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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:45:17

Title: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:45:17
The new Xbox 1 turns out to be a crappy PC under the hood.  Which tells me that PC gaming is not dead.  Eventually Xbox people must realize that they are using a really low-grade PC, and that everything would be better with a real PC, with an SSD, a real video card, and a real keyboard, which all can be had for ~ $750 (USD), which is cheaper than Xbox 1.  But then again, sheep will be sheep, and they always get sheared.

(http://static.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2013-11-21-image-13.jpg)

See the story here:  http://www.techspot.com/news/54775-xbox-one-teardown-reveals-standard-pc-hardware-components.html
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:53:15
Why do they still use physical cd drives? Look how much space that wastes
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Tym on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:53:28
Who said PC gaming is dead?

u wrong, u so wrong
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:55:14
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:55:56
Why do they still use physical cd drives? Look how much space that wastes

Cost.  And from what I recall they actually have pretty bad ass vid cards.  Just not in the same realm of computing as desktop vid cards.  From what I recall in an article somewhere they are optimized very differently but still pretty good hardware on the video side that is.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: McWilloughby on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:57:33
2007ish - all of my friends back home were begging me (the sole PC gamer in the group) to get an Xbox 360, didn't have the money and wanted a new PC anyway.

2012/13 - every holiday I have from Uni I've spent building gaming PCs for my friends back home who seem to have realised you get more for your money with a PC.

Not really sure where the PC gaming is dead talk comes from :D
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:01:57
Who said PC gaming is dead?

u wrong, u so wrong

well, I didn't say PC gaming is dead.  The console gamers have been saying PC gaming is dead since about 2006.  And every year since then, PC gaming survives.  There was a rough patch there in about 2008-09, when it seemed like all the new games came out for the console, and then were "ported" to the PC.  But now I think the trend is finally reversing.  Except for GTA V, which will always be a console-first game.  And Resident Evil, I guess.  I hope the gaming public finally realizes how big of a rip-off this new Xbox is.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:08:23
2007ish - all of my friends back home were begging me (the sole PC gamer in the group) to get an Xbox 360, didn't have the money and wanted a new PC anyway.

2012/13 - every holiday I have from Uni I've spent building gaming PCs for my friends back home who seem to have realised you get more for your money with a PC.

Not really sure where the PC gaming is dead talk comes from :D

It probably comes from the fact that pre-built desktop PC sales are for the most part at an all time low.  I believe PC parts for enthusiasts are dropping a slight bit as well.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Tym on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:12:44
Who said PC gaming is dead?

u wrong, u so wrong

well, I didn't say PC gaming is dead.  The console gamers have been saying PC gaming is dead since about 2006.  And every year since then, PC gaming survives.  There was a rough patch there in about 2008-09, when it seemed like all the new games came out for the console, and then were "ported" to the PC.  But now I think the trend is finally reversing.  Except for GTA V, which will always be a console-first game.  And Resident Evil, I guess.  I hope the gaming public finally realizes how big of a rip-off this new Xbox is.

Sorry, I know you didn't say that. I was talking to who ever said that ;D
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:17:44
I am just looking forward to hopefully less lazy 'ports' to Windows since it's all x86-64 now.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:17:55
Who said PC gaming is dead?

u wrong, u so wrong

well, I didn't say PC gaming is dead.  The console gamers have been saying PC gaming is dead since about 2006.  And every year since then, PC gaming survives.  There was a rough patch there in about 2008-09, when it seemed like all the new games came out for the console, and then were "ported" to the PC.  But now I think the trend is finally reversing.  Except for GTA V, which will always be a console-first game.  And Resident Evil, I guess.  I hope the gaming public finally realizes how big of a rip-off this new Xbox is.

Sorry, I know you didn't say that. I was talking to who ever said that ;D

No Problemo Seņor!  At least we can agree that the Xbox Xsux.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:20:01
If anything, it's console gaming that's on the decline in the broad spectrum of things. Yes there are more people today who play games on consoles than say 15 years ago, but that number is only high due to the increased number of total gamers. The gap between PC and console players is closing due to many factors(absorbed is really the correct term here,) and by the next-next gen consoles as we know them will be all but relics in the market.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:24:59
Yup.. the Xbox is a PC in every way in terms of hardware..

The argument of Console/PC is really only semantics...

In general,, Console is an attempt to pimp software developers on part of Microsoft/ Sony/ Nintendo

On PC,,  the same pimping occurs with STEAM...


Yea.. u a *****.. what you gonna do...   (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/17f0f3b0.gif)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:33:12
Yup.. the Xbox is a PC in every way in terms of hardware..

The argument of Console/PC is really only semantics...

In general,, Console is an attempt to pimp software developers on part of Microsoft/ Sony/ Nintendo

On PC,,  the same pimping occurs with STEAM...


Yea.. u a *****.. what you gonna do...   
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/17f0f3b0.gif)


That's why I do all my current console gaming on consoles made before 2000! You can actually tell you're playing a game made for that system as opposed to something that has greener pastures on the PC. And even then, when I play a console it's usually a SNES or Neo Geo anyway and barring dirty emulators, those systems have very distinct gamefeel personalities.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:39:13
I see eth0s is a resident genius, but unfortunately still hasn't managed to wrap his (obviously massive) brain around the concept of a video game console.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:41:41
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:43:37
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

I can see why your the 'HHKB Overlord'
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:44:52
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

I can see why your the 'HHKB Overlord'


'you're'


And why is that?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 25 November 2013, 14:03:14
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

My only argument is MS and Sony want to peruse the multimedia hub angle when everyone in America who would potentially buy a console already owns a PC that's already a multimedia hub. People are still thought locked into the notion that a game console has to be this separate entity from their lives than something 'practical' is, but as soon as folks wake up a shake off those preconceptions they'll see that their PC already does all those things. Companies would be better off selling a proprietary disk drive that hooks up to devices via USB and HDMI while giving developers minimum spec guidelines to ensure less powerful PCs can run it's games, but the option to max out settings as well if your PC can handle it.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 14:08:51
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

My only argument is MS and Sony want to peruse the multimedia hub angle when everyone in America who would potentially buy a console already owns a PC that's already a multimedia hub. People are still thought locked into the notion that a game console has to be this separate entity from their lives than something 'practical' is, but as soon as folks wake up a shake off those preconceptions they'll see that their PC already does all those things. Companies would be better off selling a proprietary disk drive that hooks up to devices via USB and HDMI while giving developers minimum spec guidelines to ensure less powerful PCs can run it's games, but the option to max out settings as well if your PC can handle it.


Well on the point of a PC already doing all of these things; yes and no. From a price perspective, which is the main argument for a console, setting up a PC to do all of these things would require more investment than just plopping down for a console in the first place. You are basically getting a full multimedia capable system that runs games at high resolution at an affordable (to most) price point.


Now, before anyone makes assumptions (as I think baldgye might have), I am a hardcore PC gamer and prefer it over a console any day. But even I can see the innate value in a console over a PC in the long run, or for people that don't want to have to upgrade to play the latest games in high resolution. But that might also be just me and my penchant for needing to upgrade all the time :P
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 25 November 2013, 14:28:32
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

My only argument is MS and Sony want to peruse the multimedia hub angle when everyone in America who would potentially buy a console already owns a PC that's already a multimedia hub. People are still thought locked into the notion that a game console has to be this separate entity from their lives than something 'practical' is, but as soon as folks wake up a shake off those preconceptions they'll see that their PC already does all those things. Companies would be better off selling a proprietary disk drive that hooks up to devices via USB and HDMI while giving developers minimum spec guidelines to ensure less powerful PCs can run it's games, but the option to max out settings as well if your PC can handle it.


Well on the point of a PC already doing all of these things; yes and no. From a price perspective, which is the main argument for a console, setting up a PC to do all of these things would require more investment than just plopping down for a console in the first place. You are basically getting a full multimedia capable system that runs games at high resolution at an affordable (to most) price point.


Now, before anyone makes assumptions (as I think baldgye might have), I am a hardcore PC gamer and prefer it over a console any day. But even I can see the innate value in a console over a PC in the long run, or for people that don't want to have to upgrade to play the latest games in high resolution. But that might also be just me and my penchant for needing to upgrade all the time :P

PC hardware has recently been increasing in specs much faster than hardware requirements for games.  My GTX 560 can still handle any new game just fine as long as I don't make the settings ridiculous.

Consoles are just intentionally crippled PCs that appeal to parents and families because they are easier to control the content on than PCs.
The console developers know this and pay for exclusive titles as incentive for buying them.

PCs can also emulate games for most consoles anyway.

As I've said before:

Why are consoles crippled?

*Can't upgrade hardware
*Can't run most software
*Can't modify your game files
*Limited communications
*Limited peripherals
*Limited selection of games compared with PC
*Little to no free-to-play, homebrew, or indie
*Peripherals are console specific
*Software is console-specific
*Software is usually locked to a physical object to prevent copying
*Limited ability to run multiple programs or apps at the same time
*Consoles are not easily repairable
*FPS controls are better on PC
*More ways to purchase games and price competition
*Forced software, social media, and advertising

Basically consoles are meant to be disposable entertainment for children or people who don't have a decent PC.  The next console version comes out and suddenly your entire console, games, accessories, and peripherals are useless.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 14:31:03
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

My only argument is MS and Sony want to peruse the multimedia hub angle when everyone in America who would potentially buy a console already owns a PC that's already a multimedia hub. People are still thought locked into the notion that a game console has to be this separate entity from their lives than something 'practical' is, but as soon as folks wake up a shake off those preconceptions they'll see that their PC already does all those things. Companies would be better off selling a proprietary disk drive that hooks up to devices via USB and HDMI while giving developers minimum spec guidelines to ensure less powerful PCs can run it's games, but the option to max out settings as well if your PC can handle it.


Well on the point of a PC already doing all of these things; yes and no. From a price perspective, which is the main argument for a console, setting up a PC to do all of these things would require more investment than just plopping down for a console in the first place. You are basically getting a full multimedia capable system that runs games at high resolution at an affordable (to most) price point.


