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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 June 2019, 16:33:19
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Yay o' Nay ?
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It's better than coal, we have not figured out how to dispose of the waste properly though. All those big brains over all those years and the best solution they can come up with is a cement hole in the ground? Come on.
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Yea, it's pretty scary that they haven't actually figured out how to contain the stuff long term.
For example, just by being a state hosting n00q_ular waste, THE ENTIRE STATE is getting a higher dose of radiation. Armor penetration @ Max lvl.
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No
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Just get Elon to shoot it into space for us.
Problem solved. Bring on the Nuc Plants.
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Just get Elon to shoot it into space for us.
Problem solved. Bring on the Nuc Plants.
Hahahahahah...
U realize, IF one of those rockets fail.. we would've n00q_ed ourselves ?
Also, the payload may be too heavy.
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Just get Elon to shoot it into space for us.
Problem solved. Bring on the Nuc Plants.
Hahahahahah...
U realize, IF one of those rockets fail.. we would've n00q_ed ourselves ?
Also, the payload may be too heavy.
My payload is too heavy.
Also Elon wouldn't let us down.
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We've shot nuclear material into space several times now, just not in large quantity.
NAY.
Not only have we not figured out a way to store it, all attempts thus far have fallen short and fixing it has been an issue. It's a bit BS to complain about driving our grandkids into the poor house but perfectly okay to leave them this mess to clean up... If they can. Also major cleanup is costly as hell, so it will drive them to the poor house. Of course there's never enough time or money to do it right the first time but always is the second time... If it impacts the right people at least, which it won't. How about instead of kicking the can down the road and creating massive problems for others later we simply deal with it now?
Second, when you screw up, and nature sure has a great way of proving how imperfect your perfect engineering actually is, it's not an oops sorry. This will be a lingering problem for a LOONG, LOONG time and covering a large area. Say what you will about solar or wind, but any catastrophe pales in comparison. For those who claim it is safer now than before, humans are always part of any equation. Have you actually looked at the number incidents and attacks on these facilities, it's not exactly miniscule, look here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents) and here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_nuclear_disasters_and_radioactive_incidents). It's a LOT higher than people realize and guess where much of the blame falls? Not nature or the technology it's the people.
Remember, all of this is usually built by the lowest bidder. I know someone who worked QA on cooling systems and more often than not if something was questionable they got slipped a little extra and it magically passed. Have you seen the Scotland plant they want to restart? It's 50 years old and hundreds of cracks, but they want an exemption. We all know when they exceed that new safety standard they will simply once again seek a newer less stringent exemption next time. They will repeat this until it either becomes cost inefficient or it blows up in their face. Why? Because this is how they run things, make as money as you can for as long as you can and then you walk away, claim bankruptcy and let the public pay again to clean it up. If you take into account the entire cost from start to cleanup, it's not cheaper by any stretch of the imagination. It's only cheaper if you ignoring the after care, which the companies always do.
I think the technology has merit, but not in its current form, it's too dangerous and humans are too reckless. You can blame Chernobyl on Russian politics, that may have been a catalyst but don't forget what actually caused the blow itself, simple cost cutting and people pushing it's limits (hello Scotland!). But of course we wouldn't do anything (PG&E electrical grid fire in California) like (BP Deepwater Horizon) that (Boeing 737 Max) would (coal ash ponds) we (Flint water)?
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The only rich Jpn guy Tp4 knows (networth 50m+) immigrated a total of 9 mothers+babies from his family branch to the USA post Fukushima. -none of them even lived near fukushima-
Called him up after watching Chernobyl , Of course he neither confirmed nor denied any knowledge of continued radiation problems, but he did say that all 9 mothers + babies are still in the USA, 8 years later, quote: "they like the weather".
So, what do des rich-people know that they arn't telling us peasants..
Of course if you youtube it, the previous mayor of the jpn district tells russian news that it's all been covered up, and that there is significant rise in radiation related sickness among residents. Medical doctors/services have been instructed by jpn secret police to not record medical issues as potentially caused by radiation.
//Conspiracy mode activate !!
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PRISM reactors look promising in the near term. One huge benefit would be recycling radioactive waste to generate more power and reduce radiotoxicity from hundreds of thousands of years. If this tech makes it and can make a sizable difference on the waste stockpile then I'd be all for more nuclear power.
https://nuclear.gepower.com/build-a-plant/products/nuclear-power-plants-overview/prism1
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/PRISM-selected-for-US-test-reactor-programme
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?
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Now if we were able to control and maintain a nuclear fusion with a viable source feed, we’d be onto the best thing since sliced bread.
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Make a safer reactor, make it as safe as you want, some executive will ignore safety protocols because it costs too much
Per Wikipedia (who has sources)
"On 5 July 2012, the National Diet of Japan Fukushima Nuclear Accident Independent Investigation Commission (NAIIC) found that the causes of the accident had been foreseeable (so was Chernobyl), and that the plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), had failed to meet basic safety requirements such as risk assessment, preparing for containing collateral damage, and developing evacuation plans. On 12 October 2012, TEPCO admitted for the first time that it had failed to take necessary measures for fear of inviting lawsuits or protests against its nuclear plants."
