Author Topic: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.  (Read 33954 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:43:27 »
I bought the KBT/Vortex Race back in November and since it came from overseas, it took about 2 weeks, so early December is about when it arrived.

Two weeks after getting it, the case itself started showing serious signs of wear. The case is an off white plastic with eggshell white paint over it and the paint is VERY easy to scratch off, I let this slide because I always planned on an aluminum chassis. I also planned to replace all of the keys at some point. So why am I mad? Yesterday, I noticed that several keys are already signs of wearing through. 6 WEEKS!

Now, I realize that I use my computer A LOT, enough that I tend to a kill top of the line Logitech mouse about once every year to year and a half.  However, I have never worn through keys, in fact I have never even ever worn off the legends. I have had 2 Logitech Illuminated, and a Black Widow Ultimate, all of which went about a year without any sign of wear before being retired, and this has completely worn through in 6 lousy weeks. Unacceptable. I always knew these keys felt strange, but didn't know why, others have commented on it as well. I always attributed it to being the type of plastic used. Upon further inspection, I'm pretty sure that all they did was paint the keys. No clear coat, just white paint over the tops.

I still love the layout, I still think they have a nice circuit board, and a nice look, but I'm stunned. I can't understand why would you make a high end keyboard with painted, unprotected keys. I can't be the first to wear through them in a short time either.

Anyone know how to get in touch with the manufacturer?

Pics (ignore the dust specs and image quality).
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion


Offline Halverson

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6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:00:43 »
The style of caps just tend to wear from heavy use, don't think there is a lot you can do. Although, possibly the ducky led caps are of higher quality...

Offline mashby

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:10:20 »
So sorry to hear this Leslieann.  :-[

I switched from the Race S to the Pure and noticed a big difference in the key caps as well. Both sets are laser etched, but the ones on the Race S I don't think were sealed, or something to that affect.

Clearly I didn't use the keyboard as much as you have, but it totally sucks to see chipping, or wear THAT fast. I agree it's unacceptable.

With that white PCB and white LED, had I stuck with the Race, I would have replaced the caps with something solid and just let the LED illuminate around the keys. How important to you is it to have the illuminated keys, vs the reflective backlight?

Of course it's harder to replace all the keys on the Race given the layout. :(

Offline Leslieann

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:12:27 »
just get new key caps?

a whole set is $50...
$50, and how long will those last? I'm certainly not getting stock ones again.
Also being a compact keyboard, I can't just buy any old set of keycaps.



The style of caps just tend to wear from heavy use, don't think there is a lot you can do. Although, possibly the ducky led caps are of higher quality...

They do, and I expected it, but not after only 6 weeks. Like I said, the three other backlit boards lasted over a year under similar use without any signs of wear. These keys are just plain junk.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:23:57 »
I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.

These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.

I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:31:49 »
Agreed.  Typical Vortex.

Offline highspeed

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:55:37 »
looks cheap that paint :(

i got the regular race backlit..seems to be better..holding up just fine after several months..

whats the different anyway with the S model?

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:01:26 »
The S model is painted.  And maybe it came with special LED colors or something.  Also a different colored PCB I think.

Offline mashby

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:14:20 »
whats the different anyway with the S model?

- White PCB
- White LED
- "Special" White or Pink key caps

I posted a photo set of my pink one at this link.

Offline Binge

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:34:29 »
Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"

Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends.  There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys.  They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.

Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:39:52 »
Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"

Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends.  There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys.  They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.

Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw

Who said I was blaming Vortex exclusively? Thermaltake's just as bad, as is anyone else using the same junk ABS keycaps. The Meka G1 is a brilliant keyboard but I can't possibly recommend it because the keycaps are so low quality. $150 MSRP and the keycaps are worse quality than an old $20 rubber dome.

Though let's be honest - at least Thermaltake has a way to contact them for support. Vortex is the only 'high end' keyboard 'manufacturer' I've seen which seems to go to great lengths to ensure customers can never, ever reach them by any means ever.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:55:47 »
I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.

