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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Kamen Rider Blade on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:22:32
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad, and I'm not a fan of detached Numpads
What are the thoughts from you folks who like TKL and other smaller layouts?
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i personally am a huge fan of TKL. I like it because it feels more natural to have my mouse hand closer to the keyboard, and with the numpad it just feels too far away. also the way i have my keybinds set up in some games, like starcraft and dota, i have to have my keyboard tilted and the numpad would hang off the front of my desk.
honestly, before i tried TKL i didnt really get it either, but once i tried it, i dont want to go back.
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I never really use the numpad for anything. And I love the form factor of smaller boards. Especially 60% boards. If I ever need a numpad I'll probably get a separate one, just because I've grown so attached to my TKL and 60% keyboards. Although it would be an excuse to buy more keyboards...so maybe I'd get some new boards! Also having the mouse closer to the boards feels nicer to me. Plus I generally have a smaller desk so space is at a premium.
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I don't need a numpad. It's a waste of space. Makes for a bad posture as well. More ergonomic to have your hands closer. Aesthetics. A TKL basically have most of the keys I would get from a numpad on my TKL anyway. Never going back to full-size.
I don't work with excel, and if I did, I'd get a separate num pad, because it's simply better to have an option to put it away when I'm not going to crunch numbers as opposed to have it take up space 24/7. :))
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Many of the same reasons stated above: small desk space, and rarely need to use the numpad. Maybe if it didn't invade my mouse area I'd be more forgiving, but I need a small desk for my small room right now.
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Desk real estate. My keyboard tray is cramped and by having a smaller form factor board, it leaves more room for activities.
The num pad comes to use if numbers need to be crunched. Otherwise the number row becomes quite familiar.
Also I prefer the look of smaller boards
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I've never had any use for a numpad... ...with a hhkb, I can type on my lap or type in bed with a laptop - perfectly convenient and portable
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There are 3 distinct crowds on GH....
Collectors... they'll buy anything, in fact, that's essentially what they're trying to do, BUY EVERYTHING...
N00bs... they'll read a spec sheet and compare features they have no use for, then they'll buy something, it makes them happy as long as they can keep talking about it. <-most topre fanbois fall here...
USERS... the keyboard is an extension of oneself.. These people have an Egdx.. they sacrifice all aesthetics to pursue the most "usable" keyboard.
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I have a large desk and a huge keyboard, and I depend on the numpad constantly.
Sometime in the future, when and if I retire, I will not be dealing with lots of numbers regularly and may go to a small keyboard.
But I would really hate to give up the dedicated arrow keys, those are truly essential.
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
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I can't stand how much deskspace a fullsized keyboard takes up even if I did have a huge desk. If I needed a numberpad, which sometimes I do, I find and separate one to be much more convenient.
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i personally am a huge fan of TKL. I like it because it feels more natural to have my mouse hand closer to the keyboard, and with the numpad it just feels too far away. also the way i have my keybinds set up in some games, like starcraft and dota, i have to have my keyboard tilted and the numpad would hang off the front of my desk.
honestly, before i tried TKL i didnt really get it either, but once i tried it, i dont want to go back.
This
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
I can perfectly touch type number row..
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
My accuracy with the Numpad is pretty high, my accuracy with the number row isn't anywhere close to that.
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
I can perfectly touch type number row..
Yup, once you lose the numberpad, you learn quite quickly what on the number row is where including the symbols.
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I thought I couldn't live without the numpad either but what got me into TKL is that my mouse is now closer to my keyboard for when I'm gaming and allows me to swipe closer to the left. Even now I sometimes hit the right side of my keyboard with my mouse so I have a 60% keyboard I will eventually get around to swapping in. I honestly haven't used it much at all yet. Maybe it's the fear of losing my dedicated arrow keys and page up/page down. I did eventually get the hang of using the numbers along the top row though so maybe I don't really need those either. I will probably get a dedicated numpad and put that to the left of my 60% board or to the right of my mousepad.
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-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.
-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.
-Because it saves deskspace.
-Because there is nothing I use on the numpad that is not already somewhere else on the keyboard.
