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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:51:37

Title: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:51:37
Any recommendations to get into the universe?

books first, or movie first or tvshow first (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/silence-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862519)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43
You mean you haven't seen any Star Wars yet?

Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

See the old movies first (Star Wars Ep IV - A New Hope, Episode V The Empire Strikes Back, Episode VI Return of the Jedi). Look for copies of Harmy's Despecialized Editions - these are the best editions out there.
Lucasfilm has made changes in the movies back in '97, '04 (DVD release) and in the BluRay release ('09 ?) - but not to the better. Any copies of the original movies do supposedly not exist in any good image quality, only low-resolution video copies on VHS and laserdisc. The despecialized editions are utilizing the high resolution from the blurays but have the bad effects and images reversed back more to its original form.

Then see the "prequel" movies (Episodes I through III), or ignore them completely. Be aware that they are pretty bad, and made more for kids than the other movies, especially Episode I.
The "Clone Wars" 3D-animated TV-series takes place between Episodes II and III. It is pretty good also as animated series goes, but not every episode. There are a few seasons, so it is a lot to watch.

An alternative viewing order is 4-5- 2-3 -6. It is called the "Machete Order" because it cuts away Episode I, widely regarded as the most annoying of the prequels. It presents episodes 2 and 3 as a look back in time, but episode I is not actually important in the larger story, so it can be skipped without missing much.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: riotonthebay on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:20:40
An alternative viewing order is 4-5- 2-3 -6. It is called the "Machete Order" because it cuts away Episode I, widely regarded as the most annoying of the prequels,. It presents episodes 2 and 3 as a look back in time, but episode I is not actually important in the larger story, so it can be skipped without missing much.

Machete Order is brilliant. I wish I had never seen the movies so that I could consume them for the first time in this order. tp4, if you've not seen them, definitely watch them in Machete Order.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:25:33
Thx for the suggests,  movie brays incoming..  i will peruse under machete order

what about the 100s of games.. are they important...(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/5c745924.gif)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:29:10
See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Caravan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

Most of the games are crap and can easily be ignored... though Battlefront, X-Wing and Tie-Fighter have decent gameplay at least. The original 1983 arcade game, one of the first FPS games, is actually pretty good if you like retro games. I still find the laser bright outline graphic style amazing looking.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:33:40
See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Carivan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

I've casually heard this many times..  that star wars fandom is masochistic in nature, because it's been a constant influx of carrot and betrayal.

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/confused-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862495)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:36:49
Another vote for Machete Order. If someone has never seen the films, it would definitely be the best way to view them.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:44:56
I think you should avoid the Ewok movies and the Holiday Special completely... The Ewok movies were made to cash in, and are really for small kids. The Holiday Special is so cheesy 1970's that it might will scar you for life.  :eek:

There have been lots of games for PC and consoles. Quality varies a lot. Some games were really good ... for their time, but feel a bit dated today. It can be hard to get older PC games to work on newer systems.
I really liked Jedi Knight (from '97 I think..) - it is a FPS with lightsabers, but it has characters that are not anywhere else. It has sequels also.
The Knights of the Old Republic games are pretty well liked RPGs, but set 1000 years in the past. I haven't played The Force Unleashed or Force Commander, but they seem to be pretty well liked.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:48:28
I've casually heard this many times..  that star wars fandom is masochistic in nature, because it's been a constant influx of carrot and betrayal.
Indeed. I use to say that you are not a true Star Wars fan if you not also hate what has happened to Star Wars. We hate because we care...
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: JoeC on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:37:05
No matter what version you see, Han shot first.
Watch the 'original trilogy' before you see any of the others, or do the 'machete'
I've only read a few of the books.  Play the videogames, as many as you can get emulators and roms for.
Though, I know you're more of a Trekkie, TP4.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:39:46
Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads.  Who cares if they won't be canon.  George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more.  The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:45:25
No matter what version you see, Han shot first.
Watch the 'original trilogy' before you see any of the others, or do the 'machete'
I've only read a few of the books.  Play the videogames, as many as you can get emulators and roms for.
Though, I know you're more of a Trekkie, TP4.


