full LED boards. I don't get it. I want to be able to see my screen clearly not have the Vegas strip blasting my eyeballs.
RGBY sets
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
It used to scroll in word programs without having to use the arrows or mouse. Today all it really does is make the LED next to caps lock light up.
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
It used to scroll in word programs without having to use the arrows or mouse. Today all it really does is make the LED next to caps lock light up.
How long ago are we talking? I'm 21 and I've never used it, so you must be one of the ancients from the dark ages of computing (pre-GUI).
How is this different from the "things you hate" thread?
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
full LED boards. I don't get it. I want to be able to see my screen clearly not have the Vegas strip blasting my eyeballs.
Novelty keycaps.
I mean I can sort of understand having ONE tasteful novelty keycap for Esc, but unicorn vomit boards and people who spend ungodly amounts of money for a single keycap just confuse me.
Cherry Doubleshots ;)
Cherry Doubleshots ;)
Then get GMK doubleshots
Problem solved !
Cherry Doubleshots ;)
Cherry Doubleshots ;)
PBT. It's not as great as everyone makes it out to be. Cherry doubleshots are the best the best the best the best
CPTBadAss is a hipster. He only likes Alps. Everything else is too mainstream, even CCs. Oh, and he does like wood. Just not under his wrists.
What don't I get? Keyboard hipsters.
Cherry Doubleshots ;)
PBT. It's not as great as everyone makes it out to be. Cherry doubleshots are the best the best the best the best
Scroll lock is the worst key known to man. After Insert.
How have you guys never used scroll lock? 0.o
The_Ed the only caps you can 'dent' with a wire puller IME are Cherry ABS caps.
Complaints about 'sharp' spacebars. I mean really? Are your fingers made of tissue paper?
Filco ping:Once I heard it, I found that every plate equipped Cherry keyboard I tried has done it. The only difference is that the Filco was a little more noticeable, but like you said, it's a bit OCD.
I mean, I have it on all my Filco's. I just do not really get how this can really annoy anyone. I think it is pretty OCD to get so concerned with it, even though I respect people's opinions and if it really bothers them, they should stay away.
I don't get mx redsRGBY sets
I used to loathe MX Reds. I openly mocked my friend for even buying such a worthless switch on his CM Storm keyboard. I felt that my Blues were the only way to truly experience mechanical goodness.
Then I found myself frustrated with my typing speed, as I couldn't get over 70 for some reason. My friend went out of town and left his keyboard at my place for the weekend, and I decided to try it out. My typing speed went up to 95 after a day or two. I was totally shocked. I felt like I could finally type as fast as I knew that I should be able to. I loved everything about the reds: the sound, the feel, and the low actuation point. My fingers glide over the keys. They are now my favorite switches for typing, and I like them for gaming too.
Now I have to face him. I just ordered a Poker II in reds.
How have you guys never used scroll lock? 0.o
The_Ed the only caps you can 'dent' with a wire puller IME are Cherry ABS caps.
Not bottoming out on MX Browns or Reds (sometimes even blues).
I think bottoming out eventually happens with any switch, but I always wonder "Do you have feather fingers?"
The ridiculous price of Realforce and HHKB Pro 2...
...and why we even got into this addiction in the first place.
Not bottoming out on MX Browns or Reds (sometimes even blues).
I think bottoming out eventually happens with any switch, but I always wonder "Do you have feather fingers?"
The ridiculous price of Realforce and HHKB Pro 2...
...and why we even got into this addiction in the first place.
Compared to a k-custom, they aren't bad
I'd never get a KMAC :o or a QFR or any tenkeyless board :-X
I'd never get a KMAC :o or a QFR or any tenkeyless board :-X
Try lugging around a full keyboard in your backpack around campus...
Wireless keyboards.I could 'get' it if the user has a laptop that does not have many USB ports. But proper laptops should have docking stations for the desktop and Bluetooth for use elsewhere.
Non-touch typists: [...]There are those who develop their own fast typing style and then there are those who use only two fingers or have to look at the keyboard to type.
The chiclet hype on current laptops, not only from Apple.THIS!
Blank keycaps for the whole keyboard layout! I get the subjectivity of aesthetic appeal, but I personally actually like legends on keycaps, and even as a fairly good touch typist, I still have to check some keys periodically, like }, Insert, Print Screen, and other infrequently used keys. And I feel like if anyone else has to use my keyboard, they'll get lost without legends.
When you program for a living, you pretty much get familiar with every symbol on a modern keyboard fairly rapidly. At that point legends become a complete non-issue, and can sometimes even be a crutch.
And you still have trouble with }?
I don't 'get' all you "Cherry or die" people in regards to legends especially. Yes the caps themselves feel a little bit better(different might be a better word) but to hold the legends in such high regard? I'll never 'get' it.
Same here, I love cherry caps, but I don't really get the whole legend business. They look nice, don't get me wrong, but don't really care all that much about legends
And you still have trouble with }?
Yes, I do sometimes. Especially if not typing continuously but taking my hands off my keyboard frequently to check notes, white something down, etc. Regardless, the point seems to be aesthetics, and as I mentioned, I don't get that either. I find having legends more appealing.
When you program for a living, you pretty much get familiar with every symbol on a modern keyboard fairly rapidly. At that point legends become a complete non-issue, and can sometimes even be a crutch.
Backlights behind WASD
Backlights behind WASD
during your intense gaming sessions at night, when you get angry enough to start throwing things that require both hands, it lets you return to raging faster.
Blank keycaps for the whole keyboard layout! I get the subjectivity of aesthetic appeal, but I personally actually like legends on keycaps, and even as a fairly good touch typist, I still have to check some keys periodically, like }, Insert, Print Screen, and other infrequently used keys. And I feel like if anyone else has to use my keyboard, they'll get lost without legends.
Well it doesn't apply to everyone but my tablet makes my life about 1000x easier. With regards to flying I can file flight plans, get real time weather information along my route of flight, contact the company directly with maintenance issues, attach it to the yoke and I can have a secondary GPS screen with real time tracking and terrain avoidance, look up frequencies and fuel prices at almost any FBO in the country, get airport diagrams with runway/taxiway locations, and it replaces a suitcase full of sectional maps for everywhere in the world.
Wouldn't want to go back to the old way of doing things. I realize I'm a small percentage of tablet users though.
But you can do all this with your phone, which is 6x smaller and can also make actual phone calls.And has a small screen. Larger screens with high resolution can be quite nice.
Well it doesn't apply to everyone but my tablet makes my life about 1000x easier. With regards to flying I can file flight plans, get real time weather information along my route of flight, contact the company directly with maintenance issues, attach it to the yoke and I can have a secondary GPS screen with real time tracking and terrain avoidance, look up frequencies and fuel prices at almost any FBO in the country, get airport diagrams with runway/taxiway locations, and it replaces a suitcase full of sectional maps for everywhere in the world.
Wouldn't want to go back to the old way of doing things. I realize I'm a small percentage of tablet users though.
But you can do all this with your phone, which is 6x smaller and can also make actual phone calls.
you make me not want to fly anymore with that last post hahaWell it doesn't apply to everyone but my tablet makes my life about 1000x easier. With regards to flying I can file flight plans, get real time weather information along my route of flight, contact the company directly with maintenance issues, attach it to the yoke and I can have a secondary GPS screen with real time tracking and terrain avoidance, look up frequencies and fuel prices at almost any FBO in the country, get airport diagrams with runway/taxiway locations, and it replaces a suitcase full of sectional maps for everywhere in the world.
