geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Leslieann on Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:43:27
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I bought the KBT/Vortex Race back in November and since it came from overseas, it took about 2 weeks, so early December is about when it arrived.
Two weeks after getting it, the case itself started showing serious signs of wear. The case is an off white plastic with eggshell white paint over it and the paint is VERY easy to scratch off, I let this slide because I always planned on an aluminum chassis. I also planned to replace all of the keys at some point. So why am I mad? Yesterday, I noticed that several keys are already signs of wearing through. 6 WEEKS!
Now, I realize that I use my computer A LOT, enough that I tend to a kill top of the line Logitech mouse about once every year to year and a half. However, I have never worn through keys, in fact I have never even ever worn off the legends. I have had 2 Logitech Illuminated, and a Black Widow Ultimate, all of which went about a year without any sign of wear before being retired, and this has completely worn through in 6 lousy weeks. Unacceptable. I always knew these keys felt strange, but didn't know why, others have commented on it as well. I always attributed it to being the type of plastic used. Upon further inspection, I'm pretty sure that all they did was paint the keys. No clear coat, just white paint over the tops.
I still love the layout, I still think they have a nice circuit board, and a nice look, but I'm stunned. I can't understand why would you make a high end keyboard with painted, unprotected keys. I can't be the first to wear through them in a short time either.
Anyone know how to get in touch with the manufacturer?
Pics (ignore the dust specs and image quality).
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just get new key caps?
a whole set is $50...
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The style of caps just tend to wear from heavy use, don't think there is a lot you can do. Although, possibly the ducky led caps are of higher quality...
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So sorry to hear this Leslieann. :-[
I switched from the Race S to the Pure and noticed a big difference in the key caps as well. Both sets are laser etched, but the ones on the Race S I don't think were sealed, or something to that affect.
Clearly I didn't use the keyboard as much as you have, but it totally sucks to see chipping, or wear THAT fast. I agree it's unacceptable.
With that white PCB and white LED, had I stuck with the Race, I would have replaced the caps with something solid and just let the LED illuminate around the keys. How important to you is it to have the illuminated keys, vs the reflective backlight?
Of course it's harder to replace all the keys on the Race given the layout. :(
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just get new key caps?
a whole set is $50...
$50, and how long will those last? I'm certainly not getting stock ones again.
Also being a compact keyboard, I can't just buy any old set of keycaps.
The style of caps just tend to wear from heavy use, don't think there is a lot you can do. Although, possibly the ducky led caps are of higher quality...
They do, and I expected it, but not after only 6 weeks. Like I said, the three other backlit boards lasted over a year under similar use without any signs of wear. These keys are just plain junk.
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I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.
These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.
I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.
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Agreed. Typical Vortex.
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looks cheap that paint :(
i got the regular race backlit..seems to be better..holding up just fine after several months..
whats the different anyway with the S model?
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The S model is painted. And maybe it came with special LED colors or something. Also a different colored PCB I think.
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whats the different anyway with the S model?
- White PCB
- White LED
- "Special" White or Pink key caps
I posted a photo set of my pink one at this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/sets/72157632249976584/).
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Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"
Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends. There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys. They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.
Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw
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Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"
Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends. There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys. They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.
Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw
Who said I was blaming Vortex exclusively? Thermaltake's just as bad, as is anyone else using the same junk ABS keycaps. The Meka G1 is a brilliant keyboard but I can't possibly recommend it because the keycaps are so low quality. $150 MSRP and the keycaps are worse quality than an old $20 rubber dome.
Though let's be honest - at least Thermaltake has a way to contact them for support. Vortex is the only 'high end' keyboard 'manufacturer' I've seen which seems to go to great lengths to ensure customers can never, ever reach them by any means ever.
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I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.
These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.
I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.
Keyboards in general is a very inexpensive hobby. Yelling you lungs out on a forum about a manufacturer won't solve the problems...
$50 will.
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I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps. I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones. The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish. The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon. I don't think they are coated.
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Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"
Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends. There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys. They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.
Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw
Who said I was blaming Vortex exclusively? Thermaltake's just as bad, as is anyone else using the same junk ABS keycaps. The Meka G1 is a brilliant keyboard but I can't possibly recommend it because the keycaps are so low quality. $150 MSRP and the keycaps are worse quality than an old $20 rubber dome.
Though let's be honest - at least Thermaltake has a way to contact them for support. Vortex is the only 'high end' keyboard 'manufacturer' I've seen which seems to go to great lengths to ensure customers can never, ever reach them by any means ever.
Hey there, hi and hello~ can I make you some chamomile tea? Didn't notice you.
