How long did you try Topre for? Only a few minutes is really not long enough to give you a proper feel for Topre. Topre 45g is similar weight to MX red, although the feel is quite different. If you try to persevere with Topre for a week or so, you might find it difficult to switch back to MX. Or you might not ;)
Speaking about the Model F, price is a barrier. Finding one in good condition is less likely than with an M from what I've seen, and I would have to deal with the non-standard layout and (possibly) finding a XT adapter (I already have a good DIN-to-PS/2, so that's possibly a non-issue).
I had a few questions about these choices and was hoping for a bit of guidance from those more experienced than myself. First off, regarding buckling spring boards, I could save about $20 or so going with a used model M (1391401 of course) if I got lucky, but in the end it's still a used part and I have little guarantee of how used.If you hunt around on eBay for a week or two, I’m guessing you can get a Model M for about $30 shipped. Most of the ones I’ve seen were in working order, even the ones that were really dirty. (Though sometimes there are broken plastic rivets, as someone mentioned.)
Is the 1391401 far enough above a new Unicomp that it is still the better buy, or is the difference in overall quality and longevity so small that going new will work out to be a better choice in the long term?I don’t think there’s such a tremendous difference, personally. But they are still using the same molds as 15-20 years ago for the Lexmark produced keyboards, so there has been some degradation.
After that, I was looking at ALPS switches, and after some research I believe the Matias, with its updated design and a quiet option was the best choice here. The difference is that it's also around $50 more expensive than the Unicomp and over 2x the price of a 1391401, so I'm only interested if you guys think its switches are good enough to justify the price.I really like the switches. You can also find old complicated white Alps boards (very similar to clicky Matias) for pretty cheap. Even as low as $20–25 shipped if you hunt around. But even very good condition ones for $40 pretty easily.
Are the Matias switches lighter than the BS switches? does the higher actuation point help with fast, accurate typing or does it take some getting used to?Yes, they’re a bit lighter than Model M switches. I prefer the high actuation point, all else equal. Some people don’t like it. YMMV.
Now here's the kicker--I am in love with the featherweight, linear Cherry MX Red switch. I know from research that none of the above choices are anything like the Cherry Red, being relatively heavy and very tactile (which I don't mind, I've used BS before and really enjoyed it) so are there better options out there for lovers of light, linear switches?Green complicated Alps is very nice (I find it much smoother than MX red, and just enough extra firmness to be much more accurate to type on), but hard to find and either pricey or beat up. Linear space invader switches are very nice [very smooth, very solid feeling], though they have somewhat shorter travel than MX switches, can be hard to find, and often come in keyboards with wacky layouts.
If you hunt around on eBay for a week or two, I’m guessing you can get a Model M for about $30 shipped.I don't think I've seen any that cheap in a while. I would expect to pay at least $45, or do some serious and dedicated searching
I don't think I've seen any that cheap in a while. I would expect to pay at least $45, or do some serious and dedicated searchingHere’s one that went for $30.28 (shipped) a couple weeks ago, http://www.ebay.com/itm/271391983361 (not the greatest condition though, and with an RJ11 connector), or a more typical one in good shape for $37 shipped, http://www.ebay.com/itm/371060356659
Are the Matias switches lighter than the BS switches? does the higher actuation point help with fast, accurate typing or does it take some getting used to? I like the modern features like the multimedia keys, but those are no deal-breaker either way. Am I missing any key features in my comparisons?
If you like linear switches and want to try something new, I highly suggest complicated linear green Alps.If you like linear switches and want to try something new, I highly suggest honeywell hall effect.
I'd also toss in a recommendation for the Apple Extended Keyboard M0115(not the Extended II), which uses Orange or Salmon alps.Interestingly enough, the orange switches in the AEK (M0115) and the cream switches in the AEK II have extremely similar if not identical springs and tactile leaves inside. The only differences are the switchplates and the little dampeners in the AEK II’s dampened switches, both of which have relatively minimal effect on feel. The keyboards seem psychologically very different to type on, but this is almost entirely due to the sound, I think.
I'd also toss in a recommendation for the Apple Extended Keyboard M0115(not the Extended II), which uses Orange or Salmon alps.Interestingly enough, the orange switches in the AEK (M0115) and the cream switches in the AEK II have extremely similar if not identical springs and tactile leaves inside. The only differences are the switchplates and the little dampeners in the AEK II’s dampened switches, both of which have relatively minimal effect on feel. The keyboards seem psychologically very different to type on, but this is almost entirely due to the sound, I think.
