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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CommunistWitchDr on Tue, 16 April 2013, 15:40:34

Title: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Tue, 16 April 2013, 15:40:34
The ErgoDox is totally programmable. Meaning you can make any layout you like with a tool like this-
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/

Show off yours here.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Jagriff on Tue, 16 April 2013, 17:32:53
I'm in the second group buy so it will be a while before I even get to try this layout, but here's what I have:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=EUVE48&hash=91a5705199b9f194576f46d38ee9f6e7

The Y, O, and U on the left hand is just for when I am using a mouse with my right and I want to do shorcuts.

Layer 1 has easy access to ALT+F4, number pad, and navigational keys.

I'm still not sure about some parts of the thumb clusters and the bottom row.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Glod on Tue, 16 April 2013, 17:47:19
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42231.0

Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: SubGothius on Sun, 09 June 2013, 18:02:31
Here's my adapted QWERTY layout with a proper inverted-T arrow cluster and some cleverness in the numpad layer:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=2528b12087164c68adf36668b408d1f8
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 09 June 2013, 18:55:38
Here's my adapted QWERTY layout with a proper inverted-T arrow cluster and some cleverness in the numpad layer:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=2528b12087164c68adf36668b408d1f8

what does the null set key do.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Jagriff on Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:41:24
Here's my adapted QWERTY layout with a proper inverted-T arrow cluster and some cleverness in the numpad layer:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=2528b12087164c68adf36668b408d1f8

what does the null set key do.
The empty set symbol denotes transparent keys. From the massdrop website:

"Transparent Keys
When pressed, these keys will move down the stack looking for a non-transparent key to send, hence the name. They cannot be assigned to Layer 0."
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 10 June 2013, 18:59:51
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Jagriff on Mon, 10 June 2013, 19:26:48
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.
Do you actually use both spaces?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 10 June 2013, 21:22:37
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.
Do you actually use both spaces?

I've been thinking about having a second space, because sometimes, you need to correct something, and then use the mouse right away, having a second space on the left really helps with that.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 11 June 2013, 05:45:12
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.
Do you actually use both spaces?

No, at the moment, I just use the right space.  I probably I should do something more useful with that left thumb key, but haven't decided what to do with it yet. 
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 11 June 2013, 17:46:03
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.

There have been some changes to my layout in case anybody is interested.  I know you are all holding your breath.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=662e24cfbfd4f74c9178bd919ab3351a

Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 11 June 2013, 17:51:44
Here is mine.  I tried the mock the layout on my Maltron.
Layer 0 is standard QWERTY.   
Layer 1 has media keys and Num pad. 
Layer 2 has the Maltron layout, which, I plan to learn now that I have an Ergodox and Maltron.  Should be interesting. 

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=2143d3250d84e49d6f6d4b260788d33d

I might change things around slightly.  Perhaps swap the Shift and Control.  Other ideas include placing the Shift next to the Spacebars.  And then moving the Tab and Enter to bottom middle.

There have been some changes to my layout in case anybody is interested.  I know you are all holding your breath.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=662e24cfbfd4f74c9178bd919ab3351a



my media keys don't work.. waaaaaaaaaa :'( :'(

you're all using macos yea?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Glod on Tue, 11 June 2013, 20:11:21
yeah media keys didn't work for me either, are they just for macs or is there a driver to install or something?

once liked having my volume control and pause play on my keyboard and gave it up for good keyboards.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 11 June 2013, 20:40:02
hi glod, thx for the standoffs mod btw.. it really helps.. tenting ftw
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Glod on Tue, 11 June 2013, 21:02:14
dat wasnt me :O i suggested using the kenesis V3 kit for tenting.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 11 June 2013, 21:07:39
dat wasnt me :O i suggested using the kenesis V3 kit for tenting.

oh, whoever did it, thanx, :D..

SubGothius thank

I checked out the v3 kit, it doesn't give me enough tenting. and it doesn't seem to allow for multi axis tenting. For example, I feel like the ergodox should also be tented from the back/ io side toward the user, a little ontop of center tenting.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: pprjr on Wed, 12 June 2013, 23:01:09
I am interested in a ergodox, but I do not want to assemble one, someone would be willing to sell a assembled to me or tell me where I can find to buy?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Glod on Fri, 14 June 2013, 13:59:42
Wanted to throw up my most recent layout, not very creative but i like it.

(http://almightyglod.com/public_stack/ErgoDox_Layout/1/Glod_ErgoDox_Layout_June_2013.png)

http://almightyglod.com/public_stack/ErgoDox_Layout/1/

I am interested in a ergodox, but I do not want to assemble one, someone would be willing to sell a assembled to me or tell me where I can find to buy?