Meanwhile, TEPCO, while still being bailed out by Japanese gov, actually bragged about profits last year and is still running reactors.
It's not the technology that is the problem, it's the people, even if you could solve every other problem with this sort of power generation, the people in charge will find a way to screw it up because someone is always willing to cut a corner to make a buck.
By the way,
If you haven't followed it, early reports downplayed it heavily and people stopped paying attention (which was by design), however, as time has gone Fukushima has creeped up and now ranks a 7 on the nuclear disaster scale, a spot which only Chernobyl matches. Also, something that was kind of kept secret, they considered evacuating Tokyo. If they even considered causing that sort of panic and mass exodus you can bet it too is contaminated to at least some degree.
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Ugh.. last time i did that netherrack came out of my closet.
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The Fukushima disaster is scary to read about. Disasters like this I think kind of outweigh the benefits from all of the nuclear power plants combined. I don't know what the right answer is to the question of nuclear power. I don't think we should give up entirely nor rely solely on this tech. I think better reactor and plant design will go a long way in mitigating human error but there will always be inherit risks involved. Regulation and promotion of safety culture are crucial as well. Cheaper power sources certainly hurt the feasibility of nuclear power but nuclear power helps reduce our carbon footprint. If only we could break our unhealthy and unsustainable addictions to electricity and fossil fuels :))
Also I just read the last last reactor at Three Mile Island is shutting down. Whats crazy is how much of a commitment and expense there is to decommission a plant. Besides the usual decontamination work "the plan to dismantle large components won’t begin until 2074" :eek: Welp I won't have to worry about that as more than likely I won't be around by then.
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/us/three-mile-island-shut-down.html
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The Fukushima disaster is scary to read about. Disasters like this I think kind of outweigh the benefits from all of the nuclear power plants combined. I don't know what the right answer is to the question of nuclear power. I don't think we should give up entirely nor rely solely on this tech. I think better reactor and plant design will go a long way in mitigating human error but there will always be inherit risks involved. Regulation and promotion of safety culture are crucial as well. Cheaper power sources certainly hurt the feasibility of nuclear power but nuclear power helps reduce our carbon footprint. If only we could break our unhealthy and unsustainable addictions to electricity and fossil fuels :))
Also I just read the last last reactor at Three Mile Island is shutting down. Whats crazy is how much of a commitment and expense there is to decommission a plant. Besides the usual decontamination work "the plan to dismantle large components won’t begin until 2074" :eek: Welp I won't have to worry about that as more than likely I won't be around by then.
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/us/three-mile-island-shut-down.html
The only way Reactors get funded is through public money which is in a hostage situation.
Nearly every reactor we build is significantly over-budget, they've never come online ON TIME, and the people of each state that put up the money never get their power bills lowered, it almost always increases, for the next 50-70 years.
Whereas Solar actually HAS reduced local power cost and comes online much faster.
The economics doesn't work out in the USA for n00q due to the cost of construction.
Even then, you are correct in pointing out that cleanup is impossible. ALL n00q disasters are laden with coverups and they NEVER tell the populace just how bad it got. The power behind the push for this technology is the doomsday branch of the military, and so they are well above the law in every regard.
In terms of Carbon, Every new reactor only reduce carbon emission by 0.007%. Because mining uranium/ building reactors is itself extremely carbon intensive.
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Solar is getting popular in Australia. My house has a solar system. I know a few people that almost have no electricity bill from large solar setups. I think they are a good supplement to the grid, I believe they have a good service life of around 20 years or something.
BUT DAM I WANNA NUKE MY FOOD WITH NUKS!
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Solar is getting popular in Australia. My house has a solar system. I know a few people that almost have no electricity bill from large solar setups. I think they are a good supplement to the grid, I believe they have a good service life of around 20 years or something.
BUT DAM I WANNA NUKE MY FOOD WITH NUKS!
Dude, head to Jpn, They're actually eatzn' n00ked food right now.
Major gov coverup on the impact. !!
For example after Chernobyl, over the years massive increase in cancer rates in Poland Romania, even as far as Sweden. (Sweeeden, has put a moritorium on n00q power, same with germany)
JPN is going to be living a nightmare for the next 50-100 years. Of course, the secret police keep the hush hush. Expect massive increase in all cause mortality, mainly cancer and heart disease, increased suicide rate, rise in birth defects.
I know u don't berieve Tp4, so here is an Old White guy explaining the situation..
Not a valid vimeo URL
Arnie Gundersen..
B.S. cum laude in nuclear engineering,
master's degree in nuclear engineering,
Atomic Energy Commission Fellowship (1972).
Gundersen holds a nuclear safety patent,
Licensed reactor operator,
Former nuclear industry senior vice president.