These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.

I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.

Keyboards in general is a very inexpensive hobby. Yelling you lungs out on a forum about a manufacturer won't solve the problems...

$50 will.

Offline rknize

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:58:26 »
I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps.  I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones.  The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish.  The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon.  I don't think they are coated.
Russ

Offline Binge

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 18:00:47 »
Heh I remember ranting about this with many printed legends and how the keycaps should be higher quality than the "norm"

Blaming vortex exclusively is like blaming costar for having pad-printed legends.  There is a reason for you to be upset which is not in question, but I HATE pad printed keys.  They get destroyed at various rates based on the technique/conditions of the warehouse/chemicals which come in contact with the paint.

Dye-sub, laser etched, or double shot ftw

Who said I was blaming Vortex exclusively? Thermaltake's just as bad, as is anyone else using the same junk ABS keycaps. The Meka G1 is a brilliant keyboard but I can't possibly recommend it because the keycaps are so low quality. $150 MSRP and the keycaps are worse quality than an old $20 rubber dome.

Though let's be honest - at least Thermaltake has a way to contact them for support. Vortex is the only 'high end' keyboard 'manufacturer' I've seen which seems to go to great lengths to ensure customers can never, ever reach them by any means ever.

Hey there, hi and hello~  can I make you some chamomile tea?  Didn't notice you.

I know I can reach Thermaltake as I review for them.  Vortex has never responded to myself or other members of RWLabs.  It seems like they make products for other companies to support, and to get recognized you need to be one of their vendors.

This isn't the first time you've run into that sort of stonewall?  I get it all the time from companies expressing my need to deal with the store at which the product was purchased.  Their operations just simply do not exist outside of the warehouse/factory.
60% keyboards, 100% of the time.

"What the hell Jimmy?!  It was ruined before you even put it up there with your decrepit fingers."

Offline Guillairmo

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 18:16:25 »
Shoulda bought a razer....... lol

Offline Joe6pack

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 18:57:27 »
I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.

These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.

I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.

Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps.   There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago.  It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps.   If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price.   They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.   


Offline Leslieann

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 19:23:41 »
You're probably out of luck.  iMav ran a few group buys of several thousand dollars worth of boards and it seemed like a struggle for him to get Vortex to give him the time of day.
Considering what I went through to get this keyboard, I have zero expectations, but sending them a nasty email would sure make me feel better.


I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps.  I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones.  The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish.  The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon.  I don't think they are coated.
Exactly!
The texture is odd, but I honestly didn't expect painted key caps when I bought this.

Shoulda bought a razer....... lol
I have one, and after almost a  year of use, it looks like new. Same goes for my Das, and my Logitech Illuminated. I have never seen a keyboard have issues so fast.

Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps.   There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago.  It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps.   If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price.   They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.
I completely agree.
At one point I actually considered buying a Rosewill as it's a cheap way to get a set of keycaps.
There is no reason that caps cost more than the switches, which can cost as much as the keyboard on their own.

keycaps $100
Switches $100
Complete keyboard with switches, keycaps, key puller, detachable cable, spare keycaps $100
????


This is why WASD rocks: Don't like the keycaps?  No problem - you can buy a board without them.
I just ordered a set from them as it's the cheapest, fastest way to get a set that will work for the Race. The top row may be a tad short, but otherwise it will work fine with some creative editing to the legends. I ordered a full set and tweaked it.

Thing is, I shouldn't have had to, especially at only 6 weeks old.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 20:19:14 »
You're probably out of luck.  iMav ran a few group buys of several thousand dollars worth of boards and it seemed like a struggle for him to get Vortex to give him the time of day.
Considering what I went through to get this keyboard, I have zero expectations, but sending them a nasty email would sure make me feel better.


I have 2 Races from iMav's GB and a set of white caps.  I have to agree that there is something not quite right with the white ones.  The black caps have a nice satin clearcoat finish.  The white caps feel like they were shot with some flat white Krylon.  I don't think they are coated.
Exactly!
The texture is odd, but I honestly didn't expect painted key caps when I bought this.

