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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:17:52

Title: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:17:52
Let's hear those predicitions.. !!
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:57:09
I predict that the next few weeks are going to be rough.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:06:13
I tried really hard to ignore politics the past few years and not let it affect me, but apparently that is impossible even for a socially reclusive hermit.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:23:23

not let it affect me


And just what is it that affects you more?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:33:00

not let it affect me


And just what is it that affects you more?

things that are directly within my bubble of influence
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:24:14
GDi,, this is the most boring thing to watch, it's slower than paint drying.   YET CAN NOT LOOK AWAY..

//Very Upset

//Out of Oreos

//STRESSSssss
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:26:44
These god damn swing states aren't swinging hard enough.. awrhiopgqh89p24y89pqg489p23hag5hoager;
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: ninjadoc on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:29:12
Fricking mess that is only going to get worse.
Paint dries quicker than these results will be finalized.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:32:44
Fricking mess that is only going to get worse.
Paint dries quicker than these results will be finalized.

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.... Tp4's gonna go out to buy some cigarettes.. smoke once or twice a year, this seems an appropriate moment. 
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:36:10
There's much better stuff to smoke than disgusting ciggies

Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:37:56
There's much better stuff to smoke than disgusting ciggies



Lies.. Cigarettes r da-best.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 03 November 2020, 21:55:46
Lies.. Cigarettes r da-best.

tp4 confirmed gross
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 November 2020, 22:30:06
So clearly the russn are haxn' us again.  Welp looks like m0ar trump.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 November 2020, 00:42:11
The fact that it is this close with the very clear evidence of recent sharp declines in social and monetary economics is very disturbing. That this many people desire instability. I don't care if the president is completely ineffectual or a lame duck, as long as they do not actively negatively impact my existence. It is really difficult to believe that everyone has not been suffering at least as much as I have this past year and does not desire immediate change.

It's just so ****ing weird to me to choose a side despite obvious evidence. I guess that is the power of being American, it is a choice.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: icrchi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 00:42:34
I just wanna grill clack for God's sake!
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 00:46:03
When we skimp on education.  People can't read, and this happens.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Wed, 04 November 2020, 00:49:40
There's much better stuff to smoke than disgusting ciggies
Lies.. Cigarettes r da-best.
little lung cancer in a convenient stick form, and the best part is that you share it with everyone around you
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 00:51:53
Michigan, Penns

Anyone ? yes no ? maybe ?

even GA, WI,  nail biters.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 November 2020, 01:00:26
Imagine coming home from work to find your house on fire and instead of calling the fire department you decide, "Let's just let it keep burning and see where this goes."
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 01:10:05
Assssssume biden gets dat Pennsylvania,   (he's from there, and expects to get it from the mail in)

Then he just needs one of the following.


Wisconson

Michigan

North Carolina

Georgia
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Wed, 04 November 2020, 01:34:13
you know that either way the "great" voters can vote for whoever they wish to, it is a bad idea for their career to vote for someone else but nothing prevent them from doing so, especially if there is a nice mansion or casino tied to voting for the wrong one...(as far as i read it is OK for a candidate to give those kinds of thing (forgot the word again) to great voters during elections and with Trump actively telling peoples to fraud vote)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 04 November 2020, 03:20:07
If Trump somehow gets vote-counting shut down - and that makes him stay in power then would be an illegitimate president regardless of what the uncounted votes would have said. A cheater, not a winner.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 04 November 2020, 04:34:14
If Trump somehow gets vote-counting shut down - and that makes him stay in power then would be an illegitimate president regardless of what the uncounted votes would have said. A cheater, not a winner.
That's illegal, isn't it?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 November 2020, 04:36:54
If Trump somehow gets vote-counting shut down - and that makes him stay in power then would be an illegitimate president regardless of what the uncounted votes would have said. A cheater, not a winner.
That's illegal, isn't it?

as if that matters any more
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Wed, 04 November 2020, 05:06:27
given how many illegal things trump seems to have done, one more one less, will not make a huge difference in the end, will it prisons for 50 or 100 years is not going to make a difference for him :) (i am joking, like everyone knows, he is above the law)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 08:13:27
Michikannn  Yeiiii Boiiii..
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 08:17:38
As long as Nevada doesn't flip back..
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 09:31:24
Nvada

Wiscson

Michik

N Caro

Georg

Most likely will get recounted during shenanigans.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 09:41:02
In theory,  if Russia wanted to do dat' hax,  they'd hack it so that the state they'd want to flip goes slightly to Biden,   THEN during recount, expose the hack as perpetrated by Iran,   Then boom, Drumph team claims victory as they hack the recount machine..  At least that's how Tp4 would stealz election.


recounts don't typically swing elections, but in this case, it very well could.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 11:10:55
Seriously, What is Pennsylvania doinz..  Comeeeoneoneoneone
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 11:30:37
is each ballot read by multiple people ? or is it just 1 dude per ballot ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:33:01
If Trump somehow gets vote-counting shut down - and that makes him stay in power then would be an illegitimate president regardless of what the uncounted votes would have said. A cheater, not a winner.
That's illegal, isn't it?

