Is that plate flat? What does it use for a PCB?Yep, flat - at the moment. The right tool for putting a curve in it is a slip roll. A local sheet metal shops should have one. A less elegant option would be to use a bending break. Harbor Freight has an 18" one for under $50. The PCB will be new. Matrix and controller will be together just like the original.
the harbor freight brake is crap (naturally). slip rolls are getting somewhat rare, i've found. you will probably need the plate stamped before it gets rolled though right? i'm like 90% sure that IMS has a slip roll, and will do fairly short runs. for the stamping you need a die machined. that's kind of a pain.I don't think it needs to be stamped at all. I'm locking the top to the bottom plate using bolts instead of tabs, so i don't need to turn the edges down. I'll use 10 bolts very near where the 10 tabs were, to it should maintain the feel.
I'm locking the top to the bottom plate using bolts instead of tabs, so i don't need to turn the edges down. I'll use 10 bolts very near where the 10 tabs were, to it should maintain the feel.
why not have the_beast's guy laser out the bolt holes then send it over to the slip roll shop? this would be basically plug and play, and his rates are extremely reasonable for 16ga 304
my understanding is that cold-roll's machinability is due to the fact that it's yielded once. for strength you'd want to slip roll hot-roll sheet. this would effectively give you cold-roll, but it could also distort the lasering you'd doing prior to rolling.why not have the_beast's guy laser out the bolt holes then send it over to the slip roll shop? this would be basically plug and play, and his rates are extremely reasonable for 16ga 304
That is exactly what i did. This plate is 18 gauge CRS. i thought it would be easier to roll and take paint better, but stainless would be an option. I'm just trying to find a local shop that will roll it for me. South Florida is full of HVAC shops. I wish i had more time during the day to call them all.
The top plate went through a slip roller at Merlin Industries (http://www.merlinindustries.net/). Thanks David! It took all of about 1 minute and 50 seconds of that was setting up the machine.
I'm planning on using the DPH controller for this. The guys developing this controller want it to work in all of the IBM model F boards that use a 30 pin ribbon cable to connect - 122, KishSaver, UnSaver, and AT. So all i have to do is add a 30 pin connector and get HaaTa to include it as an option. To that end, the XLS file has the "default" key assignments.
I neglected to embed the font used in the PDF attached to the OP. It is supposed to look 8-bit retro like this.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
... I would love a few different models, though. If there was one that could fit into existing/modified Model M cases would be one of my dream boards. If extra models are something that are possible, we could create Kishsaver reproductions and Model F Ergodoxes.
Also, how much extra work would this be? Would this be viable? I'm not sure how long it takes to design one of these PCBs and how production costs would be effected adding more things to create.
... I would love a few different models, though. If there was one that could fit into existing/modified Model M cases would be one of my dream boards. If extra models are something that are possible, we could create Kishsaver reproductions and Model F Ergodoxes.
Also, how much extra work would this be? Would this be viable? I'm not sure how long it takes to design one of these PCBs and how production costs would be effected adding more things to create.
That is my thoughts too. Designing a PCB for this type switch should be much easier than other types of switches because there are no switch contacts - just a couple of geometric shapes on the PCB and lining up the barrel plate just right. But it does come at a cost; sacrificing an XT or worse an AT or 122 for parts. If this works as I hope, we might be able to re-use the case, frame, and back plate of any model M, but we must find a new source of capacitive flippies.
so we don't suddenly have XTs selling for $150 because their valuable parts.
Any news?
Any news?This, I have XT coming on my way and I don't want it to end up as just a collection piece.
Top plate is done.
Controller is done (use DPH or xwhatsit)
I just finished making gerber files for a PCB and they are getting peer reviewed.
Then I'll order one (or more) to be professionally made. Anyone want to to buy 82 inches2 of an untested design?
Any news?
Mougrim!
I was wondering who necrobumped this important but esoteric thread and am pleased to see its you. So you're still alive! If Western propaganda is to believed most of Eastern Ukraine is now a wasteland of starving people!
Woah! Where did you buy, and how did you label those custom 1.25x navigation and arrow keys? Or were you able to convince Unicomp to dye sub them for you?
That is completely awesome.
Progress pictures.
(Attachment Link)
I was not able to bend down the leading and trailing edge on my custom top plate to create the tabs that normally keep Model F key assemblies together. The next two pictures show my method of keeping the top and bottom plates held tightly; binder clips. They are very low profile if you remove the "handles" (easy to take off and put back on). You can get a box of these for cheap at any office supply store. They probably will break about as often as Model M rivets, but would be a lot easier to replace.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
The binder clips alone keep the plates very tight. There is no wobble in the barrel at all. I'll use two bolts (right side of caps lock and left side of of backslash) to align the plates east/west/north/south.
That's great. I've asked for a few truly custom printed caps from them and was always shot down. When XTant is ready, maybe we can do a big group buy order from them to make it worth their while.
That's great. I've asked for a few truly custom printed caps from them and was always shot down. When XTant is ready, maybe we can do a big group buy order from them to make it worth their while.
As I understand, F1-F12 buttons are accessible through fn layer, but how exactly?
Gotta get some sick CNC cases!That's great. I've asked for a few truly custom printed caps from them and was always shot down. When XTant is ready, maybe we can do a big group buy order from them to make it worth their while.
Hmm... Anyone knows where we can order custom cases? I mean, why stop halfway? :)
Gotta get some sick CNC cases!That's great. I've asked for a few truly custom printed caps from them and was always shot down. When XTant is ready, maybe we can do a big group buy order from them to make it worth their while.
Hmm... Anyone knows where we can order custom cases? I mean, why stop halfway? :)
I recommend cutting down a shift key to make an "unstepped" function key for capslock.
You can't. This is the closest they have: Note the CTRL key is still stepped
Why cut shift key if you could get unstepped one from Unicomp?