Now, before anyone makes assumptions (as I think baldgye might have), I am a hardcore PC gamer and prefer it over a console any day. But even I can see the innate value in a console over a PC in the long run, or for people that don't want to have to upgrade to play the latest games in high resolution. But that might also be just me and my penchant for needing to upgrade all the time :p

PC hardware has recently been increasing in specs much faster than hardware requirements for games.  My GTX 560 can still handle any new game just fine as long as I don't make the settings ridiculous.

Consoles are just intentionally crippled PCs that appeal to parents and families because they are easier to control the content on than PCs.
The console developers know this and pay for exclusive titles as incentive for buying them.

PCs can also emulate games for most consoles anyway.

As I've said before:

Why are consoles crippled?

*Can't upgrade hardware
*Can't run most software
*Can't modify your game files
*Limited communications
*Limited peripherals
*Limited selection of games compared with PC
*Little to no free-to-play, homebrew, or indie
*Peripherals are console specific
*Software is console-specific
*Software is usually locked to a physical object to prevent copying
*Limited ability to run multiple programs or apps at the same time
*Consoles are not easily repairable
*FPS controls are better on PC
*More ways to purchase games and price competition

Basically consoles are meant to be disposable entertainment for children or people who don't have a decent PC.  The next console version comes out and suddenly your entire console, games, accessories, and peripherals are useless.


Preaching to the choir.


And on the point of 'next console version makes your current one useless' is not true. I have no plans on getting an Xbox One over my 360 for quite a long time. GTA V being the biggest reason. I have tons of games for the 360, so I am well invested in it and see no need or reason to upgrade.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 25 November 2013, 14:40:01
The main point of consoles is to appeal to a larger audience both in price, and accessibility. You can't build a PC that can push games the way the 360 or Xbox One can at that price point.


The graphics processing in the One is equivalent to a GTX 680, maybe more. That card alone would cost you almost the price of the Xbox One.


So yes, it is a PC inside, but a much more affordable one that people don't have to mess with.

I can see why your the 'HHKB Overlord'


'you're'

lol

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 25 November 2013, 15:31:25
"PC gaming is dead" is something people said  in the early 2000's at the apex of the 6th generation of consoles, into the beginning of the 7th. Around that time the desktop PC started dwindling and everyone bought laptops instead which were incapable of running games; console games were simpler than the relative pain-in-the-ass of installing games to PC and dealing with DRM, multiple discs and downloading patches on slow connections; software/hardware developers had worked out how to overcome the limitations of console controls using cover systems, analog sticks, etc.

Since then Steam has become the dominant format for PC gaming, and made it simpler than consoles; consoles in turn have gotten more complicated and adopted some of the hassles that were previously limited to PCs. The fact game engine demands have been largely pegged to the generation of consoles mean that even your standard, cheapo laptop can probably run most games these days which broadens the userbase massively. PC gaming has become more inclusive with indie titles and more diverse genres (think things like the Tropico series, Sins of a Solar Empire, Minecraft, TellTale games, etc.) that appeal to non-traditional gaming demographics like women and more mature people whilst console gaming is still largely dominated by the male teenage/twentysomething "lol ***ut!" CoD crowd.

I really think the "PC gaming is dead" mantra lost all shred of relevance in around 2008. Developers know this, that's why near every title is multiformat on release including PC, as opposed to the early half of the last decade where the PC was given a shoddy port 6-18 months later, or forgotten altogether. The Steam userbase dwarfs the sales of consoles put together, and the PC more often than not comes out on top out of the three main formats (PC, Xbox, PS) although doesn't beat the console sales collectively (yet).
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 25 November 2013, 15:45:53
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA


GTX 680 .... realllllly..... 
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 25 November 2013, 15:49:41
So do they run a cut-down version of Windows?

Anyone seen a "blah blah blah press F1 to continue" boot message?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: RabRhee on Mon, 25 November 2013, 16:08:04
The more consoles become based on PC hardware, the better for true PC gaming it will be. The console market has so many skilled games producers that them jamming on pure PC kit can only help, with port overs like Ivan says, but also with pure knowledge of what the kit can do.

Console programmers often push the boundaries more because they have to. Some of the most gifted programmers of old were the ones working on slow or outdated kit. When some arcade hit showed up and every home computer wanted a version, the poor programmer trying to reproduce Hard Drivin' on the spectrum had a harder job to do it well than the Amiga guy. They sometimes did amazing things with crap hardware.

A lower spec console does have the ability to outperform a PC of maybe 20% or even better spec simply because writing for a multiplatform like the PC causes a significant stack of overhead writing to account for all the foibles of varied hardware, not to mention near-future hardware, OS variances, hell even mouse varieties. Sure drivers should make that all easy :P. Of course throwing big bucks at a PC build will always be better. There is room for both.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:33:26
This whole topic is far too subjective to have a definitive "right" or "wrong".
If you like console gaming for any reason at all then you're "right".
If you like PC gaming for any reason at all then you're also "right".
If you like both for different reasons then guess what?! You're "right"!

So I'm gonna enjoy Both BF4 and COD  (yea I enjoy both so what?) on my PS4 and SC2, LOL and Civ 5 on my computer. And I'm gonna have one hell of a time doing both!

Happy gaming to you all. No matter your poison! 

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:42:12
Provided the hardware is halfway capable, it gives game-authors a fixed platform with known limits to target.

As opposed to writing for PCs in general where some hardware is considerably more powerful than other, and you have to support everything inbetween.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:53:42
Maybe we should just go back to this?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Atari-2600-Wood-4Sw-Set.jpg)

Anybody remember the Atari 2600?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:54:44
^^ I'd still play it!
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:56:43
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Woah, thank you. Why is this even still a debate?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 21:08:20
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?  Unless you are a mindless drone, looking for the same dumbed-down "specific content [delivered] to everybody the same way".  I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saddened that people buy the Xbox.  It seems like a rip-off to me.  And a way to conform.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 21:10:49
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?  Unless you are a mindless drone, looking for the same dumbed-down "specific content [delivered] to everybody the same way".  I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saddened that people buy the Xbox.  It seems like a rip-off to me.  And a way to conform.


This is probably the most thoughtless response I have heard from you. You can do better (maybe)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 25 November 2013, 21:44:00
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?  Unless you are a mindless drone, looking for the same dumbed-down "specific content [delivered] to everybody the same way".  I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saddened that people buy the Xbox.  It seems like a rip-off to me.  And a way to conform.

Reminds me of what Google is doing now with Google+.  "Oh you want to comment on something?  You'll have to set up your Google+ profile, including your real name, which will be displayed on all your posts.  We will also keep a log of everything you do displayed on your new Google+ live feed".
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 22:10:27
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?  Unless you are a mindless drone, looking for the same dumbed-down "specific content [delivered] to everybody the same way".  I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saddened that people buy the Xbox.  It seems like a rip-off to me.  And a way to conform.


This is probably the most thoughtless response I have heard from you. You can do better (maybe)

lol.

Thoughtless?  how?  Like devoid of thought?  Or inconsiderate?  If you mean inconsiderate, then I apologize, since I didn't mean to offend any Xbox 1 fans.  I guess I should have said the Xbox 1 is not for me, and left it at that.

If you mean devoid of thought, well, I guess it's true that I didn't think much about the Xbox 1.  Baldgye might be right that I didn't understand the concept of the console when I started this thread, but maybe I am beginning to understand what the console really represents.  And what the Xbox 1 represents is the current state of middle-brow culture in America, which is mired in mediocrity, hampered by pusillanimity, and hood-winked by false comfort, all of which promotes a slavish conformity to Microsoft and the dictates of a billionaire plutocrat like Bill Gates.  I guess I am beginning to lose faith in the broad swath of the middle of the American people.  They have lost their fire, and their independence.  Since when are Americans so easy to accept the easy conformity of the Xbox?  Unlike other cultures and other countries at other times, the great American middle never gave up before, and never simply embraced defeat.  They fought the British in 1776, and the Canadians/ British in 1812, and the Rebel South in 1864, and the crazy Kaiser in 1918, and the spectre of financial ruination in 1932, and the evil of fascism in 1941, and the Racism and social injustice of the '50's and '60's, the Cold War in the '80's, grunge music in the '90's, but then it stopped.  Now in 2013, there seems to be no middle.  Nothing to staunch the slide.  It seems to me that when Steve Jobs died on October 11, 2011, a part of the American spirit died as well. 
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 22:18:58

lol.

Thoughtless?  how?  Like devoid of thought?  Or inconsiderate?  If you mean inconsiderate, then I apologize, since I didn't mean to offend any Xbox 1 fans.  I guess I should have said the Xbox 1 is not for me, and left it at that.

If you mean devoid of thought, well, I guess it's true that I didn't think much about the Xbox 1.  Baldgye might be right that I didn't understand the concept of the console when I started this thread, but maybe I am beginning to understand what the console really represents.  And what the Xbox 1 represents is the current state of middle-brow culture in America, which is mired in mediocrity, hampered by pusillanimity, and hood-winked by false comfort, all of which promotes a slavish conformity to Microsoft and the dictates of a billionaire plutocrat like Bill Gates.  I guess I am beginning to lose faith in the broad swath of the middle of the American people.  They have lost their fire, and their independence.  Since when are Americans so easy to accept the easy conformity of the Xbox?  Unlike other cultures and other countries at other times, the great American middle never gave up before, and never simply embraced defeat.  They fought the British in 1776, and the Canadians/ British in 1812, and the Rebel South in 1864, and the crazy Kaiser in 1918, and the spectre of financial ruination in 1932, and the evil of fascism in 1941, and the Racism and social injustice of the '50's and '60's, the Cold War in the '80's, grunge music in the '90's, but then it stopped.  Now in 2013, there seems to be no middle.  Nothing to staunch the slide.  It seems to me that when Steve Jobs died on October 11, 2011, a part of the American spirit died as well.


(http://i.imgur.com/6r98V5p.gif)


What does any of this have to do with the subject of the thread? I think referring to this as a tangent, would be a severe understatement.


