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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:42:29

Title: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:42:29
Hello Geekhack community,

Let me preface by explaining that I am a complete noob when it comes to anything beyond a normal, functioning keyboard.  Until recently (today) I didn't realize that a 'keyboard enthusiast' existed.  It does make sense to me, as I have been playing FPS games online since the original Quake.  I still remember being very young and someone telling me I was pretty good for a keyboard turner.  Confused, I asked, and discovered the console command for mouse look...  Albeit very odd at first - since that day I've always wondered how people play FPS games on a xbox or ps controller.  Sure, you can be good at it, but imagine if you had a keyboard and mouse...

Anyway - Back to my plight.  Evidently there is a demand for clicky mechanical keyboards.  After reading some threads on this site I'm beginning to see why.  I have an enormous collection of oldschool keyboards that I have absolutely zero clue about.  I've joined this site to explore your knowledge and hopefully gain some insight into what I have.  Is it rare?  Is it junk?  Is it common?  Should I invest time into restoring it? 

My plan was to research via google about the part #s and read about them, but I was very surprised that even google didn't have results for some of the part #s.  I'm hoping that with the near 30,000 members here I can get some answers. 

OK - Post 1 - the beginning:

(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0192_zpsb2555794.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0193_zps2292224b.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0194_zps8ea4f088.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0195_zps459a581b.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0196_zps6b7f0a2f.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0197_zps72f17e04.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0198_zps564810fd.jpg)

Question 1:

What is this?  I can't find anything on google for any of the #s that are on the back.

(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0187_zps1a6370dc.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0188_zpse2024ec5.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0189_zpsae170f4c.jpg)

Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:45:00
Words... can't... even...
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:46:41
Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia :P.

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures :D.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:49:22
Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia :P.

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures :D.

And they will probably try to throw their wallets/credit cards at you.  Very nice collection man.  Would love to see these working on modern machines.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: morpheus on Tue, 25 February 2014, 21:59:22
HOLY CRAP

Gimme one of those.... ;-)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:00:23
Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack!  :)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:04:05
Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack!  :)

I think DavidB is going to be everyone's favourite friend here from now on  8) .  Welcome to Geekhack Central.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:04:46
Wow that is awesome, welcome to geekhack!  :)

I think DavidB is going to be everyone's favourite friend here from now on  8) .  Welcome to Geekhack Central.
RIP DavidB's inbox  ;)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: spiceBar on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:11:26
HOLY CRAP

Gimme one of those.... ;-)

Yes, "Holy crap" is what comes to mind.

Seriously... No I can't... HOLY CRAP is what comes over and over again looking at your pictures!  :eek:
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Rena on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:23:49
christ, those are a lot of keyboards. I'd imagine if you played your cards right and you had the right boards you could make an immense profit. or mailing some to me is always an option too (just kidding).

also, the board you pictured in the last three look like something you'd use with a commodore 64 or one of those kinds of things, but I have no idea at all.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:27:05
LOL.

Crazy response after 30 minutes - I'll keep snapping pics and updating you all as I go through all of them. 

I am definitely going to need help with some of this, and I'm very happy that this community exists!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:39:07
Oh my dear god, you have all that just sitting around? hahaha that's so sick. hook up an Model F AT! :cool:
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:42:40
oh god.....

somebody beat 127001's collection
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:49:26
Yeah I'm kind of wondering, where are all of these? Is this actually at your house?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 22:56:52
They are in my warehouse.  If I had a few hundred keyboards on shelves at my house I would at least know what I had :)  and I probably wouldn't have a wife anymore... 

Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:02:43
Wow. That's amazing. Really.. Just wow.

If you happen to find a board in really, really terrible condition with one of these square black IBM badges.. I'll buy the badge!

(http://i.imgur.com/4FAcJ6d.png)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:03:30
They are in my warehouse.  If I had a few hundred keyboards on shelves at my house I would at least know what I had :)  and I probably wouldn't have a wife anymore...

