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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:06:01

Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:06:01
So I'm thinking of making some crazy awesome layouts, however I'd like to prototype them before I get PCBs manufactured, I was thinking of making some kind of temporary plates to attach the switches to, however I'm not sure what to make a plate out of, I was thinking cardboard, but I don't think it'd be nearly strong enough to hold a bunch of switches together, or be as manageable to get the proper cuts to fit a MX switch.

guys. ideas. pls :)

I made a video for you guys!

Title: Re: Prototyping layouts?
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:32:36
ok guys, I broke my own suggestion.

I'm already working with someone to get a PCB of this ASAP :))

(http://i.imgur.com/9cEhF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JsR1a.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/a9QAj.jpg)

If that is not, the cutest board, I've ever seen.

Oh also, changed topic title, this thread is about to go craycray.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:34:35
you crazy son
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:36:43
you crazy son

crazy... OR BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

Also, can you help me get a non-cardboard plate :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:37:50
What the hell is going on around here...!? I'd probably still buy one just for the heck of it. Have them make one for me!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inlikeflynn on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:39:12
you better be drunk son to make such a thing
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: whiskerBox on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:42:13
So can you elaborate on what the keys are, I mean like what is what. I am confused but intrigued.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:43:39
It looks like it's all alpha keys, with mods at the bottom, probably a key for space, and other stuff. What kind of layers are we looking at?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:44:43
What the hell is going on around here...!? I'd probably still buy one just for the heck of it. Have them make one for me!

dem 60% boards too stronk, I need something that'll fit in my pocket :p

you better be drunk son to make such a thing

I swear I'm not officer drunk.

But from the look of those bare switches, It looks like I was cutting these little squares drunk.

I've been wanting something like this for a LONG time.  I know I will get tea bagged but I'm not excited by GH60, K-Mac, Phantom but I am excited by this!

I will wield a soldering iron for this!

Oh dante, just wait until the final designs are revealed. The amazing layout is only 1/3 the surprise :eek:
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:46:24
So can you elaborate on what the keys are, I mean like what is what. I am confused but intrigued.

yes, here's the layout when I designed it at work today

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i54v6g2m9wimssv/2012-12-31%2013.37.39.jpg

It looks like it's all alpha keys, with mods at the bottom, probably a key for space, and other stuff. What kind of layers are we looking at?

yep, pure alpha keys with mods at the bottom, the way I'm envisioning it, I'll have three layers overall, one of them focusing numbers, one focusing symbols.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:49:15
/me thinks Kmiller is crazy... :P Good luck with it!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:49:54
How are you going to do the spacebar? Getting a custom convexed cap is pretty expensive, but if you use modifier keys as the spacebar, they're concaved so it'll feel pretty sharp for your thumb.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: JPG on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:53:03
How are you going to do the spacebar? Getting a custom convexed cap is pretty expensive, but if you use modifier keys as the spacebar, they're concaved so it'll feel pretty sharp for your thumb.

Tape your thumb, you'll be ok :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:54:11
With such a small layout, I don't think having more than one alt, ctrl, or super would be necessary. Maybe we should make those 1.25x on the left, have a 1.5x for the space, and have a couple 1x on the right for things that a little more common, like ? and @.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:55:31
/me thinks Kmiller is crazy... :P Good luck with it!

no reason to think. I am crazy

How are you going to do the spacebar? Getting a custom convexed cap is pretty expensive, but if you use modifier keys as the spacebar, they're concaved so it'll feel pretty sharp for your thumb.

lookit the stickynote i posted. My right thumb sits PERFECTLY on one of the 1.25 mods, the rest are there for show.

As for sharpness, I'm just using a 1.25 cherry mod and it's pretty alright for my fake typing I've done on it, I'll cover that hurdle when the time comes :D

how about a 1x1 or 1x1.25 that is mounted on a track and can be slid back and forth and on an angle for individual tastes?

this is kmiller8's layout, not lets-appeal-to-everyone layout :P

I plan on the entire bottom row being 100% customizable so you can put however many switches as spacebar as your little heart desires. Assuming I mass produce something like this.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:58:54
With such a small layout, I don't think having more than one alt, ctrl, or super would be necessary. Maybe we should make those 1.25x on the left, have a 1.5x for the space, and have a couple 1x on the right for things that a little more common, like ? and @.

Yeah, I'm not 100% on the bottom row right now, I kinda like the full 1.25 mods with one or two 1x on the far right side, but this is just a piece of cardboard with a few MX switches shoved in it, nothing is solid right now. Some things I need to work on now, is getting some better ideas of what the layers would pertain. But for that I'd really like to wire all this up to a controller, and just see what I don't like about the layout, before deciding which characters/symbols need to be put on the main layer, and which switches need to be reduced to  a smaller size.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 31 December 2012, 23:58:56
I'd have no problem providing a plate if you provide a dwg for my laser guy


happy new years to all (bourbon is good son ^____________^ )
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Acetrak on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:00:05
You white boy crazy
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:01:30
Would you be open to doing an Alps version?  It will then be super easy to use older keys / order from SP.

What exactly can I do to help in this project?  Anything?

Hmm.... that would be interesting to do an ALPS version.  I'm just chugging along slowly, one piece of the project at a time, I plan on attempting to do some PCB layouts soon, but as it stands right now, this project is pure Cherry MX :( but I will definitely consider an ALPS PCB
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:03:33
I'd have no problem providing a plate if you provide a dwg for my laser guy


happy new years to all (bourbon is good son ^____________^ )

I realize now, that my current board vision will not be able to utilize a plate, and all the switches will have to be PCB mount, but that's all I'm saying for now, it shouldn't be more than a week for me to finalize the rest of the project and do the great reveal :)

You white boy crazy

i'm not crazy, you're just sane!!!!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:10:03
If you need a plate let me know, if not, that's fine too ^__^


Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:10:36
Maybe we should just have two keys: one Fn and one key with 105 layers!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:13:12
Maybe we should just have two keys: one Fn and one key with 105 layers!

already been done :(

Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: razorsharpgears on Tue, 01 January 2013, 00:24:23
^LOL
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Glod on Tue, 01 January 2013, 02:45:09
It would be a unique thing to own if working and functional.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:15:00
Here is my idea. It uses a 4x12 matrix and standard modifiers you can easily obtain.

(http://i.imgur.com/TTsPY.png)


And a slightly smaller version. Might have difficulty finding a 1.25 Caps Lock key in that profile...

(http://i.imgur.com/d9Nbq.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:14:14
I made a video for you guys!

Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: razorsharpgears on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:18:58
Interestingly enough, you are right. I only ever use my right thumb to hit the spacebar.
Mind=Blown
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:34:32
Left thumb only for me


you fail
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:38:26
I would think it'll have a programmable pcb, too.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:52:59
I would think it'll have a programmable pcb, too.
^
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: razorsharpgears on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:53:28
Left thumb only for me


you fail
You sir must be left handed then :O
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:56:28
Left thumb only for me


you fail
You sir must be left handed then :O

Nopeski, right handed

this really isn't an issue since it should be programmable anyways. kmiller, have you seen 7bits 40% board?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Magnusian on Tue, 01 January 2013, 15:57:14
Right index for me.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:45:55
this really isn't an issue since it should be programmable anyways. kmiller, have you seen 7bits 40% board?

I saw it yesterday, after people were spamming me in IRC saying I stole his design :/
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:48:14
this really isn't an issue since it should be programmable anyways. kmiller, have you seen 7bits 40% board?

I saw it yesterday, after people were spamming me in IRC saying I stole his design :/

It's a similar idea (smaller than 60% board), but didn't 7bit's have a 4.5 unit spacebar? (IIRC)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: precarious on Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:50:53
Left thumb only for me


you fail
You sir must be left handed then :O

1. right handed
2. use left thumb
3. left hand is more stationary, causing it to be more rationally defensible to use the left thumb
4. world class typing champion

i think that about settles it
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:52:25
So I don't see why you would need two Fn keys. What we need is something like Fn+Backspace to be Numlock which will allow you to type on the numpad layer, and then Fn+Backspace to turn it off. Then you only need one Fn key.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: razorsharpgears on Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:56:07
Left thumb only for me


you fail
You sir must be left handed then :O

1. right handed
2. use left thumb
3. left hand is more stationary, causing it to be more rationally defensible to use the left thumb
4. world class typing champion

i think that about settles it

Okay, okay... you win :3
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 17:13:38
So I don't see why you would need two Fn keys. What we need is something like Fn+Backspace to be Numlock which will allow you to type on the numpad layer, and then Fn+Backspace to turn it off. Then you only need one Fn key.

That idea. I like it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 01 January 2013, 18:31:07
I'd have no problem providing a plate if you provide a dwg for my laser guy


happy new years to all (bourbon is good son ^____________^ )

Single malts are also good!

I am interested in a single plate based on the GH60. Is that do-able?

Thanks and happy new year,

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 01 January 2013, 18:52:08
this really isn't an issue since it should be programmable anyways. kmiller, have you seen 7bits 40% board?