Wouldn't want to go back to the old way of doing things. I realize I'm a small percentage of tablet users though.
But you can do all this with your phone, which is 6x smaller and can also make actual phone calls.
You could do it on your phone technically, but when you are flying an approach into a busy airport, in nasty weather getting bounced around, on nothing but instruments without being able to see the runway outside until the last 15 to 30 seconds and you need to glance down to pull some info off an approach plate...on top of everything else you have going on between you and the other pilot do you really want this to be the size of a phone?Show Image(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Mdwild31c.JPG/450px-Mdwild31c.JPG)
I sure as hell don't
you make me not want to fly anymore with that last post haha
hah oh I don't mean fly as in be a pilot I mean fly as a passenger. Although it seems like it would be an amazing career and I applaud you for it.you make me not want to fly anymore with that last post haha
I don't want to take this off topic anymore but I'll just say keep at it. Breaking out at minimums and picking up the runway lights is a pretty rewarding feeling, and worth all the stress and effort.
hah oh I don't mean fly as in be a pilot I mean fly as a passenger. Although it seems like it would be an amazing career and I applaud you for it.you make me not want to fly anymore with that last post haha
I don't want to take this off topic anymore but I'll just say keep at it. Breaking out at minimums and picking up the runway lights is a pretty rewarding feeling, and worth all the stress and effort.
Statistically, flying is the safest way to travel. Just sayin'Yeah I know. I actually love flying. And I really enjoy turbulence. It's exciting. Well lets get this back on track shall we?
Bad fonts on keycaps and not minding that. Makes me rather type with keycaps off.
ergodox
I couldn't agree more about the tablets. Do you really need to bridge that tiny gap between your smartphone and your notebook PC? It seems like a useless and unneeded technology just trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of naive techheads who always need to have every gadget.
I couldn't agree more about the tablets. Do you really need to bridge that tiny gap between your smartphone and your notebook PC? It seems like a useless and unneeded technology just trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of naive techheads who always need to have every gadget.
I felt the same way. Then I stayed at my brother's house for about a week, and fell in love with his tablet. It is true that if you already have a laptop, desktop, smartphone then having a tablet may be a little bit excessive, and this is the reason I have not bought one. However, the combination of the touch screen controls and the shape/size/formfactor make it a very nice gadget to have around the house.
Laptops are great if you are sitting, but a tablet comes into it's own if you are standing or moving around. Teachers, doctors, nurses, network admins... They work great for those sorts of situations.
But as a laptop replacement, I'm not convinced and probably never will be.
I dont' get all you "flat boarders".
Well it doesn't apply to everyone but my tablet makes my life about 1000x easier. With regards to flying I can file flight plans, get real time weather information along my route of flight, contact the company directly with maintenance issues, attach it to the yoke and I can have a secondary GPS screen with real time tracking and terrain avoidance, look up frequencies and fuel prices at almost any FBO in the country, get airport diagrams with runway/taxiway locations, and it replaces a suitcase full of sectional maps for everywhere in the world.
Wouldn't want to go back to the old way of doing things. I realize I'm a small percentage of tablet users though.
Laptops are great if you are sitting, but a tablet comes into it's own if you are standing or moving around. Teachers, doctors, nurses, network admins... They work great for those sorts of situations.
But as a laptop replacement, I'm not convinced and probably never will be.
I am still waiting for a x86 windows tablet that is actually good, comes with a dock/stand and allows you to hook up any keyboard of choice. Once that is there, is would function well enough for me as a basic laptop.
I would probably buy that instantly. The MS Surface RT was such a let down.
The ridiculous price of Realforce and HHKB Pro 2...
...and why we even got into this addiction in the first place.
Compared to a k-custom, they aren't bad
No, compared to HHKB they're insulting. Original HHKB - the original was $60. The HHKB Sun - same thing but for Sun systems - was $175 IIRC. (Might've been $225 and Mac at $175.) And this was somewhat reasonable - they had to bribe the cult of Sun and Apple for the protocols and pay the license fees.
But now? Now they want $260 for the basic model. A $200 markup despite being essentially the same damn thing.
People who have owned the original (e.g. ME) are just stunned at people who keep defending these insane prices when they haven't actually changed anything other than the color.
Laptops are great if you are sitting, but a tablet comes into it's own if you are standing or moving around. Teachers, doctors, nurses, network admins... They work great for those sorts of situations.
But as a laptop replacement, I'm not convinced and probably never will be.
I am still waiting for a x86 windows tablet that is actually good, comes with a dock/stand and allows you to hook up any keyboard of choice. Once that is there, is would function well enough for me as a basic laptop.
I would probably buy that instantly. The MS Surface RT was such a let down.
Surface Pro ain't half bad
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
It used to scroll in word programs without having to use the arrows or mouse. Today all it really does is make the LED next to caps lock light up.
How long ago are we talking? I'm 21 and I've never used it, so you must be one of the ancients from the dark ages of computing (pre-GUI).
Surface Pro ain't half bad
everyone is entitled to there own opinions so please do not take this the wrong way.
I have a surface pro for work and I hate mine..
It is 3x as thick and 3x as heavy as any competitor's android/ios tablets.
oh and it is not worth the amount msft is charging for it.
This is getting slightly OT from the original posts (sorry), but if the Surface Pro didn't get so hot and had better battery life, I'd be all over it as a Photoshop etc. machine.
Decent tablet form factor + wacom digitizer is a market that doesn't have a good device (yet!).
I don't get the love for WinKeyLess. I mean it looks awesome but it's not practical for me. I like the Windows key. It's pretty useful for what I do.
Windows 8 is practically unusable without the Windows key for any keyboard user.
If you're on windows ctrl+esc works.
I don't even use windows, but like the key as a bind key. I have most of my window manager binds based on it.
and swap those left ctrl and caps kids. caps doesn't deserve that real estate.
I don't get the love for WinKeyLess. I mean it looks awesome but it's not practical for me. I like the Windows key. It's pretty useful for what I do.I like winkeyless boards for the look (just is an nice little detail that gives it a special touch), but I use Win+E pretty much all the time.
The_Ed the only caps you can 'dent' with a wire puller IME are Cherry ABS caps.I did it to PBTs on an Alps board.
Windows 8 is practically unusableAgreed, Windows 8 is practically unusable.without the Windows key for any keyboard user.
Windows 8 is practically unusableAgreed, Windows 8 is practically unusable.without the Windows key for any keyboard user.
What I don't get is the lack of a cheap ergonomic keyboards. They sell full boards (non-mech, but still) at a profit for less than five bucks. How much more could it cost to use different molds for a single run?
Doubly so with the mech boards, honestly. How about instead of a detachable mini macro disco ball addon, you do an ergo stagger or split the board?
Molds are very expensive. Paying someone to design a board is very expensive. Marketing something is very expensive. These things are costs. There are also overhead costs not directly related to the board. A standard keyboard selling for five bucks has the volume to make these costs negligible. There's a good chance an ergo board doesn't. That said, I still wouldn't doubt the profit margin is huge.More or less my point, yeah. Design I could see being a bit of a pain, but molds are a more or less consistent opperational cost. Marketing though? The marketing would more or less be that it's USB and HID compliant while costing less than ten bucks. ;-)
Why PBT caps are so expensive.
I don't get the love for WinKeyLess. I mean it looks awesome but it's not practical for me. I like the Windows key. It's pretty useful for what I do.
