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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:34:47

Title: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:34:47
So I've been eying up buying a HHKB for a long time now, I've been a heavy Red switch user for the past year and a half and the topre keyboards that I've seen are around that force.

This is the one that I've been eying up:

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-87ub-variable-mini-black-on-black-keyboard.asp

I would love to get a HHKB but I am not willing to get it imported, it'll just cost too much and this is already very expensive for a keyboard, so what's the verdict? are they worth the price point? because I don't want to spend all this money on a KB if it's horrible and not what I'd like.

I am not able to try out the switch before hand, so that's my problem at the moment.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:39:54
It all comes down to personal preference. No one can tell you if you will like it. Are you sure there isn't anyway you could find someone within travel distance that has one you could try out?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:50:28
It all comes down to personal preference. No one can tell you if you will like it. Are you sure there isn't anyway you could find someone within travel distance that has one you could try out?

I don't think so, I don't have a lot of friends who tend to splash out keyboards, they're more hardware geeks and what not, not into their peripherals and what not.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:57:04
I think it might be a safe bet to get a Realforce for starters before advancing to HHKB if need be. I hear constantly the customs in the EU are strict and unless you can get a person who can forward it to you somehow on some (dodgy) terms. It is hard otherwise.

Besides you can remap the keys as you need with Realforce without splashing money onto HHKB.

However, HHKB maybe worth the money if you really want something compact and features Topre switch. I have not tried Cherry MX Red so I cannot tell you if they are equivalent to Topre (in very crude way of course), however Cherry MX Browns feels lighter than Topre. I only know that is only because I got both Topre and MX Browns in front of me.

Most of the expensive price point with HHKB is mainly to do with the cult following behind it, if you have never tried HHKB or Topre it is good to try out something that is more known and better priced before jumping deep. Unless you have wads of cash (like I did) to spend on HHKB then by all means.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:58:22
You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..


If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-2.gif)
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:09:21
Yet the irony is that whatever seems to be cool in Japan seems to be bought and probably sold elsewhere in the world...

If Topre was selling snake oil and to be this successful to have clones, then it must be worth more than the "delusions" the "fanboys" are describing.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: osi on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:12:27
I think it might be a safe bet to get a Realforce for starters before advancing to HHKB if need be. I hear constantly the customs in the EU are strict and unless you can get a person who can forward it to you somehow on some (dodgy) terms. It is hard otherwise.

Besides you can remap the keys as you need with Realforce without splashing money onto HHKB.

However, HHKB maybe worth the money if you really want something compact and features Topre switch. I have not tried Cherry MX Red so I cannot tell you if they are equivalent to Topre (in very crude way of course), however Cherry MX Browns feels lighter than Topre. I only know that is only because I got both Topre and MX Browns in front of me.

Most of the expensive price point with HHKB is mainly to do with the cult following behind it, if you have never tried HHKB or Topre it is good to try out something that is more known and better priced before jumping deep. Unless you have wads of cash (like I did) to spend on HHKB then by all means.

+1
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:19:41
Well I wish I had gone straight to Topre and skipped mx all together but then I would probably have still been curious. Never used a Realforce so can't give to much feedback on that but HHKBs are really great, I haven't heard many good things about the variable board though I would definitely consider uniform.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: yasuo on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:28:06
You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..

because people like rubber different with plastic
If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

Show Image
(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-2.gif)

because people like rubber different with plastic :rolleyes:

btw tuxsavvy you has cherry split :eek:
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:29:58
Topre is definitely worth it.

It is NOT just another rubber dome.

The feel is much different.  You do not have to mash the hell out of each keypress to make sure it actuated.  Also there is none of that "pressing on a wet newspaper" feel you can get from a rubber dome keyboard.  (I know "wet newspapers" is what they say about Cherry MY switches, but it applies to rubber domes too.)

The technology of the capacitive switch is far superior to any rubber dome or mechanical Cherry switch.

The magic of "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber" is not an illusion.  It says so right on the box:

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/projectionist/hhkb.jpg)

In the end, I do believe you will be able to re-sell your RealForce Keyboard to somebody in the UK via the GH classified section, in the unlikely event that you don't like it.  You may have to absorb a 10-30% loss depending on market demand at the moment of your sale, but you will not be stuck with it forever.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:40:30
btw tuxsavvy you has cherry split :o

Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  :))
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Abe on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:43:04
That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one :P
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: yasuo on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:48:51
Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  :))
no no,before symmetric your living not  harmonic, get μTRON your life will be harmony
or mod your Cherry split to symmetric :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:52:25
That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one :P

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game. 
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:54:23
Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  :))
no no,before symmetric your living not  harmonic, get μTRON your life will be harmony
or mod your Cherry split to symmetric ::)
Nah lol, my next step might (only might) be IBM SSK. Buckling spring with TKL layout. µTRON is just split keyboard with Topre. I already have HHKB for "Topre realm" hehe.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:58:43
That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one :P

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game.

Caps lock is definitely better as control for gaming, however, having to press FN + number for function keys is not ideal - I just use my Filco if I am playing a game that relies heavily on function keys.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 23 January 2014, 08:20:06
That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one :P

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game.

I have to agree with eth0s, I only recently moved to Topre and I love gaming on my HHKB!
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 23 January 2014, 10:46:04
This is something that needs to be up to you. It sucks because it's a risky potential investment monetarily speaking, but your returns on the board if you decide to sell it shortly after getting it would be about the same amount as you originally paid.

