I've tried to refurbish the switches back to the 60g actuation force they originally had. From wear and use when I first started using the keyboard again, that force was more in the 40s.
white dampened switches where lighter than the cream counterparts
What's not clear is whether they're the same switch, and the slider colour was changed in 1994, or whether Alps introduced a second switch model with reduced force.
White and blue Alps feel quite different, but they're specified identically ; )
I've tried the Matias Quiet, Salmon Alps, and Dampened Cream Alps switches. I haven't tried the orange Alps. And I haven't heard of a dampened white Alps.
I really liked the Matias quiet switches and Salmon Alps. The Matias switches are supposedly replacements of the Cream Alps (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard_II#Cream_Alps). But I think that I like the Matias ones better than the Cream Alps in the AEK II I own. The Matias Quiets feel smoother and less scratchy versus the Cream Alps. Could be that my AEK II is still filthy though.
I'd like to try the orange Alps though and an AEK.
OK, this has had 22 views already, will anybody give up their opinions on the subject?Given that you have to read the thread to see what the question is, you realize that it wasn't just 22 people deliberately withholding information from you? ;)
I've tried the Matias Quiet, Salmon Alps, and Dampened Cream Alps switches. I haven't tried the orange Alps. And I haven't heard of a dampened white Alps.
I really liked the Matias quiet switches and Salmon Alps. The Matias switches are supposedly replacements of the Cream Alps (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard_II#Cream_Alps). But I think that I like the Matias ones better than the Cream Alps in the AEK II I own. The Matias Quiets feel smoother and less scratchy versus the Cream Alps. Could be that my AEK II is still filthy though.
I'd like to try the orange Alps though and an AEK.
I think you may have tried Orange Alps and did not know it. I brought an AEK to the April 2013 Chicago Meetup, and I brought an Orange Alps Apple IIGS board to Keycon. I think tipo33 also had some Orange Alps among his half-dozen AEK's.
For Orange Alps, just imagine a slightly lighter Salmon Alps. Orange Alps struck me as the lightest of Alps.
Given that you have to read the thread to see what the question is, you realize that it wasn't just 22 people deliberately withholding information from you?
1 is cream
and 2 are either orange or 1 salmon and 1 orange?
For Orange Alps, just imagine a slightly lighter Salmon Alps. Orange Alps struck me as the lightest of Alps.
Well, that is part of my dilemma, apparently you can't tell by date or serial number.
Do you have any references for that? As in, people who have actually cited switch/date combinations? (Not all keyboards actually have any date information anywhere.)
of course in regards to a 3501 (AEK II) if you can see the label you can decipher as to cream, whites or salmon.
all the m0115's i have ever seen are oranges and not salmon (or pinks), but they do exist
all the m0115's i have ever seen are oranges and not salmon (or pinks), but they do exist
The last M0115 I had was pink (aka salmon, the farmed variety, not the wild ones, which are quite red) but I sold it on ebay a few weeks ago. Wait, I do still have the label:
I presume you mean "clack"? Salmon Alps don't click.
Tactile Alps switches are pretty loud!
As terrpn mentioned, the 'S' in a square on the label allegedly indicates an AEK II with damped switches.I have seen them on M3501s made in the USA or Mexico (http://kbd.rzw.jp/column/apple_extended_keyboard_ii_m3501/attachment/aa_m3501_mexico_white_02/).
As terrpn mentioned, the 'S' in a square on the label allegedly indicates an AEK II with damped switches.I have seen them on M3501s made in the USA or Mexico (http://kbd.rzw.jp/column/apple_extended_keyboard_ii_m3501/attachment/aa_m3501_mexico_white_02/).
I have yet to see a M3501 made in Ireland that has the symbol - all made there had dampened switches.
I've tried the Matias Quiet, Salmon Alps, and Dampened Cream Alps switches. I haven't tried the orange Alps. And I haven't heard of a dampened white Alps.
I really liked the Matias quiet switches and Salmon Alps. The Matias switches are supposedly replacements of the Cream Alps (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard_II#Cream_Alps). But I think that I like the Matias ones better than the Cream Alps in the AEK II I own. The Matias Quiets feel smoother and less scratchy versus the Cream Alps. Could be that my AEK II is still filthy though.
I'd like to try the orange Alps though and an AEK.
I think you may have tried Orange Alps and did not know it. I brought an AEK to the April 2013 Chicago Meetup, and I brought an Orange Alps Apple IIGS board to Keycon. I think tipo33 also had some Orange Alps among his half-dozen AEK's.