I saw it yesterday, after people were spamming me in IRC saying I stole his design :/
Yew waz a bit cray cray. I didn't say you stole it though, that was Flynn!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 01 January 2013, 19:54:51
How are you going to do the spacebar? Getting a custom convexed cap is pretty expensive, but if you use modifier keys as the spacebar, they're concaved so it'll feel pretty sharp for your thumb.

lookit the stickynote i posted. My right thumb sits PERFECTLY on one of the 1.25 mods, the rest are there for show.

As for sharpness, I'm just using a 1.25 cherry mod and it's pretty alright for my fake typing I've done on it, I'll cover that hurdle when the time comes :D

Pefect fit for YOUR thumb. But I know everyone has different size hands. For me, my thumb is positioned right below the middle of the N key, and for some that have larger or wider hands, their thumbs might be just to the left of the N key on the spacebar. The thing with concaved keys is that the finger must be exactly centered, otherwise it'll sit on the higher corners.

I guess this all won't matter if this is only tailored to your fit and not the whole GH.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 20:23:23
Pefect fit for YOUR thumb. But I know everyone has different size hands. For me, my thumb is positioned right below the middle of the N key, and for some that have larger or wider hands, their thumbs might be just to the left of the N key on the spacebar. The thing with concaved keys is that the finger must be exactly centered, otherwise it'll sit on the higher corners.

I guess this all won't matter if this is only tailored to your fit and not the whole GH.

perfect fit for MY layout :P

EDIT: Nomoresneekpeek, I gotta fix the PCB!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 01 January 2013, 21:06:02
So can you elaborate on what the keys are, I mean like what is what. I am confused but intrigued.

yes, here's the layout when I designed it at work today

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i54v6g2m9wimssv/2012-12-31%2013.37.39.jpg

It looks like it's all alpha keys, with mods at the bottom, probably a key for space, and other stuff. What kind of layers are we looking at?

yep, pure alpha keys with mods at the bottom, the way I'm envisioning it, I'll have three layers overall, one of them focusing numbers, one focusing symbols.

Here is a pretty picture for you to work with.  PM me with adjustments and the layers and I'll mock them up for you as well.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 21:26:32
Here is a pretty picture for you to work with.  PM me with adjustments and the layers and I'll mock them up for you as well.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

ITZ SO CUUUUUUUUUUUUTE!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the mock-up samwisekoiron :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 01 January 2013, 21:35:07
[Strike]You can has no spacebar?[/strike]
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 01 January 2013, 21:45:14
It's right there below the N. :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 01 January 2013, 21:52:52
What's right below the N? *quickly changes other post*
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: phetto on Tue, 01 January 2013, 22:01:56
Ok, interesting, will follow this project, and I'm in no matter what.


Fun fact, I also only use left hand for space ^___^
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 01 January 2013, 22:59:22
I added my video to the OP since not many people have watched it :(
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: whiskerBox on Thu, 03 January 2013, 07:52:56
Spacebar is so small!!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 17:09:23
The one thing that I would suggest is having 10 keys on the middle row. Normally the left hand rests on ASDF and then goes right to hit G and the right hand rests on JKL; and moves left to hit H. Right now one of your index fingers only presses one key on the homerow, which really affects basic typing.

Additionally, while on Qwerty you can somewhat afford to lose ; on the homerow  as you`ve done, on colemak and dvorak you absolutely need all 10 keys on the homerow. I`d love a tiny keyboard like this, but it would have to be able to support 10 keys on the homerow.

Here`s what I came up with in about 10 minutes in paint. It`s in colemak but it`s not hard to imagine it in qwerty. It's 40 keys, (the one between B and K still blank, not sure what to put there). I made it symmetric stagger (you'd be a fool not to love it for typing!) but it would be easy to change to normal if you really wanted. Backspace could be made larger if desired. Shift and Space are the two most needed large keys in terms of common use. Enter is somewhat related to spacebar (making whitespace) so it goes near to it.

(http://i.imgur.com/rKJma.png)

Important to note is that by using number row numbers instead of numpad numbers, you can hold Fn1 + shift to get symbols without needing another function layer just for them. The F1-F12 keys are more human legible if they match up with the embedded numpad.

The arrow keys are on the equivalent of WASD shifted one column over (ESDF). This makes more sense because this is the homerow position, and then the extra column on the left of it (which wouldn't exist if we were on WASD) lets us reach more. Home and End are placed sensibly (Home is like "super left" so goes right above it, same idea for End). Page up and down are on the two buttons that the index finger can reach comfortably.

Media keys make sense as well, eg Volume Up on Up and Next on Right, etc. In general it's very intuitive so even if you didn't have custom keycaps with label it should be easy to understand.

These function layers that you see here are what I'm actually using on my Filco w/ HID liberation device right now essentially. I'll post a Qwerty equivalent when I get back home since I'm sure many people are deterred by the colemak legends.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 17:57:20
Ok, I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote, I'll try to answer what I do understand.

The one thing that I would suggest is having 10 keys on the middle row. Normally the left hand rests on ASDF and then goes right to hit G and the right hand rests on JKL; and moves left to hit H. Right now one of your index fingers only presses one key on the homerow, which really affects basic typing.

I'm not understanding this part, there are 11 keys on the middle row? I also don't understand what you mean, one of my index fingers presses one key, I don't see how each one isn't hitting 6 keys each.

Additionally, while on Qwerty you can somewhat afford to lose ; on the homerow  as you`ve done, on colemak and dvorak you absolutely need all 10 keys on the homerow. I`d love a tiny keyboard like this, but it would have to be able to support 10 keys on the homerow.

I know I haven't explicitly mentioned it, but I do plan on this keyboard being 110% customizable through firmware, so if you would want to shift that enter key over, or somewhere else entirely, it would be quite easy to do that. Which is why I haven't put a 100% definite layout.

Here`s what I came up with in about 10 minutes in paint. It`s in colemak but it`s not hard to imagine it in qwerty. It's 40 keys, (the one between B and K still blank, not sure what to put there). I made it symmetric stagger (you'd be a fool not to love it for typing!) but it would be easy to change to normal if you really wanted. Backspace could be made larger if desired. Shift and Space are the two most needed large keys in terms of common use. Enter is somewhat related to spacebar (making whitespace) so it goes near to it.

This is cool, the drawing I chopped out to save space, even though it is cool, I am obviously biased to the more "traditional" layout of the 33 alpha keys. Having said that, I see no reason it would be impossible to make multiple PCB layouts and if I do end up producing these in any way, shape, or form have a vote on which one would be best/more preferred. Another layout that has been mentioned is a pure 1x1 matrix, which wouldn't be too terribly difficult to make.

Important to note is that by using number row numbers instead of numpad numbers, you can hold Fn1 + shift to get symbols without needing another function layer just for them. The F1-F12 keys are more human legible if they match up with the embedded numpad.

That's another really cool idea. But as you can tell from the video, I really don't see this board as being a 100% replacement of more 'properly sized' boards, which Is why I haven't put too much thought into proper or useful layerings. But if I do end up doing something with that, I'll definitely be taking that into consideration.

The arrow keys are on the equivalent of WASD shifted one column over (ESDF). This makes more sense because this is the homerow position, and then the extra column on the left of it (which wouldn't exist if we were on WASD) lets us reach more. Home and End are placed sensibly (Home is like "super left" so goes right above it, same idea for End). Page up and down are on the two buttons that the index finger can reach comfortably.

More, confusing, layout speek :s

Media keys make sense as well, eg Volume Up on Up and Next on Right, etc. In general it's very intuitive so even if you didn't have custom keycaps with label it should be easy to understand.

Yeah, I guess, personally, I've never used them.

These function layers that you see here are what I'm actually using on my Filco w/ HID liberation device right now essentially. I'll post a Qwerty equivalent when I get back home since I'm sure many people are deterred by the colemak legends.

And with that, I've replied.

In conclusion. Interesting layout, no matter what board I make, it will be 400% customizable, and quit being so confusing :s
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 18:27:39
Umm....What is this I don't even. This would be a cool travel keyboard, but I think it would feel a bit cramped. QUICK! SOMEONE MAKE A 9 INCH LAPTOP WITH THIS KEYBOARD DESIGN!

Anyways, This could be an interesting project to follow, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd buy it. If you can bring the cardboard version to market for $20, then I'll consider it! :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 19:00:51
I'm not understanding this part, there are 11 keys on the middle row? I also don't understand what you mean, one of my index fingers presses one key, I don't see how each one isn't hitting 6 keys each.

Well first of all, if there's only 11 keys in the middle row, they couldn't possibly be hitting 6 keys each! That's the first bit that annoys me, the keyboard isn't symmetrical. The left hand presses 5 keys on the middle row and the right hand presses 6. If you completely removed the \|, which isn't a key that you use for regular typing and thus isn't really necessary because you didn't want this as a full keyboard, just one for "simple" typing, then you have a nice symmetrical 10 keys on the middle row (other rows would still be non-symmetrical though).