I know I can reach Thermaltake as I review for them. Vortex has never responded to myself or other members of RWLabs. It seems like they make products for other companies to support, and to get recognized you need to be one of their vendors.
This isn't the first time you've run into that sort of stonewall? I get it all the time from companies expressing my need to deal with the store at which the product was purchased. Their operations just simply do not exist outside of the warehouse/factory.
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Shoulda bought a razer....... lol
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I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.
These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.
I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.
Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps. There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago. It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps. If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price. They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.
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You're probably out of luck. iMav ran a few group buys of several thousand dollars worth of boards and it seemed like a struggle for him to get Vortex to give him the time of day.
Considering what I went through to get this keyboard, I have zero expectations, but sending them a nasty email would sure make me feel better.
I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps. I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones. The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish. The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon. I don't think they are coated.
Exactly!
The texture is odd, but I honestly didn't expect painted key caps when I bought this.
Shoulda bought a razer....... lol
I have one, and after almost a year of use, it looks like new. Same goes for my Das, and my Logitech Illuminated. I have never seen a keyboard have issues so fast.
Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps. There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago. It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps. If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price. They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.
I completely agree.
At one point I actually considered buying a Rosewill as it's a cheap way to get a set of keycaps.
There is no reason that caps cost more than the switches, which can cost as much as the keyboard on their own.
keycaps $100
Switches $100
Complete keyboard with switches, keycaps, key puller, detachable cable, spare keycaps $100
????
This is why WASD rocks: Don't like the keycaps? No problem - you can buy a board without them.
I just ordered a set from them as it's the cheapest, fastest way to get a set that will work for the Race. The top row may be a tad short, but otherwise it will work fine with some creative editing to the legends. I ordered a full set and tweaked it.
Thing is, I shouldn't have had to, especially at only 6 weeks old.
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You're probably out of luck. iMav ran a few group buys of several thousand dollars worth of boards and it seemed like a struggle for him to get Vortex to give him the time of day.
Considering what I went through to get this keyboard, I have zero expectations, but sending them a nasty email would sure make me feel better.
I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps. I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones. The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish. The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon. I don't think they are coated.
Exactly!
The texture is odd, but I honestly didn't expect painted key caps when I bought this.
Shoulda bought a razer....... lol
I have one, and after almost a year of use, it looks like new. Same goes for my Das, and my Logitech Illuminated. I have never seen a keyboard have issues so fast.
Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps. There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago. It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps. If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price. They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.
I completely agree.
At one point I actually considered buying a Rosewill as it's a cheap way to get a set of keycaps.
There is no reason that caps cost more than the switches, which can cost as much as the keyboard on their own.
keycaps $100
Switches $100
Complete keyboard with switches, keycaps, key puller, detachable cable, spare keycaps $100
????
This is why WASD rocks: Don't like the keycaps? No problem - you can buy a board without them.
I just ordered a set from them as it's the cheapest, fastest way to get a set that will work for the Race. The top row may be a tad short, but otherwise it will work fine with some creative editing to the legends. I ordered a full set and tweaked it.
Thing is, I shouldn't have had to, especially at only 6 weeks old.
You should get
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37225.0 For your main keys and
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38563.0 for the Race weird size keys.
Not to say that you have to buy new caps and shut up as it seems our resident trollbrain wants to suggest, but because those are cool caps that match and would fit your race perfect.
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I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
I've had my KBT Oni for about 2 months now and I'm still amazed by it's overall quality, including the keycaps. The lasered PBT keycaps are the best I've seen in a stock keybord (perhaps just not better than the PBT Leopold, Ducky and the Topre boards) and its build quality is as good as my Filco.
If the Race has a problem, that's bad and they should be accountable. But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.
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I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
...
But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.
It doesn't matter if a company makes the best product ever if their customer support is nil when a lemon is inevitably shipped.
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Sadly the paint coming off is a common issue and has a few threads on here mentioning it, I believe.
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Hopefully this doesn't happen to me as i was looking into getting a race next
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Hopefully this doesn't happen to me as i was looking into getting a race next
Also watch out for LED problems.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35440.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27595.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29437.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=24422.600
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=24422.600
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35447.0
Just to show you a couple of threads.
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The race looks AMAZING in pictures imo, but isn't one of their most solidly constructed boards. I still want one though. :3
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I am making it a point in the future not to give Vortex any more of my money. Both the Race and DIY Poker GBs were delayed for many months without word and ended up being all screwed up. While their products are interesting and cool, their quality, consistency, and customer service vary from questionable to horrible.
