Topre - Are they worth the switch?

[Fragil1ty]

So I've been eying up buying a HHKB for a long time now, I've been a heavy Red switch user for the past year and a half and the topre keyboards that I've seen are around that force.

This is the one that I've been eying up:

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-87ub-variable-mini-black-on-black-keyboard.asp

I would love to get a HHKB but I am not willing to get it imported, it'll just cost too much and this is already very expensive for a keyboard, so what's the verdict? are they worth the price point? because I don't want to spend all this money on a KB if it's horrible and not what I'd like.

I am not able to try out the switch before hand, so that's my problem at the moment.

[SpAmRaY]

It all comes down to personal preference. No one can tell you if you will like it. Are you sure there isn't anyway you could find someone within travel distance that has one you could try out?

[Fragil1ty]

It all comes down to personal preference. No one can tell you if you will like it. Are you sure there isn't anyway you could find someone within travel distance that has one you could try out?

I don't think so, I don't have a lot of friends who tend to splash out keyboards, they're more hardware geeks and what not, not into their peripherals and what not.

[tuxsavvy]

I think it might be a safe bet to get a Realforce for starters before advancing to HHKB if need be. I hear constantly the customs in the EU are strict and unless you can get a person who can forward it to you somehow on some (dodgy) terms. It is hard otherwise.

Besides you can remap the keys as you need with Realforce without splashing money onto HHKB.

However, HHKB maybe worth the money if you really want something compact and features Topre switch. I have not tried Cherry MX Red so I cannot tell you if they are equivalent to Topre (in very crude way of course), however Cherry MX Browns feels lighter than Topre. I only know that is only because I got both Topre and MX Browns in front of me.

Most of the expensive price point with HHKB is mainly to do with the cult following behind it, if you have never tried HHKB or Topre it is good to try out something that is more known and better priced before jumping deep. Unless you have wads of cash (like I did) to spend on HHKB then by all means.

[tp4tissue]

You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..


If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

[tuxsavvy]

Yet the irony is that whatever seems to be cool in Japan seems to be bought and probably sold elsewhere in the world...

If Topre was selling snake oil and to be this successful to have clones, then it must be worth more than the "delusions" the "fanboys" are describing.

[osi]

I think it might be a safe bet to get a Realforce for starters before advancing to HHKB if need be. I hear constantly the customs in the EU are strict and unless you can get a person who can forward it to you somehow on some (dodgy) terms. It is hard otherwise.

Besides you can remap the keys as you need with Realforce without splashing money onto HHKB.

However, HHKB maybe worth the money if you really want something compact and features Topre switch. I have not tried Cherry MX Red so I cannot tell you if they are equivalent to Topre (in very crude way of course), however Cherry MX Browns feels lighter than Topre. I only know that is only because I got both Topre and MX Browns in front of me.

Most of the expensive price point with HHKB is mainly to do with the cult following behind it, if you have never tried HHKB or Topre it is good to try out something that is more known and better priced before jumping deep. Unless you have wads of cash (like I did) to spend on HHKB then by all means.

+1

[atlas3686]

Well I wish I had gone straight to Topre and skipped mx all together but then I would probably have still been curious. Never used a Realforce so can't give to much feedback on that but HHKBs are really great, I haven't heard many good things about the variable board though I would definitely consider uniform.

[yasuo]

You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..

because people like rubber different with plastic
If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

Show Image

because people like rubber different with plastic :rolleyes:

btw tuxsavvy you has cherry split :eek:

[eth0s]

Topre is definitely worth it.

It is NOT just another rubber dome.

The feel is much different.  You do not have to mash the hell out of each keypress to make sure it actuated.  Also there is none of that "pressing on a wet newspaper" feel you can get from a rubber dome keyboard.  (I know "wet newspapers" is what they say about Cherry MY switches, but it applies to rubber domes too.)

The technology of the capacitive switch is far superior to any rubber dome or mechanical Cherry switch.