You can't. This is the closest they have: Note the CTRL key is still stepped
Why cut shift key if you could get unstepped one from Unicomp?
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/CTCL
No they don't have a non-stepped capslock. That's why I advocate cutting up another key. The capslock in that image is the same key as "ctrl" normally is" and will not fit where capslock is on the keyboard (CTRL is center stemmed)You can't. This is the closest they have: Note the CTRL key is still stepped
Why cut shift key if you could get unstepped one from Unicomp?
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/CTCL
Oh, they have non-stepped Caps Lock! I totally should get it for my Model F - as for now I use extra Ctrl key in place of Caps Lock.
I thought it was a Portuguese right shift, but anyway dorkvader is correct; non-stepped 1.75 BS caps are unobtainium.
Fun fact: if you could perfectly split a buckling spring cap down the center of the stem; you could make a perfect non-stepped 1.75 by joining the right side of a right-shift with the left side of any 1.5 cap.
No they don't have a non-stepped capslock. That's why I advocate cutting up another key. The capslock in that image is the same key as "ctrl" normally is" and will not fit where capslock is on the keyboard (CTRL is center stemmed)You can't. This is the closest they have: Note the CTRL key is still stepped
Why cut shift key if you could get unstepped one from Unicomp?
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/CTCL
Oh, they have non-stepped Caps Lock! I totally should get it for my Model F - as for now I use extra Ctrl key in place of Caps Lock.
The only key that will fit there is a very rare japanese "shift" key.
On AT Model F Caps Lock IS center-stemmed and unicomp one will fit on mine ;) But yes, it's no good for XT :(Also on 3179 "model C" and PC/XT. The issue is they aren't "standard" layout at all. I think you would need a different PCB for centered capslock like those keyboards have.
Will it work hooked up to the original controller run through a Soarer's convertor?
That looks really nice! Too bad I'm on the metal cased model F train
Choooo Chooooooooo!
That looks really nice! Too bad I'm on the metal cased model F trainI have a Kishsaver and I agree completely. But now that we know this technique works, all we need is some folks to design the case and have it milled. You might even see a capacitive SSK or M-15 knock-off. How cool would that be?
Choooo Chooooooooo!
Where did the PCB get printed?PCBWay was the fab, so Hangzhou China
Where did the PCB get printed?PCBWay was the fab, so Hangzhou China
And very reasonably priced too. I might be able to keep the "kit" price under $50. The kit would include ...It would not include a controller or key caps. There is no cost savings for ordering these two components in bulk, and you get to make the important personalization choices. Either controller should work and key assignments could be anything you want them to be.
- matrix PCB
- barrel frame
- barrel pad
- PCB and frame mounting hardware
- 2 or 3 extra barrels and flippers
- 4 new cork feet
And very reasonably priced too. I might be able to keep the "kit" price under $50. The kit would include ...What’s the cost like on the PCB and metal plates for one-offs of a custom design (as compared to a group order of some standard design)?It would not include a controller or key caps. There is no cost savings for ordering these two components in bulk, and you get to make the important personalization choices. Either controller should work and key assignments could be anything you want them to be.
- matrix PCB
- barrel frame
- barrel pad
- PCB and frame mounting hardware
- 2 or 3 extra barrels and flippers
- 4 new cork feet
And very reasonably priced too. I might be able to keep the "kit" price under $50. The kit would include ...
- matrix PCB
And very reasonably priced too. I might be able to keep the "kit" price under $50. The kit would include ...
- matrix PCB
If only a full matrix like a POS board was available! Come on guys; everyone who wants one such speak up!
By the way... This is already almost ready keyboard. And it could be made in a commercial product, much appreciated by community... Maybe you'll talk with Unicomp? Although I doubt they could produce xt-sized case :(As far as I know Unicomp can’t produce Model F barrels or flippies, they don’t make capsense controllers, they don’t make XT-sized cases, etc.
By the way... This is already almost ready keyboard. And it could be made in a commercial product, much appreciated by community... Maybe you'll talk with Unicomp? Although I doubt they could produce xt-sized case :(As far as I know Unicomp can’t produce Model F barrels or flippies, they don’t make capsense controllers, they don’t make XT-sized cases, etc.
Basically the only part of this Unicomp is relevant to is the keycaps.
By the way... This is already almost ready keyboard. And it could be made in a commercial product, much appreciated by community... Maybe you'll talk with Unicomp? Although I doubt they could produce xt-sized case :(As far as I know Unicomp can’t produce Model F barrels or flippies, they don’t make capsense controllers, they don’t make XT-sized cases, etc.
Basically the only part of this Unicomp is relevant to is the keycaps.
Yeah, but I doubt it can't be produced at all. Springs-hammers assembly could be easiest... or not. Only question is price, of course...
By the way... This is already almost ready keyboard. And it could be made in a commercial product, much appreciated by community... Maybe you'll talk with Unicomp? Although I doubt they could produce xt-sized case :(As far as I know Unicomp can’t produce Model F barrels or flippies, they don’t make capsense controllers, they don’t make XT-sized cases, etc.
Basically the only part of this Unicomp is relevant to is the keycaps.
Yeah, but I doubt it can't be produced at all. Springs-hammers assembly could be easiest... or not. Only question is price, of course...
I think the whole point of this project was to use the springs/hammers, barrels, back plate and case from the XT to make this XTant. The only thing custom would be the top plate, PCB and caps.
By the way... This is already almost ready keyboard. And it could be made in a commercial product, much appreciated by community... Maybe you'll talk with Unicomp? Although I doubt they could produce xt-sized case :(
As far as I know Unicomp can’t produce Model F barrels or flippies, they don’t make capsense controllers, they don’t make XT-sized cases, etc. Basically the only part of this Unicomp is relevant to is the keycaps.