laws are more of a suggestion for politicians
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 17:08:47
NE 1 from Nvada ?   What's the climate ?  They gon' flip back o' firm Biden?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 17:31:35
How comz Biden didn' win Penns.   I thought everyone was like, -sure thing- this state.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 04 November 2020, 23:17:13
I bet they're letting all the hax fly tonight when everyone is tired. 
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 01:00:56
Looking @ Georgia.. almost there.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Thu, 05 November 2020, 01:02:01
go to sleep, and open your new president in the morning, like xmas :)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 01:04:58
go to sleep, and open your new president in the morning, like xmas :)

Yea, pretty tired,  gotta  be refreshed on the 7th to buy dat walmart monitor.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: chyros on Thu, 05 November 2020, 01:09:01
I can't believe it has come to this. I didn't think it'd ever get this bad in American politics.

I remember, almost 20 years ago, me and everyone I knew or ever spoke to thinking George W. Bush getting elected being the most ridiculous thing in history. Seems positively normal in hindsight.

Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 November 2020, 07:08:26

me and everyone I knew or ever spoke to thinking George W. Bush getting elected being the most ridiculous thing in history.


You were right, it was. But that was the fault of the Supreme Court interfering with an established process where they did not have jurisdiction.

Today it is different. Rashomon-like, gaslighting by the far right media ecosystem has created a huge and radicalized subset of American society that lives in bubble where facts, reality, science, logic, and reason not only do not exist, but are actually demonized.

Exit polls reported that 40% of respondents said that "the economy is doing well" even with millions of people out of work, thousands of businesses closed, tens of millions of evictions looming, and also tens of millions poised to lose their health care during an epidemic that is expanding by the day.

I finished this book last night, and strongly recommend it:  https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48806578-it-was-all-a-lie (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48806578-it-was-all-a-lie)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: jamster on Thu, 05 November 2020, 08:53:04
I've been watching this from the other side of the world- I've never paid attention to a US election before. It's just been totally depressing- that it could even be a close thing is just unfathomable to me. What's wrong with the country, and how as it come to this?

A minor sidetrack, I have been reading comments about Republican voters being against 'socialists/communists' getting it. What's with this crazy rhetoric? By world standards, American Democrats are pretty right wing already... there's no way the country is going to be even vaguely socialist anytime soon.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:08:00
I've been watching this from the other side of the world- I've never paid attention to a US election before. It's just been totally depressing- that it could even be a close thing is just unfathomable to me. What's wrong with the country, and how as it come to this?

A minor sidetrack, I have been reading comments about Republican voters being against 'socialists/communists' getting it. What's with this crazy rhetoric? By world standards, American Democrats are pretty right wing already... there's no way the country is going to be even vaguely socialist anytime soon.

Socialism doesn't exist anywhere except in small tribal human collectives.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:12:26
Why are US:ians so afraid of "socialism" anyway? Socialism exists in a broad spectrum, and you pick the things you want: it is not as if you would need to impose a totalitarian one-party state just because you have public libraries, trade unions and worker's unemployment insurance: ... oh wait, they already have those don't they.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:23:40
Georgia,


Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:33:43
Why are US:ians so afraid of "socialism" anyway? Socialism exists in a broad spectrum, and you pick the things you want: it is not as if you would need to impose a totalitarian one-party state just because you have public libraries, trade unions and worker's unemployment insurance: ... oh wait, they already have those don't they.
i think it dates back from the cold war, socialism = communism = bad, both side were pretty much dictatorship back then and propaganda stays in the mind of the populous for a long time, especially if some have something to gain from it... and well one small part of the population do have a lot to lose from socialism
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:34:51
i think it dates back from the cold war, socialism = communism = bad, both side were pretty much dictatorship back then and propaganda stays in the mind of the populous for a long time, especially if some have something to gain from it... and well one small part of the population do have a lot to lose from socialism

It doesn't date back to anything. The Plebs don't know what any of this stuff even is.

Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:41:40

It doesn't date back to anything. The Plebs don't know what any of this stuff even is.


yes but they know they should hate it because their parents and grand parents before them did. someone does not need to know what something is to hate it, look at dihydrogen monoxide, there is even peoples outright saying it should be banned while it is as bad for you as any water you drink.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:48:41
You were right, it was. But that was the fault of the Supreme Court interfering with an established process where they did not have jurisdiction.

The Supreme Court didn't decide that election, they only presided over whether there should be another recount in a disputed county and how that county should handle it. Later checks showed Gore lost that county regardless of how you counted them, Bush was actually correct in that instance. However, had Gore asked for a full state recount he would have actually won. Instead, Gore conceded the state giving Bush the win, not necessarily because he thought Bush won but because dragging it out even longer would have created a problem for a smooth transition of power not just for whoever won but also for the public. 

He was trying to avoid the situation we may be heading into now if Trump loses. He won't let it go and neither will his fans. Biden might, but should he if he wins?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:50:43
He was trying to avoid the situation we may be heading into now if Trump loses. He won't let it go and neither will his fans. Biden might, but should he if he wins?