If the keyboard is programmable, the rest of what I was alluding to isn't important. What the "problem" is, is that you only have 9 _characters_ on the middle row and then enter to make up the 10th key. This isn't efficient because Enter isn't pressed very frequently and the middle row, aka the "home row," is a place where you should capitalize on typing because that's where your hands rest. Of course this is more a fault of the Qwerty layout which stupidly puts ; on the homerow, and enter is probably better than that for a "casual" typing keyboard, so I can't blame you. Dvorak and Colemak users would be putting a letter there instead, as you can see on my layout.

This is cool, the drawing I chopped out to save space, even though it is cool, I am obviously biased to the more "traditional" layout of the 33 alpha keys. Having said that, I see no reason it would be impossible to make multiple PCB layouts and if I do end up producing these in any way, shape, or form have a vote on which one would be best/more preferred. Another layout that has been mentioned is a pure 1x1 matrix, which wouldn't be too terribly difficult to make.

This is something that I really wish people would consider with an open mind! The default "staggered" layout has both your left and right hand inclined to the left. Hold both your hands out in front of you and angle them both to the left... Quite comfortable for the right hand, but it's just silly for the left! Both your hands should point inward. It literally makes no difference in terms of getting used to it. Each hand is still responsible for the same number of keys at the same relative positions, just now it's mirrored to better accommodate the fact that you don't have two right hands. If you try it, I guarantee you'd love it. There's literally not a single disadvantage to it.

A pure 1x1 matrix isn't that great because your hands point inwards, not straight... unless you put a lot of physical separation between the sides, like they do on the Kinesis Advantage.

The arrow keys are on the equivalent of WASD shifted one column over (ESDF). This makes more sense because this is the homerow position, and then the extra column on the left of it (which wouldn't exist if we were on WASD) lets us reach more. Home and End are placed sensibly (Home is like "super left" so goes right above it, same idea for End). Page up and down are on the two buttons that the index finger can reach comfortably.

More, confusing, layout speek :s

Okay let me try to explain this. Most people use WASD for moving in games, right? Shift that one set of keys over to the right. You're now on ESDF (which some people use for gaming. You can see that WASDkeyboards.com even supports this option in their customization!), with you index finger being on F. That F key is the index finger's "home" position, the scoop/nub. So when you want to use function layer arrows, your hand is already in position! You don't have to shift it over to WASD. As an additional bonus, you now have an extra column of keys to the left of your left pinky (which is why some people love it for gaming), which you wouldn't have if you were using WASD since there's nothing to the left of A on this 40% keyboard. This gives you access to more nearby keys.

Home and End are above left and right, because that makes sense. Pressing Home is like going all the way to the left, and pressing End is like going all the way to the right. The left index finger comfortably presses the key to its right (G) and the key down and to the right (V on a traditional keyboard, or B on my symmetrical one), so there are good places for Page Up and Page Down that remain in reach of your fingers.

----

And now I've answered your post!

Edit: Overall, our layouts are pretty much the same except for the staggered vs symmetrical. If you take the first 5 columns of yours and stagger them the other way, then take your backspace and \| key and put them into the space in the middle that you just created between the left and right sides, then you have my layout. What are the advantages? Now the top and middle row have 10 keys instead of 11, making them have the same number of keys per finger (5 and 5 instead of 5 and 6), and your hands will be more comfy! None of the actual functions of the keys matter since it's programmable, but I just gave an example of what it could look like, which I believe to be quite efficient and intuitive. Also, that blank key that I left above my Win key should totally be ' " because those are both pretty common in simple typing.

Double edit: D'oh... now I see why you need 11 keys for your top row... you silly Qwerty people have 10 letters on the top whereas we awesome (+sarcasm!) Colemak people have 9 and ; which we can afford to ditch. Drat! Well I propose that you move your backspace to the bottom row, like it is on the Kinesis Advantage and sort of like on the Truly Ergonomic.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:15:05
Okay, so here's an idea for a Qwerty version where I can justify the symmetrical stagger and 10 keys on each row.

(http://i.imgur.com/qGd2l.png)

First thing, for those who like to press spacebar with their right thumb, just switch it with backspace.

As essomenona suggested, you can turn on NumLock if you don't want to hold down Fn1. This would make the red labels the basic functions of the keys and this functionality is already supported in the firmware that was made for the HID Liberation Device (called profiles).
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:33:24
so I was a bit bored

EDIT: AND DID SOMETHING STUPID (http://i.imgur.com/CUDEd.png)

dosen't seem SUPER difficult to make a PCB with my layout and your's kinda there :P

Major differences from your concepts (I'll use your QWERTY one)

1. The Win and . key are 1.25 instead of 1
2. The A/Z and Enter/Shift stagger is only 1/8
3. Therefore making the QA stagger 4/8 ?
4. And allowing for a 1x between the G/H (not pictured)
5. I'm too lazy to layout the actual traces, but it shouldn't be too super difficult :P

EDIT: and stop being so specific with your layouts, I want a definite hardware layout before committing to any kind of mockup layouts :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:46:34
For the symmetrical one:
Should be a 1/2 space between G/H
QA stagger is 1/4
AZ stagger is also 1/4

But you can't put them both on the same PCB because then there'd be extra space hanging out on one side, no? (left on mine, right on yours)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:50:55
For the symmetrical one:
Should be a 1/2 space between G/H
QA stagger is 1/4
AZ stagger is also 1/4

But you can't put them both on the same PCB because then there'd be extra space hanging out on one side, no? (left on mine, right on yours)

The reason I couldn't do 1/4,1/4 stagger is because it would put critical points in drillholes, OH WAIT UNLESS WE DO PLATE MOUNT BRB

(yes I literally just thought of that while typing this)

Edit: while I'm doing this, are you ok with the 1.25 middle two?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:57:14
The 1.25 middle two? There's only room for 1x in my sketch.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 21:03:07
The 1.25 middle two? There's only room for 1x in my sketch.

yeah, but I threw your sketch out the window for simplicity :)) Lets try 1x and see what happens :00
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Terrorsathan on Thu, 03 January 2013, 21:30:55
(http://cdn.stripersonline.com/8/85/200x200px-ZC-85cd51d3_3192526-man-eating-popcorn-while-watching-movie.jpeg)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 03 January 2013, 21:50:15
The 1.25 middle two? There's only room for 1x in my sketch.

yeah, but I threw your sketch out the window for simplicity :)

I LOL'd :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 22:00:46
If this does actually get made, I'd totally suggest just a metal plate for the bottom wall of a "case" and not have side walls at all to keep the small/minimalist look. Kind of like on the Corsair K60

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6592439667_fbb9bf70df_b.jpg)

It would also be super simple. You'd just need to tap some threaded holes in the metal plate, which is something I could get done.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 22:24:05
If this does actually get made, I'd totally suggest just a metal plate for the bottom wall of a "case" and not have side walls at all to keep the small/minimalist look. Kind of like on the Corsair K60

It would also be super simple. You'd just need to tap some threaded holes in the metal plate, which is something I could get done.

O yea, those Corsair boards are so so nice, I'd totally would have gotten one if it was that stupid half-membrane :/

Also I did one of these things, I think they're pretty useful, 9 x 3.5 in PCB

(http://i.imgur.com/s8hit.png)

I guesstimated the teensy pins, but everything else is a wonderful mashup of our layouts. huehue
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Thu, 03 January 2013, 23:16:26
Ah, but something's not quite right about my one in there. It isn't symmetrical. If you look at the middle 1x unit key on the 3rd row (ZXCV), there's suppose to be two keys equidistant from it on the top row (QWER). There's other places where there's hints of it not being symmetrical as well. It seems like on the left half of the board the 1st and 2nd row have a 0x stagger for example. (this post is not suppose to sound whiny/demanding, just matter of fact)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 03 January 2013, 23:42:20
(http://i.imgur.com/UqLJE.png)

Is that right, I forgot to accustom the top row to your layout :))

Oh btw, thorzain is now live.

E: I like this design, if we mash the two designs together, there is that one key 4:0 that we could treat as a 'proper' escape key :)) just something in the upper left corner of your keyboard to mash in rage
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 04 January 2013, 00:13:40
This board is turning into pure insanity.  I love it.
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 04 January 2013, 00:35:36
This board is turning into pure insanity.  I love it.
Avatar relevant.
Edit: YOU SNEAKY HASHBAZ! CHANGE IT WHILE I POST, WHY DONTCHA?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 04 January 2013, 01:47:39
:D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 04 January 2013, 07:31:14
yeah, but I threw your sketch out the window for simplicity :)
I LOL'd :D

Yeah; I'm going to save this one for work.

Employee: "Did you take my input into account on the process/proposal/design?"

Boss: "No, I threw it out for simplicity."

Love it!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Fri, 04 January 2013, 08:08:42
Very much liking it. And yea, if the teensy has to attach on the left side like that, having that proper Esc key to make use of the extra space in my layout would certainly be amusing.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: JPG on Fri, 04 January 2013, 08:32:28
I just say your video, gotta say you really are into this  ;D

And after seeing you type on it, I just realized that your left thumb is also at the ready to hit a spacebar, if you decided to put a second spacebar on the key to the left of the one you aimed for it.