In my personal opinion as someone who recently bought a Topre; I would say no, they are not worth the entry fee and feel much too close to a regular well put together rubber dome to warrant the mark up. If they were priced closer to say, a Filco ($150) I would say, defiantly yes, buy one with zero regrets.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 23 January 2014, 12:49:26
This is something that needs to be up to you. It sucks because it's a risky potential investment monetarily speaking, but your returns on the board if you decide to sell it shortly after getting it would be about the same amount as you originally paid.

In my personal opinion as someone who recently bought a Topre; I would say no, they are not worth the entry fee and feel much too close to a regular well put together rubber dome to warrant the mark up. If they were priced closer to say, a Filco ($150) I would say, defiantly yes, buy one with zero regrets.

Ah I see, I mean I love MX Reds and the Topre that I'm looking at does seem to be quite light and what not.
I'm a programmer/coder, spend pretty much all day, every day on my computer but one thing that I don't like is the fact that it's quite close to a rubber dome, I do not like that feel one bit to be quite honest. But then others have said that the feeling of typing on a topre is amazing and obviously if I bought this and liked it then it could be a great investment, I think I'll have to try and find a friend or a friend of a friend with one before buying, it's a lot of money to splash out on a keyboard.

Thanks though.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: apotheosis on Thu, 23 January 2014, 13:28:14
I've been hacking on a Realforce for about 4 days now after a year with mx-blues.

It feels like a digital piano keyboard in a really good way. The bottoming out sensation is very similar, it just has half the travel distance of the piano.

I suspect that the capacitor switches could be hacked to give acceleration data if the pcb wasn't just sending digital data. I don't see how that would be useful, just an observation.

When switching back to low end domes, you can feel extreme similarities to the press, but the individual switches remove any discomfort from the process.

I'm glad I have both, though I'm having a tough time choosing a favorite. I think I'll stick to the topres at work just from the sound alone.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 16:22:48
I dislike topre. It's soft, it's trying too hard to be tactile, you can't get custom keycaps for it, and it's too expensive.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 16:47:01
I have both a Topre and a Filco with MX Browns. While I honestly am a bit up in the air about which switch I prefer, I still think Topre boards are absolutely worth their price.

MX Browns are easier to press than Topre switches, which is one thing I like more about MX Browns than Topre switches. Topre switches, however, are SIGNIFICANTLY much more smooth (ie. very little wobble) and more solid than MX switches. The feel is addicting and hard to get over. 

Also, the build quality of the Topre Realforce is a step above than the Filco. I can flex the Filco board (this is a Majestouch 2, btw) more than I can flex my Realforce board.

Furthermore, consider that my Filco cost around $150, with just ABS keycaps. If I want a set of PBT Dyesubs for the Filco, it will cost an extra $100 or so, essentially making the Filco $250.

But if you consider that a Topre costs around $260, with PBT Dyesubs included already... then you can see Topre boards really aren't that much more expensive, or a ripoff, as other people make it out to be.

If you're curious about it, I strongly suggest you at least check it out. It will be easy to sell it back on the classifieds for around $220, which isn't a very big hit.

Edit: What tp4tissue says about Topre boards are absolute flat-out lies. Anyone who says a Topre switch feels just like any other rubber dome are being disingenuous, as they completely and purposefully leave out the fact that Topre switches are, again, much more solid, and much more smooth than not just any other typical rubber dome, but also Cherry MX switches.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 23 January 2014, 16:49:11
You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..


If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

Show Image
(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-2.gif)


So its a higher quality RD that actuates in the middle instead of the bottom?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 23 January 2014, 16:56:29
I have both a Topre and a Filco with MX Browns. While I honestly am a bit up in the air about which switch I prefer, I still think Topre boards are absolutely worth their price.

MX Browns are easier to press than Topre switches, which is one thing I like more about MX Browns than Topre switches. Topre switches, however, are SIGNIFICANTLY much more smooth (ie. very little wobble) and more solid than MX switches. The feel is addicting and hard to get over. 

Also, the build quality of the Topre Realforce is a step above than the Filco. I can flex the Filco board (this is a Majestouch 2, btw) more than I can flex my Realforce board.

Furthermore, consider that my Filco cost around $150, with just ABS keycaps. If I want a set of PBT Dyesubs for the Filco, it will cost an extra $100 or so, essentially making the Filco $250.

But if you consider that a Topre costs around $260, with PBT Dyesubs included already... then you can see Topre boards really aren't that much more expensive, or a ripoff, as other people make it out to be.

If you're curious about it, I strongly suggest you at least check it out. It will be easy to sell it back on the classifieds for around $220, which isn't a very big hit.

Edit: What tp4tissue says about Topre boards are absolute flat-out lies. Anyone who says a Topre switch feels just like any other rubber dome are being disingenuous, as they completely and purposefully leave out the fact that Topre switches are, again, much more solid, and much more smooth than not just any other typical rubber dome, but also Cherry MX switches.

Coming from someone who owns a Filco and an HHKB, you hit the nail on the head for every point, well said.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:07:47
Yes :)
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:23:56
Part of the nice feeling with Topre I guess has to do with the fact that it uses PCB for backend rather than membrane sheet. I personally find anything that sits on membrane sheets when not designed and thus manufactured properly feels crap and will only get worse over time. Anyone who had tried those APC membrane would know what I mean. On the contrary IBM Model M gets the raves without people having tried Model F.