They aren't. €60 Cherry G80 has them, so does unicomp priced at $100. Hell, $80 choc mini has thick ones.I'm talking about aftermarket caps (different color schemes). All of the sets I have seen are $75-$80 or more. Just for a set of caps. If that's not expensive then we're just in different income brackets. I'm just poor :/
I don't get the love for WinKeyLess. I mean it looks awesome but it's not practical for me. I like the Windows key. It's pretty useful for what I do.
Agreed
All the molds required for a keyboard (case, caps, etc) might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. These things have a lot of different cap sizes, often no two letters quite the same. The letters alone would be 130,000 at 5 grand a mold (with design, manufacturer, testing, and modification that's probably extremely low). The membrane is probably pretty expensive too. The design and testing are probably far more with the salaries of the people involved. Then marketing costs (there's box art, possible online adverts, a page on the website). Then you have generic overhead (salaries of everyone the buisness has to hire) and profit. Even if the material+manufacture cost was a dollar per board, you have to divide all the costs between a relatively small number compared to a standard.Molds are very expensive. Paying someone to design a board is very expensive. Marketing something is very expensive. These things are costs. There are also overhead costs not directly related to the board. A standard keyboard selling for five bucks has the volume to make these costs negligible. There's a good chance an ergo board doesn't. That said, I still wouldn't doubt the profit margin is huge.More or less my point, yeah. Design I could see being a bit of a pain, but molds are a more or less consistent opperational cost. Marketing though? The marketing would more or less be that it's USB and HID compliant while costing less than ten bucks. ;-)
Ergo for the masses! :-D
I don't get why anyone is still using staggered layout when straight column layout is available
They aren't. €60 Cherry G80 has them, so does unicomp priced at $100. Hell, $80 choc mini has thick ones.I'm talking about aftermarket caps (different color schemes). All of the sets I have seen are $75-$80 or more. Just for a set of caps. If that's not expensive then we're just in different income brackets. I'm just poor :/
Topre. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with Topre, I actually like the feel of Topre just fine. But I've never seen the appeal to the extent that some people put the Topre on a pedestal and forsake all other switches. It just smacks of circlejerk.
I like thick pbt, some people prefer thick abs. Some strange people even prefer think keycaps :eek:
It's all about personal preference. pbt is a little "harder and rougher" while abs is more smooth. I prefer the roughness of pbt, some prefer the smoothness of abs.
But I have yet to try thick abs. Still, the point is that it's a personal preference. But will all preference, you will also see that there are some characteristics that are more popular. For example, I have not seen many people saying that they didn't like the cherry profile and most people seems to prefer thick keycaps to thin keycaps, but that's not everyone.
In the end, you need to try them to know which one you prefer.
The you add your choice of switch, spring, lube, o-ring, layout, plate-mount or pcb-mount and you realise that there's a lot of many combinations to try!
I don't get "gamer" fonts. Just because someone plays video games and likes flashy stuff doesn't mean they want ugly font. In fact almost every gamer feature besides backlighting (can it really be called a gaming feature?) is stupid.
In short I will never get
- gamer fonts
- gamer macro keys
- gamer screens like on that one logitech board
I don't get "gamer" fonts. Just because someone plays video games and likes flashy stuff doesn't mean they want ugly font. In fact almost every gamer feature besides backlighting (can it really be called a gaming feature?) is stupid.
In short I will never get
- gamer fonts
- gamer macro keys
- gamer screens like on that one logitech board
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
...So why am I "filthy"?
Keyboards such as custom anodized aluminum kmac which are like $400, I could buy a $250 plastic topre.FTFY
Overpriced novelty keycaps such as CCsWhat is an enthusiast?
Keyboards such as kmac which are like $400, I could buy a better $250 topre.
Overpriced novelty keycaps such as CCsWhat is an enthusiast?
Keyboards such as kmac which are like $400, I could buy a better $250 topre.
Yeah I know people like that just bug me. Especially when you are posting on a board for kbd enthusiasts, why make posts like that?Overpriced novelty keycaps such as CCsWhat is an enthusiast?
Keyboards such as kmac which are like $400, I could buy a better $250 topre.
I'd rather put it this way:
Keyboards such as topre which are like $250 when I can buy an $80 Cherry MX board.
What's up now! Same logic.
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
...So why am I "filthy"?
You disrespect The Great One!
Pull off it's caps, throw it away... filthy.
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
...So why am I "filthy"?
You disrespect The Great One!
Pull off it's caps, throw it away... filthy.
And just who is "The Great One"? Is it a *magical* pony (in your head) that tells you to love horrible switches (or else)? For being "Master of all Ponies", and yet being bossed around by another brony (that's in your head) is just... Sad...
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
...So why am I "filthy"?
You disrespect The Great One!
Pull off it's caps, throw it away... filthy.
And just who is "The Great One"? Is it a *magical* pony (in your head) that tells you to love horrible switches (or else)? For being "Master of all Ponies", and yet being bossed around by another brony (that's in your head) is just... Sad...
I'm sorry for being mean.
The awful secret behind those MY switches they are actually compressed cocaine and repeated rage fist typing exposes the user, thus leading to these run-ins.
Probably Korean customs that cost over $300 and Topres.Why does that irk you?
It doesn't irk me..I can just afford $50 keyboards.
That really got out of hand. Brick killed a guy!
Probably Korean customs that cost over $300 and Topres.Why does that irk you?
That really got out of hand. Brick killed a guy!
So you're saying you'll buy all the NIB POS MY boards I just throw away after harvesting the caps?
Not after they have been disgraced by one as filthy as you...
...So why am I "filthy"?
You disrespect The Great One!
Pull off it's caps, throw it away... filthy.
And just who is "The Great One"? Is it a *magical* pony (in your head) that tells you to love horrible switches (or else)? For being "Master of all Ponies", and yet being bossed around by another brony (that's in your head) is just... Sad...
I'm sorry for being mean.
Well, that escalated quickly.
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...
It's a joke...
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...People saw that moose was trolling around about MY and started to ****ride him.
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...People saw that moose was trolling around about MY and started to ****ride him.
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...People saw that moose was trolling around about MY and started to ****ride him.
I have one that was NIB that I modded (took all the helical springs out) and no-one has bought it in 2 years... I don't understand why a bunch of you people are spouting all this praise for a switch THAT NO-ONE WILL BUY...People saw that moose was trolling around about MY and started to ****ride him.
I believe it's called "clopping" or "hind hoof", or was it some other word...
People wittering on about how tenkeyless is ergonomically *sooooo* much better than a full keyboard when they are still using a staggered layout with QWERTY.
Also, backlit boards and novelty keycaps.
The cost of Topre keyboards.
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Can't get that ergodox hype. Hope it's over soon.
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
Right ok...
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
Right ok...
I know, it's a bit weird that I love mechanical keyboards yet don't even know how to type properly. :p
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
Right ok...
I know, it's a bit weird that I love mechanical keyboards yet don't even know how to type properly. :p
It's shameful for a GH member to not be at least 125wpm. LOL... that's the cutoff in most typing tutors I think.Show Image(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)
I don't find that strange, I find it strange that you have completely dismissed a great keyboard with no experience of it.
The cost of Topre keyboards.
Well you know, variable force topre costs what? 130 bucks, that's less than a filco
Variable force, ew.
$130? Still more expensive than any other mechanical I've ever bought...
Who knows, maybe someday I'll break down and buy a Topre, but I don't see that happening any time soon...
Have you used variable force Topre?