In the event of civil war, What do ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 10:38:33
Comeon georgfggg
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Darthbaggins on Thu, 05 November 2020, 13:06:52
Georgia might be late since now we have to check if our mail-ins were counted or not, then contact about it as to why they were not - if they were not more than likely that's part of the few thousand ballots that never showed up to be counted.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 13:21:15
Georgia might be late since now we have to check if our mail-ins were counted or not, then contact about it as to why they were not - if they were not more than likely that's part of the few thousand ballots that never showed up to be counted.

Everyone check your ballots....  Dun' let  repoopblicans get away with it.


https://www.dailydot.com/debug/track-your-ballot-online/
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 13:39:55
JAJA COme onnnnnn
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 November 2020, 13:46:14

What's wrong with the country,


A plan was formulated in the late 1950s in the wake of Brown vs Board of Education, and a book named "The Calculus of Consent" was written by James McGill Buchanan and Gordon Tullock that laid out a road map for the plutocracy to use in dis-educating the proletariat by eviscerating the public education system, gaining control of the media to spread disinformation (bye bye Fairness Doctrine), and buying most or all of the members of one of the political parties to enact their desired legislation (no taxes on the wealthy).

This was not able to be realized (since it was so unpopular, that is, the public didn't want it (and besides, unpopular=anti-social)) until Reagan managed to meld religious fervor with those latent anti-governmental emotions being experienced by those who saw their world changing too fast for them to keep up with.

They could not or would not realize (and still don't) that the plutocrats were both the instigators and the beneficiaries of the collapse of our society.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 05 November 2020, 17:31:53
Why are US:ians so afraid of "socialism" anyway?

idiots who are totally blind to the mountains of propaganda shoved down their throats every day
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 November 2020, 18:12:56
omg... jajaa's doin' it.. omg... almost there..
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 05 November 2020, 22:00:37
Me in canada : join as spectator
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 05:30:47
w00t w00t/ ??
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 05:31:50
Penn might do it too ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 05:55:24
Trajectory looks gud'...

Now, For sure, they'll contest Georgia, but read somewhere, Penn doesn't allow it unless the difference is within certain margin ? something like that.  But the margin will be tight, so sigh....
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 10:02:20
Penn, yeeeeee...
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 11:41:55
Rumors all ober deep web,  the repooplicans gonna try hax on recounts ...
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 11:45:32
whcha'll think bout North Carolina ?  They gonna come straight o' no.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 06 November 2020, 14:15:09
I knew he would throw a tantrum and say it was rigged as soon as he started losing. Funny how he wasn't saying that when the election was ACTUALLY rigged.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 14:57:59
I knew he would throw a tantrum and say it was rigged as soon as he started losing. Funny how he wasn't saying that when the election was ACTUALLY rigged.


what time period are you saying was, --Actually-- rigged ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 06 November 2020, 15:11:57
I knew he would throw a tantrum and say it was rigged as soon as he started losing. Funny how he wasn't saying that when the election was ACTUALLY rigged.


what time period are you saying was, --Actually-- rigged ?


sorry sorry... TAMPERED with. Got to terminology correct these days or you'll get cancelled.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 15:25:00
sorry sorry... TAMPERED with. Got to terminology correct these days or you'll get cancelled.

NT drinkn' too much trumpjuice lately. kekeke

Watchn' fox news makes me so mad... Then realized, I see, this is for people who can't or won't read.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 16:53:50
Does ne1 think trump can still win ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 06 November 2020, 17:43:54
Not in a real universe where facts and reason rule, but there are plenty of cheats, tricks, and judicial tomfoolery that could be employed. The Founders were careful to build safeguards into the Constitution, but they never imagined a corrupt President, a corrupt Senate, and a corrupt Attorney General/Department of Justice all at the same time.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 November 2020, 18:18:16
He would have to flip 4 different states..   I think 2 is possible, but not 4.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Sat, 07 November 2020, 04:59:01
Not in a real universe where facts and reason rule, but there are plenty of cheats, tricks, and judicial tomfoolery that could be employed. The Founders were careful to build safeguards into the Constitution, but they never imagined a corrupt President, a corrupt Senate, and a corrupt Attorney General/Department of Justice all at the same time.
they seemed to have built in loopholes to facilitate it, so i dunno if they never imagined it or just wanted it, none of them were saints, pretty far from it actually
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 07:42:04
Not in a real universe where facts and reason rule, but there are plenty of cheats, tricks, and judicial tomfoolery that could be employed. The Founders were careful to build safeguards into the Constitution, but they never imagined a corrupt President, a corrupt Senate, and a corrupt Attorney General/Department of Justice all at the same time.
they seemed to have built in loopholes to facilitate it, so i dunno if they never imagined it or just wanted it, none of them were saints, pretty far from it actually

They're all Hughmahnnn that's the biggest problem.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 07 November 2020, 08:17:54

i dunno if they never imagined it


Remember that the Constitution was written before the Industrial Revolution when the world was very different.