I'm a fan of all sci-fi with the exception of things like "Lost"... (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/good-job-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862505)



Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads.  Who cares if they won't be canon.  George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more.  The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.

does it disappoint you that you've given money to the guy? hahaha...(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/evil-smile-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862503)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:47:32
I believe he new Star Wars movies from Disney are disavowing everything other than Episodes 1-6 and the Clone Wars TV show.  So from a canon point of view nothing else matters.  Some of it is fun to read, watch, and play though, as others have mentioned.

If you want to see the original trilogy (episodes 4-6) in high def as they were shown originally in theaters (which I highly recommend), check out the "despecialized" editions.  They look fantastic and have none of the lousy CG and tweaks that George has inflicted on us for the last 15 years.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56
I believe he new Star Wars movies from Disney are disavowing everything other than Episodes 1-6 and the Clone Wars TV show.  So from a canon point of view nothing else matters.  Some of it is fun to read, watch, and play though, as others have mentioned.

If you want to see the original trilogy (episodes 4-6) in high def as they were shown originally in theaters (which I highly recommend), check out the "despecialized" editions.  They look fantastic and have none of the lousy CG and tweaks that George has inflicted on us for the last 15 years.

so the despecialized are  fan edits yea?
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:51:16
so the despecialized are  fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary.  The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating.  I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:54:11
Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:58:50
so the despecialized are  fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary.  The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating.  I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.

Here is the slideshow (https://plus.google.com/photos/109609428403596349302/albums/5615986319094414129) I was remembering, and a Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY) video as well.  You'll want to see the movies before watching the videos, probably.

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.

I agree that fans get too worked up about it.  Someone coming to the movies fresh will not care nearly as much.  But the changes are really, really terrible -- technically, tonally, and story-wise.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:11:11
so the despecialized are  fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary.  The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating.  I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.

Here is the slideshow (https://plus.google.com/photos/109609428403596349302/albums/5615986319094414129) I was remembering, and a Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY) video as well.  You'll want to see the movies before watching the videos, probably.

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.

I agree that fans get too worked up about it.  Someone coming to the movies fresh will not care nearly as much.  But the changes are really, really terrible -- technically, tonally, and story-wise.

should I start with despecialized? or watch the vanilla bray first..
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:23:56
should I start with despecialized? or watch the vanilla bray first..

I would definitely start with the despecialized versions, yeah, if you can get them.  Watch episodes 4-6 (the original trilogy), then 1-3 (the prequel trilogy).  Then see the commercial blu-ray release of episodes 4-6 (with all the extra crap in them) if only to see what everyone is complaining about.  I'd actually be really interested to hear a reaction from someone seeing it all for the first time as an adult (i.e., without the nostalgia and/or superfan factors involved).  I honestly don't know how much I'd enjoy these movies if I hadn't been obsessed with them as a child.

The Clone Wars cartoon show is actually quite good as well, and covers material between Episodes 2 and 3.  I'd watch the movies first though before seeing the show.

edit: And once you've seen it all, sit back and enjoy the Plinkett review (http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/) of Episode I (there are others as well).  I won't spoil things by describing it further, but it's fantastic.

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

I meant to respond to this above.  Personally I like Phantom Menace more than the other two prequels, by a wide margin.  It feels the most Star Wars-ey to me, and has the least egregious overextension from George in terms of CG sets, characters, and set pieces.  It also has the two most interesting characters in the prequels, IMO: Qui-Gon Ginn and Darth Maul.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28
See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Caravan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

Most of the games are crap and can easily be ignored... though Battlefront, X-Wing and Tie-Fighter have decent gameplay at least. The original 1983 arcade game, one of the first FPS games, is actually pretty good if you like retro games. I still find the laser bright outline graphic style amazing looking.

Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:33:19
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope.  Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing. :thumb:

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights. It would be a huge olive branch to the fan communities and a show of good faith that they care about putting the prequels behind them and giving us something worthwhile. They are definitely trying to create that impression so I think a rerelease would be worthwhile in faith and good will even if they don't make a ton of money on it.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:18
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:24
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope.  Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing. :thumb:

Ahh my bad, Ivan said it wish such authority that he had a way of watching them or something. But I'll have to check out those 'despecialised' versions... Did they also remake episodes 1, 2 and 3 into watchable movies ?
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:44:17
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope.  Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing. :thumb:

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights. It would be a huge olive branch to the fan communities and a show of good faith that they care about putting the prequels behind them and giving us something worthwhile. They are definitely trying to create that impression so I think a rerelease would be worthwhile in faith and good will even if they don't make a ton of money on it.