LOL I would have to agree with that one.  There are some guys here working on converters/or have converters done so you can get those working on modern PCs without completely hacking them up.  If I am up to date on these they can be installed inline with the cord, or in the case between the board and the cable.  I have had a rash of wrong info lately though.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:04:18
Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia :P.

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures :D.

All beam springs are odd layouts.

That is most definitely a beam spring KB for an IBM 3276 terminal (the 3275/3277 KBs are much larger on the top: here's a picture (http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_beam_spring/rojon/2.jpg)). Made in Canada in the late 1970's. Now usable on USB with Xwhatsit's controller.

I think its 3278: doublechecking now. It's the 3270 layout and size.

Edit: 3276, similar to dedalus's data entry beamspring.
http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/ibm-3276-data-entry-keyboard-t1113.html

First image upper right. square label IBM model M 1390120. Front left appears to be an IBM 122-key model F (check for the black bottom pan) 611034* or 6110668 Those are worth money. There is one upside down on the "a10D" shelf that you can clearly see. Two more on the "a8F' shelf

I also see (on the 42H0468 shelf) a "model C" keyboard. This uses "model F" technology, but is not desireable (horrid layout, etc.) still they are nice keyboards.  Two more on the left in the picture preceding "question 1".

Lots and lots of 1390120 keyboards. These aren't as sought after as the F 122 key, but are very nice and currently in demand.

Lots of 122-key model M keyboards. These are some what common and less in demand, but still very nice.

The cheapest KBs are probably the terminal Ms. the + ont eh tenkey (numberpad) is split and they have a modular connector you can see one as the second from the left KB ont eh a10c shelf.

Lots of POS kbs: rubberdomes, not very nice to type on, no-one wants them. You have some examples on the a9b shelf.

Yellow kb above the 25f6350 tag appears to be an NMB terminal board: not too nice. The one next to it seems familliar: I will ahve to see better pictures :P

---

My recommendation:
sort them by generation. The normal size M's by label (square is the oldest, then beige oval then blue oval) Sort out the F122's and other model F's. Throw away the cheap POS stuff.

If you ahve any questions about a specific model, please ask here.

---
edit: you live very close to another GH'er who knows a lot about IBM model F keyboards. Perhaps invite him over and chat! :p
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:07:33
I'd love a F-122 ^-^
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:08:56
Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

;)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:11:38
Hm, maybe an odd layout Beam Spring board?

Really I just want to marvel at this IBM collection. I now know that the IBM land is apparently in Georgia :P.

Welcome to GeekHack. I'm sure all the IBMHeads will love your pictures :D.

All beam springs are odd layouts.

That is most definitely a beam spring KB for an IBM 3278 terminal (the 3275/3277 KBs are much larger on the top: here's a picture (http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_beam_spring/rojon/2.jpg)). Made in Canada in the late 1970's. Now usable on USB with Xwhatsit's controller.

I think its 3278: doublechecking now. It's the 3270 layout and size.

First image upper right. square label IBM model M 1390120. Front left appears to be an IBM 122-key model F (check for the black bottom pan) 611034* or 6110668 Those are worth money. There is one upside down on the "a10D" shelf that you can clearly see. Two more on the "a8F' shelf

I also see (on the 42H0468 shelf) a "model C" keyboard. This uses "model F" technology, but is not desireable (horrid layout, etc.) still they are nice keyboards.  Two more on the left in the picture preceding "question 1".

Lots and lots of 1390120 keyboards. These aren't as sought after as the F 122 key, but are very nice and currently in demand.

Lots of 122-key model M keyboards. These are some what common and less in demand, but still very nice.

The cheapest KBs are probably the terminal Ms. the + ont eh tenkey (numberpad) is split and they have a modular connector you can see one as the second from the left KB ont eh a10c shelf.

Lots of POS kbs: rubberdomes, not very nice to type on, no-one wants them. You have some examples on the a9b shelf.

Yellow kb above the 25f6350 tag appears to be an NMB terminal board: not too nice. The one next to it seems familliar: I will ahve to see better pictures :P

---

My recommendation:
sort them by generation. The normal size M's by label (square is the oldest, then beige oval then blue oval) Sort out the F122's and other model F's. Throw away the cheap POS stuff.