Yeah, but I doubt it can't be produced at all. Springs-hammers assembly could be easiest... or not. Only question is price, of course...Well sure. If you have the tens of thousands of dollars (or whatever) it costs to pay for tooling, I’m sure we could get someone to make some barrels and flippies. But that doesn’t really have anything to do with Unicomp. I don’t think it’s an investment that will easily pay for itself without a massive amount of advertising, and it would be a hugely risky project. But go for it!
I think the whole point of this project was to use the springs/hammers, barrels, back plate and case from the XT to make this XTant. The only thing custom would be the top plate, PCB and caps.Yes, everyone understands that. mougrim was talking about a commercial product though. As in, something that can actually be produced and sold at scale, not just frankensteined from a dwindling supply of 30+ year old keyboards.
I think the whole point of this project was to use the springs/hammers, barrels, back plate and case from the XT to make this XTant. The only thing custom would be the top plate, PCB and caps.Yes, everyone understands that. mougrim was talking about a commercial product though. As in, something that can actually be produced and sold at scale, not just frankensteined from a dwindling supply of 30+ year old keyboards.
I know. IF you have an XT. But... I thought we use Model F from IBM both because of their build quality and bуcause they cant be produced now. But then I saw capsense project and this one. And realized it can - maybe not with ease, but...
The climate/ social environment is not suitable for that now. But interest in mechanical keyboards is rising so we have a chance in a few years.That what I thought after I wrote that last post...
I think the whole point of this project was to use the springs/hammers, barrels, back plate and case from the XT to make this XTant. The only thing custom would be the top plate, PCB and caps.Yes, everyone understands that. mougrim was talking about a commercial product though. As in, something that can actually be produced and sold at scale, not just frankensteined from a dwindling supply of 30+ year old keyboards.
I doubt that this will ever be a commercial project. People seem not to want older model F's, they seem to pick cherry or topre.
I think the whole point of this project was to use the springs/hammers, barrels, back plate and case from the XT to make this XTant. The only thing custom would be the top plate, PCB and caps.Yes, everyone understands that. mougrim was talking about a commercial product though. As in, something that can actually be produced and sold at scale, not just frankensteined from a dwindling supply of 30+ year old keyboards.
I doubt that this will ever be a commercial project. People seem not to want older model F's, they seem to pick cherry or topre.
Yeah, because most cherry and topre boards are new. I think number of old cherry boards and old Model F boards maniacs are comparable ;) Oh, and there a lot less trouble with old cherry boards (most of them). There a lot of companies producing cherry-boards, cherry-clone-boards and so on. And advertising them. But BS boards are produced only by Unicomp. Company, known only amongst us, geeks. Period.
It can be different. Look what done Matias with Alps switches boards.
Customers just can't choose brand-new Model F in nice case, because there ain't any ;)
Look at how long unicomp has sat on their hands for a "new" SSK, which seems to be a very popular layout/switch type (not that unicomp is a very active company in terms of bringing out new models). They have gotten feedback that it's wanted, but still not enough to actually mass produce it.I don’t what Unicomp does can be taken as evidence of anything.
Look at how long unicomp has sat on their hands for a "new" SSK, which seems to be a very popular layout/switch type (not that unicomp is a very active company in terms of bringing out new models). They have gotten feedback that it's wanted, but still not enough to actually mass produce it.I don’t what Unicomp does can be taken as evidence of anything.
Their only new products in the last few years are:
(1) switching to 1.5/1/1.5/5.75/1.25/1.5/1/1.5 bottom row instead of their previous 1.5/1.25/1.25/5.75/1.25/1.25/1.5 bottom row
(2) this:
What’s the cost like on the PCB and metal plates for one-offs of a custom design (as compared to a group order of some standard design)?Both the PCB and top plate have high setup costs. The top plate is similar to a Cherry/Alps plate. The PCB is a lot simpler than the Cherry/Alps equivalent; no vias, just 31 plated through holes, two unplated mount holes. Still, the lowest quote I got for a single PCB was > $100. I ordered 10 of the PCB because the price difference between 1 and 10 was so little.
XT's are easily available for a pretty reasonable price (I wouldn't pay over $50 for one and I really like model Fs)There are only a finite number of these left in the world. Eventually we will need to produce new parts if we want to keep making "new" model Fs.
Would suggest to have the plate cut to support both XT and F barrels. Also, can you share the cutout dimensions and spacing?I will release gerbers and DXF of everything (including support for both barrels) here soon. The capacitive pad designs are 35 years old and I would consider anything I have added to this as CC0 (public domain, no rights reserved).
XT's are easily available for a pretty reasonable price (I wouldn't pay over $50 for one and I really like model Fs)There are only a finite number of these left in the world. Eventually we will need to produce new parts if we want to keep making "new" model Fs.
The XTant is a very important first step
As it so happens, I was planning a similar layout for my next project. We are limited to the key cap shapes that Unicomp has - that 1.75 right shift will be stepped like a caps lock - but that is a good thing in that it creates a tactile buffer between the shift and up arrow. I liked that so much that i put a 1.75 Ctrl to the left of left arrow - this really sets the arrow cluster apart and easy to find without looking. Backspace can be split. ANSI or ISO Enter and left shift are supported and user selectable. The controllers are fully programmable, so the users can move caps around (like swap Caps Lock with right Ctrl).
Just need someone to design the case. Any volunteers?
Here's a layout that wcass and I agree upon for an 80% board: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4c68c970e538c4301e5cc9f45fd75154I really like the use of stepped keys around the arrows, but that looks more like a 75% to me. I've not been a huge fan of 75% but as far as 75% goes it's better than most I know of.Quote from: wcassAs it so happens, I was planning a similar layout for my next project. We are limited to the key cap shapes that Unicomp has - that 1.75 right shift will be stepped like a caps lock - but that is a good thing in that it creates a tactile buffer between the shift and up arrow. I liked that so much that i put a 1.75 Ctrl to the left of left arrow - this really sets the arrow cluster apart and easy to find without looking. Backspace can be split. ANSI or ISO Enter and left shift are supported and user selectable. The controllers are fully programmable, so the users can move caps around (like swap Caps Lock with right Ctrl).