Yeah I think it would be smart. I don't know anyone who's invested in any version of SW post VHS era because Lucas kept adding terrible **** to them. To be able to watch them as the original cut in HD would be awesome
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:48:20
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

The 2006 release isn't available for purchase anymore unless I'm mistaken...

Ahh my bad, Ivan said it wish such authority that he had a way of watching them or something. But I'll have to check out those 'despecialised' versions... Did they also remake episodes 1, 2 and 3 into watchable movies ?

Heh no, but there is a re-cut called The Phantom Edit which attempts to improve Episode I.  I haven't seen it but I believe the main difference is the removal of Jar-Jar. :D
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:56:23
Some of the graphic novels are good, if you like that sort of thing. The Rogue Squadron books my Michael A Stackpole are good as well.

As for games, Battlefront 1 and 2 are good. The clone trooper squad FPS was alright as well. EA will no doubt reveal more about their version of Battlefront at E3 this year as well.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:57:08

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

The 2006 release isn't available for purchase anymore unless I'm mistaken...


They are available on eBay, which I where I purchased my unused copies from. Wasn't too long ago they could be bought retail, as it was the last DVD version released before the Blu-Ray came out from memory.

The HD version of the Special Edition is also available from a German HDTV broadcast, which is one of the sources used for Harmy's DSE. The German broadcast had the most faithful color and quality of that version, compared to the other HDTV broadcasts IIRC.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:05:41
Just thinking out loud, didn't the original movies come out on laser disc? Wouldn't those be the highest quality versions of the original movies out there? Or is ripping a laser disc just not feasible?
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:11:09
That's what the second disc of the 2006 DVD version are - a reproduction of the last laser disc versions, hence the middling quality.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:14:39
Ah ok fair enough.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 01 June 2014, 05:14:28
so the despecialized are  fan edits yea?
I would call them "fan restorations".

Mind you there are fan edits also. The most famous is "AdyWan's" Episode IV.
AdyWan has been working on the sequel, a fan edit of Episode V for the last five years ... Shooting extras in costume to fill out battle scenes, shooting newly built physical models and model sets etc.  It is going to be interesting to watch, but I prefer the originals.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 01 June 2014, 05:28:52
The [original versions] are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.
They are copies from the same master tapes that were used to create Laserdiscs of the three movies in the early '90s. Letterbox widescreen - not anamorphic widescreen like the DVD edition. There is also some added motion blur because of a primitive image enhancement filter used back then.
Better quality than bootleg DVD-transfers from Laserdisc, but not as good quality as the despecialized versions.

In the despecialized editions, the bulk of each movie is practically the same in the original and BluRay edition but needed colour correction. Only the parts where the movie differs between editions has been restored from earlier sources. Not only were letterbox laserdiscs used, but also images ripped from pan-and-scan laserdiscs as well as scanned movie stills carefully composited into higher-resolution images.
Harmy isn't the only editor to do such a restoration, and even he has done several revisions, but his work is considered to be the best.

The German HDTV broadcast actually preceded the BluRay release at least a few months, maybe a couple of years even (I don't quite remember), so it was a big thing among fan editors/restorators for a while. The HDTV broadcast did also not include the additional changes introduced in the BluRay release ... (Yes, Lucasfilm had tinkered with the movies even more.)

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights.
Fox still owns the distribution rights for quite a few years before they are transferred to Disney.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: paicrai on Sun, 01 June 2014, 07:59:06
wow this ****'s interesting
[attachimg=1]
credit to GoldenTot for accepting me on Snapchat and sending this
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Fire Brand on Sun, 01 June 2014, 08:44:00
Republic commandos is a pretty good game in the star wars world :x
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 11:33:17
Fox still owns the distribution rights for quite a few years before they are transferred to Disney.

Bummer :-/

Maybe by the time a Disney-produced trilogy is complete we'll be able to get a big 9-film release with a proper, restored non-special edition of the original trilogy.

edit: though tbh I'm gonna be sad that before too long Star Wars won't have the distinctive 20th Century Fox logo and fanfare attached.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:02:42
I watched the first half of Episode IV on both Despecialized and Vanilla Bluray....