-Because I can still add a numpad though USB if I need the efficiency of the numpad layout.
-Because the frequency of use of the numpad does not justify the amount of space it takes up for home use (for me).
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I march to the beat of a different drummer.
I never game and keep a mouse on each side of the keyboard. My big irritation is not being able to find a left-hand vertical mouse I like.
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I march to the beat of a different drummer.
I never game and keep a mouse on each side of the keyboard. My big irritation is not being able to find a left-hand vertical mouse I like.
Ur nutzo....(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/070.gif)
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Most of the responses; it's quite comfortable to not have to reach as far when I use my mouse playing games, and also it's much more difficult to move a full-size keyboard around in a backpack in comparison to a TKL; it might not seem like a huge difference, but most backpacks can't fit a full-size without being damaged by the stretching unless they're really large. You might like the QF TK layout, which uses a numpad with a '00' key and therefore doubles as a navigation cluster and directional keys, which I personally found ingenious.
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i like my number pad on the left, or out of sight when im not using it.
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Is there a limit to how small your keyboard can be before it becomes unwieldy for you folks who like shortened keyboards?
Chopping off the Numberpad is common, but what about chopping off the arrow-key cluster, 6-key cluster, and 3-key cluster?
Which of those clusters can you live without or have assigned to somewhere else?
Just curious as to how far you folks are willing to shrink your keyboard?
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http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47133.0
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Desk space. I could fit a TKL but I like having the space between my Poker and mouse, which would otherwise be taken up by the tenkey.
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http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47133.0
Don't give him a heart attack man, small keyboards are bad and scary.
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There are 3 distinct crowds on GH....
Collectors... they'll buy anything, in fact, that's essentially what they're trying to do, BUY EVERYTHING...
N00bs... they'll read a spec sheet and compare features they have no use for, then they'll buy something, it makes them happy as long as they can keep talking about it. <-most topre fanbois fall here...
USERS... the keyboard is an extension of oneself.. These people have an Egdx.. they sacrifice all aesthetics to pursue the most "usable" keyboard.
+1 USERS
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My first couple of modern mechanical keyboards were full size, every one since then has been TKL or smaller (except the Model M).
The only time I miss the numpad is typing IP addresses.
Apart from that I enjoy the additional desk space it frees up.
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I use a TKL on one PC and a full size Cherry G80-3000 on the other.The best of both worlds!
I use the numpad for a trainer with GTA4.
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I use a TKL on one PC and a full size Cherry G80-3000 on the other.The best of both worlds!
I use the numpad for a trainer with GTA4.
I too used the numpad for the simple trainer on gta, but I just remapped them to normal keys after I got rid of my keyboard with a numpad on it.
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Engineering student here. I can't live without that numpad. :thumb:
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All I use are my Poker X and HHKB Pro 2 but I have to have my Leopold Numberpad next to them. I love numberpads. But I hate anything bigger then 60%
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
Yes. People REALLY can
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And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
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I can do that. I never look down at my keyboard, ever.
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-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.
-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.
^This.
TKL just looks so much better to me and now when I do use a full size keyboard, the fact that my trackball is further away makes using it uncomfortable.
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I think I'm in the cult of aesthetics; it both physically and mentally feels more uncomfortable to type on both because I know it's unergonomic and ugly.
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad
And others can.
It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
Yes. People REALLY can
I can touch type the number row if it is just a couple of numbers without thinking about it. For example, when I need to type 322, I can do so fast and accurately.
However, when I need to type a longer string of numbers it becomes a problem and I get confused. Even though my hand is still in kind of home-row position, I lose my sense of where my fingers are on the keyboard. A numpad is way, way faster for me (though I still use TKL).
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-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.
-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.
-Because it saves deskspace.
-Because there is nothing I use on the numpad that is not already somewhere else on the keyboard.
-Because I can still add a numpad though USB if I need the efficiency of the numpad layout.
-Because the frequency of use of the numpad does not justify the amount of space it takes up for home use (for me).
