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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ShivaYash on Sun, 26 May 2013, 12:13:20
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
Thanks.
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The typing experience is fantastic. However, the layout is not for everybody. A lower cost alternative that's easier to get used to and has a similar typing experience is the Leopold FC660C (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,compact&pid=fc660c).
Not sure where to get it in the UK though.
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Buildquality, crisp, Sharp and exact keyswitches. dyesub pbt keycaps, small form factor. ;)
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What's make the HHK keyboard so special?
UNIX layout
Topre switches + specific construction
build quality and keycaps
swag
Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
Nope. I couldn't care less.
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Thanks... its nice to hear praise from those actually in the know.
I am trying on out on Tuesday so will report back, potentially to purchase as my third mechanical board.
Any cons?
Lets see.
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The cons are also considered to be its pros to some people. For example, the layout was my problem, but others seem to love the keyboard for its layout.
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It provided a 60% form factor long before anyone else delivered. It was different, a reissue of the old Unix layout with a function layer to give it the full range of a 104 keyboard. It had otaku keys before the definition of otaku layout even existed. It was well marketed, with a carrying case and a tidy compact layout.
Remember, the oldest HHKBs in the 90s were rubber dome. There still exists the lite option which is a RD.
Hype really factors into it, since portability of the build meant cheaper options (plastic plate, for example) and gimmicky crap like the integrated USB hub. It could be a lot better, especially for its cost. I would hardly recommend buying one unless the portability factor is a must. Otherwise go FC660C, or Realforce.
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The cons are also considered to be its pros to some people. For example, the layout was my problem, but others seem to love the keyboard for its layout.
I would say that you love or hate the layout depending on were you come from. If you do a lot of work in an *nix environment with vim or emacs and the terminal, it is a really great layout because these software tools
were actually written on keyboards with this layout. (The awesome window manager is really fun too)
But I think this layout is a huge pain in the A Es Es if you want to do a lot of arrow-key and number action aka MS Excel.
Since I spend my day in vim, I really appreciate the layout and remaped all my other keyboards with xmodmap to this layout too.
(I really like MX blues too)
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Again thanks for the further comments on this topic.
I am a PhD student so spend 99% of my time in Word, and just wanted something great to type on, this is why I originally opted for the FILCO TK. I like having the numpad on my main computer, but since going over to mechanical keyboards, I basically find it really difficult to type on keyboards supplied by my school. My hands hurt after a day so I wanted a 60% form factor.
As I have come from the FILCO benchmark, I really wanted a plate mounted mini board, and therefore was delighted when the Poker 2 was launched, as this is plate mounted. I did consider the FILCO MINILA but the layout seemed a little odd, the price wasn't to my liking either, as was the weight.
The HHK is only being considered really as there happens to be on for sale in London and there is much hype about this board. Interestingly I have just joined DeskThority and there was a senior member on there speaking very highly about this particular board. When I asked him (I presume he is a chap) which variant he owned, he confessed saying that he hadn't actually used one nor does he in fact own one!
The web is an odd place and one has to be careful of reading reviews... an alleged top product like HHK is endorsed without warrant and clever marketing/ limited availability maintains this.
All that has been said on here is very useful, I will reply once I have seen/ tried the board on Tue afternoon.
Many thanks to all.
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Honestly, I don't see any reason to go with HHKB instead of GH60 or something, unless you fall in love with Topre switches.
I've tried HHKB, it was nice and beautiful, but one needs to resist the urge to buy _everything_. It's only a keyboard after all, and my $100 choc mini works just fine. Moreover, DIY¹ is much more fun than spending money IMHO.
¹ I'm building myself an ErgoDox, modding a point-of-sale keyboard, and want to build a GH80
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PS: I have long since sold my HHKB. My FC660C is in the mail. :)
I do like Topre switches but not the prices they command.
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For me, it's primarily layout, then build quality, then of course the topre switch. It definitely has a unique feel to it versus other topre boards. I also like that it works perfectly with Mac OS out of the box.