Just need someone to design the case. Any volunteers?
Here's a layout that wcass and I agree upon for an 80% board: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4c68c970e538c4301e5cc9f45fd75154If you’re going to have F keys at all you should put some space between them and the numbers, and some space between groups (1/4u extra is enough). Otherwise it’s pretty much impossible to avoid errors.
If you’re going to have F keys at all you should put some space between them and the numbers, and some space between groups (1/4u extra is enough). Otherwise it’s pretty much impossible to avoid errors.I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.
I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
(If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)Plate spring? Like 5576-002's are common.
I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I prefer to game on MX Reds, but I don't always keep two keyboards connected.I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I game on my model F, it's nice. F122 for now!
I don't use F keys very much, but i know that many people do. I would prefer a 65% myself with a split space bar (using blank shift caps; left used as backspace). A copy or homage of the M-15 would be nice too.FWIW, it's probably easier to get going on a 60% layout first, I'm sure there would be tons of support for it.
I don't use F keys very much, but i know that many people do. I would prefer a 65% myself with a split space bar (using blank shift caps; left used as backspace). A copy or homage of the M-15 would be nice too.Get some "code" keys from wheelwriters. They're convex so they make great keycaps for split spacebars.
Here's a layout that wcass and I agree upon for an 80% board: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4c68c970e538c4301e5cc9f45fd75154Quote from: wcassAs it so happens, I was planning a similar layout for my next project. We are limited to the key cap shapes that Unicomp has - that 1.75 right shift will be stepped like a caps lock - but that is a good thing in that it creates a tactile buffer between the shift and up arrow. I liked that so much that i put a 1.75 Ctrl to the left of left arrow - this really sets the arrow cluster apart and easy to find without looking. Backspace can be split. ANSI or ISO Enter and left shift are supported and user selectable. The controllers are fully programmable, so the users can move caps around (like swap Caps Lock with right Ctrl).
Just need someone to design the case. Any volunteers?
I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I play video games with my F. And like it a lot better than Cherry ;) Although it can get a little noisy :
I prefer to game on MX Reds, but I don't always keep two keyboards connected.I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I game on my model F, it's nice. F122 for now!I don't use F keys very much, but i know that many people do. I would prefer a 65% myself with a split space bar (using blank shift caps; left used as backspace). A copy or homage of the M-15 would be nice too.FWIW, it's probably easier to get going on a 60% layout first, I'm sure there would be tons of support for it.
EDIT: Here's a potential 60% layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6d394ac7c0bb34af017ce9e41e623e7d (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6d394ac7c0bb34af017ce9e41e623e7d)
I find the spacing on standard 101s between the F and number keys more irritating than helpful. It's useful for gaming to have the F keys directly above the number keys, I don't find accuracy to be much of an issue.I don’t play video games, but you’re planning to play games with a Model F? Seems like you’d get better results with a different switch. (If you want a clicky switch, I recommend Alps plate spring.)
A standard 101 key had a lot of space so you could put little custom cardboard labels under the keys. But a little bit of space (1/4 or 1/2u) is definitely helpful.
I play video games with my F. And like it a lot better than Cherry ;) Although it can get a little noisy :
I'm just happy that you're alive. Have you been forced to flee home yet? The news looks more and more grim (I know, bad pun on your name) and at this point even I am believing the Western propaganda about how Russia has turned your home region into hell. The Economist calls it Somalia.
Here's a layout that wcass and I agree upon for an 80% board: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4c68c970e538c4301e5cc9f45fd75154
In fact, after thinking about it, the best layout for a very popular model F would simply be the layout of the SSK as is. Simply amazing. Not saying a 60% like it would not be nice, but I think that the SSK layout is a more logic option.Yep. Either SSK or that 80% layout we all seen here.
I'm moved to the capital. Because, yes. Not Somalia, but it'll be second Abhazia. Or Pridnestrov'ye. I just don't want to live under rule of some petty warlord with his henchmen. And, generally, Russia made all of us more pro-western than USA ever could :)
I'm moved to the capital. Because, yes. Not Somalia, but it'll be second Abhazia. Or Pridnestrov'ye. I just don't want to live under rule of some petty warlord with his henchmen. And, generally, Russia made all of us more pro-western than USA ever could :)
let me shamelessly plug Taoism here, since we don't believe in unnecessary and unnatural actions. I think not poking one's nose into others' affairs and not launching human rights jihads make the world a better place.
If the USA didn't invade and intervene everywhere it wouldn't have to keep dealing with the failed consequences. EG CIA supported the Shah, then funded Osama bin Laden, then they overthrew Saddam and supplied Iraqi army and Syrian rebels with US weapons which are now in the hands of ISIS.
And of course Russia made the same type of mistakes. I don't think anyone in Ukraine is about to embrace Slavic brotherhood anymore with the country whose fate has traditionally been intertwined with them.
And the Muslims also made the same mistakes. If conservative Muslims didn't keep donating money to support radicals, the Western powers won't keep sending troops into Muslim countries. And if the radicals didn't keep making trouble and incurring the general loathing of non-Musims everywhere, Muslims won't be bombed.
Here's a layout that wcass and I agree upon for an 80% board: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4c68c970e538c4301e5cc9f45fd75154
I'm way into this layout :D
A working XTant will be at the monthly keyboard meetup in San Francisco - October 25.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63165.msg
Attendees will get to see/handle most of the parts that will go into the kits.
A working XTant will be at the monthly keyboard meetup in San Francisco - October 25.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63165.msg
Attendees will get to see/handle most of the parts that will go into the kits.