If you ahve any questions about a specific model, please ask here.

---
edit: you live very close to another GH'er who knows a lot about IBM model F keyboards. Perhaps invite him over and chat! :p

wow thanks for the info!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:15:28
I can probably identify most (or all) of those IBM boards you have as well as give some info and history, features, desirability, etc if you want.

Just ask away!


---
I have also alerted some of the IBM guys to this topic. So some of them might weigh in later.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:17:54
I can probably identify most (or all) of those IBM boards you have as well as give some info and history, features, desirability, etc if you want.

Just ask away!

I can vouch for this DV is a walking knowledge bomb.  If you find some really weird stuff Daniel Beardsmore is has some INSANE knowledge on some really obscure switches and such.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:23:44
Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

;)

I have no intention of holding onto most of these.  I also have no intention of breaking any of this site's rules.

As of right now, besides going to bed, I am trying to gather info on what I have, and maybe share some pictures of stuff you've never seen before...  who knows?  maybe I will :)

as far as SSK - I don't know.  I'll try to go through some stuff tomorrow and update.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:28:03
I, for one, am interested in a terminal emulator KB keycaps. You can see them on the KB in this link (http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/ibm_1397000.html).

Most of your KBs looks to be older than that though. If you do see one, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 25 February 2014, 23:58:30
Mother of god..... :eek:

May I ask how did you end up with that collection?

Still in shock atm. :eek:
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Lastpilot on Wed, 26 February 2014, 00:12:13
Another vouch for dorkvader. He knows his stuff.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 26 February 2014, 01:28:11
Prepare your inbox...
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 26 February 2014, 02:03:30
Can confirm I'm going to throw my wallet at you. I don't even want an SSK. Almost anything with buckling springs is fine by me.

This may finally be my chance to own one...
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: semyorka on Wed, 26 February 2014, 02:12:18
Holeee ****.  MASSIVE collection!

The big thing I see is in photo #2, the shelf with the 6110345 keyboards: Those are 122-key Model F keyboards (referred to as "F122" around here), identifiable by the black metal backplate.  I see more in photo #3 and #4.  Those are probably the most desirable thing I see (they rarely sell for <$100 on eBay in good condition).  Be careful, the plastic can be brittle on those keyboards!

122-key Model M keyboards (with the plastic back) are unfortunately not in as high demand, but you should still be able to sell them for a reasonable price.  I see that most of the ones you have are ones with the pushbutton-released legs; they generally sell for a few $ more than the ones without the pushbutton legs.

As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

If a 101-key Model M does NOT have the three status LEDs, look at the model#.  1390120 keyboards will work with a modern PC without a converter, and are reasonably sought after - as they are some of the oldest Ms out there.  Other model#s are terminal keyboards and in very low demand, although you'll still manage to sell them - they're good parts donor keyboards (another giveaway: terminal Model Ms don't have a vertical "+" key at the far right, it's split into two keys).

Note that if you have any darker grey "Industrial" Model Ms, they are highly sought after. Model M Space Saver Keyboards ("SSK") are also highly sought after - they don't have the number pad to the right.

The non-IBM keyboards are probably worthless, especially if they're not "clicky".

The keyboard pictured at the end is an extremely desirable IBM beam spring keyboard, and I'm sure your inbox is already inundated by GH'ers asking to buy it.

Finally, if you have any 1387033 model keyboards (A 104-key version of the 122-key Model F without a number pad), please PM me!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: tbc on Wed, 26 February 2014, 02:35:11
oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Kouni on Wed, 26 February 2014, 03:45:43
It's like treasure island for geeks. Thanks for sharing the journey, I'll be watching with interest.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 26 February 2014, 09:16:25
oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

I think that the Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Enhanced_Keyboard#Noteworthy_Part_Numbers) and Wikipedia entries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M#Features_by_part_number) are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 26 February 2014, 09:26:43
Best first post thread in GH history.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: berserkfan on Wed, 26 February 2014, 09:28:50
LOL.