And then of course, the infamous 'thock' of the HHKB, which is also unique from all other topre boards.
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The HHKB is great and it has a better sound than the Leopold. It doesn't have the dedicated arrow keys which is really it's biggest drawback in my opinion. Also, it does seem to slip around a bit and i wish they put better padding on the bottom. I have both the Leopold and the HHKB and while i love the Leopold, the HHKB is still better but not by that much.
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HHKB is classic, it's the quintessential "SFF" UNIX keyboard. It's not hard to get newish ones for $200. So I personally wouldn't view the FC660C as better, considering it's small list of oddities / annoyances.
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For me its just the layout and the topre switches. As well as lightweight and easy to take to and from work.
I dont even do anything in linux and have no idea what Vim is. I just value comfortability a lot and this layout is perfect for me, never have to reach anywhere
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UNIX layout
HHKB is classic, it's the quintessential "SFF" UNIX keyboard.
But what on earth is going on in the upper right corner of the layout? Why did they move tilde/backtick to such an unwieldy place, instead of leaving it where it was (and putting escape on second layer)? I use that key a lot more than Esc in Linux. I also don't see the point of moving backslash/pipe, which is also a key I use much more than Delete/Backspace (Bash, Vim and Emacs have other shortcuts for this). Is this a Mac thing?
I am a PhD student so spend 99% of my time in Word, and just wanted something great to type on, this is why I originally opted for the FILCO TK.
Are you ****ing serious? For the love of god, don't get a HHKB if you're using Word!
I like having the numpad on my main computer, but since going over to mechanical keyboards, I basically find it really difficult to type on keyboards supplied by my school. My hands hurt after a day so I wanted a 60% form factor.
I seriously doubt that a 60% keyboard will make your hands hurt less. The cause is likely to lie somewhere else. You should try experimenting with different software layouts and hand/arm postures.
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mmm, I actually like the hhkb layout alot.. (although I prefer poker's second layer)
I like how ESC is there and tilde is on the other side actually. I am on VIM mostly now and I'm quite sure I prefer ESC on the first layer :P
Edit: Also, 60% layout is like...a godsend. You can place your keyboard at the center of your monitor without your mouse going all the way to the far right now. When I use my QFR now, I feel like the keyboard positioning is a little limited...
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I am a PhD student so spend 99% of my time in Word, and just wanted something great to type on, this is why I originally opted for the FILCO TK.
Are you ****ing serious? For the love of god, don't get a HHKB if you're using Word!
What's wrong this this, why can't us non geeks enjoy the delights of a mechanical keyboard? I like the fact the HHK is Mac compatible out of the box, I can't find another 60% board which does this, although the Poker does have the option to change things, but its not the same. I'm going to see what the fuss is all about tomorrow afternoon.
Anyone else got any tips? If 1cc is right, what sort of 60% board should I be looking at for my particular MS Word needs?
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I like the fact the HHK is Mac compatible out of the box, I can't find another 60% board which does this
All mech keyboards are Mac compatible out of the box, exceptions being those with the NKRO over USB hack which are Noppoo boards (Ducky too, but it is a DIP switch setting you can disable).
But the HHKB is a very niche if not hyped board. You will not want to word process or (definitely) do data entry/spreadsheet apps without a dedicated numpad. Topre Realforce has fullsize options which are just as comfy as a HHKB but with a completely familar layout. If you must go 60%, the FC660C is attractive because of the DIP options to swap menu/win/function keys around to make it HHKB-esque/more Mac friendly without software remaps, while still having an arrow cluster. It also costs 33% less than a HHKB.
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I like the fact the HHK is Mac compatible out of the box, I can't find another 60% board which does this
All mech keyboards are Mac compatible out of the box, exceptions being those with the NKRO over USB hack which are Noppoo boards (Ducky too, but it is a DIP switch setting you can disable).