This should be incredible for those who are attending.
Most fortunately (or unfortunately) I killed 2 XTs at one point which caused me to buy 1 more xt. Now I have 3, all have been finally restored to full working condition... and I'm not using any of them! I actually just pulled the keycaps off one to give to Dorkvader. (Did a nice dye job). I am waiting for enthusiasts to start work on an Xtant with a layout that I want.
BTW that XT casing is really a piece of work. I wish modern keyboards could be as solid. Even my 'well built' Deck Legend is like a toy in comparison, having only 1 metal plate. And my Tipro (with top and bottom metal plates) is still behind the XT and its 3 metal plates.
That said I was only just talking to fohat and got an idea I want to talk about here.
Samwisekoi is working out how to build a keyboard casing from assembled 2D parts of cut acrylic now. It's cheaper than custom molding. He can use led spacers to support the middle of the PCB, so these are standard production parts and should be easy and cheap to get.
I think we can extend the idea to model Fs as well. Just get thicker acrylic for the weight, and use led spacers of different heights to support the curved plate. That way we don't have to fret about a lack of casings.
We might see what Signature Plastics would need to start making copies of the barrels and hammers/flippies.Very large amounts of money for tooling?
Good case designs are needed as we try to expand this beyond the current XTant. I have always intended to partner with others to help restore this switch to the prominence it deserves. I would not have been able to do anything without the DPH and xwhatsit's controllers. I'll send Samwisekoi a PM.
We might see what Signature Plastics would need to start making copies of the barrels and hammers/flippies. The tricky thing about the hammers/flippies is that they need to be made of a plastic capable of carrying a capacitive charge.
I also wonder. If we have so many tech guys on geekhack, how come no one has any access to IBM engineers. Surely someone here knows someone on facebook who can introduce him to someone who worked on the original keyboards. These guys aren't dead. They're probably grumpy retirees now with nothing better to do, and we could dispatch fohat to talk to them about vinyl recordings or Elvis until they crack and spill the (magical capacitative) beans. :pIIRC Parak got in touch with one or two of those guys and they basically had no interest in talking to him.
I also wonder. If we have so many tech guys on geekhack, how come no one has any access to IBM engineers. Surely someone here knows someone on facebook who can introduce him to someone who worked on the original keyboards. These guys aren't dead. They're probably grumpy retirees now with nothing better to do, and we could dispatch fohat to talk to them about vinyl recordings or Elvis until they crack and spill the (magical capacitative) beans. :pIIRC Parak got in touch with one or two of those guys and they basically had no interest in talking to him.
Give it another shot though, can’t hurt to try! :)
I'm pretty sure that the magic ingredient is carbon black or graphite. I'm not sure how much, but think it is unlikely that someone will remember the correct ratio 35 years later.
I'm pretty sure that the magic ingredient is carbon black or graphite. I'm not sure how much, but think it is unlikely that someone will remember the correct ratio 35 years later.I doubt we need correct ratio. I we used original controller - then yes, but in our case...
Hmm, seems like the biggest hurdle for end users will be the controller. Seems like a waste not to re-use the original since it would not require assembly other than reconnecting wires, and it does work with Soarer's Converter which is relatively inexpensive, easier to program, and I believe has more features. Has any testing been done looking at whether more scan codes can be generated using the a new matrix and the old controller? Doesn't really matter what the scan codes are as long as they are unique since they can be remapped with the Soarer's Converter.
Only other thing I would change is to make the navigation block area a regular 4x4 matrix with single 1x width keys with a capsense pad under each one. That way, The builder can install whatever they want there. Any unused barrel holes could be covered with a mask of plastic or other material. Alternatively to masking, a few different top plate configurations could be made available. Only difference would be how many holes are cut into it. The PCB would be the same.
If you look into making custom cases, the overall plate width could be reduced, and you could go back down to standard 1x width keys for the control block area also.
One last "wish" feature would be something like an erase-ease key, where the space bar would be split so that you could choose to re-assign either half to be a backspace key. You'd basically have to cut a Model M spacebar using a dremel or similar so that one barrel receptacle is on each side. Putting one more cap sense pad underneath that second barrel that is normally used to stabilize would make this attemptable at least. Such a mod hasn't been possible up until now because there is no sensor underneath that second barrel.
I'm going to throw in my vote for an SSK layout. Mine would be this (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145). I like the availability of keys (and the symmetry) better than the other layouts. If we used this, we could re-use Model M keys instead of having to go to Unicomp for them.
I'm not limited on space and that 80% layout, while cool, just seems too cramped for me. I would much prefer an SSK-eque layout to the 80%. I would even love a full sized board if that was an option.
I'm going to throw in my vote for an SSK layout. Mine would be this (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145). I like the availability of keys (and the symmetry) better than the other layouts. If we used this, we could re-use Model M keys instead of having to go to Unicomp for them.
I'm not limited on space and that 80% layout, while cool, just seems too cramped for me. I would much prefer an SSK-eque layout to the 80%. I would even love a full sized board if that was an option.
That 103 key layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145) is nice - nothing wrong with a standard ANSI full size with Win/Menu keys. That would be my second choice.
First choice would be a Kishsaver / HHKB layout. (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/855ac97ae2ec90a0898fb1d4c17e9152) Kishsaver if you use all 62 keys, HHKB if you dump the bottom outside modifiers.
I have to get an xt now. Any possibility of this being able to be stuffed in a bigfoot case?There is a very good chance (i was asked about this before) but i'm not 100% sure. Maybe 90% sure.
wcass, have you found a supplier for replacement springs?
I'm going to throw in my vote for an SSK layout. Mine would be this (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145). I like the availability of keys (and the symmetry) better than the other layouts. If we used this, we could re-use Model M keys instead of having to go to Unicomp for them.
I'm not limited on space and that 80% layout, while cool, just seems too cramped for me. I would much prefer an SSK-eque layout to the 80%. I would even love a full sized board if that was an option.