I don't have to. I am fairly certain it's a feature that I would absolutely hate because I am not a home-row typist (more of a two-finger typist).
So the lighter keys that are designed to be pinky-activated would be too soft for my pointer/middle fingers...
Right ok...
I know, it's a bit weird that I love mechanical keyboards yet don't even know how to type properly. :p
It's shameful for a GH member to not be at least 125wpm. LOL... that's the cutoff in most typing tutors I think.Show Image(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)
I am ashamed... :-[
I don't find that strange, I find it strange that you have completely dismissed a great keyboard with no experience of it.
which keyboard have I dismissed that wasn't staggered qwerty.
I don't find that strange, I find it strange that you have completely dismissed a great keyboard with no experience of it.
which keyboard have I dismissed that wasn't staggered qwerty.
I wasn't talking to you.
Can't get that ergodox hype. Hope it's over soon.
Any of these korean customs make no sense to me. They don't offer anything, are ridiculously expensive. That goes for Korean springs as well. Who cares if it comes from Korea, custom compression springs could be easily made for MX switches in the USA.
Can't get that ergodox hype. Hope it's over soon.
This so much, I have no idea why it is so popular.
OT: Probably the ErgoDox. It really doesn't seem good at all to me, and tp4tissue has done a good job turning everyone off from it.
Typing has always been about speed, with feel important insofar as it limits my typing less.
OT: Probably the ErgoDox. It really doesn't seem good at all to me, and tp4tissue has done a good job turning everyone off from it.
Everyone? I recommend to read some introductory logic textbook.Typing has always been about speed, with feel important insofar as it limits my typing less.
Nah. Those, who actually care about speed, use stenography/stenotype.
children pls
Can't get that ergodox hype. Hope it's over soon.
It's not a hype. the board really is better... it fixes 9/10 of the things enthusiast find horrid on staggered qwerty..
Yeah, ErgoDox and Stickers might be the big ones for me.But stickers are cool...
Novelty keycaps.
I mean I can sort of understand having ONE tasteful novelty keycap for Esc, but unicorn vomit boards and people who spend ungodly amounts of money for a single keycap just confuse me.
^^^^
Oh gods yes this. I can understand wanting different color schemes and such, sure. I mean, I may yet load up my Ducky DK9008G2 with my white/grays from t because I like the white/gray scheme. But they're also, you know, keycaps. They have letters and symbols printed on them in a readable font. And it'd probably look quite nice.
But what the hell is the point of a CC? You're not going to use it on a keyboard, if you do it's going to be insanely uncomfortable for regular use, and so on. And crazy unreadable fonts like Deck's or some of the sets I've seen.. I mean really! What is the point? You just spent $150 to make your keyboard unreadable when you could have just gotten blank caps and achieved the same effect!
Ergodox. Sorry, tp. :llama:
Wait... are browns not tactile?
Wait... are browns not tactile?
youtube videos where 50% of the time is eaten up by the typist getting themselves ready
MX Blues. To me they sound like a cheap attempt at the BS boards. I rather have no click than a cheap plastic racket.
MX Blues. To me they sound like a cheap attempt at the BS boards. I rather have no click than a cheap plastic racket.
It is a good thing we live many miles away.
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.Coming from the guy with a blackwidow and RAT7
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.Coming from the guy with a blackwidow and RAT7
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.Coming from the guy with a blackwidow and RAT7
And?
I think the Blackwidow TE looks just fine, even better after I replaced the keycaps with blank keycaps. And to me the RAT 7 is the most comfortable mouse out there. So again.. your point?
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.
7. old keyboards, IMB M's, etc. I get the retro thing, and have used them before, but its not for me I guess
The cost of Topre keyboards.
2. keyboard typing test videos
2. keyboard typing test videos
Kinda helped me in deciding what switch to use. Once I heard all the good blues videos, I knew I couldn't stand it. It made difference when I tried out a mx blue board, too. Helped me choose the HHKB Pro 2 as well and this board is my main board (pretty much the only board I will ever use...I don't even use my Model M much, but enjoy having it as part of my collection). Some people might not find them useful, but when I first started out...they really helped.
People wittering on about how tenkeyless is ergonomically *sooooo* much better than a full keyboard when they are still using a staggered layout with QWERTY.
Also, backlit boards and novelty keycaps.
People wittering on about how tenkeyless is ergonomically *sooooo* much better than a full keyboard when they are still using a staggered layout with QWERTY.
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.Coming from the guy with a blackwidow and RAT7
And?
I think the Blackwidow TE looks just fine, even better after I replaced the keycaps with blank keycaps. And to me the RAT 7 is the most comfortable mouse out there. So again.. your point?
I believe he thinks your stuff looks silly...
That people who
a. Have the money for ergo boards
and
b. Don't work jobs that forbid outside keyboards (e.g. military contractors)
use standard keyboards.
Sorry, but after the first week with my edox I'd never be willing to go back and don't understand how anyone could.
Ergodox. Keyboards full of clacks. The rainbow vomit thing. I just think it looks stupid. Half printed, half blank. Those Iron Man caps for like $30 which I think look silly.Coming from the guy with a blackwidow and RAT7
And?
I think the Blackwidow TE looks just fine, even better after I replaced the keycaps with blank keycaps. And to me the RAT 7 is the most comfortable mouse out there. So again.. your point?
I believe he thinks your stuff looks silly...
I'm kinda with him though. The tournament edition looks pretty good. It'd look about three times better if it wasn't shiny, but it still looks pretty good. And I have heard that with all the customizability, the RATs are pretty comfy.
Not having directional keys on a mini board, considering how frequently used they are. The centimeter or so space possibly saved doesn't make sense to me when it is at the loss of often a lot of functionality (as I stare at the HHKB).
Companies that still use the same uninteresting font as thirty years ago; I like the aesthetic, even if just slightly different like that of the Leopold FC series, compared to cheap membrane keys. A little variety in the fonts that, granted, aren't seen much with touch typing, but are still important to the look.
Keyboards with massive extensions past the ends, like the CM Mech.
And I would say the severity of ergodox elitism. It's acceptable to a point, but the rabidity displayed is disconcerting and irritating.
People wittering on about how tenkeyless is ergonomically *sooooo* much better than a full keyboard when they are still using a staggered layout with QWERTY.
Well, just because it isn't the most optimal configuration does not mean that it isn't more ergonomic than a standard keyboard.
Not having directional keys on a mini board, considering how frequently used they are. The centimeter or so space possibly saved doesn't make sense to me when it is at the loss of often a lot of functionality (as I stare at the HHKB).
Companies that still use the same uninteresting font as thirty years ago; I like the aesthetic, even if just slightly different like that of the Leopold FC series, compared to cheap membrane keys. A little variety in the fonts that, granted, aren't seen much with touch typing, but are still important to the look.
Keyboards with massive extensions past the ends, like the CM Mech.
And I would say the severity of ergodox elitism. It's acceptable to a point, but the rabidity displayed is disconcerting and irritating.
It really isn't that hard to get to the directional keys on a HHKB. Like do you not have pinkies?
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
That and numlock. I see how numlock works, but it just makes 4 buttons work on a numpad and waste the dedicated arrows on my board. Also on my 75% accidentally having it on making typing letters into numbers
There's a guy I work with who, the first thing he does, is turn Num Lock off. I have never seen him use the dedicated arrow keys. He ALWAYS uses those on the num pad.