I think metalliqaz summed it up pretty nicely. /bravo
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 25 November 2013, 22:29:04
This whole topic is far too subjective to have a definitive "right" or "wrong".
If you like console gaming for any reason at all then you're "right".
If you like PC gaming for any reason at all then you're also "right".
If you like both for different reasons then guess what?! You're "right"!

So I'm gonna enjoy Both BF4 and COD  (yea I enjoy both so what?) on my PS4 and SC2, LOL and Civ 5 on my computer. And I'm gonna have one hell of a time doing both!

Happy gaming to you all. No matter your poison! 



I am torn on the BF4 issue.. because between PC and Console they're 2 completely different games..  The play style will be completely different even given the same map..

Because the choke point on PC is going to be much larger than on Console..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 22:54:51

lol.

Thoughtless?  how?  Like devoid of thought?  Or inconsiderate?  If you mean inconsiderate, then I apologize, since I didn't mean to offend any Xbox 1 fans.  I guess I should have said the Xbox 1 is not for me, and left it at that.

If you mean devoid of thought, well, I guess it's true that I didn't think much about the Xbox 1.  Baldgye might be right that I didn't understand the concept of the console when I started this thread, but maybe I am beginning to understand what the console really represents.  And what the Xbox 1 represents is the current state of middle-brow culture in America, which is mired in mediocrity, hampered by pusillanimity, and hood-winked by false comfort, all of which promotes a slavish conformity to Microsoft and the dictates of a billionaire plutocrat like Bill Gates.  I guess I am beginning to lose faith in the broad swath of the middle of the American people.  They have lost their fire, and their independence.  Since when are Americans so easy to accept the easy conformity of the Xbox?  Unlike other cultures and other countries at other times, the great American middle never gave up before, and never simply embraced defeat.  They fought the British in 1776, and the Canadians/ British in 1812, and the Rebel South in 1864, and the crazy Kaiser in 1918, and the spectre of financial ruination in 1932, and the evil of fascism in 1941, and the Racism and social injustice of the '50's and '60's, the Cold War in the '80's, grunge music in the '90's, but then it stopped.  Now in 2013, there seems to be no middle.  Nothing to staunch the slide.  It seems to me that when Steve Jobs died on October 11, 2011, a part of the American spirit died as well.


What does any of this have to do with the subject of the thread? I think referring to this as a tangent, would be a severe understatement.


I think metalliqaz summed it up pretty nicely. /bravo

How can I be tangential to my own thread?  I am the ultimate authority on what I am saying.  And I am not tangential.  :p

But seriously, what I am saying is that I agreed with metalliqaz.   But his comment made me feel even worse about the Xbox than I did before, because it made me realize how bad the Xbox really is.  The Xbox, or the console in general, is a standardized (i.e., cheap) set of hardware running a standardized (i.e., limited) set of software, delivering a standardized (i.e., controlled) set of info-tainment to the middle of America.  Maybe I am an extreme person, or a border-line conspiracist, but that sounds like a very dangerous combination to me.  Microsoft is not selling you a window on the world, they are making you pay for your own shackle and a GPS tracker that will track everything you do with the Xbox, from shopping to movie-viewing to gaming to your political viewpoint.  You already live in a world controlled by a shockingly tiny number of plutocrats:  you already get all of your news from one of 4 billionaires.  You borrow your mortgage loan from one of about 20 billionaires.  You get your software from one of 4 billionaires.  And now you can be watched more easily for signs of defiance, deviance from the group-think, or other forms of non-conformity, through your Xbox.  The Xbox is dangerous, and it's the worst kind of danger, because it's insidious.  It invites itself into your home, and you welcome it, because it's so easy, and seems so harmless.  I thought Americans had an innate revulsion to this sort of thing, but apparently not.  Old George Orwell warned about a plutocratic government that keeps you frightened with a perpetual war, and that spies on you through a device that it installs in your home, that you are forced to keep on every minute of every day, that feeds you family entertainment and "news", all while gathering information about you, and gauging your propensity for independent thought and resistance to the government's policies.  That sounds like science fiction, until you think about the capability of the Xbox 1.   
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Mon, 25 November 2013, 22:58:18

lol.

Thoughtless?  how?  Like devoid of thought?  Or inconsiderate?  If you mean inconsiderate, then I apologize, since I didn't mean to offend any Xbox 1 fans.  I guess I should have said the Xbox 1 is not for me, and left it at that.

If you mean devoid of thought, well, I guess it's true that I didn't think much about the Xbox 1.  Baldgye might be right that I didn't understand the concept of the console when I started this thread, but maybe I am beginning to understand what the console really represents.  And what the Xbox 1 represents is the current state of middle-brow culture in America, which is mired in mediocrity, hampered by pusillanimity, and hood-winked by false comfort, all of which promotes a slavish conformity to Microsoft and the dictates of a billionaire plutocrat like Bill Gates.  I guess I am beginning to lose faith in the broad swath of the middle of the American people.  They have lost their fire, and their independence.  Since when are Americans so easy to accept the easy conformity of the Xbox?  Unlike other cultures and other countries at other times, the great American middle never gave up before, and never simply embraced defeat.  They fought the British in 1776, and the Canadians/ British in 1812, and the Rebel South in 1864, and the crazy Kaiser in 1918, and the spectre of financial ruination in 1932, and the evil of fascism in 1941, and the Racism and social injustice of the '50's and '60's, the Cold War in the '80's, grunge music in the '90's, but then it stopped.  Now in 2013, there seems to be no middle.  Nothing to staunch the slide.  It seems to me that when Steve Jobs died on October 11, 2011, a part of the American spirit died as well.


What does any of this have to do with the subject of the thread? I think referring to this as a tangent, would be a severe understatement.


I think metalliqaz summed it up pretty nicely. /bravo

How can I be tangential to my own thread?  I am the ultimate authority on what I am saying.  And I am not tangential.  :p

But seriously, what I am saying is that I agreed with metalliqaz.   But his comment made me feel even worse about the Xbox than I did before, because it made me realize how bad the Xbox really is.  The Xbox, or the console in general, is a standardized (i.e., cheap) set of hardware running a standardized (i.e., limited) set of software, delivering a standardized (i.e., controlled) set of info-tainment to the middle of America.  Maybe I am an extreme person, or a border-line conspiracist, but that sounds like a very dangerous combination to me.  Microsoft is not selling you a window on the world, they are making you pay for your own shackle and a GPS tracker that will track everything you do with the Xbox, from shopping to movie-viewing to gaming to your political viewpoint.  You already live in a world controlled by a shockingly tiny number of plutocrats:  you already get all of your news from one of 4 billionaires.  You borrow your mortgage loan from one of about 20 billionaires.  You get your software from one of 4 billionaires.  And now you can be watched more easily for signs of defiance, deviance from the group-think, or other forms of non-conformity, through your Xbox.  The Xbox is dangerous, and it's the worst kind of danger, because it's insidious.  It invites itself into your home, and you welcome it, because it's so easy, and seems so harmless.  I thought Americans had an innate revulsion to this sort of thing, but apparently not.  Old George Orwell warned about a plutocratic government that keeps you frightened with a perpetual war, and that spies on you through a device that it installs in your home, that you are forced to keep on every minute of every day, that feeds you family entertainment and "news", all while gathering information about you, and gauging your propensity for independent thought and resistance to the government's policies.  That sounds like science fiction, until you think about the capability of the Xbox 1.


(http://i.imgur.com/DqrDcDA.jpg)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 25 November 2013, 23:01:24

lol.

Thoughtless?  how?  Like devoid of thought?  Or inconsiderate?  If you mean inconsiderate, then I apologize, since I didn't mean to offend any Xbox 1 fans.  I guess I should have said the Xbox 1 is not for me, and left it at that.

If you mean devoid of thought, well, I guess it's true that I didn't think much about the Xbox 1.  Baldgye might be right that I didn't understand the concept of the console when I started this thread, but maybe I am beginning to understand what the console really represents.  And what the Xbox 1 represents is the current state of middle-brow culture in America, which is mired in mediocrity, hampered by pusillanimity, and hood-winked by false comfort, all of which promotes a slavish conformity to Microsoft and the dictates of a billionaire plutocrat like Bill Gates.  I guess I am beginning to lose faith in the broad swath of the middle of the American people.  They have lost their fire, and their independence.  Since when are Americans so easy to accept the easy conformity of the Xbox?  Unlike other cultures and other countries at other times, the great American middle never gave up before, and never simply embraced defeat.  They fought the British in 1776, and the Canadians/ British in 1812, and the Rebel South in 1864, and the crazy Kaiser in 1918, and the spectre of financial ruination in 1932, and the evil of fascism in 1941, and the Racism and social injustice of the '50's and '60's, the Cold War in the '80's, grunge music in the '90's, but then it stopped.  Now in 2013, there seems to be no middle.  Nothing to staunch the slide.  It seems to me that when Steve Jobs died on October 11, 2011, a part of the American spirit died as well.


What does any of this have to do with the subject of the thread? I think referring to this as a tangent, would be a severe understatement.


I think metalliqaz summed it up pretty nicely. /bravo

How can I be tangential to my own thread?  I am the ultimate authority on what I am saying.  And I am not tangential.  :p

But seriously, what I am saying is that I agreed with metalliqaz.   But his comment made me feel even worse about the Xbox than I did before, because it made me realize how bad the Xbox really is.  The Xbox, or the console in general, is a standardized (i.e., cheap) set of hardware running a standardized (i.e., limited) set of software, delivering a standardized (i.e., controlled) set of info-tainment to the middle of America.  Maybe I am an extreme person, or a border-line conspiracist, but that sounds like a very dangerous combination to me.  Microsoft is not selling you a window on the world, they are making you pay for your own shackle and a GPS tracker that will track everything you do with the Xbox, from shopping to movie-viewing to gaming to your political viewpoint.  You already live in a world controlled by a shockingly tiny number of plutocrats:  you already get all of your news from one of 4 billionaires.  You borrow your mortgage loan from one of about 20 billionaires.  You get your software from one of 4 billionaires.  And now you can be watched more easily for signs of defiance, deviance from the group-think, or other forms of non-conformity, through your Xbox.  The Xbox is dangerous, and it's the worst kind of danger, because it's insidious.  It invites itself into your home, and you welcome it, because it's so easy, and seems so harmless.  I thought Americans had an innate revulsion to this sort of thing, but apparently not.  Old George Orwell warned about a plutocratic government that keeps you frightened with a perpetual war, and that spies on you through a device that it installs in your home, that you are forced to keep on every minute of every day, that feeds you family entertainment and "news", all while gathering information about you, and gauging your propensity for independent thought and resistance to the government's policies.  That sounds like science fiction, until you think about the capability of the Xbox 1.