The magic of "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber" is not an illusion.  It says so right on the box:



In the end, I do believe you will be able to re-sell your RealForce Keyboard to somebody in the UK via the GH classified section, in the unlikely event that you don't like it.  You may have to absorb a 10-30% loss depending on market demand at the moment of your sale, but you will not be stuck with it forever.

[tuxsavvy]

btw tuxsavvy you has cherry split

Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  )

[Abe]

That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one

[yasuo]

Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  )

no no,before symmetric your living not  harmonic, get μTRON your life will be harmony
or mod your Cherry split to symmetric

[eth0s]

That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game. 

[tuxsavvy]

Yup I sure do, getting for every one keyboard switch bears unique layout is my goal. I don't discriminate between switches/layouts (as much).

Now I can enjoy HHKB Pro JP and Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE living in harmony.  )

no no,before symmetric your living not  harmonic, get μTRON your life will be harmony
or mod your Cherry split to symmetric

Nah lol, my next step might (only might) be IBM SSK. Buckling spring with TKL layout. µTRON is just split keyboard with Topre. I already have HHKB for "Topre realm" hehe.

[neunelfer]

That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game.

Caps lock is definitely better as control for gaming, however, having to press FN + number for function keys is not ideal - I just use my Filco if I am playing a game that relies heavily on function keys.

[atlas3686]

That RealForce actually looks a more attractive option for Topre that you can use for gaming.

The lack of a dedicated left control on the HHKB makes it unfeasible for gaming imo.

Where abouts you based in the UK Fragil1ty? Would love to try a topre without having to splash out on one

No.  The HHKB layout is actually superior for gaming.  Switching Control for Caps Lock is a much better gaming layout.  No more straining your pinky finger to hit CTRL.  If however, you use Caps Lock to toggle run or something (who but a n00b does that?), then you will have to remap the keys.  Or learn to master Fn + Tab = Toggle run.  It's not a terrible way to play a game.

I have to agree with eth0s, I only recently moved to Topre and I love gaming on my HHKB!

[noisyturtle]

This is something that needs to be up to you. It sucks because it's a risky potential investment monetarily speaking, but your returns on the board if you decide to sell it shortly after getting it would be about the same amount as you originally paid.

In my personal opinion as someone who recently bought a Topre; I would say no, they are not worth the entry fee and feel much too close to a regular well put together rubber dome to warrant the mark up. If they were priced closer to say, a Filco ($150) I would say, defiantly yes, buy one with zero regrets.

[Fragil1ty]

This is something that needs to be up to you. It sucks because it's a risky potential investment monetarily speaking, but your returns on the board if you decide to sell it shortly after getting it would be about the same amount as you originally paid.

In my personal opinion as someone who recently bought a Topre; I would say no, they are not worth the entry fee and feel much too close to a regular well put together rubber dome to warrant the mark up. If they were priced closer to say, a Filco ($150) I would say, defiantly yes, buy one with zero regrets.

Ah I see, I mean I love MX Reds and the Topre that I'm looking at does seem to be quite light and what not.
I'm a programmer/coder, spend pretty much all day, every day on my computer but one thing that I don't like is the fact that it's quite close to a rubber dome, I do not like that feel one bit to be quite honest. But then others have said that the feeling of typing on a topre is amazing and obviously if I bought this and liked it then it could be a great investment, I think I'll have to try and find a friend or a friend of a friend with one before buying, it's a lot of money to splash out on a keyboard.

Thanks though.

[apotheosis]

I've been hacking on a Realforce for about 4 days now after a year with mx-blues.

It feels like a digital piano keyboard in a really good way. The bottoming out sensation is very similar, it just has half the travel distance of the piano.

I suspect that the capacitor switches could be hacked to give acceleration data if the pcb wasn't just sending digital data. I don't see how that would be useful, just an observation.

When switching back to low end domes, you can feel extreme similarities to the press, but the individual switches remove any discomfort from the process.

I'm glad I have both, though I'm having a tough time choosing a favorite. I think I'll stick to the topres at work just from the sound alone.

[Puddsy]

I dislike topre. It's soft, it's trying too hard to be tactile, you can't get custom keycaps for it, and it's too expensive.