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I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
I've had my KBT Oni for about 2 months now and I'm still amazed by it's overall quality, including the keycaps. The lasered PBT keycaps are the best I've seen in a stock keybord (perhaps just not better than the PBT Leopold, Ducky and the Topre boards) and its build quality is as good as my Filco.
If the Race has a problem, that's bad and they should be accountable. But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.
I heard Oni/One is built in the same factory as Filcos. Which is more than you can say than most board touted as Costar.
There are some that bashes Vortex like a broken record, but they deserve every bit of scorn thrown their way. We're not bashing Vortex because they have some duds. We're bashing Vortex because of their continual bad business decisions. You'll be in the same boat if they hold your money on hostage for over a year on pre-orders, then completely unresponsive when probed about it. There are tons of internal issues they need to fix if they want to be a real company.
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Where Vortex is from? Mainland China?
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Where Vortex is from? Mainland China?
Taiwan
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
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And Filco switched to laser awhile ago.
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Hey there, hi and hello~ can I make you some chamomile tea? Didn't notice you.
Mmmm, tea, yes please. And scones. *monocle*
I know I can reach Thermaltake as I review for them. Vortex has never responded to myself or other members of RWLabs. It seems like they make products for other companies to support, and to get recognized you need to be one of their vendors.
Same here, well, at least could - don't know who's running things post-Weller. (Talk about one of those emails that makes you sadface.) I've completely given up on reaching Vortex for any sort of review sample, forget presales. Yes, presales. And KBTalking's proven equally worthless - supposedly they make it yet they know nothing about it? Uh. Yeah. Something ain't right there.
This isn't the first time you've run into that sort of stonewall? I get it all the time from companies expressing my need to deal with the store at which the product was purchased. Their operations just simply do not exist outside of the warehouse/factory.
No stonewalling; I've had VERY long delays with Thermaltake going through retail though. Never had an actual stonewall though. SteelSeries, even through retail, has always taken care of me. (I pretty much insist on not abusing back channels for support except during reviews. Just ask engineering.)
Reason I brought up Thermaltake is because they do have a support organization that doesn't exist purely to go "blah blah return to point of sale." But a lot of these supposed "high end" manufacturers? Don't. They have zero support. And they expect me to pay a super-premium price, for a sub-par product, with a ridiculous amount of markup, and they won't even stand behind it.
And I'm beyond tired of the claims of keycaps costing $X. Again, Unicomp sells a complete set of high quality dye-sublimation PBT keycaps for $25. That is the economies of scale. Do you know what the junk ABS keycaps Ducky switched to cost them? Probably less than $10 for the set. Quality keycaps do not cost manufacturers $60, period. If they did, keyboards would cost far, far more. Small order quantities like group buys cost more, because they aren't making thousands and thousands of them and there is no steady stream of future orders for the parts. (More group buys != future orders.)
So when a manufacturer like Filco cranks out say, 50,000 keyboards all using the same keycap set, it does not bloody well cost them $60 for those keycaps. It costs them $10. For the SET. Colors? Do not cost $5 a keycap. They want to sell you the cheapest crap they can source at the super-premium price, then you say 'oh well it was me' and instead of recognizing a low quality product, go spend money you shouldn't have to for one of mediocre quality.
It is the penultimate example of throwing good money after bad hardware. You buy a junk keyboard at a showoff price - let's say a Filco at $150 with ABS keys. You show it off for two weeks and then it looks like ass because ABS pad printed junk. So you 'fix' that by spending $65 for keycaps which are not total failure. Only to find out that THEY fail in 6 months. So you buy another $75 set of keycaps promising they'll be better. And they're not.
So you're now out $290 + $50 S&H = $340 for a $150 keyboard. That still doesn't look or work as advertised. You bought a keyboard so bad that you had to buy a second keyboard to replace it.
This is not 'modding' this is not 'the keyboard way' this is not 'zen.' This is unrestrained stupidity. And instead of fighting manufacturers cranking out this swill, you make excuses, say how it could be worse, and insult posters for making the reasonable statement that a super-premium mechanical keyboad hewn by the hands of god should not have such glaring and repeated and well known defects, and a record of refusing to acknowledge them or blame them on others.
Razer Syndrome.
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow! When did the price go down? Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00. And they were not on Amazon iirc.
Thanx for the infos!
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow! When did the price go down? Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00. And they were not on Amazon iirc.
Thanx for the infos!
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_1421
Australia!
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You should get
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37225.0 For your main keys and
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38563.0 for the Race weird size keys.
Not to say that you have to buy new caps and shut up as it seems our resident trollbrain wants to suggest, but because those are cool caps that match and would fit your race perfect.