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DqrDcDA.jpg)


Well, you can laugh at me now.  But wait 'till the thought police come busting down your door.  Who will be laughing then?  (Well not me, because they will come for me first.)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 26 November 2013, 01:55:40
I am torn on the BF4 issue.. because between PC and Console they're 2 completely different games..  The play style will be completely different even given the same map..
Even more reason for consoles to still exist, no? The fact that the same game on console and PC will feel and play differently? It's just another proof that this is all way too subjective.

As far as the BF4 vs COD debate goes (and I know this is off topic), I got COD because EA forced Dice to push out BF4 way too early and the result was a broken game nowhere near ready for market and basically unplayable. I was tired of sitting around waiting for them to fix it. I gave it a week. Now that may not sound like a long time but it is when you give $60 to a company and find out that they KNEW the thing didn't work and they threw it on the shelves anyway. That is the mark of a terrible company. This was my first experience with the Battlefield series and it was a horrible one to say the least. I wanted to like it and to be blown away but instead I couldn't even try the game. I don't want to blame dice for any of this because I'm fairly certain that it would be EA who would make that kind of push through quality control just to beat COD to market and take our hard earned money with no concern for the customer what so ever.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 26 November 2013, 02:19:33
Even though I own a PC that has been able to play pretty much everything and a laptop I bought last year that even outperforms it I can still see the appeal of the Xbox One.
I would love one of those as a media machine and to play games together with friends in the same room. But mostly the media part.

Will I play certain games on PC? Yes, of course. Will I prefer to own certain games on Console? Probably.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 26 November 2013, 14:19:23
Even though I own a PC that has been able to play pretty much everything and a laptop I bought last year that even outperforms it I can still see the appeal of the Xbox One.
I would love one of those as a media machine and to play games together with friends in the same room. But mostly the media part.

Will I play certain games on PC? Yes, of course. Will I prefer to own certain games on Console? Probably.


You can use a PC to play media or play games together with friends on a television.

(http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/b/b3/Kevin-Butler-Mind-Blown.gif)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 26 November 2013, 14:31:59
Computers aren't connected to TVs in every home. It would be a pain in the ass to have to move your desktop every time you want to play a game in the living room.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 26 November 2013, 15:09:49
SteamOS will let you stream over your LAN to your TV so you can play Windows PC games at whatever settings your gaming PC allows, even though the SteamOS device itself could potentially be a small, inexpensive box with an ARM processor.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Tue, 26 November 2013, 15:10:13
Everyone stop fighting and watch this video. Linus makes some good points.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 26 November 2013, 15:46:24
Oh man, reading the comments for that one is great!  :thumb:

Good comparison.  I am glad that he brought in the 360 to the picture, and that they were very subjective giving the pros and cons of each.  It pretty much comes down to what titles you want to play, and if you want/care about any additional features each system. 

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: trentva on Tue, 26 November 2013, 16:32:47
ps4 will most likely be the future of console gaming...
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 26 November 2013, 18:04:44
Is it just me, or does anyone else see "XBONE" as "X bone"?

Or maybe it is supposed to be "cross bone" as in pirates?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 26 November 2013, 18:45:43
Even though I own a PC that has been able to play pretty much everything and a laptop I bought last year that even outperforms it I can still see the appeal of the Xbox One.
I would love one of those as a media machine and to play games together with friends in the same room. But mostly the media part.

Will I play certain games on PC? Yes, of course. Will I prefer to own certain games on Console? Probably.


You can use a PC to play media or play games together with friends on a television.
Show Image
(http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/b/b3/Kevin-Butler-Mind-Blown.gif)

My desktop is a 20Kg beast of a case that I do not want to haul down two flights of stairs. And even an excellent piece of DLNA software like Mezzmo (http://www.conceiva.com/productS/mezzmo/default.aSp) doesn't always cut it. For streaming 30GB Full HD content in any file or container type either the TV or the computer sometimes gets choppy.

So thank you for your comment...
(http://i.imgur.com/yv0JSz1.gif)
But please refrain from doing so in the future.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:12:43
PC gaming is not the answer for everyone. I think the 1 Million+ PS4 launch day buyers and the 1 Million+ XBone launch day buyers demonstrates that quite nicely. However the PS4s sales were limited to North America only and XBone was sold in 13 different countries at launch so that should put things into perspective a little. Had PS4 launched in Japan and Europe the same day as in North America, it probably would have dwarfed the XBones sales at launch.

But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:18:41
PC gaming is not the answer for everyone. I think the 1 Million+ PS4 launch day buyers and the 1 Million+ XBone launch day buyers demonstrates that quite nicely. However the PS4s sales were limited to North America only and XBone was sold in 13 different countries at launch so that should put things into perspective a little. Had PS4 launched in Japan and Europe the same day as in North America, it probably would have dwarfed the XBones sales at launch.

But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.
+1
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:45:56
PC MASTER RACE CHECKING IN.

XBOX GLORIFIED NETFLIX STREAMER

Quote
But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.

lil wayne sells millions of albums. doesn't mean he's good. just means there are a lot of dumb mother****ers out there.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: regack on Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:54:47
Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Kinect.


(I'm not saying I agree with anything going on here, I just wanted to toss this into the mix :D)

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:59:17
PC MASTER RACE CHECKING IN.

XBOX GLORIFIED NETFLIX STREAMER

Quote
But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.

lil wayne sells millions of albums. doesn't mean he's good. just means there are a lot of dumb mother****ers out there.
HWWHHAAAATTTT!!?? OKAY!!!!!
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:00:17
PC MASTER RACE CHECKING IN.

XBOX GLORIFIED NETFLIX STREAMER

Quote
But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.

lil wayne sells millions of albums. doesn't mean he's good. just means there are a lot of dumb mother****ers out there.
HWWHHAAAATTTT!!?? OKAY!!!!!

wrong black guy!
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:01:59
^ really? Damn.. I thought I nailed that one!!

EDIT: But I already gave myself high fives!!!
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: PointyFox on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:05:08
Is it just me, or does anyone else see "XBONE" as "X bone"?

Or maybe it is supposed to be "cross bone" as in pirates?

I thought they were saying "X BONE" until I read your post twice.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:06:16
^ really? Damn.. I thought I nailed that one!!

EDIT: But I already gave myself high fives!!!

you must be a part time cop then
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:09:37
^ really? Damn.. I thought I nailed that one!!

EDIT: But I already gave myself high fives!!!

you must be a part time cop then
Ohh he's the "Lil" who sounds like he's singing through a tracheostomy speaking device all the time. My bad. Wrong "Lil"
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:11:34
^ really? Damn.. I thought I nailed that one!!

EDIT: But I already gave myself high fives!!!

you must be a part time cop then
Ohh he's the "Lil" who sounds like he's singing through a tracheostomy speaking device all the time. My bad. Wrong "Lil"

he's the lil that is actually lil.

like 5'2 or something.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 00:20:55
^ really? Damn.. I thought I nailed that one!!

EDIT: But I already gave myself high fives!!!

you must be a part time cop then
Ohh he's the "Lil" who sounds like he's singing through a tracheostomy speaking device all the time. My bad. Wrong "Lil"

he's the lil that is actually lil.

like 5'2 or something.
Awwww. Lil fella. He thinks he's people.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: vun on Wed, 27 November 2013, 01:08:56
Is it just me, or does anyone else see "XBONE" as "X bone"?


That's the whole point, it's not really meant as an endearing term, but I'm glad it stuck.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: SUPER432 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 01:50:23
The new Xbox 1 turns out to be a crappy PC under the hood.  Which tells me that PC gaming is not dead.  Eventually Xbox people must realize that they are using a really low-grade PC, and that everything would be better with a real PC, with an SSD, a real video card, and a real keyboard, which all can be had for ~ $750 (USD), which is cheaper than Xbox 1.  But then again, sheep will be sheep, and they always get sheared.

Did you prefer console launches with more exotic hardware, like PS3 Cell or Sega's strange architectures?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 02:03:43
I just have one question I would like to ask in regards to the OP.
How is ~$750 cheaper than the Xbox 1 which is $499?

Serious question. Not trying to stir the pot.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: SUPER432 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 02:16:30
I just have one question I would like to ask in regards to the OP.
How is ~$750 cheaper than the Xbox 1 which is $499?

Serious question. Not trying to stir the pot.

To play devil's advocate, I'm assuming the answer is that at $750 it can do X more things for only Y more dollars.

I'm sure you could build a machine that can outpace the Xbox1 dollar for dollar at $499, but even then not everyone wants to tinker.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 02:18:23
I just have one question I would like to ask in regards to the OP.
How is ~$750 cheaper than the Xbox 1 which is $499?

Serious question. Not trying to stir the pot.

To play devil's advocate, I'm assuming the answer is that at $750 it can do X more things for only Y more dollars.

I'm sure you could build a machine that can outpace the Xbox1 dollar for dollar at $499, but even then not everyone wants to tinker.
Yea, that's what I was wondering.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: SUPER432 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 02:26:01
PC MASTER RACE CHECKING IN.

XBOX GLORIFIED NETFLIX STREAMER

Quote
But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.

lil wayne sells millions of albums. doesn't mean he's good. just means there are a lot of dumb mother****ers out there.

Growing up I had a PC but always wanted Nintendo consoles for Mario games. IMO there wasn't a PC platformer that could compare, at the time. Of course, there weren't games like Day of the Tentacle for consoles, so it wasn't one-sided in the least. Different strengths, different strokes, whatever. This may be less and less so, especially this generation with consoles and PCs sharing the same architecture, but the exclusives to certain consoles still exist.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:21:50
Computers aren't connected to TVs in every home. It would be a pain in the ass to have to move your desktop every time you want to play a game in the living room.

here's the thing.. Why do people still go to their living rooms?..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:23:00
Computers aren't connected to TVs in every home. It would be a pain in the ass to have to move your desktop every time you want to play a game in the living room.

here's the thing.. Why do people still go to their living rooms?..
To live.....isn't it obvious?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:27:24
Computers aren't connected to TVs in every home. It would be a pain in the ass to have to move your desktop every time you want to play a game in the living room.

here's the thing.. Why do people still go to their living rooms?..
To live.....isn't it obvious?

Hmm.. if that's the case, I've existed as an undead ever since getting broadband in 8th grade.

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_015_orz-v2.gif)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:03:20
I imagined you precisely as one of those guys, tp. Constantly solitary, hunched over PC screen in a darkened room, subsisting off noodles and other things you can eat at your desk.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Michael on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:15:48
I imagined you precisely as one of those guys, tp. Constantly solitary, hunched over PC screen in a darkened room, subsisting off noodles and other things you can eat at your desk.


You forgot to add 'who also doesn't have an ergo-dox'.


:P
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: 127001 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 16:33:57
Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.

Any Apple product?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 27 November 2013, 17:23:33
Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.

Any Apple product?

Apple used to have a gaming console, but that was many years ago.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: 127001 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 17:51:33
No I know that, but what I mean is that Apple fits that description exactly. Uniform hardware and controlled software
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 27 November 2013, 18:11:21
No I know that, but what I mean is that Apple fits that description exactly. Uniform hardware and controlled software

Are you referring to the Mac, or to Apple tv?

Both would fit, I guess.

All they need to do is enable iOS games on the Apple tv and bingo!
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Wildcard on Wed, 27 November 2013, 18:58:18
PC MASTER RACE CHECKING IN.

XBOX GLORIFIED NETFLIX STREAMER

Quote
But let's just put aside the PS4 vs XBone competition for now and just look at these numbers as a whole. Both consoles set new records for sales compared to previous generations at launch. What does that mean? It's simple really. Console gaming is not on the decline. Quite the contrary.

lil wayne sells millions of albums. doesn't mean he's good. just means there are a lot of dumb mother****ers out there.

Growing up I had a PC but always wanted Nintendo consoles for Mario games. IMO there wasn't a PC platformer that could compare, at the time. Of course, there weren't games like Day of the Tentacle for consoles, so it wasn't one-sided in the least. Different strengths, different strokes, whatever. This may be less and less so, especially this generation with consoles and PCs sharing the same architecture, but the exclusives to certain consoles still exist.

I just bought a wii u for my son for x-mas. But truthfully, I probably bought it for myself :)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: paicrai on Thu, 28 November 2013, 04:44:35
I imagined you precisely as one of those guys, tp. Constantly solitary, hunched over PC screen in a darkened room, subsisting off noodles and other things you can eat at your desk.


You forgot to add 'who also doesn't have an ergo-dox'.


:P

That shivered his timbers for sure.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: davkol on Fri, 29 November 2013, 05:15:06
http://doctorbeet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html

Does anyone actually think Microsoft is any different?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: quickcrx702 on Fri, 29 November 2013, 05:29:24
Consoles are better for kids who you don't want touching your PC, or a group of people drinking beer sharing one device using multiple controllers.  PCs are better for pretty much everything else.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Sat, 30 November 2013, 13:54:27
Well, PC gaming isn't "dead," but it's certainly been seriously wounded several times in the last several years, with signs of continuing that trend. Look at all the previously potential-packed IP that got ruined by whatever corporate gaming conglomerate (coughEAcough). Look at all the "smash'n'grab," half-assed, heavily monetized (read: fragmented and compartmentalized; you buy a vanilla base game and then each chunk costs more...) crap out there. Look at all the over-hyped, glorified benchmarks-masquerading-as-games (crysis, bf4, etc.).

PC gaming as a thing that lots of people still do and enjoy, and intend to continue, isn't dead at all; the companies releasing most of the games are killing it, making it more and more difficult for anyone to buy a GOOD game, and get real, long-term fun out of it. "Back in the day," it used to be easy to get fun out of a game. Now it's a lot of work! (and costs ridiculous amounts of money just to have hardware that can even take advantage of all the wonderful new eye-candy without hitching or stuttering)

Moving on...

Consoles are "good," for one primary reason: they are standardized and optimized, and everything made for them is made *specifically* for them and their unchanging hardware, and is done without the resource overhead of an operating system like Windows (too bad no directX anywhere but windows and consoles!), or the problems that come with a wide spectrum of different hardware in each machine.

Also, i think (think!) the reason they still use removable disc media, is more about control, DRM, and... well i forgot the other factor i was going to mention, but it's mostly this. It might be partially due to convention as well (people are used to it), but it's mostly those other things; you can't have people easily toting around 100s of GB worth of games on several USB 3.0 portable SSD-sticks, and a cloud service with user accounts so you can take your games anywhere there's a console to play them. That would make too much sense, and would probably be crackable somehow. You can't download a physical disc, so the console's parent company can more easily and cheaply control who is allowed to access what, and ensure they're not getting screwed out of any profits by people (who likely feel they are the ones getting screwed!) sharing stuff without worrying about damaging it. Plus, having a physical item on a shelf in a physical store, allows them to exploit the art of consumer psychological manipulation through packaging, and the "oh! look! i must buy this now, since it's sitting right here and i can just take it home and play it immediately!" People are indeed suckers (especially those with heads full of fantasy who chase shiny things). But sometimes i wonder how much of a sucker we PC gaming enthusiasts are, since we spend thousands of dollars on hardware for which almost no game is ever properly optimized.

I like mods, and dislike lock-ins. Even with all the annoyances, PC gaming is still superior IMO. Doesn't mean i hate anyone who opts for consoles. I can certainly see some valid reasons to do so, but those reasons aren't enough for me.

Xbone and PS4 might be "just a crappy PC inside," but at least they don't require tens of gigs worth of bloatware that tries to consume all available ram, just to enable directX gaming (coughWINDOWScough). PC gaming would be far better if directX didn't require windows, and/or if there was a competitive non-windows alternative (afaik, OpenGL isn't good enough, for various reasons... but i'm no expert in that regard; i would like to be wrong!).
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:11:23
The overhead used by Windows in regard to games is absolutely minimal to the point where has zero impact how on games perform (which are primarily limited by your GPU, not background CPU cycles and memory allocation). Also, using all available memory is a good thing and makes your PC perform faster.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:22:06
The overhead used by Windows in regard to games is absolutely minimal to the point where has zero impact how on games perform (which are primarily limited by your GPU, not background CPU cycles and memory allocation). Also, using all available memory is a good thing and makes your PC perform faster.

1. not exactly, but it's not really worth debating.
2. only if the thing i actually want to do next is cached in ram; when it's full of something else, then it has to free the ram first, then do what i wanted it to do.

Also: windows is expensive; i don't want to pay $200 just for trim support. I don't need anything else that isn't in Vista. (perhaps your "overhead" comment does not apply to vista? in which case i would see more value in an upgrade... but would still not be happy about having to buy windows again, just to make it work right)

Start adding up the hundreds required to maintain a snappy system, or upgrade hardware every year or two... the cost surpasses consoles easily, but with questionable gains.

My 1090t@3.6, 2x4GB 1866 ram(@1800), and gtx590 (cpu/gpus on water), should be more than adequate; yet it isn't quite good enough to mirror the smooth performance of a recent console, and to build a new system would easily cost more than a console, unless i buy cheap (and possibly end up buying twice as a result).

The big difference, obviously, is that a PC can do a whole lot of other cool stuff that a console can't (some of which they can be made to do with special provisions).


Perhaps it's time for me to cut the cord and drop windows, opting instead for a modest linux box and a console?

Or maybe i should sell it all and buy a nice tent and some survival gear, and disappear into the wilderness...
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: digi on Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:49:50
Well, PC gaming isn't "dead," but it's certainly been seriously wounded.....

I share a similar outlook on the topic of pc gaming, just out of curiosity, what game(s) are you playing now if any?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:54:57
Clearly consoles are better than PC's becasue they have all the best games and run at all the best settings. Don't have to worry about frame-rate and changing my AA or resolution settings becasue my console runs everything at max at 1080p. PC gamers are desperate for there platform not to be dead, but it already is. Valve's new console that's on the horizon is the final play in the console's battle.

In the end Nintendo always win.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 30 November 2013, 15:32:15
I think we will start seeing the end of poorly/un-optimized console ports. Since as far as I understand it xbox os is based on same minwin core/directx api (or at least close enough) as Windows 8, and with hardware target x86-64 CPU with slow clock and a low/mid range GPU. they would have to **** up spectacularly for any Windows versions of upcoming games to not run just as good as or better than the console version. There should be very little that needs to be done in comparison to before. No architecture change from PPC, no need to make different versions for different newer generations of directx... Personally I hope they don't pander to crap 5 generation old PC hardware and keep the minimum specs to PC part equivalents of the console hardware. With XP support ending in 2014, I can only hope all the game devs go along with that too.
I want to see nothing but x64 games from then on, with all the benefits that come with it, like not being locked down to 3GB of memory.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 01 December 2013, 09:10:50
Clearly consoles are better than PC's becasue they have all the best games and run at all the best settings. Don't have to worry about frame-rate and changing my AA or resolution settings becasue my console runs everything at max at 1080p. PC gamers are desperate for there platform not to be dead, but it already is. Valve's new console that's on the horizon is the final play in the console's battle.

In the end Nintendo always win.

Can't tell if srs, I hope it's not. Obviously consoles don't play everything at max, they play it at whatever the developers decide is the optimum setting for the hardware, which is usually somewhere between low and medium compared to the PC version. Dropping framerates is still at issue with consoles - which tend to have a lower framerate to begin with, exacerbating the problem. The only thing is, since you can't change the settings you have no control over the tradeoff between graphics/framerate like you do with a PC.

I'm not sure how you can claim that PC gaming is dead when y'know basic facts would indicate otherwise. For instance, comparing sales of multi-format titles (i.e. virtually all of them these days) on the PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 over the last several years, the PC has consistently sold the most copies of the three.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 December 2013, 09:43:51
Clearly consoles are better than PC's becasue they have all the best games and run at all the best settings. Don't have to worry about frame-rate and changing my AA or resolution settings becasue my console runs everything at max at 1080p. PC gamers are desperate for there platform not to be dead, but it already is. Valve's new console that's on the horizon is the final play in the console's battle.

In the end Nintendo always win.

Can't tell if srs, I hope it's not. Obviously consoles don't play everything at max, they play it at whatever the developers decide is the optimum setting for the hardware, which is usually somewhere between low and medium compared to the PC version. Dropping framerates is still at issue with consoles - which tend to have a lower framerate to begin with, exacerbating the problem. The only thing is, since you can't change the settings you have no control over the tradeoff between graphics/framerate like you do with a PC.

I'm not sure how you can claim that PC gaming is dead when y'know basic facts would indicate otherwise. For instance, comparing sales of multi-format titles (i.e. virtually all of them these days) on the PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 over the last several years, the PC has consistently sold the most copies of the three.

I knew someone would bite, something the OP thought when making this hilariously stupid thread.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 01 December 2013, 11:13:13
Well don't I feel foolish.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Mon, 02 December 2013, 14:54:50
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?

You said in your first post that "everything would be better with a real PC, with an SSD, a real video card, and a real keyboard, which all can be had for ~ $750 (USD), which is cheaper than Xbox 1."

No it isn't. If you want a proper gaming PC that will last you for more than a few years, you're looking at over $1000.

What makes consoles special is the experience and the exclusive titles. I game on both PS and PC, and there are certain games I'll play for each platform. All of my FPS gaming is done on PC, yet my platform games, I don't know, like Assassins Creed are all done on PS.

This whole hating on console or hating on PC thing is getting real old. Real gamers don't give a crap, and they will usually be on two or three different platforms.

On a "budget" gaming PC, yes you'll be able to play Battlefield 4 and Crysis 3, but it will look like crap. Your PC will have whole world of problems with overheating, etc. that it's not even worth it. So to the people who can't afford a high end gaming PC, then get a console. Not to mention the fact that most FPS games are riddled with cheaters on PC. Stuff like that very rarely, if ever, happens on console. Everyone is playing on the same level so I kind of like that a lot.

Yes I like my PC more and do all of my serious gaming on it, but those people who tell others to just get a budget PC are missing the point.  Get a console rather than a budget PC, if all you want to do is play games on it. Because like I said, who wants to play Battlefield 4 on medium/low settings? What's the point?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 02 December 2013, 16:27:25
I don't think I agree.  Doesn't matter what the hardware is.  A console is not a PC, they serve different roles.

The first Xbox actually WAS a PC inside.  It was a console, not a PC.

Consoles are standardized hardware that run a pre-selected, approved set of software.  They cater to families, casual gamers, and only partially to hardcore gamers.  They don't have keyboards, or mice, or user-facing OS-level features.  They about delivering specific content to everybody the same way.

So these days the hardware isn't unique.  Not surprising.  It's the software and the infrastructure that makes the platform.

Actually this is pretty depressing.  To me, you are describing an Orwellian nightmare-box, all they need to do is add a spycam that peeps into your living room for the NSA and it really is a big brother tube, they already mine your data and read your emails, so why not, I guess.

Also if the new Xbox costs more than a budget gaming PC, why bother with it?

You said in your first post that "everything would be better with a real PC, with an SSD, a real video card, and a real keyboard, which all can be had for ~ $750 (USD), which is cheaper than Xbox 1."

No it isn't. If you want a proper gaming PC that will last you for more than a few years, you're looking at over $1000.

What makes consoles special is the experience and the exclusive titles. I game on both PS and PC, and there are certain games I'll play for each platform. All of my FPS gaming is done on PC, yet my platform games, I don't know, like Assassins Creed are all done on PS.

This whole hating on console or hating on PC thing is getting real old. Real gamers don't give a crap, and they will usually be on two or three different platforms.

On a "budget" gaming PC, yes you'll be able to play Battlefield 4 and Crysis 3, but it will look like crap. Your PC will have whole world of problems with overheating, etc. that it's not even worth it. So to the people who can't afford a high end gaming PC, then get a console. Not to mention the fact that most FPS games are riddled with cheaters on PC. Stuff like that very rarely, if ever, happens on console. Everyone is playing on the same level so I kind of like that a lot.

Yes I like my PC more and do all of my serious gaming on it, but those people who tell others to just get a budget PC are missing the point.  Get a console rather than a budget PC, if all you want to do is play games on it. Because like I said, who wants to play Battlefield 4 on medium/low settings? What's the point?

I would have to agree with this post wholeheartedly.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: McWilloughby on Tue, 03 December 2013, 12:18:59
I think one thing worth noting with regards to price is this:

Assume a console costs ~Ģ400. So consumer X buys the newest console (they already have a TV, sound system, whatever) and on top of that they get a basic (rubbish) laptop for ~Ģ350. After 2 years, they decide the laptop needs replacing and so they buy another Ģ350 laptop (plenty of people do this, most the people I build computers for now are people that have been doing this for years only to realise they're effectively spending more money). Pretend this console has a lifespan of 6 years (pretty fair considering the 360 came out in 2005). Consumer X replaces their laptop twice in the lifetime of the console so in total they've spent Ģ1,450 in 6 years.

Consumer Y looks at the internet and finds out how to build his computer (or he gets a friend to do it at an extra cost of Ģ50 or a custom builder for ~Ģ100). Their parts come to the cost of Ģ882.90 in the first year, the specs are shown here so you can see if you agree with me: (http://i.imgur.com/WsP9yrR.png) I think this is a fairly reasonable mid range build (they already have a monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers/headpohones). After 3 years, they decide to upgrade the graphics card to a newer model, +Ģ250 and add another 8 GB of RAM lets say for Ģ40 (though I'd say that is a fairly high estimate) and keep the computer for another 3 years. Sure, by the end of the 6 years, it's flagging a little bit but it still cost them Ģ277.10 less than what the console guy spent (not counting the fact that PC games are generally cheaper). If they'd spend that extra Ģ277.10 they could've used the change to start with an i7 and a GTX 780 (or whatever other hardware combinations you want).

I think the "cost" argument is a moot point. It's not unreasonable to own and use a gaming PC for 6 years (I've owned mine for that long with minor upgrades along the way). All it requires is a larger initial investment and a little research which is presumably the reason people buy consoles in the first place: because it's easy.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Tue, 03 December 2013, 12:37:17
Because it's easy and has exclusive titles. God of War III alone sold more than 6 million copies. That's a damn lot of people who missed out on PC.

Like I said before, most serious gamers are on multiple platforms. But yes, buying a laptop every 2-3 years is a complete waste.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:10:14
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:17:38
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..

Nothing in this world is free.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:23:16
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..

Nothing in this world is free.

what about sunlight..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:25:37
costs you the risk of skin cancer
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:28:23
costs you the risk of skin cancer


No??
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Tym on Wed, 04 December 2013, 07:51:12
costs you the risk of skin cancer
No??

Yes.

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:07:53
I PC game but whenever a new console is released, I buy all the good games on the previous console. I bought maybe 20 fantastic ps3 games at $10 a pop. Totally worth it for someone who doesn't buy them new. Red Dead Redemption was like 6 bucks.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:10:08
And that's such a fantastic game.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:12:22
The new Xbox 1 turns out to be a crappy PC under the hood.

Wow, the xbox 1 is a computer? What a shocking revelation....

Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:16:28
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..

Some might argue piracy is killing PC gaming actually. Developers would rather their games not be pirated, and hence more and more games are console exclusive.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Thu, 05 December 2013, 21:18:30
The new Xbox 1 turns out to be a crappy PC under the hood.

Wow, the xbox 1 is a computer? What a shocking revelation....

 :))
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Thu, 05 December 2013, 21:23:56
I PC game but whenever a new console is released, I buy all the good games on the previous console. I bought maybe 20 fantastic ps3 games at $10 a pop. Totally worth it for someone who doesn't buy them new. Red Dead Redemption was like 6 bucks.

RDR was the game to bring me back to consoles. Nothing like hunting bobcats with friends.

and when i say bring me back, i mean that's the only game i own. and gta V.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 December 2013, 22:05:13
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..

Some might argue piracy is killing PC gaming actually. Developers would rather their games not be pirated, and hence more and more games are console exclusive.

piracy is the death to the original business model.. not gaming on the PC.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 03:53:41
A keyboard isn't a device optimized for gaming. It's silly to think that a keyboard is superior to a joystick.
Then again, if I had the equipment I'd just plug in a controller to a PC.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Tym on Fri, 06 December 2013, 04:00:38
A keyboard isn't a device optimized for gaming. It's silly to think that a keyboard is superior to a joystick.
Then again, if I had the equipment I'd just plug in a controller to a PC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Official-Microsoft-Xbox-360-PC-Black-Glossy-Wired-Controller-UD-S9F-00001-/131044761044?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item1e82e05dd4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Official-Microsoft-Xbox-360-PC-Black-Glossy-Wired-Controller-UD-S9F-00001-/131044761044?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item1e82e05dd4)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Candyflip on Fri, 06 December 2013, 04:06:21
A keyboard isn't a device optimized for gaming. It's silly to think that a keyboard is superior to a joystick.
Then again, if I had the equipment I'd just plug in a controller to a PC.
I never actually got used to any controllers and believe me I tried a lot of them, any fps game I played is simply better to play with mouse and keyboard same goes for  any rts/moba game I played. On the other side there are many rpgs that are better played on joystick, it depends on the type of the game rather than the peripheral imo.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 06 December 2013, 04:10:53
yeah,it depends, i think to play FPS should use keyboard
 i usually always play with keyboard :p
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 04:27:16
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Tym on Fri, 06 December 2013, 04:32:34
Plug it into the USB port, go to xbox.com and download The drivers.  Or Google 360 controller drivers.

Has to be a wired controller not a wireless with a play and charge kit.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 06 December 2013, 06:39:39
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Candyflip on Fri, 06 December 2013, 06:52:11
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.
you might want to check this out: http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 06 December 2013, 07:07:10
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

Linkb.. u trollin' us?

Pc gamrz have been dominating the FPS arena for years...

Since you do not know this.. I imagine you must be a good student and have a great relationship with your parents.. in place of playing tons of video games to escape...

Kudos..(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_113_.gif)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 06 December 2013, 07:35:28
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.
you might want to check this out: http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

I know the article. The average PC player will absolutely humiliate the average console player. That's not up for debate. I was talking about comfort. That said, there are some really fantastic console gamers out there with deadly accuracy and skill.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Candyflip on Fri, 06 December 2013, 08:03:03
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.
you might want to check this out: http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

I know the article. The average PC player will absolutely humiliate the average console player. That's not up for debate. I was talking about comfort. That said, there are some really fantastic console gamers out there with deadly accuracy and skill.
I agree with you 100% and I believe it is a personal preference of what are you using, even both.
Also have to add that I pretty much enjoy more console games when with friends while playing some Sport (fifa/nba) games rather than grinding the campaign of a single player game alone.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 06 December 2013, 08:07:41
A keyboard isn't a device optimized for gaming. It's silly to think that a keyboard is superior to a joystick.
Then again, if I had the equipment I'd just plug in a controller to a PC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Official-Microsoft-Xbox-360-PC-Black-Glossy-Wired-Controller-UD-S9F-00001-/131044761044?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item1e82e05dd4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Official-Microsoft-Xbox-360-PC-Black-Glossy-Wired-Controller-UD-S9F-00001-/131044761044?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item1e82e05dd4)
"EXTRA 5% OFF WHEN YOU SPEND $100 OR MORE"

I pooped myself when I saw that.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Fri, 06 December 2013, 09:54:35
PC gaming will never die.. simply because Piracy...

You can't compete with free...

So you go more/less f2p.. and then leverage the game as an advertising platform..

Some might argue piracy is killing PC gaming actually. Developers would rather their games not be pirated, and hence more and more games are console exclusive.

piracy is the death to the original business model.. not gaming on the PC.

The original business model is fundamental - developing a game and then selling it for money. This is like everything else (bread, automobiles, televisions, the hardware itself). This produces an ideal product. Now companies are forced to implement always-online DRM or have in-game advertisements. Do you enjoy these things? I do not.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:01:47
I don't understand why console games can't use a mouse and keyboard. I mean, sure it would give an unfair advantage, but isn't that an indication of the superiority of that controller setup?

I basically avoid FPS's on the console like the plague (unless they are console exclusive) for this reason. It really sucks, since consoles have the distinct advantage of having the games being optimized for the hardware, and not vice versa.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:02:56
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.

So remap your keys?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:06:19
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.

So remap your keys?

Or buy one of those gaming mice with a dozen buttons on it.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Candyflip on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:07:16
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.

So remap your keys?

Or buy one of those gaming mice with a dozen buttons on it.
In my experience every single one of those sucked.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:14:01
I can't find my way around a controller for FPS. I could never get the right sensitivity and the lack of remapping(well compared to pc) sucks. I also found it more tiresome having my hands so close together.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:28:24
I can't find my way around a controller for FPS. I could never get the right sensitivity and the lack of remapping(well compared to pc) sucks. I also found it more tiresome having my hands so close together.

I was like that way at first. What I did was start with a slower paced game. In my case, it was Killzone 2. I set mine to about 20% sensitivity, then finished the game that way. Mind you, it was easier said than done. I couldn't aim if my life depended on it. Yet slowly over time, it got better, and I kept increasing the sensitivity until it got to around 30%. Now, I could go higher, but there's just no need, especially if you're playing as a sniper or something, the scope sway will be impossible to control if you have it set at like 50%. Around 25% is the sweet spot.

Took me about a month to get used to it in total, and now it just feels very comfortable.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 11:29:33
I can't find my way around a controller for FPS. I could never get the right sensitivity and the lack of remapping(well compared to pc) sucks. I also found it more tiresome having my hands so close together.

I was like that way at first. What I did was start with a slower paced game. In my case, it was Killzone 2. I set mine to about 20% sensitivity, then finished the game that way. Mind you, it was easier said than done. I couldn't aim if my life depended on it. Yet slowly over time, it got better, and I kept increasing the sensitivity until it got to around 30%. Now, I could go higher, but there's just no need, especially if you're playing as a sniper or something, the scope sway will be impossible to control if you have it set at like 50%. Around 25% is the sweet spot.

Took me about a month to get used to it in total, and now it just feels very comfortable.

Sensitivity is so finnicky with people. I know people who play at 20/30% sensitivity, while after playing SWAT in Halo extensively, I've found myself most comfortable with 80%. I'm not too accurate with high DPS mice, though.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 06 December 2013, 11:43:30
Well, it kind of changes depending on the game. For a slower FPS like Killzone, I'll have it set to around 30-35%. For something faster, like Battlefield, I'll have it set to 25%, so I'm not completely thrown off when I pick up a sniper rifle.

On PC, my DPI is set to 4000, which I bump down to around 2000 if I'm sniping. That's why I love the RAT 7 so much, the "aim" button is placed perfectly, so I had that set to 800 DPI when I was in my scope. Let go and I was back at 4000 DPI.

It's just a matter of experimenting with whatever works best for you, as everyone is different. But as with everything, it's always good to start slow and gradually increase speed. I know guys who play Battlefield with 100% sensitivity on the Dualshock 3, and it's absolutely crazy. I tried it once and couldn't do anything.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 12:26:38
Well, it kind of changes depending on the game. For a slower FPS like Killzone, I'll have it set to around 30-35%. For something faster, like Battlefield, I'll have it set to 25%, so I'm not completely thrown off when I pick up a sniper rifle.

On PC, my DPI is set to 4000, which I bump down to around 2000 if I'm sniping. That's why I love the RAT 7 so much, the "aim" button is placed perfectly, so I had that set to 800 DPI when I was in my scope. Let go and I was back at 4000 DPI.

It's just a matter of experimenting with whatever works best for you, as everyone is different. But as with everything, it's always good to start slow and gradually increase speed. I know guys who play Battlefield with 100% sensitivity on the Dualshock 3, and it's absolutely crazy. I tried it once and couldn't do anything.

Really now? Unlike console when you can flick very quickly at low dps, on console a lower sensitivity is unable to be as fast, which loses kills. AFAIK most pro players play at 4-5, with very few lower and a few higher. On SWAT, though, the extra speed really helps because you need to flick to very small areas very quickly. Good players, even like me, can headshot with the first or occasionally the second shot on-sight, and the higher sensitivity helps.

I guess my sensitivity is unusually high, but I haven't had issues controlling it. On console, though, a 3200 dps works pretty well for me, and I switch to something like a 400 dps when sniping (M95 has a nice button for it).
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 16:24:44
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

Linkb.. u trollin' us?

Pc gamrz have been dominating the FPS arena for years...

Since you do not know this.. I imagine you must be a good student and have a great relationship with your parents.. in place of playing tons of video games to escape...

Kudos..
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_113_.gif)


Hah, I'm neither of those things.
Of course PC gamers have been dominating, you can do things with a mouse that are impossible on a joystick. Joysticks are limited by their maximum angulation, whereas mice can be flicked around like whatever. Personally, though, I feel much more engaged crouching, aiming, and shooting on a controller that has some simulation (and also force feedback, which we don't talk about much) of using a weapon. Pulling a trigger on a controller just seems more fun than clicking, if you can get where I'm going.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 06 December 2013, 17:03:15
You could always get one of those mice :))
(http://www.marnscda.com/PistolMouse0610u-sm.jpg)

I've always hated gamepad controller ever since NES days. I even use keyboard mouse on racing games now since mechanical keyboard. I find keyboard and mouse steering much more precise than game pads and have been able to do turns much easier without downshift/brake (drift) so much. The only game genre where I don't favor keyboard is with fighting games like Mortal Kombat where I would rather use arcade but I seldom play those much anymore, and some platformer type
(http://www.akihabaranews.com/wp-content/uploads//images/8/88/54888/1.jpg)
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: alosec on Fri, 06 December 2013, 17:51:44
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 22:16:57
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.

No, it really isn't. Could we at least attempt for this to not become another circlejerk PC master race thread?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 06 December 2013, 22:21:45
Yeah. I mean I take my gaming seriously, no matter the platform. I'm on PC and PS3. And I take my God of War very seriously, thank you very much.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eth0s on Fri, 06 December 2013, 22:32:07
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.

No, it really isn't. Could we at least attempt for this to not become another circlejerk PC master race thread?

I think alosec is saying that the best gamers gravitate to PC games, while people who are not as good gravitate more toward consoles.  That is my experience as well.  Lag, server glitches, bad players (make that horribad players), and annoying little kids under 12, are much more frequently encountered with console gaming than PC gaming.  Another thing, have you ever been to an Xbox lan-party? They're not fun.  Unfun, if that is a word.

(http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/20060330/Halo2_Lan.jpg)



Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 06 December 2013, 22:36:03
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.

No, it really isn't. Could we at least attempt for this to not become another circlejerk PC master race thread?

I think alosec is saying that the best gamers gravitate to PC games, while people who are not as good gravitate more toward consoles.  That is my experience as well.  Lag, server glitches, bad players (make that horribad players), and annoying little kids under 12, are much more frequently encountered with console gaming than PC gaming.  Another thing, have you ever been to an Xbox lan-party? They're not fun.  Unfun, if that is a word.

Show Image
(http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/20060330/Halo2_Lan.jpg)


Psh, I play Super Smash Bros. Melee fests weekly. Console LAN parties aren't that fun because someone's getting killed, but honestly PC gaming seems a lot more toxic than XBL, at least. You might have whiny kids, but at least you don't have HoN-level people trying to make your life hell if you're starting a game.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 07 December 2013, 05:19:43
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.
Except it's not and it's actually much more complex than that.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 December 2013, 07:10:21
People that care about their games and want to optimize it to be the best possible: PC

People that want something to take their free time occasionally: Xbox/PS

it's that simple.

No, it really isn't. Could we at least attempt for this to not become another circlejerk PC master race thread?

I think alosec is saying that the best gamers gravitate to PC games, while people who are not as good gravitate more toward consoles.  That is my experience as well.  Lag, server glitches, bad players (make that horribad players), and annoying little kids under 12, are much more frequently encountered with console gaming than PC gaming.  Another thing, have you ever been to an Xbox lan-party? They're not fun.  Unfun, if that is a word.

Show Image
(http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/20060330/Halo2_Lan.jpg)


Psh, I play Super Smash Bros. Melee fests weekly. Console LAN parties aren't that fun because someone's getting killed, but honestly PC gaming seems a lot more toxic than XBL, at least. You might have whiny kids, but at least you don't have HoN-level people trying to make your life hell if you're starting a game.

When I was in school. I stopped going to those parties when the smashbros crowd of people stopped showering in the middle of the school year for "some reason"..

They just stopped.... I don't know why... I ended up doing alot more drinking... In many ways I blame them for all the excessive drinking... because they took smashbros away from me.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: eisenhower on Tue, 10 December 2013, 16:44:13
Really now? I felt that FPS games were more natural on joystick, while RPG/RTS/most other things are good on computer.
And Tym, haha. I have the controller, just have to figure out how to hook it up to my laptop.

I kind of agree with this. In the past, I've strictly played FPS' with a keyboard and mouse, because I just couldn't get used to them on controllers. But after a lot of training and time, and by gradually boosting the sensitivity, I am now good with a controller.. maybe even better than with a keyboard and mouse. It just feels more natural to have your hands closer together without having to reach around for a lot of stuff. Everything is right there under your fingers.

So remap your keys?

Or buy one of those gaming mice with a dozen buttons on it.
In my experience every single one of those sucked.

If you're used to lush mechanical switches, I suppose you might think so. But they work fine.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: C5Allroad on Tue, 10 December 2013, 20:47:44
I am just looking forward to hopefully less lazy 'ports' to Windows since it's all x86-64 now.
I really do hope Microsoft will port Forza one day.... But since it's a xbox seller it won't ever be released to PC.... I can dream can't I?
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 10 December 2013, 21:41:28
I am just looking forward to hopefully less lazy 'ports' to Windows since it's all x86-64 now.
I really do hope Microsoft will port Forza one day.... But since it's a xbox seller it won't ever be released to PC.... I can dream can't I?

The only advantage of porting Forza to PC would be better graphics.. but that is non-essential to the game.. because the main forte' of forza is the physics sim.. and that doesn't really benefit from a port to PC, a faster processor really won't help the simple calculations involved. (relative to modern processors)..

So yea.. I don't see why it needs to be ported. It plays fine on xbox..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 11 December 2013, 10:00:23
I am just looking forward to hopefully less lazy 'ports' to Windows since it's all x86-64 now.
I really do hope Microsoft will port Forza one day.... But since it's a xbox seller it won't ever be released to PC.... I can dream can't I?

The only advantage of porting Forza to PC would be better graphics.. but that is non-essential to the game.. because the main forte' of forza is the physics sim.. and that doesn't really benefit from a port to PC, a faster processor really won't help the simple calculations involved. (relative to modern processors)..

So yea.. I don't see why it needs to be ported. It plays fine on xbox..

While I would agree that physics calculations can be simple for simple operations but the calculations for a racing/physics sim are neither simple nor quick to calculate.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 11 December 2013, 10:06:02
I am just looking forward to hopefully less lazy 'ports' to Windows since it's all x86-64 now.
I really do hope Microsoft will port Forza one day.... But since it's a xbox seller it won't ever be released to PC.... I can dream can't I?

The only advantage of porting Forza to PC would be better graphics.. but that is non-essential to the game.. because the main forte' of forza is the physics sim.. and that doesn't really benefit from a port to PC, a faster processor really won't help the simple calculations involved. (relative to modern processors)..

So yea.. I don't see why it needs to be ported. It plays fine on xbox..

While I would agree that physics calculations can be simple for simple operations but the calculations for a racing/physics sim are neither simple nor quick to calculate.

well, I'm not downplaying the difficulty in creation or importance of the physic sim..

I'm just saying relative to modern processors.. the sim portion of the game wouldn't bottleneck most multi-cores.
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Wed, 11 December 2013, 19:09:16
[EA_rant]

Give back my PC-Madden!!! (or at the very least, make an official facemask/gear/texture update patch for '08, and let us buy it for $10...)

It really, Really bothers me, that EA already has all these "next gen" assets developed and optimized for 360/one/ps3/ps4, but they keep acting like modern gaming PC's wouldn't be able to handle the engine... Meanwhile, BF4. BF4! Do i even need to say anything else? FFS that game... looks really nice, but even my 1090t@3.6 and gtx590 (both on custom loop w/ a phobya 1080 external radiator) can barely handle it. I find it very difficult to believe that Madden "25" (aka 13... or is it 14 now?) would be "too much" for a modern gaming rig. Surely with a relatively small environment and significantly fewer concurrent players, it would work just fine.

Then again, take a look at the new Sim City. Looks great, but even that hitches a bit on max settings. The Sims 3 is like that but even worse. I've seen countless posts of people rocking i7's and 690's still having issues w/ Sims 3.

Clearly, EA doesn't mind putting out games that barely perform acceptably on modern gaming rigs. So why make the "performance" excuse for Madden?

EA blames "piracy" for refusing to release Madden on PC, but then, why are they still producing other games? Can they not figure out some kind of acceptable DRM scheme for madden? I find that difficult to believe, and i refuse to accept that answer as valid.

Performance excuses are BS. Piracy excuse is BS. Plenty of people would love to play (and more importantly: purchase) the newer madden on PC, so "low sales" is also BS. Plus! they're already making revenue from those very same assets on all the consoles! So whether or not PC "has low sales" should not even be an issue; profit is profit, and having customers that don't hate you, is something i would think every company wants... and the resources already exist. All they would have to do is use the same resources, but reconfigure those already-existing resources, to function on typical modern PC architecture. Surely that would not cost EA more than they would make by doing it. I would be willing to Wager that they would sell at least 1 million copies of a new Madden for PC. That's not much compared to the super-hyped shooters, but it's still a lot. It's still enough to justify doing it, even if "some people" end up pirating it.

And they wonder why they get voted "worst company in america."

It is quite clear to me that EA will do whatever it takes to maximize their profits, for every single other game they sell. Why not Madden for PC? They don't even have a good excuse.

[/EA_rant]
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 11 December 2013, 19:32:45
[EA_rant]

Give back my PC-Madden!!! (or at the very least, make an official facemask/gear/texture update patch for '08, and let us buy it for $10...)

It really, Really bothers me, that EA already has all these "next gen" assets developed and optimized for 360/one/ps3/ps4, but they keep acting like modern gaming PC's wouldn't be able to handle the engine... Meanwhile, BF4. BF4! Do i even need to say anything else? FFS that game... looks really nice, but even my 1090t@3.6 and gtx590 (both on custom loop w/ a phobya 1080 external radiator) can barely handle it. I find it very difficult to believe that Madden "25" (aka 13... or is it 14 now?) would be "too much" for a modern gaming rig. Surely with a relatively small environment and significantly fewer concurrent players, it would work just fine.

Then again, take a look at the new Sim City. Looks great, but even that hitches a bit on max settings. The Sims 3 is like that but even worse. I've seen countless posts of people rocking i7's and 690's still having issues w/ Sims 3.

Clearly, EA doesn't mind putting out games that barely perform acceptably on modern gaming rigs. So why make the "performance" excuse for Madden?

EA blames "piracy" for refusing to release Madden on PC, but then, why are they still producing other games? Can they not figure out some kind of acceptable DRM scheme for madden? I find that difficult to believe, and i refuse to accept that answer as valid.

Performance excuses are BS. Piracy excuse is BS. Plenty of people would love to play (and more importantly: purchase) the newer madden on PC, so "low sales" is also BS. Plus! they're already making revenue from those very same assets on all the consoles! So whether or not PC "has low sales" should not even be an issue; profit is profit, and having customers that don't hate you, is something i would think every company wants... and the resources already exist. All they would have to do is use the same resources, but reconfigure those already-existing resources, to function on typical modern PC architecture. Surely that would not cost EA more than they would make by doing it. I would be willing to Wager that they would sell at least 1 million copies of a new Madden for PC. That's not much compared to the super-hyped shooters, but it's still a lot. It's still enough to justify doing it, even if "some people" end up pirating it.

And they wonder why they get voted "worst company in america."

It is quite clear to me that EA will do whatever it takes to maximize their profits, for every single other game they sell. Why not Madden for PC? They don't even have a good excuse.

[/EA_rant]

I maintain american football games suck...  it plays itself, you're not really even part of the game..
Title: Re: PC Gaming is NOT Dead - the new Xbox is just a crappy PC on the inside.
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:48:34
I maintain american football games suck...  it plays itself, you're not really even part of the game..

Idk what game you're playing, but i distinctly remember being "in the game," as the most crucial part of the game, due to making countless decisions which significantly impacted the performance of my team. Sure, if you'd rather let the Madden AI call your plays for you, you can do that... but if you're into that, you might as well just use the "sim game" option, set the controller down and watch. And if you're gonna do that... you might as well just not buy it, not play it, and wait for sunday/monday/thursday, and watch real football.

I prefer playing the game and controlling the players. But i don't get to do that now, because EA is a bunch of censored expletives!

And if football ain't your thing, look what they've done to the Need For Speed series!

Football Sports, racing, shooters... Sims... they ruin everything! If PC gaming does end up dead, i'm going to blame EA more than anyone else.