Shoulda bought a razer....... lol
I have one, and after almost a  year of use, it looks like new. Same goes for my Das, and my Logitech Illuminated. I have never seen a keyboard have issues so fast.

Sometimes I wonder about the price for keycaps.   There are more mechanical keyboards sold and used now than years ago.  It is a matter of sooner or later people are going to replace keycaps.   If Coolermaster can sell the quickfire for $60 retail, it can sell a new set of keycaps for much less than the going price.   They can make as much money as keyboard itself, the same way toner products for printers.
I completely agree.
At one point I actually considered buying a Rosewill as it's a cheap way to get a set of keycaps.
There is no reason that caps cost more than the switches, which can cost as much as the keyboard on their own.

keycaps $100
Switches $100
Complete keyboard with switches, keycaps, key puller, detachable cable, spare keycaps $100
????


This is why WASD rocks: Don't like the keycaps?  No problem - you can buy a board without them.
I just ordered a set from them as it's the cheapest, fastest way to get a set that will work for the Race. The top row may be a tad short, but otherwise it will work fine with some creative editing to the legends. I ordered a full set and tweaked it.

Thing is, I shouldn't have had to, especially at only 6 weeks old.

You should get
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37225.0 For your main keys and
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38563.0 for the Race weird size keys.

Not to say that you have to buy new caps and shut up as it seems our resident trollbrain wants to suggest, but because those are cool caps that match and would fit your race perfect.

Offline bardomudo

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 21:44:52 »
I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.

I've had my KBT Oni for about 2 months now and I'm still amazed by it's overall quality, including the keycaps. The lasered PBT keycaps are the best I've seen in a stock keybord (perhaps just not better than the PBT Leopold, Ducky and the Topre boards) and its build quality is as good as my Filco.

If the Race has a problem, that's bad and they should be accountable. But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.

Offline jabar

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 23:04:49 »
I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
...
But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.
It doesn't matter if a company makes the best product ever if their customer support is nil when a lemon is inevitably shipped.
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Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 23:19:14 »
Sadly the paint coming off is a common issue and has a few threads on here mentioning it, I believe.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline Preach

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 23:46:18 »
Hopefully this doesn't happen to me as i was looking into getting a race next
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Offline MissMurd3r84

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KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline KangarooZombies

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 00:02:25 »
The race looks AMAZING in pictures imo, but isn't one of their most solidly constructed boards. I still want one though. :3
Having a bad day?
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Offline rknize

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 00:13:51 »
I am making it a point in the future not to give Vortex any more of my money.  Both the Race and DIY Poker GBs were delayed for many months without word and ended up being all screwed up.  While their products are interesting and cool, their quality, consistency, and customer service vary from questionable to horrible.
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Offline laffindude

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 01:29:51 »
I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.

I've had my KBT Oni for about 2 months now and I'm still amazed by it's overall quality, including the keycaps. The lasered PBT keycaps are the best I've seen in a stock keybord (perhaps just not better than the PBT Leopold, Ducky and the Topre boards) and its build quality is as good as my Filco.

If the Race has a problem, that's bad and they should be accountable. But don't trash the whole company and all its products, specially since they make some other good stuff.
I heard Oni/One is built in the same factory as Filcos. Which is more than you can say than most board touted as Costar.

There are some that bashes Vortex like a broken record, but they deserve every bit of scorn thrown their way. We're not bashing Vortex because they have some duds. We're bashing Vortex because of their continual bad business decisions. You'll be in the same boat if they hold your money on hostage for over a year on pre-orders, then completely unresponsive when probed about it. There are tons of internal issues they need to fix if they want to be a real company.