I have been watching and considering it for a while (it's my favorite set of caps), however the specials will not match the rest as well as I would like (I'm a bit OCD). If they were all from the same manufacturer, I would have been on the list a while back. I went to WASD and got everything in one go. It's not red on white, but it will be consistent, look good and stay that way. I plan to keep watching group buys as well though.
I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
I have been a supporter of this board since I got it, and I still like it. The PCB sizing looks and layout are great which is really all I bought it for, however the keys and chassis being painted (badly) is not right.
As I said, I fully planned on replacing both at some point, but do you honestly think it's okay to have to replace both after only 6 weeks and after spending over $150 on it? Luckily, I can afford it, but imagine the 14 year old who saved for the last year for a keyboard only to have this happen to them.
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Aside from special cases like Deck, any backlit board is going to end up this way. Obviously they should last longer than that. If you love the layout and want quality caps, the Noppo is probably more what you want.
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@rootwyrm: KBTalKingUSA is setup by Zippy to import KBT Pro only. If you asked them for Vortex board, duh. They don't have anything to do with Vortex.
I blame the price on the channel. If Unicomp sold to distributors, and distributors sells them to retailers, you'd see highly inflated price too.
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@rootwyrm: KBTalKingUSA is setup by Zippy to import KBT Pro only. If you asked them for Vortex board, duh. They don't have anything to do with Vortex.
Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.
I'd poke my contacts at the Zippy/Emacs mothership PSU department to put me in touch with the keyboard folks, but honestly? I'm not going to drop $125 on what may or may not be a quality keyboard when I know full well Vortex won't stand behind it either way.
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow! When did the price go down? Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00. And they were not on Amazon iirc.
Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
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Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.
There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.
Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.
Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.
KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow! When did the price go down? Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00. And they were not on Amazon iirc.
Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
well 1 year+ ago the Limited Edition Linear R Filco MX red was around those prices new.
but that was b4 they released the MJ2 in red switches.
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Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.
There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.
Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.
Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.
KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com
You are a fountain of information. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As a newb to all this, I found it extremely frustrating trying to figure out who all these entities were and why I couldn't just go to a simple web site and order it. MechanicalKeyboards.com was very helpful, but even still, your level of insight is impressive.
Again, thank you.
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The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing. That is why I refused to buy a Filco. Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow! When did the price go down? Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00. And they were not on Amazon iirc.
Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
well 1 year+ ago the Limited Edition Linear R Filco MX red was around those prices new.
but that was b4 they released the MJ2 in red switches.
Recently there was a period of some months where Filcos were not available in the USA directly so one had to get them from TheKeyboardCo in UK for approximately $200.00
Anywayz, all that matters is that Filcos with cherry mx Red switches and front printed keys are $160.00 on Amazon today. Will they be there when my 2nd Rosewill breaks and I am ready to buy? Who knows...
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There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.
Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.
Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.
KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com
Sigh. Methinks you do not comprehend the workings of ODM/OEM/CDM relationships in the detail you think you do.
Really - an all new design shop that can bend manufacturers to their whim but can also somehow offer small run keyboards at competitive prices when compared to CM Storm, Ducky, etcetera despite having no verifiable presence anywhere and no significant in-house manufacturing capabilities? Come on. It's already failing the smell test right there. Don't believe me? Look up prices on the "Vortex KBT ONE" - $122 for 109 keys with PBT keycaps. You either have to be moving some serious quantity to get prices competitive, or relying on an existing design with a limited change set. (Which by the way, doesn't rule out chassis changes - but usually rules out wholesale electronics changes.)
Case in point would be the KBT Pro / Zippy BW7050 - $170 direct (http://kbtalkingusa.com/). And yes, it is without any question a Zippy BW-7050 (http://www.zippy.com.tw/K_Product_detail.asp?pk_rfnbr=310&pk_code=BW-7050&pk_name=Enhanced%20Multi-pairing%20Function:%20Dual%20mode%20wired/%20wireless%20combo%20Mechanical%20Keyboard%20%28Bluetooth%203.0%29&pck_name=Bluetooth%20%26%20Wired%20Combo%20Keyboard&lv_rfnbr=2). What, you didn't think everyone used the CST-104 purely because it's a solid design, did you? Do you really think everybody goes through the very expensive process of doing a whole new design from scratch, then making all new tooling just so they can sell maybe one or two thousand keyboards essentially at a loss? Hell, the Das Ultimate (mk2) is CST-104 electronics and PCBs.