But the HHKB is a very niche if not hyped board. You will not want to word process or (definitely) do data entry/spreadsheet apps without a dedicated numpad. Topre Realforce has fullsize options which are just as comfy as a HHKB but with a completely familar layout. If you must go 60%, the FC660C is attractive because of the DIP options to swap menu/win/function keys around to make it HHKB-esque/more Mac friendly without software remaps, while still having an arrow cluster. It also costs 33% less than a HHKB.
The HHKB has more Mac features available and dip switch settings than the F660C and for a Mac user it doesn't have the Win logo keys. Neither are well suited for data entry/spreadsheet use but for writing I believe the HHKB is about the finest typing experience to be had. Whenever I have some writing to do I prefer to do it on my HHKB.
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But the HHKB is a very niche if not hyped board. You will not want to word process or (definitely) do data entry/spreadsheet apps without a dedicated numpad. Topre Realforce has fullsize options which are just as comfy as a HHKB but with a completely familar layout.
Why wouldn't you want to do word processing? It is perfectly fast and easy to use...
Full size options on a RF is a pretty irrelevant point...
People like the HHKB because they like how it feels and they have been able to adapt to the layout...And when I say that I mean mainly adapting to the lack of dedicated arrow keys (Or not being where some might want them).
If you can its great...if not the 660c looks like a great option. I think the only downside to them are the caps..the durability isn't fantastic.
Is the HHKB hype because you prefer another keyboard? Absolutely not...it is a very well made board and it seems like most seem to agree it gives you the best Topre experience or the best "thonk". Whether or not it is the right keyboard for you is all up to your personal preferences.
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Its only special to people without a FC600C. :p
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I have neither, but I use the arrow keys and function keys sufficiently often that I would find either layout awkward.
Having said that, I can appreciate that the HHKB layout is aimed at people who would, say, almost exclusively use a (UNIX-like) command line, and the Control key is in the same position as it used to be on dumb terminals in the olden days.
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I use the function and arrow keys quite frequently, and you'd be surprised at how easy and not-really-awkward the FC660C layout is.
@ShivaYash: I think what 1cc was saying was that word processing in MS Word is heavily dependent on the arrow keys and page up/down and home/end, which are fairly awkward to use on the HHKB for someone coming from a standard full size or tenkeyless layout.
However, there are quite a few members of this forum who've adapted to the HHKB layout quite happily (iMav being a notable example). As always, try it out for yourself and make your own decision. The good thing about HHKBs is that if you don't like it you can resell it here for almost as much as you purchased it for.
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I wish I had the spare cash lying around to buy one in the first place ;)
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Right now seems to be a good time to buy a Topre switch keyboard prices are the lowest I've seen in awile (at least for the US market).
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The price for new HHKB at EK went down, even if just a little.
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I haven't seen anywhere in Australia selling HHKB2 Pro, but I can pick up a Realforce 87U for $179.00, which seems fairly cheap.
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That's a great price for an 87U. Go for it!
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A tad over my budget at the moment :(
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Have never tried a 60% keyboard, though I really dig the way they look. From a practical perspective however, I doubt they would suit me better than a normal tenkeyless. Would be interesting in trying the HHK if the price to try was not as high.
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My personal opinion is that the HHKB is a fantastic board. I got it to replace my Blackwidow Ultimate after the thing shat itself and died. I bought it without really doing all that much research first, but I loved the form factor of it. I've found that the function layer is pretty intuitive. I really haven't had trouble at all getting used to it. That being said, however, I am now heading back into the world of Cherry. More out of curiosity than dissatisfaction. I'm curious to see how the topre switch will hold up against the greens and blacks I have on their way!
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Well I am the proud new owner of a 'nearly-new' HHKB Pro 2 in black, what I am calling, the usual version. It was for sale in my home city and I met this chap this evening, after work, we agreed and price and I bagged a bargain.