Offline pitashen

  • Posts: 1200
Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 02:37:54 »
Where Vortex is from? Mainland China?
\\\\ DSI Mac Modular Keyboard (Brown) w/ Leo  Blank Keycaps //
\\\\ Leopold 87keys Keyboard (Brown) w/ Black CherryCorp + SP DoubleShots //
\\\\ Filco Majestouch 2 NINJA (Black) w/ White CherryCorp + SP DoublsShots //

Offline Sai

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 02:39:24 »
Where Vortex is from? Mainland China?
Taiwan
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 02:49:15 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 04:11:31 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 04:18:29 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline laffindude

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 04:49:43 »
And Filco switched to laser awhile ago.

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 05:05:16 »
Hey there, hi and hello~  can I make you some chamomile tea?  Didn't notice you.

Mmmm, tea, yes please. And scones. *monocle*

Quote
I know I can reach Thermaltake as I review for them.  Vortex has never responded to myself or other members of RWLabs.  It seems like they make products for other companies to support, and to get recognized you need to be one of their vendors.

Same here, well, at least could - don't know who's running things post-Weller. (Talk about one of those emails that makes you sadface.) I've completely given up on reaching Vortex for any sort of review sample, forget presales. Yes, presales. And KBTalking's proven equally worthless - supposedly they make it yet they know nothing about it? Uh. Yeah. Something ain't right there.

Quote
This isn't the first time you've run into that sort of stonewall?  I get it all the time from companies expressing my need to deal with the store at which the product was purchased.  Their operations just simply do not exist outside of the warehouse/factory.

No stonewalling; I've had VERY long delays with Thermaltake going through retail though. Never had an actual stonewall though. SteelSeries, even through retail, has always taken care of me. (I pretty much insist on not abusing back channels for support except during reviews. Just ask engineering.)
Reason I brought up Thermaltake is because they do have a support organization that doesn't exist purely to go "blah blah return to point of sale." But a lot of these supposed "high end" manufacturers? Don't. They have zero support. And they expect me to pay a super-premium price, for a sub-par product, with a ridiculous amount of markup, and they won't even stand behind it.

And I'm beyond tired of the claims of keycaps costing $X. Again, Unicomp sells a complete set of high quality dye-sublimation PBT keycaps for $25. That is the economies of scale. Do you know what the junk ABS keycaps Ducky switched to cost them? Probably less than $10 for the set. Quality keycaps do not cost manufacturers $60, period. If they did, keyboards would cost far, far more. Small order quantities like group buys cost more, because they aren't making thousands and thousands of them and there is no steady stream of future orders for the parts. (More group buys != future orders.)
So when a manufacturer like Filco cranks out say, 50,000 keyboards all using the same keycap set, it does not bloody well cost them $60 for those keycaps. It costs them $10. For the SET. Colors? Do not cost $5 a keycap. They want to sell you the cheapest crap they can source at the super-premium price, then you say 'oh well it was me' and instead of recognizing a low quality product, go spend money you shouldn't have to for one of mediocre quality.
It is the penultimate example of throwing good money after bad hardware. You buy a junk keyboard at a showoff price - let's say a Filco at $150 with ABS keys. You show it off for two weeks and then it looks like ass because ABS pad printed junk. So you 'fix' that by spending $65 for keycaps which are not total failure. Only to find out that THEY fail in 6 months. So you buy another $75 set of keycaps promising they'll be better. And they're not.
So you're now out $290 + $50 S&H = $340 for a $150 keyboard. That still doesn't look or work as advertised. You bought a keyboard so bad that you had to buy a second keyboard to replace it.
This is not 'modding' this is not 'the keyboard way' this is not 'zen.' This is unrestrained stupidity. And instead of fighting manufacturers cranking out this swill, you make excuses, say how it could be worse, and insult posters for making the reasonable statement that a super-premium mechanical keyboad hewn by the hands of god should not have such glaring and repeated and well known defects, and a record of refusing to acknowledge them or blame them on others.
Razer Syndrome.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 06:30:52 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow!  When did the price go down?  Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00.  And they were not on Amazon iirc.

Thanx for the infos!
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline akuJIWA

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 07:05:40 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow!  When did the price go down?  Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00.  And they were not on Amazon iirc.

Thanx for the infos!