Gundersen also managed and coordinated projects at 70 nuclear power plants in the US.
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Solar is getting popular in Australia. My house has a solar system. I know a few people that almost have no electricity bill from large solar setups. I think they are a good supplement to the grid, I believe they have a good service life of around 20 years or something.
BUT DAM I WANNA NUKE MY FOOD WITH NUKS!
Dude, head to Jpn, They're actually eatzn' n00ked food right now.
Major gov coverup on the impact. !!
For example after Chernobyl, over the years massive increase in cancer rates in Poland Romania, even as far as Sweden. (Sweeeden, has put a moritorium on n00q power, same with germany)
JPN is going to be living a nightmare for the next 50 years. Of course, the secret police keep the hush hush.
I know u don't berieve Tp4, so here is an Old White guy explaining the situation..
Not a valid vimeo URL
Arnie Gundersen..
B.S. cum laude in nuclear engineering,
master's degree in nuclear engineering,
Atomic Energy Commission Fellowship (1972).
Gundersen holds a nuclear safety patent,
Licensed reactor operator,
Former nuclear industry senior vice president.
Gundersen also managed and coordinated projects at 70 nuclear power plants in the US.
I have a flint and steel, wanna borrow it?
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B.S. cum lord n nuclear engineering,
I did not know this was an academic title.
I wouldn't be supprised by anything.
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B.S. cum lord n nuclear engineering,
I did not know this was an academic title.
I wouldn't be supprised by anything.
The reactor has leaked an equivalent of 168 hiroshimas worth of radz.. even 1x hiro worth of radz is crzy devastating.
It is STILL leaking today, They're running out of space on site to store the contaminated water which has reached 1 million TONS. They have to keep pouring water on this because the fuel is still hot and Burning.
The entire surrounding taken as a whole, is Significantly more contaminated / radioactive TODAY , than during the initial incident.
Just trodding around Tokyo, their regular front office dirt measures as contaminated waste by US standards.
Of course, post haste, the government Raised the allowable soil radiation.
TO SOME EXTENT, the coverup may be necessary ?
Because, how can a population realistically live in an irradiated pile ?
Essentially half of Jpn is now heavily contaminated. The fukushima prefecture (state) is something the size of connecticut, You can't clean something the size of connecticut.. That's a fool's errand..
UNLIKE chernobyl, you can't just abandon land in Jpn, because there isn't much of it to begin with. Add ontop of that the population density.
So, realistically, Either Japan is done as a soverign nation, ORRRR, Everyone pretend like there is no disaster, and just carry on, live to the best of their ability.
This is a tough question .. The West is extremely critical of how the government is handling the media and destroying medical reports.
But, heck , what else can they do.
Then there's the olympics.. where the French are suing that Jpn officials bribed the committee w/ 2 million $$ through a thailand black fund. Not sure why they're doing this, since france has its own bustling n00q industry.
Not saying don't go to the olympics, buh,, u know, don't stay too long, try not to eat too much..
RadioA particles are bio-accumulating, and specifically the cesium binds to protein, resulting in what's known now as chernobyl Heart.. not that this would happen if you went to jpn for a few days. buhhh, well u don't know where that fish has been.. and there is an ever continuous cycle of radiation backwash which the weather cycles inwards.
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Nothing better than a little MOPP 4 for that Sunday stroll to the park with your radioactive dograt.
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Nothing better than a little MOPP 4 for that Sunday stroll to the park with your radioactive dograt.
Not sure Jpn has a choice, Forgetting that it's happening and moving on MAY be crazy, but still logical .
It's like getting cancer, To which approximately 1,000,000 new cancers will result of this accident in the nxt 30 years in jpn, mostly women/children.
Most will not have the means to leave Jpn, or rather Jpn wouldn't let them leave, so the only other option is to just accept that it's going to be tough, and be happy they've been born at all.
What a morbidly morose circumstance..
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Thanks for sharing that vid TP. I found it interesting.
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Thanks for sharing that vid TP. I found it interesting.
Yea, A.G. makes n00qs so easy to understand.. it' no safe. period.
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It's really not that bad. It's much much safer than people think, because all they think of is Chernobyl, Fukushima, or 3 Mile. Because there's really not many examples of core meltdowns in history so there's just a few go-to's for talking points. You know how many have been killed second hand by other power sources? Hint: it's a lot.
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It's really not that bad. It's much much safer than people think, because all they think of is Chernobyl, Fukushima, or 3 Mile. Because there's really not many examples of core meltdowns in history so there's just a few go-to's for talking points. You know how many have been killed second hand by other power sources? Hint: it's a lot.
That is not true at all.
Chernobyl has killed 1million + , Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl , predicted to affect 1 million +. Tokyo is ffffkked.. They even have fractured families now, where the mother and children are sent off to live elsewhere, while the father stays in Tokyo for work. Nooq p0wr is something that can fracture society overnight.