One can see that the implementation of a switch (mechanical or rubber dome) over membrane has rated at lesser actuations than a switch that is over PCB. A good example of this is the deskthority wiki on buckling springs: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Buckling_spring. The Model M is rated by IBM at 25 million actuations whereas the Model F is rated upwards to 100 million actuations. I recall I read somewhere on the PFU website (in Japanese) that the lite series of HHKB (being rubber dome over membrane) is rated at 10 million keypresses whereas the Pro series of HHKB (being Topre switch) is rated at 30 million keypresses minimum. Lets not forget Cherry MY line for those familiar with Cherry series: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MY.
Quote from: deskthority wiki
The switch feel is generally described ranging from "too stiff" to "like typing on wet newspaper"[2] (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MY#cite_note-1) or "like prodding a dead octopus".


I hate to jump back to my APC membrane topic but one can clearly see when it comes to having a mechanical (or part thereof) over a membrane sheet requires an excessive amount of screws to affix the membrane sheet in place so that the the key inputs could be registered. Any loose or part thereof screw on the same implementation could result in undesired operation (usually the sounds would not be the same, poor rebounce and/or chattering or fails to register input altogether). This clearly goes to show that membrane sheets are an abhorrent design towards what a decent keyboard should be defined as.

Topre clearly is not just any "glorified" rubber dome/cup. There has been numerous citations on how membrane sheets can affect the feel and the amount of rated actuations as opposed to a simple fact of mis-interpreting the different implementations thus the overall price variations between rubber dome over membrane versus rubber dome/cup over PCB.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: swill on Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:29:10
My advice is, try it before you buy it.

For some people topre will be their ultimate switch.

My topre is starting to grow on me, but I still can't use it for a 12 hour coding session without it hurting my hands.  I don't even know why, but the joints in my fingers hurt after doing long sessions with it.

It has a very special feel, but I enjoy going back and forth between my MX and topre.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:56:21
Ah I see, I mean I love MX Reds and the Topre that I'm looking at does seem to be quite light and what not.
I'm a programmer/coder, spend pretty much all day, every day on my computer but one thing that I don't like is the fact that it's quite close to a rubber dome, I do not like that feel one bit to be quite honest. But then others have said that the feeling of typing on a topre is amazing and obviously if I bought this and liked it then it could be a great investment, I think I'll have to try and find a friend or a friend of a friend with one before buying, it's a lot of money to splash out on a keyboard.

Topre will be heavier than reds by a lot...Unless you get 30g type Topre....

But as far as hating rubber dome..people need to recognize what they dislike about rubber dome..most people don't like that it isn't that stable, it feels uneven, you have to bottom out to actuate...Then you have higher quality rubber domes which are a bit more stable, a bit more even but still need to bottom out and you hit this uneven mush when you do..

Topre will have the same tactile feel of a rubber dome (where it collapses) which is where the similarity starts and ends...You then have a very very smooth action (some rubber domes also have a very smooth action) which is VERY stable.  A LOT more stable than what you'll see from pretty much all other rubber dome keyboards.  Because it actuates in the middle of the push, the keys will feel a lot more responsive....Then you have the feel when you bottom out (which you will).  The bottom creates a nice solid feel that isn't harsh. It is also incredibly stable and doesn't seem to wobble around...

It has huge similarities to rubber dome..because there is a rubber dome and a lot of people when first using Topre will think, it feels just like any other rubber dome keyboard....That is why a lot of people suggest trying it out for longer than just a few hours...give it a month...go back and forth between it and your other keyboards.  You'll start to notice it isn't just like your normal rubber domes at all....If you still don't like it, just sell it..
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: kfmfe04 on Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:58:14
post-hhkb, my Filco is gathering dust - I've lost all interest in MX-boards except some ergonomics (AcidFire, Kinesis).

The funny thing is, the first time I tried hhkb several years ago, by accident in Akihabara, I didn't understand why it was so expensive.  Even after I bought my hhkb about a month ago, I had buyer's remorse - out of the box, they felt like MX browns which I really hate (my favorites are MX reds) - I just didn't like that bump.

Then after about 10 days, the board started to break in - the downward action got much smoother and the thocking sound started to really kick in.  I was starting to get that bubble-pop touch-and-feel - FANTASTIC!  It is now my main board - I'm even considering buying a second one so that I can have one for the desktop without having to disconnect/connect the USB all the time. 

I like the thocking so much that I don't know why people want to silence their hhkb.  I will have to find an S-type to try and find out.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 23 January 2014, 18:01:36
post-hhkb, my Filco is gathering dust - I've lost all interest in MX-boards except some ergonomics (AcidFire, Kinesis).

The funny thing is, the first time I tried hhkb several years ago, by accident in Akihabara, I didn't understand why it was so expensive.  Even after I bought my hhkb about a month ago, I had buyer's remorse - out of the box, they felt like MX browns which I really hate (my favorites are MX reds) - I just didn't like that bump.

Then after about 10 days, the board started to break in - the downward action got much smoother and the thocking sound started to really kick in.  I was starting to get that bubble-pop touch-and-feel - FANTASTIC!  It is now my main board - I'm even considering buying a second one so that I can have one for the desktop without having to disconnect/connect the USB all the time. 