I must admit, the despecialized looks pretty good..  especially considering the Despecialized is only 720p and only 17GB  vs the Bray 1080p @ 38GB


Great movie thus far... effects hold up well...


The despecialized is Sepia/Amber toned vs the new Cool-blue on the bluray.. 



The Despecialized, I suppose preserves the time period's artistic language for (outer space)

The New Bluray, is a more modern and space is noticeably Colder..


I honestly don't think either editions has a true leg up...  at least not so far...


The only Technical advantage difference I suppose is that texture resolution is much higher on the Bluray...   but I had to zoom in to see the difference, so that's not really saying much...


I will finish watching and full -report
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:10:57
Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:13:50
Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.

Did you check TPB?(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:25:55
Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.

Did you check TPB?
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


I had searched for "harmy" and came up with very little. But a search for "despecialized" returns some better results, you're right. :)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: eth0s on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:42:57
Well, if you're new to Star Wars, then you are about to start a love/hate relationship with George Lucas.  And you need to know one word:  Ewoks.  Prepare for the Ewoks.  Well, maybe there is no way to prepare for Ewoks.  They are so horrible, you can't really imagine how bad.  George Lucas lost his mind when he put Ewoks in the third movie.  Although, as bad as they are, Ewoks are not the nadir of the Star Wars movies.  That honor goes to Jar-Jar Binks.   Who is probably the most racist character in film.  Except for maybe Al Jolson in The Jazz Singer, which is an actual black-face minstrel show.  So just gird yourself for Ewoks in the third movie, and Jar-Jar in the fourth.  After that it gets a bit better, except Hayden Christensen is horrible as Darth Vader.  There is no way Hayden Christensen could turn into David Prowse, or have the voice of James Earl Jones.

Anyway, the best movies are the first and second (which Lucas stupidly calls Episodes IV and V).  And maybe the second one is the best of all.  It should also be noted that the second one (Empire Strikes Back) had the least input from George Lucas, so that tells you something.

You should also look up the changes Lucas made to the first movie.  The worst of which is when he changed when Han Solo shoots Greedo.  In the original version, Han shoots first.  But Lucas changed it to Greedo shooting first, and Han retaliating.  Which completely changes the Han Solo character from swashbuckling space-pirate/ smuggler, to being a super good-guy, right from start of the movie.  Which then completely negates his final transformation into hero at the end of the movie when he swoops in to rescue Luke from Darth Vader.  When you manage to tell a story where dramatic circumstances cause an existential change in a character, that is excellent story-telling, worthy of the greatest Greek tragedies.  Since Lucas didn't even realize what he had done, Lucas is a moron.  He is one of the best examples of an artist who doesn't understand his own work.  Also, his changes show him to be an incompetent steward of the Star Wars Canon, and ownership should be taken away from him by eminent domain or in the interest of the public good.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:57:44
I didn't even notice who shot first..

Um..

Han solo's transformation..   I  think perhaps this is only a surprise if this movie is the very first movie you've seen  where a cold character becomes a warmer hero...


For me..   I knew immediately that Han was the badass guy who will do something heroic later..

That shot didn't prompt or ruin anything..

but yea.. For the OLD die-hard fans, who came into the-star-wars franchise from the very beginning,  at a place in history where cinema was NOT a daily event,  I suppppppose  it could be an unwarranted modification to them...


If you consider that the redone things were intended for a more modern audience... then those small changes seem far less critical..

I didn't notice..  i watched the first 2 halves back to back.. on despecialized first, then bray.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: paicrai on Sun, 01 June 2014, 13:12:42
you guys really make me want to get into star wars again
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 14:07:46
you guys really make me want to get into star wars again

I just finished watching the despecialized,  and now into the bluray..

In the space station.. there's a great deal of black crush....  I'm don't think the crushed details are essential to the movie... but  i could see how comic-book-guy would consider that to be something dire (missing)..


Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: paicrai on Sun, 01 June 2014, 14:40:20
you guys really make me want to get into star wars again

I just finished watching the despecialized,  and now into the bluray..