[fuzzybaffy]

I have both a Topre and a Filco with MX Browns. While I honestly am a bit up in the air about which switch I prefer, I still think Topre boards are absolutely worth their price.

MX Browns are easier to press than Topre switches, which is one thing I like more about MX Browns than Topre switches. Topre switches, however, are SIGNIFICANTLY much more smooth (ie. very little wobble) and more solid than MX switches. The feel is addicting and hard to get over. 

Also, the build quality of the Topre Realforce is a step above than the Filco. I can flex the Filco board (this is a Majestouch 2, btw) more than I can flex my Realforce board.

Furthermore, consider that my Filco cost around $150, with just ABS keycaps. If I want a set of PBT Dyesubs for the Filco, it will cost an extra $100 or so, essentially making the Filco $250.

But if you consider that a Topre costs around $260, with PBT Dyesubs included already... then you can see Topre boards really aren't that much more expensive, or a ripoff, as other people make it out to be.

If you're curious about it, I strongly suggest you at least check it out. It will be easy to sell it back on the classifieds for around $220, which isn't a very big hit.

Edit: What tp4tissue says about Topre boards are absolute flat-out lies. Anyone who says a Topre switch feels just like any other rubber dome are being disingenuous, as they completely and purposefully leave out the fact that Topre switches are, again, much more solid, and much more smooth than not just any other typical rubber dome, but also Cherry MX switches.

[Pacifist]

You don't need to TRYOUT  a topre board..

It feels identical to any other rubber dome keyboard.. 

Heavy resistance at the top,,  once the dome buckles, it feels linear the rest of the way down.


The improvement of the Topre from rubber dome, is not in FEEL, it's mostly that it actuates at 2mm like cherry..


If you remember, on a rubber dome vanilla, there are times where you're compelled to Press the keys really hard to make sure they register...

That is alleviated by the 2mm travel distance..


THAT"S it..... anyone that tells you differently is delusional..... and merely trying to justify their purchase...



I am not saying the board isn't worth whatever they paid (market price is market price),

I'm merely saying the Fanbois are delusional and have created magical keyboard properties to which they attribute to Topre that DO NOT EXIST.

Show Image

So its a higher quality RD that actuates in the middle instead of the bottom?

[neunelfer]

I have both a Topre and a Filco with MX Browns. While I honestly am a bit up in the air about which switch I prefer, I still think Topre boards are absolutely worth their price.

MX Browns are easier to press than Topre switches, which is one thing I like more about MX Browns than Topre switches. Topre switches, however, are SIGNIFICANTLY much more smooth (ie. very little wobble) and more solid than MX switches. The feel is addicting and hard to get over. 

Also, the build quality of the Topre Realforce is a step above than the Filco. I can flex the Filco board (this is a Majestouch 2, btw) more than I can flex my Realforce board.

Furthermore, consider that my Filco cost around $150, with just ABS keycaps. If I want a set of PBT Dyesubs for the Filco, it will cost an extra $100 or so, essentially making the Filco $250.

But if you consider that a Topre costs around $260, with PBT Dyesubs included already... then you can see Topre boards really aren't that much more expensive, or a ripoff, as other people make it out to be.

If you're curious about it, I strongly suggest you at least check it out. It will be easy to sell it back on the classifieds for around $220, which isn't a very big hit.

Edit: What tp4tissue says about Topre boards are absolute flat-out lies. Anyone who says a Topre switch feels just like any other rubber dome are being disingenuous, as they completely and purposefully leave out the fact that Topre switches are, again, much more solid, and much more smooth than not just any other typical rubber dome, but also Cherry MX switches.

Coming from someone who owns a Filco and an HHKB, you hit the nail on the head for every point, well said.

[rowdy]

Yes

[tuxsavvy]

Part of the nice feeling with Topre I guess has to do with the fact that it uses PCB for backend rather than membrane sheet. I personally find anything that sits on membrane sheets when not designed and thus manufactured properly feels crap and will only get worse over time. Anyone who had tried those APC membrane would know what I mean. On the contrary IBM Model M gets the raves without people having tried Model F.