I like the thocking so much that I don't know why people want to silence their hhkb.  I will have to find an S-type to try and find out.

The type-s thocks more!  Enhance your thock mang!
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 18:33:39
Coming from someone who owns a Filco and an HHKB, you hit the nail on the head for every point, well said.

Yes :)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Grim Fandango on Thu, 23 January 2014, 18:39:17
I finally got a chance to try out Topre, and I have to say it is really nice. I am going to stick with my Cherry MX switches, just because I think Topre are a little more expensive than what I am willing to pay, and while I like them a lot, I do not have a clear preference of Topre over everything else.

Whether it is worth the switch or not is really not a question that someone else can answer for you.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 18:47:21
And if you decide Topre is not for you, you can resell the board for pretty much what you paid for it.

Minimal financial loss, keyboard variation experience gain.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Novus on Thu, 23 January 2014, 19:09:36
So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  :thumb: because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 23 January 2014, 19:19:15
So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  :thumb: because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

I think the feeling and craftsmanship between Realforce vs HHKB requires one to have both of those boards to be able to tell the difference. I think there is a difference in the design. Realforce does not have the slider housing as part of the keyboard shell unlike the HHKB. Beyond that I don't have much clues otherwise. Some people have mentioned about wanting something like having a metal plate backend for Topre and wishing it was available for HHKB (when HHKB doesn't)

The main attraction I think with HHKB is the portability mainly due to its size really. That and because of some of the key arrangements that defines minimalism as well as making it easier for those who probably run *nix with HHKB (such as the fact that the Control key takes place of where lies Caps Lock. Maybe if anything else is really the fandom that is around it, notable owners of assorted backgrounds have been noted to be using HHKB of some sort.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 23 January 2014, 19:39:04
Both the HHKB and RF are made very well....

The HHKB has a lot more thock to it though and for whatever reason, they feel slightly stiffer than 45g RF..

The RF, I'm assuming because of the plate, makes a bit less noise and seems a bit more solid when using it..Don't take solid to mean better though..because it just feels different.  To me the HHKB is a bit warmer feeling/sounding...The layout is actually quite good and it isn't just the portability that people like.  The better backspace position and the CTRL key is really nice (although the RF lets you do the same thing w/ the CTRL key).  The keyboard itself is just really pleasurable to type on...

I think when I first tried RF after having a HHKB, I was a bit shocked at how little thock there was in comparison..it almost seems dead...but after awhile you start appreciating the differences...It has basically the same feel, it is just a little bit different. 
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: VolantPhalanx on Thu, 23 January 2014, 21:49:04
Topres really are a very unique switch, in my opinion, and in this day and age are pretty essential to at least try for hardcore keyboard enthusiasts. While I admit, they are not the best for gaming, they are indescribably brilliant at typing long expanses of something like an essay or term paper. This is not to mention the layout of the HHKB, which as you almost surely know, is absolutely tiny and requires almost no hand movement to get your fingers where they need to be and doing what they need to do. Going back to what I said about gaming, if that is one of your interests, the reason I say Topres aren't very good is because they have a strong force pushing back up on the key after you depress. This makes is tiresome to keep one key pressed down for a long period of time, for example the W key while walking a large distance in an FPS or something. I would definitely recommend trying them at least once, you never know you might not ever switch back.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: mljs54 on Thu, 23 January 2014, 22:05:13
Take a leap of faith and get the HHKB.  There's a very high probability that move will save you a lot of money in the long run :)
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Linkbane on Thu, 23 January 2014, 22:38:40
If you are going the Topre path, I wouldn't really recommend getting something as expensive as the HHKB first. Maybe something with a profile you're more used to, like a RF 87 or even a FC660C are cheaper options with the same switch.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: ComradeSniper on Thu, 23 January 2014, 23:19:12
So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  :thumb: because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

The main thing I like about the HHKB is the layout. Now that I have got into coding a bit I actually find FN+[;'/ to be more efficient than dedicated arrow keys; it requires less hand movement and feels more natural once you're used to it. The case mounted switches also feel more snappy than a plate mount 45g like the FC660C to me. Not quite as much as the 55g Realforce, though, so I'd really like to try out a 55g HHKB, but if I put 55g domes into the HHKB I don't think I'd ever use anything else  :-X

A downside to the case mounted switches is that the keyboard is incredibly light due to the lack of a metal plate. It still feels solid to type on, but mine slides around my desk a little.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: kfmfe04 on Thu, 23 January 2014, 23:32:48
A downside to the case mounted switches is that the keyboard is incredibly light due to the lack of a metal plate. It still feels solid to type on, but mine slides around my desk a little.

The solution is simple: I always leave my hhkb on my lap where lightness is actually a virtue and leaves more space for the desktop.  In fact, this position minimizes shoulder and hand strain - I am able to code for much longer stretches and typeracer actually confirms that I actually gain about 5-8wpm.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Novus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 00:20:24
Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: KangarooZombies on Fri, 24 January 2014, 00:25:10
Topre is amazing.

Totally worth it.

HHKB is def worth if you're a coder.

Don't listen to "its just a rubber dome" that **** was debunked forever ago.