In the space station.. there's a great deal of black crush....  I'm don't think the crushed details are essential to the movie... but  i could see how comic-book-guy would consider that to be something dire (missing)..
Crush the blacks

Video editors a-

Blow the whites



video editing jokes
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 16:57:26
Well, if you're new to Star Wars, then you are about to start a love/hate relationship with George Lucas.  And you need to know one word:  Ewoks.  Prepare for the Ewoks.

You should also look up the changes Lucas made to the first movie.  The worst of which is when he changed when Han Solo shoots Greedo.

Spoken like a true SW fanatic, haha. I wouldn't say I hated the Ewoks, it's a combination of a few different things. In fact I'm quite fond of the night time village sequences and think they're among the best scenes in the film.

To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful (http://a.pomf.se/rntcii.webm) - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

Perhaps the good thing about IV and V is they played to their strengths really well. The space, desert and ice environments are perfect settings, and the films - especially V - maintained a consistency in the characters, sets and models better I felt.

But hey, what's a SW fan without some personal idea of what the films should be like :D
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 01 June 2014, 17:17:30
I'd say just watch the six films and walk away with your own judgments. Personally I like the first remake of the originals (the ones with the dewbacks) because I feel like that added enough small things without making it weird. If you really want the original, unchanged an in the best quality you would probably want the Laserdisc Star Wars Trilogy: The Definitive Collection

See here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:00:34
To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful (http://a.pomf.se/rntcii.webm) - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

ROTJ is my sentimental favorite since it was the one I loved best as a kid.  As an adult I can see that it's weak as a film, but the set pieces are just so damn good!  I agree with the general consensus that Empire is the best of the 6 films, but I think that the final assault on the Death Star in ROTJ is the best, most exciting and fun space battle ever filmed.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:09:16
Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads.  Who cares if they won't be canon.  George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more.  The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.

Official word is that no book is canon, particularly now that episode 7 (can you say cashgrab?) has been announced and is being written.

Vong were an interesting enemy at the start, but they dragged on for far too long, IMO. Thrawn is a masterpiece and is the only part of the expanded universe I truly regret being removed from canon.

Never heard of Machete order, but it sounds like a good way to go. Episode I would have been much better if there had been more lightsaber and less Jar-Jar, but you don't really miss anything by missing it.

For the record, my original order was I-II-IV-V-VI-(some books)-III-(more books). Maybe that dates me a little, but oh well.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:12:02
All the "Tales From The ...." books are amazing. They were a cornerstone of my preteen years, I'd recommend them for a fan of any age.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 01 June 2014, 21:30:29
To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful (http://a.pomf.se/rntcii.webm) - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

ROTJ is my sentimental favorite since it was the one I loved best as a kid.  As an adult I can see that it's weak as a film, but the set pieces are just so damn good!  I agree with the general consensus that Empire is the best of the 6 films, but I think that the final assault on the Death Star in ROTJ is the best, most exciting and fun space battle ever filmed.

I always liked V best, but that's 'cause it features the Good Empire kicking the Evil Rebellion's butts and other such general awesome. It also had much better lightsaber fighting than VI. IV had good fighting as well, but it's more fencing than believable lightsaber fighting.

Also, you know you're on GH when you automatically type lightsaver both times and have to fix it twice.

The games I played varied. I really enjoyed KoToR and Rouge squadron, but the lego starwars game was terrible (and very buggy)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: D01 on Sun, 01 June 2014, 22:33:03
I dislike any version of the original trilogy except the original theatrical version.  I've seen the originals so many times the changes are really noticeable, especially where they dubbed in new dialog.  And there is no Han shot first, he's the only one that got a shot off.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 23:08:21
I dislike any version of the original trilogy except the original theatrical version.  I've seen the originals so many times the changes are really noticeable, especially where they dubbed in new dialog.  And there is no Han shot first, he's the only one that got a shot off.


I really really wonder how many people would pick up on that shot if it hadn't been noticed by comic book guy..

It's so inconsequential.. Han's early demeanor couldn't have possibly been more clear that he's the badass cowboy out for the money..

This little change in firing order does very little to change the perception of that character and his metamorphosis post arc...


I am half convinced that you kiddies are just bandwagonin' on comic-book-guy's h8...

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bled2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862492)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 00:21:43
Broke machete order...

I went through IV - V.. .decided to go into I II III  instead of skipping I..