Basicaly, you would have two 1.25X spacebars next to one another, in order to satisfy people that uses both thumbs or the left one. So thats almost like a 2.5X spacebar with no stabilizer required! But it makes one less key to be used. Or if fully programmable, people could choose wich one they prefer.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: BLJ Consulting on Fri, 04 January 2013, 10:57:44
i think this might be a good use for those modular housings i posted over the break
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: JPG on Fri, 04 January 2013, 11:00:47
i think this might be a good use for those modular housings i posted over the break

Is that thing solid enough to be nice to type on?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: BLJ Consulting on Fri, 04 January 2013, 11:55:29
sure, the housings are snap fit and are very tight once they are fit together but of course with nothing behind them there is no return pressure.  here is a link to the info about them so i dont derail Kirk's thread.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38617.0
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Fri, 04 January 2013, 12:00:27
sure, the housings are snap fit and are very tight once they are fit together but of course with nothing behind them there is no return pressure.  here is a link to the info about them so i dont derail Kirk's thread.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38617.0

Derail away sir. Just as long as you hook me up with some of those :-X

They seem interesting enough, I wonder what it would take to modify some of those to hold MX switches, MODULAR KEYBAORDS!!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: reverkiller on Fri, 04 January 2013, 20:24:36
Your layout, I like it.

Its like a HHKB said "What if I lose some weight..." :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 05 January 2013, 15:28:09
So I don't know if this is 40%, but is has no stinkin' stabilzers:

[attach=1]
Keyboard for 7" Tablets

This keyboard is designed to have the same footprint as a 7" tablet (e.g. Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Nook Color) and retain all of the standard keys to allow for non-chiclet typing.  Please note that tablets don't have/need Control, Windows or Alt keys, so they are missing.  However, there are arrow keys and a whole bunch of re-labelable keycaps, so if you need other keys, you can have them.

Just a thought.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: asura on Sat, 05 January 2013, 16:23:27
Don't Access-Is make a board of about that size...

So they currently do a nine by six and a fifteen by six matrix, but I'm sure I saw someone with a twelve by six somewhere...

I wonder if it's worth pointing out to them that ten by six is equivalent to a common tablet size to see if they'd re-orient their nine by six upwards.  Nine by six does seem kind of odd...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 05 January 2013, 16:27:13
So I don't know if this is 40%, but is has no stinkin' stabilzers:

Keyboard for 7" Tablets

This keyboard is designed to have the same footprint as a 7" tablet (e.g. Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Nook Color) and retain all of the standard keys to allow for non-chiclet typing.  Please note that tablets don't have/need Control, Windows or Alt keys, so they are missing.  However, there are arrow keys and a whole bunch of re-labelable keycaps, so if you need other keys, you can have them.

Just a thought.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

That's more like 60%, go post that crap in the GH60 Thread :-*

No seriously, It's interesting, and I like seeing people propose new crazy layouts in this thread. If you really like that layout, PM me and lets make something happen, I'll gladly help you out.
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 05 January 2013, 17:49:18
So I don't know if this is 40%, but is has no stinkin' stabilzers:

Keyboard for 7" Tablets

This keyboard is designed to have the same footprint as a 7" tablet (e.g. Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Nook Color) and retain all of the standard keys to allow for non-chiclet typing.  Please note that tablets don't have/need Control, Windows or Alt keys, so they are missing.  However, there are arrow keys and a whole bunch of re-labelable keycaps, so if you need other keys, you can have them.

Just a thought.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

That's more like 60%, go post that crap in the GH60 Thread :-*

No seriously, It's interesting, and I like seeing people propose new crazy layouts in this thread. If you really like that layout, PM me and lets make something happen, I'll gladly help you out.
I'd take one of those... interesting idea Ron!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:01:40
OK GUIZE, WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO A "FINAL" BOARD DESIGN, AND I'M YELLING BECAUSE I'M EXCITED, YOU SHOULD BE EXITED TOO!!!

(http://i.imgur.com/986kdm.png) (http://imgur.com/986kd.jpg)

Also, I've started to put my projects up on GitHub so you guys can steal 'em and print 'em yourself :p

https://github.com/TheKirkMiller/40Kirkcent
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:10:31
I think a 40% board is a bit much for me. I'm still stuck on 104 keyboards lol. But you're doing awesome work; this project looks really cool. I'm sure you're doing more than just this and the Topre keychains so props to you ^_^.
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Gupgup on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:11:30
When would this be available?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:20:12
When would this be available?

If the PCB doesn't look super horrible (I'll try to run it by as many people as possible to make sure everything looks good) I'll try to get a small run ~10-15 PCB's made HOPEFULLY sometime early February, so just be sure you hang around this thread, to keep up to date :)
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:28:44
I think a 40% board is a bit much for me. I'm still stuck on 104 keyboards lol. But you're doing awesome work; this project looks really cool. I'm sure you're doing more than just this and the Topre keychains so props to you ^_^.
Just between you and me, I think he's crazy. Oh hi Kmiller8, didn't seen you there!


Honestly, very nice looking. The more I look, the more I think it would be cool to have!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:45:38
dante
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:53:08
kaymillerate
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 12 January 2013, 22:55:26
kaymillerate
Somebody knows their Phonics!
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 12 January 2013, 23:03:36
I think a 40% board is a bit much for me. I'm still stuck on 104 keyboards lol. But you're doing awesome work; this project looks really cool. I'm sure you're doing more than just this and the Topre keychains so props to you ^_^.
Just between you and me, I think he's crazy. Oh hi Kmiller8, didn't seen you there!


Honestly, very nice looking. The more I look, the more I think it would be cool to have!

See look. First he posts a crazy project. Then you're like hmm...I think I need 3 of those. He's a mad man! Hide you wallet!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 13 January 2013, 02:47:02
kmiller40-PROF2.25 Layout

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/kmiller225_zps5779fde3.png)


kmiller-PROF1.25 Layout

on its way!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 02:47:16
github updated with some new Profosist layouts :)

(http://i.imgur.com/ynDcLl.png) (http://imgur.com/ynDcL.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/a5fJwl.png) (http://imgur.com/a5fJw.jpg)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 13 January 2013, 10:01:58
Now do mine :)

(http://i.imgur.com/d9Nbq.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 10:16:45
Now do mine :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/d9Nbq.png)


le sighs. I'll see what I can do

But as I explained to TheProfosist, I refuse to touch the left side, since it is already cluttered with a controller :x

What I will do is try to squeeze some 1x mods down there :))
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 13 January 2013, 10:29:10
Now do mine :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/d9Nbq.png)


le sighs. I'll see what I can do

But as I explained to TheProfosist, I refuse to touch the left side, since it is already cluttered with a controller :x

What I will do is try to squeeze some 1x mods down there :))

Haha, yeah, I know that mine is really a different concept. Minimal, while trying to keep it rectangular. :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 13 January 2013, 10:40:59
Make it five deep so you get the numbers.

You mean like the GH60? :P

Quote from: dante
On the right hand side add a number pad.

You mean like the GHpad? ;)

Quote from: dante
What are you guys using to create these layouts because I can mock up what I'm describing.

I'm using MS Paint. :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Sun, 13 January 2013, 10:49:17
I'm also rocking the MS paint!

Rooting for you kmiller8!

For everyone else: Y U NO EMBRACE SYMMETRICAL LAYOUT? IT R GUD 4 UR HANDZ
Seriously though, you should try it if you get one of these and then change it back to your way if you don't like it. :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 11:10:09
OK GUIZE I'm seeing at least 288 possible layouts on this board

Try to decipher this image!

(http://i.imgur.com/kS3K4m.png) (http://imgur.com/kS3K4.jpg)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 13 January 2013, 11:12:32
Ha! I love it!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 11:15:19
Ha! I love it!

so you're ok with the 1, 1, 6.25, 1, 1, 1? (That's what I added for you)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Gupgup on Sun, 13 January 2013, 11:16:43
When would this be available?

If the PCB doesn't look super horrible (I'll try to run it by as many people as possible to make sure everything looks good) I'll try to get a small run ~10-15 PCB's made HOPEFULLY sometime early February, so just be sure you hang around this thread, to keep up to date :)

Awesome! Can't wait!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Sun, 13 January 2013, 14:34:42
(http://i.imgur.com/QgAM2.png)

Who's ordering the doubleshots!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:18:28
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QgAM2.png)


Who's ordering the doubleshots!
I was going to protest and say that spacebar looks funky and that it's probably not going to work well, but then I looked down at my laptop keyboard and realized that the spacebar on that is bigger than the spacebar on my laptop...

I feel this keyboard would work best as a Bluetooth keyboard or some other type of wireless keyboard...Just need to figure out how to power it...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Alessandro on Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:23:13
This would be a pretty badass travel keyboard! Or if you make it fully programmable, it could be a nice little gaming macro pad. I really like this!
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:24:50
Ha! I love it!

so you're ok with the 1, 1, 6.25, 1, 1, 1? (That's what I added for you)

Yeah, that's great, thanks!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:09:40
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QgAM2.png)


Who's ordering the doubleshots!

