What's make the HHK keyboard so special?

[anticorrelator]

I haven't tried the 660 yet, but I can confirm that compared to the 45g and 55g realforces the "thockiness" is strongest with the hhkb. Out of the three it's definitely my favorite to type on.

[ValerieV]

I have only tried the 45g Realforce and that was a huge disappointment. IMO, the HHKB is the best topre to type on. The sound and build quality is second to none.

[Arexxk]

Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?

yes.

I think it's clever marketing and little else.

no.

Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?

It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night. 

That's creepy, especially looking at your avatar.

thank you.

[Arexxk]

Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?

yes.

I think it's clever marketing and little else.

no.

Can someone who actually owns such a magically board explain to me what I'm missing?

It's literally the sexiest hunk of plastic you'll ever touch. I sleep next to mine every night.

Hmmm... not exactly sure what to make of this but if it floats your boat, then keep floating my friend. I predict the HHKB will be having some troubles shortly as more boards are realised with the magically Topre switch. I am keen to try a RealForce board and see if there are any differences... in theory there should not be, but I find Cherry MX varies from board to board.

Oh, don't get me wrong. It was very frustrating getting used to the HHKB's layout, but it's somewhat gratifying at the same time. If you end up purchasing one, you'll find people wanting to try it out and then immediately displaying a feeling of confusion. It is really one of those, "you'd understand if you had one" types of deals. In a way I believe that it's just a property of compact keyboards that make it inherently frustrating. I had a KBC Poker before the HHKB and that had an weird learning curve as well.

[ValerieV]

The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.

[davkol]

It's not a bug, it's a feature!

[fateswarm]

The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.

JP edition.

[yicaoyimu]

Is this really the 'dream board' we all wish to own?

Absolutely not. I am a programmer and I use Emacs and Unix operating system all the time. But personally, I would like to have consistency among different keyboards I use (external keyboard and Macbook laptop keyboard). So Realforce is a better choice for me.

[fateswarm]

I see some videos of them and I find the sound of it horrendous compared to Leopold FC660C (and it even beats in 'thock'ness even the Topre boards). What are they putting in the Leopold to make it so 'thock'?

[ShivaYash]

Well I am beginning to like the HHKB, but I agree it has a massively annoying key layout. I think I have said this before, either in this thread or a similar one, the HHKB is a status symbol. Much like a shiny Rolex other bling considered worthy by current standards.

The Topre switch is nice but is it really that different to the Cherry offerings?

I am undecided, but I do like the feedback I get. I find myself switching keyboard depending on the particular task I am doing.

For editing work, which is my staple, I prefer cursor keys, and in fact didn't realise just how much I used them in my work. Therefore I use my Cherry MX Brown FILCO TK. Its a beast and I love the way it sounds... hardly silent, but I should I gotten Blues for my 'home' board. Anyway... I'm now stuck with it. I find Browns have a pleasing nose, a satisfying sound. Perhaps the click of the Blues would annoy me. If I see a cheap Cherry Blue board on eBay I'll most likely pick it up, just to try.

For everything I am using this HHKB, it is a good board, but the mistakes I make are annoying... but now I am repeating myself. I dare not even think about the price.

The Poker II is my travel board and lives in my coat pocket. I love that thing!

Good night...!

[Michael]

Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.


Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.

[daerid]

I definitely can appreciate the layout of the HHKB, and wish that my hands agreed with me that it would be a good thing to learn. Unfortunately the fn layer caused me no end of pain, and I ended up trading mine for the FC660C, which is probably (IMHO) the best keyboard ever manufactured. Not even sure if I'm going to go back to my 55g's after this. I seriously can't stop using it.

[sth]

The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.

no way. i like the fn arrows.

[ShivaYash]

Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.


Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.

Perhaps, but as someone who works in Word all the time, I think the Standard layout is far better. I switch computers a fair but and being mainstream is better.
But saying all this, I too have been woo'ed by the hype of this HHKB, it is a status symbol and guess what, I wanted one. There is being different and being different.

I also have another theory, once your mechanical cherry has popped, and you are conditioned by the first click, this first click remains your favourite switch. I am a Cherry MX Browns sort of guy... the sexy Topre is nice and exclusive but I'd like to be the masses for proper work. The try out HHKB stays at home and when I need to do serious work, it is pushed to one side.

[jwaz]

The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.

no way. i like the fn arrows.

Function layer, IMO, is one of the only down falls to the keyboard. It wasn't part of Wada's original design, it was another add on by PFU (kinda like the JIS HHKB and the HHKB lite). While I find it usable I would much prefer Fn layer programming.

[ShivaYash]

I definitely can appreciate the layout of the HHKB, and wish that my hands agreed with me that it would be a good thing to learn. Unfortunately the fn layer caused me no end of pain, and I ended up trading mine for the FC660C, which is probably (IMHO) the best keyboard ever manufactured. Not even sure if I'm going to go back to my 55g's after this. I seriously can't stop using it.

I really want to trial this board... the cursor keys are calling to me! I do enjoy the weight of the keys I have in my 'basic' HHKB Pro2 - its the black model so I presume they are heavier than yours? Or am I totally wrong?

[sth]

Too all of you who think the layout is a down side, or a drawback... need to understand that it's what makes the HHKB unique. You are used to the 'standard' layout, so it will take you time to get used to the HHK layout.