Crazy response after 30 minutes - I'll keep snapping pics and updating you all as I go through all of them. 

I am definitely going to need help with some of this, and I'm very happy that this community exists!

Looks like supply is finally going to go through the roof. And prices come down to earth! Hopefully!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: JPG on Wed, 26 February 2014, 09:40:10
OMG, nice collection you have there!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: semyorka on Wed, 26 February 2014, 12:19:53
oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

I think that the Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Enhanced_Keyboard#Noteworthy_Part_Numbers) and Wikipedia entries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M#Features_by_part_number) are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.

tbc, I think you severely underestimate the number of different keyboard models that IBM manufactured, and overestimate the variety shown in the photos.  And I agree with CPTBadAss that any new information should be added to existing sources, rather than fragmenting the data further.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Reckthor on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:03:51
Well............*Sigh* Unzips
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:09:57
Pulled a couple that I thought were interesting. 

First, one with odd characters on the keys:

(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0203_zpsa0ceab4a.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0205_zps16a9802d.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0207_zps2dd3d194.jpg)

next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0200_zps5ae02888.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0202_zpsca40df4e.jpg)
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0201_zps4d8f7aab.jpg)


Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:20:16
Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0201_zps4d8f7aab.jpg)


Is that an owners manual conveniently hidden underneath that board?

I am super curious as to what we might learn from reading it...
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:24:52
Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0201_zps4d8f7aab.jpg)


Is that an owners manual conveniently hidden underneath that board?

I am super curious as to what we might learn from reading it...

Do not use with Soares convertor  :))
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:26:36
next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0200_zps5ae02888.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0202_zpsca40df4e.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0201_zps4d8f7aab.jpg)


One of the resident IBMheads in the IRC channel, daemonraccoon, told me that this keyboard is a Model F keyboard that goes with a Model C terminal. I guess that the switch would be for choosing what protocol you want to use. For example, some keyboards can switch between an XT and AT protocol. I suspect this is the same thing. I'm not a huge fan of the layout. But the caps in the first board are called APL caps. Those look pretty cool :D.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 26 February 2014, 18:54:33
Pulled a couple that I thought were interesting. 

First, one with odd characters on the keys:

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0203_zpsa0ceab4a.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0205_zps16a9802d.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0207_zps2dd3d194.jpg)


next:  odd looking keyboard with a switch on it - anyone got info?

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0200_zps5ae02888.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0202_zpsca40df4e.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t557/dbo35/DSC_0201_zps4d8f7aab.jpg)




#1 is a model F with APL keycaps: worth serious cash to some.
#2 is a "model C" keyboard. The manual is inside it. I have a manual as well. Yours is the "model C4". I have a model C1 keyboard.

Both use model F switch technology.

Sadly I was already aware of the 1385167 model number, and they aren't generally available or I'd have one already.

Until I get a scanner, these are the best pictures of the manual you'll get:
http://imgur.com/a/Qe41v
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:24:45
I, for one, am interested in a terminal emulator KB keycaps. You can see them on the KB in this link (http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/ibm_1397000.html).

Most of your KBs looks to be older than that though. If you do see one, I'd be interested.

I do have a 1397000 according to the notes that I jotted down.  Would that have what you are looking for?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: tbc on Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:30:20
oh dear gawd.

i'm not sure if this has veen done before, but if the OP and IBM buffs are interested, this might be a really good time to make an IBM/retro board wiki.

i'm only guessing that's not everything and that the full collection should fill up quite a large amount of the list of all models ever.

by wiki, i'm really just referring to the quantity of information (a wiki's worth of ibm stuff vs a page of ibm stuff).

definitely would be best to merge it with current keyboard wikis.
I think that the Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Enhanced_Keyboard#Noteworthy_Part_Numbers) and Wikipedia entries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M#Features_by_part_number) are a great start and a good place to add information. Probably the DT wiki more so.

tbc, I think you severely underestimate the number of different keyboard models that IBM manufactured, and overestimate the variety shown in the photos.  And I agree with CPTBadAss that any new information should be added to existing sources, rather than fragmenting the data further.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:34:54
#1 is a model F with APL keycaps: worth serious cash to some.
#2 is a "model C" keyboard. The manual is inside it. I have a manual as well. Yours is the "model C4". I have a model C1 keyboard.