The list of meltdowns is the 5 reactors, 1 chernobyl, 1 3mile island, 3 @ fukushima, but the list of Nuclear accidents is far larger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country
Reactors also output radiation into the atmosphere/land both in the smoke and the cooling water.
Germany done the study on drawing concentric rings around reactors which proved definitively that the closer you are to the reactor, there is a spike in Leukemia. Post Fukushima, they made the decision to shut it all down and go to renewable.
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That is not true at all.
yes it is. all your facts are wrong and made up and you smell.
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That is not true at all.
yes it is. all your facts are wrong and made up and you smell.
TP's father smelt of elderberries.
SO nukes = no bueno.
ALSO big oil is also evil: https://imgur.com/gallery/vuTL0qK
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That is not true at all.
yes it is. all your facts are wrong and made up and you smell.
TP's father smelt of elderberries.
SO nukes = no bueno.
ALSO big oil is also evil: https://imgur.com/gallery/vuTL0qK
OMG, WATER CRISIS, NUKED EARTH........ IRL FALLOUT LARP SESSION ANYONE?
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Have you not heard, "the solution to pollution is dilution" - every mining company ever.
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Show me a company who will run the reactor safely, and I'll show you a company who will be bought out in 5 years by one who won't.
They can't help themselves.
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Everybody's watching it except me
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Everybody's watching it except me
it's a bummer of a show
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Everybody's watching it except me
aight i have exams to do, see yáll later
it's a bummer of a show
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Everybody's watching it except me
aight i have exams to do, see yáll later
it's a bummer of a show
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fanpeeps has such a way wit wurds.. he says so much without having to said anything at all .
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fanpeeps has such a way wit wurds.. he says so much without having to said anything at all .
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fanpeeps has such a way wit wurds.. he says so much without having to said anything at all .
/Agree, the saga Continues. !!
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tp must have just watched Chernobyl
i think it's a great option, just not until we've solved nuclear waste management
Everybody's watching it except me
it's a bummer of a show
We already know how it ends. :))
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We already know how it ends. :))
Thing that bums me out hte most, is that Right now, Because Tepco realizes that it's impossible to clean up their nuclear disaster to the LVL of emmision PRIOR to meltdown, They just Changed the law such that now the allowable radiation limit is 20x higher.
Now, peeps might say, why should I care, that's in japan, Oh but they're in the process of passing the SAME Higher limits in the USA, now that Trump has the EPA.
We're so boned.. ..
Now, u might be all , Tp, Y you betray America.. say all dis' bad stuff bout 'Murica.
General Electric Nuclear is owned by HITACHI
and
Westinghouse Electric went bankrupt and is owned by TOSHIBA..
The NUCLEAR Powerplants being built in the USA NOW, have ALL MAIN COMPONENTS including REACTOR, BUILT IN CHINA. The only job Onsite is the legos assembly.
Bringing back n00q will not create nearly the number of promised new jobs, as most of this stuff is all carted in.
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OMG.. m0ar Coverup.
June 18th, A magnitude 6.7 earthquake struck off the coast of Yamagata and Niigata prefectures. (they're right next to fukushima)
The Niigata 7x reactor plant sent off a FAX, yes, Jpn peeps still love 2 Fax, citing abnormalities detected on the power supply for cooling spent fuel pools.
The prefecture gov obviously activated OMFG mode and Called up TEPCO..
THEN, Thennnn.. TEPCO, said, Oh NO, it was a Mistake, NO PROBLEM. Here's a New Fax, and we circled this box on ober here, NO-problems. ALL is well. ___ OLYMPICS Y'all, GHet HYPE. !!
While this abnormality is probably not severe, but sigh............
The average Salary of dudes @ a n00q plant is $100,000 +, These are not peeps who would make such a trivial error.
While the problem may ultimately be inconsequential, This is almost certainly a forced Coverup
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Although you're talking about advantages, there's many disadvantages that come with it too. For example, if you take a tour of a nuclear plant, after it's used up it must be stored in containers so it can cool down. Once we run out, we run out ): .
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Although you're talking about advantages, there's many disadvantages that come with it too. For example, if you take a tour of a nuclear plant, after it's used up it must be stored in containers so it can cool down. Once we run out, we run out ): .
purple text makes me think a Legendary Item just dropped
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Renewable energy like solar and other energy sources help put a dent into the profitability of nuclear power. Unfortunately once the sun drops the nuclear plants have to ramp up to meet the demand so nuclear helps provide a solid base level of power. If every home had solar panels and battery storage this would make nuclear power less attractive with current tech.
Really interesting documentary on the IFR reactor. It looks like they were really on to some breakthroughs decades ago before funding was cut. I think this debate would look a lot different if current reactors in use were based on this concept from the start.
Edit: Also another interesting interview:
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Renewable energy like solar and other energy sources help put a dent into the profitability of nuclear power. Unfortunately once the sun drops the nuclear plants have to ramp up to meet the demand so nuclear helps provide a solid base level of power. If every home had solar panels and battery storage this would make nuclear power less attractive with current tech.