Also, the AEK II has nicer (thicker) keycaps, and a slightly sturdier case.
Personally I agree with you though: I like orange Alps switches much better, due to the undamped “clack” sound.
Also note: you get a really nice clicky switch if you put a Matias click leaf into an orange Alps switch.
I can tell a difference in feel, no question. I have two of both boards, and in my experience the AEK II isn't as smooth. It feels a tad gritty, in my opinion. Not to mention it has a slightly higher actuation force.Often grittiness in these keyboards is just a matter of dust getting into the switches over the years; I’ve tried orange Alps switches which were gritty and others which were very smooth for example. But I could also believe that there’s some slight difference in the molds for the sliders or top switch housings. The design/shape of the parts is largely similar, but there might have been worse tooling. Dunno.
I was interested about the Unicomp model m keyboard, but I've seen some reviews address that some of the plastic parts inside the keyboard (especially under the switchs) are very easy to become broken. IBM Model M can last for 20+ years. I am not sure how durable if you would compare umicomp keyboard to the original model M.
I can tell a difference in feel, no question. I have two of both boards, and in my experience the AEK II isn't as smooth. It feels a tad gritty, in my opinion. Not to mention it has a slightly higher actuation force.Often grittiness in these keyboards is just a matter of dust getting into the switches over the years; I’ve tried orange Alps switches which were gritty and others which were very smooth for example. But I could also believe that there’s some slight difference in the molds for the sliders or top switch housings. The design/shape of the parts is largely similar, but there might have been worse tooling. Dunno.
Or maybe there’s a noticeable difference between the switchplates after all. I should try to measure them more explicitly sometime soon.
If you like linear switches and want to try something new, I highly suggest complicated linear green Alps.If you like linear switches and want to try something new, I highly suggest honeywell hall effect.
Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB (I am planning a new PC build soon and I doubt it will support PS/2) are considerations for the Unicomp. Do the terminal models require anything special for the use of those extra keys?yes.
I've always considered Hall-effect to be a 1970s niche switch, not the stuff of easily attainable boards for non-collectors. Are there cheap boards out there with Hall-effect switches that are as easily compatible with modern Windows PCs as a model M?I added it up recently, and I've paid on average of less than about $20 per hall effect board.
Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB
A new unicomp will come with a warranty, for what it's worth.Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB
What do you mean warranty? Most used Model M's are as reliable today as they were 20 years ago.
A new unicomp will come with a warranty, for what it's worth.Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB
What do you mean warranty? Most used Model M's are as reliable today as they were 20 years ago.
Unless you get one with serious issues, there's a good chance any used model M will just work.
a concern regarding older Model M's not coming with a warranty, which is really a non-concern, in my opinion.
Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB (I am planning a new PC build soon and I doubt it will support PS/2) are considerations for the Unicomp. Do the terminal models require anything special for the use of those extra keys?
What has me more curious is the world of ALPS-switch keyboards. The Matias is out simply because of price, I can’t be spending that much when old classics are 30-50% cheaper, even if cleaning is an extra consideration. I don't know much about the AEK, but from looking at pictures, that layout seems a bit odd for a PC devotee, though it does seem to have all the right keys. I would have to account for some custom keycaps if I went with the AEK. The two ALPS boards I've heard most about are the Northgate Omnikey and the Dell At101w, so how do these two compare? I know the Northgate has doubleshot caps, which is really nice, but is it really worth the price over the Dell? Are there other ALPS boards to consider in the <$75 range?
Also, I've heard all ALPS are sort of 'wobbly', is this true? Wobbly keycaps are a pet peeve of mine and I would really like to minimize that if possible. How do the modern Alps-type switches like the Duckys I've seen compare to these old boards?
4. Love the AEK, AEK II and the adjustable keyboards - word of caution though, the effort you're going to need to find a ADB --> USB convertor isn't really worth the trouble, even though you would have a windows key.
Does the Dell AT101w compare to the Matias in feel? It is a much lower-priced option that still has a strong following.
Also, for the love of linear switches, what are the best boards using those complicated green Alps switches?
Does the Dell AT101w compare to the Matias in feel? It is a much lower-priced option that still has a strong following.