Both use model F switch technology.

Sadly I was already aware of the 1385167 model number, and they aren't generally available or I'd have one already.

Until I get a scanner, these are the best pictures of the manual you'll get:
http://imgur.com/a/Qe41v

Thanks for the info. 

Quick questions:  How should I go about cleaning these boards up?  Is there anything that can be easily messed up?  What should I watch out for besides brittle plastic?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:54:46
How should I go about cleaning these boards up?  Is there anything that can be easily messed up?  What should I watch out for besides brittle plastic?

I highly suggest you watch phosphorglow's video (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54190.0). I think it will answer a lot of your questions.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: thesentinel on Thu, 27 February 2014, 00:06:03
I can already feel the money in my wallet loosening
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 27 February 2014, 00:10:46
Phosphorglow has good advice, but remember the beam spring is a completely different beast (look at my disassembly photos here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52241.0)). Other than cleaning the thing, you have to be VERY careful when removing the keycaps: they are somewhat brittle and replacements are not available.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: mrmillsy on Thu, 27 February 2014, 07:00:19
Loving reading this.  Keep the updates coming David!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 27 February 2014, 08:07:59
I'm interested in learning more about those Model F's and seeing if we got some new part numbers.  Wow.  What a collection.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 27 February 2014, 08:23:40
Also, that geekhacker with Model F knowledge near you.  Cough***fohat.digs***cough.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 27 February 2014, 14:50:41
How should I go about cleaning these boards up?  Is there anything that can be easily messed up?  What should I watch out for besides brittle plastic?

I highly suggest you watch phosphorglow's video (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54190.0). I think it will answer a lot of your questions.

I'd suggest not cleaning them beyond simply wiping them down.  Any IBM keyboard fancier would rather do some cleaning than have something damaged by someone trying to clean eleventy-hundred keyboards all at once.

Just get the dirt and dust off and then let whomever gets an individual keyboard do an otaku cleaning on it himself.

I'd be happy to demonstrate on one of those small, weird terminal keyboards if you'd like ;)

And yes, best first thread ever.  Welcome to GeekHack!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 27 February 2014, 15:16:27
I just saw this thread for the first time.

The title put me off. I will try to contact David and see if we can work on some of this in person.

Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Thu, 27 February 2014, 17:00:47
I'd like to visit this too, I should be even closer than fohat.digs is.

But yeah, I'm not sure a full thorough cleaning should be done before selling them. Merely wiping them off would be more than alot of sellers seem to do. Then again, if you did all the bolt modding stuff and also made soarer converters for the ones that need them that might get more money, I just don't know if its worth it.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 27 February 2014, 17:21:02
Wow, I just came in here and... Wow.

I'd definitely be interested in an F-122 or maybe 2 if there are extras, once you get everything sorted out.

For those who are interested in APL key caps, Unicomp has them listed on their site again. Two tone red and black, side printed and all, for $35 a set. They look really nice. If I end up with one of these F122s, I may just deck it out in APL caps for the ANSI conversion.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:11:55
I'm not interested in an F122, but I will be more than happy to take an F AT off your hands... keep us updated on selling plans.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: E TwentyNine on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:19:26
So, how about some backstory?   How did you come about to have this massive collection?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:42:52
I'm up for a AT and a F-122 since I never got those....
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:35:14
Who's to say that he's going to sell any of them?

I'd like an SSK, but shipping would kill that idea.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:39:23
Who's to say that he's going to sell any of them?

I'd like an SSK, but shipping would kill that idea.

Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

;)

I have no intention of holding onto most of these.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:42:56
Who's to say that he's going to sell any of them?

I'd like an SSK, but shipping would kill that idea.

Welcome to Geekhack!

The question everyone's minds: are you likely to sell any of these?

Probably followed by: Any SSK in there?

;)

I have no intention of holding onto most of these.