Really interesting documentary on the IFR reactor. It looks like they were really on to some breakthroughs decades ago before funding was cut. I think this debate would look a lot different if current reactors in use were based on this concept from the start.
There may come a time when mankind will have the technology to deal with the Full PROCESS of n00q_ular energy.
However, AS IT STANDS, we are not even close to mastering the complete chain of events.
For example, the marketing for n00q is selling us on carbon footprint. Their numbers always exclude MINING for the ore, AND Storage of n00q waste.
Once you add those processes back in, the footprint is only 7% better than COAL FIRE.
We also have NO IDEA how to deal with the waste, it has to be stored for at least 100-250 THOUSAND years. Modern civilization is only 10-15 thousand years old.
Washington State has TONS and Tons of Fukushima lvl n00q waste in basement of decommissioned plants, yet No one is willing to put up the money to clean it up.
This is why Wind/Solar/Oceanic and Geotherm are the best way forward and can be operational within 2 years.
It takes 8-10 years to build a n00q reactor, to reach 1 Gigawatt
In the same amount of TIME, we can build 100 Gigawatt worth of Solar.
Time is a major factor because at our current pace on Carbon emission, we have 8-12 years before irreversible runaway effect takes place.
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Renewable energy like solar and other energy sources help put a dent into the profitability of nuclear power. Unfortunately once the sun drops the nuclear plants have to ramp up to meet the demand so nuclear helps provide a solid base level of power. If every home had solar panels and battery storage this would make nuclear power less attractive with current tech.
Really interesting documentary on the IFR reactor. It looks like they were really on to some breakthroughs decades ago before funding was cut. I think this debate would look a lot different if current reactors in use were based on this concept from the start.
There may come a time when mankind will have the technology to deal with the Full PROCESS of n00q_ular energy.
However, AS IT STANDS, we are not even close to mastering the complete chain of events.
For example, the marketing for n00q is selling us on carbon footprint. Their numbers always exclude MINING for the ore, AND Storage of n00q waste.
Once you add those processes back in, the footprint is only 7% better than COAL FIRE.
We also have NO IDEA how to deal with the waste, it has to be stored for at least 100-250 THOUSAND years. Modern civilization is only 10-15 thousand years old.
Washington State has TONS and Tons of Fukushima lvl n00q waste in basement of decommissioned plants, yet No one is willing to put up the money to clean it up.
This is why Wind/Solar/Oceanic and Geotherm are the best way forward and can be operational within 2 years.
It takes 8-10 years to build a n00q reactor, to reach 1 Gigawatt
In the same amount of TIME, we can build 100 Gigawatt worth of Solar.
Time is a major factor because at our current pace on Carbon emission, we have 8-12 years before irreversible runaway effect takes place.
Watch these vids all the way through. The IFR tech is orders of magnitude more efficient at consuming energy from fuel and the waste is continuously recycled. Not only does this reactor recycle the fuel it also converts the really bad waste elements to less bad radioactive elements which are much more manageable. This tech is the way to deal with the stockpile of spent fuel. This or keep it buried and pretend it doesn't exist.
Edit:
Solar can be expensive, requires a lot of space, and energy storage systems are expensive. Also solar won't be good for some places, e.g. Alaska.
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Watch these vids all the way through. The IFR tech is orders of magnitude more efficient at consuming energy from fuel and the waste is continuously recycled. Not only does this reactor recycle the fuel it also converts the really bad waste elements to less bad radioactive elements which are much more manageable. This tech is the way to deal with the stockpile of spent fuel. This or keep it buried and pretend it doesn't exist.
Edit:
Solar can be expensive, requires a lot of space, and energy storage systems are expensive. Also solar won't be good for some places, e.g. Alaska.
The breeder concept has been LONG explored, Every country that has tried it FAILED..
It only works on paper, but put AFK, it simply does not work. The reprocessing is simply too slow to be remotely economically viable.
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Watch these vids all the way through. The IFR tech is orders of magnitude more efficient at consuming energy from fuel and the waste is continuously recycled. Not only does this reactor recycle the fuel it also converts the really bad waste elements to less bad radioactive elements which are much more manageable. This tech is the way to deal with the stockpile of spent fuel. This or keep it buried and pretend it doesn't exist.
Edit:
Solar can be expensive, requires a lot of space, and energy storage systems are expensive. Also solar won't be good for some places, e.g. Alaska.
The breeder concept has been LONG explored, Every country that has tried it FAILED..
It only works on paper, but put AFK, it simply does not work. The reprocessing is simply too slow to be remotely economically viable.
The tech works and the tech is here. PRISM is the commercial implementation of this original IFR tech developed by Argonne. This isn't the holy grail of energy production and there are still problems but there are still scientists interested in solving them. We need viable solutions to stem the tide of global warming. With a power source like this on Mars we could start terraforming the planet. Scientists needs more money and intellectual infrastructure. We could really do some cool stuff.