The other important point that is consistently forgotten is that the country was just emerging from a protracted war in which a tiny pitiful band of farmers had beaten back what was arguably the most powerful nation in the world. That pinnacle of unity (in spite of the rancor between the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans) has never been matched and has continued to deteriorate ever since. The only other time that we came together to anything remotely like that degree was during World War 2.

The population was deeply engaged and involved for fear that their sacrifice would be for naught. The Founding Fathers failed to imagine that a day would come when the general population would disengage from its own governance and that nearly half of eligible voters would not even bother to exercise their primary civil privilege and obligation.

In recent years, it was the evil ones who took a sledge hammer to the concept of "We the People" and installed a wedge between a people and its government. With their media conglomerate behind them they have worked hard for nearly 4 decades to dis-educate millions of people to believe that something something could protect the needs of the people better than their government could.
 

Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 09:09:13

i dunno if they never imagined it


Remember that the Constitution was written before the Industrial Revolution when the world was very different.

The other important point that is consistently forgotten is that the country was just emerging from a protracted war in which a tiny pitiful band of farmers had beaten back what was arguably the most powerful nation in the world. That pinnacle of unity (in spite of the rancor between the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans) has never been matched and has continued to deteriorate ever since. The only other time that we came together to anything remotely like that degree was during World War 2.

The population was deeply engaged and involved for fear that their sacrifice would be for naught. The Founding Fathers failed to imagine that a day would come when the general population would disengage from its own governance and that nearly half of eligible voters would not even bother to exercise their primary civil privilege and obligation.

In recent years, it was the evil ones who took a sledge hammer to the concept of "We the People" and installed a wedge between a people and its government. With their media conglomerate behind them they have worked hard for nearly 4 decades to dis-educate millions of people to believe that something something could protect the needs of the people better than their government could.

That's an overwhelmingly nationalistic perspective.

Given the average lower education rate of < Farmers + general population > in < 1765 > ,   The Majority 99%+ wouldn't have truly understood what they were fighting for or WHY.   At that point in time they were probably even LESS informed than modern Trump Voters, carrying on their lives identically not knowing the consequence of their political lean. They were the Sheeple of Sheeple back then..  Hence the Slavery and Wife-beating.

You can't describe general america <back then>  as intelligent revolutionaries, maybe that reflects the few educated leaders.

The Founding Fathers were all mostly Asshat Racist Rapist Slave Owners.  JUST LIKE our leaders TODAY, Democrat + Republican.

Bernie Sanders is 1 in a million, and They NEVER get elected.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 07 November 2020, 10:19:58

The Majority 99%+ wouldn't have truly understood what they were fighting for or WHY.


You are saying that very poor and very hard-working people were willing to put their lives, families, and future security on the line for no real discernible reason?

I don't think so. They understood full well that they were fighting to have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

That, unfortunately, is what the plutocrats want their sheep to lose sight of nowadays.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 10:54:14

The Majority 99%+ wouldn't have truly understood what they were fighting for or WHY.


You are saying that very poor and very hard-working people were willing to put their lives, families, and future security on the line for no real discernible reason?

I don't think so. They understood full well that they were fighting to have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

What do TRUMP voters Get for their support.  They get MAJOR risk to their Lives via the virus,  They get a Dramatically reduced and ineffective Stimulus bill,  Reduced Social Services.     And clearly there're 70 Million of this idiocy in the year 2020. A world w/ fiber optics connecting every nation, Every book worth reading available for free, every advantage no single human can exhaust.

The general population are Sheeple, and it's always been that way.

The majority of soldiers don't even understand what death is, or of its high probability. They're brainwashed to feel invincible through ignorance training, to ignore facts and follow orders. If soldiers were smarter, they'd quit.   This is the same situation with Cops, why do so many bigots sign up,   It's not JUST BECAUSE they're bigots,  they're Bigots because they're stupid, courtesy of our public education system, OWNED and operated by Capitalism, the modern slave owners. 

What exactly did we send our bravest to die for in Iraq,  what did all those civilians we killed die for ?

The Whims of Capitalism.



If Everyone was as AWARE as you say,  how could any of this stuff happen.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Sat, 07 November 2020, 12:06:09
Remember that the Constitution was written before the Industrial Revolution when the world was very different.