Might not be a Zippy/EMACS design (hint: they do not list all their ODM models publicly. Nobody does.) But come on - somehow Vortex can make a profit while doing all their own design and manufacturing while selling maybe a few hundred of any given model? And offer them at prices lower than Ducky and Filco despite having significantly less units to make up design and manufacturing costs?
Common sense says it's just not possible. Not unless, as I said, they're badge-engineering. I might buy the Race being a jobbed board, but really, Vortex just fails every single sniff test.
EDIT: Can't believe I missed it before. KBT ONE == Ducky 1008L! The added 4 above the numpad give it away.
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i will say that i'm not exactly happy with the quality of the Race myself, it was really a spontaneous buy lol
i bought the mx white / pbt key Race from qtan back in mid september (this one http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=210)
when i first got it i was kind of annoyed at the flexing of the pcb and noise coming from behind in, so i put foam underneath the pcb.
Using it 1 month the printing on the keys started fading bad, it got some decent use since i was traveling with it in October but really i don't use it lately; it doesn't even have any switches or key caps on it right now for me to show you guys the fading lol.
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Even though I bought keys from WASD last night, I'm really a bit annoyed about the whole thing.
I went looking at Noppoos and Keycool, frankly I find them ugly. The looks were one of the major attractions to the Race.
At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.
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At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.
Already in the works:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38847.0
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Even though I bought keys from WASD last night, I'm really a bit annoyed about the whole thing.
I went looking at Noppoos and Keycool, frankly I find them ugly. The looks were one of the major attractions to the Race.
At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.
it's not a perfect solution, but look at the mxmini, too
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There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.
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There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.
Soon™
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There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.
Soon™
SmallFry Soon™ ?
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There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.
Soon™
SmallFry Soon™ ?
Yessir! Hahaha!
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Well I attacked this from two directions...
First I ordered a custom set of keys from WASD tailored to work on the Race. OMG are those guys fast, I ordered a custom set Thursday night, they shipped Friday afternoon and will be here Monday. By the way, if anyone wants the layout that works for the Race, let me know, I have the pattern saved there, just change the color and you are set.
Unfortunately, after ordering those I was still annoyed at the whole situation, and just got more and more ticked off as time went on and went on the hunt for alternatives.
I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.
Overkill? Absolutely! :D
Edit - Just saw some more info on the Vortex case and as I feared, it's pretty much garbage, so at some point I will be investing in the MKC unless I can find an alternative. Vortex not only apparently "forgot"to include feet, but also managed to forget standoffs or even holes for standoffs for the PCB. :rolleyes:
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I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.
Overkill? Absolutely! :D
And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it! :))
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I'm pretty sure the only way to get MKC anymore is to wait for one to pop up second-hand since he/they are trying to get into the custom keyboard creation stuff.
I do know that there should be a custom case getting built for the phantom soon (a custom pcb built to go into a filco case), so that's a possibility for a cool case, too.
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I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.
Overkill? Absolutely! :D
And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it! :))
She invented her own switch a long time back. She was already in up to her neck. :D
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And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it! :))
Honestly, all things considered, ordering a Filco is the most tame thing I have done.
Some here would call me a mad scientist, or just plain mad. ;)
I'm pretty sure the only way to get MKC anymore is to wait for one to pop up second-hand since he/they are trying to get into the custom keyboard creation stuff.
I do know that there should be a custom case getting built for the phantom soon (a custom pcb built to go into a filco case), so that's a possibility for a cool case, too.
I'm a patient person except when it comes to two things... Traffic and computers. I HATE waiting on anything computer related. Waiting on a group to agree on a design and actually produce something isn't something I'm good at. And yes, I know the MKC can be hard to find.
I started reconsidering the Vortex due to availability and cost, but came to the conclusion that in the amount of time it will take to make it decent, I could have earned more than enough to buy an MKC case and just gotten a better case.
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there have been times where I've thought about taking one of the drawing files and just paying extra for a one off, so I understand the impatience. I hate traffic, too
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Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.
Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.
There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.
Difference:
(http://piclair.com/data/qa1ui.jpg)
Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.
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Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.
Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.
There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.
Difference:
Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.
Oh, I beg to differ.
The only way they could actually be worse is if they fell apart on day one, the chassis lost paint on day 3 and the keys by week 6.
Combine it with zero customer service, and lots of other problem reports and I really hesitate to give that company anything, much less buying another set of very similar keys, in a color I purposely avoided from said same company. I spent a lot of money on this to just watch it decompose while I watched, I'm not doing it again.
Yes, the top row will be a little lower than stock, but those keys aren't used as much and they will work just fine, in fact it will actually help to reduce hitting them on accident.