Hm... You can't use num lock elsewhere outside the keypad. B-)
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I only need numpad at work, I never need dedicated arrow keys. So fullsize is just a waste of space. 60% boards look awesome and when gaming it's helpful to have the mousehand close to the w a s d- hand...
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It is part ergonomics, part trimming excess (for those who never use the numpad), and part because smaller keyboards are sexier.
It is a trend. "Tenkeyless" used to be super-cool when there weren't many of them. Then the "75%", "60%" and even smaller custom keyboards have come more into fancy.
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I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.
What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.
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I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.
What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.
There are a few out there.
http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Keyboards/ROCCAT-Arvo/
http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfiretk/
http://www.logitech.com/product/keyboard-k360
I can only recommend the Quickfire TK. It's the only mechanical board in the list.
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What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.
Some of the comments on this thread are astonishing.
The numpad and arrow keys are some of the most heavily-used keys on my keyboard, as are "Delete", "Page Up", and "Page Down" (although the other half of the "6-pack" are rarely touched at all).
I can understand people who do not work with numbers not wanting a numpad, but how can anybody get by without arrow keys? Are you using a function to go into the middle of your character set to move up and down rows in a text document? If you need to navigate up 2 rows and back 10 characters to correct a spelling mistake, how do you do it?
Or do go to the enormous trouble of using a mouse to navigate, and that is why you need it so close by?
PS - get a Model F AT and add Alt keys!
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Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad, and I'm not a fan of detached Numpads
What are the thoughts from you folks who like TKL and other smaller layouts?
I like TKL because that's what I first learned to use. The first PCs available (Apple, Apple II, Commodore, etc.) had no numpad, but they did have the number row. My first PC was a Commodore Vic 20 and at school we had Apple II.
Since the numpad has become a standard feature I still see no need for it unless you are an accountant or book keeper crunching numbers constantly. As for engineering (software or otherwise) the number row is quiet sufficient and I am quite accurate with it. I actually think the number row is more efficient and ergonomic since you can use it without moving from the "Home Row."
Plus, it's nice to have more desk space and to have your mouse closer to you.
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I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.
What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.
Just get a Quickfire TK then...That sounds like exactly what you want.
As far as why a lot of people like TKL...Pretty much all of the reasons have been mentioned. I look at it as, unless I'm pounding away with numbers for extended periods of time, I'd much rather have that real estate on my desk. I'd much rather have the mouse closer to me. I've grown so used to TKL I just don't see myself ever going full size...to the point where, like others here have mentioned, if I need a numberpad that badly, I'll buy a dedicated one (not that I ever plan on needing one that badly).
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I can understand people who do not work with numbers not wanting a numpad, but how can anybody get by without arrow keys?
Other key commands/combos or the mouse.
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Some TKL keyboards have a numpad integrated within them through a function key. Can see those on some laptops too.
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Do they not teach typing in school anymore? If so, do they not teach you to use the number row or did most of you just skip that class (like I did)?
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I prefer the mouse closer and I use the top row all the time at work (developer) without any issues. I obsessively hung onto a numpad for ages when I first looked for a decent keyboard (my second was a fullsize Filco) but actually I find now it has made no difference to productivity at work to give one up and it makes the reach to mouse easier both there and at home. Plus if you want to get a cool additional keyset its cheaper not to have the numbers, making an ISO add on more affordable. Nothing not to like.
I don't really understand why people care dramatically one way or the other though..whatever suits you suits you.
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See: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50523.msg1106101#msg1106101
Also "Some"? I guess around here it's the majority who uses em... ;D
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For me it's all about comfort and arm position. I would much rather be able to have my arms like this | | on keyboard and mouse with a smaller keyboard, than like this | / with a full size.
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For me it's all about comfort and arm position. I would much rather be able to have my arms like this | | on keyboard and mouse with a smaller keyboard, than like this | / with a full size.
The only reason why I prefer TKL over standard size keyboards, can't get used to no function row on 60% though :-\
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For all the people worrying about desk space... Does no one else use a keyboard tray?
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For all the people worrying about desk space... Does no one else use a keyboard tray?
Those are much more limited in space than a desk top.