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
That and numlock. I see how numlock works, but it just makes 4 buttons work on a numpad and waste the dedicated arrows on my board. Also on my 75% accidentally having it on making typing letters into numbers
someone PLEASE show me a video of using the arrow keys on a HHKB; are you supposed to use one finger? cause I use three on a cursor block.
Because the Race 2 is coming "soon" https://www.facebook.com/Vortexgear
The ugly as h*ll windows flag key. And not just that... but two of them. Two keys. Ugly as h*ll. And why did that logo have to be surrounded by a a glossy recessed circle? I guess just to make it as ugly as possible. If at all possible, these should be completely banned. Blank keys are much preferred. Why does MS get to insinuate themselves on just about EVERY keyboard on the planet? Call it "Meta," or call it "Shell" or call it nothing at all.
The ugly as h*ll windows flag key. And not just that... but two of them. Two keys. Ugly as h*ll. And why did that logo have to be surrounded by a a glossy recessed circle? I guess just to make it as ugly as possible. If at all possible, these should be completely banned. Blank keys are much preferred. Why does MS get to insinuate themselves on just about EVERY keyboard on the planet? Call it "Meta," or call it "Shell" or call it nothing at all.
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you've tried it, fair enough.
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you haven't tried it, shut it and try one already.
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you've tried it, fair enough.
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you haven't tried it, shut it and try one already.
Want to make me a ergodox with ergo clears?
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you've tried it, fair enough.
If you don't get the ErgoDox and you haven't tried it, shut it and try one already.
Want to make me a ergodox with ergo clears?
There are a variety of people who have done so, if you're asking if it's possible, or are you asking for assembly services?
The ugly as h*ll windows flag key. And not just that... but two of them. Two keys. Ugly as h*ll. And why did that logo have to be surrounded by a a glossy recessed circle? I guess just to make it as ugly as possible. If at all possible, these should be completely banned. Blank keys are much preferred. Why does MS get to insinuate themselves on just about EVERY keyboard on the planet? Call it "Meta," or call it "Shell" or call it nothing at all.
The ugly as h*ll windows flag key. And not just that... but two of them. Two keys. Ugly as h*ll. And why did that logo have to be surrounded by a a glossy recessed circle? I guess just to make it as ugly as possible. If at all possible, these should be completely banned. Blank keys are much preferred. Why does MS get to insinuate themselves on just about EVERY keyboard on the planet? Call it "Meta," or call it "Shell" or call it nothing at all.
It's called branding. Apple does it even more. There's no "Meta" key because nobody uses Unix/Linux on the desktop. (relative to Windows)
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
^This.
Interesting keycaps, sure, but for the same price I can get an entire set of Miami, a Dolch keyboard, CCNG set, or a custom Poker case. To name just a few things I like better than one custom cap.
Toujours gai, I guess!
I don't get the butthurt around CCs and why everyone tries to impose their opinions of them on each other.
Some people like them, some love them, some hate them, their choice. If you like them and are willing to spend the money, by all means do, it is yours and you can do whatever you want with it. However why do you have to impose your choice on those that don't like them, or can't afford them, the name calling, pushing, snark remarks over whether they can afford them or how many they have is not required.
If you don't like them, still great, why do you have to impose your opinion on that do and appreciate them? Why do you have to make sense out of their high cost, or compare them with could be bought in their exchange, why crap the auction/sale threads. Just ignore them if you don't like them.
This post is not directed at any particular individual, just the general polar ideologies regarding CC and how people get agitated over them.
If you like them and are willing to spend the money, by all means do, it is yours and you can do whatever you want with it. However why do you have to impose your choice on those that don't like them, or can't afford them, the name calling, pushing, snark remarks over whether they can afford them or how many they have is not required.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
^This.
Interesting keycaps, sure, but for the same price I can get an entire set of Miami, a Dolch keyboard, CCNG set, or a custom Poker case. To name just a few things I like better than one custom cap.
Toujours gai, I guess!
this
It's not just that you're new here. It's that you have a logical brain.
Don't confuse imposing opinion with stating opinion.
Don't confuse imposing opinion with stating opinion.
When the time and place is right, they just as well might be
2 cents and all
Don't confuse imposing opinion with stating opinion.
When the time and place is right, they just as well might be
2 cents and all
Imposing opinion is when you throw someone in jail until they agree with you. Or hit them. Or kill them. I think we are safely within the "free speech zone" on geekhack
I can easily explain a logical reason to own Clacks. This is from personal experience.
Clacks aren't just keycaps, they are investments. And I used them as such. When I worked at my last job, I got really into things here at GH and bought myself several rather expensive keycaps (CCs, BroCaps, etc.). I cherished them for several months, but then I became unemployed. So what did I do? I sold them, getting a return on my investment at a time when I desperately needed the money.
Boom. Logical Clacks.
When you program for a living, you pretty much get familiar with every symbol on a modern keyboard fairly rapidly. At that point legends become a complete non-issue, and can sometimes even be a crutch.
Maybe for some people, but not for everyone. I use a lot of symbols both for programming and when using latex. I know where all the symbols are and I do not need legends to find my way around the keyboard..... unless I take my hands of the keyboard and do not have them in the typical homerow position, which happens a lot when working. Also, when I need to use multiple symbols in rapid succession, it is easy to get confused. I find that if I did not program, blanks would have been fine, but for me, because I sometimes make intensive use of symbols, blanks are just a pain in the behind. Sure enough they are fine 90% of the time, but even when it is only inconvenient every once in a while, that is already too much. For me use-ability comes first even though I think blanks can look great.
And you still have trouble with }?
Yes, I do sometimes. Especially if not typing continuously but taking my hands off my keyboard frequently to check notes, white something down, etc. Regardless, the point seems to be aesthetics, and as I mentioned, I don't get that either. I find having legends more appealing.
OT: Probably the ErgoDox. It really doesn't seem good at all to me, and tp4tissue has done a good job turning everyone off from it.
Everyone? I recommend to read some introductory logic textbook.Typing has always been about speed, with feel important insofar as it limits my typing less.
Nah. Those, who actually care about speed, use stenography/stenotype.
@angelic _sedition
Pretty much, I like typing for speed on any keyboard that I use, not some massive piece of bollocks that I have to drag around whenever I want to type quickly.
Anyways, the speed of typing on steno in terms of keystrokes is less, and that just doesn't seem as fun to me. Typing = fine anywhere, steno = immobile efficiency.
I feel as if Grim Fandango is just trolling super hard.
I know, I wasn't accusing you of anything, I was meaning it as more of a response to the quote.
+1 for ergodox
+1 for non-touch typists (as in anyone who look at the keyboard or doesn't use all their fingers)
And I don't get all you QWERTY users! Still stuck in the 19th century. :p
And I don't get all you QWERTY users! Still stuck in the 19th century. :pWhen you program for a living, you pretty much get familiar with every symbol on a modern keyboard fairly rapidly. At that point legends become a complete non-issue, and can sometimes even be a crutch.
Maybe for some people, but not for everyone. I use a lot of symbols both for programming and when using latex. I know where all the symbols are and I do not need legends to find my way around the keyboard..... unless I take my hands of the keyboard and do not have them in the typical homerow position, which happens a lot when working. Also, when I need to use multiple symbols in rapid succession, it is easy to get confused. I find that if I did not program, blanks would have been fine, but for me, because I sometimes make intensive use of symbols, blanks are just a pain in the behind. Sure enough they are fine 90% of the time, but even when it is only inconvenient every once in a while, that is already too much. For me use-ability comes first even though I think blanks can look great.And you still have trouble with }?