The other important point that is consistently forgotten is that the country was just emerging from a protracted war in which a tiny pitiful band of farmers had beaten back what was arguably the most powerful nation in the world. That pinnacle of unity (in spite of the rancor between the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans) has never been matched and has continued to deteriorate ever since. The only other time that we came together to anything remotely like that degree was during World War 2.
i am sorry to pop your little patriotic bubble but the founding fathers were also slavers and wealthy men in a see of uneducated farmers... look at it, it has not actually changed that much has it? and that war was not fought only by those farmers they had outside help too.
The population was deeply engaged and involved for fear that their sacrifice would be for naught. The Founding Fathers failed to imagine that a day would come when the general population would disengage from its own governance and that nearly half of eligible voters would not even bother to exercise their primary civil privilege and obligation.
the only problem is that the voting system used in the US is built to disengage peoples from the governance, it adds a useless and detrimental layer to the an election processes that is already democratic to the minimum
In recent years, it was the evil ones who took a sledge hammer to the concept of "We the People" and installed a wedge between a people and its government. With their media conglomerate behind them they have worked hard for nearly 4 decades to dis-educate millions of people to believe that something something could protect the needs of the people better than their government could.
the dis-education predates all of that by a very long margins, there exists old documents discussing that, although i am a bit too lazy to search today, the government around the industrial did not want educated peoples that may disobey or look at the risk and refuse to work in those conditions, they wanted mindless workers, and so education was cut back and propagandized...
When you look at neither with patriotism tainted glasses the USSR and the USA looks remarkably similar, just one at the end had a leader that slipped up and gave away to the peoples, and the peoples took taste and the USSR failed, the current USA is just a culmination of what short minded capitalist did to get their pot of gold out of it and did not care for the next one, founding fathers included.

Of course you do not learn that in school, i am not even sure you can get access to books discussing that in the US, like books about colonialist wars in France are hard to find and sometime outright censored (how in this day and age is it possible that a book talking about the history of a country be forbidden to import or a film to watch...) democracy was killed long ago, it never really existed to start.

all and all patriotism is bad, it dehumanize the rest of the world and make you very short sighted, we should all look at the whole world and not US or France or England, patriotism does not have a place in a world with pandemics and food shortages. actually as do armies, Bush's crusades in Iraq could not have existed without mindless patriotism.

ps: maybe not my greatest idea to talk politics with about 3 hours of sleep in the last 2 nights, but hey hope it at least entertains someone.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 07 November 2020, 12:19:13
All the commentators are saying that Trump will remain the most powerful person in the Republican Party and that he will shape and steer it in the future.

I disagree completely, I think that once out of power he will become toxic and no one will want to have anything to do with him. And besides, he will spend the remainder of his life in court (unless he flees the country, which would be the wiser option). He came into office with 5000 lawsuits against him and that number will certainly swell.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 12:39:44


The CIA would sooner snip trump themselves than let SOME OTHER country get hold of him.  Russia already has tremendous leverage over american politics through the kompromat built on the Epst31n debacle.

If they capture drumph, welp, get fit, cuz those lenin statues won't build themselves.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Sat, 07 November 2020, 20:08:23
'Ol Joey B certainly has his work cut out for him

a pandemic in full-swing, an economic crises, an entire nation angry and at each other's throats, the reputation of a country to repair, and countless blatant corruption that has been allowed to fester to cut off and begin treatment for
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 20:10:31
They just broadcasted the democrat convention,   where's the repooplican convention ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 November 2020, 20:29:16
The Most important takeaway from the Biden acceptence speech.

Ya'll see those blue lights,  They is Dronez..  AI was there. 

AI for President. 2028


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Sat, 07 November 2020, 20:59:04

:)) the drones reminded me of that Spider Man movie
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: chyros on Sun, 08 November 2020, 04:10:05
Does ne1 think trump can still win ?
He shouldn't have won last time either, but then again, it's not a democracy, is it? :p
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 08 November 2020, 14:53:40
Woah... didn't notice this before, Biden is Super Old... 77yrs.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 08 November 2020, 16:23:20
Woah... didn't notice this before, Biden is Super Old... 77yrs.
Yes, Biden has the record for oldest president at the start of his presidency.
The previous oldest president at his inauguration was Trump, who was 70, beating Ronald Reagan's age at his first inauguration by about four months. Trump is 74 now, and Reagan was almost 78 y/o at the end of his second term.

John McCain would have been 72 y/o had he won against Obama in 2008. I remember the discussion about his age back then, about the risk that he could die and pass the presidency to Sarah Palin (the horror ...)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 08 November 2020, 16:55:51
Kamala Harris as president.. she should be overall effective, buhhhhh.... it'd almost be impossible for her to be re-elected.  as we now know 70million americans are still racist as ff.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 08 November 2020, 17:30:48
Kamala Harris as president.. she should be overall effective, buhhhhh.... it'd almost be impossible for her to be re-elected.  as we now know 70million americans are still racist as ff.

that is not the correct takeaway from the last 4 years

all Trump supporters ≠ racist

stereotyping outlooks like that only add kindling to the fire
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 08 November 2020, 18:24:42
that is not the correct takeaway from the last 4 years

all Trump supporters ≠ racist

stereotyping outlooks like that only add kindling to the fire

It's not a case of assigning blame.

Racism is a product of ignorance/ economic disadvantage. If a person has got nothing else, he is merely what he is, if all he has is an identity, then that is all he could be charged to hold dear and protect. From there it's a stones throw from radical nationalism.

I don't believe all trump voters are racists,  but they are witless enough to vote for trump. That mental gap endangers humanity.

Large collective ignorance may well be what dooms this planet.