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The tech works and the tech is here. PRISM is the commercial implementation of this original IFR tech developed by Argonne. This isn't the holy grail of energy production and there are still problems but there are still scientists interested in solving them. We need viable solutions to stem the tide of global warming. With a power source like this on Mars we could start terraforming the planet. Scientists needs more money and intellectual infrastructure. We could really do some cool stuff.
If we had Unlimited TIME to solve these technical challenges, PERHAPS.
I'm not against reactor development in general, HOWEVER as of 20 years ago, we've run out of time to avert major climate change disasters.
Fast reactor simply can't be done fast enough in the Carbon-Footprint we have LEFT available. approximately 8-12 years given current emission rates
Maybe it could be revisited, in the future, but to put it in perspective, Pretty much all of these fast reactors had some sort of partial meltdown.
We can barely keep the lid on using water, Now they want molten-Sodium. XD..
Remember, we've already had 5 big melts in 40 years. We're overdue for another.
This is not the time.
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The tech works and the tech is here. PRISM is the commercial implementation of this original IFR tech developed by Argonne. This isn't the holy grail of energy production and there are still problems but there are still scientists interested in solving them. We need viable solutions to stem the tide of global warming. With a power source like this on Mars we could start terraforming the planet. Scientists needs more money and intellectual infrastructure. We could really do some cool stuff.
If we had Unlimited TIME to solve these technical challenges, PERHAPS.
I'm not against reactor development in general, HOWEVER as of 20 years ago, we've run out of time to avert major climate change disasters.
Fast reactor simply can't be done fast enough in the Carbon-Footprint we have LEFT available. approximately 8-12 years given current emission rates
Maybe it could be revisited, in the future, but to put it in perspective, Pretty much all of these fast reactors had some sort of partial meltdown.
We can barely keep the lid on using water, Now they want molten-Sodium. XD..
Remember, we've already had 5 big melts in 40 years. We're overdue for another.
This is not the time.
Well you might be right on the climate change part. As far as meltdowns it's been the existing light water reactors and not experimental IFR's.
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Unfortunately once the sun drops the nuclear plants have to ramp up to meet the demand so nuclear helps provide a solid base level of power. If every home had solar panels and battery storage this would make nuclear power less attractive with current tech.
Not entirely true.
You're thinking traditional solar power, which is not the only option for solar. There are some that use simple mirrors to aim the sun at a tower which melts salt, the melted salt is used to create steam running a turbine. However it's not direct. The melted salt can be stored and it remains hot enough to keep generating steam for 10 hours after sundown.
Other things that help
Water "batteries", where they use a small, dedicated hydro electric dam to generate power at high draw then at low power they pump the water back up to the battery/reservoir.
Mostly though, it's not like we HAVE to use a reactor to supplement this, we have other ways to generate power. Pretty much all of which carry less risk in the case of a major problem.
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What we need is hydroelectric everywhere. Just carve out huge underground rivers across the country, giant tunnels filled with rushing water and turbines stretching huge lengths underground. Make the tunnels circular or sloped so the water always runs and turbines stay powered. Problem solved, all it takes is untold amounts of financial infrastructure and massive planning. Simple. I'd have it done inside of 40 years, but the effects would mean sustainable non-invasive clean power as long as there's tonnes of water to power it.
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What we need is hydroelectric everywhere. Just carve out huge underground rivers across the country, giant tunnels filled with rushing water and turbines stretching huge lengths underground. Make the tunnels circular or sloped so the water always runs and turbines stay powered. Problem solved, all it takes is untold amounts of financial infrastructure and massive planning. Simple. I'd have it done inside of 40 years, but the effects would mean sustainable non-invasive clean power as long as there's tonnes of water to power it.
Yes but what about the mole people? :rolleyes:
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WIND p0wr is the way to go.
You can build Wind mills SO damn FAST, and it is SO SIMPLE mechanically to maintain.
And long term, less waste processing than even Solar, because PV panels are actually quite toxic to reprocess, 10000x easier than n00q_ular waste, but still burdensome if we're talking millions of panels.
The only downside of windmills is land use and noise, but 'Murica has no shortage of this..
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What about the resulting dead bats and raptors?
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While you think of the propeller style (which are the ones known for killing birds), there are several other styles available.
Newer propeller styles are larger and slower spinning, which addresses a lot of the issues older ones had, they are also being more careful about where they place them. Other types can not only be as efficient, but also quieter and less annoying to people around them, they just don't scale as well in size. That may seem like an issue until you consider that they are easier to put in congested areas. Look around your city, there's a good chance there's a few factories with them. Look up vertical axis wind generators to see some, some look like a bird blender, but others are very bird friendly. Even the scary looking ones tend to spin slow so it's not as bad as they look.
The whole "think of the animals!" argument is bs anyhow, how many birds/animals have died as a result of other forms of power generation? Unless you have numbers (and we don't) it's unfair to say one is worse than the others. The only difference here is that death is instant as opposed to delayed so it's easy for those opposed to it (usually because they are profiting from other forms) to come up with evidence.