Welcome to geekhack. Round 3 is up on massdrop.com, the first step would be to acquire a non-assembled one and then finding someone here to build it. It's harder to acquire a fully built one. once you have 60 posts here you can start asking in the classifieds.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 14:27:51
I finally got the rest of my stabs from wasd web..  ergo dox is so much better with stabs... it's extremely grindy with ergoclear without the stabs.

all my 2x keys now lubed and stabbed..  much more consistent travel.. and the side to side torque is gone. :D
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Jagriff on Fri, 14 June 2013, 14:48:18
Here's my updated layout:
More
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/jagriff333/ErgoDoxLayout_zpsd6664c22.jpg)

The -_ is positioned so that I can hit it with the same motion as hitting space, which-is-very-appropriate.
I have easy access to ALT+F4 (on ~L1) and ALT+TAB isn't too unnatural.
HJKL (editing purposes) and WASD (screen hotkey purposes, such as WIN+Shift+Left) are arrow keys on the function layer.
Everything else is pretty self-explanatory.
The F1-F8 keys on layer 0 are there just because I cannot think of a better use for those keys.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 16:03:31
Here's my updated layout:
More
Show Image
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/jagriff333/ErgoDoxLayout_zpsd6664c22.jpg)

The -_ is positioned so that I can hit it with the same motion as hitting space, which-is-very-appropriate.
I have easy access to ALT+F4 (on ~L1) and ALT+TAB isn't too unnatural.
HJKL (editing purposes) and WASD (screen hotkey purposes, such as WIN+Shift+Left) are arrow keys on the function layer.
Everything else is pretty self-explanatory.
The F1-F8 keys on layer 0 are there just because I cannot think of a better use for those keys.

I put most of my nav keys on the left side because that way i can one hand them while still holding the mouse.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Jagriff on Fri, 14 June 2013, 19:12:31
I put most of my nav keys on the left side because that way i can one hand them while still holding the mouse.
Like what exactly? It seems like navigating with the mouse would be best if it is in your hand.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: ksm123 on Wed, 19 June 2013, 03:24:56
Here (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=987LAZ&hash=2c8f8a861395594182675cfcecde6579) is my layout.

Rationale:

My main editor is Emacs with "ErgoEmacs" mode on, therefore there is no inverted T arrow cluster (ErgoEmacs provides arrow keys near right homerow with Meta (Left Alt) pressed.
Left Alt is prominently displayed in left thumb cluster.
Right Alt is tucked away from right thumb cluster, but still is easily available with just a thumb curl.
I'm used to operate space with my left thumb.

Layer zero is pretty much standard Qwerty.
Layer one is function keys and numpad, I'm used to grouping function keys into fours, therefore all function keys are under my left hand.
Layer two is the Colemak layout done in firmware, it allows me to use Colemak during boot process.
Layer three provides access to Teensy boot loader and switching between Qwerty and Colemak.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: daerid on Wed, 19 June 2013, 10:45:05
A little out of the ordinary, but I let my fingers tell me where the keys need to go.

Although I'm pretty sure I need to fix up L1, as I can't do an Alt+Up to go up a folder in the File Open dialog boxes in Windows (which I use a lot).

(http://i.imgur.com/5vBBZLT.png)

Title: Workman Layout for ErgoDox
Post by: Calyx on Fri, 21 June 2013, 20:14:17
Here's my simple Workman layout.
It allows me to shift to qwerty for the sake of others who might want to try it (as well as for passwords).

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=CTL63V&hash=a7039025f34045d7ecd49b9be60c4deb
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Glod on Sat, 22 June 2013, 02:50:29
wow, that is interesting, ive never seen something like that before!

that reminds me that i meant to add dvorak and colemak to my ergodox, there is like 10 layers in the configuration tool; it wouldn't be hard for me to add in some interesting layers. Ive never tried typing with colemak before
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: linuxjosh on Wed, 28 August 2013, 20:05:03
Just got my Ergo all built and keycaped. Here is my layout:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=H46TJU&hash=931829c5947ea54ef34503f20c9bf2f3
Title: Latin (International) ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Sun, 08 September 2013, 23:48:58
Hey everyone,

This is a partical repost on the Swedish/Finnish (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47576.0) post but I think it's relevant.

I ordered my Ergodox in the last Massdrop buy, while waiting  I've been playing with layouts and figuring out how to map an Icelandic keyboard.

I work as a hybrid developer/sysadmin so I expect I'll continue to use regular QWERTY keyboards quite frequently, mostly English/ANSI but also Icelandic/ISO.

My initial reaction was to start with QWERTY but then I stopped and thought, well if I'm retraining myself and I don't want to screw up my current typing skills perhaps going with something even more different isn't a bad idea and since bigger the difference the less chance of confusion and QWERTY is suboptimal for typing comfort, speed and accuracy.

I figured this might be a good time to switch to Dvorak, well I looked at Dvorak and making an Icelandic layout for it, also looked at how programming would be with a Dvorak and, ahh well not so great.

After doing a lot of experiments using Patrick Gillespie's Keyboard Layout Analyzer (http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main) I finally settled on a slightly modified Colemak layout, the only real difference was to swap the A and the N so that all the vowels would be on the right side, this way I can add the popular  Diacritic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacritic) on the left hand to type things like áúíýóé ö easily.