You better fix those keys on the left side, that layout is not and will not be supported by this :x
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:38:49
You better fix those keys on the left side, that layout is not and will not be supported by this :x

Ok I lied about this, since some of the switches aren't perfectly aligned, I'm going to do a 100% overhaul on the board ,_, so as of right this moment, all layouts are considered

I'll post soon with all the ones I plan on supporting 100%
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Preach on Sun, 13 January 2013, 19:07:07
This project definitely seems interesting. Looks perfect cause I don't even use the F row, number row, or arrows/print screen/ insert sections of keyboards.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 13 January 2013, 19:27:14
ohtay, so, I've decided if I redo the board completely I miiiight be able to shift the controller out of the way of the bottom row, allowing us to make a full 'rectangle' 40% board o.o

The Layouts:
(http://i.imgur.com/d3Qf7l.png) (http://imgur.com/d3Qf7.jpg)

Things I've done:

OneProduct, you get your layout, now shoo. You can add a 1x in the extreme upper right as a pseudo 'Esc' key

PROF125, I changed the switch to a 1.25x instead of a 1x to make the stagger look nicer, it can be 1x.

kmiller8, I changed the two switches to 1.25x instead of a 1x to make the stagger look nicer, they can be 1x.

jdcarpe, I swapped your 1.25x and 1x to fit the layout that's already there, this cannot be changed, unless there is enough room on the PCB to allow it.

These are the 4 layouts I'm higly considering, if anyone has any modifications they'd like to make, or possible add another layout (like maybe relcc's) let me know.

I'll probably re-make this board Tuesday, so get your suggestions in before then :D

E: Here are your restrictions btw:

The 1.75x key cannot be anything smaller or it will interfere with the controller, someone suggested to just put the controller on a separate board, but I really really really don't want to do that :s

(http://i.imgur.com/enfFql.png) (http://imgur.com/enfFq.jpg)

Also, as a general rule of thumb, the way the matrix is laid out here are the max keys/row

Row 1 - 12
Row 2 - 11
Row 3 - 11
Row 4 - 10

If I can think of anything else, I'll let you knows.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 13 January 2013, 21:00:14
updated prof layout layers should come soon

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/kmiller40-PROF125_zps49cbd0cb.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Sun, 13 January 2013, 21:05:48
OneProduct, you get your layout, now shoo. You can add a 1x in the extreme upper right as a pseudo 'Esc' key

Shooing as ordered, but super happy as I do! There's a few people on Deskthority who would probably be interested in that symmetrical layout as well. I suggested it in 7bit's hypermicro/hypermini thread and there was a bit of attention for it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Magnusian on Mon, 14 January 2013, 04:16:46
Now all it needs is a lenovo trackpoint for ultimate portability.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: reverkiller on Mon, 14 January 2013, 09:49:53
updated prof layout layers should come soon

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/kmiller40-PROF125_zps49cbd0cb.png)


That looks like my keyboard layout tool :D

I'll give it some love this afternoon (Add/Remove rows is what I'm thinking, and if I can figureout export as PNG so you don't have to screenshot it :P)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 14 January 2013, 10:24:23
Prof's new layout looks almost the same as mine, except for the bottom row.

Kirk, I hate to change things on you now, but I didn't like the bottom row the way I had it before. Can you change it to reflect this?

(http://i.imgur.com/0w53a.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 14 January 2013, 11:29:46
Prof's new layout looks almost the same as mine, except for the bottom row.

Kirk, I hate to change things on you now, but I didn't like the bottom row the way I had it before. Can you change it to reflect this?

Yeah, Since I told him he can't move that 1.75 shift, there's not much you can do with the layout other than the bottom rows :))

And it's perfectly fine to be changing layouts now, that's why I gave you all until Tuesday.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: regack on Mon, 14 January 2013, 14:33:33
soooo... any way to squeeze in something like this?

 :D :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Mon, 14 January 2013, 14:42:01
This board caught my attention - I've been blowing over this thread for awhile, now.  But I'm impressed.  I like the looks of Prof's layout - with the potential for a nice 2nd layer arrow cluster.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 14 January 2013, 15:01:58
This board caught my attention - I've been blowing over this thread for awhile, now.  But I'm impressed.  I like the looks of Prof's layout - with the potential for a nice 2nd layer arrow cluster.
you could have arrows in the lower right if you dont need rshift or relocated it
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Mon, 14 January 2013, 15:04:51
Much rather have the shift, punctuation, etc... on the primary layer with an arrow cluster on a function layer.

But who knows.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 14 January 2013, 15:09:43
Much rather have the shift, punctuation, etc... on the primary layer with an arrow cluster on a function layer.

But who knows.
well punctuation isnt happening unless you sacrifice letters
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jspark on Tue, 15 January 2013, 10:23:38
I think typing on this keyboard would be real fun, but I have a question. what case can we use for this?
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 15 January 2013, 10:45:00
I think typing on this keyboard would be real fun, but I have a question. what case can we use for this?

I plan on making a case from layers of cardboard glued together. But if the footprint of the PCB is the same for all the designs, maybe someone will design a case for it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 10:59:40
I think typing on this keyboard would be real fun, but I have a question. what case can we use for this?

as jdcarpe said, there aren't any ideas for cases right now, I might do a personal run of acrylic cases as something cheap/easy but I'm not 100% sure if I have access to an acrylic cutter just yet :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 14:26:06
OK guys, here's whats going down, Tonight, 6 CST, I'll be streaming me building this PCB with all your stupid layout ideas <3

Depending how long it takes, we might not finish everything tonight since I need to be up early tomorrow for the first day of the semester, be sure to be watching this thread for the link :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Dreadwyrm on Tue, 15 January 2013, 15:02:44
For everyone else: Y U NO EMBRACE SYMMETRICAL LAYOUT? IT R GUD 4 UR HANDZ
I believe in you!! The key positions look pretty good, it's the one I like the best so far, but I would have an even cooler idea.  :cool:

Why not be able to take the board to two pieces in the middle (or keep them together if you like), and have a 5*5 or 6*5 matrix for each hand (with only 1*1's), connected by a relatively short extending cable? That way, both of your hands could look inwards, and it would be really comfortable to type on... sort of like a mobile ErgoDox.  :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 15:39:32
sort of like a mobile ErgoDox.  :D

next project, it'll be a Ergo8 :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Dreadwyrm on Tue, 15 January 2013, 16:06:43
next project, it'll be a Ergo8 :P
I'm in!   ;D

now back to your current project: Do you have any idea about what case material to use, in which colors and finishes?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 17:57:25
AAAAAND WE'RE LIVE, probably for the next few hours, so stop by, say hello, DON'T LOOK AT THE SUGGESTED STREAMS FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS PLEASE.

EDIT: 4 hours later ,_, Just need to connect the matrix to the controller, ezpz
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:00:03
Watching now to up your viewer count/ad revenue :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:00:31
Where are the non-character keys going to be mapped? Any suggestions? I count 22 keys that need to be mapped in a usable way.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:03:58
2nd layer would be the only option
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:05:28
Waxing gone wrong? YES!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:05:58
Yes but which keys...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:07:52
I wish SP made tipro size spacebars, which are 4x I believe. After using a JIS spacebar, I find fullsize spacebars kind of too big.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Tue, 15 January 2013, 18:41:01
Considering I only use one hand to ever hit the spacebar - I'm with you.  So much wasted space down there.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 15 January 2013, 19:20:00
Need 7x spacebar for this.

New bottom row: 1.25-1.25-7-1.25-1.25

or 1.5-1-7-1-1.5

:D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 15 January 2013, 19:31:33
4x spacebar availability would be pretty nice.

A bottom row I've wanted to try is 1.25/1.25/1.25/2.25/1.75/2.25/1.25/1.25/1.25/1.25 

PS - not a suggestion, just mentioning it :)


Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 15 January 2013, 19:34:00
Is it Cherry who made the 4x spacebar for tipro? Possible to get them made in future GMK runs maybe, and start a whole new era of custom boards with 4x spacebars :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: riffautae on Tue, 15 January 2013, 19:46:32
Trackpoint idea:

People could just DIY it, kmiller talked about making it safe to drill (without cutting traces) in irc during his livestream.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 19:56:39
Trackpoint idea:

People could just DIY it, kmiller talked about making it safe to drill (without cutting traces) in irc during his livestream.
IDK, though I know it's not entirely possibly, I would much prefer something like the trackpoint-equipped laptops have (between the G, H, and B keys), though I can understand not having that due to keycaps. I'm not sure how I would like a symmetrical keyboard, but I MIGHT try it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oneproduct on Tue, 15 January 2013, 21:46:15
Hold your hands out, palms down in front of your body. Twist both of your hands to the left at your wrist. Which hand is more comfortable?

Put your hands on your keyboard with each finger resting across the keys that it is responsible for:
QAZ for the left pinky, WSX for the left ring finger, etc.
Is your left or right hand more comfortable when you do this?

It makes far more sense for both hands to twist inwards, not outwards! That's just how the body is. Think about how much sense it makes and give it a shot. If you're a human being with human hands and wrists you should enjoy it!

Would you wear two right shoes!? :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 15 January 2013, 21:50:08
Hold your hands out, palms down in front of your body. Twist both of your hands to the left at your wrist. Which hand is more comfortable?