The jury is out on my initial thoughts, the layout is making my wrists hurt, and since obtaining two 60% boards in less than two days, I have some exciting new toys to play with.
I am still in love with my FILCO and the Poker II is getting a fair share of use at school, on a PC.
The HHKB is far to precious to carry around in my coat pocket... but I am being just that, precious.
I do like the Topre switches, they take a little more force than my Cherry Browns to active, and have a far different sound than I was expecting. More review like material to follow in a few days of solid 'work'.
With best wishes,
ShivaYash
PS. And yes, the layout is sort of working for me, but I have realised just how frequently my right hand drops looking for cursor keys, using the FILCO TK is pure heaven, until I get use to these little boards.
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The HHKB took some getting used to for me but now i love it and i would never part with it. I would give it a lot more time to make your final decision but at least you got it for a bargain and it was in good shape. Enjoy! :D
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The HHKB took some getting used to for me but now i love it and i would never part with it. I would give it a lot more time to make your final decision but at least you got it for a bargain and it was in good shape. Enjoy! :D
Thanks... yes I know, I am all about giving something time to bed in, and with a new keyboard, this is a must.
Do you have any issues using yours with USB devices?
Even a little USB flash drive doesn't work in mine. I have plugged the KB into the rear of my iMac via a cheap USB cable. What sort of USB cable did you KB come with? The chap who I purchased from has lost the 'original cable' and supplied me with a Motorola USB cable, presumably for this mobile phone.
I think I have asked this before, but are there qualities of USB cables, and which brands are considered the better quality ones, OR, does it not really matter, if its a USB, its a USB...
Best wishes,
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I use just a basic USB cable. It's the same one that i use for all of my keyboards. Nothing special. I have my wireless mouse adapter plugged into the USB port but i haven't plugged in anything else to know if it works or not. I have heard the complaints that the USB doesn't work for other things and that is too bad. The keyboard is wonderful though and anytime a keyboard has a builtin USB port it is a bonus.
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The usb hub on the HHKB only can supply 100Ma which makes it not very useful. I've only had one usb flash drive work with it a Corsair Voyager, others not enough power. Most keyboards with useful hubs have two usb cables one for the keyboard and the other for the hub. Most of those are aimed for the gamer market.
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UNIX layout
HHKB is classic, it's the quintessential "SFF" UNIX keyboard.
But what on earth is going on in the upper right corner of the layout? Why did they move tilde/backtick to such an unwieldy place, instead of leaving it where it was (and putting escape on second layer)? I use that key a lot more than Esc in Linux. I also don't see the point of moving backslash/pipe, which is also a key I use much more than Delete/Backspace (Bash, Vim and Emacs have other shortcuts for this). Is this a Mac thing?
No, it is surely not a Mac thing. This Blog (http://www.catonmat.net/blog/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys) not only explains why 'hjkl' are used to navigate in vim but shows a keyboard of those days too and you
can see were the ~-key used to be and why it's the abbrevation for 'HOME' in Unix. Same thing with the escape key, though you got a point with '\|'.
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I think the HHKB is special because it's one of the few keyboards that will return your affection. I know my Filco doesn't do that.
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This Blog (http://www.catonmat.net/blog/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys) not only explains why 'hjkl' are used to navigate in vim but shows a keyboard of those days too and you can see were the ~-key used to be and why it's the abbrevation for 'HOME' in Unix. Same thing with the escape key, though you got a point with '\|'.
Excellent dude, thanks for that. :D
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I think the HHKB is special because it's one of the few keyboards that will return your affection. I know my Filco doesn't do that.
Perhaps your FILCO isn't working properly, mine returns affection by the bucket load ;D
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Its only special to people without a FC600C. :p
Lies. :P
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I am sort of beginning to understand the hype this board creates. I'm still not there fully but I do like Topre switches. It would of course be nice to one day soon test a RealForce board with the same switches, I hear they do feel different.