One can see that the implementation of a switch (mechanical or rubber dome) over membrane has rated at lesser actuations than a switch that is over PCB. A good example of this is the deskthority wiki on buckling springs: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Buckling_spring. The Model M is rated by IBM at 25 million actuations whereas the Model F is rated upwards to 100 million actuations. I recall I read somewhere on the PFU website (in Japanese) that the lite series of HHKB (being rubber dome over membrane) is rated at 10 million keypresses whereas the Pro series of HHKB (being Topre switch) is rated at 30 million keypresses minimum. Lets not forget Cherry MY line for those familiar with Cherry series: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MY.

The switch feel is generally described ranging from "too stiff" to "like typing on wet newspaper"^[2] or "like prodding a dead octopus".

I hate to jump back to my APC membrane topic but one can clearly see when it comes to having a mechanical (or part thereof) over a membrane sheet requires an excessive amount of screws to affix the membrane sheet in place so that the the key inputs could be registered. Any loose or part thereof screw on the same implementation could result in undesired operation (usually the sounds would not be the same, poor rebounce and/or chattering or fails to register input altogether). This clearly goes to show that membrane sheets are an abhorrent design towards what a decent keyboard should be defined as.

Topre clearly is not just any "glorified" rubber dome/cup. There has been numerous citations on how membrane sheets can affect the feel and the amount of rated actuations as opposed to a simple fact of mis-interpreting the different implementations thus the overall price variations between rubber dome over membrane versus rubber dome/cup over PCB.

[swill]

My advice is, try it before you buy it.

For some people topre will be their ultimate switch.

My topre is starting to grow on me, but I still can't use it for a 12 hour coding session without it hurting my hands.  I don't even know why, but the joints in my fingers hurt after doing long sessions with it.

It has a very special feel, but I enjoy going back and forth between my MX and topre.

[Polymer]

Ah I see, I mean I love MX Reds and the Topre that I'm looking at does seem to be quite light and what not.
I'm a programmer/coder, spend pretty much all day, every day on my computer but one thing that I don't like is the fact that it's quite close to a rubber dome, I do not like that feel one bit to be quite honest. But then others have said that the feeling of typing on a topre is amazing and obviously if I bought this and liked it then it could be a great investment, I think I'll have to try and find a friend or a friend of a friend with one before buying, it's a lot of money to splash out on a keyboard.

Topre will be heavier than reds by a lot...Unless you get 30g type Topre....

But as far as hating rubber dome..people need to recognize what they dislike about rubber dome..most people don't like that it isn't that stable, it feels uneven, you have to bottom out to actuate...Then you have higher quality rubber domes which are a bit more stable, a bit more even but still need to bottom out and you hit this uneven mush when you do..

Topre will have the same tactile feel of a rubber dome (where it collapses) which is where the similarity starts and ends...You then have a very very smooth action (some rubber domes also have a very smooth action) which is VERY stable.  A LOT more stable than what you'll see from pretty much all other rubber dome keyboards.  Because it actuates in the middle of the push, the keys will feel a lot more responsive....Then you have the feel when you bottom out (which you will).  The bottom creates a nice solid feel that isn't harsh. It is also incredibly stable and doesn't seem to wobble around...

It has huge similarities to rubber dome..because there is a rubber dome and a lot of people when first using Topre will think, it feels just like any other rubber dome keyboard....That is why a lot of people suggest trying it out for longer than just a few hours...give it a month...go back and forth between it and your other keyboards.  You'll start to notice it isn't just like your normal rubber domes at all....If you still don't like it, just sell it..

[kfmfe04]

post-hhkb, my Filco is gathering dust - I've lost all interest in MX-boards except some ergonomics (AcidFire, Kinesis).

The funny thing is, the first time I tried hhkb several years ago, by accident in Akihabara, I didn't understand why it was so expensive.  Even after I bought my hhkb about a month ago, I had buyer's remorse - out of the box, they felt like MX browns which I really hate (my favorites are MX reds) - I just didn't like that bump.