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are there any readily available kbt race analogs made by a saner company?
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There is the Noppo Choc Mini, which is not backlit, and the Key Cool 84.
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Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.
Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.
There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.
Difference:
Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.
Oh, I beg to differ.
The only way they could actually be worse is if they fell apart on day one, the chassis lost paint on day 3 and the keys by week 6.
Combine it with zero customer service, and lots of other problem reports and I really hesitate to give that company anything, much less buying another set of very similar keys, in a color I purposely avoided from said same company. I spent a lot of money on this to just watch it decompose while I watched, I'm not doing it again.
Yes, the top row will be a little lower than stock, but those keys aren't used as much and they will work just fine, in fact it will actually help to reduce hitting them on accident.
:'( I just bought that vortex aluminum chassis... fingers crossed.
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I got my WASD keys!
Looks great, they even threw in a keycap puller.
I got spares, (as you can see) because it was a 104 key set. There was concern mentioned that the F keys would be too low, below is a side profile shot (you can also see how beatup the case paint is as well. I'm not a brute, it only takes a fingernail lightly dragging across it to scrape off paint.
I did a few things, if you look close, the font is small, I went size 7 font, what you cannot see is the secondary lasered markings, which have the media functions and such on them. You also may notice the FN key is short, I have normal height one as well, but I use a lower (row 1) key in order to reduce accidentally hitting it when I hit backspace as it opens the calculator when you do.
I had enough spare keys to make white, red, and purple esc, as well as a white and purple del and FN keys. By ordering a single extra key I was also able to make the purple wasd keys. You may note that the esc and del keys are narrow, they are, but I also have full width ones, unfortunately they sit lower like my FN key. This is really the only concession I had to make for keys, that and narrow width arrow keys, but you could order a wide set too. I also got a set of purple arrow keys (blank, just like the white ones).
All in all, I'm quite happy with how these turned out. I no longer have backlit keys, but the keyboard still glows.
I did make one mistake on my order, I accidentally made the purple "D" key lower case, Considering how many changes I made, that's not bad.
Here (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-custom-keyboard.html?kt=1&k=1&s=bf38970e96dee81ef0b4b76c2feb1a2a)is the pattern, I fixed the D key, you just need an extra S key for a extra set of WASD keys.
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Hi Leslieann
Please PM me.
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I got my WASD keys!
Looks great, they even threw in a keycap puller.
I got spares, (as you can see) because it was a 104 key set. There was concern mentioned that the F keys would be too low, below is a side profile shot (you can also see how beatup the case paint is as well. I'm not a brute, it only takes a fingernail lightly dragging across it to scrape off paint.
I did a few things, if you look close, the font is small, I went size 7 font, what you cannot see is the secondary lasered markings, which have the media functions and such on them. You also may notice the FN key is short, I have normal height one as well, but I use a lower (row 1) key in order to reduce accidentally hitting it when I hit backspace as it opens the calculator when you do.
I had enough spare keys to make white, red, and purple esc, as well as a white and purple del and FN keys. By ordering a single extra key I was also able to make the purple wasd keys. You may note that the esc and del keys are narrow, they are, but I also have full width ones, unfortunately they sit lower like my FN key. This is really the only concession I had to make for keys, that and narrow width arrow keys, but you could order a wide set too. I also got a set of purple arrow keys (blank, just like the white ones).
All in all, I'm quite happy with how these turned out. I no longer have backlit keys, but the keyboard still glows.
I did make one mistake on my order, I accidentally made the purple "D" key lower case, Considering how many changes I made, that's not bad.
Here (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-custom-keyboard.html?kt=1&k=1&s=bf38970e96dee81ef0b4b76c2feb1a2a)is the pattern, I fixed the D key, you just need an extra S key for a extra set of WASD keys.
That's not a fitting set. You have the wrong size on escape, arrow keys and delete...The top FN key seems to be the wrong height aswell.
If you are fine with it, then that's all that matters. But others should not be tricked into thinking that Race keycaps are replaced so easily, because they are not.
The Limited Edition Race is flawed. The paint on both case and keys are sh*t.
I was preaching this months ago.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36083.msg674731#msg674731
The normal Race is fine in terms of paint. I've been typing on the original black keycaps for 5 months now without sign of wear.
A Race with black original keycaps and alu casing of your choosing is the way to go for a perfect KBT Race experience.
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That's not a fitting set. You have the wrong size on escape, arrow keys and delete...The top FN key seems to be the wrong height aswell.
If you are fine with it, then that's all that matters. But others should not be tricked into thinking that Race keycaps are replaced so easily, because they are not.