Source: Signature
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 24 January 2014, 00:29:56
Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?
Topre i want tried the switch,KMAC/sprit still traditional
Phantom PrinsValium symmetric :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: atlas3686 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 00:56:20
Aside from the HHKB being damn sexy even to non-keyboard people :)  It is absolutely amazing to work on, the type-s feels even more precise could be to do with the silencing I don't really know but it definitely feels very firm and exact on each key press. The sound is great as well although the type-s is pretty silent it has a lovely deep thock sound, the std. has a great sound as well though it just has more of the high pitched sound of plastic hitting plastic on the upstroke. I definitely find Topre to be my ultimate switch, I prefer heavier switches though so really keen to try out the 55g.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Emospence on Fri, 24 January 2014, 02:16:50
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That said, try it first
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Novus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 02:32:58
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That said, try it first

Here in the holy grail of capitalism, we're SOL when it comes to actually trying things first :/ ... at least when they don't appeal to a broad audience
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 24 January 2014, 03:08:10
Topre is amazing.

Totally worth it.

HHKB is def worth if you're a coder.

Don't listen to "its just a rubber dome" that **** was debunked forever ago.

Source: Signature

But mainly a Unix coder - Windows IDEs tend to rely too much on the arrow keys, Home, End, Page Up/Down and function keys.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tribade on Fri, 24 January 2014, 16:23:43
Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Why not both?   :))

I went from a razer blackwidow to HHKB to KMAC, and I honestly couldn't really choose between those last two.  So I switch between them pretty regularly.  Sometimes I just long to be one with the cuprubber  :p
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Novus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:31:10
Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Why not both?   :))

I went from a razer blackwidow to HHKB to KMAC, and I honestly couldn't really choose between those last two.  So I switch between them pretty regularly.  Sometimes I just long to be one with the cuprubber  :p

I'm too lazy to unplug keyboards and then walk over to the keyboard storage.
Then I have to wrap and secure the cord and then get another keyboard, unwrap the cord and plug it in.
Way too tedious  :p
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Danule on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:32:07
After having one for 8 months I'd say yes. It is my favorite keyboard to type on, worth the price.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: tribade on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:39:35
Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Why not both?   :))

I went from a razer blackwidow to HHKB to KMAC, and I honestly couldn't really choose between those last two.  So I switch between them pretty regularly.  Sometimes I just long to be one with the cuprubber  :p

I'm too lazy to unplug keyboards and then walk over to the keyboard storage.
Then I have to wrap and secure the cord and then get another keyboard, unwrap the cord and plug it in.
Way too tedious  :p

Haha, well that's the best part about my desk at school; it has a drawer that is perfectly TKL sized and therefore perfect for the good ol' keyboard hot swap.  The model M and QFR get the closet treatment, though.  They're for special occasions  :p
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:34:44
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:40:54
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

Your doing it wrong :P :D
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Sniping on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:41:52
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

Your doing it wrong :P :D

*Type-S*
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:47:46
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

Your doing it wrong :P :D

I bottom err day, I'm not ashamed  :p
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:48:35
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

Your doing it wrong :P :D

I bottom err day, I'm not ashamed  :p

I'm curious if those hi-profile caps are louder also?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: terran5992 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:54:20
Worth every penny
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: geogga on Fri, 24 January 2014, 21:43:49
Personally, the only reason I don't like HHKB is the control key. I mean yes, it makes it more unique than other 60% keyboards but I need it for gaming; it is my crouch key. I have been accustomed to it for years and since getting a computer. But as that fellow mentioned, you can use caps lock to crouch, using your ring finger instead of your pinky( I don't find any strain or fatigue after sessions) but I havnt tried that..
A realforce would be the more realistic approach. I have yet to get one, hopefully I try it if not resell it.
Good luck
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: kfmfe04 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 23:01:49
Personally, the control key is the premier reason for my wanting the hhkb.

UNIX placement is ideal for C++/vim/emacs programming.

For years, I would only buy the Japanese version of the MacBook Pro because the control key is in the right place.  These days, built-in software switching in OSX makes this less of an issue, but that's still the first thing I look for in any OS/keyboard combination.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 24 January 2014, 23:30:14
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

Your doing it wrong :P :D

I bottom err day, I'm not ashamed  :p

I'm curious if those hi-profile caps are louder also?

I guess they must be, but I have no comparison.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 24 January 2014, 23:59:33
Also Topre is louder than many of my MX boards, save for blues. It's the first time my roommates ever complained about my late night clackings.

My HHKB is the quietest recent keyboard I have.

Except, maybe, for something with MX black if I don't bottom out, but then I bottom out all the time :)
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Sat, 25 January 2014, 03:29:17
Interesting... I'm pretty sure my Filco with MX Browns are louder than my RF87u.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: kfmfe04 on Sat, 25 January 2014, 03:36:30
My experience is the same as that of Rowdy's - my hhkb is much quieter than my Filco TKL MX Reds with doubleshots.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: atlas3686 on Sat, 25 January 2014, 03:44:35
Ya the hhkb is quite silent. My Filco with browns is definitely louder. As rowdy said I think if you don't bottom out blacks they can be a little quieter. The type-s is almost entirely silent except for the awesome dull thock.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: nar on Sat, 25 January 2014, 10:53:24
Gotta remember your also paying a lot for default PBT keycaps and having it all made in Japan. The Type Heaven is much closer in price to a normal Filco and still uses the same Topre switches so you can try that if your worried about the price.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: HongKongFui on Sat, 25 January 2014, 12:22:38
For me they're not worth it, for others they are worth it.