Then after about 10 days, the board started to break in - the downward action got much smoother and the thocking sound started to really kick in.  I was starting to get that bubble-pop touch-and-feel - FANTASTIC!  It is now my main board - I'm even considering buying a second one so that I can have one for the desktop without having to disconnect/connect the USB all the time. 

I like the thocking so much that I don't know why people want to silence their hhkb.  I will have to find an S-type to try and find out.

[AKIMbO]

post-hhkb, my Filco is gathering dust - I've lost all interest in MX-boards except some ergonomics (AcidFire, Kinesis).

The funny thing is, the first time I tried hhkb several years ago, by accident in Akihabara, I didn't understand why it was so expensive.  Even after I bought my hhkb about a month ago, I had buyer's remorse - out of the box, they felt like MX browns which I really hate (my favorites are MX reds) - I just didn't like that bump.

Then after about 10 days, the board started to break in - the downward action got much smoother and the thocking sound started to really kick in.  I was starting to get that bubble-pop touch-and-feel - FANTASTIC!  It is now my main board - I'm even considering buying a second one so that I can have one for the desktop without having to disconnect/connect the USB all the time. 

I like the thocking so much that I don't know why people want to silence their hhkb.  I will have to find an S-type to try and find out.

The type-s thocks more!  Enhance your thock mang!

[fuzzybaffy]

Coming from someone who owns a Filco and an HHKB, you hit the nail on the head for every point, well said.

Yes

Thank you.

[Grim Fandango]

I finally got a chance to try out Topre, and I have to say it is really nice. I am going to stick with my Cherry MX switches, just because I think Topre are a little more expensive than what I am willing to pay, and while I like them a lot, I do not have a clear preference of Topre over everything else.

Whether it is worth the switch or not is really not a question that someone else can answer for you.

[rowdy]

And if you decide Topre is not for you, you can resell the board for pretty much what you paid for it.

Minimal financial loss, keyboard variation experience gain.

[Novus]

So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

[tuxsavvy]

So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

I think the feeling and craftsmanship between Realforce vs HHKB requires one to have both of those boards to be able to tell the difference. I think there is a difference in the design. Realforce does not have the slider housing as part of the keyboard shell unlike the HHKB. Beyond that I don't have much clues otherwise. Some people have mentioned about wanting something like having a metal plate backend for Topre and wishing it was available for HHKB (when HHKB doesn't)

The main attraction I think with HHKB is the portability mainly due to its size really. That and because of some of the key arrangements that defines minimalism as well as making it easier for those who probably run *nix with HHKB (such as the fact that the Control key takes place of where lies Caps Lock. Maybe if anything else is really the fandom that is around it, notable owners of assorted backgrounds have been noted to be using HHKB of some sort.

[Polymer]

Both the HHKB and RF are made very well....

The HHKB has a lot more thock to it though and for whatever reason, they feel slightly stiffer than 45g RF..

The RF, I'm assuming because of the plate, makes a bit less noise and seems a bit more solid when using it..Don't take solid to mean better though..because it just feels different.  To me the HHKB is a bit warmer feeling/sounding...The layout is actually quite good and it isn't just the portability that people like.  The better backspace position and the CTRL key is really nice (although the RF lets you do the same thing w/ the CTRL key).  The keyboard itself is just really pleasurable to type on...

I think when I first tried RF after having a HHKB, I was a bit shocked at how little thock there was in comparison..it almost seems dead...but after awhile you start appreciating the differences...It has basically the same feel, it is just a little bit different. 

[VolantPhalanx]

Topres really are a very unique switch, in my opinion, and in this day and age are pretty essential to at least try for hardcore keyboard enthusiasts. While I admit, they are not the best for gaming, they are indescribably brilliant at typing long expanses of something like an essay or term paper. This is not to mention the layout of the HHKB, which as you almost surely know, is absolutely tiny and requires almost no hand movement to get your fingers where they need to be and doing what they need to do. Going back to what I said about gaming, if that is one of your interests, the reason I say Topres aren't very good is because they have a strong force pushing back up on the key after you depress. This makes is tiresome to keep one key pressed down for a long period of time, for example the W key while walking a large distance in an FPS or something. I would definitely recommend trying them at least once, you never know you might not ever switch back.