My Current Massdrop Ergodox layout (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=APSTPX&hash=0ce4083e25dd06c0f0841e2a4b5badc4)

But ideally I would like to make something that's not only usable for most or all Latin based languages but pretty fast for all of them. The Colemak (http://colemak.com) layout can already handle almost all the characters required but they involve some pretty awkward key combinations (http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=Multilingual) like Altgr + t + y to get ý.

Right now I'm thinking if it's possible to reprogram the CTRL, SHIFT and ALT and Layer keys so that in addition to being regular control keys they also become dead keys when pressed and released without any other key being pressed, this way I could add support for ° ´ ` ~ ˆ , pressing any one of them twice would result in the double diacritic or reversing the direction ˆ becomes ˇ and ° becomes ¨.

This leaves one deadkey that I think can be used for ß Æ Þ Ð Ø and ¿

¿ is a deadkey followed by ?
Ø is a deadkey followed by O
ß is a deadkey followed by S
Æ is a deadkey followed by A
Þ is deadkey followed by T
Р is deadkey followed by D.

This could also be used for other secondary double mappings not involving the already used A and O.

I'd love to get some feedback, thoughts from other people using Latin based keyboards, If we can come up with an efficient design for an standard Latin based Colemak I think we might achieve something pretty special.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Sun, 15 September 2013, 21:37:59
Just thought I would let you know that the Ergodox keyboard layout is now available as an option in

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer, it's a tool to optimize keyboard layouts and is really cool, I highly recommend you try it out if you are building your own layout or to compare existing layouts.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 15 September 2013, 21:57:47
wow, that's excellent news!

One of the "issues" I've seen with layout analyzers is that they lack support for any of the "cool" projects. Also, many don't' include the impact of punctuation and special characters. In some OS's, I'd rather have the / closer to hand than the QWERTY positioning.

Having the ergodox as an option is excellent. Now let's get crunching! I suspect the most useful use of this tool is to determine a good location for what to do with the thumb keys and punctuation.
---
Edit: I'm not seeing the ergodox anywhere on his pages!
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Sun, 15 September 2013, 22:04:36
Go to: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/config

In the preset menu, scroll to the bottom, select Ergodox QUERTY and hit Load.

R.

Jarl


wow, that's excellent news!

One of the "issues" I've seen with layout analyzers is that they lack support for any of the "cool" projects. Also, many don't' include the impact of punctuation and special characters. In some OS's, I'd rather have the / closer to hand than the QWERTY positioning.

Having the ergodox as an option is excellent. Now let's get crunching! I suspect the most useful use of this tool is to determine a good location for what to do with the thumb keys and punctuation.
---
Edit: I'm not seeing the ergodox anywhere on his pages!
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: xmagusx on Sat, 21 September 2013, 20:16:19
There have been some changes to my layout in case anybody is interested.  I know you are all holding your breath.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=UFLHZS&hash=662e24cfbfd4f74c9178bd919ab3351a
I'm guessing that you've not used the Maltron layer that much yet, because as it is, it lacks an "E" key (usually on the left thumb). ;)
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: AKmalamute on Sun, 22 September 2013, 00:31:19
Had to let this last GB go by, but I hope to have an ergodox soon. In anticipation of that, and since my fingers pretty much expect dvorak, I made a dvorak layout (which I saw someone ask about but haven't seen in this thread)
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=A3SE32&hash=2512388404ca53c0a62c846962b81146

Although I expect I'll have to fiddle more than a bit with the thumb, and extra bottom row buttons to find the best use for them. You may notice I moved the dash to the left hand ... that's because one of the very, very few complaints I have about dvorak, is getting a long listing of a directory in linux. ls -l ... it's all the pinky. At least it's the right pinky but on this layout it won't be.

 That's all I got. Have fun.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: davkol on Thu, 14 November 2013, 16:34:31
Here is the zeroth revision of my symmetrical layout inspired by TypeMatrix to some extent.

L1 and thumb clusters are temporary and I'll add Colemak and mirrored layers for one-handed typing later.

I started with slightly modified default QWERTY, I moved AltGr right next to the thumb cluster in particular. Then I made this. Control keys are placed like that because I want to press them with my palms.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: plainbriny on Thu, 05 December 2013, 23:54:27
Here is my layout, which is intendeds to leverage the loading of my right hand to the left, and adapted to word frequency of Chinese characters from pinyin input method. It is still evolving and changes everyday...
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: steve.v on Wed, 02 April 2014, 23:52:50
Need some help regarding layouts. After loading the hex file, many keys are not in their correct positions. Reloading the original qwerty file works, but it's not taking my new layout. Any suggestions?

***Update***

Nevermind I fixed it, there was a bug.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: tricheboars on Thu, 10 April 2014, 10:13:16
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=832ELU&hash=1d8b323b7bdc779a5261002f487436d0 (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=832ELU&hash=1d8b323b7bdc779a5261002f487436d0)

pretty basic nothing too fancy.  i did find myself accidentally hitting the inside vertical 1.5u on each hand which control my layers so i put 1u keys there instead.  much better.

i have been using the dox at work for the last week and this is the 4 revision to my layout.  pretty straight forward qwerty.  i used what pulse for 3 months before constructing the ergodox so i could figure out what keys i use the most and need on my upper most layer.  that was a good idea.
 