Put your hands on your keyboard with each finger resting across the keys that it is responsible for:
QAZ for the left pinky, WSX for the left ring finger, etc.
Is your left or right hand more comfortable when you do this?

It makes far more sense for both hands to twist inwards, not outwards! That's just how the body is. Think about how much sense it makes and give it a shot. If you're a human being with human hands and wrists you should enjoy it!

Would you wear two right shoes!? :D

Only if I had two right feet!

Originally I hadn't thought much about this project due to the hypermicro, but at the speed this is going and watching kmiller tonight, I think I should get in on this action! If only SP had 4x spacebars!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Tue, 15 January 2013, 21:56:41
Whoneedsaspacebaratall?JKIlikethesmallerspacebars!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 15 January 2013, 22:18:39
OK DEWDS, that was a "fun" 4 hours. I got a lot of work done however I didn't finish in connecting the matrix to the controller, that should be a 20-30m job. I'll be sure to update the github once I get that part done, and update the thread with pics :D

like this one from 2nite!

(http://i.imgur.com/2Na1sm.png) (http://imgur.com/2Na1s.png)

This doesn't show the entire layout, but it shows the part where I am going to try and squeeze the controller to fit all your stupid layouts ,_,
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: riffautae on Wed, 16 January 2013, 03:48:51
I made a few modifications to maximize the safe area in the center. I have outlined it in pink here. I also flipped the two diodes on the right which I scribbled on in pink.

One thing to note, It complained I didn't have some of your libraries. I don't know if that will mess anything up or if it just doesn't mess with unknown components.

Send me a message on irc if you want a pull request (or hate what I did) I pushed my changes to github.

Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 January 2013, 04:29:23
Whats the safe area for?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Wed, 16 January 2013, 04:39:07
It's for milling a vertical slot to make it coin operated.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 16 January 2013, 06:43:28
You can drill a hole there if you want to add a trackpoint.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Dreadwyrm on Wed, 16 January 2013, 06:49:01
You can drill a hole there if you want to add a trackpoint.
Oh boy yes... and if someone could actually hack it to be wireless, this would be the best traveling keyboard ever!  :D
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 January 2013, 07:01:14
You can drill a hole there if you want to add a trackpoint.
seriously? If so just make the hole standard :p
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:18:18
Yea, I don't see why you need so much space for a hole. I'll modify the major branch less heavily later.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:22:47
The size of that 'safe zone' allows the board to be modded so that it can have a centered TP between 2 switches, or the old-school nestled into the lower row option.  Or if you're silly nestled into the upper row.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:41:07
I'm just gonna post this here for future reference.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261116411766

Perhaps someone could buy one and see how easy it would be to salvage the nub thingy from this board, and what kind of footprint on a PCB it would have.

Infact, screw it, I have $12 in PP, I'll order one :))
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:44:58
Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:54:31
Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?

*cough* http://captainunlikely.blogspot.com/2012/01/bluetooth-teensyduino-and-linux.html *cough*

if someone really wants to try it :D Like I was explaining in IRC, I plan on making as many of the unused pins on the left side of the board usable with through-holes so that anyone can add their own boards and mods to this thing :D
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:56:46
You ok? Sounds like you have a bit of a cough there!;)

Yea, I don't understand any of that stuff :/ I'll either have to learn, or hope someone else will do the hard part.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:57:40
Haha, I just posted it showing that it should be possible to implement a BT module on this board.
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Wed, 16 January 2013, 08:59:24
Haha, I just posted it showing that it should be possible to implement a BT module on this board.

Ya it looked pretty simple, hah!
But I did get the part that it looks doable. Looks like this could end up being one ultimate board!
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:01:54
Ok I need to order like 4 of the prototype boards. :D

Got that trackpoint headed to me now. Thanks for the link, KM.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:03:32
Ok I need to order like 4 of the prototype boards. :D

Got that trackpoint headed to me now. Thanks for the link, KM.

haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:08:38
Yes yes, do all the hard work boys...and let us dumb folk reap the benefits!
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:17:29
haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.

Like I can wait for anything. ;D

You just tell me where to solder that ish and I will puts it on the board.

Maybe someone has some trackpoint GHB Cherry keycaps they will sell us.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: reverkiller on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:22:18
Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?

*cough* http://captainunlikely.blogspot.com/2012/01/bluetooth-teensyduino-and-linux.html *cough*

if someone really wants to try it :D Like I was explaining in IRC, I plan on making as many of the unused pins on the left side of the board usable with through-holes so that anyone can add their own boards and mods to this thing :D

I read the article, and it seems you can't make an HID with this. He said that this (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10938?) (which costs >6x as much, but at WalletHack it should be fine :P) is another option.
Title: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Halverson on Wed, 16 January 2013, 09:24:53
haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.

Like I can wait for anything. ;D

You just tell me where to solder that ish and I will puts it on the board.

Maybe someone has some trackpoint GHB Cherry keycaps they will sell us.

Speaking of TP cherry caps. I've been waiting on a set. Finally may have a reason for them :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 15:21:07
This would be awesome in Bluetooth with a Trackpoint. If this ends up existing, then I'll likely order one (maybe 2 :D). Trackpoint + Mechanical keyboard = perfect travel companion.

Soon, you will be able to annoy ANYONE ANYWHERE! Just think: Cherry MX Blues (or Greens if those suit your fancy) in the Car, on a Plane, in a Hotel lobby! Even in a classroom for students! The possibilities of annoyance are ENDLESS!

[insert evil laugh here]
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 16 January 2013, 20:35:36
dfj has given me a wonderful idea, DUAL CONTROLLERS. This won't make sense right now, but just wait. All will be revealed.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Thu, 17 January 2013, 00:52:01
Wow you guys work fast.  Jd, you really already ordered prototypes?  How much was 4?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Glod on Thu, 17 January 2013, 01:09:11
oh wow, just looked at this thread for the first time since it started, it sure went from putting switches on a crude cardboard mock up to something i would actually want pretty quickly, I approve :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Preach on Thu, 17 January 2013, 02:42:41
This is moving along nicely. I am very interested in this
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 17 January 2013, 06:15:36
Wow you guys work fast.  Jd, you really already ordered prototypes?  How much was 4?

No one has anything, yet. :) The PCB design isn't finished, although the layouts are. kmiller8's live stream of this the other night was fun to watch as he designed the board to 90% complete.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Thu, 17 January 2013, 08:01:36
It is going fast... Do you think We'll be able to order the 40% before the GH60 van be ordered...??
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Thu, 17 January 2013, 09:07:13
Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 17 January 2013, 16:31:14
Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...
either get them custom made or be like me and not care too much about profile cause yo uwant the nlayers on the caps and get them from wasd
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 17 January 2013, 16:38:58
Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

This keyboard doesn't really use a top-row profile keycap at all. So the majority of novelty keys are out. :)
"ASDF" row 1.75x keycap is traditional Caps Lock. 1.25x key on this profile might be the only real problem.
"ZXCV" row 1.75x keycap is traditional short Right Shift. 1.25x key on this profile are all bottom row mods and short Left Shift.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 17 January 2013, 18:42:05
Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

That is a serious concern, hmm not sure how I let that slide, I was cross-checking the keys as I went, but I overlooked that one...

It looks as if SP makes a 1.25 row 3

http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

but they don't have any blanks in stock.

http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSPBTInventory.pdf
http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSABSInventory.pdf

I guess we'll have to do a GB for caps :)

I'll contact SP about pricing for a hundred blanks or so and report back with my findings.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 17 January 2013, 18:47:29
Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

That is a serious concern, hmm not sure how I let that slide, I was cross-checking the keys as I went, but I overlooked that one...

It looks as if SP makes a 1.25 row 3

http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

but they don't have any blanks in stock.

http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSPBTInventory.pdf
http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSABSInventory.pdf

I guess we'll have to do a GB for caps :)

I'll contact SP about pricing for a hundred blanks or so and report back with my findings.
think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 17 January 2013, 18:49:22
think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!

IDK, it's an odd profile for sure, I just popped melissa an email about 100 PBT blanks in the cheapest color they have. NOW WE WAIT.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 17 January 2013, 18:52:27
think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!

IDK, it's an odd profile for sure, I just popped melissa an email about 100 PBT blanks in the cheapest color they have. NOW WE WAIT.
i dont think the profile matters so much
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 17 January 2013, 22:34:34
OK so, since I don't have school tomorrow, I stayed up late to finish this :)

Completed the Matrix
(http://i.imgur.com/5dBM4m.png) (http://imgur.com/5dBM4.png)

Cut out the ground plane to allow safer drilling (Someone help me do this better :x)
(http://i.imgur.com/EwTXMm.png) (http://imgur.com/EwTXM.png)

Connected all the pins to the controller
(http://i.imgur.com/uwp75m.png) (http://imgur.com/uwp75.png)

Added the option to power the board with a Teensy
(http://i.imgur.com/lBkWVm.png) (http://imgur.com/lBkWV.png)

Including the USB portion
(http://i.imgur.com/foibCm.png) (http://imgur.com/foibC.png)

Also, I just noticed I forgot to add through-holes for the unconnected pins on the 32u4. Next revision. btw, everything has been pushed to github :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 17 January 2013, 22:36:20
There's a keepout thingy... if I remember/figure it out before you I'll post.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 17 January 2013, 22:39:28
There's a keepout thingy... if I remember/figure it out before you I'll post.