The exponentially compounding error in the pursuit of unchecked hedonism, tribal violence, and momentary trinkets.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: chyros on Mon, 09 November 2020, 02:45:28
Kamala Harris as president.. she should be overall effective, buhhhhh.... it'd almost be impossible for her to be re-elected.  as we now know 70million americans are still racist as ff.

that is not the correct takeaway from the last 4 years

all Trump supporters ≠ racist

stereotyping outlooks like that only add kindling to the fire
What IS the correct takeaway from the last 4 years, actually? I'm genuinely curious about this.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Mon, 09 November 2020, 03:10:57
Kamala Harris as president.. she should be overall effective, buhhhhh.... it'd almost be impossible for her to be re-elected.  as we now know 70million americans are still racist as ff.

that is not the correct takeaway from the last 4 years

all Trump supporters ≠ racist

stereotyping outlooks like that only add kindling to the fire
What IS the correct takeaway from the last 4 years, actually? I'm genuinely curious about this.
reality tv stars makes for bad presidents? richer != better? US education system is so ****ed that peoples are ready to believe anything someone who can't make a full sentence says? there is a lot to take away, not much we did not know already but the experience proved the theory :)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 09 November 2020, 03:15:30
Kamala Harris as president.. she should be overall effective, buhhhhh.... it'd almost be impossible for her to be re-elected.  as we now know 70million americans are still racist as ff.

that is not the correct takeaway from the last 4 years

all Trump supporters ≠ racist

stereotyping outlooks like that only add kindling to the fire
What IS the correct takeaway from the last 4 years, actually? I'm genuinely curious about this.

Political leaders need political experience? The system can be bought? Corruption does not need to be hidden for you to get away with it?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: suicidal_orange on Mon, 09 November 2020, 03:56:57
My takeaway is that given all the time and resources in the world the USA can't make a trustworthy voting system.  If it takes days to 'count' anyway you could take the whole thing offline and phone in totals with authorisation codes with multiple people taking multiple copies to filter typos - no more 'Russians'.  While imperfect that took me all of 30 seconds...

Next filter requests for postal votes against the death register so dead 130 year olds can't vote.  This could be used against someone for revenge so no punishment for attempted fraud, but no ballot in the post either.  This saves money on paper and postage as well as making the vote more accurate.

I don't have any legal suggestions for how to get young, uncorrupted, candidates to represent the two big parties most of you blindly vote for based on ancient history and stereotypes.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 09 November 2020, 04:04:49
My takeaway is that given all the time and resources in the world the USA can't make a trustworthy voting system.

yeah that's the way they want it
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: chyros on Mon, 09 November 2020, 05:24:35
Not trying to be a **** or anything, guys, but I think these were pretty well-known things before Trump got elected :p . I don't see how Trump getting elected did NOT highlight that there is a severe problem with racism in the US, though. First the US elects a highly erudite, intellectual, charismatic man of colour to run the country, and then, seemingly out of spite, and just to make a statement, the next one to get elected is the dumbest, stupidest, most intellectually and morally bankrupt, deluded, ridiculous, self-absorbed rich-boy whiteguy idiot you could possibly find. Even the rednecks, who should absolutely hate a spoilt, urbane, vain, hypocrite like Trump voted for him in droves. If it's not out of sheer racism, then what else? It's not like he has any points or politics.

Admittedly I wouldn't have thought Biden is particularly ideal either....
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Mon, 09 November 2020, 06:08:36
Not trying to be a **** or anything, guys, but I think these were pretty well-known things before Trump got elected :p . I don't see how Trump getting elected did NOT highlight that there is a severe problem with racism in the US, though. First the US elects a highly erudite, intellectual, charismatic man of colour to run the country, and then, seemingly out of spite, and just to make a statement, the next one to get elected is the dumbest, stupidest, most intellectually and morally bankrupt, deluded, ridiculous, self-absorbed rich-boy whiteguy idiot you could possibly find. Even the rednecks, who should absolutely hate a spoilt, urbane, vain, hypocrite like Trump voted for him in droves. If it's not out of sheer racism, then what else? It's not like he has any points or politics.

Admittedly I wouldn't have thought Biden is particularly ideal either....
well i think it was part sexism and part 2 bad possible choices last time, Clinton was not great either pretty much wanting to create a 3rd world war (although it would have been great of the US economy, it being solely based on the war machine) this time it is just peoples hate being wrong and trump showed them that even while completely wrong you can still stubbornly be right and that is something the basic joe smoe can get behind.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 09 November 2020, 07:54:55

First the US elects a highly erudite, intellectual, charismatic man of colour to run the country, and then, seemingly out of spite, and just to make a statement, the next one to get elected is the dumbest, stupidest, most intellectually and morally bankrupt, deluded, ridiculous, self-absorbed rich-boy whiteguy idiot you could possibly find.


That cycle is not new. Carter-Reagan, Clinton-Bush, it keeps happening along with economic cycles partially in synch with it.

The underlying takeaway is that we are crippled by the Constitution. Make no mistake, I think that, in general, the Constitution is one of the most brilliant documents that the human race has ever produced, and a pinnacle accomplishment of the Age of Enlightenment.