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Mon, 08 December 2014, 06:14:25
What do you guys think of my Bu-Teck layout?

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=W4BX9C&hash=8fabfda730503881864abe9fdadc0857

[attach=1]
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Mon, 08 December 2014, 10:16:24
I think the layout would work fine in windows but OSX and Linux users would have some issues, especially when it comes to using vim and shortcuts, the windows ctrl-c ctrl-z ctrl-v might also be a bit problematic since you would have to move your right hand off the mouse :)

What do you guys think of my Bu-Teck layout?

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=W4BX9C&hash=8fabfda730503881864abe9fdadc0857

(Attachment Link)
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Mon, 08 December 2014, 10:30:53
I think the layout would work fine in windows but OSX and Linux users would have some issues, especially when it comes to using vim and shortcuts, the windows ctrl-c ctrl-z ctrl-v might also be a bit problematic since you would have to move your right hand off the mouse :)

[attach=1]

Fixed the Copy, Paste, Cut and Undo.
I use vim and emacs extensively but I have reconfigured the shortcuts. In vim the only ones impacted would the navigation keys, which in this layout you could use the arrows in Layer 1 as easily and close to home.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Data on Mon, 08 December 2014, 10:38:10
What's the "Menu" key (Windows context menu) in this editor?  Is it RGui?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Mon, 08 December 2014, 10:41:38
What's the "Menu" key (Windows context menu) in this editor?  Is it RGui?

Yes, it is RGui.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Data on Mon, 08 December 2014, 11:11:22
What's the "Menu" key (Windows context menu) in this editor?  Is it RGui?

Yes, it is RGui.

Thank you, kind sir.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Mon, 08 December 2014, 11:14:52
Thank you, kind sir.

No problem. I am creating a .hex file with tmk_keyboard with this layout. If anybody is interested.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Mon, 08 December 2014, 11:18:29
Personally I prefer to have the arrow keys along with home/end pgup/pgdown mapped on layer 1 so that I press one toggle key that turns the buttons that normally are sdf (left down right) and e to up.

Code: [Select]
     * ,--------------------------------------------------.           ,--------------------------------------------------.
     * |  +L1   | 1 !¡ |  2 @ | 3 #  | 4 $ §| 5 % ˝|˘ ̑ ˚  |           |˘ ̑ · | 6 ^ ̏| 7 &  | 8 *  | 9 +  | 0 =  |   L0   |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+-------------|           |------+------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * |  Tab   |   Q  |   W  |   F  |   P  |   G  | ˆ ˇ  |           | | ?  |   J  |   L  |   U  | Y ¥  |' " ´ |  Esc   |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+------|  *   |           | ¿ ¦  |------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * | ´` ¨   |   N  |  R ® | S ẞ  |  T Þ | D Р |------|           |------|   H  |  A Æ | E €  |I ı İ |  O Œ | - _ ~  |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+------| RAlt |           | RAlt |------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * | LShift |   Z  |   X  |C © ¢ |   V  |   B  |      |           |      |   K  |  M ™ |  ,;¸ |  .:˛ | / \ /| RShift |
     * `--------+------+------+------+------+-------------'           `-------------+------+------+------+------+--------'
     *   | LCtrl| LGui | LAlt |  <(  |  {[  |                                       |  ]}  |  )>  | LAlt | RGui | RCtrl|
     *   `----------------------------------'                                       `----------------------------------'
     *                                        ,-------------.       ,-------------.
     *                                        | ~L1  | ~L2  |       | ~L2  | ~L1  |
     *                                 ,------|------|------|       |------+------+------.
     *                                 |      |      | PgUp |       | Home |      |      |
     *                                 | BkSp | Del  |------|       |------| Enter| Space|
     *                                 |      |      | PgDn |       | End  |      |      |
     *                                 `--------------------'       `--------------------'


* Keymap: Layer 1
     *
     * ,--------------------------------------------------.           ,--------------------------------------------------.
     * |  +L2   |  F1  |  F2  |  F3  |  F4  |  F5  |˘ ̑ ˚  |           |˘ ̑ · | PrtSc| NumLk|   /  |   *  |   -  |   L0   |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+-------------|           |------+------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * |  Tab   |      | PgUp |  Up  | Vol+ |      | ˆ ˇ  |           | | ?  | ScrLk|   7  |   8  |   9  |  +   |        |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+------|  *   |           | ¿ ¦  |------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * | ´` ¨   | Home | Left | Down |Right | End  |------|           |------| Pause|   4  |   5  |   6  |  =   |        |
     * |--------+------+------+------+------+------| RAlt |           | RAlt |------+------+------+------+------+--------|
     * | CapsLk |      | PgDn | Mute | Vol- |      |      |           |      |      |   1  |   2  |   3  | Enter| CapsLk |
     * `--------+------+------+------+------+-------------'           `-------------+------+------+------+------+--------'
     *   | LCtrl| LGui | LAlt |  <(  |  {[  |                                       |   0  |  Del |  Crl |CjrEnt|      |
     *   `----------------------------------'                                       `----------------------------------'
     *                                        ,-------------.       ,-------------.
     *                                        | ~L1  | ~L2  |       | ~L2  | ~L1  |
     *                                 ,------|------|------|       |------+------+------.
     *                                 |      |      | PgUp |       | Home |      |      |
     *                                 | BkSp | Del  |------|       |------| Enter| Space|
     *                                 |      |      | PgDn |       | End  |      |      |
     *                                 `--------------------'       `--------------------'