In terms of build quality, when comparing the HHKB and Poker II, it really doesn't seem to be that much in it. I know this sounds crazy but the little Poker 2/ II is really very nicely made and certainly the unit I have, has great weight and feeling to it. I was expecting something much less for its a massive bang for my relative low buck.
So by way of mini conclusion, its like comparing a Mercedes and BMW... they are different but there really isn't that much in the quality department between them. In other respects they are miles apart, diametrical opposed some might say.
More anon.
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i think realforce is a much better value than hhk
hhk is just a status symbol
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i think realforce is a much better value than hhk
hhk is just a status symbol
I could agree more but in this form factor, HHKB has had a monopoly for quite some time. I look forward to a FC660 vs HHKB standoff. I'm sure the former will come out on top. The HHKB is old and now with just as good 60% boards hitting the market, they will need to change their appeal.
I think and of course I could be totally wrong.
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I loved the HHKB layout personally. If I didn't game so much it would be the only board I use.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
yes.
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
no.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
yes.
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
no.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.
That's creepy, especially looking at your avatar.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
yes.
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
no.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.
Hmmm... not exactly sure what to make of this but if it floats your boat, then keep floating my friend. I predict the HHKB will be having some troubles shortly as more boards are realised with the magically Topre switch. I am keen to try a RealForce board and see if there are any differences... in theory there should not be, but I find Cherry MX varies from board to board.
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Hmmm... not exactly sure what to make of this but if it floats your boat, then keep floating my friend. I predict the HHKB will be having some troubles shortly as more boards are realised with the magically Topre switch. I am keen to try a RealForce board and see if there are any differences... in theory there should not be, but I find Cherry MX varies from board to board.
I think Leopold has some special licensing agreement to do it but I think it would be great if more companies came out with Topre based boards.
As far as your "theory". Not sure where you're coming up with that...There is most definitely a difference in feel between the RF and HHKB. I don't think anyone has said they feel the same. Some people will like the plate, some people prefer the case mounted switches of the HHKB. I think everyone agrees you get more "thock" with a HHKB...if you like that then you'll probably prefer the HHKB. If you don't or think it needs to thock less..then the RF will be preferred.
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I haven't tried the 660 yet, but I can confirm that compared to the 45g and 55g realforces the "thockiness" is strongest with the hhkb. Out of the three it's definitely my favorite to type on.
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I have only tried the 45g Realforce and that was a huge disappointment. IMO, the HHKB is the best topre to type on. The sound and build quality is second to none.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
yes.
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
no.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.
That's creepy, especially looking at your avatar.
thank you.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
yes.
I think it's clever marketing and little else.
no.
Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?
It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.
Hmmm... not exactly sure what to make of this but if it floats your boat, then keep floating my friend. I predict the HHKB will be having some troubles shortly as more boards are realised with the magically Topre switch. I am keen to try a RealForce board and see if there are any differences... in theory there should not be, but I find Cherry MX varies from board to board.
Oh, don't get me wrong. It was very frustrating getting used to the HHKB's layout, but it's somewhat gratifying at the same time. If you end up purchasing one, you'll find people wanting to try it out and then immediately displaying a feeling of confusion. It is really one of those, "you'd understand if you had one" types of deals. In a way I believe that it's just a property of compact keyboards that make it inherently frustrating. I had a KBC Poker before the HHKB and that had an weird learning curve as well.
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The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.
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It's not a bug, it's a feature!
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The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.
JP edition.
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Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?
Absolutely not. I am a programmer and I use Emacs and Unix operating system all the time. But personally, I would like to have consistency among different keyboards I use (external keyboard and Macbook laptop keyboard). So Realforce is a better choice for me.
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I see some videos of them and I find the sound of it horrendous compared to Leopold FC660C (and it even beats in 'thock'ness even the Topre boards). What are they putting in the Leopold to make it so 'thock'?