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What about the resulting dead bats and raptors?
It's that or ded Everything.. !!
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Thanks for sharing that vid TP. I found it interesting.
(Attachment Link)
Wee WOo Wee Woo
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Wind power is booming but not everywhere has the same wind resources or incentives. One problem with wind might be a reliance on rare earth minerals. If China shuts the tap on exports it would raise the cost. Maybe not a huge issue since there are other sources and other cheaper minerals that could be used. It's always good to have a broad portfolio of energy sources just in case. Rare earth minerals aren't exactly rare but the problem is what to do with the waste products from mining which often contain thorium. Right now it's a regulatory issue of what to do with that stuff so China pretty much runs the heavy metal show \m/
Funny enough the waste thorium could possibly power the world through liquid salt cooled thorium fueled reactors if they ever get the tech right and thorium doesn't produce gamma rays like uranium while the alpha particles emitted by thorium can be stopped by a thin sheet of paper. Probably a pipe dream but if we master thorium we would have lots of clean power and plenty of neodymium for electric car batteries. Also with abundant electricity from clean sources we could produce hydrogen fuel through electrolysis without having to worry about producing more greenhouse gasses in the process.
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No, thorium reactors is breeder type reactor, all such attempts have failed to prove economical.
Overall, the hardest part is not the part about making things HOT and Boiling water.
The Hardest part is , WTH do we do with the waste.. There is NO proven technology for storage.
And If we Build final storage like Onkalo, you know, Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY.. The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.
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Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to work. Those props are slow as ****.
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No, thorium reactors is breeder type reactor, all such attempts have failed to prove economical.
Overall, the hardest part is not the part about making things HOT and Boiling water.
The Hardest part is , WTH do we do with the waste.. There is NO proven technology for storage.
And If we Build it like Onkalo, you know, Finnish people who are RESPONSIBLE.. It would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.
A dutch firm built a test reactor of this kind. The tech promises to be meltdown-proof as the reaction isn't self sustaining and less overall waste being produced.
https://www.technologyreview.com/f/608712/a-thorium-salt-reactor-has-fired-up-for-the-first-time-in-four-decades/
China is really pursuing this tech and will probably be the ones to do it.
http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/press-release/china-invests-big-in-clean-and-cheap-energy-from-thorium
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Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to work. Those props are slow as ****.
I drove through Iowa once and they were everywhere it seemed. Quite mesmerizing initially. Also one time I drove next to a turbine blade being transported on the highway as long as I could as it was completely shielding my face from the sun.
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Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to work. Those props are slow as ****.
I drove through Iowa once and they were everywhere it seemed. Quite mesmerizing initially. Also one time I drove next to a turbine blade being transported on the highway as long as I could as it was completely shielding my face from the sun.
They are kinda relaxing to watch arnt they.
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Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY.. The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.
People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.
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Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?
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Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?
Pretty much sci fi for now.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-current-scien/
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Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?
For the small number of people who claim to have produced cold fusion, there are 10 times that many (well, lots) who have been UNABLE to reproduce the results.
A theory is only as good as the reproducibility of its experiments.
Science in action here.
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People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.
Bottom line, it's too hard to clean.. Japan may well collapse from the weight of this disaster..
Current low birth rate just due to the social - dynamics of their situation.
NOW<>, ontop of that, add,
-Radiation,
-Immunodeficiency, (radiation is an immuno-suppressant)
-Massive rise in cancer rates across HALF of Jpn <the mental toll that such wide spread illness impart on individuals and families>
-Increase in birth defects
-Chernobyl Heart in children
-Highly Toxic Marine life,
-Disturbance in rural landscapes
-OPEN-Air radioactive waste WITH NO WHERE TO GO.
When Naoto Kan (former prime minister) said the Sovereignty of Jpn is at stake. He was not talking about politics here, He really meant, the nation and its inhabitants may keel over and die.
It's even possible that Dystopian movie tropes may actually occur.
And What's worse, if you look at all of China's N00qs, they're right there facing the clean side of Jpn, Christ.. hahahaha.
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Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY.. The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.
People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.
Bottom line, it's too hard to clean.. Japan may well collapse from the weight of this disaster..
They have low birth rate just due to the social - dynamic of their situation.
NOW<>, ontop of that, add,
Radiation,
Immunodeficiency,
Massive rise in cancer rate across HALF of Jpn
Increase in birth defects
Chernobyl Heart
Highly Toxic Marine life,
Disturbance in rural landscapes
OPEN-Air radioactive waste WITH NO WHERE TO GO.
When Naoto Kan (former prime minister) said the Sovereignty of Jpn is at stake. He was not talking about politics here, He really meant, the nation and its inhabitants may keel over and die.
It's even possible that Dystopian movie tropes may actually occur.
And What's worse, if you look at all of China's N00qs, they're right there facing the clean side of Jpn, Christ.. hahahaha.