For Orange Alps, just imagine a slightly lighter Salmon Alps. Orange Alps struck me as the lightest of Alps.
Crap. I think you're right. Do you still have those boards so I can try them out again?
No, I got rid of them. Orange Alps have such light tactility that they almost feel linear at times.What are you comparing to? Are you sure the keyboard wasn’t worn out? Orange alps are more tactile than Cherry MX brown/blue/clear, as one example. They’re less tactile than blue/white alps, SMK "monterey blue" switches, or orange omron switches, among common switches I've tried.
I received an AEK yesterday that I purchased on ebay. The labels are below.
It has orange switches and seems a bit lighter than the pink/salmons.
The seller apologized for its condition, but with a little elbow grease it cleaned up nicely.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=54068.0;attach=53227;image)
But I see it's a Compaq rubber dome and I certainly understand slamming one of those through a desk. (I've done something similar.)
The "nickel test" shows an activation force for these switches of 14 nickels. [...] the stock clear is 14 [...] The clears seem to have slightly more of a tactile bump than the alps do, maybe enough that I could tell the difference in a blind test, but it would be a close thing.If you try them back to back, you’ll notice that MX clear switches feel *substantially* different from tactile Alps switches. The tactility of Alps switches is sharper (i.e. there's more dramatic drop in force post-actuation) because the force depends on a metal leaf spring in addition to the helical compression spring. With the MX clear switch, you can feel a little plastic bump in an otherwise linear feeling force curve. With the Alps switch, there’s an initial increase in force followed by a noticeable click (on the tactile switches, it’s not audible, so maybe “click” is the wrong word) where the force drops off steeply, and then slowly increases as the switch keeps going down [IMO the Alps switches would ideally have more increase in force near the bottom of travel, but that’s neither here nor there.] Also, the actuation point in Alps switches is noticeably higher up than on MX switches, and there’s much less feeling of plastic-on-plastic friction from the slider (though on old switches that have gotten some dust inside Alps switches can get pretty scratchy too).
Green and yellow overlapped for two years and were sometimes found in the same keyboard together.I think maybe this was because the switches with LEDs have cut-outs in the bottom of the switch housing for the LED leads, which the linear switches without LEDs don’t have? So if Alps was switching to the yellow switches, it’s possible that they had extras of the green switches w/ LEDs in them or didn’t start producing yellow switches w/ LEDs included right away?
If you try them back to back, you’ll notice that MX clear switches feel *substantially* different from tactile Alps switches.
I did test them back to back, or more precisely, top to bottom. I put my AEK on my desk and sat the tester plate with the clears right on top of it. When moving the keys at typing speed, I can't really tell the difference.Huh. They feel fairly different to me. But I don’t have any of the pink/salmon Alps switches, only orange, cream/ivory, white, blue, brown.
the ALPS feels like there's very little slack before the pressure starts building to the activation point. On the clear there's some slack before it starts ramping up.Yes, that’s right, on the Alps switch, the actuation point is nearer to the top.
So the bump winds up feeling sharper on the clear than on the ALPS. The ALPS feels a bit more linear.Hm. The cherry switch, to me, feels like it's basically linear with a bump in the middle (like driving a car over a speed bump). With the Alps switch, it starts taking a high amount of force, then the amount of force drops noticeably at actuation (like driving a car off a curb). For me, this combination (especially the higher actuation point) helps a lot to reduce the total amount of work that my fingers need to put into the keystroke, because there’s more effort up front to get the cherry switch to actuate, and then the spring is pretty stiff right after actuation.
If I slow down and examine the full stroke in detail, the differences are obvious. But who types like that?Aha, okay. Fair enough. I suspect this has a lot to do with typing style too. The lighter the typing (i.e. using just enough force/work to actuate the switch), the more noticeable the difference is going to be. Also, I bet it’s more obvious on a full keyboard than a switch tester.
Green and yellow overlapped for two years and were sometimes found in the same keyboard together.I think maybe this was because the switches with LEDs have cut-outs in the bottom of the switch housing for the LED leads, which the linear switches without LEDs don’t have? So if Alps was switching to the yellow switches, it’s possible that they had extras of the green switches w/ LEDs in them or didn’t start producing yellow switches w/ LEDs included right away?
I dunno, that’s a completely speculative guess.
How finished is that gauge? Obviously don't make the pilgrimage until it's ready!Well it’s mostly fine for measuring the downstroke (though I think there might be just a little bit of slip in it, manifesting as a ramp up at the very start of a generated force curve). But for comparative purposes it’s great for the downstrokes.