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Well I am beginning to like the HHKB, but I agree it has a massively annoying key layout. I think I have said this before, either in this thread or a similar one, the HHKB is a status symbol. Much like a shiny Rolex other bling considered worthy by current standards.
The Topre switch is nice but is it really that different to the Cherry offerings?
I am undecided, but I do like the feedback I get. I find myself switching keyboard depending on the particular task I am doing.
For editing work, which is my staple, I prefer cursor keys, and in fact didn't realise just how much I used them in my work. Therefore I use my Cherry MX Brown FILCO TK. Its a beast and I love the way it sounds... hardly silent, but I should I gotten Blues for my 'home' board. Anyway... I'm now stuck with it. I find Browns have a pleasing nose, a satisfying sound. Perhaps the click of the Blues would annoy me. If I see a cheap Cherry Blue board on eBay I'll most likely pick it up, just to try.
For everything I am using this HHKB, it is a good board, but the mistakes I make are annoying... but now I am repeating myself. I dare not even think about the price.
The Poker II is my travel board and lives in my coat pocket. I love that thing!
Good night...!
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Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.
Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.
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I definitely can appreciate the layout of the HHKB, and wish that my hands agreed with me that it would be a good thing to learn. Unfortunately the fn layer caused me no end of pain, and I ended up trading mine for the FC660C, which is probably (IMHO) the best keyboard ever manufactured. Not even sure if I'm going to go back to my 55g's after this. I seriously can't stop using it.
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The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.
no way. i like the fn arrows.
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Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.
Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.
Perhaps, but as someone who works in Word all the time, I think the Standard layout is far better. I switch computers a fair but and being mainstream is better.
But saying all this, I too have been woo'ed by the hype of this HHKB, it is a status symbol and guess what, I wanted one. There is being different and being different.
I also have another theory, once your mechanical cherry has popped, and you are conditioned by the first click, this first click remains your favourite switch. I am a Cherry MX Browns sort of guy... the sexy Topre is nice and exclusive but I'd like to be the masses for proper work. The try out HHKB stays at home and when I need to do serious work, it is pushed to one side.
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The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.
no way. i like the fn arrows.
Function layer, IMO, is one of the only down falls to the keyboard. It wasn't part of Wada's original design, it was another add on by PFU (kinda like the JIS HHKB and the HHKB lite). While I find it usable I would much prefer Fn layer programming.
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I definitely can appreciate the layout of the HHKB, and wish that my hands agreed with me that it would be a good thing to learn. Unfortunately the fn layer caused me no end of pain, and I ended up trading mine for the FC660C, which is probably (IMHO) the best keyboard ever manufactured. Not even sure if I'm going to go back to my 55g's after this. I seriously can't stop using it.
I really want to trial this board... the cursor keys are calling to me! I do enjoy the weight of the keys I have in my 'basic' HHKB Pro2 - its the black model so I presume they are heavier than yours? Or am I totally wrong?
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Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.
Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.
Perhaps, but as someone who works in Word all the time, I think the Standard layout is far better. I switch computers a fair but and being mainstream is better.
But saying all this, I too have been woo'ed by the hype of this HHKB, it is a status symbol and guess what, I wanted one. There is being different and being different.
I also have another theory, once your mechanical cherry has popped, and you are conditioned by the first click, this first click remains your favourite switch. I am a Cherry MX Browns sort of guy... the sexy Topre is nice and exclusive but I'd like to be the masses for proper work. The try out HHKB stays at home and when I need to do serious work, it is pushed to one side.
eh. i doubt your 'first switch' theory. i started on blues and now i like them about as much as any other cherry MX... which is to say very very little. but w/e, to each their own. also -- word is veeeeeeeery microsoft-y, which is veeeeeeeery NOT unix-y. so a unix layout might not suit you until you adapt to it anyway.
the best way to get good with the HHKB is to NOT push it aside for 'serious work' but instead rely on it.
The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.
no way. i like the fn arrows.