what else can you say? nothing...
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Ghetto Caps on Sat, 25 January 2014, 12:24:39
if only they made a topre switch tester for like 10 bucks
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: dustinhxc on Sat, 25 January 2014, 12:46:10
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)

Get a keychain! I have an MX board Clears Lubed, MX numberpad Browns, and HHKB Pro 2 45G Dental Banded, 2 MX Keychains (i swap switch types in them all the time, right now blue and clear), 2 Topre keychains (Realforce Brand)

I love both, ill be honest. If the MX isnt lubed than I dont like it but lubed I love it. Topre I love unlubed or lubed. Just get one. Dont switch but enjoy both like me.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Linkbane on Sat, 25 January 2014, 14:47:26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)

Get a keychain! I have an MX board Clears Lubed, MX numberpad Browns, and HHKB Pro 2 45G Dental Banded, 2 MX Keychains (i swap switch types in them all the time, right now blue and clear), 2 Topre keychains (Realforce Brand)

I love both, ill be honest. If the MX isnt lubed than I dont like it but lubed I love it. Topre I love unlubed or lubed. Just get one. Dont switch but enjoy both like me.  :thumb:

That's nearly the price of a QFR on sale.. Someone would make a fortune selling a 104u's switches in acrylic for $15 each.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: mljs54 on Sat, 25 January 2014, 14:50:22
I'm sure this has been said but If you happen to like Topre switches I would look at it this way:

Once you get good caps for any of the higher-end MX boards (e.g. Filco), you're not *that* far off in price from a used Realforce/HHKB @ ~$180-220USD (HHKB obviously on the higher end of this range); you can get some fantastic Topre boards here in the classifieds that are basically like-new... seldom used in rotation, person bought from EK and didn't like the switches/layout, etc..  The price difference is really marginal especially for something that will potentially be your daily driver keyboard.  I happen to love the switches much more than MX and the premium I paid for both my HHKB and RF (both used from the classifieds here) to me is worth it.  Also, I happen to personally think the white HHKB and RF are the best stock looking boards you can buy outside of those $400-500 Korean KBs, and as a minimalist, I don't really need to do anything to them and am really content with what is on my desk at the moment.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: neunelfer on Sat, 25 January 2014, 15:27:03
Personally, the only reason I don't like HHKB is the control key. I mean yes, it makes it more unique than other 60% keyboards but I need it for gaming; it is my crouch key. I have been accustomed to it for years and since getting a computer. But as that fellow mentioned, you can use caps lock to crouch, using your ring finger instead of your pinky( I don't find any strain or fatigue after sessions) but I havnt tried that..
A realforce would be the more realistic approach. I have yet to get one, hopefully I try it if not resell it.
Good luck

If you were to use your ring finger, you would lose full WASD movement while crouching. I've always been accustomed to the control key, but had no problems adjusting to caps lock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)

Get a keychain!

Sorry, but I think this is a bad idea - spending almost a quarter of what a Realforce would cost for a single switch? You can barely get a sense for the characteristics of a switch from a single key.

Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: dustinhxc on Sat, 25 January 2014, 15:37:42
Personally, the only reason I don't like HHKB is the control key. I mean yes, it makes it more unique than other 60% keyboards but I need it for gaming; it is my crouch key. I have been accustomed to it for years and since getting a computer. But as that fellow mentioned, you can use caps lock to crouch, using your ring finger instead of your pinky( I don't find any strain or fatigue after sessions) but I havnt tried that..
A realforce would be the more realistic approach. I have yet to get one, hopefully I try it if not resell it.
Good luck

If you were to use your ring finger, you would lose full WASD movement while crouching. I've always been accustomed to the control key, but had no problems adjusting to caps lock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)

Get a keychain!

Sorry, but I think this is a bad idea - spending almost a quarter of what a Realforce would cost for a single switch? You can barely get a sense for the characteristics of a switch from a single key.

I know, the boards are so spendy so if he wasnt willing to drop $240 + Shipping then just get the keychain for 1/6 the price.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 25 January 2014, 18:00:06
if only they made a topre switch tester for like 10 bucks

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38541.0
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: neunelfer on Sat, 25 January 2014, 18:31:04
Personally, the only reason I don't like HHKB is the control key. I mean yes, it makes it more unique than other 60% keyboards but I need it for gaming; it is my crouch key. I have been accustomed to it for years and since getting a computer. But as that fellow mentioned, you can use caps lock to crouch, using your ring finger instead of your pinky( I don't find any strain or fatigue after sessions) but I havnt tried that..
A realforce would be the more realistic approach. I have yet to get one, hopefully I try it if not resell it.
Good luck

If you were to use your ring finger, you would lose full WASD movement while crouching. I've always been accustomed to the control key, but had no problems adjusting to caps lock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)

Get a keychain!

Sorry, but I think this is a bad idea - spending almost a quarter of what a Realforce would cost for a single switch? You can barely get a sense for the characteristics of a switch from a single key.

I know, the boards are so spendy so if he wasnt willing to drop $240 + Shipping then just get the keychain for 1/6 the price.

