kmiller8's 40% Board (Where we're going... we don't need stabilizers)

[Dreadwyrm]

You can drill a hole there if you want to add a trackpoint.

Oh boy yes... and if someone could actually hack it to be wireless, this would be the best traveling keyboard ever! 

[TheProfosist]

You can drill a hole there if you want to add a trackpoint.

seriously? If so just make the hole standard

[kmiller8]

Yea, I don't see why you need so much space for a hole. I'll modify the major branch less heavily later.

[alaricljs]

The size of that 'safe zone' allows the board to be modded so that it can have a centered TP between 2 switches, or the old-school nestled into the lower row option.  Or if you're silly nestled into the upper row.

[kmiller8]

I'm just gonna post this here for future reference.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261116411766

Perhaps someone could buy one and see how easy it would be to salvage the nub thingy from this board, and what kind of footprint on a PCB it would have.

Infact, screw it, I have $12 in PP, I'll order one )

[Halverson]

Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?

[kmiller8]

Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?

*cough* http://captainunlikely.blogspot.com/2012/01/bluetooth-teensyduino-and-linux.html *cough*

if someone really wants to try it Like I was explaining in IRC, I plan on making as many of the unused pins on the left side of the board usable with through-holes so that anyone can add their own boards and mods to this thing

[Halverson]

You ok? Sounds like you have a bit of a cough there!;)

Yea, I don't understand any of that stuff :/ I'll either have to learn, or hope someone else will do the hard part.

[kmiller8]

Haha, I just posted it showing that it should be possible to implement a BT module on this board.

[Halverson]

Haha, I just posted it showing that it should be possible to implement a BT module on this board.

Ya it looked pretty simple, hah!
But I did get the part that it looks doable. Looks like this could end up being one ultimate board!

[jdcarpe]

Ok I need to order like 4 of the prototype boards.

Got that trackpoint headed to me now. Thanks for the link, KM.

[kmiller8]

Ok I need to order like 4 of the prototype boards.

Got that trackpoint headed to me now. Thanks for the link, KM.

haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.

[Halverson]

Yes yes, do all the hard work boys...and let us dumb folk reap the benefits!

[jdcarpe]

haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.

Like I can wait for anything.

You just tell me where to solder that ish and I will puts it on the board.

Maybe someone has some trackpoint GHB Cherry keycaps they will sell us.

[reverkiller]

Track point in the 40%? This is sounding better all the time! Guess I'll have to contemplate ways to make it wireless now. Powered Bluetooth dongle?

*cough* http://captainunlikely.blogspot.com/2012/01/bluetooth-teensyduino-and-linux.html *cough*

if someone really wants to try it Like I was explaining in IRC, I plan on making as many of the unused pins on the left side of the board usable with through-holes so that anyone can add their own boards and mods to this thing

I read the article, and it seems you can't make an HID with this. He said that this (which costs >6x as much, but at WalletHack it should be fine ) is another option.

[Halverson]

haha, I'm not even sure if it'll work, YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME TO TEAR IT APART FIRST.

Like I can wait for anything.

You just tell me where to solder that ish and I will puts it on the board.

Maybe someone has some trackpoint GHB Cherry keycaps they will sell us.

Speaking of TP cherry caps. I've been waiting on a set. Finally may have a reason for them

[inteli722]

This would be awesome in Bluetooth with a Trackpoint. If this ends up existing, then I'll likely order one (maybe 2 ). Trackpoint + Mechanical keyboard = perfect travel companion.

Soon, you will be able to annoy ANYONE ANYWHERE! Just think: Cherry MX Blues (or Greens if those suit your fancy) in the Car, on a Plane, in a Hotel lobby! Even in a classroom for students! The possibilities of annoyance are ENDLESS!

[insert evil laugh here]

[kmiller8]

dfj has given me a wonderful idea, DUAL CONTROLLERS. This won't make sense right now, but just wait. All will be revealed.

[TheQsanity]

Wow you guys work fast.  Jd, you really already ordered prototypes?  How much was 4?

[Glod]

oh wow, just looked at this thread for the first time since it started, it sure went from putting switches on a crude cardboard mock up to something i would actually want pretty quickly, I approve

[Preach]

This is moving along nicely. I am very interested in this

[jdcarpe]

Wow you guys work fast.  Jd, you really already ordered prototypes?  How much was 4?

No one has anything, yet. The PCB design isn't finished, although the layouts are. kmiller8's live stream of this the other night was fun to watch as he designed the board to 90% complete.

[relcc]

It is going fast... Do you think We'll be able to order the 40% before the GH60 van be ordered...??