Function layer, IMO, is one of the only down falls to the keyboard. It wasn't part of Wada's original design, it was another add on by PFU (kinda like the JIS HHKB and the HHKB lite). While I find it usable I would much prefer Fn layer programming.
agreed, programmability would be the best but as-is it's really not that bad.
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Don't get me wrong the HHKB is my favorite keyboard. The sound and the build quality is, in my opinion, better than the Leopold. I just would have liked some minor changes. Now, if only they made a HHKB that was Bluetooth and dedicated arrow keys. WHOA!!!! ;D
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I really want to trial this board... the cursor keys are calling to me! I do enjoy the weight of the keys I have in my 'basic' HHKB Pro2 - its the black model so I presume they are heavier than yours? Or am I totally wrong?
If you have a HHKB Pro 2 (not the Lite version), then you have the exact same switches that are in the FC660C. The feel will be slightly different due to the 660C's back plate, but it's barely noticeable.
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His point is good about changing environments. It's not that great not being used to common querty keyboards if you go to random places without carrying your own keyboard. I suspect, as in most keyboards, this is 90% about the switch technology. Since Topre keyboards that are purchasable today for a PC are basically ..3 (three makers only, it's ridiculous even saying it) picking up one and justifying its other features is understandable. I'm not surprised others have exact strong opinions about Leopold and Topre's version. Topre technology in general is fiercely isolated in an unhealthy manner. Literally a handful of models one can pick from when people report they are good. The need either mass production, a more open patent or to clone their patent (legally). The manufacturing difficulty can not reflect that enormous price even if it's increased.
His point about 'first used' switches is wrong. You have to learn to shed nostalgia when it's a benefit because it's unhealthy to stick onto things for the sake of it and not because of quality. I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.
..Even if I did notice lubing scratchy Browns with high viscosity greases turns them into 'cheap Topre'.
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I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.
I rest my case... hype hype and more hype.
The Man Men will be happy.
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I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.
I rest my case... hype hype and more hype.
The Man Men will be happy.
That was also a point against your hype accusations. I take the advice of people that own 20 or more keyboards, that have spent a mountain of money on MX switches and almost always, in literally more than 95% of opinions, they pick the Topre (more than half of them even for gaming).
You can not accuse them of being biased to the price or novelty because if that was their goal, they would be fools to accept the fact the mountain of money they spent on MX went to waste.
In fact, I do have hype under consideration and always dismiss opinions of people that ONLY have a HHKB and nothing else.
(Because there are a ton of people that went from rubber to HHKB and have never used extensively anything else.)
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I'm so pleased this thread as allowed us to debate the pros and cons of this wonderful little board, this message is being typed on the said board.
The internet is a great place but one must be careful of reading too much into the opinions of others. I am shocked, on a weekly basis, how many people express a strong judgement about a particular item, for example, keyboards of the expensive variety. When probed a little, it turns out they don't even own them!
I think ownership, or at the very least, actual physical use of a tangible item like a keyboard is essential before expressing such a strong opinion. For this reason, I take opinions I read online, with a pinch of salt.
Whilst this is what I do, I am not saying all should follow me.
Having had the pleasure of owning this keyboard for little over a week now, I can firmly say, it is a great board but has some major flaws, as have been identified above, for my particular usage. As I picked it up incredibly cheaply, £120, barely used, I will keep it and use it, as and when I want. If it had not been so inexpensive, I would have not been able to trial this board. I realise the price point prevents many from ownership.
The FILCO CHERRY BROWNS remain my number one choice, at for home use, I like the TK board... its a beast for most desks but I have the space, just, to accommodate it.
The HHKB is a status symbol and membership of an elite club. Cherrys are for the masses and I love the new prices points of the Chinese boards coming to market.
Having already reached my limit of three keyboards, I will now have to operate a 'one in, one out' policy.
Thanks for letting me speak my mind, I really enjoy being a part of this online group of like minded people.
Much love,
ShivaYash