The $199 45g is a really good deal, and they could always sell it on here if they didn't like it.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Emospence on Sat, 25 January 2014, 18:44:07
Here in the holy grail of capitalism, we're SOL when it comes to actually trying things first :/ ... at least when they don't appeal to a broad audience

Just buy one then, you will probably like it.

If not, if you're located in the US, they shouldn't be too hard to sell
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: HAL9000 on Sun, 26 January 2014, 04:19:26
I bought my first Topre 2 months ago. I chose the 55g version since I have been using IBM Model M for the last 20 years. I realy like it.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: robertsig on Mon, 27 January 2014, 08:00:16
I enjoy a uniform Topre 45g more than any keyboard I've owned.  The Topre 55g version is second.  But I was not a die hard mechanical keyboard guy, so I'm not expecting Cherry behavior.  I have a Cherry MX Clear based board on order, and I imagine an ergo version of that might be close, but not quite.  I prefer silent keys the most, but can't make the switch (pun intended) to a scissor based board for those extra couple decibels.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: noons on Mon, 27 January 2014, 08:49:59
I enjoy a uniform Topre 45g more than any keyboard I've owned.  The Topre 55g version is second.  But I was not a die hard mechanical keyboard guy, so I'm not expecting Cherry behavior.  I have a Cherry MX Clear based board on order, and I imagine an ergo version of that might be close, but not quite.  I prefer silent keys the most, but can't make the switch (pun intended) to a scissor based board for those extra couple decibels.

I love my Topre 45g as well, however I also enjoy my cherry mx brown at work. I think my fingers just like the different experience both offer. After typing all weekend on my Topre going to the office and typing on my browns I am always like " wow I love these things" then vice versa when I get home. For me I wouldn't say it is worth the switch entirely as I still enjoy my mx browns, however I would say it is definitely worth the purchase.

I owned a HHKB pro 2 for a month or two at one point however I just couldn't get used to the layout. The thing that killed me the most, more then the arrow keys was the placement of the \ and the backspace. I am in a linux terminal almost all day and constantly use | , so when I would get to work or use my laptop I constantly made mistakes. Only way I could use one is if I used it exclusively, bouncing back and forth just didn't work out for me.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 27 January 2014, 09:30:21
I owned a HHKB pro 2 for a month or two at one point however I just couldn't get used to the layout. The thing that killed me the most, more then the arrow keys was the placement of the \ and the backspace. I am in a linux terminal almost all day and constantly use | , so when I would get to work or use my laptop I constantly made mistakes. Only way I could use one is if I used it exclusively, bouncing back and forth just didn't work out for me.
                                           

When I first got my HHKB I had the same problem.  I told myself either I'd get used to going back and forth between the HHKB backspace and the normal one or I'd probably end up selling it.  It took awhile but for whatever reason, it is completely natural to go back and forth..I'm not quite sure why either...Same with the CTRL key although for whatever oddball reason, when using my RF, even though I've moved the CTRL key to the same position as it is on my HHKB, it isn't as natural for me to use it..not sure why...

I just figure it is like learning to drive on both sides of the road..it is hard to switch back and forth but eventually you can do it...
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: mljs54 on Mon, 27 January 2014, 10:41:47
I owned a HHKB pro 2 for a month or two at one point however I just couldn't get used to the layout. The thing that killed me the most, more then the arrow keys was the placement of the \ and the backspace. I am in a linux terminal almost all day and constantly use | , so when I would get to work or use my laptop I constantly made mistakes. Only way I could use one is if I used it exclusively, bouncing back and forth just didn't work out for me.
                                           

When I first got my HHKB I had the same problem.  I told myself either I'd get used to going back and forth between the HHKB backspace and the normal one or I'd probably end up selling it.  It took awhile but for whatever reason, it is completely natural to go back and forth..I'm not quite sure why either...Same with the CTRL key although for whatever oddball reason, when using my RF, even though I've moved the CTRL key to the same position as it is on my HHKB, it isn't as natural for me to use it..not sure why...

I just figure it is like learning to drive on both sides of the road..it is hard to switch back and forth but eventually you can do it...

I don't have the Ctrl / Backspace issue either going back and forth between HHKB at home and a standard 104 layout at work (can't even swap Ctrl/Caps because of no admins rights).

The hardest thing to get used to on the HHKB for me was/is naturally knowing where Home/End was vs. Page Up/Page Pown without thinking about it (i.e. looking down at the keys or hovering over slowly from the arrow diamond).  The arrow diamond is actually really natural and didn't take more than a day to get used to.  Same thing with ~/Del.

If you use the HHKB exclusively, I don't see it taking more than a week (maybe?) to get used to the layout IMO.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 27 January 2014, 19:40:04
Yeah, it isn't the layout that is was the problem...it was switching back and forth that was difficult at first...I'd get used to the backspace on the HHKB...I'd have dozens of \\\\ when going back to any other keyboard..it was really painful (although oddly enough, going back to the HHKB I didn't have issues..it was always going back to a normal layout after using a HHKB). 

Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 27 January 2014, 20:07:39
You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..


If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

Show Image
(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-2.gif)


Well if this isn't opinion stated as fact again...