I really don't see why people's h8n' on this movie either..  it's very different from IV-V and I'd assume VI, but i haven't seen VI..


But really.. these are kids movies...  in fact I feel while phantom-menace is very different, it seems like it'd be much easier for kids to get into due to pacing...

the Original trilogy relative to today's film fashion are MUCH slower and dragged out, there's a huge amount of inconsequential dialogue in there but Not nearly enough action to balance it out...

Have ya'll seen the new Lego Movie... It's like taking hits of Speed for what felt like hours and hours...

Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 02 June 2014, 01:11:10
I really don't see why people's h8n' on this movie either..

One word. Gungans.

I really don't think it's a big issue either way. Ep. II and III go well together, and Ep. IV, V and VI go well together. Ep. I wasn't *bad* per se, it was just unnecessary from a plot standpoint.

Only real info it gives that's truly necessary is Anakin's late induction into the Jedi Order, which could have easily been worked into a later movie. Some people complain about the acting in Ep. I, but there haven't ever been stellar actors in Star Wars anyway. I can only recall a couple of big names (Harrison Ford comes to mind...)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 02 June 2014, 05:48:32
Another vote for Despecialised in Machete order. We don't need no Jarjar in our Star Wars universe, thank you very much.

As for games, I enjoyed Knights of the Old republic, both the original and sequel. I actually quite like the MMORPG( Star Wars: The Old Republic ) and have an active subscription since I felt it's a spiritual successor to KotOR and play it mostly like a single player game. The story arcs for each class are rather good.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 02 June 2014, 12:17:18
Another vote for Despecialised in Machete order. We don't need no Jarjar in our Star Wars universe, thank you very much.

I hadn't heard of machete order before this thread, but it makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 13:59:22
Another vote for Despecialised in Machete order. We don't need no Jarjar in our Star Wars universe, thank you very much.

I hadn't heard of machete order before this thread, but it makes a lot of sense.

ok.. so.... i really don't h8 jar jar @ all.. he may take away the seriousness a bit.. but...

I think perhaps the OG fans were taking star wars too seriously to begin with...

Which i'm not sure why because there's really not enough detail in the original trilogy to decidedly pin the series towards any CERTAIN attitude/ outcome...

Vs something like Startrek, where there's a very established language...  Star Wars isn't like that...
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 16:40:55
............... Episode 2

Natalie Portman and Hayden christensen...

I think these two actors were just a bit too stale, and made various segments of the movie extremely difficult to dive into..
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 June 2014, 16:46:04
............... Episode 2

Natalie Portman and Hayden christensen...

I think these two actors were just a bit too stale, and made various segments of the movie extremely difficult to dive into..

There is no chemistry. Christensen is hard enough to believe as a whiny Darth Vader, but that he is deeply in love with Portman? Nope.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 02 June 2014, 17:05:10
............... Episode 2

Natalie Portman and Hayden christensen...

I think these two actors were just a bit too stale, and made various segments of the movie extremely difficult to dive into..

There is no chemistry. Christensen is hard enough to believe as a whiny Darth Vader, but that he is deeply in love with Portman? Nope.

My physics prof this past semester loved to hate on Christensen. According to him, the guy only has one facial expression, no matter what he's doing, acting or not.

The Christensen/Portman scenes in Ep. II are the only star wars scenes I have ever willingly skipped.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 17:22:19
............... Episode 2

Natalie Portman and Hayden christensen...

I think these two actors were just a bit too stale, and made various segments of the movie extremely difficult to dive into..

There is no chemistry. Christensen is hard enough to believe as a whiny Darth Vader, but that he is deeply in love with Portman? Nope.

My physics prof this past semester loved to hate on Christensen. According to him, the guy only has one facial expression, no matter what he's doing, acting or not.

The Christensen/Portman scenes in Ep. II are the only star wars scenes I have ever willingly skipped.

haha.. yea. he's a cardboard cut out in this film for sure...

when he said..  not just the men, the women, the children, they're animals, and I killed them like animals..

I mean...   when you confess about KILLING 50+ more/less innocent (though backwards) people...   you'd think there'd be some more emotions...

and Portman had TOTALLY the wrong reaction...  yea sure, no prob, it's ok to kill people, you're angry, that's alright,  oh poor you, killed a bunch of weak level monsters with your amazing jedi skillz... please make babies with me...  blah blah.. blah blah blah.... bleh bleh..  wwaarrrgh..