Also, for the love of linear switches, what are the best boards using those complicated green Alps switches?
The Dell AT101 can be a great keyboard, but there are a lot of them out there that have aged poorly and are terrible. If you get a bad one, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Note, the best Dell AT101s are the very earliest ones, I believe made by Alps, with pink/salmon Alps switches, and Alps PBT dye-sub keycaps. I imagine these are very nice to type on, on par with the Apple M0115 or the SGI “Bigfoot” keyboards. These tend to be pretty expensive though, e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261499475245
Later Dell AT101s got progressively worse in quality.
I didn't know they ever had PBT caps, but that spacebar is ABS.Yeah, spacebars for nearly all keyboards have almost always been ABS. This one is indeed quite obviously ABS. :-)
I'm thinking the Model M is the best choice for me, between its robust design and great key feel, I think it's a good bet as far as working condition and overall feel.
So now my question is, what do Iook for when buying? Any certain vintage or markings I should look for (or avoid), or any common problems to look out for that can easily be spotted on ebay listings?
Well, Unicomp producing their keyboards on Lexmark equipment, are they not? Of course they're similar
No matter what you think of Model M's as workaday keyboards, their primary allure is as collectors' items.
No matter what you think of Model M's as workaday keyboards, their primary allure is as collectors' items.Very few people are Model M “collectors”, but tons of people (at least a few tens of thousands, is my guess?) use them as “workaday” keyboards. Perhaps the “primary allure” for you is collecting them? If you’re talking about other people, then I think you’re projecting.
Very few people are Model M “collectors”, but tons of people (at least a few tens of thousands, is my guess?) use them as “workaday” keyboards. Perhaps the “primary allure” for you is collecting them?
If you’re talking about other people, then I think you’re projecting... There are some people who intentionally collect Model Ms, particularly the “industrial” ones, M15s, and other rare varieties, but that’s a tiny niche (but well represented on places like geekhack and deskthority, for obvious reasons)... I don’t think all that many people are religious about the difference between boards produced in the IBM, Lexmark, and Unicomp eras.
Looking around GH, though, is where I clued in on the whole M-collecting thing. And I couldn't help thinking that, when comparing them to Unicomps, some people's judgment might be unduly affected by the vintage mystique—you know, the idea that an original anything must be better than a reproduction, even if the "reproduction" was made to the same specs, on the same assembly line.
But I must type, and I type a lot [...] So if I did get a Model M, I’d want it to be in very good shape. There's no way I can afford an unused one (we can dream!), so it'd need to be a very well-restored one.Nah, if you buy any Model M at random from ebay, there’s a very high chance it will work perfectly out the gate, and stay working for 20 more years of heavy typing. I bought a 1987 Model M in about 2006 for $10 + $10 shipping that was dirty but otherwise in perfect condition, and happily typed on it for several years before I lost it moving across the country. Obviously prices have gone up since then, but they’re still fairly easy to find in the $40–60 shipped range.
Yeah, that's it. As you can see, bachelors, being married requires you to be way too logical about stuff, especially when you don't want to.I think most Geekhackers’ wives are well beyond the point where they’d care about the specific details of just one keyboard. The more common sentiment is probably something like “Get these 20 keyboards the hell out of my house! And why are there baggies of keycaps piled on the kitchen counter?” Or else they’ve given up entirely by now.
Very few people are Model M “collectors”, but tons of people (at least a few tens of thousands, is my guess?) use them as “workaday” keyboards. Perhaps the “primary allure” for you is collecting them? If you’re talking about other people, then I think you’re projecting.
I don’t think all that many people are religious about the difference between boards produced in the IBM, Lexmark, and Unicomp eras. But there are still a ton of keyboards from the late 80s / early 90s in continuous use.
I think most Geekhackers’ wives are well beyond the point where they’d care about the specific details of just one keyboard. The more common sentiment is probably something like “Get these 20 keyboards the hell out of my house! And why are there baggies of keycaps piled on the kitchen counter?” Or else they’ve given up entirely by now.
BTW, I haven't noticed any problems with my Unicomp's case—that it's "creaky"
No, it's not as heavy as an IBM Model M—but yikes, what is?
Lots of new MKs are held in high esteem here that aren't as heavy as Model M's either. A KB doesn't have to weigh that much to be solid.
BTW, I haven't noticed any problems with my Unicomp's case�that it's "creaky"
If you haven't noticed, it's because you haven't tested the flexibility of the case. The plastic of Unicomp cases is fairly flexible compared to most of the other boards I've used...
Okay, you've got me there. I confess�I've never felt compelled to pick up any of my KBs and try to flex them.
I'll try it with my Unicomp now. Urg... Well, the only creaking I detect is coming from my 60-year-old bones. Does it pass the test then? Gee, that's a relief. :?)
No, it's not as heavy as an IBM Model M�but yikes, what is?Quote from: 1391406The Model F, which is heavier.
So if I understand you correctly, you're pointing out that a Unicomp�which is supposed to emulate the Model M�isn't as heavy as a Model F, which is heavier than a Model M. Surprisingly, even I can follow that.
Lots of new MKs are held in high esteem here that aren't as heavy as Model M's...Quote from: 1391406Other keyboard manufacturers aren't labeling their boards as Model M's... Since Unicomp is manufacturing keyboards under that moniker, comparisons to older Model M's is inevitable. While I've never claimed Unicomp Model M's aren't necessarily solid in their own right, I certainly don't consider them as solid as older (IBM manufactured) Model M's...
As I mentioned in my Unicomp Ultra Classic review (linked above), the only mod I found necessary was to add more non-skid "feet" (spend $1 at the hardware store, then enjoy applying them). I now have a virtual Model M that, when I type on it, neither moves nor creaks. How can that be anything but good?
If it were pointlessly heavier, it'd just cost more to ship, and we'd have to pay more to get them. Sometimes "less is more".
Quote from: 1391406My contention has always been that Unicomp variants don't live up to the standards set by earlier (IBM manufactured) Model M's.
Honestly, in all respects but the typography department�and of course, the fact that it doesn't actually say "IBM", and that it's not needlessly bigger and heavier�I can't find anything about my Unicomp that seems inferior to an IBM M.
I'm completely with you about Unicomp's keycaps. They're not attractive. God knows what they were thinking with that. And yet:
- They're entirely legible.
- They're dye-sublimated.
- Their homeliness discourages you from looking at your fingers, thus encouraging faster typing.
Quote from: 1391406All kidding aside, quite a few others have noted the creaking, so yours would likely be one of the very few that doesn't. I suspect the creaking is mainly due to the change in the clamshell cover material back in '99, which I also suspect accounts for the overt case flex as well.
I don't know about you, but when I type on my Unicomp, it's lying flat on my desk. And as I've mentioned, under those conditions, it gives not the smallest hint of flexing. I assure you that, as I type on it now�indeed, vigourously, for the express purposes of this discussion�I detect no, I repeat NO, flexiness. I detect no movement whatsoever but that of the keys themselves�which, of course, must be permitted and excused under the doctrines of mechanical typey goodness.
Considering that Unicomps�unlike certain vintage corporate-acronym-associated BS KBs�are obtained and utilized as office equipment rather than as objects of fetishistic scrutiny, fondling, etc., how could their flexiness or non-flexiness whilst not being typed on possibly be of any significance?
If some people do consider such a thing important, I'd be willing to go along with it in a good-natured, "whatever-blows-your-skirt-up" kind of way (as I would, say, anyone with even the slightest interest in the Kardashians�and there are people like that, however unlikely it seems). However, it's nothing that would personally concern me. I don't think I could even talk myself into being concerned about it�and as I'm not interested in trying to talk myself into it (I just checked with myself), even that seems moot.
Quote from: 1391406No, it's not as heavy as an IBM Model M�but yikes, what is?Quote from: 1391406The Model F, which is heavier.
So if I understand you correctly, you're pointing out that a Unicomp�which is supposed to emulate the Model M�isn't as heavy as a Model F, which is heavier than a Model M. Surprisingly, even I can follow that.
You did ask what was heavier than a Model M.
Indeed, many things are heavier than a Model M. My wife, for example, although I wouldn't make a point of mentioning that without first donning my hockey gear. How is that germane to our discussion, though?
However, I see no need for Unicomps to be heavier than they are. That's all I was saying. If the Unicomp I'm typing on at this very moment were any heavier, there's no way I'd even know that unless I picked it up�and then we're back to the "does it matter?" thing.
Quote from: 1391406My contention has always been that Unicomp variants don't live up to the standards set by earlier (IBM manufactured) Model M's.
A Unicomp is not "cheaply imitative". A new Unicomp costs more than most well-used IBM M's. And if the extra value that KB enthusiasts attach to "NIB" IBM M's is any guide, such virgin untyped-upon-ness must indeed, if we are to boast any democratic principles in the course of these forumly breeze-shootings, merit a premium for the humble Unicomp as well.
Suppose you had a staff member who quit. Would you refuse to hire another unless he or she was the same colour? Why, then, make such discriminations when it comes to key colour? Have you not noticed the wild spectrum of key-colour-acceptance pervading this very forum?
my guess is that when compared to other unicomp caps, your unicomp caps are the same shade of gray. Maybe not IBM gray, though.
I think the majority of the 'degradation' we see in unicomp boards (and indeed, lexmark boards) is in the stem itself. Swapping the stems on my IBM and lexmark boards makes the IBM board feel rougher, and vice versa. That said, my Lexmark has swappable keycaps, where my IBM one does not.
Maybe it's just the model I got, but the difference is relatively noticeable to me. It isn't that bad, though.
Have you compared a Unicomp to a Lexmark, yet? The 'scratchy' one is my lexmark.
Quote from: 1391406Some rubber dome keyboards with cheap, flimsy cases don't move or exhibit case flex / creak when typed on, either. So, what does that say about the quality of the case in general? Nothing. It doesn't say anything about it. You can't determine the quality of a case simply by performing a typing test. Case quality is determined by inspecting and handling the case.
Dude, I feel compelled to ask: If a case doesn't creak or flex or move when you type on it, what exactly is it you're worried about? That it might spontaneously combust or something?
I think I'm catching on that this is actually an esthetics-based discussion, not one about actually using a product. If so, I can dig that, but that makes it more of a collector thing than a keyboard-user thing, right? And I think I'm relatively safe in saying that Unicomps, as useful, durable and fun-to-use as they are, are not in much danger of being considered collector's items. So maybe we're making more of a fuss over this than necessary. I'm just trying to follow you, though.
Quote from: 1391406If case quality has no relevance for you and you'd be just as happy typing on a keyboard with a cheap, lightweight, plastic frame, I say more power to you. That said, this isn't about one issue (eg. weight) in particular. It's about several issues collectively... They add up to a loss in standards originally set by IBM...
Indeed, many products aren't made as heavily as they were 30 years ago. Companies often overbuilt their products back then. Look at old cars, appliances, furniture... There was a thing about how purely stout stuff was, even if it didn't need to be. For most of the 20th century, people had a hugely materialistic mindset. They assumed "more" always meant "better". No doubt part of this came from the Great Depression of the '30s, when few people had enough of anything. Then the economy recovered�a big war will do that for a war-based economy�the consumer pendulum swung the other way, and suddenly everyone was obsessed with having as much of everything as they could. I'm sure historians will have a field day with that. They already are.
Yes, IBM's KBs were super-heavy and super-solid�but did they really need to be? Must a KB really weigh five and a half pounds (2.5kg) if you're not also planning to use it to beat off attackers or go mini-snowboarding with it? And while these musclebound vestiges of a former era undoubtedly have their charms, could have they skewed our judgment as to how much KB is "enough"? I'd say�yuh!
As I sit here using my Ultra Classic, it feels so solid, and sounds so wonderfully clicky-clacky, and I can't see any of its tiny cosmetic imperfections because I'm typing on it, not obsessively scrutinizing it... And I gotta say, I'm a happy buckling-spring-using dude.
Quote from: 1391406Again, what does typing on a keyboard tell you about case quality? Nothing. If you consider case quality to be irrelevant, then for all intents and purposes it doesn't really matter whether Unicomp uses a cheap, flimsy, lightweight plastic or not, as long as it has no bearing on the typing experience.
First, if I'm using it as a keyboard�and I know it may seem like a distraction to mention this, but technically, yes, a Unicomp is one of those�and its case is obviously strong enough to hold the thing firmly together for as long as I could possibly expect to remain breathing�no, I don't see a problem with that. Er, should I?
Second, Unicomp cases�"flimsy"? LOL! Dude, are you kidding?
it's not overbuilt like an IBM.
But besides that, sheerly from a product-quality viewpoint, it beats the pants off any other KB I've ever owned, used or seen. I'm actually poking myself here to be sure I'm not dreaming, that there'd ever be any reason, under any circumstances, to be concerned that this is not one hell of an example of superior, planned-obsolescence-defying workmanship.
Quote from: 1391406"Shoddy"�Inferior and imitative, yes. Compared to IBM manufactured Model M's, I certainly think so.
But again, why make something bigger and heavier than it has to be? I could walk around with my pockets filled with lead fishing weights, or wear one of those hats with fruit piled all over it like Carmen Miranda (http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2010/03/kristen-wiig-v-magazine-carmen-miranda.jpg). (Okay, that's actually Kirsten Wiig pretending she's Carmen Miranda.) But why? Why insist that stuff be goofily bigger/heavier than necessary?
This is not to say we can't appreciate the overbuilt products of the past. Personally, I love Model M's, and bulgemobiles, and huge chrome-plated toasters... But I don't demand that everything still be like that.
There's the cost thing, too. Unless you're willing to spend considerably more dough (than a Unicomp) for a professionally restored IBM�or 3/4x times as much as that for a NIB one�or spend many hours restoring one yourself, any IBM you're likely to find will be grimy, full of dirt and nosehair and spilled drinks and God knows what else, possibly have missing parts, possibly not fully work, or possibly not work at all.
Whereas any Unicomp you order is already NIB, doesn't need a USB adapter, has Windows/Super keys, and is guaranteed to work perfectly. And while no, it's not a King Kong of a keyboard like an IBM, it's more than solid enough for anyone's daily use. Really. Believe me. You shouldn't worry about this. Considering how most stuff's made these days, it borders on paranoia to worry that a Unicomp wasn't built well.
Ideally, I think we should all have an IBM and a Unicomp, so we'd get to enjoy the best of the vintage and modern buckling-spring worlds, and we'd get to support a small business that's courageously cranking out products that aren't made to wear out after a few years like everything else.
Do you think it could be possible that you might just need to, you know, get out a bit more? :?)
There's the cost thing, too. Unless you're willing to spend considerably more dough (than a Unicomp) for a professionally restored IBM—or 3/4x times as much as that for a NIB one—or spend many hours restoring one yourself, any IBM you're likely to find will be grimy, full of dirt and nosehair and spilled drinks and God knows what else, possibly have missing parts, possibly not fully work, or possibly not work at all.
Secondly, where are you getting this idea that you have to spend a lot of time or money restoring or paying someone to restore an IBM? Of all the used M's I've acquired from eBay, practically all of them worked, were in good condition, and required less than an hour of cleaning. As with anything you can find some really grimy ones on eBay, but if you look closely at the pictures and exercise a little patience, you can get a great deal on a fully working Model M in very good condition.
Where are you getting this idea that you have to spend a lot of time or money restoring or paying someone to restore an IBM? Of all the used M's I've acquired from eBay, practically all of them worked, were in good condition, and required less than an hour of cleaning. As with anything you can find some really grimy ones on eBay, but if you look closely at the pictures and exercise a little patience, you can get a great deal on a fully working Model M in very good condition.
All levity aside, no. If I got out any more, I'd practically be living in my car.
In general, a [Model M] you can get for $40–50 shipped from ebay will without much work be restored to perfect working order. You only need “professional” restoration (e.g. a bolt mod) if you want something better than the NIB original, or if the keyboard was heavily damaged. People paying 3–4x as much for a NIB one are either collectors or people who value “newness” above function per se.
Edit: My son keeps telling me he wants a purple keyboard. Okay Unicomp, do that.A purple is going to require painting or covering the case in something, but PBT keycaps are pretty easy, just get white ones and dye them.
Edit: My son keeps telling me he wants a purple keyboard. Okay Unicomp, do that.A purple is going to require painting or covering the case in something, but PBT keycaps are pretty easy, just get white ones and dye them.
Where are you getting this idea that you have to spend a lot of time or money restoring or paying someone to restore an IBM? Of all the used M's I've acquired from eBay, practically all of them worked, were in good condition, and required less than an hour of cleaning. As with anything you can find some really grimy ones on eBay, but if you look closely at the pictures and exercise a little patience, you can get a great deal on a fully working Model M in very good condition.
Dude, you're exactly right about that, too. Now that I've been more patient, and continued to look and learn, I have indeed seen some very decent deals on Model M's in fine, ready-to-go shape (perhaps with just a bit of cleanup). And for not that much more, you can get an M restored to near-original condition, even improved with case mods.
I must apologize for my rush to judgment. In our materialistic society, our first instinct is often to defend our purchases. If we're lucky, though, reality sets in.
Also, the obvious rant-type stuff I typed here was just the result of idle, creative hands without enough to do. Please don't take it personally.
Hmm, this thread has me flip-flopping. I thought had decided on an IBM, but the warranty and native USB (I am planning a new PC build soon and I doubt it will support PS/2) are considerations for the Unicomp. Do the terminal models require anything special for the use of those extra keys?I hooked a terminal Model M into the controller board for a PS/2 model M. Mine's just a 102-key, but that extra key is picked up in linux as a '.'. Windows detects the key has been pressed but doesn't have a character assigned to it.
I don't know much about the AEK, but from looking at pictures, that layout seems a bit odd for a PC devotee, though it does seem to have all the right keys. I would have to account for some custom keycaps if I went with the AEK. The two ALPS boards I've heard most about are the Northgate Omnikey and the Dell At101w, so how do these two compare? I know the Northgate has doubleshot caps, which is really nice, but is it really worth the price over the Dell? Are there other ALPS boards to consider in the <$75 range?I have not had the pleasure of owning an OmniKey, sadly (If anyone here has a crappy one with missing keys or whatever, let me know - I might be interested), but I can speak for the AT101W.
Also, I've heard all ALPS are sort of 'wobbly', is this true? Wobbly keycaps are a pet peeve of mine and I would really like to minimize that if possible. How do the modern Alps-type switches like the Duckys I've seen compare to these old boards?Yeah, ALPS caps wobble rather a lot on my AT101W. You don't notice it while you're typing generally, but you can make them wobble easily. I'd say it's not bad enough to break the keyboard or to ruin it for me.
What about Lexmark?
Comparable to the original Model M, or closer to Unicomp?
How are Lexmark in terms of quality? Unicomp, as I understand, is not quite as robust as the original IBM Model M.
How are Lexmark in terms of quality? Unicomp, as I understand, is not quite as robust as the original IBM Model M.
Okay. White Label and Lexmark are essentially indistinguishable from each other when you are talking 139 series. Quality is exactly the same as far as I can tell.
IBM Blue Label 42H clamshells are much higher quality than 42H Unicomp clamshells. (Although everything else inside is the same)
The keycap legends on the newer Unicomps are not as nice as the IBM keycap legends.
(Different font, sometimes off center, etc...There is a whole big discussion on that too.)
(I guess I was lucky with my 103, although there is a difference, it's still not too bad.)
I've heard of Unicomp legends ;)
I've been wanting to explore some non-Cherry mechanical switches for a while, and so I've recently been considering a couple of different options, namely buckling springs in Unicomps or an old IBM Model M or the modified-ALPS type Matias switch in their keyboards.
What about Lexmark? Comparable to the original Model M, or closer to Unicomp?
So how do the blue label and white label ibm compare to one another?How are Lexmark in terms of quality? Unicomp, as I understand, is not quite as robust as the original IBM Model M.
Okay. White Label and Lexmark are essentially indistinguishable from each other when you are talking 139 series. Quality is exactly the same as far as I can tell.
IBM Blue Label 42H clamshells are much higher quality than 42H Unicomp clamshells. (Although everything else inside is *essentially* the same)
The keycap legends on the newer Unicomps are not as nice as the IBM keycap legends.
(Different font, sometimes off center, etc...There is a whole big discussion on that too.)
(I guess I was lucky with my 103, although there is a difference, it's still not too bad.)
Edit: * The barrels are a bit different with the 103 key bottom row configuration. *
So how do the blue label and white label ibm compare to one another?How are Lexmark in terms of quality? Unicomp, as I understand, is not quite as robust as the original IBM Model M.
Okay. White Label and Lexmark are essentially indistinguishable from each other when you are talking 139 series. Quality is exactly the same as far as I can tell.
IBM Blue Label 42H clamshells are much higher quality than 42H Unicomp clamshells. (Although everything else inside is *essentially* the same)
The keycap legends on the newer Unicomps are not as nice as the IBM keycap legends.
(Different font, sometimes off center, etc...There is a whole big discussion on that too.)
(I guess I was lucky with my 103, although there is a difference, it's still not too bad.)
Edit: * The barrels are a bit different with the 103 key bottom row configuration. *