Yes, I do sometimes. Especially if not typing continuously but taking my hands off my keyboard frequently to check notes, white something down, etc. Regardless, the point seems to be aesthetics, and as I mentioned, I don't get that either. I find having legends more appealing.
I don't get why people who use hard to reach symbols a lot don't just remap them for use in a more comfortable position (i.e. home row) for use with capslock or something. Takes minutes. Kind of a problem if you're stuck on a work computer that doesn't allow software, but makes things so much easier... I have all the navigation keys put on home row or in easy to reach place too (ex: hjkl on qwerty = left down up right and can put control and shift on left hand for easy text selection).
OT: Probably the ErgoDox. It really doesn't seem good at all to me, and tp4tissue has done a good job turning everyone off from it.
Everyone? I recommend to read some introductory logic textbook.Typing has always been about speed, with feel important insofar as it limits my typing less.
Nah. Those, who actually care about speed, use stenography/stenotype.
.. Do you know anyone who even knows steno? Because I don't. I'll probably get into plover eventually, but most people I've encountered have never even heard of steno.
And I don't get all you QWERTY users! Still stuck in the 19th century. :pWhen you program for a living, you pretty much get familiar with every symbol on a modern keyboard fairly rapidly. At that point legends become a complete non-issue, and can sometimes even be a crutch.
Maybe for some people, but not for everyone. I use a lot of symbols both for programming and when using latex. I know where all the symbols are and I do not need legends to find my way around the keyboard..... unless I take my hands of the keyboard and do not have them in the typical homerow position, which happens a lot when working. Also, when I need to use multiple symbols in rapid succession, it is easy to get confused. I find that if I did not program, blanks would have been fine, but for me, because I sometimes make intensive use of symbols, blanks are just a pain in the behind. Sure enough they are fine 90% of the time, but even when it is only inconvenient every once in a while, that is already too much. For me use-ability comes first even though I think blanks can look great.And you still have trouble with }?
Yes, I do sometimes. Especially if not typing continuously but taking my hands off my keyboard frequently to check notes, white something down, etc. Regardless, the point seems to be aesthetics, and as I mentioned, I don't get that either. I find having legends more appealing.
I don't get why people who use hard to reach symbols a lot don't just remap them for use in a more comfortable position (i.e. home row) for use with capslock or something. Takes minutes. Kind of a problem if you're stuck on a work computer that doesn't allow software, but makes things so much easier... I have all the navigation keys put on home row or in easy to reach place too (ex: hjkl on qwerty = left down up right and can put control and shift on left hand for easy text selection).
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?OT: Probably the ErgoDox. It really doesn't seem good at all to me, and tp4tissue has done a good job turning everyone off from it.
Everyone? I recommend to read some introductory logic textbook.Typing has always been about speed, with feel important insofar as it limits my typing less.
Nah. Those, who actually care about speed, use stenography/stenotype.
.. Do you know anyone who even knows steno? Because I don't. I'll probably get into plover eventually, but most people I've encountered have never even heard of steno.
Surprise–surprise... most people can't even touch type... and don't care.
wat.
+1 for ergodox
+1 for non-touch typists (as in anyone who look at the keyboard or doesn't use all their fingers)
And I don't get all you QWERTY users! Still stuck in the 19th century. :p
I don't get that someone could be opposed to QWERTY and not move to a keyboard like the ergodox or kinesis. If you're using a different layout public computers won't work anyway so the only reasons not to use a fully ergonomic setup are gone.
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?
Small reality check—it definitely is portable. Just because you're ignorant about this doesn't mean you can tell me that what I've been doing almost daily is impossible (this isn't some hypothetical I randomly came up with). :p Besides that I wasn't just talking about the home row (which I use primarily for navigation; I don't cram everything there if that's what you were getting at), and I never mentioned other typographic symbols (total strawman basically). But yeah, I can and do do that too. You want all that on the keyboard? It's easy.
If you don't like dead keys.. well I can't help you. They are very useful. I have custom altgr mappings as well (including the num row). Proper quotes are easy to add. 30 keys is absolutely nothing for an altgr layer with dead keys. Even if you only used 20 (which is a lot less than what you could do) keys for symbols (and no dead keys), that's still 40 symbols with altgr and shift altgr. With just a couple of dead keys you'll get that same amount. Of course they wouldn't all be extremely easy to reach if you used more, but that wasn't even what I was talking about. It's easy enough to move just a few keys (ex: }, |, &, [, %, etc.) to easier reach spots. That's what I meant.
As for portability, I carry this around with me and have used it on many other people's computers (I only have encountered Windows, but I think I could do most of the same stuff on another computer running linux as well). Sure you may encounter problems at some point, but how is portability relevant to what I said either?
I have to agree with Linkbane about your other comment.
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?
Small reality check—it definitely is portable. Just because you're ignorant about this doesn't mean you can tell me that what I've been doing almost daily is impossible (this isn't some hypothetical I randomly came up with). :p Besides that I wasn't just talking about the home row (which I use primarily for navigation; I don't cram everything there if that's what you were getting at), and I never mentioned other typographic symbols (total strawman basically). But yeah, I can and do do that too. You want all that on the keyboard? It's easy.
If you don't like dead keys.. well I can't help you. They are very useful. I have custom altgr mappings as well (including the num row). Proper quotes are easy to add. 30 keys is absolutely nothing for an altgr layer with dead keys. Even if you only used 20 (which is a lot less than what you could do) keys for symbols (and no dead keys), that's still 40 symbols with altgr and shift altgr. With just a couple of dead keys you'll get that same amount. Of course they wouldn't all be extremely easy to reach if you used more, but that wasn't even what I was talking about. It's easy enough to move just a few keys (ex: }, |, &, [, %, etc.) to easier reach spots. That's what I meant.
As for portability, I carry this around with me and have used it on many other people's computers (I only have encountered Windows, but I think I could do most of the same stuff on another computer running linux as well). Sure you may encounter problems at some point, but how is portability relevant to what I said either?
I have to agree with Linkbane about your other comment.
Yeah, I'm ignorant... user of an ergodox with Colemak customized to fit 76 keys. How ironic. I've had to deal with issues mentioned above. The 3rd/4th layer is already occupied by typographic and national-alphabet symbols. Dead keys break typing flow, considering how common diacritic marks are /in Slavonic languages. Even this is a problem on standard layout, because AltGr is only on one side and hard to reach on some keyboards (especially winkeyless). And with another layer, it gets only worse. Dual-mode modifiers would help, but they're PITA to deal with.
However, I have no problem carrying an ergodox/typematrix with me or switching between different physical layouts.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
^This.
Interesting keycaps, sure, but for the same price I can get an entire set of Miami, a Dolch keyboard, CCNG set, or a custom Poker case. To name just a few things I like better than one custom cap.
Toujours gai, I guess!
this
It's not just that you're new here. It's that you have a logical brain.
I can easily explain a logical reason to own Clacks. This is from personal experience.
Clacks aren't just keycaps, they are investments. And I used them as such. When I worked at my last job, I got really into things here at GH and bought myself several rather expensive keycaps (CCs, BroCaps, etc.). I cherished them for several months, but then I became unemployed. So what did I do? I sold them, getting a return on my investment at a time when I desperately needed the money.
Boom. Logical Clacks.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
^This.
Interesting keycaps, sure, but for the same price I can get an entire set of Miami, a Dolch keyboard, CCNG set, or a custom Poker case. To name just a few things I like better than one custom cap.