I tried it, two different ways, one from within the zone itself, and one as a separate option, neither worked properly :/
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: riffautae on Thu, 17 January 2013, 23:29:38
Can someone with a trackpoint module laying around measure the stick diameter? I made the hole big since I didn't know what the size was. With the bigger hole I knew it would fit. Plus for people using the split middle row layout could prolly even get a mouse button or two modded up in there. I bet it would allow someone to mount a momentary tact switch next to it on the pcb and use wires to connect it to the controller.

Could you describe your issues with the larger safe zone kmiller8? We can try to make one that is less objectionable.

You haven't specified firmware yet, have you looked at the TMK firmware? It has tons of features including the ability to forward data from a ps/2 mouse which I think some thinkpad sticks are.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Fri, 18 January 2013, 03:18:17
Why the border on the pcb? It will make it harder to get a proper casing for it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Fri, 18 January 2013, 07:28:45
Could you describe your issues with the larger safe zone kmiller8? We can try to make one that is less objectionable.

You haven't specified firmware yet, have you looked at the TMK firmware? It has tons of features including the ability to forward data from a ps/2 mouse which I think some thinkpad sticks are.

The issue with the safe zone, is that I just drew some wires there instead of properly setting up a safe zone KiCad seems to have that feature, but it wasn't working as expected, so I just did the temp-fix thing to show what I'm talking about.

I was talking about F/W with someone in IRC the other day, I'll have to get with someone about modifying a pre-existing firmware to fit my pin layout, I don't plan on doing anything with the thinkpad sticks except setting a safe zone for you guys to drill through, it's an interesting idea, but I don't want to deal with it :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Sat, 19 January 2013, 06:29:21
kmiller8, do you have a picture of the different possible bottom rows together? It's hard to make out possible layouts from the PCB. Thanks
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Sat, 19 January 2013, 08:01:59
PCB suggestion.

To prevent te extra border on top, would it be an idea to make the usb connector break out a little (like many keyboard PCB designs) and try to bring the 'teensy connector' closer to the center. The column connections may also be drawn from the connections at the bottom row..?? Otherwise you would have a gap between the top keys and possible keyboard case....

(btw, why not bring the 'teensy connector' to the other side of the board.. That may prevent having to draw many long datalines)

(http://i.imgur.com/dZT57Mn.png)
PCB image mockup!! not a real design
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Sat, 19 January 2013, 09:01:38
Above suggestions doesnt get rid of the border/padding completely if I'm correct. Only the right side has no border at the moment and keys would be next to the case, other sides will have a gap.

Another (crazy) idea: since you're moving into the direction of a Teensy-breakout controller anyway; the following idea would make use of the usb connector on the Teensy and could get rid of all borders on the PCB as the controller and usb connector on the PCB is not needed. I know you prefer an on-PCB controller, but this would have advantages...

(http://i.imgur.com/4OCQdyC.png)
PCB image 'hack'; not a real design!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 19 January 2013, 12:26:25
kmiller8, do you have a picture of the different possible bottom rows together? It's hard to make out possible layouts from the PCB. Thanks

Here ya go. I came up with the bottom two while working on the others, all the others are suggestions by the people.

(http://i.imgur.com/kh08oC6m.png) (http://imgur.com/kh08oC6.jpg)

While I was at it, I decided to take another one of these.

(http://i.imgur.com/xKezkskm.png) (http://imgur.com/xKezksk.jpg)

If my math is correct, there's almost a possible 800 different layouts o.o

PCB suggestion.

To prevent te extra border on top, would it be an idea to make the usb connector break out a little (like many keyboard PCB designs) and try to bring the 'teensy connector' closer to the center. The column connections may also be drawn from the connections at the bottom row..?? Otherwise you would have a gap between the top keys and possible keyboard case....

(btw, why not bring the 'teensy connector' to the other side of the board.. That may prevent having to draw many long datalines)

I see no reason to shave 2mm off the top of the board and force myself to completely redo the top lines. Have you ever taken apart a keyboard case, the case doesn't go straight vertical where the pcb ends.

Above suggestions doesnt get rid of the border/padding completely if I'm correct. Only the right side has no border at the moment and keys would be next to the case, other sides will have a gap.

Another (crazy) idea: since you're moving into the direction of a Teensy-breakout controller anyway; the following idea would make use of the usb connector on the Teensy and could get rid of all borders on the PCB as the controller and usb connector on the PCB is not needed. I know you prefer an on-PCB controller, but this would have advantages...

>crazy

yes, there is already a huge fustercluck of lines on the left side of the board, which is why I decided to put the breakout on the other side, It wouldn't be impossible to do, just very very very very unnecessarily difficult to do. PCB cost's don't increase if you have long data lines :P

Honestly, I just want an on-PCB controller, it's just that someone else suggested that it would be easy and incredibly useful to have the matrix breakout somewhere, and I agreed. I was planning to make it just one straight line of pins, but decided that you could fit a teensy making it even easier to control.

relcc, stahp worrying about PCB size.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: relcc on Sat, 19 January 2013, 13:34:18
Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.

(http://i.imgur.com/6QQAY7a.png)
'Miller40' and GH60 layered

(just googled 'stahp')
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 19 January 2013, 13:41:09
Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in approximated scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.

Alright, and do you see how the GH60 was able to make that smaller? They didn't have to squeeze a controller on the side of the PCB. They only support one or two layouts that is a different bottom row (also the split-backspace now I guess). What I'm trying to say is, this thing I've designed doesn't look pretty, but holy **** does it have a whole new level of layout-customization that eclipses even the phantom. I'm pretty sure 3mm won't bother the people who get one of these :))
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 19 January 2013, 13:46:25
Lol, your avatar.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 19 January 2013, 14:00:34
Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in approximated scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.

Alright, and do you see how the GH60 was able to make that smaller? They didn't have to squeeze a controller on the side of the PCB. They only support one or two layouts that is a different bottom row (also the split-backspace now I guess). What I'm trying to say is, this thing I've designed doesn't look pretty, but holy **** does it have a whole new level of layout-customization that eclipses even the phantom. I'm pretty sure 3mm won't bother the people who get one of these :))

I just sent out your GH60 prototype. When you receive it, you'll realize it supports many more layouts than what you just mentioned. I just skimmed the pics in the recent posts, and don't see a support for ISO at all.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 19 January 2013, 14:08:22
I just sent out your GH60 prototype. When you receive it, you'll realize it supports many more layouts than what you just mentioned.

Ah yes, I forgot it had a few customizable things for the ISO and what not. One good thing about the GH60 is that all layouts use a spacebar, allowing for the placement of the controller, this PCB does not have that luxury :P

Also now that you said you've shipped it, I'll need to find some switches somewhere :s
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 19 January 2013, 22:06:26
Same... I only have plate Blacks...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: danielucf on Mon, 21 January 2013, 08:42:25
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Mon, 21 January 2013, 12:50:55
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: danielucf on Mon, 21 January 2013, 13:02:17
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.
It is because micro USB is built for 1000s of plug ins and disconnects and mini-usb is not. I've not really checked it much, but I think micro might even have a tighter connection when it is plugged in. It would also be nice to use the same cables for our phones as keyboards, then we carry less crap with us when we go places.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: noxwood on Mon, 21 January 2013, 13:14:20
Which is the one that is designed to not break the port but the cable?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 21 January 2013, 13:27:57
Which is the one that is designed to not break the port but the cable?

In my experience with things larger than phones, microUSB connectors stay attached in a fall and bend both the PCBA connector and the cable end.  Again, in my experience, MiniUSB connectors simply come out and nothing breaks.

I cannot speak to dropping a connected Rosewill keyboard!  I plan to avoid that scenario.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Mon, 21 January 2013, 15:51:59
Which is the one that is designed to not break the port but the cable?

In my experience with things larger than phones, microUSB connectors stay attached in a fall and bend both the PCBA connector and the cable end.  Again, in my experience, MiniUSB connectors simply come out and nothing breaks.