Have an example layout we could look at?
That 103 key layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145) is nice - nothing wrong with a standard ANSI full size with Win/Menu keys. That would be my second choice.
First choice would be a Kishsaver / HHKB layout. (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/855ac97ae2ec90a0898fb1d4c17e9152) Kishsaver if you use all 62 keys, HHKB if you dump the bottom outside modifiers.
Once again I plug a matrix layout. There are some guys discussing matrix layouts on other threads, come on man, come here right away and put in your votes for a matrix layout!!!
wcass, have you found a supplier for replacement springs?
I'm going to throw in my vote for an SSK layout. Mine would be this (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be5a9ec8883b39c8aab3dbb3dd741145). I like the availability of keys (and the symmetry) better than the other layouts. If we used this, we could re-use Model M keys instead of having to go to Unicomp for them.
I'm not limited on space and that 80% layout, while cool, just seems too cramped for me. I would much prefer an SSK-eque layout to the 80%. I would even love a full sized board if that was an option.
Wait, what? The springs are very obviously different...wcass, have you found a supplier for replacement springs?Yes, Unicomp. F and M springs are the same.
OK, the number of turns is a little different - 28 for the M, 32 for the F. The inner diameter of the spring is the same and the length is close enough that i can't tell the difference on a mixed board.Wait, what? The springs are very obviously different...wcass, have you found a supplier for replacement springs?Yes, Unicomp. F and M springs are the same.
From this picture, it appears as if the M spring is using a thicker gauge of wire than the F spring. It's obviously more important to have working springs of some variety, but accurately replicating the feel of the F is probably non-trivially spring dependent.OK, the number of turns is a little different - 28 for the M, 32 for the F. The inner diameter of the spring is the same and the length is close enough that i can't tell the difference on a mixed board.Wait, what? The springs are very obviously different...wcass, have you found a supplier for replacement springs?Yes, Unicomp. F and M springs are the same.
(Attachment Link)
The M spring is very obviously stiffer; I personally suspect that the spring different accounts for much (most?) of the difference in tactile feel between the two types of switches, and think a model M with model F springs would be substantially improved.It sure stiffer - both in original M and in Unicomp ones. I like F feeling better.
I'm almost sure that my next layout will be 60% and will take/use either XT or AT type barrels. The reason for this is that 60% uses only 64 barrels. This will create the surplus of barrels and pivot plates necessary to support designs that need more than 82 barrels. A copy of the SSK would an need an XT plus 8 barrels and 3 pivot plates.
If I may, I'd like to propose a layout for one of your future custom Model Fs:
(Attachment Link)
I think it has kind of a oldschool vibe to it, but with the functionality of a modern Keyboard. The placement of a Fn key, etc. could of course be changed. Unicomp should be able to make that 5.75u spacebar.
The whole situation does seem wasteful though, junking everything but the barrels and pivot plates.
I think there are two things.
1 - is the original XTant project, of which wcass will have some kits available soon, to perform the conversion from the original 83 key layout, to the newer layout.
2 - is, now that a custom Model F barrel plate can be designed and cut, along with a custom PCB - and we have xwhatsits and the DPH capacitive USB controllers - one could pretty much build a Model F in whatever layout one desires // the only limiter is cost, where it is always cheaper to do runs of plates / PCBs in bulk.
I think there are two things.
1 - is the original XTant project, of which wcass will have some kits available soon, to perform the conversion from the original 83 key layout, to the newer layout.
2 - is, now that a custom Model F barrel plate can be designed and cut, along with a custom PCB - and we have xwhatsits and the DPH capacitive USB controllers - one could pretty much build a Model F in whatever layout one desires // the only limiter is cost, where it is always cheaper to do runs of plates / PCBs in bulk.
DPH Thread : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52922.30
The ears are part of the charm. How dare you commit sacrilege by cutting these off!He is a blasphemer, right ;) No, "ears" are cool ;)
oh wait
I'm talking to the man who cut up a model F122 backplate...
There are at least a couple of philosophies about refurbishing keyboards. One approach is to restore the keyboard keeping everything as "stock" as possible. Another is to restore the keyboard but to make changes -- usually intended as improvements -- in the appearance, sound, feel, or functionality of the keyboard. If you are in the second camp, you might be inclined to delete the "ears" on an XT or AT keyboard. I have been thinking of doing this myself, and instead of using the built-in legs, I am considering installing "bumpers" on the bottom of the case.
Happy with my AT as it is. Well, with exception of ANSI-mod.
Happy with my AT as it is. Well, with exception of ANSI-mod.
Happy that you're even alive. From the news, the body count is mounting back where you used to live, and there seems to be no end now that Putin is even moving regular troops in. I am not envisioning the worst, but I think Ukraine isn't going to be a nice place to live in for quite a long time and the only good thing about having an AT is at least you have something to protect your head when shells come flying in.
Happy with my AT as it is. Well, with exception of ANSI-mod.
Happy that you're even alive. From the news, the body count is mounting back where you used to live, and there seems to be no end now that Putin is even moving regular troops in. I am not envisioning the worst, but I think Ukraine isn't going to be a nice place to live in for quite a long time and the only good thing about having an AT is at least you have something to protect your head when shells come flying in.
I think not before long ther ain't be any money in Russia to wage wars on :) So we bidding our time.
By the way... Where are you getting those nice, nice 4704 107 Model F?
They are looking fabulous...
Yeah but USPS will only mail via GXG to Ukraine, which is $283.50, Priority to any other country in Europe is $83.06. These things weigh 12 lbs boxed.By the way... Where are you getting those nice, nice 4704 107 Model F?
They are looking fabulous...