 :D
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:45:28
 ;)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Parak on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:34:42
That's an impressive stash. I see a few unsavers (like an F122 but without numpad), too - those are much sought after.

If I didn't already have all the boards pictured (except the model C, grumble), I'd be clawing at my screen right now.


...


Oh who am I kidding - I'm clawing at the screen anyway!
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:41:17
1387033 - this is rare right? 
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Parak on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:43:31
Yeah, there's a few versions of the unsaver - that's one (in fact the only 'known' one) of the easily adaptable ones at the moment, so it's rather desirable.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: DavidB on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:53:11
So, how about some backstory?   How did you come about to have this massive collection?

~30 years reselling used/recert computer parts / printer parts / whole machines, and a big warehouse. 
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: JPG on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:54:20
1387033 - this is rare right?

You have one? Or many?  :eek:
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 27 February 2014, 21:08:44
1387033 - this is rare right?

Can we get a pic??

I know its not rare but I picked up a M today Part No. 52G9700 FRU no 92F0332 build date 21SEP93.  Bad board chow but decent shape for $5.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 27 February 2014, 21:15:14
Yeah, there's a few versions of the unsaver - that's one (in fact the only 'known' one) of the easily adaptable ones at the moment, so it's rather desirable.
I havent seen one, but the 1387032 should exist and be compatible. I suspect 138703* is the naming convention, though I've only ever seen the *3 and *2 offered online.

Looks like you have at least three. I know a lot of GH'ers who would want one. The reason they aren't more sought after is because they are so uncommon, many people don't even know about them.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: JWK on Fri, 28 February 2014, 07:15:12
as far as SSK - I don't know.  I'll try to go through some stuff tomorrow and update.

Perhaps I can help you locate the SSKs -- there are probably a few on that shelf you have labelled 1391472.  :-)
 
The Deskthority site has an excellent wiki on the development of various models of the IBM keyboards.  You'll find that interesting.  But as you find new, uncatalogued  or un-pictured models, it would be nice if you would add to the knowledge base -- or lend the item to someone who has the time to document it.   Every once in a while, someone catches a coelacanth, and it's nice to take some pictures before eating it.

Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 28 February 2014, 07:23:06

Every once in a while, someone catches a coelacanth, and it's nice to take some pictures before eating it.


The coelacanth tastes awful, doesn't it?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: E TwentyNine on Fri, 28 February 2014, 07:47:52
1387033 - this is rare right?

That one might gather a little more interest than the rest.

Also, unless it's a trick of the light, thought I saw a few industrials in there too.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 28 February 2014, 10:40:14
Is this 1389732 another version of the Unsaver, similar to the 1387033?  I am a bit confused on the part numbers we are throwing around.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: E TwentyNine on Fri, 28 February 2014, 11:47:59
As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

Important addendum here.  I see a shelf of 71G4646, which are rubber dome M's (as are all 71Gxxxx models afaik).

Worth less than standard buckling spring M's, but they're decent RD keyboards I suppose.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 28 February 2014, 11:53:46
As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

Important addendum here.  I see a shelf of 71G4646, which are rubber dome M's (as are all 71Gxxxx models afaik).

Worth less than standard buckling spring M's, but they're decent RD keyboards I suppose.

I recently discovered that you can convert that to a buckling spring keyboard, just need to find a full set of buckling spring keycaps and get yoself some springs.  Everything else is the same.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 28 February 2014, 12:00:01
As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

Important addendum here.  I see a shelf of 71G4646, which are rubber dome M's (as are all 71Gxxxx models afaik).

Worth less than standard buckling spring M's, but they're decent RD keyboards I suppose.

I recently discovered that you can convert that to a buckling spring keyboard, just need to find a full set of buckling spring keycaps and get yoself some springs.  Everything else is the same.

I would love to see a write up on this mod.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 28 February 2014, 12:34:16
As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

Important addendum here.  I see a shelf of 71G4646, which are rubber dome M's (as are all 71Gxxxx models afaik).

Worth less than standard buckling spring M's, but they're decent RD keyboards I suppose.