The normal Race is fine in terms of paint. I've been typing on the original black keycaps for 5 months now without sign of wear.
A Race with black original keycaps and alu casing of your choosing is the way to go for a perfect KBT Race experience.
I addressed almost all of those issues in my post, and I never said it was perfect:
The short FN key was done on purpose. I tend to nick the FN key when I hit backspace (which opens the calculator) and using a lower height FN key helps.
My last 5 keyboards or so have been black and I wanted something different, you can't throw a rock without hitting a black keyboard these days.
As for the short width keys, one of the reasons I liked the Race was the white pcb, using short width keys wasn't an issue for me as it allows the pcb to show, but you could easily get a set of normal width arrow keys from WASD for a few bucks, the full width esc and del key are the only keys that will either be short in height or width, one or the other. Both are keys you don't hit on a regular basis.
At any rate, Vortex has offered me a set of PBT caps as replacements.
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At any rate, Vortex has offered me a set of PBT caps as replacements.
Then why the hell didn't they do it right in the first place?
This kind of crap is beyond offputting. If you're shipping known defective or poor quality parts and I have to wait till YOU reach out to me because you provide NO method to reach you, why on EARTH would I not be warning everyone and their brother to stay the hell away?
I was giving serious consideration to a Vortex KBT ONE since it's one of the few keyboards out there with PBT keycaps. But how on earth am I supposed to trust it when we know they're shipping known defective parts? And what am I supposed to do when something goes wrong? Post all over Twitter and here and hope that maybe they'll get around to asking me to PM them since they provide no way to contact them? How many Race owners are out $50+ replacing keycaps they never should have had to, that COULDN'T reach Vortex, that DIDN'T get the same offer?
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If you want to complain to Vortex, get in line.
Like most other "excotic manufacturers" (korea,taiwan etc) they make awesome stuff but quality is not guaranteed.
If you get problems, you should contact your vendor first, as with any electronics product.
If you want to be safe when buying these special keyboards, you have to do your homework first.
There is a reason these things don't make it to real stores like best buy etc.
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Actually the reason they don't make it to retail is because they A) don't make enough quantity B) won't promise enough to the retailers. That's how it actually works.
Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic." It's about as exotic as Starbucks coffee. And when I'm paying that ridiculous premium, there is no excuse for making it impossible to contact the manufacturer, period. The premium is supposed to result in two things - a better product and better support. Name one other supposedly legitimate vendor with less accessibility.
You want to talk exotic? Fine, let's talk exotic. Exotic is a 1U sized slot-bus connected 4+1 power supply system where each unit is rated at 1650W with diverse ground on input. (I still don't even understand if/how/why that part matters.) Exotic is a Zippy/EMACS DPSM-6550F (http://www.zippy.com.tw/P_product_detail.asp?lv_rfnbr=2&pp_rfnbr=1353&pcp_rfnbr=27&pp_name=&pcp_name=PS2+&pcpw_rfnbr=5&pp_code=DPSM-6550F) -48VDC PSU which carries a 3 year warranty, three email addresses, two US telephone numbers and two US locations for support and warranty service. THAT'S exotic. Or PC Power & Cooling (pre-OCZ buyout) who designed and built my custom WTX power supplies.
Claiming it's "exotic" is just making more pathetic apologies for a shady, unethical faux manufacturer. If I REALLY need to contact Ducky, Filco, Topre, Fujitsu, and so on they all have actual websites, actual contact information, and actual presences. To say nothing of manufacturers offering keyboards at lower prices like Unicomp, where you can get actually exotic, and actually reach support. I mean hell, KBtalKing themselves even has an actual web presence and contact method.
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Then why the hell didn't they do it right in the first place?
This kind of crap is beyond offputting. If you're shipping known defective or poor quality parts and I have to wait till YOU reach out to me because you provide NO method to reach you, why on EARTH would I not be warning everyone and their brother to stay the hell away?
I was giving serious consideration to a Vortex KBT ONE since it's one of the few keyboards out there with PBT keycaps. But how on earth am I supposed to trust it when we know they're shipping known defective parts? And what am I supposed to do when something goes wrong? Post all over Twitter and here and hope that maybe they'll get around to asking me to PM them since they provide no way to contact them? How many Race owners are out $50+ replacing keycaps they never should have had to, that COULDN'T reach Vortex, that DIDN'T get the same offer?
I agree with you, it's frustrating.
With a little effort I think they could do quite well, the product looks nice. I really like the Race, it's a great little board in terms of shape and design, but it seems rather typical of Chinese manufacturing.