quote author=luisbg link=topic=42463.msg1556132#msg1556132 date=1418056253]
I think the layout would work fine in windows but OSX and Linux users would have some issues, especially when it comes to using vim and shortcuts, the windows ctrl-c ctrl-z ctrl-v might also be a bit problematic since you would have to move your right hand off the mouse :)

[attach=1]

Fixed the Copy, Paste, Cut and Undo.
I use vim and emacs extensively but I have reconfigured the shortcuts. In vim the only ones impacted would the navigation keys, which in this layout you could use the arrows in Layer 1 as easily and close to home.
[/quote]
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Mon, 08 December 2014, 11:36:56
I did something very similar but having the arrow keys on the right hand. Then I made the rest of the Layer 1 so all programming/cli symbols are easy to reach.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: nomaded on Tue, 09 December 2014, 00:23:03
This is my current Dvorak-based layout: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358 (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358).

I don't actually use the .hex created by the Massdrop configurator. I have ported the layout to Ben Blazak's "partial rewrite" branch. The branch allows me to customize the LED behavior, and also some of "shifted keys" and control combo keys.

I find myself not really using the 1.5u keys on the outside columns not very much. I mostly access punctuation by holding the layer toggle with my right thumb and hitting the appropriate key with my fingers.

My ultimate goal of this layout was to move away from overloading my pinky fingers. I'd rather overload my thumbs and index fingers. The only concession is leaving the shift keys on "row 4" on my pinky fingers. One of my first layouts had shift on my thumbs and I couldn't get used to it, so I gave up after 3 weeks of trying.

Also, I use my thumbs to hit space, backspace and (forward) delete. The arrow keys are arrayed vi-style, and I shift my right hand down to hit them. I've gotten quite used to sliding my hand down, and back up to home row for typing.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Tue, 09 December 2014, 05:48:31
This is my current Dvorak-based layout: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358 (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358).

In Layer 2 do you have center row-right columns as 9 0 or as ( ) ?

I like some of your ideas.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Data on Tue, 09 December 2014, 08:03:49
My basic/beginner QWERTY layout:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=RQWW4N&hash=5ccc0e67e28a6bb1368bef9e6e6558b5

Question about layer mods: Is it necessary to put [~L1] (toggle) on layer one so that it stays "shifted" to that layer while the key is pressed?  I'm still learning the behaviors of the different mod types.  Thanks.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Tue, 09 December 2014, 09:01:39
My basic/beginner QWERTY layout:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=RQWW4N&hash=5ccc0e67e28a6bb1368bef9e6e6558b5

Question about layer mods: Is it necessary to put [~L1] (toggle) on layer one so that it stays "shifted" to that layer while the key is pressed?  I'm still learning the behaviors of the different mod types.  Thanks.

This wasn't clear to me either when I started. From the docs it seems like the destination layer's button must be the same or transparent. This way the button release event doesn't confuse it.

Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Data on Tue, 09 December 2014, 10:07:18
Yeah, transparent might make more sense.  I'll play around with it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Tue, 09 December 2014, 11:10:47
Yeah, transparent might make more sense.  I'll play around with it.  Thanks.

No problem! Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: nomaded on Tue, 09 December 2014, 21:00:22
This is my current Dvorak-based layout: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358 (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QWFQXZ&hash=a3a33bc0a270c17a7144d34d7d965358).

In Layer 2 do you have center row-right columns as 9 0 or as ( ) ?

I like some of your ideas.

They are mapped as ( ). The Massdrop configurator doesn't have that option, so I put the closest into the layout. The version that I compiled from Ben Blazak's partial-rewrite branch allows to type all the symbols on Layer 2 by holding the layer toggle key with my thumb.

Also, in case you're wondering about Layers 1/3, they behave the same way as Layers 0/2 but the OS is doing the Dvorak translation. So, on computers that have the OS set to EN-US, then I use Layer 0 to type Dvorak. On computers that have the OS set to EN-Dvorak, then I use Layer 1 to type Dvorak. This second configuration is useful where I have a "normal" keyboard also connected.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Wed, 10 December 2014, 04:48:25
In Layer 2 do you have center row-right columns as 9 0 or as ( ) ?

I like some of your ideas.

They are mapped as ( ). The Massdrop configurator doesn't have that option, so I put the closest into the layout. The version that I compiled from Ben Blazak's partial-rewrite branch allows to type all the symbols on Layer 2 by holding the layer toggle key with my thumb.