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_1421

Australia!
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quit

Offline Leslieann

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 08:30:50 »
You should get
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37225.0 For your main keys and
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38563.0 for the Race weird size keys.

Not to say that you have to buy new caps and shut up as it seems our resident trollbrain wants to suggest, but because those are cool caps that match and would fit your race perfect.
I have been watching and considering it for a while (it's my favorite set of caps), however the specials will not match the rest as well as I would like (I'm a bit OCD). If they were all from the same manufacturer, I would have been on the list a while back. I went to WASD and got everything in one go. It's not red on white, but it will be consistent, look good and stay that way. I plan to keep watching group buys as well though.


I don't get people trashing Vortex as a whole.
I have been a supporter of this board since I got it, and I still like it.  The PCB sizing looks and layout are great which is really all I bought it for, however the keys and chassis being painted (badly) is not right.

As I said, I fully planned on replacing both at some point, but do you honestly think it's okay to have to replace both after only 6 weeks and after spending over $150 on it? Luckily, I can afford it, but imagine the 14 year old who saved for the last year for a keyboard only to have this happen to them.
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rknize

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 09:16:43 »
Aside from special cases like Deck, any backlit board is going to end up this way.  Obviously they should last longer than that.  If you love the layout and want quality caps, the Noppo is probably more what you want.
Russ

Offline laffindude

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 11:07:22 »
@rootwyrm: KBTalKingUSA is setup by Zippy to import KBT Pro only. If you asked them for Vortex board, duh. They don't have anything to do with Vortex.

I blame the price on the channel. If Unicomp sold to distributors, and distributors sells them to retailers, you'd see highly inflated price too.

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 11:30:44 »
@rootwyrm: KBTalKingUSA is setup by Zippy to import KBT Pro only. If you asked them for Vortex board, duh. They don't have anything to do with Vortex.

Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.

I'd poke my contacts at the Zippy/Emacs mothership PSU department to put me in touch with the keyboard folks, but honestly? I'm not going to drop $125 on what may or may not be a quality keyboard when I know full well Vortex won't stand behind it either way.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 12:15:39 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow!  When did the price go down?  Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00.  And they were not on Amazon iirc.

Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline laffindude

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 14:05:43 »
Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.

There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.

Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.

Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.

KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 January 2013, 14:34:31 by laffindude »

Offline IPT

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 15:32:13 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow!  When did the price go down?  Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00.  And they were not on Amazon iirc.

Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
well 1 year+ ago the Limited Edition Linear R Filco MX red was around those prices new.
but that was b4 they released the MJ2 in red switches.

Offline mashby

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 16:11:17 »
Yes, which is why one would presume they would know something about the KBTalKing One. Since allegedly they manufacture it. Since it does bear their branding. Since Vortex is just slapping their name and horrible reputation in front of it.

There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.

Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.

Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.

KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com

You are a fountain of information. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

As a newb to all this, I found it extremely frustrating trying to figure out who all these entities were and why I couldn't just go to a simple web site and order it. MechanicalKeyboards.com was very helpful, but even still, your level of insight is impressive.

Again, thank you.

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 18:28:58 »
The legend on E and left shift on my first Filco weathered after 2 weeks... just saying. Second one was a ninja for a reason.
Filcos use Pad Printing.  That is why I refused to buy a Filco.  Its just not right to pay $300.00 for a pad printed keyboard.
Anyone buying a Filco for $300 would be stupid.. why pay that much when they are only really $150ish?
Wow!  When did the price go down?  Back when I was shopping I looked at Filco keyboards over and over again and I never saw any for $150.00.  And they were not on Amazon iirc.

Thanx for the infos!
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they were up to $300, TBH. Not sure the normal US price for them, but I really doubt the majority paid anywhere near that.
well 1 year+ ago the Limited Edition Linear R Filco MX red was around those prices new.
but that was b4 they released the MJ2 in red switches.
Recently there was a period of some months where Filcos were not available in the USA directly so one had to get them from TheKeyboardCo in UK for approximately $200.00

Anywayz, all that matters is that Filcos with cherry mx Red switches and front printed keys are $160.00 on Amazon today.   Will they be there when my 2nd Rosewill breaks and I am ready to buy?  Who knows...
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 18:44:14 »
There is a great chasm forming between KBT and Vortex it seems.