[relcc]

Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

[TheProfosist]

Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

either get them custom made or be like me and not care too much about profile cause yo uwant the nlayers on the caps and get them from wasd

[jdcarpe]

Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

This keyboard doesn't really use a top-row profile keycap at all. So the majority of novelty keys are out.
"ASDF" row 1.75x keycap is traditional Caps Lock. 1.25x key on this profile might be the only real problem.
"ZXCV" row 1.75x keycap is traditional short Right Shift. 1.25x key on this profile are all bottom row mods and short Left Shift.

[kmiller8]

Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

That is a serious concern, hmm not sure how I let that slide, I was cross-checking the keys as I went, but I overlooked that one...

It looks as if SP makes a 1.25 row 3

http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

but they don't have any blanks in stock.

http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSPBTInventory.pdf
http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSABSInventory.pdf

I guess we'll have to do a GB for caps

I'll contact SP about pricing for a hundred blanks or so and report back with my findings.

[TheProfosist]

Does anybody have suggestions about where to get 1.25 and 1.75 keycaps for row 2 and 3?

If this is a real problem a '13-key wide' version with standard-width tab, caps-lock, shift and enter keys may still be an option...

That is a serious concern, hmm not sure how I let that slide, I was cross-checking the keys as I went, but I overlooked that one...

It looks as if SP makes a 1.25 row 3

http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

but they don't have any blanks in stock.

http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSPBTInventory.pdf
http://keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DCSABSInventory.pdf

I guess we'll have to do a GB for caps

I'll contact SP about pricing for a hundred blanks or so and report back with my findings.

think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!

[kmiller8]

think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!

IDK, it's an odd profile for sure, I just popped melissa an email about 100 PBT blanks in the cheapest color they have. NOW WE WAIT.

[TheProfosist]

think wasd might be wiling to etch those? you should totally look at getting PBT!!!

IDK, it's an odd profile for sure, I just popped melissa an email about 100 PBT blanks in the cheapest color they have. NOW WE WAIT.

i dont think the profile matters so much

[kmiller8]

OK so, since I don't have school tomorrow, I stayed up late to finish this

Completed the Matrix


Cut out the ground plane to allow safer drilling (Someone help me do this better :x)


Connected all the pins to the controller


Added the option to power the board with a Teensy


Including the USB portion


Also, I just noticed I forgot to add through-holes for the unconnected pins on the 32u4. Next revision. btw, everything has been pushed to github

[alaricljs]

There's a keepout thingy... if I remember/figure it out before you I'll post.

[kmiller8]

There's a keepout thingy... if I remember/figure it out before you I'll post.

I tried it, two different ways, one from within the zone itself, and one as a separate option, neither worked properly :/

[riffautae]

Can someone with a trackpoint module laying around measure the stick diameter? I made the hole big since I didn't know what the size was. With the bigger hole I knew it would fit. Plus for people using the split middle row layout could prolly even get a mouse button or two modded up in there. I bet it would allow someone to mount a momentary tact switch next to it on the pcb and use wires to connect it to the controller.

Could you describe your issues with the larger safe zone kmiller8? We can try to make one that is less objectionable.

You haven't specified firmware yet, have you looked at the TMK firmware? It has tons of features including the ability to forward data from a ps/2 mouse which I think some thinkpad sticks are.

[relcc]

Why the border on the pcb? It will make it harder to get a proper casing for it.

[kmiller8]

Could you describe your issues with the larger safe zone kmiller8? We can try to make one that is less objectionable.

You haven't specified firmware yet, have you looked at the TMK firmware? It has tons of features including the ability to forward data from a ps/2 mouse which I think some thinkpad sticks are.

The issue with the safe zone, is that I just drew some wires there instead of properly setting up a safe zone KiCad seems to have that feature, but it wasn't working as expected, so I just did the temp-fix thing to show what I'm talking about.

I was talking about F/W with someone in IRC the other day, I'll have to get with someone about modifying a pre-existing firmware to fit my pin layout, I don't plan on doing anything with the thinkpad sticks except setting a safe zone for you guys to drill through, it's an interesting idea, but I don't want to deal with it

[relcc]

kmiller8, do you have a picture of the different possible bottom rows together? It's hard to make out possible layouts from the PCB. Thanks

[relcc]

PCB suggestion.

To prevent te extra border on top, would it be an idea to make the usb connector break out a little (like many keyboard PCB designs) and try to bring the 'teensy connector' closer to the center. The column connections may also be drawn from the connections at the bottom row..?? Otherwise you would have a gap between the top keys and possible keyboard case....

(btw, why not bring the 'teensy connector' to the other side of the board.. That may prevent having to draw many long datalines)


PCB image mockup!! not a real design

[relcc]

Above suggestions doesnt get rid of the border/padding completely if I'm correct. Only the right side has no border at the moment and keys would be next to the case, other sides will have a gap.