As to the OP: vintage blacks and topre are some of my favorite switches. They're quite different though. If you're totally happy with your reds, then you don't really need to worry about topre. If you want a smooth tactile and "thocky" switch, you might like topre. Unfortunately, the only real way to find out is to try it.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Linkbane on Mon, 27 January 2014, 20:36:22
Just got my own board, and I honestly think that there isn't really particularly much 'thock' to it, but it's very comfortable nevertheless. Maybe I wouldn't recommend it for the price, but it's still quite nice nevertheless.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 27 January 2014, 20:41:39
Give it some time.  I think Topre is very underwhelming for people when they first try it...It isn't until you've used it awhile, compared it with Cherry MX and going back and forth do you start appreciating it.  You'll then start seeing how it differs from normal rubber dome keyboards because at first they'll seem very similar....

I think the worst thing you can do it evaluate it for a few minutes/hours/days and think you know what it'll be like.  It isn't like your resale will be impacted if you use it for a bit longer and see...
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:24:21
Is there a topre tester?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Novus on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:25:19
Is there a topre tester?

Rich friends ;)
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:26:14
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:26:58
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Linkbane on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:27:23
Give it some time.  I think Topre is very underwhelming for people when they first try it...It isn't until you've used it awhile, compared it with Cherry MX and going back and forth do you start appreciating it.  You'll then start seeing how it differs from normal rubber dome keyboards because at first they'll seem very similar....

I think the worst thing you can do it evaluate it for a few minutes/hours/days and think you know what it'll be like.  It isn't like your resale will be impacted if you use it for a bit longer and see...

The first thing I did was compare it to a RD, and notice the differences which separate it. Perhaps the tactility is of the dome variety, but it's very comfortable and not so harsh to type on. It's also rather difficult to not bottom out on, especially compared to my Blue boards. Also, it's taking some time getting used to the layout, but overall no complaints (except the annoying lack of cable channels).

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

You cancelled it, don't you remember?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:28:13
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

well for now you can buy one off ebay

one day there might be one for sale from one of the members here but he's a busy guy
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:29:23
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

well for now you can buy one off ebay

one day there might be one for sale from one of the members here but he's a busy guy

got a link? topre keychain and realforce keychain got 0 results.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: neunelfer on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:30:32
Just got my own board, and I honestly think that there isn't really particularly much 'thock' to it, but it's very comfortable nevertheless. Maybe I wouldn't recommend it for the price, but it's still quite nice nevertheless.

I think most of the thock with the HHKB comes from the switches being case mounted as opposed to plate mounted.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:31:30
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

well for now you can buy one off ebay

one day there might be one for sale from one of the members here but he's a busy guy

got a link? topre keychain and realforce keychain got 0 results.

feng had them recently perhaps they sold out
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:32:24
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

well for now you can buy one off ebay

one day there might be one for sale from one of the members here but he's a busy guy

got a link? topre keychain and realforce keychain got 0 results.

feng had them recently perhaps they sold out
:eek: how did I miss that :blank:
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:36:18
Is there a topre tester?

There was one on DT.

And there is always the Topre keychains.

Where do we get the keychain?

well for now you can buy one off ebay

one day there might be one for sale from one of the members here but he's a busy guy

got a link? topre keychain and realforce keychain got 0 results.

feng had them recently perhaps they sold out
:o how did I miss that :blank:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230996149797)


keychain is spelled wrong probably messing with the search function
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:39:01
6 of those and you have a HHKB!

Wait a second...
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:40:33
6 of those and you have a HHKB!

Wait a second...

yeah but you won't get a fancy realforce cap :P

and the blue model costs even more
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: demik on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:42:06
45 ****ing dollars for a keychain?

does it cook and clean?
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 21:42:48
45 ****ing dollars for a keychain?

does it cook and clean?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Realforce-Keycain-w-Blue-PBT-Dyesub-Keycap-/330896362942

$59 if you want blue
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: quickcrx702 on Mon, 27 January 2014, 23:54:49
As someone who owns or has owned every MX switch, multiple types of ALPS, BS, 45g and 55g Topre, I would say the 55g is definitely worth it.  The 45g doesn't feel that great to me to justify the cost.  TP and all the other Topre haters probably have only tried the lower weighted Topres, and I can see why they think they are overrated.  55g is only a 10g difference from the 45g, but it feels like much more.  The 55g is very tactile, more than MX blue or BS in my opinion, then very smooth to bottom out.  It feels like no other keyboard, in a very good way.  The 45g is just smooth, and feels like a really high end rubber dome.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: swill on Sat, 29 March 2014, 08:42:50
My normal switch is mx brown. My fc660c with 45g has been slowly growing on me. At first I found them heavy and they hurt my hands when using them for 8+ hours straight. I have been enjoying them more and more recently. I stuck with them because I absolutely LOVE the fc660 layout. I am not sure if they are breaking in or if I am just getting more comfortable on them, but they are getting much more comfortable for me. The build quality on this board is exceptional.
Title: Re: Topre - Are they worth the switch?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 29 March 2014, 10:26:18
I enjoy a uniform Topre 45g more than any keyboard I've owned.  The Topre 55g version is second.

This is where it is so much a matter of taste. For me the 45g kills all I like about the Topre switches. The 45g feels like an uber expensive rubberdome.

+1 for quietness. Almost as quiet as a rubberdome :-)

I'm a Topre all 55g junky (I like my 87U 55g so much, I even spent extra cash on it of different color caps and a Digilog case)
I'm a Topre 45g hater.

So AFAIC, Topre worth the switch only if you go for all 55g.