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For all the people worrying about desk space... Does no one else use a keyboard tray?
My experience is that they make things even more cramped.
I prefer everything on the desk being at the same comfortable height, and having the whole desk as a working space.
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I have a pretty massive desk and I still love it when I have my poker on it as opposed to my model m or filco. I can also put my mouse closer in while gaming, one of the many reasons I use the poker for gaming (also black switches, etc, but the size is still a huge reason to use it)
This is coming from me though, a person who loves mini itx computer and is also planning on getting the 40% keyboard when it is available.
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For all the people worrying about desk space... Does no one else use a keyboard tray?
I can't stand keyboard trays.
Btw for those with limited desk space who really can only use TKL, but who also miss having a dedicated numpad occasionally, why not get a stand-alone numpad? Have the best of both worlds :)
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I also hate keyboard trays. 99% of the time I encounter them the mouse is on the desk anyway since it couldn't fit on the tray. Having the keyboard and mouse at different levels also bugs the **** out of me too.
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tkl is definitely a benefit if you do not input numbers a lot. If you just do the occasional number in password or inputting numbers in text fields, and you either game or have limited desk space, then tkl is the way to go imo.
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For all the people worrying about desk space... Does no one else use a keyboard tray?
I really don't like the keyboard tray that I have and consequently don't use it. My vision is quite poor and without glasses, I need to be maybe a meter at most away from the screen. As you can see I do quite a lot of speed typing, and having the keyboard lower than the monitor is quite uncomfortable. Also, I tend to push it inwards slightly so that I can see the monitor better, and then it ends up knocking my (quite long) fingers against the bottom of the desk.
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the keyboard tray is WHY i can't go bigger than Tkl.
i have NEVER found a tray than can fit both a fullsize and a mouse confortably.
keeping the mouse on top is retarded. the amount of hand movement between mouse and board is clown-like.
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the amount of hand movement between mouse and board is clown-like.
I keep mice on both sides. Is that movement magician-like?
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Heh I switched from HHKB to Model M for a little (for various reasons).
I am finding that my mouse hand keeps hitting the right side of the keyboard, and I keep shifting the keyboard from left to right across the desk.
Definitely prefer TKL (or 60%) :)
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I use TKL and HHKB. I can touch type numbers in the top row. However, for a lot of number entry, there is no question that a tenkey is more efficient. So...I have a numberpad. I have the Realforce numberpad, but here's a nice Filco with browns for $45: http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-TenKeyPad-Tactile-Numberpad/dp/B000MGBPNI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390773579&sr=8-1&keywords=filco+numpad (http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-TenKeyPad-Tactile-Numberpad/dp/B000MGBPNI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390773579&sr=8-1&keywords=filco+numpad)
My numpad sits under my display. I simply pull it out when I need to do a lot of number entry. My accountant comes to my office once a week to do my accounting. Nobody does more number entry than an accountant, and this guy tenkeys so fast, you almost can't differentiate individual keystrokes. He liked my separate numpad so much that he ordered a Filco TKL and the above numpad and dumped his full sized Das board. That was six weeks ago. I asked him last week how he likes the new setup. He said he'll never go back to a full sized board with attached numpad.
Regarding compact layouts: I'm a programmer, and I've been using my HHKB about 75% of the time these days. Once I adjusted to using the secondary layer, it's actually faster than a standard keyboard layout simply because of reduced finger movement. F keys can be actuated without reaching. I run three displays, so easily moving windows between them is a must. I can do that on the HHKB with my right hand. That requires two hands on a standard layout. Keyboard shortcuts are faster too.
One of the best changes I made on my HHKB was making the left Win key a Fn key. Now I can use arrow keys, PgUp, PgDn, Home and End without leaving home row...and without taking my eyes off my display. Seriously, it's really fast to navigate.
Compact doesn't come without some cost however. I miss having a right Control key. I'd like to have a left Win key in addition to the Fn key. However, these are minor issues when compared to the benefits of a compact layout.