Another (crazy) idea: since you're moving into the direction of a Teensy-breakout controller anyway; the following idea would make use of the usb connector on the Teensy and could get rid of all borders on the PCB as the controller and usb connector on the PCB is not needed. I know you prefer an on-PCB controller, but this would have advantages...


PCB image 'hack'; not a real design!

[kmiller8]

kmiller8, do you have a picture of the different possible bottom rows together? It's hard to make out possible layouts from the PCB. Thanks

Here ya go. I came up with the bottom two while working on the others, all the others are suggestions by the people.



While I was at it, I decided to take another one of these.



If my math is correct, there's almost a possible 800 different layouts o.o

PCB suggestion.

To prevent te extra border on top, would it be an idea to make the usb connector break out a little (like many keyboard PCB designs) and try to bring the 'teensy connector' closer to the center. The column connections may also be drawn from the connections at the bottom row..?? Otherwise you would have a gap between the top keys and possible keyboard case....

(btw, why not bring the 'teensy connector' to the other side of the board.. That may prevent having to draw many long datalines)

I see no reason to shave 2mm off the top of the board and force myself to completely redo the top lines. Have you ever taken apart a keyboard case, the case doesn't go straight vertical where the pcb ends.

Above suggestions doesnt get rid of the border/padding completely if I'm correct. Only the right side has no border at the moment and keys would be next to the case, other sides will have a gap.

Another (crazy) idea: since you're moving into the direction of a Teensy-breakout controller anyway; the following idea would make use of the usb connector on the Teensy and could get rid of all borders on the PCB as the controller and usb connector on the PCB is not needed. I know you prefer an on-PCB controller, but this would have advantages...

>crazy

yes, there is already a huge fustercluck of lines on the left side of the board, which is why I decided to put the breakout on the other side, It wouldn't be impossible to do, just very very very very unnecessarily difficult to do. PCB cost's don't increase if you have long data lines

Honestly, I just want an on-PCB controller, it's just that someone else suggested that it would be easy and incredibly useful to have the matrix breakout somewhere, and I agreed. I was planning to make it just one straight line of pins, but decided that you could fit a teensy making it even easier to control.

relcc, stahp worrying about PCB size.

[relcc]

Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.


'Miller40' and GH60 layered

(just googled 'stahp')

[kmiller8]

Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in approximated scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.

Alright, and do you see how the GH60 was able to make that smaller? They didn't have to squeeze a controller on the side of the PCB. They only support one or two layouts that is a different bottom row (also the split-backspace now I guess). What I'm trying to say is, this thing I've designed doesn't look pretty, but holy **** does it have a whole new level of layout-customization that eclipses even the phantom. I'm pretty sure 3mm won't bother the people who get one of these )

[TheQsanity]

Lol, your avatar.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Ok, I'll stop (stahp) worrying about PCB size, but do look at the following image where the PCB of the GH60 (or any other board) is layered ontop of the 'miller40' (in approximated scale). With the GH60 (and Pure, Poker etc) the pcb is about the same size as the reach of the keycaps. With your current board the pcb would be 5 mm higher and 3 mm more to the left as the key caps.

Alright, and do you see how the GH60 was able to make that smaller? They didn't have to squeeze a controller on the side of the PCB. They only support one or two layouts that is a different bottom row (also the split-backspace now I guess). What I'm trying to say is, this thing I've designed doesn't look pretty, but holy **** does it have a whole new level of layout-customization that eclipses even the phantom. I'm pretty sure 3mm won't bother the people who get one of these )

I just sent out your GH60 prototype. When you receive it, you'll realize it supports many more layouts than what you just mentioned. I just skimmed the pics in the recent posts, and don't see a support for ISO at all.

[kmiller8]

I just sent out your GH60 prototype. When you receive it, you'll realize it supports many more layouts than what you just mentioned.

Ah yes, I forgot it had a few customizable things for the ISO and what not. One good thing about the GH60 is that all layouts use a spacebar, allowing for the placement of the controller, this PCB does not have that luxury

Also now that you said you've shipped it, I'll need to find some switches somewhere :s

[TheQsanity]

Same... I only have plate Blacks...

[danielucf]

Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15

[inteli722]

Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15

I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.

[danielucf]

Make it micro USB. I might forget that I posted this and post it again on page 15

I'm not entirely sure why people want Micro-USB. I generally prefer Mini-USB or (if the size of the board permits it) Full-size USB B. I feel Micro-USB is too thin and insecure.

It is because micro USB is built for 1000s of plug ins and disconnects and mini-usb is not. I've not really checked it much, but I think micro might even have a tighter connection when it is plugged in. It would also be nice to use the same cables for our phones as keyboards, then we carry less crap with us when we go places.

[noxwood]

Which is the one that is designed to not break the port but the cable?