I know a few people who had stuff made over there and the impression I got was that it was like dealing with black market sharks/mafia. You either watch every move or be VERY specific about every single thing (even then you can get screwed). If you leave any opening for them to save a buck, they will take it, regardless of whether it destroys the product or not. It's very much buyer beware at the manufacturing level, and this applies to their suppliers as well.
When they get it right, they can make some fantastic stuff, but it takes a lot of effort and policing to do it.
real stores like best buy etc.
:))
Actually major chains only carry a product if they see a demand for it first, not the other way around.
It's sort of a catch 22, how can you establish a demand if they don't see or know of your product, yet they have a hard time finding or knowing about your product without the store. The internet has helped, but the same rules still apply, unless they see demand for it directly, you won't get in.
Besides, you would probably be paying $300-400 for a Race keyboard from Worst Buy. They sell a $5 USB or HDMI cable for $50 and then complain when no one buys them.
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Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."
A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)
Here's a dictionary definition of excotic:
of foreign origin or character; not native; introduced from abroad, but not fully naturalized or acclimatized
of a uniquely new or experimental nature
The bottom line is you should stick to Filco or Ducky if quality or the ability to RMA comes first to you.
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Same thing happened to me with the paint, I don't have any issues with the keycaps but from day two i noticed paint off the chassis, i scratched it with my fingernail to see if if it was easily scratchable and right away paint came off, not a big issue for me but pretty disappointing to see this.
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@ broken keycap. That is a KBT Pro, a Zippy board.
Vortex shot themselves in the foot. Oni really is a nice board (IMO best board for the price). How many people refused to buy it due to past screw ups by Vortex? If they took care of many of the QC issues when they cropped up, I don't think anyone would have reservations in recommending Vortex boards. People buy Pure and Poker because there is no alternative. There are many things they need to fix if they want to be a serious contender.
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The saddest thing is, they still make awesome designs.
I drooled over their Aluminum Filco Case for months when they released pictures on their facebook.
Then Mechanicalkeyboards.com got a delivery of it, and loads of people jumped on it (there is a thread about it in this forum)
I was going to order one too, but given Vortex track record I hesitated. A couple days later they were out of stock, and first people were getting their cases.
Turned out they arrived not only without feet, but weird holes (damages) and didn't fit very well.
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Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."
A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)
Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.
Here's some shots (http://digi.tech.qq.com/a/20120826/000010.htm) and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK1008.html) and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/keycaps.html). Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducky-Zero-Series-DK2108-mechanical-keyboard-Cherry-MX-blue-key-switch-/261156473130?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cce23892a) as well. No, really (http://unboxing.cc/?action-viewnews-itemid-4918). (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?
And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.
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Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."
A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)
Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.
Here's some shots (http://digi.tech.qq.com/a/20120826/000010.htm) and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK1008.html) and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/keycaps.html). Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducky-Zero-Series-DK2108-mechanical-keyboard-Cherry-MX-blue-key-switch-/261156473130?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cce23892a) as well. No, really (http://unboxing.cc/?action-viewnews-itemid-4918). (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?
And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.
I'm a little bit ignorant on the subject, but I think the "exotic" reference is more for the compact keyboards like KBC Poker, KBT Pure and KBT Race. I'm not aware of any other manufacturer with the same layouts for those boards.
If I'm wrong, please tell me, because I would love to be able to source from someone other than Vortex. ;D
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Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."
A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)
Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.
Here's some shots (http://digi.tech.qq.com/a/20120826/000010.htm) and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK1008.html) and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/keycaps.html). Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducky-Zero-Series-DK2108-mechanical-keyboard-Cherry-MX-blue-key-switch-/261156473130?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cce23892a) as well. No, really (http://unboxing.cc/?action-viewnews-itemid-4918). (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?
And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.
I never claimed KBT One was an excotic board. I barely know anything about KBT One. I said "excotic manufacturer".
The topic isnt even about that board. I was talking in regards to KBT Race. Does it even matter how I personally classify keyboard manufacturers? lol :rolleyes:
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Leslieann -- did you ever get replacement key caps from Vortex?
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I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.
These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.
I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.
Keyboards in general is a very inexpensive hobby. Yelling you lungs out on a forum about a manufacturer won't solve the problems...
$50 will.
Letting everyone know, will help... us specially!
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Leslieann -- did you ever get replacement key caps from Vortex?
They just cleared customs today.
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Replacement caps arrived from Vortex today, my thanks to Vortex and Vortex-JC for the keycaps.
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Replacement caps arrived from Vortex today, my thanks to Vortex and Vortex-JC for the keycaps.
I can't wait to hear what you think of them. Oh, and I hope you take lots of photos too!