Another benefit is mouse use. I know this doesn't concern most users, but I mouse with both hands and have a mouse and mouse pad on each side of my keyboard. I'm right handed, but left mouse about 60% of the time. When I game, I use left mouse. Having a compact or TKL board allows me to keep my mice in close on each side.
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ever tried a minila? it can do every case you talked about with only minor tweaks and still has cursor keys for wīndows.
the amount of hand movement between mouse and board is clown-like.
I keep mice on both sides. Is that movement magician-like?
more like deliriously-overworked-sysadmin-like. but i've seriously considered doing this with a razer naga on my left hand to serve as a really small gamingpad with all the keys mapped to macros.
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My left mouse get the most consistent use when I am using the numpad and/or arrow keys.
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I also hate keyboard trays. 99% of the time I encounter them the mouse is on the desk anyway since it couldn't fit on the tray. Having the keyboard and mouse at different levels also bugs the **** out of me too.
Yeah, that is the most annoying thing. Like many people I play videogames. I play FPS like Counterstrike :GO, and since I play on low sensitivity, I need a big mousepad. A lot of people using keyboard trays have a tiny mousepad on which they do their gaming. That would be terrible to me. I would literally rather play on the floor without a desk than have my main input device be confined to such a small area.
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I guess I'm just a bit wierd then, I can't stand having the mouse on the same level as the keyboard. Being able to rest your entire arm on the table is just so comfortable.
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I guess I'm just a bit wierd then, I can't stand having the mouse on the same level as the keyboard. Being able to rest your entire arm on the table is just so comfortable.
I would suggest you to try some ergonomic chair with armrests, at least for me it made a huge difference.
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LOL... even though I am primarily a 60% user... I use a ****ing 150cmX75cm DINING TABLE for my PC desk. Plenty of elbow room, quite literally. Elbows on the table!!!
I like my PC off the floor, have a 27" display and need room for my speakers on the table too. I'm also a low sens gamer... though not 100% by choice but I use MX Revolution on 1440p so...
I almost wish my desk was even a bit bigger... it would be nice to fit my turntable and some other bits and pieces on there as well.
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omg I hate keyboard trays.. I have to have my 60%, Numberpad, Mouse. all same level and very comfortable.
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Kinesis has the biggest keyboard tray I've seen. They have a 30" wide and a 26" wide. I have the 30" and it can fit a full size keyboard, my trackball, and still has more room. You could easily do a pointing device on each side although it might be different for gamers who need a large mousepad.
Per the actual topic, I don't need a numpad except for a couple instances like IP addresses. I really like the story about the accountant going for the separate numpad. I don't think I'll do a full size again.
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Per the actual topic, I don't need a numpad except for a couple instances like IP addresses.
That's the kind of number entry that I find easier with the number row as opposed to the the number pad. Like Macsmasher said, you don't have to move your hands away from the home row. I guess lots of people just learned to use the numpad and never used the number row.
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Per the actual topic, I don't need a numpad except for a couple instances like IP addresses.
That's the kind of number entry that I find easier with the number row as opposed to the the number pad. Like Macsmasher said, you don't have to move your hands away from the home row. I guess lots of people just learned to use the numpad and never used the number row.
That's spot on. I've been teaching myself to use the number row lately. I can see the period being closer to the numbers on a numpad being easier for things like ip addresses and accounting work though, but I don't know if that's me making things up.
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My left mouse get the most consistent use when I am using the numpad and/or arrow keys.
Exactly. I was doing a lot of CAD back in the early 90s. We were working in metric, so numpad was the way to go. I had never seen anybody using a mouse on each side, but I added a mouse for my left hand. Took about a month to get used to since it's my off hand. But in CAD, I could mouse with left hand and tenkey in coordinates. And for spreadsheet entry, click a cell and tenkey the number. Made a huge difference in speed. Then I started FPS gaming about '94 and for whatever reason started out using my left hand for mouse.
I'm actually surprised there aren't more left handed ergonomic mice. DeathAdder is the only option (besides some goofy vertical contraption). I would think they could use the same electronics and switches in a left handed body. Couldn't be that expensive to produce.
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Per the actual topic, I don't need a numpad except for a couple instances like IP addresses.