One is available currently in the classifieds : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63679.0
Yeah but USPS will only mail via GXG to Ukraine, which is $283.50, Priority to any other country in Europe is $83.06. These things weigh 12 lbs boxed.By the way... Where are you getting those nice, nice 4704 107 Model F?
They are looking fabulous...
One is available currently in the classifieds : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63679.0
Why arent they for sale in some amazing groupbuy?
Why arent they for sale in some amazing groupbuy?
This is a "labor of love" that has been ongoing for a couple of years.
It is a fussy and complex thing, not just ordering "x" number of chunks of plastic blown into a mold.
Why arent they for sale in some amazing groupbuy?
This is a "labor of love" that has been ongoing for a couple of years.
It is a fussy and complex thing, not just ordering "x" number of chunks of plastic blown into a mold.
Frankly, better WCass than me! He's doing such an awesome job. But I wonder if I will ever live to see this in matrix format or in split keyboard format. I really dream of having my own 8x8 Model F custom keyboards with bluetooth. Frankly, once I get these, I will never purchase another keyboard or buy another keycap in my life.
There is definitely interest in custom Model Fs, for example : http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-model-f-62-and-f-107-mod-ideas-t9324.html
The only question is, how many others would want to go in with the same layout as you for the 8x8 matrix (as quantity brings down cost).
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16376821400_fdfe141c2c_o.jpg)Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/15941716434_b794b85c99_o.jpg)
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16376821400_fdfe141c2c_o.jpg)Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/15941716434_b794b85c99_o.jpg)
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16376821400_fdfe141c2c_o.jpg)Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/15941716434_b794b85c99_o.jpg)
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16376821400_fdfe141c2c_o.jpg)Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/15941716434_b794b85c99_o.jpg)
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
That is some sexy **** there.
How long until we have a buckling spring ergo dox?
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157650892000845/Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16376821400_fdfe141c2c_o.jpg)Show Image(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/15941716434_b794b85c99_o.jpg)
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
That is some sexy **** there.
How long until we have a buckling spring ergo dox?
Theoretically possible to make one tomorrow :o I think the first thing is to get a decent layout down. This means getting readily available keys from unicomp with the added possibility of using "code" keys from wheelwriters (they are convex like an IBM spacebar and shouldn't "bite" your thumb like a SP spacebar) Then, with some changes to the fingers and thumb area (look at the keyboardio as an example) it would fit more people I think. Once that's decided on, we can get PCBs made. I think the ideal method is to get the controller onboard the matrix PCB (ironically one of the downfalls of the XT keyboard: the idea saves a lot of time and money here). With a relatively large order (50+ at least!) you can get them made and soldered with a pick&place machine, then some poor guy can program them all before mailing.
I think the bent over plate-case could work. Have a radiused bend for the pcb area, and some 90 degree bends to make the upper and lower "feet". Cut some angles in it to screw the controller down and it'd look pretty slick.
All of the above is being pioneered by this project. The hope is that we'll work out the bugs and find out what the limitations of the hardware and controller are. This paves the way for more complex projects down the road, and is a necessary "first step" in making a full model F "from scratch". The supply of XTs won't last forever you know and prices have risen significantly since I joined GH.
I am getting a plate (or a few, depending on pricing) made, and I already have a short list of HVAC / metalworking shops nearby that I can check on plate bending. After that, I'll be able to update more frequently.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
I have received an XTant prototype kit in the mail today. I'll be posting updates here as I progress.
Note: will be taking better photos at a later date.
Isn't the lack of a plate a big issue?
Am following the plate thing with some interest.
At some point I kinda want to make a handful of Model F PCBs/Plates with a split layout with each half along the lines of:One possibility to allow angled "thumb keys" is "stamped" plates, but that would require expensive tooling and engineering. Another option would be to go flat.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1bu2btU.png)
Because of the way a curved plate works, I think all the keys have to be in a somewhat strict grid, which makes layouts more closely matching the Ergodox or whatever pretty difficult.
One possibility to allow angled "thumb keys" is "stamped" plates, but that would require expensive tooling and engineering. Another option would be to go flat.
Because of the way a curved plate works, I think all the keys have to be in a somewhat strict grid, which makes layouts more closely matching the Ergodox or whatever pretty difficult.
I thought I'd mention this: I will be using a wheelwriter spacebar and "code" key to make a split spacebar for this.
Just wanted to show what was possible.
edit: this requires the spacebar "dummy" barrel on the left, which is not currently included on the plate drawing DXF. I will forego the split spacebar for now and possibly add it later.
Note: I will be using an old IBM 3178 "model C" keyboard to supply any extra barrels and flippies.
Couldn't we just add a dummy barrel to the DXF, prior to sending it to get cut? That way you could use the Code key and Wheelwriter spacebar.
Now with as sensitive as F style is, wouldn't the bent plate style case present issues with calibration being thrown off based on what type of desk material someone uses?
I know this might be a dumb question, and or one of the things getting tested with this project. Still a question that popped in my head as I was reading your reply.
WCass is usually right but I will take another look at this tomorrow. I think the "code key trick" will only work for a 1.5-7-1.5 spacebar setup. I may solder the controller and give it a shot with a barrel and flip plate to see how far shifted off you can make it before it becomes hard to read. As WCass suggests it may be possible to include this with the current PCB design and just a slightly different plate.Couldn't we just add a dummy barrel to the DXF, prior to sending it to get cut? That way you could use the Code key and Wheelwriter spacebar.
Sorry, but no. When I designed this I made the bottom row (alpha section) [1.5, 1.25, 1.25, 7, 1.25, 1.25, 1.5].
The second barrel is too far right to use a 1.5 (or 2.75 Code) key as the third cap. When I get home today I will check to see how far the pivot plates are shifted off of the capacitive pads by changing the bottom row to [1.5, 1, 1.5, 7, 1.5, 1, 1.5] (with dummy under space).
I'll check on what the cost would be to get a few plates made: might make it easier for other people to put together their prototype.