Toujours gai, I guess!
this
It's not just that you're new here. It's that you have a logical brain.
I can easily explain a logical reason to own Clacks. This is from personal experience.
Clacks aren't just keycaps, they are investments. And I used them as such. When I worked at my last job, I got really into things here at GH and bought myself several rather expensive keycaps (CCs, BroCaps, etc.). I cherished them for several months, but then I became unemployed. So what did I do? I sold them, getting a return on my investment at a time when I desperately needed the money.
Boom. Logical Clacks.
You do realize that CC falls under the dumbest most risky type of investment... if CC was a rated bond, it would have near perfect default risk...
I don't know how old you guys are.. but "investing in clacks"... please do not push this argument.. it's like investing in beanie-babies.Show Image(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/64caf316.gif)
clacks are used by some geekhackers with more money than sense
meta-butthurt detectedclacks are used by some geekhackers with more money than sense
butthurt detected
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?
Small reality check—it definitely is portable. Just because you're ignorant about this doesn't mean you can tell me that what I've been doing almost daily is impossible (this isn't some hypothetical I randomly came up with). :p Besides that I wasn't just talking about the home row (which I use primarily for navigation; I don't cram everything there if that's what you were getting at), and I never mentioned other typographic symbols (total strawman basically). But yeah, I can and do do that too. You want all that on the keyboard? It's easy.
If you don't like dead keys.. well I can't help you. They are very useful. I have custom altgr mappings as well (including the num row). Proper quotes are easy to add. 30 keys is absolutely nothing for an altgr layer with dead keys. Even if you only used 20 (which is a lot less than what you could do) keys for symbols (and no dead keys), that's still 40 symbols with altgr and shift altgr. With just a couple of dead keys you'll get that same amount. Of course they wouldn't all be extremely easy to reach if you used more, but that wasn't even what I was talking about. It's easy enough to move just a few keys (ex: }, |, &, [, %, etc.) to easier reach spots. That's what I meant.
As for portability, I carry this around with me and have used it on many other people's computers (I only have encountered Windows, but I think I could do most of the same stuff on another computer running linux as well). Sure you may encounter problems at some point, but how is portability relevant to what I said either?
I have to agree with Linkbane about your other comment.
Yeah, I'm ignorant... user of an ergodox with Colemak customized to fit 76 keys. How ironic. I've had to deal with issues mentioned above. The 3rd/4th layer is already occupied by typographic and national-alphabet symbols. Dead keys break typing flow, considering how common diacritic marks are /in Slavonic languages. Even this is a problem on standard layout, because AltGr is only on one side and hard to reach on some keyboards (especially winkeyless). And with another layer, it gets only worse. Dual-mode modifiers would help, but they're PITA to deal with.
However, I have no problem carrying an ergodox/typematrix with me or switching between different physical layouts.
I said you were ignorant because you said doing what I suggested isn't portable. It wasn't an insult. I'm not even sure how anything you're saying now relates to anything I said. As for altgr being hard to reach, a wide mod (shifting right hand over one key) can help. You can also just remap altgr (not sure if that is possible portably, but it probably is). I'm not sure exactly what problems you're having with your layout.. it seems that you already have all the symbols you need mapped.. if so, what is the problem? I think you're addressing something that I didn't say.
I don't know what you want or are doing, but my original suggestion works fine for me.
Your entire point was that they are investments, so when you say that you aren't, good job going straight back on what you said.
By the way, you can sell a "useless piece of plastic" at the exact same price that you bought it at. One shaped like a keycap is the exact same. Boom, you're wrong.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
I don't understand the fascination with rainbow colored skulls on a keyboard either. Maybe I would if I was still 12yrs. old and into Megadeth (I might still like Megadeth a little ;))
Your entire point was that they are investments, so when you say that you aren't, good job going straight back on what you said.
By the way, you can sell a "useless piece of plastic" at the exact same price that you bought it at. One shaped like a keycap is the exact same. Boom, you're wrong.
You completely fail
Your entire point was that they are investments, so when you say that you aren't, good job going straight back on what you said.
By the way, you can sell a "useless piece of plastic" at the exact same price that you bought it at. One shaped like a keycap is the exact same. Boom, you're wrong.
You completely fail
Fixed that for you, bro.
To be honest, I am progressively not understanding clickclacks. Yeah they're cool, but for the same cost as the rest of the keyboard? No thanks.
I don't understand the fascination with rainbow colored skulls on a keyboard either. Maybe I would if I was still 12yrs. old and into Megadeth (I might still like Megadeth a little ;))
See. This right here. Why does a person who likes any sort of color have to be 12 years old? Why is the first thing you can think of putting people down?
This is a thread for things we will never 'get'... I think it's a natural part of the discussion to add why it is that a person will never 'get' a particular thing.
Both the thing you do not 'get' and the reason for it are both completely subjective. As long as the post doesn't try to convince others of the same; I see no problem with it IMO.
The funny part is that the same discussion happened about three pages ago.
But why do we always have to "get" things?
^This guy, he gets it... ;D
Your entire point was that they are investments, so when you say that you aren't, good job going straight back on what you said.
By the way, you can sell a "useless piece of plastic" at the exact same price that you bought it at. One shaped like a keycap is the exact same. Boom, you're wrong.
A poor investment is still an investment. Or have they changed the definition of investment entirely?
You completely failed to see my comparison, which indicates you can't even comprehend simple analogies. Did they not teach you about them in 3rd grade?
You're stubbornness is not going to make you many friends here. There are many other people with similar viewpoints to mine, and the only reason why you haven't heard them complaining is because it's not worth the time, you will never change your mind...
Might I add that you would make a great politician. They're heads are so far up there asses they can't even balance the budget...
you act like an exceeding asshat to everyone who disagrees with you
That isn't portable anyway—small reality check...
I type in Czech a lot. We have 14 extra letters (latin letters with diacritic marks, actually... but it's not like it makes a huge difference, dead keys are kinda annoying). You know, size matters (http://youtu.be/f488uJAQgmw). Add proper quotes and other typographic symbols. Alright, let's add ANSI symbols used in system administration and software development, that's about 14 symbols. Now, what about embedded navigation cluster? Another 10 keys. How do you cram all of this on ~30 keys avoiding stuff like Emacs pinkies?
Small reality check—it definitely is portable. Just because you're ignorant about this doesn't mean you can tell me that what I've been doing almost daily is impossible (this isn't some hypothetical I randomly came up with). :p Besides that I wasn't just talking about the home row (which I use primarily for navigation; I don't cram everything there if that's what you were getting at), and I never mentioned other typographic symbols (total strawman basically). But yeah, I can and do do that too. You want all that on the keyboard? It's easy.
If you don't like dead keys.. well I can't help you. They are very useful. I have custom altgr mappings as well (including the num row). Proper quotes are easy to add. 30 keys is absolutely nothing for an altgr layer with dead keys. Even if you only used 20 (which is a lot less than what you could do) keys for symbols (and no dead keys), that's still 40 symbols with altgr and shift altgr. With just a couple of dead keys you'll get that same amount. Of course they wouldn't all be extremely easy to reach if you used more, but that wasn't even what I was talking about. It's easy enough to move just a few keys (ex: }, |, &, [, %, etc.) to easier reach spots. That's what I meant.
As for portability, I carry this around with me and have used it on many other people's computers (I only have encountered Windows, but I think I could do most of the same stuff on another computer running linux as well). Sure you may encounter problems at some point, but how is portability relevant to what I said either?