Also, in case you're wondering about Layers 1/3, they behave the same way as Layers 0/2 but the OS is doing the Dvorak translation. So, on computers that have the OS set to EN-US, then I use Layer 0 to type Dvorak. On computers that have the OS set to EN-Dvorak, then I use Layer 1 to type Dvorak. This second configuration is useful where I have a "normal" keyboard also connected.

Why the need to even worry about what the OS in the computer has? You can do it all in the keyboards microcontroller and just send key character events.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Wed, 10 December 2014, 07:25:00
Unfortunately the guys that designed the USB keyboard spec mostly just copied the old PS2 speck which means that we are stuck with scancodes.

Each scancode is then translated to a character depending on the keyboard layout and modifier status by the OS.

Lets say for example that you wanted the scancode that usually results in . and > to instead do . and : the only way to do this is on the OS level.

In Layer 2 do you have center row-right columns as 9 0 or as ( ) ?

I like some of your ideas.

They are mapped as ( ). The Massdrop configurator doesn't have that option, so I put the closest into the layout. The version that I compiled from Ben Blazak's partial-rewrite branch allows to type all the symbols on Layer 2 by holding the layer toggle key with my thumb.

Also, in case you're wondering about Layers 1/3, they behave the same way as Layers 0/2 but the OS is doing the Dvorak translation. So, on computers that have the OS set to EN-US, then I use Layer 0 to type Dvorak. On computers that have the OS set to EN-Dvorak, then I use Layer 1 to type Dvorak. This second configuration is useful where I have a "normal" keyboard also connected.

Why the need to even worry about what the OS in the computer has? You can do it all in the keyboards microcontroller and just send key character events.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Wed, 10 December 2014, 07:52:48
Unfortunately the guys that designed the USB keyboard spec mostly just copied the old PS2 speck which means that we are stuck with scancodes.

Each scancode is then translated to a character depending on the keyboard layout and modifier status by the OS.

Lets say for example that you wanted the scancode that usually results in . and > to instead do . and : the only way to do this is on the OS level.

You can do that in hardware by using tmk_keyboard. Sure it is more work to set up each key, but once done you can use it in any computer plug-and-play.

For example, you could have the Shift keys be a momentary layer switching key, and in that layer have whatever character assigned to each key. I understand though that because of scancodes to have this working I am assuming all computers would have the same layout, EN-US since it is the most common.

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/doc/keymap.md
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Wed, 10 December 2014, 09:24:58
The issue is that many of the symbols and keys simply are not available on a "standard US keyboard", on top of that you get into some nasty issues when it comes to sticky keys. While the tmk firmware allows you to send any number of scancodes in a sequence you are still limited by the US keyboard layout of the computer you are connected to which coincidentally is also different depending on if you are talking about Windows, Mac or Linux.

If the people that designed the USB keyboard standard would have had half a brain between them they would have allowed keyboards to send Unicode characters rather than or in addition to scancodes.


Unfortunately the guys that designed the USB keyboard spec mostly just copied the old PS2 speck which means that we are stuck with scancodes.

Each scancode is then translated to a character depending on the keyboard layout and modifier status by the OS.

Lets say for example that you wanted the scancode that usually results in . and > to instead do . and : the only way to do this is on the OS level.

You can do that in hardware by using tmk_keyboard. Sure it is more work to set up each key, but once done you can use it in any computer plug-and-play.

For example, you could have the Shift keys be a momentary layer switching key, and in that layer have whatever character assigned to each key. I understand though that because of scancodes to have this working I am assuming all computers would have the same layout, EN-US since it is the most common.

https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/doc/keymap.md
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Wed, 10 December 2014, 09:44:09
The issue is that many of the symbols and keys simply are not available on a "standard US keyboard", on top of that you get into some nasty issues when it comes to sticky keys. While the tmk firmware allows you to send any number of scancodes in a sequence you are still limited by the US keyboard layout of the computer you are connected to which coincidentally is also different depending on if you are talking about Windows, Mac or Linux.

If the people that designed the USB keyboard standard would have had half a brain between them they would have allowed keyboards to send Unicode characters rather than or in addition to scancodes.

Interesting! Right, didn't thought about things like é, ç, or € not being in the standard US keyboard layout and that meaning no scancodes unless the layout is changed in the OS.
Very true that the USB keyboard standard is bad bad. There must be some reason for this, something more reasonable than just easy conversion from PS2 to USB. Will investigate.

So if I want to have both €, £, $, Ñ and ñ  in the Layer 1 of my keyboard... what layout do I chose in the OS?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Wed, 10 December 2014, 10:02:59
I searched and discovered that there are very few layouts that have all the characters, and none across platforms.

Linux as ha US International QWERTY layout that's not bad but all the characters are still in silly places
Colemak on most platforms has the characters but they are still badly placed and each platform again has it's own Colemak implementation.

I also changed some optimizations to account for programming languages and non English languages.

https://github.com/antevens/gelatin

Personally I wrote my own layouts for Win/Linux/Mac where I created a custom layout and then implemented for both Programmable keyboards and non programmable. So when you are using a programmable keyboard all the standard ASCII characters are in the right places so console/VMWare and other edge cases still work as they should without having to type in QWERTY.