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
Don't mean to burst your bubble but there is zero chance this will happen.
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
Don't mean to burst your bubble but there is zero chance this will happen.
I know, but hell, everyone can dream, right?
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
Don't mean to burst your bubble but there is zero chance this will happen.
I know, but hell, everyone can dream, right?
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
Don't mean to burst your bubble but there is zero chance this will happen.
I know, but hell, everyone can dream, right?
True, I hear ya there. Personally I am dreaming of a capacitive F internals Ergo Dox style keyboard.
I was just looking on this kinda SSK on Unicomp page and I thought how it cold be wonderful if Unicomp released SSK with clearly superior capacitive F internals, produced by wcass :)
Don't mean to burst your bubble but there is zero chance this will happen.
I know, but hell, everyone can dream, right?
There is a thread for this on DT. Not produced by Unicomp, but basically an extension of the XTant into a full custom Model F.
I have contacted a place about getting custom XTant plates made. He has quoted $70/ea for a small run of 5. Does anyone else with a prototype kit want one?
I will make an IC then later tonight
I will make an IC then later tonight
I would check with The Beast about this as well. Wcass mentioned that he had a plate cut for this project for $30.
I will make an IC then later tonight
I would check with The Beast about this as well. Wcass mentioned that he had a plate cut for this project for $30.
The flip side is getting the plates ran through a slip roller. That is probably doubling the cost itself in its own right.
I will make an IC then later tonight
I would check with The Beast about this as well. Wcass mentioned that he had a plate cut for this project for $30.
The flip side is getting the plates ran through a slip roller. That is probably doubling the cost itself in its own right.
I checked at some local places with slip rollers and that was pretty much the case.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69344.0
^GB link for prototype plates cut and rolled. May not appear right away until it's approved.
note: based on my measurements of an actual XT plate (5" chord length and 0.25" bend depth) we are going with a bend radius of approximately 15". The XT case is tolerant of different bend radii so it should work with no issues even if it's off a little.
The shop we are going with should have a pretty quick turnaround on this, so I can test it and get XTant prototype #3/10 working.
Link should be working now.May not appear right away until it's approved.
That link isn't working for me.
I have contacted a place about getting custom XTant plates made. He has quoted $70/ea for a small run of 5. Does anyone else with a prototype kit want one?Yes, I would be very interested. Please let me know what I would need to do. Thanks.
I have already marked down your interest. You would just need to pay for the plate and shipping. (and provide me your address of course, but all in due time.)I have contacted a place about getting custom XTant plates made. He has quoted $70/ea for a small run of 5. Does anyone else with a prototype kit want one?Yes, I would be very interested. Please let me know what I would need to do. Thanks.
5" chord with .25" depth gives me a 12.625" radius.
5" chord with .25" depth gives me a 12.625" radius.
yes, I thought it was closer to that. I'm checking now.
5" chord with .25" depth gives me a 12.625" radius.
yes, I thought it was closer to that. I'm checking now.
Want me to check my XT and my AT?
5" chord with .25" depth gives me a 12.625" radius.
yes, I thought it was closer to that. I'm checking now.
Want me to check my XT and my AT?
Yes, please!
No I'm sure of my measurements of chord length and arc depth, but the radius is calculated from those.
Want me to check my XT and my AT?
No I'm sure of my measurements of chord length and arc depth, but the radius is calculated from those.
Want me to check my XT and my AT?
Turns out that calculating the bend radius from those measurements proved to be a challenge. I just plugged it into wolfram alpha and got 12.625 as well
No I'm sure of my measurements of chord length and arc depth, but the radius is calculated from those.
Want me to check my XT and my AT?
Turns out that calculating the bend radius from those measurements proved to be a challenge. I just plugged it into wolfram alpha and got 12.625 as well
Another one that is interesting to figure is the area between that chord and the circumference without knowing the angle from the center to the endpoints on the chord.
I'm just gonna photograph the paper I used
edit:Show Image(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16540415100_af9345bca1_h.jpg)
Now that we have all the serious hardcore maths out of the way, we can get these plates made and everyone will have XTants hooray!
I'm going to chime in and sprout my usual spiel whenever possible. Hopefully eventually that will inspire people to do something. Let's see someone build a matrix split layout model F!I think “people” & “someone” = you, berserkfan. This isn’t an impossible challenge, all the necessary skills can be learned. If you want this to happen, you should do it.
I'm going to chime in and sprout my usual spiel whenever possible. Hopefully eventually that will inspire people to do something. Let's see someone build a matrix split layout model F!I think “people” & “someone” = you, berserkfan. This isn’t an impossible challenge, all the necessary skills can be learned. If you want this to happen, you should do it.
I need to take a closer look, but it looks like the default backspace on an XT is 1.75 units, and not 2.
I need to take a closer look, but it looks like the default backspace on an XT is 1.75 units, and not 2.
Just checked one of mine: backspace appears to be 1.75x though alt and capslock are both 2x
So, help me out here.
Today I gathered up my pile of XTant gear and started looking at how to put it all together. I was planning to put the plates and PCB together in a dry run and drill a few holes here and there to use nuts and bolts to keep it all tight and nice. Then I would tidy up all the burrs and paint the new plate.
My impression was that most/some of the parts from the XT would be re-used but I can't see how to do it. I have most of 2 XTs so I can wreck some parts experimenting if I really have to.
Has anyone ever posted any photos or any type of semi-guide on how to assemble an internal assembly using the wcass PCB?
My single primary question is: does the wcass PCB attach to the original back plate, and, if so, how?
Thanks.
From what I am seeing with mine, you have to drill out the original rivets that held the original pcb, then drill holes that line up with the holes in the new pcb.
Well, I have additional set of plates already and I think extra case as well, so what I need is another PCB definitely and probably set of caps. However, if anyone else that still hasn't built it wants it, I think they should have precedence.