That's really awful. Japan also apparently has the worlds largest nuclear power plant: https://www.power-technology.com/projects/kashiwazaki/
[Edit] This plant was closed after Fukushima but they are still fighting to this day to restart this.
https://www.dw.com/en/japans-tepco-fights-for-return-to-nuclear-power-after-fukushima/a-47836968
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That's really awful. Japan also apparently has the worlds largest nuclear power plant:
It's simply an incomplete technology , then with climate change as well, we don't have the carbon budget to get it all working.
And it's important to remember, n00q_ular is NOT a low carbon power source, the industry brochures exclude Mining and Disposal. The total carbon footprint is only 7% better than COAL Fire.
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[Edit] This plant was closed after Fukushima but they are still fighting to this day to restart this.
https://www.dw.com/en/japans-tepco-fights-for-return-to-nuclear-power-after-fukushima/a-47836968
The reason they're fighting to turn these back on, is because while the plants are shut down, all staff are still on the payroll. Tepco is currently essentially bankrupt. The company is held afloat through loans (from the bank). The average power plant has a staff of 700-1000 people, with an average salary of 100,000 a head, that's 70-100 MILLION $ for Every year the plant is in shutdown PER powerplant, NOT producing power.
So with the shut downs, they're down $2.2 Billion a year for oh, tsk, 7-8 years.. well.. You get the picture.
It's a dangerous gamble to turn them back on, Jpn is simply too unstable a terrain for n00q_ular energy.
The 2 things they're known for , Earthquakes and Tsunami. I mean, of all places to use atomic energy. This is not the place.
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It's a good idea, but.
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The reason they're fighting to turn these back on, is because while the plants are shut down, all staff are still on the payroll. Tepco is currently essentially bankrupt. The company is held afloat through loans (from the bank). The average power plant has a staff of 700-1000 people, with an average salary of 100,000 a head, that's 70-100 MILLION $ for Every year the plant is in shutdown PER powerplant, NOT producing power.
Actually they recent bragged they made a profit last year.
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Actually they recent bragged they made a profit last year.
Right now, In Fukushima Highskoo.. On the ground they've detected 27,000 to 30,000 Becquerels of radioactivity per kilogram of soil.
BEFORE the Disaster, if Soil contained > 100 Becquerels, it had to be bagged and stored in a special facility. Now Jpn is allowing 8000 Becquerels/ kilo.
USA laws still maintains 100Becquerels/Kilo
Right up in Tokyo, Just normal building front lawn, they've detected 4000-5000 Becquerels/kilogram.
While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news), if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.
--Understanding Becquerels--
1 Becquerel is 1 decay / second.
8000 Becquerels/ kilo is 8000 decay per second, per Kilogram of soil.
Imagine having 8000 drops of rain falling on you PER second, Now instead of Rain, it's Radiation. :D
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While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news), if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.
Bailouts, side deals and compromises.
You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?
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While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news), if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.
Bailouts, side deals and compromises.
You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?
It's upsetting, Tp4 used to buy dat Weeaboo rice . but now.. only thailand..
I'd rather deal with illegal fertilizer than radiation .. Hrrm.. but I guess i haven't considered illegal fertilizers which are also radioactive..
Damnn... !!
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While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news), if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.
Bailouts, side deals and compromises.
You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?
It's upsetting, Tp4 used to buy dat Weeaboo rice . but now.. only thailand..
I'd rather deal with illegal fertilizer than radiation .. Hrrm.. but I guess i haven't considered illegal fertilizers which are also radioactive..
Damnn... !!
Buy that Geiger counter. It might good to have. Trust nothing and test everything. Actually buy two Geiger counters so you can make sure the first one isn't contaminated.
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Buy that Geiger counter. It might good to have. Trust nothing and test everything. Actually buy two Geiger counters so you can make sure the first one isn't contaminated.
That's actually precisely how the PROs do it. they have multiple meters to be sure.
But, Geiger counters will not detect the h0t Particles.
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The m0ar learnz bout n00q_ular p0wr, the more endearing is the term "Containment"..
Thoughts ? anyone find this word --alluring-- ?? Haz Tp4 finally achieves insane ??
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Yay...
Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.
https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054
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Yay...
Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.
https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054
:rolleyes: What a bunch of bastards.
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Yay...
Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.
https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054
Well that's just terrible.
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Have recently come across material which indicate n00q_ular detractors are commonly and relentlessly targeted/harassed by 3 letter agencies.
This thread will be locked to protect the general well-being of GH members.
Appreciate everyone's participation. One can not reason with the military industrial complex, in fact that is by LAW.
The main takeaway is that these are very bad people at the top, they can kill you for any reason, even for complaining too much about something like cleanup of waste that they left behind.
The finance of the situation works as follows. Price-Anderson Act, the Public pays for the plant, the insurance, and cleanup fund, the Corporation makes the profit, once the plant is exhausted, they ditch as much responsibility as they can again on the public. They make the money, we take all the risk.