That said, it was written before the Industrial Revolution and fails to address many of the realities of modern life: human rights, instantaneous communication, rapid transportation, industry, and most importantly, the dramatic "shrinking" of the space on this planet. The Constitution therefore created a significantly decentralized government with states carrying almost all of the weight, and practically ignoring our relationship to the rest of the world.

We are screwed until the Constitution is heavily amended to address the realities of the modern world, as Justice Steven Breyer said: "It has become threadbare and needs to be stitched up in many places."

Republicans are desperate to load the federal judicial system with "constructionists" who demand that the Constitution be interpreted precisely by the words in which it was written. The newest justice has even expressed her belief that some amendments, which by definition become part of the Constitution and can directly contradict and supersede provisions of the original, are "illegitimate" which is patently absurd but common on the Radical Right.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 09 November 2020, 08:26:48
All I can keep thinking is how easy it is to be cruel and misinformed.  How easy it is to tell someone to duck off. How easy it is to tell someone you hope they die.  How easy it is to share a headline that you never check to verify if true. 

It seems to me that standing up against being lazy and taking this easy approach to our fellow humans should be top priority.  We all know what hatred feels like.  Giving in to hatred is just too damn easy in the modern world.  It takes time and energy to have empathy and patience.

I’m proud to be a voter who removed Donald Trump from office.  We have to aspire to hold up the best of us as a representative for our country.  I don’t care which side of the aisle you come from. 
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Mon, 09 November 2020, 09:39:14

First the US elects a highly erudite, intellectual, charismatic man of colour to run the country, and then, seemingly out of spite, and just to make a statement, the next one to get elected is the dumbest, stupidest, most intellectually and morally bankrupt, deluded, ridiculous, self-absorbed rich-boy whiteguy idiot you could possibly find.


That cycle is not new. Carter-Reagan, Clinton-Bush, it keeps happening along with economic cycles partially in synch with it.

The underlying takeaway is that we are crippled by the Constitution. Make no mistake, I think that, in general, the Constitution is one of the most brilliant documents that the human race has ever produced, and a pinnacle accomplishment of the Age of Enlightenment.

That said, it was written before the Industrial Revolution and fails to address many of the realities of modern life: human rights, instantaneous communication, rapid transportation, industry, and most importantly, the dramatic "shrinking" of the space on this planet. The Constitution therefore created a significantly decentralized government with states carrying almost all of the weight, and practically ignoring our relationship to the rest of the world.

We are screwed until the Constitution is heavily amended to address the realities of the modern world, as Justice Steven Breyer said: "It has become threadbare and needs to be stitched up in many places."

Republicans are desperate to load the federal judicial system with "constructionists" who demand that the Constitution be interpreted precisely by the words in which it was written. The newest justice has even expressed her belief that some amendments, which by definition become part of the Constitution and can directly contradict and supersede provisions of the original, are "illegitimate" which is patently absurd but common on the Radical Right.
you and the constitution is like the pope with the bible, both are incredibly flawed and need rework to be of any use today, both were made in an old time to keep a tight control over uneducated masses, and neither took into account that maybe one day some peoples would start to questions, and exploit its flaws, now we are there, with a completely obsolete text, hailed as sacred by some, used to dictate how one of the most powerful country in the world works...
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 09 November 2020, 10:24:01

maybe one day some peoples would start to questions


As usual, your response is 10% precisely correct and 90% falsely twisted and out of context. Your profile does not reveal where you live, but my guess is that your own government was created with at least some reliance on the US Constitution, the archetypal structure for a human democracy in the modern world. You would be hard pressed to find any similar document from the 1700s which has stood the test of time as well, flaws and all.

And in stark contrast, unlike any flavor of Bible, the Constitution does expect and account for the need to amend it, even though one of its greatest flaws is that it made the amendment process too cumbersome.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Tue, 10 November 2020, 01:28:44
maybe one day some peoples would start to questions
As usual, your response is 10% precisely correct and 90% falsely twisted and out of context. Your profile does not reveal where you live, but my guess is that your own government was created with at least some reliance on the US Constitution, the archetypal structure for a human democracy in the modern world. You would be hard pressed to find any similar document from the 1700s which has stood the test of time as well, flaws and all.

And in stark contrast, unlike any flavor of Bible, the Constitution does expect and account for the need to amend it, even though one of its greatest flaws is that it made the amendment process too cumbersome.
as i hint with azerty (and said in quite a few places) i live in France so no, the US constitution was actually based on the 1st french constitution, although we are now at the 5th because, well all 5 are ****ed in their own ways, and the bible was "amended" too, quite a bit.
your patriotism blinds you, not that many non US invaded countries based their constitutions on yours, true there are similarities but then all democracy should try to have a few subsets of the same rules (power to the peoples and human rights and all that) and we now have the proof that now the US constitution did not stand the test of time, look at the state of your politics, and this one looks to have done a bit better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen (1789 vs 1788, not too long after, and both based on the same original text).
and i used the bible to compare your and other patriot's fanaticism towards the constitution, it has become a religious icon to many in the US, i would not be surprised if peoples get shot because the put the constitution into question, like peoples got killed in various ways for questioning sacred texts in the middle ages. i guess that years and years of patriotic propaganda will not make for an easy time thinking outside of that bubble though...
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 10 November 2020, 07:45:19
The right-wing propaganda bubble is anti-patriotic.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: bliss on Tue, 10 November 2020, 11:13:07
Watching events unfold from across the pond, let me share my perspective.