Yea.. that scene was pretty awful...
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 02 June 2014, 17:25:40
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 17:27:49

well that wasn't his fault, just badly written script there..

hahaha

but the part when he confesses to killing a innocent women and children, there was a chance for him to really deliver..

and he crapped all over it.

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/crying2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862497)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 02 June 2014, 17:58:07
Yeah, the "slaughtered like animals" sequence and follow-up conversation was the one redeeming moment of actual drama in all of Episode II.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Mon, 02 June 2014, 18:38:32
I mean...   when you confess about KILLING 50+ more/less innocent (though backwards) people...   you'd think there'd be some more emotions...

gotta stop ya right there.

He's a Jedi (or at least has been trained as such, up to this point).

"there is no emotion, there is peace."

He is trained to NOT show or act on emotion (though the massacre was indeed emotionally motivated!)

He's in a transitional phase during that scene. He has caved to the temptation of the dark side, and committed emotionally motivated violence (though arguably justifiable, or at least understandable; those people slaughtered his family... most people would want revenge... but he happened to be force-sensitive AND Jedi Trained, so he had the means to do so). He's not "evil" yet... but he's opened the door, stepped through, had a look around, and stayed a while. But then he felt bad (really bad!) about it... though he's still conflicted, because he doesn't feel TOTALLY bad about it. He's like "i feel terrible... mostly... but i also kinda feel they deserved it... but i think this means i've failed as a Jedi!" (although technically, it could be argued that he never officially ascended from Padawan to Jedi status, and the massacre was a large part of the reason why... which was motivated by fear and anger, which are things all Jedi are supposed to overcome)

Idk, i think it makes more sense if you've seen the OT first (because then you'd already know...
More
he eventually redeems himself at the end of ROTJ, in his final moments... and all because Luke is such a BAMF.
)
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 22:00:21
Just finished II and III..

sigh.. I think maybe Phantom Menace was better, because it just got worse and worse

I think they really failed in telling Vader's backstory due to poor acting...


Hayden didn't make me BELIEVE.... (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/oh-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862514)


I just don't feel bad for him.. and he didn't seem in that much pain, except for when he was burning and all his limbs had fell off..

But because it was his damn idiocy to JUMP blindly...   you can't even sympathize.


I will be watching VI next ...
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 June 2014, 22:50:41
Don't feel too bad, I mean, you were just watching backstory with those three anyway, right? Despite what George Lucas thinks, Star Wars is about the badass Jedi Luke Skywalker and his rise as the last of the Jedi order, not about some guy named Anakin.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 02 June 2014, 23:05:01
Don't feel too bad, I mean, you were just watching backstory with those three anyway, right? Despite what George Lucas thinks, Star Wars is about the badass Jedi Luke Skywalker and his rise as the last of the Jedi order, not about some guy named Anakin.

I think the large fandom must've been the avid imagination of the audience in seeing their own star-wars reality...  rather than the story presented...

If I look at SW objectively.. there is VERY little there...  similar to harry potter...


vs  say  LOTR,  or Game of Thrones...
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 June 2014, 23:10:27
I think you should avoid the Ewok movies and the Holiday Special completely... The Ewok movies were made to cash in, and are really for small kids. The Holiday Special is so cheesy 1970's that it might will scar you for life.  :eek:

This.

An alternative viewing order is 4-5- 2-3 -6. It is called the "Machete Order" because it cuts away Episode I, widely regarded as the most annoying of the prequels. It presents episodes 2 and 3 as a look back in time, but episode I is not actually important in the larger story, so it can be skipped without missing much.

And this.

See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.

And finally, this.  This is the main reason I still own a VHS player and a big reason I have a laserdisc player.

I know this has all been said (obviously, I quoted it), but I'm just seconding all the opinions.
Title: Re: Let's say... I want to Star wars..
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 June 2014, 13:12:13
I'm actually quite disappointed now that I've finally took the time to Thoroughly go through the Canon material..

This is like when I read 3/4 of book 1 of Harry Potter, and thought, WTF do all these kids like about this whine-y brat....(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hehe-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507)