I have to agree with Linkbane about your other comment.
Yeah, I'm ignorant... user of an ergodox with Colemak customized to fit 76 keys. How ironic. I've had to deal with issues mentioned above. The 3rd/4th layer is already occupied by typographic and national-alphabet symbols. Dead keys break typing flow, considering how common diacritic marks are /in Slavonic languages. Even this is a problem on standard layout, because AltGr is only on one side and hard to reach on some keyboards (especially winkeyless). And with another layer, it gets only worse. Dual-mode modifiers would help, but they're PITA to deal with.
However, I have no problem carrying an ergodox/typematrix with me or switching between different physical layouts.
I said you were ignorant because you said doing what I suggested isn't portable. It wasn't an insult. I'm not even sure how anything you're saying now relates to anything I said. As for altgr being hard to reach, a wide mod (shifting right hand over one key) can help. You can also just remap altgr (not sure if that is possible portably, but it probably is). I'm not sure exactly what problems you're having with your layout.. it seems that you already have all the symbols you need mapped.. if so, what is the problem? I think you're addressing something that I didn't say.
I don't know what you want or are doing, but my original suggestion works fine for me.
Again: four layers might be enough for an English-speaking American (yay stereotypes!) outside academia or someone like that, but if you need to use diacritic marks or extra symbols all the time, it's a completely different story. That means another layer (like in case of DreymaR's mods or Neo). Last time I checked, it was PITA to implement on Mac OS X, and dealing with RDC and SSH was even worse.
In the end, it's just easier to bring some Teensy-based hardware... which is e.g. the ergodox—with plenty of (symmetric) modifiers, layers and macros.
Too bad I haven't had time to reupload stuff I deleted with my wiki and GitHub account.
The funny part is that the same discussion happened about three pages ago.
yup... Ergo Dox and qwerty debates all over again.
Our posts to each other are just like keyboarding manufacturers- releasing mildly updated versions of the same thing and we all buy (in to) it. :)
*post containing no logic whatsoever, only proving to everyone else how stubborn I am*
you act like an exceeding asshat to everyone who disagrees with you
Pot... meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Extra symbols/marks are only a PITA if you aren't willing to have dead keys ar add more layers. I will admit that I hardly ever use diacritical marks, so dead keys don't really annoy me.
Right now I'm using 5 layers on linux and windows and could easily add more. It isn't exactly hard to do. Might take a few hours, but then you're done. In my situation, I'm convinced a software solution is much better. I just don't have the space to lug around a keyboard or ergodox all the time. I'll probably look into them at some point (or maybe an arduino), but right now I'd only use a hardware solution out of necessity (which hasn't been a problem so far).
As for OS X, I honestly try to stay as far away from it as possible (xD), but if xmodmap works on it (I think it should but have not tested...), then it should be relatively easy to have 5-6 layers portably (as in just load a file with mappings from terminal and then restart to clear them or load back to qwerty mappings when done).
I mean.. ergodox is an impressive hardware solution (is 9 layers the max?), but I think you're overestimating the difficulty of doing this without one. I will admit it's probably a lot easier to do with an ergodox and not have to worry about this stuff, but then you do have to carry it around everywhere.
Extra symbols/marks are only a PITA if you aren't willing to have dead keys ar add more layers. I will admit that I hardly ever use diacritical marks, so dead keys don't really annoy me.
letter frequency in Czech (http://en.algoritmy.net/article/40382/Letter-frequency-Czech). Actually, there are very few words without any diacritic in real-life texts. Dead keys are tollerable for symbols with frequency below 1 %, such as umlauts (usully used only for names), but thumb-cluster modifiers are much more comfortable and "fluent" otherwise. The national layout puts those on number row—as you might imagine, it messes up the basic ASCII stuff.
Note that I'm completely ignoring Greek alphabet, math symbols etc.Right now I'm using 5 layers on linux and windows and could easily add more. It isn't exactly hard to do. Might take a few hours, but then you're done. In my situation, I'm convinced a software solution is much better. I just don't have the space to lug around a keyboard or ergodox all the time. I'll probably look into them at some point (or maybe an arduino), but right now I'd only use a hardware solution out of necessity (which hasn't been a problem so far).
As for OS X, I honestly try to stay as far away from it as possible (xD), but if xmodmap works on it (I think it should but have not tested...), then it should be relatively easy to have 5-6 layers portably (as in just load a file with mappings from terminal and then restart to clear them or load back to qwerty mappings when done).
I mean.. ergodox is an impressive hardware solution (is 9 layers the max?), but I think you're overestimating the difficulty of doing this without one. I will admit it's probably a lot easier to do with an ergodox and not have to worry about this stuff, but then you do have to carry it around everywhere.
Been there, done that. Two years ago, I actually used those OS X and Win7 machines to ssh to department's servers, and connected to remote Win7 machines via RDC. It was horrible. The host was sometimes just left hanging in there with a stuck modifier or something, sometimes keystrokes resulted in only inserting rubbish...
On the other hand, ergodox (or TM2030 in the worst case) is plug'n'play with very few exceptions (ways to enter unicode symbols are platform-dependent). Change clients and hosts layout to US QWERTY and that's it.
Clickclacks. I don't know why they're so sought after. The skull ones don't even look that great. Don't kill me geekhack.
TKL and 60%. If you don't want a numpad and save space, get a 75%. If you want to save even more space and get a 60%, just get a 40% and save even more space
It's been like a year, I just created an account a few days ago. I browse a lot.Clickclacks. I don't know why they're so sought after. The skull ones don't even look that great. Don't kill me geekhack.
Thought the same thing when I first joined GH, if you stick around your opinion might change. ;)
MX Blues. Typing on them now and they're just horrible sounding, can't wait to get home and swap the stems out for some clears :D
Die. I need my arrows and F# keysTKL and 60%. If you don't want a numpad and save space, get a 75%. If you want to save even more space and get a 60%, just get a 40% and save even more space
60% or die Pacifist :p
you're technically the target market for the filco minila then lol. ;)
poker = 60% for modding + looks
HHKB = for topre
minila = for most efficient F-row + cursor block access
tex = for looks + minila-like functionality
TKL and 60%. If you don't want a numpad and save space, get a 75%. If you want to save even more space and get a 60%, just get a 40% and save even more space
TKL and 60%. If you don't want a numpad and save space, get a 75%. If you want to save even more space and get a 60%, just get a 40% and save even more space
Let me shed some light on this, as someone who has gone from 75% to TKL.
1. You can't possibly get keycaps that fit, at least in one set, unless you get blanks. I've had noppoos and Keycools and finding replacement keycaps is a nightmare.
2. the size difference is not significant at all. I can't notice any difference what so ever swapping back and forth. I use a keycool at work and a filco TKL at home, and at no point at all does it strike me that one is slightly bigger than the other.
3. Build quality. The 75% boards are only produced by noppoo, keycool, KBT and other somewhat subpar manufacturers. Not saying they are awful, but I don't think anyone will challenge me on the claim that filco is vastly superior to all of the previously mentioned brands.
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Fortunately the scroll lock in my Code is somewhat useful now. It's a trigger to deactivate the Win key - useful in gaming.Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Ugh, scroll lock... Don't get us started...
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Ugh, scroll lock... Don't get us started...
Scroll Lock - What does it do? I've never used it in my lifetime, yet there it is...
Ugh, scroll lock... Don't get us started...
Open MS Excel, use arrow keys with scroll lock on and scroll lock off. You will see what it is for.