[mljs54]

Take a leap of faith and get the HHKB.  There's a very high probability that move will save you a lot of money in the long run

[Linkbane]

If you are going the Topre path, I wouldn't really recommend getting something as expensive as the HHKB first. Maybe something with a profile you're more used to, like a RF 87 or even a FC660C are cheaper options with the same switch.

[ComradeSniper]

So in terms of feeling and craftsmanship not customization or keyboard firmware programming etc etc is HKKB > Realforce?
Most people seem to be recommending HKKB, heck we've even got that HKKB badge of honor/pecking order here, so i'm just wondering if that is only because of the versatility of HKKB or other factors.


Also thanks for starting this thread  because I've also been recently wondering the same exact thing.

The main thing I like about the HHKB is the layout. Now that I have got into coding a bit I actually find FN+[;'/ to be more efficient than dedicated arrow keys; it requires less hand movement and feels more natural once you're used to it. The case mounted switches also feel more snappy than a plate mount 45g like the FC660C to me. Not quite as much as the 55g Realforce, though, so I'd really like to try out a 55g HHKB, but if I put 55g domes into the HHKB I don't think I'd ever use anything else 

A downside to the case mounted switches is that the keyboard is incredibly light due to the lack of a metal plate. It still feels solid to type on, but mine slides around my desk a little.

[kfmfe04]

A downside to the case mounted switches is that the keyboard is incredibly light due to the lack of a metal plate. It still feels solid to type on, but mine slides around my desk a little.

The solution is simple: I always leave my hhkb on my lap where lightness is actually a virtue and leaves more space for the desktop.  In fact, this position minimizes shoulder and hand strain - I am able to code for much longer stretches and typeracer actually confirms that I actually gain about 5-8wpm.

[Novus]

Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

[KangarooZombies]

Topre is amazing.

Totally worth it.

HHKB is def worth if you're a coder.

Don't listen to "its just a rubber dome" that **** was debunked forever ago.

Source: Signature

[yasuo]

Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Topre i want tried the switch,KMAC/sprit still traditional
Phantom PrinsValium symmetric

[atlas3686]

Aside from the HHKB being damn sexy even to non-keyboard people   It is absolutely amazing to work on, the type-s feels even more precise could be to do with the silencing I don't really know but it definitely feels very firm and exact on each key press. The sound is great as well although the type-s is pretty silent it has a lovely deep thock sound, the std. has a great sound as well though it just has more of the high pitched sound of plastic hitting plastic on the upstroke. I definitely find Topre to be my ultimate switch, I prefer heavier switches though so really keen to try out the 55g.

[Emospence]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That said, try it first

[Novus]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That said, try it first

Here in the holy grail of capitalism, we're SOL when it comes to actually trying things first :/ ... at least when they don't appeal to a broad audience

[rowdy]

Topre is amazing.

Totally worth it.

HHKB is def worth if you're a coder.

Don't listen to "its just a rubber dome" that **** was debunked forever ago.

Source: Signature

But mainly a Unix coder - Windows IDEs tend to rely too much on the arrow keys, Home, End, Page Up/Down and function keys.

[tribade]

Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Why not both?   )

I went from a razer blackwidow to HHKB to KMAC, and I honestly couldn't really choose between those last two.  So I switch between them pretty regularly.  Sometimes I just long to be one with the cuprubber 

[Novus]

Okay now for the whammy.
TOPRE VS KMAC/PHANTOM or sprit custom.

NOW what do you pick?

Why not both?   )

I went from a razer blackwidow to HHKB to KMAC, and I honestly couldn't really choose between those last two.  So I switch between them pretty regularly.  Sometimes I just long to be one with the cuprubber 

I'm too lazy to unplug keyboards and then walk over to the keyboard storage.
Then I have to wrap and secure the cord and then get another keyboard, unwrap the cord and plug it in.
Way too tedious