I recently discovered that you can convert that to a buckling spring keyboard, just need to find a full set of buckling spring keycaps and get yoself some springs.  Everything else is the same.

I would love to see a write up on this mod.

We're diverting the thread a bit, it's just like any other bolt mod for a Model M.  I have not completed it yet, but I'm assuming it will work.

Actually, now that I'm writing about it, I might just bolt mod the rubber dome Model M and see how that feels.  Could be the most solid rubber dome on the face of the planet.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 28 February 2014, 13:05:22

We're diverting the thread a bit, it's just like any other bolt mod for a Model M.  I have not completed it yet, but I'm assuming it will work.


As I recall, the keys are different because there is plastic in the way where springs are supposed to be. The first one of those I bought, I figured that it was worth the $10 for the keys alone, but I don't think anything really matches except the case and maybe the barrel plate.

Please take photos, I never did, and now I have trouble remembering what all the parts looked like inside.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 28 February 2014, 13:45:52

We're diverting the thread a bit, it's just like any other bolt mod for a Model M.  I have not completed it yet, but I'm assuming it will work.


As I recall, the keys are different because there is plastic in the way where springs are supposed to be. The first one of those I bought, I figured that it was worth the $10 for the keys alone, but I don't think anything really matches except the case and maybe the barrel plate.

Please take photos, I never did, and now I have trouble remembering what all the parts looked like inside.

This is my last post on this rubber dome Model M in this thread (don't want to divert the thread anymore), but my initial assessment leads to believe that the everything is the same on the rubber dome Model M and buckling spring Model M except the following:

1.  keycaps.  Rubber dome keycaps do not have have open space in the key stem to house the buckling springs.
2.  A rubber dome sheet rather than rubber between the barrel frame and metal backplate.
3.  Lack of springs and pivot plates.

The rubber dome sheet has holes in the location of the plastic rivets, so it should be compatible for a bolt mod.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: dorkvader on Fri, 28 February 2014, 21:47:39
As a rough guide, all 101-key Model Ms with the three status LEDs up in the top right are basically the same.  Older ones with the square silver badge at the upper right are the most desirable, ones with the rounded badge with black text at the upper left are next, and ones with the rounded badge with blue text are the least desirable.  That said, the condition of the keyboard often has a larger effect on price than the badge.

Important addendum here.  I see a shelf of 71G4646, which are rubber dome M's (as are all 71Gxxxx models afaik).

Worth less than standard buckling spring M's, but they're decent RD keyboards I suppose.

I recently discovered that you can convert that to a buckling spring keyboard, just need to find a full set of buckling spring keycaps and get yoself some springs.  Everything else is the same.

I have one and plan to keep it domes and bolt mod it. If you want to convert it to buckling spring you will also need a mat (or "blanket" in unicomp parlance).

Is this 1389732 another version of the Unsaver, similar to the 1387033?  I am a bit confused on the part numbers we are throwing around.


Yes, it's the APL-keycap version.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: ZeDestructor on Wed, 12 March 2014, 10:29:34
Nice collection...

I'm looking for an unsaver (the famous 1387033 or 1389732.. I don't particularly care about the caps) and an industrial gray SSK (any generation).

PM me so we can arrange something.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 12 March 2014, 10:37:45
I think we're all waiting to hear what's going to happen. I was actually going to post here and ask for an update, since I went ahead and ordered APL key caps from Unicomp to go on a future F-122 or unsaver.
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: qnaal on Wed, 12 March 2014, 12:49:57
DavidB needs an avatar for easier thread skimming.

More
(http://i.imgur.com/M1CYajA.jpg)
something like this perhaps
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: histevenhere on Wed, 12 March 2014, 22:28:12
Any updates? :D
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:03:14
Any updates? :D
Nah, topicstarter haven't been online for three days. Either he's busy, or he'd been mugged for his stash :)
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:11:51
Any updates? :D

You mean apart from Chapter 2 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55478.0)?
Title: Re: The Journey begins: post 1
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 03 June 2014, 03:57:41
So what's the go with the beamsprings here? Did they eventually get sold off?