That's the kind of number entry that I find easier with the number row as opposed to the the number pad. Like Macsmasher said, you don't have to move your hands away from the home row. I guess lots of people just learned to use the numpad and never used the number row.
That's spot on. I've been teaching myself to use the number row lately. I can see the period being closer to the numbers on a numpad being easier for things like ip addresses and accounting work though, but I don't know if that's me making things up.
I'm serious :) I've been doing it so long it's just second nature to hit the period with my ring finger just like I'm typing a sentence.
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There are 3 distinct crowds on GH....
Collectors... they'll buy anything, in fact, that's essentially what they're trying to do, BUY EVERYTHING...
N00bs... they'll read a spec sheet and compare features they have no use for, then they'll buy something, it makes them happy as long as they can keep talking about it. <-most topre fanbois fall here...
USERS... the keyboard is an extension of oneself.. These people have an Egdx.. they sacrifice all aesthetics to pursue the most "usable" keyboard.
Nice summerize, I feel being a mix of collector and user... Anyway, numpad is almost mandatory on an AZERTY keyboard as long as you use it for other things then gaming. Even for gaming I love to have a numpad, because these keys can do a nice shorcuts pad for right-hand in games where you can play w/o mouse (somme people play WoW w/o using mouse when they fight, and these are the most efficient in high rated PvP). That's also why I hate laptops, these small keyboards layout and flat keys make me mad :eek:
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I enjoy TKL because it gives me more space on my pullout keyboard trays to add my trackball while pulling in my mouse closer. I use a trackball and a standard optical mouse on all of my setups. Also, the number pad can be a pain sometimes when you accidentally forget that the keys don't register the same in certain applications.
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My left mouse get the most consistent use when I am using the numpad and/or arrow keys.
Exactly. I was doing a lot of CAD back in the early 90s. We were working in metric, so numpad was the way to go. I had never seen anybody using a mouse on each side, but I added a mouse for my left hand. Took about a month to get used to since it's my off hand. But in CAD, I could mouse with left hand and tenkey in coordinates. And for spreadsheet entry, click a cell and tenkey the number. Made a huge difference in speed. Then I started FPS gaming about '94 and for whatever reason started out using my left hand for mouse.
I'm actually surprised there aren't more left handed ergonomic mice. DeathAdder is the only option (besides some goofy vertical contraption). I would think they could use the same electronics and switches in a left handed body. Couldn't be that expensive to produce.
i use razer naga 2014 lefthanded.
the amount of work to make the mold is exactly the same.
but the market for left-handed users is TEENY-TINY; i would bet it is much smaller than the market for left-handed guitars. I've heard a number that left-handed sales was less than one percent of right-handed mice for a local chain in vancouver. I mean, how many people have actually used a left-handed mouse before? how much marketing do you see for them?
EDIT: before someone calls me out; a lefthanded mouse and an ambidextrous mouse is NEVER the same thing.
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LOL... even though I am primarily a 60% user... I use a ****ing 150cmX75cm DINING TABLE for my PC desk. Plenty of elbow room, quite literally. Elbows on the table!!!
I like my PC off the floor, have a 27" display and need room for my speakers on the table too. I'm also a low sens gamer... though not 100% by choice but I use MX Revolution on 1440p so...
I almost wish my desk was even a bit bigger... it would be nice to fit my turntable and some other bits and pieces on there as well.
LOL, I also use a dining table (Ikea with a heavy glass plate), and though my PC tower is on the floor (coolest air there), I feel I still need more place : Phone, 1 Dell 27" Monitor, 1 19" secondary monitor, Xonar sound card and all Hi-Fi audio are on the floor with router, NAS and hub. No more place to put a scanner... Need these expensive VESA orientable arms to free space on desk^^
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I had used full size keyboard for a long time, until I bought my first TKL keyboard. After using TKL, I found that the numpad is not that useful, and it also make the mouse become too far away from the keybaord. So I keep on using TKL
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I mean, how many people have actually used a left-handed mouse before?
I switched from right mouse to left a few of years ago, although I am strongly right-handed and have used mice since the 1980s. It took a month.