Then there is some e-tailer that insist on using the KBT name in their store name. KBT name has been dragged through the mud through their association with Vortex. Vortex likes to play the mysterious card. I know people that deal with them, and boy they still haven't figure out how Vortex is ran.

Edit again: I think you're very confused on KBT's relationship with Zippy and Vortex.
Vortex is a design house KBT used to design those Vortex boards mentioned before. Zippy has nothing to do with them. Contacting Zippy keyboard people won't get you one.
KBT contacted Zippy to customize a Zippy board to make the KBT Pro.

KBT is just a forum: kbtalking.cool3c.com

Sigh. Methinks you do not comprehend the workings of ODM/OEM/CDM relationships in the detail you think you do.

Really - an all new design shop that can bend manufacturers to their whim but can also somehow offer small run keyboards at competitive prices when compared to CM Storm, Ducky, etcetera despite having no verifiable presence anywhere and no significant in-house manufacturing capabilities? Come on. It's already failing the smell test right there. Don't believe me? Look up prices on the "Vortex KBT ONE" - $122 for 109 keys with PBT keycaps. You either have to be moving some serious quantity to get prices competitive, or relying on an existing design with a limited change set. (Which by the way, doesn't rule out chassis changes - but usually rules out wholesale electronics changes.)
Case in point would be the KBT Pro / Zippy BW7050 - $170 direct. And yes, it is without any question a Zippy BW-7050. What, you didn't think everyone used the CST-104 purely because it's a solid design, did you? Do you really think everybody goes through the very expensive process of doing a whole new design from scratch, then making all new tooling just so they can sell maybe one or two thousand keyboards essentially at a loss? Hell, the Das Ultimate (mk2) is CST-104 electronics and PCBs.

Might not be a Zippy/EMACS design (hint: they do not list all their ODM models publicly. Nobody does.) But come on - somehow Vortex can make a profit while doing all their own design and manufacturing while selling maybe a few hundred of any given model? And offer them at prices lower than Ducky and Filco despite having significantly less units to make up design and manufacturing costs?
Common sense says it's just not possible. Not unless, as I said, they're badge-engineering. I might buy the Race being a jobbed board, but really, Vortex just fails every single sniff test.

EDIT: Can't believe I missed it before. KBT ONE == Ducky 1008L! The added 4 above the numpad give it away.
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 January 2013, 01:38:35 by rootwyrm »
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline Glod

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 18:51:40 »
i will say that i'm not exactly happy with the quality of the Race myself, it was really a spontaneous buy lol

i bought the mx white / pbt key Race from qtan back in mid september (this one http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=210)

when i first got it i was kind of annoyed at the flexing of the pcb and noise coming from behind in, so i put foam underneath the pcb.

Using it 1 month the printing on the keys started fading bad, it got some decent use since i was traveling with it in October but really i don't use it lately; it doesn't even have any switches or key caps on it right now for me to show you guys the fading lol.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 21:27:57 »
Even though I bought keys from WASD last night, I'm really a bit annoyed about the whole thing.
I went looking at Noppoos and Keycool, frankly I find them ugly. The looks were one of the major attractions to the Race.

At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
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| Das Pro
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| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rknize

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 22:06:53 »
At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.

Already in the works:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38847.0
Russ

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: 6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 11 January 2013, 22:11:33 »
Even though I bought keys from WASD last night, I'm really a bit annoyed about the whole thing.
I went looking at Noppoos and Keycool, frankly I find them ugly. The looks were one of the major attractions to the Race.

At this point I am giving serious thought to getting a few people together and build a mini style Phantom (I'm not rich, just really annoyed over all of this). Then I would get the keyboard exactly how I want once and for all. Though it's probably cheaper to just buy a KMAC and be done with it.

it's not a perfect solution, but look at the mxmini, too