I am taking the COVID angle because I think this was a major incentive for Biden supporters.

I've got friends in Florida (no Trump fanboys), who tell me they are actually worried what Biden will enact concerning COVID. I hear that restaurants and bars are well attended in FL, while few patrons are wearing masks. I thought, wait a minute, how does this work for them? This led me to research the Governor a bit: See, in Florida, I hear people are very happy with Ron DeSantis (R), who does everything to keep businesses open and running. Skimming DeSantis' Twitter, I found some interesting tweets:

1 Dr. Martin Kulldorff Discusses the Efficacy of Lockdowns During the COVID-19 Pandemic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktdzcx3crW0
takeaway: lockdowns not a silver bullet

2 COVID survival rates by age group:
0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%
source: CDC via Ron DeSantis Twitter, Sep 23

^ To be honest, I have never seen these numbers before and they let me relax quite a bit. Accordingly, in FL the risk group of the elderly receives special attention. And it follows that closing schools makes zero sense, happening in Europe (as long as you separate pupils and their grand parents)

My point is, FL is doing fine, with minimum restricitions for the populace, without lockdowns.

So America is headed for the same 1984-style repression scheme that is already in place here in Europe (writing this out of a l/d), just to get rid of The Donald? I thought personal freedom was valued much higher ... say hello to curfew passes and goodbye to coupling opportunities!

Meanwhile Biden can't even enforce his precious COVID rules on his own friggin podium
(https://i.imgur.com/VVGkI4E.jpg)

And finally, I am in a selfish way happy with his election (fraudulent or not) because my shares are soaring again... thank you very much!
Good luck to us all...
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 10 November 2020, 12:12:31
I don't think the situation with COVID19 is so simple. There are multiple strains going around, some more contagious than others and some more lethal than others.

The idea of having lockdowns and wearing masks comes originally from east Asia where those measures had been effective in curbing the spread of SARS back in 2003 and 2017. Because of their experience the authorities had been able to respond quickly. These countries also have a custom of wearing a mask if you are sick, so cheap masks have been available to purchase everywhere, as well as a tradition of trusting authority and doing what they are told.
Over there, it has paid off. Japan has 1840 deaths out of 125,960,000 people, South Korea has 485 and Taiwan has 7 (SEVEN!!).

Florida has 17179 deaths. 7.3 times as many as those countries, with a tenth of the population, and infection rates are rising.
That's 38% more per capita than over here in Sweden, where people also don't wear masks, and which also never had any substantial lockdown. Infection rates are rising here too.

And BTW, I watched part of Biden's speech on the news. Biden had worn his mask to the podium, and had taken it off there.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 10 November 2020, 20:02:27
Political Coup ?

Is it happening ? thoughts ?
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 11 November 2020, 05:04:12
I suspect McConnell has some serious back room discussions happening right about now.
Give the system time to work, if that fails keep faith, our military swears an oath to protect against enemies both foreign and domestic. Taking out a few generals at the pentagon won't change that.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 11 November 2020, 09:49:05
I suspect McConnell has some serious back room discussions happening right about now.
Give the system time to work, if that fails keep faith, our military swears an oath to protect against enemies both foreign and domestic. Taking out a few generals at the pentagon won't change that.

The pentagon is overwhelmingly repooplican'ts though.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 11 November 2020, 11:52:54
A military coup in the US in this age would be really bad. I don't see it happening, but then I didn't think a reality star would win the presidency. Doubtful these guys would risk their 50year careers for a crybaby, but again there could be ulterior motives.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: yui on Thu, 12 November 2020, 01:27:38
i can tell you for free that a military coup in the US would not make anyone in power there look any better from the outside, actually likely much worse, but hey right now everything is possible, nothing can surprise me anymore, i think with the exception maybe of tp mellowing out.
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:38:41
A military coup in the US in this age would be really bad. I don't see it happening, but then I didn't think a reality star would win the presidency. Doubtful these guys would risk their 50year careers for a crybaby, but again there could be ulterior motives.

lol they're all like 75 and rich and have committed to destroying the earth as we know it, what the **** do they care? they all got it made in the shade for life
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 12 November 2020, 08:48:10
i can tell you for free that a military coup in the US would not make anyone in power there look any better from the outside, actually likely much worse, but hey right now everything is possible, nothing can surprise me anymore, i think with the exception maybe of tp mellowing out.

(https://i.imgur.com/8nMJLbp.gif)
Title: Re: Election 2020
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 12 November 2020, 08:58:05
lol they're all like 75 and CORRUPT and have committed to destroying the earth as we know it, what the **** do they care? they all got it made in the shade for life

FTFY,    Humans are really ****ty AIs, eventually, they hit core-corruption and need to be powered down.