The issue is that many of the symbols and keys simply are not available on a "standard US keyboard", on top of that you get into some nasty issues when it comes to sticky keys. While the tmk firmware allows you to send any number of scancodes in a sequence you are still limited by the US keyboard layout of the computer you are connected to which coincidentally is also different depending on if you are talking about Windows, Mac or Linux.




If the people that designed the USB keyboard standard would have had half a brain between them they would have allowed keyboards to send Unicode characters rather than or in addition to scancodes.

Interesting! Right, didn't thought about things like é, ç, or € not being in the standard US keyboard layout and that meaning no scancodes unless the layout is changed in the OS.
Very true that the USB keyboard standard is bad bad. There must be some reason for this, something more reasonable than just easy conversion from PS2 to USB. Will investigate.

So if I want to have both €, £, $, Ñ and ñ  in the Layer 1 of my keyboard... what layout do I chose in the OS?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Wed, 10 December 2014, 12:00:46
I searched and discovered that there are very few layouts that have all the characters, and none across platforms.

Linux as ha US International QWERTY layout that's not bad but all the characters are still in silly places
Colemak on most platforms has the characters but they are still badly placed and each platform again has it's own Colemak implementation.

I also changed some optimizations to account for programming languages and non English languages.

https://github.com/antevens/gelatin

Personally I wrote my own layouts for Win/Linux/Mac where I created a custom layout and then implemented for both Programmable keyboards and non programmable. So when you are using a programmable keyboard all the standard ASCII characters are in the right places so console/VMWare and other edge cases still work as they should without having to type in QWERTY.

For my needs of having €, £, $, Ñ and ñ the QWERTY US International works for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#US-International

Need to make the tilde and quote not dead keys, but that isn't too much trouble with tmk_keyboard.

I understand that if you wanted *all* character that would be impossible. Keyboards should switch to Unicode!
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Wed, 10 December 2014, 13:09:05
I limited myself to all languages that use the Latin based alphabet, I got so fed up with changing layouts for the different European languages, now I have one layout to rule them all :)


I searched and discovered that there are very few layouts that have all the characters, and none across platforms.

Linux as ha US International QWERTY layout that's not bad but all the characters are still in silly places
Colemak on most platforms has the characters but they are still badly placed and each platform again has it's own Colemak implementation.

I also changed some optimizations to account for programming languages and non English languages.

https://github.com/antevens/gelatin

Personally I wrote my own layouts for Win/Linux/Mac where I created a custom layout and then implemented for both Programmable keyboards and non programmable. So when you are using a programmable keyboard all the standard ASCII characters are in the right places so console/VMWare and other edge cases still work as they should without having to type in QWERTY.

For my needs of having €, £, $, Ñ and ñ the QWERTY US International works for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#US-International

Need to make the tilde and quote not dead keys, but that isn't too much trouble with tmk_keyboard.

I understand that if you wanted *all* character that would be impossible. Keyboards should switch to Unicode!
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Wed, 10 December 2014, 14:09:20
I limited myself to all languages that use the Latin based alphabet, I got so fed up with changing layouts for the different European languages, now I have one layout to rule them all :)

Stop typing in so many languages hahahahhaaa
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: nomaded on Thu, 11 December 2014, 19:15:46
Why the need to even worry about what the OS in the computer has? You can do it all in the keyboards microcontroller and just send key character events.

Unfortunately the guys that designed the USB keyboard spec mostly just copied the old PS2 speck which means that we are stuck with scancodes.

Each scancode is then translated to a character depending on the keyboard layout and modifier status by the OS.

Lets say for example that you wanted the scancode that usually results in . and > to instead do . and : the only way to do this is on the OS level.

Indeed, scancodes is the ultimate problem. I'm a sysadmin by trade, and I mostly use remote access of all sorts to connect to various machines in various places on the planet. Ultimately, most of them expect EN-US as the layout. And between the multitude of OSes I work with, the various remote access apps, translations can get munged along the way. Being able to easily flip back and forth between EN-US and EN-Dvorak with a push of a key makes my life much easier. Also, there are other people that I work with that will access these machines.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Fri, 12 December 2014, 06:06:36
Indeed, scancodes is the ultimate problem. I'm a sysadmin by trade, and I mostly use remote access of all sorts to connect to various machines in various places on the planet. Ultimately, most of them expect EN-US as the layout. And between the multitude of OSes I work with, the various remote access apps, translations can get munged along the way. Being able to easily flip back and forth between EN-US and EN-Dvorak with a push of a key makes my life much easier. Also, there are other people that I work with that will access these machines.

I agree. But there is a workaround to the limitations of scan codes; using the power of ErgoDox's Teensy to convert keycode presses to some other ANSI layout scancode.

You can do this with both tmk_keyboard and haata's code. The real limitation is that keycodes are passed as an 8 bit unsigned integer, and most of the values are already taken.