A couple of years ago I got the Wow Joy Pen mouse and fell in love, it is the best! (But I never game, and gamers think it is too slow.)
Unfortunately, it is only available in right hand configuration, so I use symmetrical mice for the left. I tried the Evoluent Left-Hand mouse which was the most horrible abomination that I have ever rested my hand on. It was as if they spent months of research to ensure that they got every single detail exactly WRONG!
Now I just wait and hope that Wow Joy will decide to make a left-hand version, and use my ancient Microsoft Optical Mouse 1.1 in the meantime.
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I like TKL because that's what I first learned to use. The first PCs available (Apple, Apple II, Commodore, etc.) had no numpad, but they did have the number row. My first PC was a Commodore Vic 20 and at school we had Apple II.
I was thinking the same thing. I had an Apple II+, then IIe for most of the 80's before getting my first PC around 1990. IMO, it's not that TKL keyboards deviate from the standard, but 101/104 keyboards do!
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Pretty much everything's been said, but here is how I feel about it:
- The fact that you're asking that question here means that probably before you know it you will have spent a fortune on different keyboards and, if you don't already, end up with a shelf full of any possible combination of sizes, switches, keycaps, etc :-)
- As my main daily typing board I use a Kinesis contoured with mx-browns. I have come to loathe the Kinesis but it helps me with my bad wrists. Immediately to the right is my Kensington SlimBlade trackball so my right hand movement from keyboard to trackball is minimal. To the left hand side I keep a mouse button to click with my left hand while I'm pointing with my right.
- I LOVE the aesthetics of full sized keyboards. They are simply put ... beautiful.
- A negative for the full length is that you may find yourself posturing to the left because the keys you type on most are on the left half of the keyboard. Alternatively you may offset the keyboard to the right, which will also (if right handed) place your mouse further to the right increasing right hand travel.
- A TKL is great if you need Function and arrow keys a lot. For same as above the pointing device could be closer to your right hand than with a full sized keyboard.
- For whole days spent entering numbers (doesn't really happen) I would probably use a separate numpad. I may be tempted to keep my TKL at the centre, a mouse to the right and a numpad to the left.
- If I were an accountant mostly spending days in a text terminal keying in numbers, I would probably prefer a full sized keyboard.
- Whilst travelling I am now using exclusively a poker 2 60%. My job is mostly about going through log files, c code, text debuggers and almost all navigation and editing is within vi. So most of my time is within what can be very comfortably achieved within the 60%
- Aren't there also the TK keyboards, such as the QFR, which give you the tkl width but a full numpad?
- Good luck in your quest
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- Aren't there also the TK keyboards, such as the QFR, which give you the tkl width but a full numpad?
I think you meant QuickFire TK but other than that spot on.
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TK keyboard has a reduced size with numpad but its layout is a fail IMO, G80-11800 is IMO the best solution to have your mouse closer to your left hand while keeping an almost standard layout.
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I would suggest you to try some ergonomic chair with armrests, at least for me it made a huge difference.
They had those at a lab I was in for a while. Still couldn't stand putting the mouse beside the keyboard, had to go behind the desk and rewire the stuff to put the mouse above the keyboard. On the otherhand, using the keyboard with those armrests was quite a joy.
Though for me, other than of course entering tons of numeric data using the numpad. FFXI has cemeted my constant use of the numpad, since with the numpad you didn't even need to use the mouse in that game.
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I would suggest you to try some ergonomic chair with armrests, at least for me it made a huge difference.
They had those at a lab I was in for a while. Still couldn't stand putting the mouse beside the keyboard, had to go behind the desk and rewire the stuff to put the mouse above the keyboard. On the otherhand, using the keyboard with those armrests was quite a joy.
Though for me, other than of course entering tons of numeric data using the numpad. FFXI has cemeted my constant use of the numpad, since with the numpad you didn't even need to use the mouse in that game.
Yea I was like you used to keyboard tray my whole life, now I just can't stand my keyboard being on a different level form my mouse. But hey whatever suits you the best right? ^-^