all my life, and I could always go back to looking if I needed to crank something out quickly. With Colemak I'm really trying to avoid qwerty so as I don't confuse myself too much, which definitely limits how fast I can go (and really screws me over as something of a newby vim user when I mis-key something, especially going for hjkl by feel). When the Kinesis turned up that only served to exacerbate the problem as some symbols have moved and the thumbs are suddenly doing so much more including enter and backspace by default, and shift after I did some remapping.

That probably comes over a little negative, but really I'm not. I can already feel how much more efficient Colemak is whenever I need to use someone else's qwerty keyboard, and the Kinesis fits like a glove, so I'm looking forward to my Ergodox kit arriving so I can have something similar at home too. There's just a lot of change to get used to. I reckon you'd likely learn Colemak quicker if you don't have qwerty touch typing skills muddling you up too. I've remapped the Kinesis to Colemak directly, so I can still have a qwerty keyboard plugged in to go old school when needed. That may be the best compromise.

[hoggy]

It would take quite a while to sell the kinesis for a decent price, and prospective buyers wouldn't think to check it's got UK legends (or even care).

The us layout (the physical layout, rather than #/£ etc)  seems to be better for programming with the improved access to the enter key. Be aware of losing the backslash if you don't change the layout in the operating system.

I've had a kinesis for a few years and I love it.

[ElectronicFur]

Thanks for the advice folks. I'm kind of in two minds now on what to do. Perhaps taking the pain in one go is better. I'm leaning towards to Colemak layout, but my main reservation is that it's not included in Windows by default, and I have to work on locked down PC's when on client site. Altho I hope I can still get in on the ErgoDox massdrop, because that would be a nice portable solution for when I'm onsite.

Davkol, putting the special chars on the second layer is one of the attractions of the Kinesis, and why I got the Pro version, as I think for that the footswitch will be handy, or should that be footy? And I liked the retro look of the silver

Talking of looks, Boli's blank keys make the keyboard look even nicer.

Eviltobz, I've been a dev for two decades, and managed to get by without touchtyping. It's about time I started I guess! I hear what you say about vim, it takes a while to get used to it anyway, even just with qwerty. Great once you mastered it though, so worth persevering.

Cheers,
EF

[natas206]

contact tech@kinesis.com, we can help you with UK keycaps (or blanks if you want to buy a set).

[ElectronicFur]

Well I'm slowly typing this with colemak.

And Kinesis have been great and sent me some free UK keys. Handy for when I revert to qwerty to get some work done.

I also bought some blanks from them for when I can go faster than 4 words per minute!

Cheers,
EF

[sordna]

Don't get discouraged, 4 wpm is fine :-)  Just stick with it and you'll grow. And actually, if you learn colemak on the Kinesis and make it your main keyboard, perhaps you should stick with QWERTY on regular keyboards.
That would be similar to what I have done: Dvorak on the Kinesis (~90WPM) and QWERTY on regular keyboards (~60WPM) so I can be productive both at my desk and at other people's computers. I don't get confused at all, however I did stick with Dvorak religiously for the first month or two in order to master it.

The matrix split layout of the Kinesis actually tells your brain that you have to do things differently anyway, so the radical difference in keyboard shapes makes it very easy for the brain to associate each shape with a particular layout.

I didn't know or plan this 7-8 years ago when I got my first Kinesis and learned Dvorak, but in hindsight I am thrilled that things went this way...

[ElectronicFur]

Thanks Sordna, that is a good idea. I'll try to stick to Colemak on the Kinesis. I'm up to a blazing 10 wpm now, so slowly getting there.

And the Kinesis design is helping my shoulders keep more relaxed, so definitely helping my trapped nerve problems.

Cheers,
EF

[Input Nirvana]

My experience has been to make all the changes at once. Yes, it can bring you to a grinding halt for a very brief period, but it's been shown that total immersion is the fastest, most complete method of learning/adapting.

Sordna makes a good point with the different layout for different keyboard. I now use a 'regular' keyboard at work and use qwerty, and a Kinesis at home with Colemak.

[sordna]

IN, good to hear you are maintaining fluency in 2 layouts! Please post your WPMs here, I created a thread specifically to track WPM for folks that know 2 (or more) layouts:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40823.0