Once you do, and your muscle memory adapts, it becomes like second nature. I use the Fn + Arrows without even thinking about it now.

Perhaps, but as someone who works in Word all the time, I think the Standard layout is far better. I switch computers a fair but and being mainstream is better.
But saying all this, I too have been woo'ed by the hype of this HHKB, it is a status symbol and guess what, I wanted one. There is being different and being different.

I also have another theory, once your mechanical cherry has popped, and you are conditioned by the first click, this first click remains your favourite switch. I am a Cherry MX Browns sort of guy... the sexy Topre is nice and exclusive but I'd like to be the masses for proper work. The try out HHKB stays at home and when I need to do serious work, it is pushed to one side.

eh. i doubt your 'first switch' theory. i started on blues and now i like them about as much as any other cherry MX... which is to say very very little. but w/e, to each their own. also -- word is veeeeeeeery microsoft-y, which is veeeeeeeery NOT unix-y. so a unix layout might not suit you until you adapt to it anyway.
the best way to get good with the HHKB is to NOT push it aside for 'serious work' but instead rely on it.

The thing that would make the HHKB perfect is if they cut off the size of some of the space bar and inserted dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard. The non dedicated arrow keys are really its biggest flaw.

no way. i like the fn arrows.

Function layer, IMO, is one of the only down falls to the keyboard. It wasn't part of Wada's original design, it was another add on by PFU (kinda like the JIS HHKB and the HHKB lite). While I find it usable I would much prefer Fn layer programming.

agreed, programmability would be the best but as-is it's really not that bad.

[ValerieV]

Don't get me wrong the HHKB is my favorite keyboard. The sound and the build quality is, in my opinion, better than the Leopold. I just would have liked some minor changes. Now, if only they made a HHKB that was Bluetooth and dedicated arrow keys. WHOA!!!!   

[daerid]

I really want to trial this board... the cursor keys are calling to me! I do enjoy the weight of the keys I have in my 'basic' HHKB Pro2 - its the black model so I presume they are heavier than yours? Or am I totally wrong?

If you have a HHKB Pro 2 (not the Lite version), then you have the exact same switches that are in the FC660C. The feel will be slightly different due to the 660C's back plate, but it's barely noticeable.

[fateswarm]

His point is good about changing environments. It's not that great not being used to common querty keyboards if you go to random places without carrying your own keyboard. I suspect, as in most keyboards, this is 90% about the switch technology. Since Topre keyboards that are purchasable today for a PC are basically ..3 (three makers only, it's ridiculous even saying it) picking up one and justifying its other features is understandable. I'm not surprised others have exact strong opinions about Leopold and Topre's version. Topre technology in general is fiercely isolated in an unhealthy manner. Literally a handful of models one can pick from when people report they are good. The need either mass production, a more open patent or to clone their patent (legally). The manufacturing difficulty can not reflect that enormous price even if it's increased.

His point about 'first used' switches is wrong. You have to learn to shed nostalgia when it's a benefit because it's unhealthy to stick onto things for the sake of it and not because of quality. I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.

..Even if I did notice lubing scratchy Browns with high viscosity greases turns them into 'cheap Topre'.

[ShivaYash]

I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.

I rest my case... hype hype and more hype.
The Man Men will be happy.

[fateswarm]

I have never used a Topre in my life but I'm convinced they are good enough to like them better than this MX Brown.

I rest my case... hype hype and more hype.
The Man Men will be happy.

That was also a point against your hype accusations. I take the advice of people that own 20 or more keyboards, that have spent a mountain of money on MX switches and almost always, in literally more than 95% of opinions, they pick the Topre (more than half of them even for gaming).

You can not accuse them of being biased to the price or novelty because if that was their goal, they would be fools to accept the fact the mountain of money they spent on MX went to waste.

In fact, I do have hype under consideration and always dismiss opinions of people that ONLY have a HHKB and nothing else.

(Because there are a ton of people that went from rubber to HHKB and have never used extensively anything else.)

[ShivaYash]

I'm so pleased this thread as allowed us to debate the pros and cons of this wonderful little board, this message is being typed on the said board.

The internet is a great place but one must be careful of reading too much into the opinions of others. I am shocked, on a weekly basis, how many people express a strong judgement about a particular item, for example, keyboards of the expensive variety. When probed a little, it turns out they don't even own them!

I think ownership, or at the very least, actual physical use of a tangible item like a keyboard is essential before expressing such a strong opinion. For this reason, I take opinions I read online, with a pinch of salt.
Whilst this is what I do, I am not saying all should follow me.

Having had the pleasure of owning this keyboard for little over a week now, I can firmly say, it is a great board but has some major flaws, as have been identified above, for my particular usage. As I picked it up incredibly cheaply, £120, barely used, I will keep it and use it, as and when I want. If it had not been so inexpensive, I would have not been able to trial this board. I realise the price point prevents many from ownership.

The FILCO CHERRY BROWNS remain my number one choice, at for home use, I like the TK board... its a beast for most desks but I have the space, just, to accommodate it.

The HHKB is a status symbol and membership of an elite club. Cherrys are for the masses and I love the new prices points of the Chinese boards coming to market.
Having already reached my limit of three keyboards, I will now have to operate a 'one in, one out' policy.

Thanks for letting me speak my mind, I really enjoy being a part of this online group of like minded people.

Much love,
ShivaYash