I cannot speak to dropping a connected Rosewill keyboard!  I plan to avoid that scenario.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Show Image
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

I do think that Mini-USb > Micro-USB (Due to bending and breaking, especially for something that's meant to be portable that's not a phone), but I can understand that if, for some reason, the case size requires Micro. Micro's just fine for phones (and Raspberry Pis, not to mention keyboards meant to be stationary), but I wouldn't want it on a keyboard meant to be carried around, which I can only assume is the purpose behind this keyboard (unless he is A) tight for space (not likely, based on that desk in the video) or B) just wants a tiny keyboard for some reason).
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 21 January 2013, 16:04:14
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.
It is because micro USB is built for 1000s of plug ins and disconnects and mini-usb is not. I've not really checked it much, but I think micro might even have a tighter connection when it is plugged in. It would also be nice to use the same cables for our phones as keyboards, then we carry less crap with us when we go places.
So true. Micro is way more convenient. If anyone is afraid of. Falling o ut, yout can look at the g700 slot and dock. I think micro stays in better but has a higher chance to be bent. Most of my cables don't bend or break. (Micro). I have had one that broke and fall out. It was a three meter cable from Amazon.  It was just poor quality.
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 21 January 2013, 18:15:25
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.
It is because micro USB is built for 1000s of plug ins and disconnects and mini-usb is not. I've not really checked it much, but I think micro might even have a tighter connection when it is plugged in. It would also be nice to use the same cables for our phones as keyboards, then we carry less crap with us when we go places.
So true. Micro is way more convenient. If anyone is afraid of. Falling o ut, yout can look at the g700 slot and dock. I think micro stays in better but has a higher chance to be bent. Most of my cables don't bend or break. (Micro). I have had one that broke and fall out. It was a three meter cable from Amazon.  It was just poor quality.
ive only bent cables doing stupid stuff with my phone but id rather have to buy a new cable than a new phone.
Title: Re: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 21 January 2013, 18:42:54
Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15 :p
I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.
It is because micro USB is built for 1000s of plug ins and disconnects and mini-usb is not. I've not really checked it much, but I think micro might even have a tighter connection when it is plugged in. It would also be nice to use the same cables for our phones as keyboards, then we carry less crap with us when we go places.
So true. Micro is way more convenient. If anyone is afraid of. Falling o ut, yout can look at the g700 slot and dock. I think micro stays in better but has a higher chance to be bent. Most of my cables don't bend or break. (Micro). I have had one that broke and fall out. It was a three meter cable from Amazon.  It was just poor quality.
ive only bent cables doing stupid stuff with my phone but id rather have to buy a new cable than a new phone.
I've only bent cables having other people do stupid stuff with my tablets.  And I can totally see someone grabbing a keyboard or knocking one off a desk and saying "oops!"

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: rknize on Mon, 21 January 2013, 18:51:25
Micro USB is a much better design than mini in most technical respects.  Phones (at least at my company) switched long before space was the primary concern.  Mini is much more prone to break the socket than the connector.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 21 January 2013, 20:50:34
Micro USB is a much better design than mini in most technical respects.  Phones (at least at my company) switched long before space was the primary concern.  Mini is much more prone to break the socket than the connector.

Does sure seem like it.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: MattBuzzy on Tue, 22 January 2013, 08:09:06
Wow, a crazy project indeed but looking very interesting. Good luck with it!  :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Viz on Mon, 28 January 2013, 12:50:41
Hmm, is the project stalled? :?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Mon, 28 January 2013, 13:58:08
Hmm, is the project stalled? :?

Kind of, I just started school and it was a bit more jarring than expected so I'm hoping I'll be able to pick it back up again sometime early February and get it done ASAP.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 09:20:26
I WANT 40% BOARD NAO!!11!!

T00 M4NY 60% b04|2Dz C0m1Ng t0 t3H m4|2K3t na0 4Nd i w0n'7 f33L 1337 uN13sS i h4Z 40% b04|2d...
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Alessandro on Wed, 13 February 2013, 09:24:49
I WANT 40% BOARD NAO!!11!!

T00 M4NY 60% b04|2Dz C0m1Ng t0 t3H m4|2K3t na0 4Nd i w0n'7 f33L 1337 uN13sS i h4Z 40% b04|2d...

That's no way to rush the poor guy! :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 09:27:54
I know. This is a really fun project, and I just want Kirk to know we haven't forgotten about it or lost excitement.

Still excited here!! :D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Strelok on Wed, 13 February 2013, 13:48:42
I am excited for this project. The only thing I'm worried about is the board loosing the signature shape of a keyboard. 75% boards are too square. 60% boards look right. This one may be too square.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 14:31:41
I am excited for this project. The only thing I'm worried about is the board loosing the signature shape of a keyboard. 75% boards are too square. 60% boards look right. This one may be too square.

It no look square to me...

(http://i.imgur.com/0w53a.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: gnubag on Wed, 13 February 2013, 14:56:39
I am excited for this project. The only thing I'm worried about is the board loosing the signature shape of a keyboard. 75% boards are too square. 60% boards look right. This one may be too square.

It no look square to me...

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/0w53a.png)

shouldn't this be stabilizer less? (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
how about a split spacebar then?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:01:28
There are several layout possibilities. Some of us wanted a standard spacebar. kmiller8's original design uses 1.25 mods for the entire bottom row.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:01:46
jd likes his space bar... that's juust one of a bazillion layouts (most of which have a silly number of switches on the bottom row)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:06:04
Yeah, I asked about using a WYSE 10-unit spacebar, with 1-unit keys on each end, but he wouldn't go for it. ;D
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: gnubag on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:36:56
well if there is a platee option you can still make a 10u spacebar, but also make a split spacebar layout.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 13 February 2013, 18:39:06
I think a 10 unit spacebar would be awesome, I support your goals jdcarpe. I think I have two 10x spacebars sitting around, I'd  donate one to kmiller8 if it  might help persuade him :p
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 February 2013, 18:52:04
I have LOTS of them. I mean like 12. :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 13 February 2013, 19:00:31
I have LOTS of them. I mean like 12. :)
Ok then are vintage blacks the best blacks, or blacks with 65g Korean springs?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Acetrak on Wed, 13 February 2013, 19:02:35
Why not vintage black with 65g springs? :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Strelok on Fri, 15 February 2013, 00:41:35
I vote we call it the Stealth and put the quietest switches we can find in it, which are probably those new Matias ALPS, or at least reds with landing pads.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: epicsilas on Fri, 15 February 2013, 00:45:50
I think a 10 unit spacebar would be awesome, I support your goals jdcarpe. I think I have two 10x spacebars sitting around, I'd  donate one to kmiller8 if it  might help persuade him :p
I too support the 10 unit spacebar!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: inteli722 on Fri, 15 February 2013, 06:29:29
Why not vintage black with 65g springs? :P

Why not vintage blacks with 45g springs? :P
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 27 March 2013, 23:09:36
Did we give up on this?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 02 May 2013, 01:48:07
Did we give up on this?

Got busy with ****. School ends next week. Then free time.

I promise to have this done (or at least prototyped to **** and back) by the end of summer :3
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: phetto on Thu, 02 May 2013, 02:17:06


T00 M4NY 60% b04|2Dz C0m1Ng t0 t3H m4|2K3t na0 4Nd i w0n'7 f33L 1337 uN13sS i h4Z 40% b04|2d...

^ Hahahah


where do we stand on this?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:45:22
#40%forthemassesplease!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:30:50
Always makes my day when I see an update in this thread. 

#40%forthemassesplease!

Can't agree more!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:40:30
#40%forthemassesplease!

Look for more info on this once the GH60s have shipped. Oh, I also have that Alps TKL board project. Hmmm, I've got quite a few irons in the fire, huh?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: esoomenona on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:45:00
I like to stick my iron in the fire...

(http://images.wikia.com/vampirediaries/images/1/11/If_you_know_what_I_mean_.png)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:48:41
#40%forthemassesplease!

Look for more info on this once the GH60s have shipped. Oh, I also have that Alps TKL board project. Hmmm, I've got quite a few irons in the fire, huh?

Why wait for the Gh60 to ship? Did you not get the packi I sent you?
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:57:58
#40%forthemassesplease!

Look for more info on this once the GH60s have shipped. Oh, I also have that Alps TKL board project. Hmmm, I've got quite a few irons in the fire, huh?

I'm in for an ALPS board and a 40% board.

It's probably crazy but I want a 40%-ish board to make a simplified board for my kid! ;)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: wiredPANDA on Wed, 31 July 2013, 11:24:33
I just want a 40% board.

Though now that you mention it -- making one for my kid would be cool, too.  Damn - now I need at least two.
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Tarzan on Wed, 31 July 2013, 11:53:45
Interested.  Alps plus...?

Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 31 July 2013, 12:47:21
#40%forthemassesplease!

Look for more info on this once the GH60s have shipped. Oh, I also have that Alps TKL board project. Hmmm, I've got quite a few irons in the fire, huh?

Why wait for the Gh60 to ship? Did you not get the packi I sent you?

Oh, yes I got it in the mail yesterday. And I will have my personal project complete soon-ish. But Ray asked for it for the masses. So that will take a little while. :)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 12:49:36
#40%forthemassesplease!

Look for more info on this once the GH60s have shipped. Oh, I also have that Alps TKL board project. Hmmm, I've got quite a few irons in the fire, huh?

Why wait for the Gh60 to ship? Did you not get the packi I sent you?

Oh, yes I got it in the mail yesterday. And I will have my personal project complete soon-ish. But Ray asked for it for the masses. So that will take a little while. :)

I'll take one just for me instead! (The masses can wait :P)
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: Tarzan on Wed, 31 July 2013, 13:06:34
One version of a production sub-60% model:

[attachimg=1]

I actually like the 8x spacebar on this layout, and I have several 10x spacebars I was planning to use on GH60 builds.  Watching this thread with interest!
Title: Re: kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)
Post by: oaklandishh on Tue, 13 August 2013, 03:33:13
These look awesome. I would love to make one of these from scratch.