You can see it done in these two examples:
https://github.com/luisbg/tmk_keyboard/blob/buteck/keyboard/ergodox/keymap_buteck.h#L222
https://github.com/luisbg/tmk_keyboard/blob/buteck/keyboard/hhkb_rn42/rn42/rn42_task.c#L234

Map of already taken keycodes:
https://github.com/luisbg/tmk_keyboard/blob/buteck/common/keycode.h#L164

You have the region 0xC0 to 0xDF to create your own, which is 32 values.
https://github.com/luisbg/tmk_keyboard/blob/buteck/common/keycode.h#L426

That said, it is an ugly workaround forced by the legacy mess that is USB -> PS2 -> scancodes. I wonder how much work would it be to write a Linux Kernel Driver for a USB keyboard that just sends unicode characters. Using something like Upwards Double Arrow (U+21d1) for Page Up, and similar for special keys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Fri, 12 December 2014, 07:05:20
I think we might have a fun concept for a new project here, design and implement a new proper USB keyboard protocol, native NKRO, Unicode, ohh, how much simpler the world would be.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: luisbg on Fri, 12 December 2014, 08:15:50
I think we might have a fun concept for a new project here, design and implement a new proper USB keyboard protocol, native NKRO, Unicode, ohh, how much simpler the world would be.

Time to undust this from my bookshelf?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linux-Device-Drivers-Jonathan-Corbet/dp/0596005903/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418393540&sr=1-1
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: jalli on Fri, 12 December 2014, 08:52:09
LOL, yeah, it's been years since I did any driver work, the other thing is that for it to catch on we'd have to develop Win/Mac drivers as well, or rather Win and BSD drivers.


I think we might have a fun concept for a new project here, design and implement a new proper USB keyboard protocol, native NKRO, Unicode, ohh, how much simpler the world would be.

Time to undust this from my bookshelf?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linux-Device-Drivers-Jonathan-Corbet/dp/0596005903/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418393540&sr=1-1
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: wackottl on Mon, 09 March 2015, 12:44:47
I'm starting my hardware build tonight and I'm getting the layout ready while I wait for the parts to arrive.

I use my F-keys more then most and even use Shift-F5, f6, and F8. I want to add a fn and fn lock buttons to turn my numerals into F keys and I'm not quite getting how. 

In fact, I can't seem to figure out how to add the layer keys either because the configuration tool asks to left click and press the key you want, but I have no layer keys on my current board.

Is this something I add with code?
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: wackottl on Tue, 10 March 2015, 09:24:30
Ah, I found my problem!

Right clicking wasn't doing anything for me anytime I tried it because I was always using my work PC.  Once I tried it at home I got all the options I couldn't get before.

makes much more sense now.
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: HughJarss on Wed, 06 July 2016, 01:36:50
Is there any way I can have dedicated keys for proper opening double quote, closing double quote, etcetera?
As in, what I'd get on the Mac by typing: Alt + [
or: Alt + Shift + [

The Massdrop configurator isn't letting me do this. And I write genre fiction that has a LOT of dialogue.

The reason I need to do this is because smart quotes are not smart, they're stupid and annoying — whenever I type an em-dash then a double quote (which should be closing quote) I get an opening quote. So I have to type quote, quote, go back a character, delete the first one, go forward a character — instead of just typing a closing quote.

Also, when replacing the beginning of a word with an apostrophe, it puts an opening quote instead of a closing one — words like 'em (for them), stuff like that.

So far, I've wasted more hours unsuccessfully researching this than it'll save me in five years! Still, I'm young. Okay, middle aged. Alright, I'm old. But I might live longer than five years, and besides, I need all that time back…
Title: Re: ErgoDox Layouts
Post by: Data on Wed, 06 July 2016, 09:02:31
Is there any way I can have dedicated keys for proper opening double quote, closing double quote, etcetera?
As in, what I'd get on the Mac by typing: Alt + [
or: Alt + Shift + [

The Massdrop configurator isn't letting me do this. And I write genre fiction that has a LOT of dialogue.

The reason I need to do this is because smart quotes are not smart, they're stupid and annoying — whenever I type an em-dash then a double quote (which should be closing quote) I get an opening quote. So I have to type quote, quote, go back a character, delete the first one, go forward a character — instead of just typing a closing quote.

Also, when replacing the beginning of a word with an apostrophe, it puts an opening quote instead of a closing one — words like 'em (for them), stuff like that.

So far, I've wasted more hours unsuccessfully researching this than it'll save me in five years! Still, I'm young. Okay, middle aged. Alright, I'm old. But I might live longer than five years, and besides, I need all that time back…
Sounds like you have two problems.  One with your software behavior - can't help you with that - and one with the configurator.

Unfortunately you can't assign the formal-style quotation marks from the Massdrop Configurator.  The Configurator only allows a limited set of keyboard scan codes.  The left and right double quotes are from the extended Unicode character set (U+201C and U+201D) and are not found among the standard scan codes (more on those here (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/scan.htm)).

It should be possible to program those characters on a Function layer in the Ergodox, but you'll have to build your own firmware for that.  Basically you're programming a macro for Alt+0147 and Alt+0148 on two keys.  If you're not already familiar with computer programming (writing "code"), or very adventurous, then this might be more trouble than it's worth.

Some alternatives: