Hey guys, so I was looking for a new keyboard since I spilled some soy sauce on my CoolerMaster Stealth and it is not doing some odd crap and it is basically screwed up. I went to my local frys and tried out to see what I could find. However I was looking at all different types and saw the new Razer Black Widow Stealth. I have for the past years downtalking the BlackWidow and thought I would never get one again. However , after trying this one out at the store, at first I was skeptic, I thought it was some marketing BS from Razer. However after typing on this keyboard for a while , I am really liking it, like alot. It feels like a in between between browns and reds, like a Softer Browns basically and I am LOVING typing on this, just wish someone else would make this.Too bad no one knows how reliable these switches are since they are brand new.
Anyone else tried these "Razer Mechanical Switches" on the new Stealth Black Widow? It is weird, I never thought that after trying out so many different keyboards, I think this really hit the spot for me...
Hey guys, so I was looking for a new keyboard since I spilled some soy sauce on my CoolerMaster Stealth and it is not doing some odd crap and it is basically screwed up. I went to my local frys and tried out to see what I could find. However I was looking at all different types and saw the new Razer Black Widow Stealth. I have for the past years downtalking the BlackWidow and thought I would never get one again. However , after trying this one out at the store, at first I was skeptic, I thought it was some marketing BS from Razer. However after typing on this keyboard for a while , I am really liking it, like alot. It feels like a in between between browns and reds, like a Softer Browns basically and I am LOVING typing on this, just wish someone else would make this.Too bad no one knows how reliable these switches are since they are brand new.
Anyone else tried these "Razer Mechanical Switches" on the new Stealth Black Widow? It is weird, I never thought that after trying out so many different keyboards, I think this really hit the spot for me...
I always thought that the Blackwidow tournament edition (TKL, blues) was one of the most attractively priced and best bang for buck mechanical keyboard options that were available in my country.
I also think that you do not have to apologize for what you like. Everyone has their own preferences. Once you have a keyboard, you can disregard brand, and just focus on how a keyboard feels instead.
Finally, I think that almost all mechanical keyboards are too loud to be of any use to me. Too loud to use at work, too loud to use in the living room. Basically useless. I would probably get more practical use out of that Razer than I would out of any respected brand that uses Cherry MX switches without a silent option.
@Grim, yeah they are really attractive overall and do last for most people for a while I think they have improved recently ( atleast for now) .I always thought that the Blackwidow tournament edition (TKL, blues) was one of the most attractively priced and best bang for buck mechanical keyboard options that were available in my country.
I also think that you do not have to apologize for what you like. Everyone has their own preferences. Once you have a keyboard, you can disregard brand, and just focus on how a keyboard feels instead.
Finally, I think that almost all mechanical keyboards are too loud to be of any use to me. Too loud to use at work, too loud to use in the living room. Basically useless. I would probably get more practical use out of that Razer than I would out of any respected brand that uses Cherry MX switches without a silent option.
Wait what.. is the BW more silent than others, all of sudden ? O.o or have I missed something? The stealth version simply yas the equivalent of mx browns from what I've heard and tried of em..
To OP: I do like the BW as well ^^ but haven't tried it for a longer perios. I almost ended up with a bw tkl, but bought a HHKB instead :))
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58185.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60389.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60139.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59245.0
Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/punch-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862516)
I always thought that the Blackwidow tournament edition (TKL, blues) was one of the most attractively priced and best bang for buck mechanical keyboard options that were available in my country.
I also think that you do not have to apologize for what you like. Everyone has their own preferences. Once you have a keyboard, you can disregard brand, and just focus on how a keyboard feels instead.
Finally, I think that almost all mechanical keyboards are too loud to be of any use to me. Too loud to use at work, too loud to use in the living room. Basically useless. I would probably get more practical use out of that Razer than I would out of any respected brand that uses Cherry MX switches without a silent option.
Hey guys, so I was looking for a new keyboard since I spilled some soy sauce on my CoolerMaster Stealth and it is not doing some odd crap and it is basically screwed up. I went to my local frys and tried out to see what I could find. However I was looking at all different types and saw the new Razer Black Widow Stealth. I have for the past years downtalking the BlackWidow and thought I would never get one again. However , after trying this one out at the store, at first I was skeptic, I thought it was some marketing BS from Razer. However after typing on this keyboard for a while , I am really liking it, like alot. It feels like a in between between browns and reds, like a Softer Browns basically and I am LOVING typing on this, just wish someone else would make this.
Anyone else tried these "Razer Mechanical Switches" on the new Stealth Black Widow? It is weird, I never thought that after trying out so many different keyboards, I think this really hit the spot for me...
The problem is generally Razer has awful build quality / durability across all their products =\
Anyway best of luck to your BW
The problem is generally Razer has awful build quality / durability across all their products =\
Anyway best of luck to your BW
Yep. Deathadders seem to be the only product that doesn't fall apart within 6 months to a year. At least, in my experience. Everything I've owned from them broke down from the ****ty quality of the plastic used.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I'm not sure I understood this broken message properly but there's a high failure rate to Razer products. I've owned them, I've known others who owned them and I discuss them.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I'm not sure I understood this broken message properly but there's a high failure rate to Razer products. I've owned them, I've known others who owned them and I discuss them.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
Have you personally owned the current stealth switch? Don't rely so much on hearsay but get your own experience first then you can expound on the quality of razer's 2014 stealth edition.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Razer products. I've also been given plenty of their peripherals for free. I've assisted with giveaways at conventions. I stopped supporting these products because everything I've had has broken down. I continued to buy from them because of their flawless marketing, on top of the fact that my friends are sponsored by them and I wanted to support them.
I ended up at GH trying to find a replacement for my 12th Naga and advice on replacing my Orochi (which had also broken) and keyboard (which had also broken). It has nothing to do with being a member of GH. I came here because I wanted real responses from people who had used QUALITY peripherals, because I didn't feel like I was getting quality from Razer. As I've learned, I was correct, I wasn't. I have peripherals from Corsair that I've had for 4-5 years that have been thrown against walls and still work like they did out of the box. I never mistreated my Razer products and each Naga became a Maraca (if you've had one fall apart from the inside, you know what I'm talking about), the buttons stopped working on every other mouse I've owned from them within a year, keyboard switches became unresponsive, or the plastic began breaking for no plausible reason and each headset I've had broke down either structurally or electronically within 12 months.
I'm not a snob. I wouldn't consider CoolerMaster & Corsair to be enthusiast brands. I own and support their products, even if they aren't what I choose to use most now. I think Razer products are junk because they are.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet your dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If your not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet your dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If your not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
I question you joining Geekhack too. Seems like you joined to be an *******. Mission accomplished. That's just my personal taste though.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet your dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If your not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
I question you joining Geekhack too. Seems like you joined to be an *******. Mission accomplished. That's just my personal taste though.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Razer products. I've also been given plenty of their peripherals for free. I've assisted with giveaways at conventions. I stopped supporting these products because everything I've had has broken down. I continued to buy from them because of their flawless marketing, on top of the fact that my friends are sponsored by them and I wanted to support them.
I ended up at GH trying to find a replacement for my 12th Naga and advice on replacing my Orochi (which had also broken) and keyboard (which had also broken). It has nothing to do with being a member of GH. I came here because I wanted real responses from people who had used QUALITY peripherals, because I didn't feel like I was getting quality from Razer. As I've learned, I was correct, I wasn't. I have peripherals from Corsair that I've had for 4-5 years that have been thrown against walls and still work like they did out of the box. I never mistreated my Razer products and each Naga became a Maraca (if you've had one fall apart from the inside, you know what I'm talking about), the buttons stopped working on every other mouse I've owned from them within a year, keyboard switches became unresponsive, or the plastic began breaking for no plausible reason and each headset I've had broke down either structurally or electronically within 12 months.
I'm not a snob. I wouldn't consider CoolerMaster & Corsair to be enthusiast brands. I own and support their products, even if they aren't what I choose to use most now. I think Razer products are junk because they are.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet you're dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If you're not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
Who exactly forced you to spend thousands of dollars on razer products anyway? Did they just suit your color scheme?
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
Huh, didn't know it was a softer brown O.o bear in mind the only brown switches I've tried besides razer's orange are the ones on the G710+, which, from what I've understood, really ain't a good starting point :))
Anywhoo.. I would DEFO recommend you pull the trigger on a HHKB :D Both formfactor and layout are just simply great, love it to death, but topre really isn't my thing (I don't think it is, at least). That's why I've just ordered a Poker 2 with mx clears from massdrop ^^
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Razer products. I've also been given plenty of their peripherals for free. I've assisted with giveaways at conventions. I stopped supporting these products because everything I've had has broken down. I continued to buy from them because of their flawless marketing, on top of the fact that my friends are sponsored by them and I wanted to support them.
I ended up at GH trying to find a replacement for my 12th Naga and advice on replacing my Orochi (which had also broken) and keyboard (which had also broken). It has nothing to do with being a member of GH. I came here because I wanted real responses from people who had used QUALITY peripherals, because I didn't feel like I was getting quality from Razer. As I've learned, I was correct, I wasn't. I have peripherals from Corsair that I've had for 4-5 years that have been thrown against walls and still work like they did out of the box. I never mistreated my Razer products and each Naga became a Maraca (if you've had one fall apart from the inside, you know what I'm talking about), the buttons stopped working on every other mouse I've owned from them within a year, keyboard switches became unresponsive, or the plastic began breaking for no plausible reason and each headset I've had broke down either structurally or electronically within 12 months.
I'm not a snob. I wouldn't consider CoolerMaster & Corsair to be enthusiast brands. I own and support their products, even if they aren't what I choose to use most now. I think Razer products are junk because they are.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet you're dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If you're not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
Who exactly forced you to spend thousands of dollars on razer products anyway? Did they just suit your color scheme?
You should probably find my first post in the classifieds, where I was taunted for taking MORE THAN AN ENTIRE YEAR to reach 100 posts. Also, I make keycaps. You don't think they fit on the exact same design of MX stems that Razer created? Not sure how I profit from people not purchasing Razer products. I was complaining about Razer before I ever started making keycaps (which was a recent thing, by the way).
I'm complaining about the quality of materials and the crafstmanship of their products, not the design.
No one forced me to purchase Razer products. I liked the way they looked and I'm one of those people that is a sucker for good marketing. I had their stickers all over my car and my PC case. I was in love with them. I even took home a free Neon Red Kraken from Dreamhack this summer because it was pretty. No intention on using it, but I still love the way most of their products look.
I'm in that video behind Swifty and Chinglish in the white jeans and turquoise top. I'm not being fake. I'm sure you could scour the internet for my complaints about my many, many Nagas.
This is the first time I contacted them about it:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ai9d0vO.png)
Oh, and here is my date of joining GH:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iGoY2FQ.png)
Like I said, I tried with them. Their customer service was good, their stuff is pretty, but it DOES NOT LAST.
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
Huh, didn't know it was a softer brown O.o bear in mind the only brown switches I've tried besides razer's orange are the ones on the G710+, which, from what I've understood, really ain't a good starting point :))
Anywhoo.. I would DEFO recommend you pull the trigger on a HHKB :D Both formfactor and layout are just simply great, love it to death, but topre really isn't my thing (I don't think it is, at least). That's why I've just ordered a Poker 2 with mx clears from massdrop ^^
Have you typed on clears before? I really like the way they look, but I'm so used to reds I wonder if they would be too much for me.
They are claiming to have improved cherry's switch for gaming especially with their green switch but only in the 2014 edition.
Nope, never tried em. Switches are hard to come by where I love.. All I've tried is a G710+, BW orange and green, pluss the steelseries mech board (can't remember it's name, but it got black switches), and a k95. Reds, browns and "greens" were too light for me. Black was pretty okey. Planning to mod my clears though ^_^
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
Huh, didn't know it was a softer brown O.o bear in mind the only brown switches I've tried besides razer's orange are the ones on the G710+, which, from what I've understood, really ain't a good starting point :))
Anywhoo.. I would DEFO recommend you pull the trigger on a HHKB :D Both formfactor and layout are just simply great, love it to death, but topre really isn't my thing (I don't think it is, at least). That's why I've just ordered a Poker 2 with mx clears from massdrop ^^
Have you typed on clears before? I really like the way they look, but I'm so used to reds I wonder if they would be too much for me.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Razer products. I've also been given plenty of their peripherals for free. I've assisted with giveaways at conventions. I stopped supporting these products because everything I've had has broken down. I continued to buy from them because of their flawless marketing, on top of the fact that my friends are sponsored by them and I wanted to support them.
I ended up at GH trying to find a replacement for my 12th Naga and advice on replacing my Orochi (which had also broken) and keyboard (which had also broken). It has nothing to do with being a member of GH. I came here because I wanted real responses from people who had used QUALITY peripherals, because I didn't feel like I was getting quality from Razer. As I've learned, I was correct, I wasn't. I have peripherals from Corsair that I've had for 4-5 years that have been thrown against walls and still work like they did out of the box. I never mistreated my Razer products and each Naga became a Maraca (if you've had one fall apart from the inside, you know what I'm talking about), the buttons stopped working on every other mouse I've owned from them within a year, keyboard switches became unresponsive, or the plastic began breaking for no plausible reason and each headset I've had broke down either structurally or electronically within 12 months.
I'm not a snob. I wouldn't consider CoolerMaster & Corsair to be enthusiast brands. I own and support their products, even if they aren't what I choose to use most now. I think Razer products are junk because they are.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet you're dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If you're not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
Who exactly forced you to spend thousands of dollars on razer products anyway? Did they just suit your color scheme?
You should probably find my first post in the classifieds, where I was taunted for taking MORE THAN AN ENTIRE YEAR to reach 100 posts. Also, I make keycaps. You don't think they fit on the exact same design of MX stems that Razer created? Not sure how I profit from people not purchasing Razer products. I was complaining about Razer before I ever started making keycaps (which was a recent thing, by the way).
I'm complaining about the quality of materials and the crafstmanship of their products, not the design.
No one forced me to purchase Razer products. I liked the way they looked and I'm one of those people that is a sucker for good marketing. I had their stickers all over my car and my PC case. I was in love with them. I even took home a free Neon Red Kraken from Dreamhack this summer because it was pretty. No intention on using it, but I still love the way most of their products look.
I'm in that video behind Swifty and Chinglish in the white jeans and turquoise top. I'm not being fake. I'm sure you could scour the internet for my complaints about my many, many Nagas.
This is the first time I contacted them about it:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ai9d0vO.png)
Oh, and here is my date of joining GH:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iGoY2FQ.png)
Like I said, I tried with them. Their customer service was good, their stuff is pretty, but it DOES NOT LAST.
Haha, I'm talking about Razer's green, mate :)) it's the equivalent of a blue mx switch!They are claiming to have improved cherry's switch for gaming especially with their green switch but only in the 2014 edition.
That's Razer marketing speak for, "We're sourcing a knockoff Chinese switch that's cheaper for us, but we're still going to charge the same price as when we were using real Cherry switches."Nope, never tried em. Switches are hard to come by where I love.. All I've tried is a G710+, BW orange and green, pluss the steelseries mech board (can't remember it's name, but it got black switches), and a k95. Reds, browns and "greens" were too light for me. Black was pretty okey. Planning to mod my clears though ^_^
You should slap some 85g springs on those clears if you thought greens were too light.
Haha, I'm talking about Razer's green, mate :)) it's the equivalent of a blue mx switch!They are claiming to have improved cherry's switch for gaming especially with their green switch but only in the 2014 edition.
That's Razer marketing speak for, "We're sourcing a knockoff Chinese switch that's cheaper for us, but we're still going to charge the same price as when we were using real Cherry switches."Nope, never tried em. Switches are hard to come by where I love.. All I've tried is a G710+, BW orange and green, pluss the steelseries mech board (can't remember it's name, but it got black switches), and a k95. Reds, browns and "greens" were too light for me. Black was pretty okey. Planning to mod my clears though ^_^
You should slap some 85g springs on those clears if you thought greens were too light.
Who knows.. but I had literally nothing to compare it to. I'vd never tried proper blues :/Haha, I'm talking about Razer's green, mate :)) it's the equivalent of a blue mx switch!They are claiming to have improved cherry's switch for gaming especially with their green switch but only in the 2014 edition.
That's Razer marketing speak for, "We're sourcing a knockoff Chinese switch that's cheaper for us, but we're still going to charge the same price as when we were using real Cherry switches."Nope, never tried em. Switches are hard to come by where I love.. All I've tried is a G710+, BW orange and green, pluss the steelseries mech board (can't remember it's name, but it got black switches), and a k95. Reds, browns and "greens" were too light for me. Black was pretty okey. Planning to mod my clears though ^_^
You should slap some 85g springs on those clears if you thought greens were too light.
Their greens didn't really impress me , felt the same or a little less comfortable than some blues i have had(just a little more resistance in the razer ones).I don't know if it was that keyboard specifically or not.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I'm not sure I understood this broken message properly but there's a high failure rate to Razer products. I've owned them, I've known others who owned them and I discuss them.
Maybe a glitch in your comprehension. Have you personally owned the current stealth switch? Don't rely so much on hearsay but get your own experience first then you can expound on the quality of razer's 2014 stealth edition. I think people have mainly complained about keys repeating but as I said you don't need synapse for the keyboard to work. Just don't install synapse. Ok you'll lose some gaming functionality but not the typing experience which the OP loves and another flippant love it one day despise it the next reviewer. Ask fohat if he needs to use each and every key of his behemoths in order to enjoy the satisfaction of actually typing on them.
Anything you can't comprehend? See an English teacher for new arrivals.
Also, are KULs tried and tested yet in large enough quantities and for their full declared number of keystrokes for us to be proclaiming them as better than filcos as tactical does for elitekeyboards? Kailh's have been around longer than keyed up labs and razer has only said to have had improved them. Certainly ppl have said there is less wobble and the boards have been torn down and proven to be of solid construction. Enough with the disingenuous obfuscation regarding razer borne out of jealousy no doubt.
well if a black widow then hhkb type s?
The problem is generally Razer has awful build quality / durability across all their products =\
Anyway best of luck to your BW
but I do think that it's the "in thing" to hate on Razer, if my experience is any indication.
The problem is generally Razer has awful build quality / durability across all their products =\
Anyway best of luck to your BW
I really think the experience can vary a lot. My old BlackWidow Ultimate has never missed a beat, and feels a little better made than my older Das Ultimate, although the keycaps are really crappy.
Having said that, my Razer Imperator mouse, while great when it works properly, sometimes gets all bugged up and one axis will stop responding intermittently.
I think that the BW Tournament edition is pretty well made at a decent enough price.
What I have to give at least some credit to Razer for, though, is that they actually made the BWU widely available so I could try out a mechanical board in person. Back when I started, this was important to me, as I could try MX Blue and MX Brown in person at my local BestBuy. Now, the computer stores stock even more types of mechanical boards, which is great, but I have to give a nod to the ones who were there early on.
I still use my BWU with MX Blue, despite also having many other boards, and I probably will continue to as it's not as bad as all that. I'm sure Razer quality can be bad on some product, and their marketing is certainly questionable, but I do think that it's the "in thing" to hate on Razer, if my experience is any indication.
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Razer products. I've also been given plenty of their peripherals for free. I've assisted with giveaways at conventions. I stopped supporting these products because everything I've had has broken down. I continued to buy from them because of their flawless marketing, on top of the fact that my friends are sponsored by them and I wanted to support them.
I ended up at GH trying to find a replacement for my 12th Naga and advice on replacing my Orochi (which had also broken) and keyboard (which had also broken). It has nothing to do with being a member of GH. I came here because I wanted real responses from people who had used QUALITY peripherals, because I didn't feel like I was getting quality from Razer. As I've learned, I was correct, I wasn't. I have peripherals from Corsair that I've had for 4-5 years that have been thrown against walls and still work like they did out of the box. I never mistreated my Razer products and each Naga became a Maraca (if you've had one fall apart from the inside, you know what I'm talking about), the buttons stopped working on every other mouse I've owned from them within a year, keyboard switches became unresponsive, or the plastic began breaking for no plausible reason and each headset I've had broke down either structurally or electronically within 12 months.
I'm not a snob. I wouldn't consider CoolerMaster & Corsair to be enthusiast brands. I own and support their products, even if they aren't what I choose to use most now. I think Razer products are junk because they are.
Well I question the veracity of your experience with Razer products as well as your reason for coming to geekhack. Aren't you already somewhat famous yet you're dabbling in making artisan keycaps for goodness sakes. Hope they prove worthy of being the victim of fakes only to prove their popularity. If you're not in it for profit I don't personally see any merit in your erstwhile attempts but that's just my personal taste.
Who exactly forced you to spend thousands of dollars on razer products anyway? Did they just suit your color scheme?
You should probably find my first post in the classifieds, where I was taunted for taking MORE THAN AN ENTIRE YEAR to reach 100 posts. Also, I make keycaps. You don't think they fit on the exact same design of MX stems that Razer created? Not sure how I profit from people not purchasing Razer products. I was complaining about Razer before I ever started making keycaps (which was a recent thing, by the way).
I'm complaining about the quality of materials and the crafstmanship of their products, not the design.
No one forced me to purchase Razer products. I liked the way they looked and I'm one of those people that is a sucker for good marketing. I had their stickers all over my car and my PC case. I was in love with them. I even took home a free Neon Red Kraken from Dreamhack this summer because it was pretty. No intention on using it, but I still love the way most of their products look.
I'm in that video behind Swifty and Chinglish in the white jeans and turquoise top. I'm not being fake. I'm sure you could scour the internet for my complaints about my many, many Nagas.
This is the first time I contacted them about it:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ai9d0vO.png)
Oh, and here is my date of joining GH:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iGoY2FQ.png)
Like I said, I tried with them. Their customer service was good, their stuff is pretty, but it DOES NOT LAST.
I appreciate your civil and insightful response. I will indeed do some scouring. But if anytime was the time to be suckered by razer's marketing it's now. They are claiming to have improved cherry's switch for gaming especially with their green switch but only in the 2014 edition. I just discovered a love of the orange switch. Still can't get frag1lity's complete turnaround. He may be a she who loves red switches.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
That's what I'm thinking...I've never had an issue with a single razer product...I must either really take care of my stuff, or be an outlier. Then again, I haven't owned one of their keyboards since my lycosa, and that ended when I came to college.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
That's what I'm thinking...I've never had an issue with a single razer product...I must either really take care of my stuff, or be an outlier. Then again, I haven't owned one of their keyboards since my lycosa, and that ended when I came to college.
AFAIK it's hit or miss for most products -- though certain products have faired better than others among owners. Nagas have overwhelming amounts of people with the same problem I had for every single one of mine. Within one year, it falls apart from the inside. None of the others were quite as dramatically broken as that mouse.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
That's what I'm thinking...I've never had an issue with a single razer product...I must either really take care of my stuff, or be an outlier. Then again, I haven't owned one of their keyboards since my lycosa, and that ended when I came to college.
AFAIK it's hit or miss for most products -- though certain products have faired better than others among owners. Nagas have overwhelming amounts of people with the same problem I had for every single one of mine. Within one year, it falls apart from the inside. None of the others were quite as dramatically broken as that mouse.
"Hit or miss" does not inspire confidence!
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
That's what I'm thinking...I've never had an issue with a single razer product...I must either really take care of my stuff, or be an outlier. Then again, I haven't owned one of their keyboards since my lycosa, and that ended when I came to college.
AFAIK it's hit or miss for most products -- though certain products have faired better than others among owners. Nagas have overwhelming amounts of people with the same problem I had for every single one of mine. Within one year, it falls apart from the inside. None of the others were quite as dramatically broken as that mouse.
"Hit or miss" does not inspire confidence!
Which is why I stopped purchasing. Though they do adhere to their warranties and quickly, it's too much of a hassle if your stuff is "miss".
Then there's also the problem if your Razer product is a miss and breaks right after the warranty period (which I see complaints about all the time on another forum
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
you sure your power supply or mobo isn't putting out bad 5v killing all ur usb stuffs. ?
In b4 quickest ban in GH history. Came out of lurking sick of the hypocrisy, misleading information and demik loving. Ban him he's useless. What boards does he even like. He just abuses noobs and says 'noted'. The milk is sour already!
In b4 quickest ban in GH history. Came out of lurking sick of the hypocrisy, misleading information and demik loving. Ban him he's useless. What boards does he even like. He just abuses noobs and says 'noted'. The milk is sour already!
*sirens* This is the demik police. We have received complaints of someone demik-hating. That is against geekhack law. We're going to need you to come down to geekhack headquarters for your banning due to insolence and libel against the demik name.
/s
In all seriousness, play the victim some more, dude. Or not, because you sound like a whiny ***** who can't take anything being said to them. Maybe you were better off just being a lurker.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
you sure your power supply or mobo isn't putting out bad 5v killing all ur usb stuffs. ?
And who are you?
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
your stupid post count means nothing punk. just cos the resident demik was banned or watever does mean ur the new big dog well go step in ur own doggie do
your post count...go frame it....ur grandchildren would be so proud
your stupid post count means nothing punk. just cos the resident demik was banned or watever does mean ur the new big dog well go step in ur own doggie do
your post count...go frame it....ur grandchildren would be so proud
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
your stupid post count means nothing punk. just cos the resident demik was banned or watever does mean ur the new big dog well go step in ur own doggie do
your post count...go frame it....ur grandchildren would be so proud
"The last topic report from your IP was less than 40 seconds ago. Please try again later."
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
your stupid post count means nothing punk. just cos the resident demik was banned or watever does mean ur the new big dog well go step in ur own doggie do
your post count...go frame it....ur grandchildren would be so proud
My posts mean worlds more than your drivel means at this point. Any time someone looks in your direction funny, it's time to call 911, but no one even sees you. You're the only person tearing yourself down. Do you hate demik or me because your life is pathetic and someone actually pays attention to us? Is it your initial reaction to respond caustically when someone says your name due to a bad history of bullying and inadequacy? What is it that is really the root cause of your pain, because it isn't me, and it isn't any other member here.
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
lol
Does your post count give you super powers?
your stupid post count means nothing punk. just cos the resident demik was banned or watever does mean ur the new big dog well go step in ur own doggie do
your post count...go frame it....ur grandchildren would be so proud
My posts mean worlds more than your drivel means at this point. Any time someone looks in your direction funny, it's time to call 911, but no one even sees you. You're the only person tearing yourself down. Do you hate demik or me because your life is pathetic and someone actually pays attention to us? Is it your initial reaction to respond caustically when someone says your name due to a bad history of bullying and inadequacy? What is it that is really the root cause of your pain, because it isn't me, and it isn't any other member here.
why are you making this your business. ppl don't like A holes so don't be one. even demik has changed and i helped him out today. ur not anonymous ur playing clint eastwood.
And who are you?
****, son. Don't you see my ****ing post count? I matter in this *****, obviously. Step your game up before you come at me sideways.
I'm nobody. I'm somebody. I'm the person telling you what I'm telling you, and I'm the person you're responding. If your intent was to take away from me by suggesting I'm nobody, you would've been better off not responding at all.
lol
I would expect the joke to go over your head, pinche pendejo. But hey, come on in and remind us all how you shouldn't be a moderator acting as unprofessional as you do.
Internet bullying at it's finest.
Internet bullying at it's finest.
Ah, is that what I am? And you're so much better making your indirect remarks at every comment I say? Do you sit on my profile page, waiting for the next thing I say so you can do it again? And if that's your honest opinion, didn't your mother teach you the best way to handle bullies is to ignore them? But if memory serves me correctly, you tried that and you just couldn't stay away.
wow the world really revolves around you
post count == epeen
Does your post count give you super powers?
wow the world really revolves around you
post count == epeen
I truly give zero ****s about my post count. I brought it up because it apparently matters to you. Or did you forget how you attack members for their post count, trying to relate it to something about them? Let me refresh your memory:Does your post count give you super powers?
Apparently you're the one making comparisons of your internet **** to others based on post count, not me.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
And this is the end of our conversation? "Please leave me alone. I will attempt to belittle you by making it appear as though you don't matter, as a means of proving my argument." Is that your final response?
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
And this is the end of our conversation? "Please leave me alone. I will attempt to belittle you by making it appear as though you don't matter, as a means of proving my argument." Is that your final response?
war with the mods, inflated sense of ego, and the need to protect the despised. I suppose you can only empathise and so the conversation continues. Besides ur post count what have you contributed to this community in a positive manner in your opinion. You seem reasonable. So please expound. Post count is so very frivolous.
wow the world really revolves around you
post count == epeen
I truly give zero ****s about my post count. I brought it up because it apparently matters to you. Or did you forget how you attack members for their post count, trying to relate it to something about them? Let me refresh your memory:Does your post count give you super powers?
Apparently you're the one making comparisons of your internet **** to others based on post count, not me.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
And this is the end of our conversation? "Please leave me alone. I will attempt to belittle you by making it appear as though you don't matter, as a means of proving my argument." Is that your final response?
war with the mods, inflated sense of ego, and the need to protect the despised. I suppose you can only empathise and so the conversation continues. Besides ur post count what have you contributed to this community in a positive manner in your opinion. You seem reasonable. So please expound. Post count is so very frivolous.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
And this is the end of our conversation? "Please leave me alone. I will attempt to belittle you by making it appear as though you don't matter, as a means of proving my argument." Is that your final response?
war with the mods, inflated sense of ego, and the need to protect the despised. I suppose you can only empathise and so the conversation continues. Besides ur post count what have you contributed to this community in a positive manner in your opinion. You seem reasonable. So please expound. Post count is so very frivolous.
Were you a member of the forum under another name?
war with the mods, inflated sense of ego, and the need to protect the despised. I suppose you can only empathise and so the conversation continues. Besides ur post count what have you contributed to this community in a positive manner in your opinion. You seem reasonable. So please expound. Post count is so very frivolous.
You need to chill dude. I don't think this community would be any worse off with you gone. Go on...in say 3 months a dribble of folks may notice ur gone.
And this is the end of our conversation? "Please leave me alone. I will attempt to belittle you by making it appear as though you don't matter, as a means of proving my argument." Is that your final response?
war with the mods, inflated sense of ego, and the need to protect the despised. I suppose you can only empathise and so the conversation continues. Besides ur post count what have you contributed to this community in a positive manner in your opinion. You seem reasonable. So please expound. Post count is so very frivolous.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
Huh, didn't know it was a softer brown O.o bear in mind the only brown switches I've tried besides razer's orange are the ones on the G710+, which, from what I've understood, really ain't a good starting point :))
Anywhoo.. I would DEFO recommend you pull the trigger on a HHKB :D Both formfactor and layout are just simply great, love it to death, but topre really isn't my thing (I don't think it is, at least). That's why I've just ordered a Poker 2 with mx clears from massdrop ^^
Have you typed on clears before? I really like the way they look, but I'm so used to reds I wonder if they would be too much for me.
You like the way clears look? Buy one fc660m with clears and trying typing on it. It feels kind of spongy to me. Filco browns with thick imsto pbt trumps stock clears with pbt IMO. But I like the feel of the key stroke to be like a woman's skin. Smooth. So I like reds the most especially on vortex boards. I got a zippy Bluetooth one and a iKBC 104 key and they are my faves. The k65 and Filco not so good. The hpe I put down to not liking the dsa caps I stuck on them. I like Pom caps on reds like others. Cheers, Cherpalla. Btw, forgot I also have a poker 2 backlit with reds and a fc660m with reds. The poker is better to me than the Leo. It's interesting how switches feel across different boards in terms of perceived weight and enjoyment.
In b4 quickest ban in GH history. Came out of lurking sick of the hypocrisy, misleading information and demik loving. Ban him he's useless. What boards does he even like. He just abuses noobs and says 'noted'. The milk is sour already!
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I'm sure it's not, but if buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who purchased a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I'm sure it's not, but if buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who purchased a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Most reviews are done within a few weeks of owning a product, at least on Amazon. If you notice, most of the 3 star and below reviews have to do with problems with the keys being non-responsive within a few months of ownership.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I'm sure it's not, but if buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who purchased a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Most reviews are done within a few weeks of owning a product, at least on Amazon. If you notice, most of the 3 star and below reviews have to do with problems with the keys being non-responsive within a few months of ownership.
Amazon reviews can be edited. Anyone who's ultimately unhappy with a product can update their rating and/or review at any time. Frankly, I have little reason to believe only those with negative experiences wait months vs. those with positive experiences. Either way, anyone who's ultimately unhappy can change their review, even years down the road.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I'm sure it's not, but if buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who purchased a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Most reviews are done within a few weeks of owning a product, at least on Amazon. If you notice, most of the 3 star and below reviews have to do with problems with the keys being non-responsive within a few months of ownership.
Amazon reviews can be edited. Anyone who's ultimately unhappy with a product can update their rating and/or review at any time. Frankly, I have little reason to believe only those with negative experiences wait months vs. those with positive experiences. Either way, anyone who's ultimately unhappy can change their review, even years down the road.
Can they, yes. Do they? Probably not.
At any rate, the response is not overwhelmingly positive. It's what I would expect. 4 stars.
Enough people describing the same issues as described with other Razer products and on this board to say it is another hit or miss product, though not as bad as a lot of their other peripherals, namely their mice.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I'm sure it's not, but if buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who purchased a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Most reviews are done within a few weeks of owning a product, at least on Amazon. If you notice, most of the 3 star and below reviews have to do with problems with the keys being non-responsive within a few months of ownership.
Amazon reviews can be edited. Anyone who's ultimately unhappy with a product can update their rating and/or review at any time. Frankly, I have little reason to believe only those with negative experiences wait months vs. those with positive experiences. Either way, anyone who's ultimately unhappy can change their review, even years down the road.
Can they, yes. Do they? Probably not.
There's a reason they don't, and that was my point.At any rate, the response is not overwhelmingly positive. It's what I would expect. 4 stars.
Since when is four stars mediocre? While it may not be overwhelmingly excellent, it's at least overwhelmingly positive, that is if the highest possible rating is 5.Enough people describing the same issues as described with other Razer products and on this board to say it is another hit or miss product, though not as bad as a lot of their other peripherals, namely their mice.
Visit forums for practically any product and you'll find that the most vocal members are often those experiencing problems, and that's understandable given they're disgruntled and looking for solutions or trying to warn others. Happy customers are typically busy actually using a product. No company is perfect, though.
My main criticism of Razer's keyboards has more to do with the glossy finish, shoddy key caps, and key font. That said, it's not just Amazon and Newegg reviews that are overwhelmingly positive, but numerous magazine and tech site reviews. How many reputable tech sites can you find that review Blackwidow's negatively vs. positively? Follow that up with YouTube reviews by buyers. That isn't to say there aren't negative reviews. They're out there, sure, but from what I've seen they're overshadowed by far more positive reviews.
Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your Black Widow and ram it up your ****ter with a lubricated MX Black!
Overwhelmingly positive = 4.5+, which on a site like Amazon is where you want to be when buying expensive products. I don't trust the general public with reviews, so if something has hundreds of reviews, I don't trust it if it isn't nearly 5 stars.
Anyway, like I've said numerous times, it would seem that this is a more hit than miss product, at least for general consumers. It doesn't change the fact that my experience is miss, with multiple peripherals and the Naga specifically over and over again until I was completely fed up. Not sure how you're not getting that. I wouldn't spend my money on them based on my experience, and hearing that experience hasn't dramatically improved with their newer products doesn't give me any sort of faith in them to give it another shot.
I would consider them to be the mechanical keyboard that people buy first because it's what's been marketed to them. Maybe that's a bit cynical, but that's their own fault for selling me crap over and over again for years.
did razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
Overwhelmingly positive = 4.5+, which on a site like Amazon is where you want to be when buying expensive products. I don't trust the general public with reviews, so if something has hundreds of reviews, I don't trust it if it isn't nearly 5 stars.
By definition, overwhelmingly means 'mostly by far'. Since most (over half) of the reviewers gave it a 5 star rating, by definition the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. That said, it seems completely obvious, at least to me, that anything above 3 stars is not only generally considered acceptable but positive. Even 3 stars might be considered fairly positive, since neutral rests in the middle, at 2.5 stars. As an example, I can't think of any gaming magazine that considers games with 4 stars to be a less than positive rating, and if all reviews for a game were ranked 4 stars, it would likewise be considered overwhelmingly positive. Perhaps you can find a rating system that considers 4 stars to be less than positive on a scale from 1 to 5, though.Anyway, like I've said numerous times, it would seem that this is a more hit than miss product, at least for general consumers. It doesn't change the fact that my experience is miss, with multiple peripherals and the Naga specifically over and over again until I was completely fed up. Not sure how you're not getting that. I wouldn't spend my money on them based on my experience, and hearing that experience hasn't dramatically improved with their newer products doesn't give me any sort of faith in them to give it another shot.
The original comment I replied to was in reference not to just your experience, but that of other buyers:
"You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers."I would consider them to be the mechanical keyboard that people buy first because it's what's been marketed to them. Maybe that's a bit cynical, but that's their own fault for selling me crap over and over again for years.
I can only speak for myself, but Razer's marketing isn't what prompted me to try, much less buy, their products. I was interested in trying MX Blues based on several YouTube videos I'd seen. Incidentally, none of those videos were even of a Razer keyboard. The main reason I bought a Blackwidow is because that was the only keyboard with MX Blues at Frys, and after trying it in-store for myself I was hooked.
did razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
I honestly don't feel like responding to all of this, but I will say that you can't rate a half a star or 0 stars, the median is 3, not 2.5.
My comment about it not being limited to GHers was to point out that this isn't an elitist opinion, those of us that have an issue with Razer on GH are joined by people who know little to nothing about Mechanical Keyboards at all.
did razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
No, wtf?
I have owned like 4 different coolermaster keyboards and I think the only thing razer I own is this keyboard and a old mousepad of theirs. Past 4 keyboards coolermaster, before that corsair , a ducky, 2 original IBM model Ms, and such. I am not a razer fanboy as I have crap talked them for years before this but was impressed by this new stuff. Before this keyboard I would be back to recommending other keyboards. Just found a switch I liked.
I don't know the other dude with the love thread and I think I made this before him but not sure. My first posts here were regarding model Ms too, I have gone all over and was surprised I would ever like anything keyboard related by this company.
did razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
No, wtf?
I have owned like 4 different coolermaster keyboards and I think the only thing razer I own is this keyboard and a old mousepad of theirs. Past 4 keyboards coolermaster, before that corsair , a ducky, 2 original IBM model Ms, and such. I am not a razer fanboy as I have crap talked them for years before this but was impressed by this new stuff. Before this keyboard I would be back to recommending other keyboards. Just found a switch I liked.
I don't know the other dude with the love thread and I think I made this before him but not sure. My first posts here were regarding model Ms too, I have gone all over and was surprised I would ever like anything keyboard related by this company.
I'm really sorry I caused others to make such assumptions about you and for turning your thread in a direction you would never have intended it to turn. Only thing you and I have in common is we like razer orange switches. I too am surprised and was hesitant to try it because of all the criticisms against Kailhs being naturally inferior as they are chinese made not german.
Stick around and you'll see that elitekeyboards is the major benefactor of the hhkb pro 2 lovefest, the 'better-than-a-filco' KUL-es87, and the topre realforces. They make out they are elite forms of rubber domes. And they have a hierarchy for those who have them depending on how much they spent on them. The in-group i guess including certain viral posters seem to love them some cup rubber like it makes their titties hard when they touch them. Go check out the KUL thread and see the review there and how it has suddenly been raised above the tried and true filco by some of these guys. The hype is well organized. They don't apply the same measure to Razer though. It's all "it might be good, but how do I know it won't break down?". Synapse I do agree is not so good and shouldn't be installed unless you want to. If keys start misbehaving the simple fix is to uninstall it. But, somehow they just know the KUL will outperform, outlast and offer a better keyboarding experience for noobs looking to get the next cool best keyboard cos it just feels so amazing - BETTER THAN A FILCO!
Well, I feel the same way about the razor orange switches. They feel so good, and like you, I've tried everything so why not maybe proclaim them as better than cherry mx? They are not the old Kailh - they are new and improved by Razer after all. BTW is razer sold at elitekeyboards?
did razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
No, wtf?
I have owned like 4 different coolermaster keyboards and I think the only thing razer I own is this keyboard and a old mousepad of theirs. Past 4 keyboards coolermaster, before that corsair , a ducky, 2 original IBM model Ms, and such. I am not a razer fanboy as I have crap talked them for years before this but was impressed by this new stuff. Before this keyboard I would be back to recommending other keyboards. Just found a switch I liked.
I don't know the other dude with the love thread and I think I made this before him but not sure. My first posts here were regarding model Ms too, I have gone all over and was surprised I would ever like anything keyboard related by this company.
I'm really sorry I caused others to make such assumptions about you and for turning your thread in a direction you would never have intended it to turn. Only thing you and I have in common is we like razer orange switches. I too am surprised and was hesitant to try it because of all the criticisms against Kailhs being naturally inferior as they are chinese made not german.
Stick around and you'll see that elitekeyboards is the major benefactor of the hhkb pro 2 lovefest, the 'better-than-a-filco' KUL-es87, and the topre realforces. They make out they are elite forms of rubber domes. And they have a hierarchy for those who have them depending on how much they spent on them. The in-group i guess including certain viral posters seem to love them some cup rubber like it makes their titties hard when they touch them. Go check out the KUL thread and see the review there and how it has suddenly been raised above the tried and true filco by some of these guys. The hype is well organized. They don't apply the same measure to Razer though. It's all "it might be good, but how do I know it won't break down?". Synapse I do agree is not so good and shouldn't be installed unless you want to. If keys start misbehaving the simple fix is to uninstall it. But, somehow they just know the KUL will outperform, outlast and offer a better keyboarding experience for noobs looking to get the next cool best keyboard cos it just feels so amazing - BETTER THAN A FILCO!
Well, I feel the same way about the razor orange switches. They feel so good, and like you, I've tried everything so why not maybe proclaim them as better than cherry mx? They are not the old Kailh - they are new and improved by Razer after all. BTW is razer sold at elitekeyboards?
The problem is that the idea of modern mechanical keyboards is fairly new to the "general public" so as a result reviews will be skewed because most people aren't aware of better alternatives. They compare their experience to their EVERYDAY experience of rubber domes. So of course the mech company that spent the most money on being visible to the market will be the same company that has the most positive reviews.[/b][/size]
I honestly don't feel like responding to all of this, but I will say that you can't rate a half a star or 0 stars, the median is 3, not 2.5.
A bit irrelevant considering Amazon can and does tally a very precise median based on the collective vote, hence it's possible for the overall product rating to be 2.5 or any number in-between. Thus, the collective median rating between 1 and 5 would be 2.5.My comment about it not being limited to GHers was to point out that this isn't an elitist opinion, those of us that have an issue with Razer on GH are joined by people who know little to nothing about Mechanical Keyboards at all.
I'm not sure that anyone you were replying to was leveling the accusation that it was some sort of elitist opinion. My comment was simply to point out that if buyer ratings are any indication, most Blackwidow reviewers on Amazon are apparently satisfied. What I wasn't doing was implying that your experience is irrelevant.
I honestly don't feel like responding to all of this, but I will say that you can't rate a half a star or 0 stars, the median is 3, not 2.5.
A bit irrelevant considering Amazon can and does tally a very precise median based on the collective vote, hence it's possible for the overall product rating to be 2.5 or any number in-between. Thus, the collective median rating between 1 and 5 would be 2.5.My comment about it not being limited to GHers was to point out that this isn't an elitist opinion, those of us that have an issue with Razer on GH are joined by people who know little to nothing about Mechanical Keyboards at all.
I'm not sure that anyone you were replying to was leveling the accusation that it was some sort of elitist opinion. My comment was simply to point out that if buyer ratings are any indication, most Blackwidow reviewers on Amazon are apparently satisfied. What I wasn't doing was implying that your experience is irrelevant.
No, the median is 3. The median has to be on the scale you are given. Since 2.5 is not an option, it cannot be the median. A median is the number in the middle of a set. The arithmetic mean, or average, of the scale is also 3. [(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/5] = 3.
And yes, if you scroll back, you can see that I am accused of being financially bound to having a negative outlook and that GHers are being snobs when it comes to Razer. I was pointing out that we aren't the only ones that have had a negative experience, but I've certainly said repeatedly I don't think it's the majority of people. Some products have better overall reviews than others, and the BlackWidow is one of them, but still not immune to the experiences I've had with their other products by any means.
The in-group i guess including certain viral posters seem to love them some cup rubber like it makes their titties hard when they touch them.
The in-group i guess including certain viral posters seem to love them some cup rubber like it makes their titties hard when they touch them.
best post in this thread so far :))
No, the median is 3. The median has to be on the scale you are given. Since 2.5 is not an option, it cannot be the median. A median is the number in the middle of a set. The arithmetic mean, or average, of the scale is also 3. [(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/5] = 3.
And yes, if you scroll back, you can see that I am accused of being financially bound to having a negative outlook and that GHers are being snobs when it comes to Razer.
Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.
I was pointing out that we aren't the only ones that have had a negative experience, but I've certainly said repeatedly I don't think it's the majority of people. Some products have better overall reviews than others, and the BlackWidow is one of them, but still not immune to the experiences I've had with their other products by any means.
I also don't understand what people are arguing about, since they seem to be talking about different things all together..+1
Show Image(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-907hS44N2tM/UBhkqanWu4I/AAAAAAAABdA/Q4-L-lav5CA/IMG_2637.JPG?imgmax=2500)Show Image(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/damutation/Razer%20Blackwidow%20Review/RazerBlackwidowUltimateReview-110.jpg)
Guess which one is Razer Blackwidow's.
Who cares about reviews?
It's not the number/statistics of reviews that we look at. We look at the HARD evidence posted in reviews. Keycap thickness. PCB quality. Soldering quality. We don't care about the NUMBER of complaints; we care about what is CAUSING them.Who cares about reviews?
Keyboard enthusiasts, which is obviously why so many are posted on this site.
It's not the number/statistics of reviews that we look at. We look at the HARD evidence posted in reviews. Keycap thickness. PCB quality. Soldering quality. We don't care about the NUMBER of complaints; we care about what is CAUSING them.Who cares about reviews?
Keyboard enthusiasts, which is obviously why so many are posted on this site.
No, the median is 3. The median has to be on the scale you are given. Since 2.5 is not an option, it cannot be the median. A median is the number in the middle of a set. The arithmetic mean, or average, of the scale is also 3. [(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/5] = 3.
However, you keep referring to individual rather than the collective median rating. The only way you can achieve a consensus is by evaluating a lot of opinions in aggregate, as positive or negative opinions are worthless on their own. Amazon's aggregate (ie. not individual) voting average has a median of 2.5. Want an example (http://www.amazon.com/OISOUND-AIR-2-4GHz-Wireless-Keyboard/product-reviews/B00KTFAQDM/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1)?
No, the median is 3. The median has to be on the scale you are given. Since 2.5 is not an option, it cannot be the median. A median is the number in the middle of a set. The arithmetic mean, or average, of the scale is also 3. [(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/5] = 3.
However, you keep referring to individual rather than the collective median rating. The only way you can achieve a consensus is by evaluating a lot of opinions in aggregate, as positive or negative opinions are worthless on their own. Amazon's aggregate (ie. not individual) voting average has a median of 2.5. Want an example (http://www.amazon.com/OISOUND-AIR-2-4GHz-Wireless-Keyboard/product-reviews/B00KTFAQDM/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1)?
That's a mean. You can't have a median with a sample size of two.
Also I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote me out of context.
My earlier post in this thread clearly shows that I do recognize that people care about reviews. I do recognize that people, especially GHers care about reviews. That's one of the reasons why I'm the only person who's topic has been stickied in the Review forum. HOWEVER, there are certain assumptions you make when you base your opinion solely on numbers of reviews.
-People who are more likely to write reviews may come from a certain audience and do not accurately reflect the opinions of owners
-We can observe the numbers of owners that write reviews, but the number of owners who do NOT write reviews outweigh that vastly and are unobserved [proven by sales figures vs. review numbers]
THUS
-We cannot assume that a consensus of online reviews represents a consensus of product owners
My point is that I think we should be focusing on the board itself rather than what people's opinion are on it. We can clearly observe physical objects like PCB thickness and in-factory soldering, and I think that discussion would yield a more productive argument in researching how the Black Widow stacks against other boards in its price range.
I'm not here to argue with anyone, I just think that if you want to REALLY evaluate a board, you shouldn't be doing so based on the false notion that online reviews of a product represent the consensus of all owners of that product. We should be looking at physical evidence and physically comparing it with its competition.
That's a mean. You can't have a median with a sample size of two.
That's a mean. You can't have a median with a sample size of two.
Lol. Math skillz.
It doesn't represent a consensus of all product owners, but if we consider Amazon and Newegg a microcosm of the buying public, it represents a consensus based on the reviews of over 230 people, which is a far larger sample size for a single product than what's afforded on this forum. Further, those reviews are given more weight when corroborated by tech sites that review products professionally.
Not all users are particularly concerned about PCB thickness or in-factory soldering. Some are primarily concerned with aesthetics and/or feel, and the software (if any) that accompanies it. Obviously no one wants a board that's unreliable, but if most people aren't having a problem, in-factory soldering would probably be a non-issue for them, even if it stands to reason that shoddy soldering would yield a keyboard with a higher defect rate.
Like I said, I never claimed online reviews are an exhaustive consensus, but merely that it's often a decent enough representative sample, especially when combined with reviews from other reputable sources.My point is that it is NOT a representative sample, because it is not a RANDOM sample. These are people who CHOOSE or are somehow compelled to do reviews, thus coming from a subset audience of the general public.
It doesn't represent a consensus of all product owners, but if we consider Amazon and Newegg a microcosm of the buying public, it represents a consensus based on the reviews of over 230 people, which is a far larger sample size for a single product than what's afforded on this forum. Further, those reviews are given more weight when corroborated by tech sites that review products professionally.
You are missing my point. My point is that the reviewing public != buying public THUS we cannot put too much weight on reviews, microcosms or not. What we CAN put weight on are physical observables which can lead to a fair comparison to competing products.
Not all users are particularly concerned about PCB thickness or in-factory soldering. Some are primarily concerned with aesthetics and/or feel, and the software (if any) that accompanies it. Obviously no one wants a board that's unreliable, but if most people aren't having a problem, in-factory soldering would probably be a non-issue for them, even if it stands to reason that shoddy soldering would yield a keyboard with a higher defect rate.
Whether a product is dependable or not is not a matter of what users care about; that is another thing entirely. It is a matter of what the board actually is. It is a matter of how build quality like in-factory soldering can be clues to failure rates. I think you misunderstand my point, we need to take people OUT of the equation and focus on the actual product. We can find observable clues in the factory processes of Razer within their products themselves rather than reading opinion on the internet. A reputable review is a review that shows undisputed physical evidence of a stance [debounce rates, pixel walk, frequency range etc.]
Like I said, I never claimed online reviews are an exhaustive consensus, but merely that it's often a decent enough representative sample, especially when combined with reviews from other reputable sources.My point is that it is NOT a representative sample, because it is not a RANDOM sample. These are people who CHOOSE or are somehow compelled to do reviews, thus coming from a subset audience of the general public.
Do scientists abduct participants for research studies or do people choose to participate? Unlike some research studies, Amazon doesn't pay participants to write reviews.Choosing to participate is fine, as long as they don't know what factors are being studied. Research studies often incorporate blind experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment) like placebo effect etc. Blind experiments help reduce bias. Product reviews are not blind experiments because people CHOOSE to evaluate a certain product and already know what is in question.
That's a mean. You can't have a median with a sample size of two.
Oh, I don't know. According to this median (http://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/mean-median-mode.php) calculator: (1+4)/2 = 2.5
If you prefer a larger sample size (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013TM0Z0/ref=s9_ri_gw_g263_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1DGQ5R97ERGCXS4QS03H&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1773648602&pf_rd_i=507846), though.
I'm sorry but I think we are dealing with apples and oranges here. You keep going back to how things feel and how keyboards make people happy. I am only talking about the failure rates of the black widow.
Do scientists abduct participants for research studies or do people choose to participate? Unlike some research studies, Amazon doesn't pay participants to write reviews.Choosing to participate is fine, as long as they don't know what factors are being studied. Research studies often incorporate blind experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment) like placebo effect etc. Blind experiments help reduce bias. Product reviews are not blind experiments because people CHOOSE to evaluate a certain product and already know what is in question.
That's a mean. You can't have a median with a sample size of two.
Oh, I don't know. According to this median (http://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/mean-median-mode.php) calculator: (1+4)/2 = 2.5
Okay, perhaps I should have chosen my words better.
You can't have a meaningful median with a sample size of two. Because it becomes the same as the mean and loses the value of what makes median different from mean.If you prefer a larger sample size (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013TM0Z0/ref=s9_ri_gw_g263_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1DGQ5R97ERGCXS4QS03H&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1773648602&pf_rd_i=507846), though.
This is indeed a larger sample size, but once again that's the mean score, not median. I feel silly for continuing to discuss this tangential point, and I'm sorry for that, but I just want to clarify this point.
Was the basis for this thread (and my original reply) related solely to failure rates or other, more subjective factors, such as key feel, for example?My post regarding the picture of the controller PCB from the black widow was meant to serve as observable possible evidence for failure rates.
As if contradictory conclusions from various blind and double blind studies don't exist.
For starters, I never claimed Amazon reviews were based on a scientific standard. Obviously they're not, however when corroborated by reviews from various other reputable sources, one doesn't necessarily need a double blind study, nor would a double blind study guarantee satisfaction. Secondly, do you consider the reviews on this forum to be a proper representative sample? How many members here seem to have a problem with the fact that reviewers on this forum don't invoke blind or double blind studies when reviewing keyboards, or that they often relate primarily experiential data?
No, the median is 3. The median has to be on the scale you are given. Since 2.5 is not an option, it cannot be the median. A median is the number in the middle of a set. The arithmetic mean, or average, of the scale is also 3. [(1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)/5] = 3.
However, you keep referring to individual rather than the collective median rating. The only way you can achieve a consensus is by evaluating a lot of opinions in aggregate, as positive or negative opinions are worthless on their own. Amazon's aggregate (ie. not individual) voting average has a median of 2.5. Want an example (http://www.amazon.com/OISOUND-AIR-2-4GHz-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B00KTFAQDM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)?And yes, if you scroll back, you can see that I am accused of being financially bound to having a negative outlook and that GHers are being snobs when it comes to Razer.
What I saw was a disagreement over whether problems with some products were due to user error or quality control on Razer's part:Hmm, I've had my Razer BWU, Kraken headset, and deathadder for like a year with heavy use. Not a single issue with any of it.. And the stuff takes a beating... Maybe I'm just lucky??
Might be luck or maybe you just don't use your gear heavily enough? Idk.
When I got my Kraken, I noticed the mic literally sucked ass. I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well. I was fed up with my ****ty Razer gear, and thus I started Googling, found GH and joined to find better peripherals. :)
I ALWAYS ignore mic reviews... 99.99% of the time its something wrong with your rig. I've had numerous headsets and EVERY SINGLE ONE had complaints about the mic by people. I have NEVER, except on one $4 headset, had an issue with a mic being crappy. This Kraken mic sounds perfect. I had a deathadder die too... after spilling something on it.
And the fact that you've killed a dozen different peripherals just boggles my mind... They may have a bad egg or two, but something else is/was going on there.
Nope, you're wrong. I've had over 10 other microphones - no issues... only with the Kraken. I said " I've gone through about 5 deathadders as they all started having problems after around 6-8 months each. I've had 3 blackwidows and they all suffered from various issues as well." - I didn't say I "killed" any of them. Do you not know how to read?
"Various issues" 100% not caused by anything else besides bad quality? Doubt it.
You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers.I was pointing out that we aren't the only ones that have had a negative experience, but I've certainly said repeatedly I don't think it's the majority of people. Some products have better overall reviews than others, and the BlackWidow is one of them, but still not immune to the experiences I've had with their other products by any means.
If you read my original reply, I wasn't being all-inclusive. I singled out the Blackwidow specifically. I haven't spent much time looking at reviews for their other products.
Was the basis for this thread (and my original reply) related solely to failure rates or other, more subjective factors, such as key feel, for example?My post regarding the picture of the controller PCB from the black widow was meant to serve as observable possible evidence for failure rates.
Amazon reviews or not, a popular discussion with Razer products is its failure rate. You are the one who keeps evaluating keyboards as "good" or "bad". I never participated in that discussion. I am concerned solely with DEPENDABILITY.
"Whether a product is dependable or not is not a matter of what users care about; that is another thing entirely"
^ You keep going into that "another thing entirely" category.
No I do not consider the reviews on this forum to be a proper representative sample, but that does not matter to me because I do not base my buying decisions on the sum, mean or median or meaningful median of reviews, but rather what is actually inside the review.
As I have stated before, a reputable review will definitely cite quantifiable data. For someone who is so cautious about being accused of exhaustive claims, you make many assumptions that my statements are also exhaustive.
As I have stated before, a reputable review will definitely cite quantifiable data. For someone who is so cautious about being accused of exhaustive claims, you make many assumptions that my statements are also exhaustive.Such as?
I also don't understand what people are arguing about, since they seem to be talking about different things all together..+1
I tried to join in the conversation but I think this is out of our hands now...We're getting into statistics lol for what?
Who cares about reviews? Just take a take a picture and look at the quality of the PCB that the Black Widow uses and it's done.Show Image(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-907hS44N2tM/UBhkqanWu4I/AAAAAAAABdA/Q4-L-lav5CA/IMG_2637.JPG?imgmax=2500)Show Image(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/damutation/Razer%20Blackwidow%20Review/RazerBlackwidowUltimateReview-110.jpg)
Guess which one is Razer Blackwidow's.
No, that is quoted from 2012 lolol. There is a good chance their components have changed. From what I've observed the 2013/14 Deathadders compared to older versions there were vast improvements.
To clarify even further, here are the three main points I wanted to make during this discussion:
- Gathering review data solely from quantity of x/5-star-reviews is not very useful data in the first place
The often-associated failure rate of the black widow can be evidenced by pictures of its PCB
Things you have accused me of that are not true:
-I don't care about reviews
-I limit myself to objectivity
-I want to invoke scientific standards onto all reviews
As I have stated before, a reputable review will definitely cite quantifiable data. For someone who is so cautious about being accused of exhaustive claims, you make many assumptions that my statements are also exhaustive.Such as?
"Keyboard enthusiasts, which is obviously why so many are posted on this site."
- You inform me of this, which is logically equivalent to stating that I am somehow unaware or in denial of it.
"Empirical data has its place, but if empirical data is all that mattered..."
- I never said that empirical data is all that mattered, yet you go on typing paragraphs arguing against a statement I have never made.
"As if contradictory conclusions from various blind and double blind studies don't exist."
- I never disagreed with that statement or said that blind experiments were perfect, but you somehow find more points to argue with me on more statements that I have never made.
"For starters, I never claimed Amazon reviews were based on a scientific standard. "
- I never said accused you of it either, lol. I am simply saying you cannot base theories on quantities of amazon reviews without acknowledging the problems associated with that.
Somehow you have found all kinds of ways to argue with me against points that I have never made.
It stands to reason it could be a contributing factor, but if it were exceedingly high, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in a vast number of reviews, not just on Amazon, but YouTube, tech sites, etc.? From what I can see, most of the people who are complaining seem to be in the minority.
"To put it another way, I never claimed Amazon reviews were without fault. I never claimed they were perfect. In effect, I never claimed they conformed to any sort of scientific standard. Apparently you were under the impression I thought Amazon reviews didn't have problems, which I assume is why you invoked the suggestion that they don't rise to the level of blind studies. Why else?"
Yes, because that's what I was referring to regarding my original sentiments related to reviews which you replied to out of context. My original comment regarding Amazon reviews was directed at cherpalla, not you. In terms of reliability and Amazon reviews though, anyone can write a review at any time and they don't even have to have purchased the product from Amazon. Thus, if people were having major reliability issues, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in said reviews?
How much weight do you put on empirical vs. subjective / experiential data? Your comments seem to indicate that you're primarily focused on empirical data.Good job ignoring your entire argument against nobody, then proceeding to ask leading questions that will get us nowhere. Who cares where I put weight on what, that's not what I'm questioning. That's not part of the topic. I'm questioning the idea of using the the sum/median/mean of the reviews as an assessment tool.
You injected the notion that blind studies help reduce bias. I was pointing out that they're not necessarily reliable. That's it and that's all.You are pointing out the obvious for no reason. I'm not even sure of the purpose of your reply. Studies are never "necessarily reliable". That's why they are studies. But blind studies can help reduce bias and can make something more likely to be reliable.
To put it another way, I never claimed Amazon reviews were without fault. I never claimed they were perfect. In effect, I never claimed they conformed to any sort of scientific standard. Apparently you were under the impression I thought Amazon reviews didn't have problems, which I assume is why you invoked the suggestion that they don't rise to the level of blind studies. Why else?I am under the impression that you fail to grasp the fallacies that you assume when you use the quantity of reviews as an assessment tool. I have quoted and outlined this in reply #150 to this topic. You have already indirectly admitted that you do not understand why # of reviews can not be reliable.
+1
Yes, because that's what I was referring to regarding my original sentiments related to reviews which you replied to out of context. My original comment regarding Amazon reviews was directed at cherpalla, not you. In terms of reliability and Amazon reviews though, anyone can write a review at any time and they don't even have to have purchased the product from Amazon. Thus, if people were having major reliability issues, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in said reviews?
It is reflected in said reviews. Did you even read them? Plenty of the 4+ star reviews also talk about product failure and on-arrival defects.
"Obviously it's useful for those interested in what others think, otherwise no one would bother to read or write those reviews. That it's not useful for you is a personal preference and I can respect that."
-I am talking about quantity of reviews, not the reviews themselves. The usefulness of the reviews is not solely dependent on the quantity of reviews. Worst case scenario, you can have a million reviews and not learn anything from them.
"It stands to reason it could be a contributing factor, but if it were exceedingly high, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in a vast number of reviews, not just on Amazon, but YouTube, tech sites, etc.? From what I can see, most of the people who are complaining seem to be in the minority."
-I'm not even talking about minorities or majorities. I have already made my point clear that the people who write reviews do not necessarily nor accurately represent the people who have bought the product. They are different statistical pools. That would be a good reason.
-Example: Product recalls. The Mazda RX-8 underwent recalls because of improperly installed seals that would result in engine failure. However, there are no product reviews that show this because the people who did reviews did so within a short amount of time of owning it. The fact that most reviews are time-sensitive causes reviews to be farther from an actual representation of product experience.
-Even if you don't accept that, there are companies that exist where they require their employees to write positive reviews on their own products. Another good reason.That wouldn't explain the numerous YouTube videos and countless tech reviews extolling Blackwidows.
Hell, when I posted that picture I'm was not even talking about the flaws of counting reviews, I was simply showing the product and making a hypothesis. Again you are arguing against points I have never made, while at the same time ignoring my prior arguments.
""Who cares about reviews? Just take a take a picture and look at the quality of the PCB that the Black Widow uses and it's done."?
-This does not mean I do not care about reviews, I just feel that there may be more important issues at hand then the reviews themselves. Like the actual product.
-"insert my objective quotes"
Simply because I cite objectivity is NOT the same as limiting myself to it. I am simply bringing these facts into attention because I feel that they are important. Of course there non-quantifiable aspects of a review; I never refuted that fact, nor did I ever deny it. Again you are arguing points I have never made.
"Comments such as the aforementioned tend to imply that your primary focus is on data that is quantifiable / empirical. I never claimed that you wanted to invoke a scientific standard, however. I did state that I never claimed Amazon reviews were based on some sort of scientific standard, and I also asked how many members here invoke double blind studies in their reviews, that is since you called the sampling pool of Amazon's reviews into question."
-Invoking a blind study inside a geekhack review has nothing to do with citing pools of amazon reviews. I'm not sure how your question pertains to anything regarding the Black Widow.
Yes, because that's what I was referring to regarding my original sentiments related to reviews which you replied to out of context. My original comment regarding Amazon reviews was directed at cherpalla, not you. In terms of reliability and Amazon reviews though, anyone can write a review at any time and they don't even have to have purchased the product from Amazon. Thus, if people were having major reliability issues, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in said reviews?
It is reflected in said reviews. Did you even read them? Plenty of the 4+ star reviews also talk about product failure and on-arrival defects.
Yes, because that's what I was referring to regarding my original sentiments related to reviews which you replied to out of context. My original comment regarding Amazon reviews was directed at cherpalla, not you. In terms of reliability and Amazon reviews though, anyone can write a review at any time and they don't even have to have purchased the product from Amazon. Thus, if people were having major reliability issues, what reason would I have to believe it wouldn't be reflected in said reviews?
It is reflected in said reviews. Did you even read them? Plenty of the 4+ star reviews also talk about product failure and on-arrival defects.
Most of them discuss things like a sticky key or USB port sensitivity, yet claim that they love the keyboard otherwise, hence the 4 star rating. That said, have you perused the 427 five star ratings of the Blackwidow Ultimate? (http://www.amazon.com/Razer-BlackWidow-Ultimate-Mechanical-Keyboard/product-reviews/B008U5ZNIG/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending), which represent the vast majority of buyers?
How much weight do you put on empirical vs. subjective / experiential data? Your comments seem to indicate that you're primarily focused on empirical data.Good job ignoring your entire argument against nobody, then proceeding to ask leading questions that will get us nowhere. Who cares where I put weight on what, that's not what I'm questioning. That's not part of the topic. I'm questioning the idea of using the the sum/median/mean of the reviews as an assessment tool.
You injected the notion that blind studies help reduce bias. I was pointing out that they're not necessarily reliable. That's it and that's all.You are pointing out the obvious for no reason. I'm not even sure of the purpose of your reply. Studies are never "necessarily reliable". That's why they are studies. But blind studies can help reduce bias and can make something more likely to be reliable.
To put it another way, I never claimed Amazon reviews were without fault. I never claimed they were perfect. In effect, I never claimed they conformed to any sort of scientific standard. Apparently you were under the impression I thought Amazon reviews didn't have problems, which I assume is why you invoked the suggestion that they don't rise to the level of blind studies. Why else?I am under the impression that you fail to grasp the fallacies that you assume when you use the quantity of reviews as an assessment tool. I have quoted and outlined this in reply #150 to this topic. You have already indirectly admitted that you do not understand why # of reviews can not be reliable.
The first 5 star review I see other than "I love it" on the 2013 model you linked (we were discussing the 2014 model, not sure why you would link the one without the proprietary switches???)
But again, I find this data irrelevant to our discussion since we are specifically discussing the newest model with their own Cherry MX dupes.
In general, from what I've observed in customer service, is that customers will only subtract 1 star for various defects we've described, and will not subtract any more than that (and may possibly add that star back) if customer support handles the defect quickly and with great regard to the customer. I consider 4 stars and below on Amazon to be something I won't buy. There are way too many 4.5+ star products that indicate I'll have better luck in getting something that isn't going to fall apart on me.
I never said it's entirely dependent on the quantity. My original point was related to buyer satisfaction in relation to ratings:
If buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who bought a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Well, you've stated that a popular discussion with Razer products is its failure rate. Do those who hold such discussions accurately represent the people who've purchased a Blackwidow, for example?I never said they did and that question is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with your faulty process of product assessment.
Well, anyone who owns a Blackwidow can write a review on Amazon at any time, regardless whether they purchased the keyboard through Amazon or not. You or anyone else who has an axe to grind with that keyboard has the option of not only updating their review at some later date, but writing a new one. Is there such an outlet for Mazda RX-8 owners other than forums?There are plenty of user-submitted car reviews on youtube and automotive sites other than forums. Not sure why that is so far-fetched. Sorry that you can't find them on Amazon :[
That wouldn't explain the numerous YouTube videos and countless tech reviews extolling Blackwidows.Lack of exhaustive explanation does not refute my statement, the argument still stands.
It would be nice if you'd quote me rather than making claims without proper reference.Or you could just go back and read the next two posts that you directed to me after I posted that picture. But since you asked nicely here you go:
Not all keyboard enthusiasts value the same qualities equally. Further, the ratings I originally posted were simply to show that the average consumer is generally satisfied with Razer's Blackwidow(which pertains to the topic of the thread). As such, the reviews simply represent a consensus, and if the mean result ordains that a product is "good", it simply presents a likelihood proposition to the next consumer that they will have a similar opinion or experience with it. Whether you or anyone else considers a keyboard (such as the BW) bad because it doesn't retain attributes you associate with a quality keyboard can be a bit subjective, in my opinion.^^^^^^^^
Why not simply explain that rather than make statements that strongly imply something else?Idk how that implies something else. I want to focus on the product. Thus I post an up-close picture of the product.
Based on your previous comments, what reason would anyone have to believe that you weren't empirically oriented and put relatively little to no emphasis on subjective data? There's a difference between constructing straw men and making a reasonable assumption based on what has (and has not) been stated.
The point was simple. You called the sampling pool of Amazon's reviews into question. Would you do the same for reviews on this site based on the same grounds(ie. they don't accurately represent the people who've purchased the product)?More ad hominem arguments. Has nothing to do with the topic.
More ad hominem, has nothing to do with original topic.
You asserted that I made a claim regarding the emphasis you put on quantifiable data, yet when asked you refuse to clarify. Okay.
Did you bother to read the full reply with quoted text or did you simply read my portion and assume it was pointless? If you can't understand what I was responding to and why, frankly, I don't know what to tell you. It's pointless to keep explaining myself when you refuse to follow the context of the reply.It was pointless. Studies are not necessarily reliable. If they were they would be laws of physics and not studies. But why do we need to know this obvious piece of information? Not sure, that's on you.
Did you not read my reference to corroborating evidence via other reputable sources as a source of confirmation?I did read it. You are avoiding my argument. Amazon reviews, tech site reviews, youtube reviews, infinitely _reputable_ reviews. It doesn't matter, my argument still stands. Drawing general conclusions from "aggregates" of ratings in reviews is still a risky business.
The first 5 star review I see other than "I love it" on the 2013 model you linked (we were discussing the 2014 model, not sure why you would link the one without the proprietary switches???)
So you were you referring to the 2014 model when you replied with:
"You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers."But again, I find this data irrelevant to our discussion since we are specifically discussing the newest model with their own Cherry MX dupes.
My original comment was in reference to the above, and you weren't specifically referencing the latest Blackwidow, nor was I.In general, from what I've observed in customer service, is that customers will only subtract 1 star for various defects we've described, and will not subtract any more than that (and may possibly add that star back) if customer support handles the defect quickly and with great regard to the customer. I consider 4 stars and below on Amazon to be something I won't buy. There are way too many 4.5+ star products that indicate I'll have better luck in getting something that isn't going to fall apart on me.
Well, that's your personal preference and I can respect that. Whether you would buy it or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. The original point is that 4 out of 5 stars would typically represent a satisfied customer.
I never said it's entirely dependent on the quantity. My original point was related to buyer satisfaction in relation to ratings:
If buyer ratings are any indication, it would seem the majority of those who bought a Blackwidow from a site like Amazon, for example, are fairly satisfied.
Buyer ratings being an indication involve observing the quantity of interviews and drawing an indication from them. They depend on quantity, i.e. the median that you tried to draw from two reviews earlier. Not sure how else to explain that to you.
Well, you've stated that a popular discussion with Razer products is its failure rate. Do those who hold such discussions accurately represent the people who've purchased a Blackwidow, for example?I never said they did and that question is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with your faulty process of product assessment.
Well, anyone who owns a Blackwidow can write a review on Amazon at any time, regardless whether they purchased the keyboard through Amazon or not. You or anyone else who has an axe to grind with that keyboard has the option of not only updating their review at some later date, but writing a new one. Is there such an outlet for Mazda RX-8 owners other than forums?There are plenty of user-submitted car reviews on youtube and automotive sites other than forums. Not sure why that is so far-fetched. Sorry that you can't find them on Amazon
That wouldn't explain the numerous YouTube videos and countless tech reviews extolling Blackwidows.Lack of exhaustive explanation does not refute my statement, the argument still stands.
Why not simply explain that rather than make statements that strongly imply something else?Idk how that implies something else. I want to focus on the product. Thus I post an up-close picture of the product.
Based on your previous comments, what reason would anyone have to believe that you weren't empirically oriented and put relatively little to no emphasis on subjective data? There's a difference between constructing straw men and making a reasonable assumption based on what has (and has not) been stated.
All ad hominem non-productive conversation here. Why do you have to classify someone as emperically-oriented or subjectively-oriented? It's neither here nor there, but since you want to know so much, I believe in a balance of the two. My subtext has been "Aestheticist" for as long as I can remember, that might be a good clue for any anti-empirical propaganda.
But regardless of my epistemological-orientation, my argument still stands.
The point was simple. You called the sampling pool of Amazon's reviews into question. Would you do the same for reviews on this site based on the same grounds(ie. they don't accurately represent the people who've purchased the product)?More ad hominem arguments. Has nothing to do with the topic.
You asserted that I made a claim regarding the emphasis you put on quantifiable data, yet when asked you refuse to clarify. Okay.More ad hominem, has nothing to do with original topic.
Probably because you originally implied it.Did you bother to read the full reply with quoted text or did you simply read my portion and assume it was pointless? If you can't understand what I was responding to and why, frankly, I don't know what to tell you. It's pointless to keep explaining myself when you refuse to follow the context of the reply.It was pointless. Studies are not necessarily reliable. If they were they would be laws of physics and not studies. But why do we need to know this obvious piece of information? Not sure, that's on you.
Blind studies are risky business too (depending on whose funding them) but you appeal to those, as well. In my opinion, most people aren't expecting to reach the level of certainty you seem to imply is necessary in order to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.Did you not read my reference to corroborating evidence via other reputable sources as a source of confirmation?I did read it. You are avoiding my argument. Amazon reviews, tech site reviews, youtube reviews, infinitely _reputable_ reviews. It doesn't matter, my argument still stands. Drawing general conclusions from "aggregates" of ratings in reviews is still a risky business.
The first 5 star review I see other than "I love it" on the 2013 model you linked (we were discussing the 2014 model, not sure why you would link the one without the proprietary switches???)
So you were you referring to the 2014 model when you replied with:
"You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers."But again, I find this data irrelevant to our discussion since we are specifically discussing the newest model with their own Cherry MX dupes.
My original comment was in reference to the above, and you weren't specifically referencing the latest Blackwidow, nor was I.In general, from what I've observed in customer service, is that customers will only subtract 1 star for various defects we've described, and will not subtract any more than that (and may possibly add that star back) if customer support handles the defect quickly and with great regard to the customer. I consider 4 stars and below on Amazon to be something I won't buy. There are way too many 4.5+ star products that indicate I'll have better luck in getting something that isn't going to fall apart on me.
Well, that's your personal preference and I can respect that. Whether you would buy it or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. The original point is that 4 out of 5 stars would typically represent a satisfied customer.
1. My comment was about why I don't choose to try new Razer products in general, including the new BW, and defending that I don't have any unfair bias and that I wasn't lying about my experience by showing that similar experiences are not limited to me nor GHers.
2. Sure, but not an overwhelmingly satisfied customer, which would be 4.5-5. Which is what I said to begin with. As I said before, it would need to be a 4.5 or greater to catch my attention, mostly because it is the general public, but also because I'm not looking for "Above Average" products that cost hundreds of dollars.
The first 5 star review I see other than "I love it" on the 2013 model you linked (we were discussing the 2014 model, not sure why you would link the one without the proprietary switches???)
So you were you referring to the 2014 model when you replied with:
"You can check other forums for complaints about Razer products as well, it's certainly not limited to GHers."But again, I find this data irrelevant to our discussion since we are specifically discussing the newest model with their own Cherry MX dupes.
My original comment was in reference to the above, and you weren't specifically referencing the latest Blackwidow, nor was I.In general, from what I've observed in customer service, is that customers will only subtract 1 star for various defects we've described, and will not subtract any more than that (and may possibly add that star back) if customer support handles the defect quickly and with great regard to the customer. I consider 4 stars and below on Amazon to be something I won't buy. There are way too many 4.5+ star products that indicate I'll have better luck in getting something that isn't going to fall apart on me.
Well, that's your personal preference and I can respect that. Whether you would buy it or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. The original point is that 4 out of 5 stars would typically represent a satisfied customer.
1. My comment was about why I don't choose to try new Razer products in general, including the new BW, and defending that I don't have any unfair bias and that I wasn't lying about my experience by showing that similar experiences are not limited to me nor GHers.
Everyone who commented in the quote tree I originally responded to wasn't strictly referring to the new BW model exclusively, either. The Kraken and Dethadder were both being discussed.2. Sure, but not an overwhelmingly satisfied customer, which would be 4.5-5. Which is what I said to begin with. As I said before, it would need to be a 4.5 or greater to catch my attention, mostly because it is the general public, but also because I'm not looking for "Above Average" products that cost hundreds of dollars.
My original comment referenced the majority. However, I'd still consider 143 five star ratings and 35 four star ratings (178 overall ratings) overwhelming positive compared to the combined 49 one, two, and three star ratings. Absolutely.
Amazon considers their top rated products to be their best, thus I can only assume they believe those products have met with overwhelming approval. Check the list and you'll find that a number of them are rated 4 stars.
We, again, were explaining our experiences with other Razer products, defending that we did in fact have these problems as others have experienced them as well.
Referencing other products to explain the experience with the company is not the same as specifically targeting the reviews to analyze them.
Given that I just explained to you how I chose the words I did, and what I meant by them, I really could give a **** about what you feel is overwhelmingly positive. Overwhelmingly positive to me is an overwhelmingly high number of 5 star ratings, leading to a 4.5 star or greater. Do you understand that I was the one who wrote that statement, not you, therefore I know what I was saying better than you?
And then, given that I explained WHY I don't believe a 4 star review is stellar, even with mathematics and logic to explain it is simply "above average", even reading many of the reviews concerning defects which only subtracted one star, my conclusion is that the overall rating is simply "above average", and thus for me overwhelmingly is not a word I would choose to describe it. When you use the word "overwhelm" the intention is to add serious strength and power to the word it is modifying. When I said that, I should have just typed that only 62% of the reviewers on Amazon found the product to be excellent, and many of the "above average" and "excellent" scores reflect defects with the keyboard either on arrival or within one year of ownership, but wonderful customer service. Which to me, says a positive experience, but certainly not anything that would make me modify my language to infer it is fantastic and to give it a chance.
[/quote]We, again, were explaining our experiences with other Razer products, defending that we did in fact have these problems as others have experienced them as well.
You stated, "I find this data irrelevant to our discussion since we are specifically discussing the newest model with their own Cherry MX dupes".
The fact is, most of the discussion in this thread hasn't been squarely focused on the latest BW. The vast majority of it has devolved into a discussion related to reliability of Razer's products in general. So when you sit there and say you were explaining your experiences with Razer products and defending that you had problems, stating that others have experienced them as well, that's exactly what I'm doing. Why you think it's any less relevant than claiming others have experienced problems as a way to validate the claim that Razer products are unrealiable is anyone's guess. The difference is I'm simply offering supporting evidence rather than anecdotal hearsay.Referencing other products to explain the experience with the company is not the same as specifically targeting the reviews to analyze them.
What's your point? It's evidence to support a claim. That's what you do when you make a claim; you present evidence to bolster it. It's no less relevant than you stating that other Razer owners have also experienced problems in an effort to validate your claim that Razer products are prone to failure.Given that I just explained to you how I chose the words I did, and what I meant by them, I really could give a **** about what you feel is overwhelmingly positive. Overwhelmingly positive to me is an overwhelmingly high number of 5 star ratings, leading to a 4.5 star or greater. Do you understand that I was the one who wrote that statement, not you, therefore I know what I was saying better than you?
This isn't about me not understanding with what you were saying. It's about me not AGREEING with your interpretation of the star rating satisfaction levels. If you're locked into your opinion and have no interest in debating it then we can simply agree to disagree and move on. There's no need for histrionics. Seriously.And then, given that I explained WHY I don't believe a 4 star review is stellar, even with mathematics and logic to explain it is simply "above average", even reading many of the reviews concerning defects which only subtracted one star, my conclusion is that the overall rating is simply "above average", and thus for me overwhelmingly is not a word I would choose to describe it. When you use the word "overwhelm" the intention is to add serious strength and power to the word it is modifying. When I said that, I should have just typed that only 62% of the reviewers on Amazon found the product to be excellent, and many of the "above average" and "excellent" scores reflect defects with the keyboard either on arrival or within one year of ownership, but wonderful customer service. Which to me, says a positive experience, but certainly not anything that would make me modify my language to infer it is fantastic and to give it a chance.
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. I've explained why in detail, even citing the dictionary definition of the word overwhelmingly earlier in the thread as evidence to support my position. However, since you don't give a sh!t about that definition, we can simply agree to disagree.
I'm sorry that in spite of the fact that I went into great detail to explain to you why I chose the words that I did, you still don't seem to get that I was the one who wrote the comment and so I dictate what it meant. I've now explained it again.
tl;dr
"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. "
Ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)= It has to do you your irrelevant replies about me personally. It has nothing to do with my character. Sorry bro.
You are presenting ad hominem arguments because your replies consist of questions of my personal opinion, when that is neither here nor there AKA irrelevant.
You continue to harp on about how I would approach product review assessment which is also neither here nor there. My argument was about assessing the flaws in your product assessment procedure, it was never intended to provide a replacement. I just thought people should know better than to blindly look at sum/median/mean of product reviews. THATS IT.
Not many reviews here are based on "primarily subjective impressions".
"Well, I'm sorry that you don't understand how that implies something else. Do I really need to explain that when someone asks 'who cares about X?' that it generally implies that said person doesn't care about X themselves? It's a simple, common presumption."
-Once again I am taken out of context. I said 'who cares about X' and presented an alternative; the picture. The common presumption to make here is "picture > X". It would be foolish to assume "picture > X in all possible situations" and that I am literally making an exhaustive claim when I ask who cares about X.
"Ah, okay. I see. Well, so does mine then. I mean, if that's all it takes for an argument to stand, count me in."
-Again please refer to reply #150 of my post where I show exactly how your words prove my argument.
Questions about my "emphasis" on certain data is still ad-hominem because it in no way relates to the point I have already proven. It just baits me into assessing my own objectivity. What does that have to do with the problems of drawing general conclusions from aggregates of ratings? I'm glad you can recognize when I make an emphasis. Now all you have to do is recognize what my argument is and how it has been proven in reply #150 of this topic.
"Blind studies are risky business too (depending on whose funding them) but you appeal to those, as well. In my opinion, most people aren't expecting to reach the level of certainty you seem to imply is necessary in order to arrive at a reasonable conclusion."
-Again, I am not appealing to blind studies as a possible alternative to your process of product assessment. You misunderstand me more. I am using blind studies as an example of a factor that exposes a flaw in your process.
My point is that you are drawing data by only asking "how many/how much" instead of "why."
tl;dr
tl:dr yuck fou
tl;dr
tl:dr yuck fou
Wow, nice community you have here.
1. I was talking about the current BW (the OT) when saying that I didn't feel that the response to this product was "overwhelmingly positive," and thus, would not be swayed to give them another shot with the new switches. So again, getting reviews from the 2013 model is irrelevant.
2. If you wanted to argue that the current BW was worth giving a shot [...]
3. You may not agree that 1 is poor, 2 is below average, 3 is average, 4 is above average and 5 is excellent, but hey, you can't teach everyone basic logic and arithmetic.
Regardless, why would you want to change my interpretation of what is quality on the scale of 1-5?
Did you even bother to look up the Amazon star rating of the products I, and almost everyone I know, had the exact same issue with, the Naga?
I literally had 12 of them fall apart from the inside within one year. I tried 5 models. The Naga Molten edition, the Naga epic, the Naga Hex (green) and the MMOG. All of them had the same problem (falling apart from the inside), 7 of them also had right mouse button failure from daily MOBA playing. All of these are rated 4 stars on Amazon. Telling me the values of the scale in my perception are off doesn't even accomplish convincing me that the BW does not suffer from defects as often as the other products I've tried, given that according to reviewers, these items offer the same level of satisfaction, which for me, was garbage with good customer service to always replace the garbage for free.
I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish by arguing with me, since so far it just looks like you want to tell me my use of the term "overwhelmingly positive" was incorrect.
1. I was talking about the current BW (the OT) when saying that I didn't feel that the response to this product was "overwhelmingly positive," and thus, would not be swayed to give them another shot with the new switches. So again, getting reviews from the 2013 model is irrelevant.
Please quote the relevant passage(s) you're responding to rather than leave them all in a cluster above your bullet points.2. If you wanted to argue that the current BW was worth giving a shot [...]
Did I claim I was debating the current BW exclusively?3. You may not agree that 1 is poor, 2 is below average, 3 is average, 4 is above average and 5 is excellent, but hey, you can't teach everyone basic logic and arithmetic.
Feel free to demonstrate how the interpretation of Amazon's rating scale is directly correlated with logic or arithmetic.Regardless, why would you want to change my interpretation of what is quality on the scale of 1-5?
I've already stated that we can agree to disagree. Just because I don't agree with someone's opinion and give reasons for doing so doesn't automatically mean I care whether they change theirs opinion.Did you even bother to look up the Amazon star rating of the products I, and almost everyone I know, had the exact same issue with, the Naga?
I clearly stated earlier in the thread that, "I singled out the Blackwidow specifically. I haven't spent much time looking at reviews for other products", namely because I've never owned any of them.I literally had 12 of them fall apart from the inside within one year. I tried 5 models. The Naga Molten edition, the Naga epic, the Naga Hex (green) and the MMOG. All of them had the same problem (falling apart from the inside), 7 of them also had right mouse button failure from daily MOBA playing. All of these are rated 4 stars on Amazon. Telling me the values of the scale in my perception are off doesn't even accomplish convincing me that the BW does not suffer from defects as often as the other products I've tried, given that according to reviewers, these items offer the same level of satisfaction, which for me, was garbage with good customer service to always replace the garbage for free.
Just so you know, Amazon's rating for the Naga is at odds with other reputable sources. I've consistently clarified that I take other sources into account. Tom's Hardware, for instance.I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish by arguing with me, since so far it just looks like you want to tell me my use of the term "overwhelmingly positive" was incorrect.
I don't agree with your interpretation. If I wanted to argue, I wouldn't have offered to agree to disagree. What part of that doesn't make sense to you?
edit: very aggressive viral marketingdid razer decide to do a viral marketing run on GH? this coincided with a "razer blackwidow love" thread
No, wtf?
I have owned like 4 different coolermaster keyboards and I think the only thing razer I own is this keyboard and a old mousepad of theirs. Past 4 keyboards coolermaster, before that corsair , a ducky, 2 original IBM model Ms, and such. I am not a razer fanboy as I have crap talked them for years before this but was impressed by this new stuff. Before this keyboard I would be back to recommending other keyboards. Just found a switch I liked.
I don't know the other dude with the love thread and I think I made this before him but not sure. My first posts here were regarding model Ms too, I have gone all over and was surprised I would ever like anything keyboard related by this company.
I'm really sorry I caused others to make such assumptions about you and for turning your thread in a direction you would never have intended it to turn. Only thing you and I have in common is we like razer orange switches. I too am surprised and was hesitant to try it because of all the criticisms against Kailhs being naturally inferior as they are chinese made not german.
Stick around and you'll see that elitekeyboards is the major benefactor of the hhkb pro 2 lovefest, the 'better-than-a-filco' KUL-es87, the topre realforces, not to mention it is the official clack-factory outlet. They make out they are elite forms of rubber domes. And they have a hierarchy for those who have them depending on how much they spent on them. The in-group i guess including certain viral posters seem to love them some cup rubber like it makes their titties hard when they touch them. Go check out the KUL thread and see the review there and how it has suddenly been raised above the tried and true filco by some of these guys. The hype is well organized. They don't apply the same measure to Razer though. It's all "it might be good, but how do I know it won't break down?". Synapse I do agree is not so good and shouldn't be installed unless you want to. If keys start misbehaving the simple fix is to uninstall it. But, somehow they just know the KUL will outperform, outlast and offer a better keyboarding experience for noobs looking to get the next cool best keyboard cos it just feels so amazing - BETTER THAN A FILCO!
Well, I feel the same way about the razor orange switches. They feel so good, and like you, I've tried everything so why not maybe proclaim them as better than cherry mx? They are not the old Kailh - they are new and improved by Razer after all - just not sold at elitekeyboards.
tl;dr
tl:dr yuck fou
Wow, nice community you have here.
Trolling can be defined as when a member posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent or consequence of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion
Sorry to be a debbie downer but I'm no longer participating in this discussion. This has probably been the worst online experience I've ever had, and I never thought it would be on Geekhack. I have continuously felt harassed and provoked while at the same time being led off topic by user 1394602. I've reported him for trolling and I'm ready to move on with my life.
You already did argue (and technically, you still are).
Again, I don't care about your interpretation of a 5-point scale.
Where does arithmetic come into interpreting said scale? You count the number of options, find the middle and give each point in the scale a meaningful value relative to what you are rating. If 3 is the average of the scale, we can easily come to what the others should be, relative to the knowledge that the mid-point should be an average product.
I don't agree to disagree with you about Amazon's rating system, because quite frankly I think you are just trying to defend random points for no other reason than trying to win an argument.
Nothing you've presented is cohesive in the least.
"I constantly take other sources into account." This would be a good statement, except for the fact that you never really talked about the products themselves, certainly not the BW in question,
My take-away from a lot of forums is that the BW comes defected out of the box and also has issues almost as often as other products I've used. It feels more like the people who are most vocal have had problems with customer service (which I never had a problem with, they always responded quickly and replaced my peripherals almost as fast). Whether that is fewer people, the same or more, I have no idea, and since I'm sure that's data you haven't gathered either, you're of no help to prove that that is not the case.
And again, my issue with Razer is their Quality Control and Durability. A lot of people describe the BW to feel like "cheap plastic," but a superb experience when it comes to the feel of the depressing the keys in comparison to other . That doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this is better than the other **** that's fallen apart. Show me that these two items have improved with your research and I'll be glad to reconsider Razer. Until then, I still fail to see your purpose in arguing with me (earlier in this thread).If you want to consider anecdotal evidence based on various feedback from God knows where as grounds for not buying their products, I say knock yourself out. Frankly, I don't care whether you buy any or all of their products. That's your business. As far as providing evidence to demonstrate that the quality of the hardware in the BW has improved, consider this (http://imgur.com/a/C2wYh). While not the latest BW, that's a teardown of the 2013 Blackwidow Ultimate Battlefield 3 Edition. Note the quality of the soldering and PCB.
Exactly. That's _your_ impression. I already stated earlier in the thread that it's the people that have problems who are generally the most vocal(my opinion), thus it leaves the potentially lopsided impression that there are a lot of problems with Razer's keyboards in general. Whether that's actually true, I don't know, and I don't claim to know. I've maintained that if reviews are any indication, it seems most customers are fairly satisfied. Do I KNOW that most customers are satisfied? Did I ever CLAIM to know, for a fact, that most customers are satisfied? No. I'm basing the idea on the probability that if most customers weren't satisfied (ie. unhappy), I would tend to think they'd be more vocal in reviews, either on Amazon, Newegg, YouTube, tech site reviews, etc. The majority of reviews I read from the various aforementioned sources tend to reflect positively, if not extoll, the Blackwidow, both older and current models. If you don't agree with my position, then don't agree, however I've continued to defend that position for lack of convincing evidence otherwise.
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
You already did argue (and technically, you still are).
No offense, but why don't you quote relevant passages in a response?Again, I don't care about your interpretation of a 5-point scale.
If you don't care, then why do you keep debating the issue? Seriously.Where does arithmetic come into interpreting said scale? You count the number of options, find the middle and give each point in the scale a meaningful value relative to what you are rating. If 3 is the average of the scale, we can easily come to what the others should be, relative to the knowledge that the mid-point should be an average product.
Designating a meaningful value to each point on the scale is a completely subjective process. In fact, if there's any challenge in interpreting the ratings on a site like Amazon, it's due to that; reviewers aren't necessarily using the same interpretation of the points on a scale when rating a product. Thus, one persons 3 might be another persons 2. One buyers 4 may be another buyers 3.5. If you're going to debate this point, please cite a reputable source to back it up.I don't agree to disagree with you about Amazon's rating system, because quite frankly I think you are just trying to defend random points for no other reason than trying to win an argument.
You realize that makes absolutely no sense, don't you? If I was insistent on defending random points simply to win an argument, I wouldn't have suggested or offered to agree to disagree.Nothing you've presented is cohesive in the least.
I appreciate your opinion regarding my lack of cohesion in this discussion. It's been duly noted and filed at the bottom of the trash can."I constantly take other sources into account." This would be a good statement, except for the fact that you never really talked about the products themselves, certainly not the BW in question,
What you're actually admitting is that you missed my comment regarding my own Blackwidow.My take-away from a lot of forums is that the BW comes defected out of the box and also has issues almost as often as other products I've used. It feels more like the people who are most vocal have had problems with customer service (which I never had a problem with, they always responded quickly and replaced my peripherals almost as fast). Whether that is fewer people, the same or more, I have no idea, and since I'm sure that's data you haven't gathered either, you're of no help to prove that that is not the case.
Exactly. That's _your_ impression. I already stated earlier in the thread that it's the people that have problems who are generally the most vocal(my opinion), thus it leaves the potentially lopsided impression that there are a lot of problems with Razer's keyboards in general. Whether that's actually true, I don't know, and I don't claim to know. I've maintained that if reviews are any indication, it seems most customers are fairly satisfied. Do I KNOW that most customers are satisfied? Did I ever CLAIM to know, for a fact, that most customers are satisfied? No. I'm basing the idea on the probability that if most customers weren't satisfied (ie. unhappy), I would tend to think they'd be more vocal in reviews, either on Amazon, Newegg, YouTube, tech site reviews, etc. The majority of reviews I read from the various aforementioned sources tend to reflect positively, if not extoll, the Blackwidow, both older and current models. If you don't agree with my position, then don't agree, however I've continued to defend that position for lack of convincing evidence otherwise.And again, my issue with Razer is their Quality Control and Durability. A lot of people describe the BW to feel like "cheap plastic," but a superb experience when it comes to the feel of the depressing the keys in comparison to other . That doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this is better than the other **** that's fallen apart. Show me that these two items have improved with your research and I'll be glad to reconsider Razer. Until then, I still fail to see your purpose in arguing with me (earlier in this thread).If you want to consider anecdotal evidence based on various feedback from God knows where as grounds for not buying their products, I say knock yourself out. Frankly, I don't care whether you buy any or all of their products. That's your business. As far as providing evidence to demonstrate that the quality of the hardware in the BW has improved, consider this (http://imgur.com/a/C2wYh). While not the latest BW, that's a teardown of the 2013 Blackwidow Ultimate Battlefield 3 Edition. Note the quality of the soldering and PCB.
The bottom line here is that you can believe whatever makes you feel good. If you want to believe Razer products are dogsh!t, knock yourself out. Based on everything I, personally, have read from various sources, I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion. That's me, though. If you don't agree, then don't agree.
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
look good? perhaps.. but the way they basically rely on screws to tension the frame, that is bad, because with all the plastic, it warps and loosens quickly with mild use.
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
look good? perhaps.. but the way they basically rely on screws to tension the frame, that is bad, because with all the plastic, it warps and loosens quickly with mild use.
"Looks good" and "built properly" are two very different things. I never got into how well (or poor) they were made.
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
look good? perhaps.. but the way they basically rely on screws to tension the frame, that is bad, because with all the plastic, it warps and loosens quickly with mild use.
"Looks good" and "built properly" are two very different things. I never got into how well (or poor) they were made.
Translation:
Good aesthetic design, poor engineering design. You're both right! Yay!
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
look good? perhaps.. but the way they basically rely on screws to tension the frame, that is bad, because with all the plastic, it warps and loosens quickly with mild use.
"Looks good" and "built properly" are two very different things. I never got into how well (or poor) they were made.
Translation:
Good aesthetic design, poor engineering design. You're both right! Yay!
Leave it to the woman to put what we were trying to say in a single cohesive sentence :))
Yes I'm hitting on a girl who is located halfway across the planet from me because that's so realistic.
I don't agree with the poor design part. Some of their products look very good. That's it though - they just look good.
look good? perhaps.. but the way they basically rely on screws to tension the frame, that is bad, because with all the plastic, it warps and loosens quickly with mild use.
"Looks good" and "built properly" are two very different things. I never got into how well (or poor) they were made.
Translation:
Good aesthetic design, poor engineering design. You're both right! Yay!
Leave it to the woman to put what we were trying to say in a single cohesive sentence :))
Dude, you guys gotta stop hitting on her.. it's like 4 pages of that now... slightly embarrassing at this point...
Or do ya'll not realize, that NONE of the response to -cherp- are at all cohesive arguments, they're just words for the sake of carrying on a conversation.. user -139xxxx has been the main perpetrator of this..
and because -cherp.. is what she is, a female (internet attention **** type), she feeds on any and all attention..
Could we please get back to the Razr ... and how it's awful..Show Image(http://s1.postimage.org/15vny68ck/157.gif)
Yes I'm hitting on a girl who is located halfway across the planet from me because that's so realistic.
Exactly. That's _your_ impression. I already stated earlier in the thread that it's the people that have problems who are generally the most vocal(my opinion), thus it leaves the potentially lopsided impression that there are a lot of problems with Razer's keyboards in general. Whether that's actually true, I don't know, and I don't claim to know. I've maintained that if reviews are any indication, it seems most customers are fairly satisfied. Do I KNOW that most customers are satisfied? Did I ever CLAIM to know, for a fact, that most customers are satisfied? No. I'm basing the idea on the probability that if most customers weren't satisfied (ie. unhappy), I would tend to think they'd be more vocal in reviews, either on Amazon, Newegg, YouTube, tech site reviews, etc. The majority of reviews I read from the various aforementioned sources tend to reflect positively, if not extoll, the Blackwidow, both older and current models. If you don't agree with my position, then don't agree, however I've continued to defend that position for lack of convincing evidence otherwise.
Everyone will interpret it differently but....When you're looking to buy a product and you see the number of reviews for a newly released item...If you saw the BW 2014 numbers on Amazon, you wouldn't think anything of it? Forget about what you know about the product...For me, 15% 1-2 stars on a newly release product is a big warning sign.
To you what is a more significant assessment of the keyboard? The 5 star person that said "LEDS WOWOWOW" or the 2 star or 3 star person that is explaining what issues they've had?
I have no doubt Razer's quality on their mech keyboards is better today than it was a few years ago...but a lot of people have had issues in the past and that isn't so easily forgotten...and really, unless you specifically want a gaming keyboard with all of the extra features, is that really the keyboard you want?
Yes I'm hitting on a girl who is located halfway across the planet from me because that's so realistic.
You don't need to defend yourself, he's the resident troll; ensuring to keep all irrational stances such as sexism alive in our forums.
Yes I'm hitting on a girl who is located halfway across the planet from me because that's so realistic.
You don't need to defend yourself, he's the resident troll; ensuring to keep all irrational stances such as sexism alive in our forums.
I am the resident realist. and I find ur trolling weak.. too much reliance on assumed boobage, not enough political substance.Show Image(http://www.clubtuzki.com/avatars/tuzki_2013_avatar_24.png)
Flimsy Frame
Board flexing...
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
Flimsy Frame
Board flexing...
Flimsy frame and board flexing? You've obviously never tried to flex the case of a Blackwidow. They're anything but flexible or flimsy.
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
I wonder if it would be worth buying a new one with their switches and desoldering them for use in another board. I mean, I do want to learn how to do that anyway. If the orange switches are just as good, but feel better for a gamer than reds, I would be willing to try them out. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the switches themselves, that I can recall. HMMMMM
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
I wonder if it would be worth buying a new one with their switches and desoldering them for use in another board. I mean, I do want to learn how to do that anyway. If the orange switches are just as good, but feel better for a gamer than reds, I would be willing to try them out. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the switches themselves, that I can recall. HMMMMM
This one has Blues since it's the 2013 version, but I say go for it - you can find them for cheap and you could always harvest the parts for other projects. Or like you said use it as a board to learn how to solder and stuff. Good skill to have.
Also, I don't know why people complain about this particular board, as it has a steel plate and there's no flex to it. I completely sawed the case off and there's still no flex to it.
I don't take the time to take the actual quotes I'm replying to because I don't think this conversation is worth taking the time to do so.
You're wrong about the Amazon star rating. The average item being rated a 4.2 in Amazon's electronics department tells us that statistically, reviews are skewed left (at least in this department), and so a 4-star rating should be interpreted to be about a 3 (2.85 rounded up). (3/5 = 4.2/x, x ~ 7, 4/7 = x/5, x ~ 3). That's really the only point I was arguing with you. (And no, I can't find the exact skewness (3(mean-median)/Standard Deviation) because I'd have to request the actual numbers from Stanford who gathered the data in the first place).One only need read through a healthy number of reviews for a particular product in order to determine for themselves if the rating is, in fact, skewed. In this particular case, the reviews I've read tend to correspond to the star rating.
As I said before, if your point is that the 2014 BW is better quality than their other products
Flimsy Frame
Board flexing...
Flimsy frame and board flexing? You've obviously never tried to flex the case of a Blackwidow. They're anything but flexible or flimsy.
have you ever typed on one? the center of the board is like a trampoline.
Personally, I wouldn't consider 15% a red flag necessarily, but that's me.I do..on a new product that is rather high...but if you don't, fair enough..
False dilemma. What's relevant to me in a review is well-rounded and substantive input about the product as a whole, including but not limited to problematic issues.And having read the reviews, you feel most of the positive ones had substantive information about the product as a whole? Including reliability? Given the amount of time they would have had to test the product, that would be unlikely...
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.So how many reviews have you read for long term usage? How many substantive reviews have you seen that didn't just go over the features on a brand new product? Probably not a whole lot....I'd say a majority of the true experiences of the keyboard are accurately reflected on GH..where the keyboards are getting used, are getting analyzed and the term is longer term....Now, there are biases against Razer..no doubt...but the issues are the issues. Some people haven't had any problems with them, but a good number have..but to be fair, I have NOT seen a lot of information on the newest ones..no real complaints. I'm not sure if there hasn't been enough time or they're just made a lot better..time will tell. In the meantime, are you risking your money on them? I'm not. There would be absolutely no reason to buy them until they've proven they're reliable..especially because you know what else is out there and know where to get it..whereas the average consumer might not.
I don't take the time to take the actual quotes I'm replying to because I don't think this conversation is worth taking the time to do so.
Obviously. That's why you expend the effort to write nearly half a page every reply.You're wrong about the Amazon star rating. The average item being rated a 4.2 in Amazon's electronics department tells us that statistically, reviews are skewed left (at least in this department), and so a 4-star rating should be interpreted to be about a 3 (2.85 rounded up). (3/5 = 4.2/x, x ~ 7, 4/7 = x/5, x ~ 3). That's really the only point I was arguing with you. (And no, I can't find the exact skewness (3(mean-median)/Standard Deviation) because I'd have to request the actual numbers from Stanford who gathered the data in the first place).One only need read through a healthy number of reviews for a particular product in order to determine for themselves if the rating is, in fact, skewed. In this particular case, the reviews I've read tend to correspond to the star rating.As I said before, if your point is that the 2014 BW is better quality than their other products
My point was explicit. I've stated it several times and made it clear in my last post. Perhaps you require a screenshot of the relevant text with a giant arrow pointing to it.
And having read the reviews, you feel most of the positive ones had substantive information about the product as a whole? Including reliability? Given the amount of time they would have had to test the product, that would be unlikely...
I'd say a majority of the true experiences of the keyboard are accurately reflected on GH..where the keyboards are getting used, are getting analyzed and the term is longer term....Now, there are biases against Razer..no doubt...but the issues are the issues.
In the meantime, are you risking your money on them? I'm not. There would be absolutely no reason to buy them until they've proven they're reliable..especially because you know what else is out there and know where to get it..whereas the average consumer might not.
Skewness is a term in mathematics (specifically statistics) used to describe asymmetry from the normal distribution in a set of data. A meaningful "average" in the set of all electronics reviews for the last 15 years or so should be in near symmetry with the scale's average of 3. However, the statistical, calculated average of all of these millions of reviews is instead 4.2, an asymmetrical graph skewed left, resulting in a negative skew of about 1.3. When we talk about rating products, these numbers mean nothing if we don't give them a meaning. When the result of gathering data gives us an answer that is different than we expect, we have to adjust those numbers to fit the original meaning. If 4.2 is the average product rating, then that would mean 4.2 is average, and thus we need to shift our scale to assume that a user who rates a product a 1 is also using that as a 0-rating (which you will find referenced quite frequently) and 4 stars to describe an average product.
Using your definition of skewed outside of statistics, if you had read through a healthy number of 4 and 5 star reviews, you would have come to the same conclusion.
As to your first comment, I already said I have the tendency to not let things go. Typing is basically a thought-vomit for me, while maneuvering around a giant quote thread is pretty annoying and I'll only do it when I find it worth my time.
The in-depth review you referenced was more supportive of my view than yours, "I would rate the keyboard as a good buy if you get it cheap, or you want the lighting, or require a USB passthrough."
I really don't see your point in continuing to discuss with me at all, as all I can tell is that your standard for quality is just pretty damn low.
You also brought up a bunch of references for how you formed your conclusion that this product was deserving of being called excellent that offer out of the box reviews.
If you don't care about my opinion of Razer products (which is really related to their price point, if they were reasonably priced, I would happily call them average), then why do you continue to argue with me about it?
I already told you I won't drop it, so why don't you? Same irritating knack to need to get the last word in?
I can not believe you guys actually read the garbage you write each other...
..no i didn't read ur wallotxt
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
I wonder if it would be worth buying a new one with their switches and desoldering them for use in another board. I mean, I do want to learn how to do that anyway. If the orange switches are just as good, but feel better for a gamer than reds, I would be willing to try them out. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the switches themselves, that I can recall. HMMMMM
This one has Blues since it's the 2013 version, but I say go for it - you can find them for cheap and you could always harvest the parts for other projects. Or like you said use it as a board to learn how to solder and stuff. Good skill to have.
Also, I don't know why people complain about this particular board, as it has a steel plate and there's no flex to it. I completely sawed the case off and there's still no flex to it.
The complaints I've read about this board are about failures with the LEDs, specific keys, all the keys or all of the electrical parts. I've also read a few about poor solder jobs, but I'm not sure how wide-spread that is. I was reading that there are problems with people saying the tactility of the greens can vary among keys, but again, not sure how wide-spread this is either. And of course quality of the keycaps and the plastic casing.
I haven't seen any complaints about the oranges, but I did just read that they are also tactile. IE, not for me.
I can not believe you guys actually read the garbage you write each other...
:-XQuote..no i didn't read ur wallotxt
:-\
Skewness is a term in mathematics (specifically statistics) used to describe asymmetry from the normal distribution in a set of data. A meaningful "average" in the set of all electronics reviews for the last 15 years or so should be in near symmetry with the scale's average of 3. However, the statistical, calculated average of all of these millions of reviews is instead 4.2, an asymmetrical graph skewed left, resulting in a negative skew of about 1.3. When we talk about rating products, these numbers mean nothing if we don't give them a meaning. When the result of gathering data gives us an answer that is different than we expect, we have to adjust those numbers to fit the original meaning. If 4.2 is the average product rating, then that would mean 4.2 is average, and thus we need to shift our scale to assume that a user who rates a product a 1 is also using that as a 0-rating (which you will find referenced quite frequently) and 4 stars to describe an average product.
Using your definition of skewed outside of statistics, if you had read through a healthy number of 4 and 5 star reviews, you would have come to the same conclusion.
I understand. This (http://minimaxir.com/2014/06/reviewing-reviews/) article does a fine job of explicating the issue. If it weren't for the fact that a great number of reviews I've read for various products I own are often collectively consistent with my own opinion, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't find much value or make any real distinction between actually reading the reviews vs. relying solely on the star rating, suit yourself.As to your first comment, I already said I have the tendency to not let things go. Typing is basically a thought-vomit for me, while maneuvering around a giant quote thread is pretty annoying and I'll only do it when I find it worth my time.
In order to respond to what's being said in a thread, you have to wade through the text anyway. Adding the quote syntax along the way is actually a more proficient way to respond because you tackle the points as they're brought up upon first reading rather than having to potentially re-read them in order to keep track of what you're responding to after the fact. It's less proficient in general and more cumbersome for anyone who's trying to make sense of what you're talking about, but whatever lights your crack pipe.The in-depth review you referenced was more supportive of my view than yours, "I would rate the keyboard as a good buy if you get it cheap, or you want the lighting, or require a USB passthrough."
The issues that guy had with the keyboard were entirely unrelated to reliability(the crux of your view). His primary reasons for not recommending it wholeheartedly are as follows:
* The caps are rubbish, and should be the first thing that are switched out.
* The keyboard is too large, added to by the macro keys, the integrated rest, and the corners cut off.
* The biggest waste that could reduce cost and improve the product would be the removal of the LED and the logo.I really don't see your point in continuing to discuss with me at all, as all I can tell is that your standard for quality is just pretty damn low.
I don't know about you, but I'm responding because you keep replying with points I don't agree with. Frankly, if you don't want to discuss it anymore or think it's all stupid and irrelevant, no one's twisting your arm to keep replying, especially with 5 paragraph long posts.You also brought up a bunch of references for how you formed your conclusion that this product was deserving of being called excellent that offer out of the box reviews.
Emphasis on what I didn't say.If you don't care about my opinion of Razer products (which is really related to their price point, if they were reasonably priced, I would happily call them average), then why do you continue to argue with me about it?
Read what I previously wrote. I said I could frankly care less if you buy any or all of their products. However, why you're befuddled that a person would respond to claims you make that they don't agree with, who knows.I already told you I won't drop it, so why don't you? Same irritating knack to need to get the last word in?
You're projecting. If I was only interested in getting the last word in, I wouldn't care whether we agree to disagree, but I'm the one that suggested it.
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
I wonder if it would be worth buying a new one with their switches and desoldering them for use in another board. I mean, I do want to learn how to do that anyway. If the orange switches are just as good, but feel better for a gamer than reds, I would be willing to try them out. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the switches themselves, that I can recall. HMMMMM
This one has Blues since it's the 2013 version, but I say go for it - you can find them for cheap and you could always harvest the parts for other projects. Or like you said use it as a board to learn how to solder and stuff. Good skill to have.
Also, I don't know why people complain about this particular board, as it has a steel plate and there's no flex to it. I completely sawed the case off and there's still no flex to it.
The complaints I've read about this board are about failures with the LEDs, specific keys, all the keys or all of the electrical parts. I've also read a few about poor solder jobs, but I'm not sure how wide-spread that is. I was reading that there are problems with people saying the tactility of the greens can vary among keys, but again, not sure how wide-spread this is either. And of course quality of the keycaps and the plastic casing.
I haven't seen any complaints about the oranges, but I did just read that they are also tactile. IE, not for me.
Hmm I guess I guess I got one of the units without any of those problems. One of the first things I did after getting that board was taking it apart to look at the soldering job on it, and it appears to be perfectly fine. Neat and tidy, not messy at all. Yes the key caps it comes with are crap, but honestly, the same can be said about a lot of other boards on the market, such as Corsair, Cooler Master and even Filco. And considering what some Filco's sell for, that's pretty ridiculous. I guess I just got a decent unit.
Personally, I don't know exactly how many people have had issues with Razer's keyboards, nor do I know exactly how many are satisfied, but based on the collective ratings and reviews I've seen / read from various sources, my impression is that most customers are fairly happy. As to your question, though. If the Blackwidow had a matte finish, no macro keys, used what I considered a legible font, and didn't incorporate that stupid Razer logo below the space bar, then yes, it might be a keyboard I'd want.
TADA!
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/ynrozturk/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/ynrozturk/media/3_zps5c1c2c5d.jpg.html)
I wonder if it would be worth buying a new one with their switches and desoldering them for use in another board. I mean, I do want to learn how to do that anyway. If the orange switches are just as good, but feel better for a gamer than reds, I would be willing to try them out. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the switches themselves, that I can recall. HMMMMM
This one has Blues since it's the 2013 version, but I say go for it - you can find them for cheap and you could always harvest the parts for other projects. Or like you said use it as a board to learn how to solder and stuff. Good skill to have.
Also, I don't know why people complain about this particular board, as it has a steel plate and there's no flex to it. I completely sawed the case off and there's still no flex to it.
The complaints I've read about this board are about failures with the LEDs, specific keys, all the keys or all of the electrical parts. I've also read a few about poor solder jobs, but I'm not sure how wide-spread that is. I was reading that there are problems with people saying the tactility of the greens can vary among keys, but again, not sure how wide-spread this is either. And of course quality of the keycaps and the plastic casing.
I haven't seen any complaints about the oranges, but I did just read that they are also tactile. IE, not for me.
Hmm I guess I guess I got one of the units without any of those problems. One of the first things I did after getting that board was taking it apart to look at the soldering job on it, and it appears to be perfectly fine. Neat and tidy, not messy at all. Yes the key caps it comes with are crap, but honestly, the same can be said about a lot of other boards on the market, such as Corsair, Cooler Master and even Filco. And considering what some Filco's sell for, that's pretty ridiculous. I guess I just got a decent unit.
Well, I'm referring specifically to the 2014 boards, I don't really recall what the issues with the boards in the past were. I haven't read very many reviews of the 2013 model. I will say, though, that when normal consumers have a problem with the keycaps, that's a pretty crappy keycap. My Corsair K90's keycaps were paper thin and they are white plastic that has been painted black, it was my first mechanical keyboard and I remember it being the only thing I didn't like about it. They felt flimsy. I've gotten pretty picky now, so though I thought that the Choc Noopoo keycaps were great when I got that board (I mean after Corsair's origami keycaps...), I now don't like them at all.
That keyboard, the Corsair K90, got slammed into a wall (I was really mad at Diablo) and left a mark in the wall. That thing is solid. (No, I don't abuse all keyboards, just that one). I've read that these are just as bad as Razer's though, when it comes to key failure and electronic death within a couple of years. I only used mine for a few months, I just know that the construction can be slammed into a wall. I've kept it only because the housing is so pretty. I'd love to saw it down and use it to make a better (smaller) board someday.
If you're referring to the new Blackwidow, the jury is still out on the issue of reliability, though if the teardown I posted of the 2013 BW BF3 Edition is any indication, it may not be a concern. If you're talking about older incarnations, that's another story.Right. A good number of people have had issues early on (more than I would expect) but overall we don't know how the reliability will be. No point in talking about satisfaction about it either because we don't know. But there is no reason to believe, at this point, it is great. It might be but erring on the side of quality with Razer is probably NOT my first choice. It might end up being the most reliable board ever...but nothing so far would indicate we should believe that will be the case.
In my opinion, it's the people who are experiencing problems that are likely to be the most vocal. It can leave the lopsided impression that there's a potentially bigger problem with a product than there actually is. Is that the case with Razer? I don't claim to know, but it's something to think about.It might..but I think if you see a lot of reviews about reliability problems...stuff all over the place, that isn't an inaccurate point of view. What you see is just everyone's own assessment of what the product and product reliability is like. It is also why I appreciate the opinions of the people on here and DA more than I do just any reviews out there. I don't think the number of Razers on here outnumbers the number of any other keyboards so the number of potential faults is higher purely because of volume..but I think a lot of people here have an actual point of reference to compare them to and lets face it, they're also a lot more likely to break down their keyboard and find out what is wrong.
My claim was that the 2014 BW has not received what I would consider to be an overwhelmingly positive response from consumers. All of the data you brought up supports that claim. Let me summarize my comments:
My personal issue in the past has been that of reliability and quality. That is, the peripherals break down quickly or arrive defected. This is supported by more than 15% of the community as I've observed by looking up issues with the same products I've owned. Upon researching the 2014 BW, I did not find the empirical evidence speaking to the reliability of this particular product, suggesting that it may not be as bad as other products, but this would be an assumption as nearly all of the reviews are impressions given within a couple of weeks of ownership. I found the overall reviews to reflect a "meh" response from the community, nothing overwhelming enough for me to risk spending money to see if this product was more reliable than the other products I had tried.
However, further digging revealed many of the reviews did speak of defects and early product failure, though higher ratings were given by those who had a positive experience with customer service. Because of being very familiar with Amazon, I observed that 4 star ratings were too common to be considered above average and more likely a 4 star rating would be an average product. With a little research I discovered that was an accurate assumption, and in fact to call a 4 average is pretty generous, given that the most concentrated star rating value amongst electronics on Amazon is 5 stars. Further research about this product revealed more issues, specifically with the Chinese Cherry MX dupes. Many consumers reported variances amongst the tactility of the keys, the switches themselves breaking clean off and variances in the cross sizing causing some keycaps to be loose and others tight.
Also, the link you provided is a study I've already read based on the data acquired from Stanford I discussed earlier. While Max Woolf has determined that 2 and 3 star ratings are essentially useless on Amazon, I disagree -- I always read 2 & 3 star reviews, while I sift through the rest to find meaningful responses. We interpret that the scale is being used in the same way, however, for the most part, that is that 1 is being used to say they hated the product (or customer service or both), often referencing that they would rate it a 0 if they could. 4's if they thought it was okay, or average, and a 5 if they liked it or loved it, with no distinguishable difference between those two feelings. As a result, the average is a 4.2 star rating, indicating that a user is likely to rate a product 4 if they were satisfied, but not overly satisfied and a 5 if they are satisfied and also overly satisfied.
As Woolf points out, Amazon's scale isn't being used properly. For the most part, it's used as a 3-point scale: [1, 4, 5], so moving to a Like/Dislike system might be beneficial. Then when a product has less than an 80% approval rate, there won't be long threads arguing about whether or not the response from consumers was an average one.
My claim was that the 2014 BW has not received what I would consider to be an overwhelmingly positive response from consumers. All of the data you brought up supports that claim. Let me summarize my comments:
My personal issue in the past has been that of reliability and quality. That is, the peripherals break down quickly or arrive defected. This is supported by more than 15% of the community as I've observed by looking up issues with the same products I've owned. Upon researching the 2014 BW, I did not find the empirical evidence speaking to the reliability of this particular product, suggesting that it may not be as bad as other products, but this would be an assumption as nearly all of the reviews are impressions given within a couple of weeks of ownership. I found the overall reviews to reflect a "meh" response from the community, nothing overwhelming enough for me to risk spending money to see if this product was more reliable than the other products I had tried.
However, further digging revealed many of the reviews did speak of defects and early product failure, though higher ratings were given by those who had a positive experience with customer service. Because of being very familiar with Amazon, I observed that 4 star ratings were too common to be considered above average and more likely a 4 star rating would be an average product. With a little research I discovered that was an accurate assumption, and in fact to call a 4 average is pretty generous, given that the most concentrated star rating value amongst electronics on Amazon is 5 stars. Further research about this product revealed more issues, specifically with the Chinese Cherry MX dupes. Many consumers reported variances amongst the tactility of the keys, the switches themselves breaking clean off and variances in the cross sizing causing some keycaps to be loose and others tight.
Also, the link you provided is a study I've already read based on the data acquired from Stanford I discussed earlier. While Max Woolf has determined that 2 and 3 star ratings are essentially useless on Amazon, I disagree -- I always read 2 & 3 star reviews, while I sift through the rest to find meaningful responses. We interpret that the scale is being used in the same way, however, for the most part, that is that 1 is being used to say they hated the product (or customer service or both), often referencing that they would rate it a 0 if they could. 4's if they thought it was okay, or average, and a 5 if they liked it or loved it, with no distinguishable difference between those two feelings. As a result, the average is a 4.2 star rating, indicating that a user is likely to rate a product 4 if they were satisfied, but not overly satisfied and a 5 if they are satisfied and also overly satisfied.
As Woolf points out, Amazon's scale isn't being used properly. For the most part, it's used as a 3-point scale: [1, 4, 5], so moving to a Like/Dislike system might be beneficial. Then when a product has less than an 80% approval rate, there won't be long threads arguing about whether or not the response from consumers was an average one.
The question is whether the Stanford research applies to every product in the electronics category. For instance, if the ratings for all products in that category were defacto skewed, one would expect ratings for the same item on other sites to be a point lower. More importantly, one would expect to observe lower ratings by pro reviewers. However, ratings for the current Blackwidow are consistent with other sites and numerous pro reviews. In fact, it's worth mentioning that Amazon's score is actially sometimes lower.
However, consistent ratings among sites aren't limited to the Blackwidow. For instance, look up the Toshiba 50L4300U 50-Inch LED TV on Amazon and compare ratings / reviews.
I understand you've had a bleak history of reliability issues with Razer products. You're jaded. I get it. You think they're junk. Me, I've never been interested in Razer's other products, so I've never bothered to read much about them. However, in light of the reviews and feedback I've read regarding the Blackwidow over the last few years, I'm not convinced the people who are complaining are anywhere close to a majority, which is why I think we're still having this discussion. Like I said, if you want to believe their products are garbage, knock yourself out. I respect your opinion. I don't necessarily agree, but so what? Who says we have to agree?
I think if you see a lot of reviews about reliability problems...stuff all over the place, that isn't an inaccurate point of view.
Someone who's having issues with their board may specifically search for others who're experiencing the same or similar issues. By limiting their search to users who are having problems, the person may develop the skewed perception that more people are experiencing problems than actually are.
And having read the reviews, you feel most of the positive ones had substantive information about the product as a whole? Including reliability? Given the amount of time they would have had to test the product, that would be unlikely...
If you're referring to the new Blackwidow, the jury is still out on the issue of reliability, though if the teardown I posted of the 2013 BW BF3 Edition is any indication, it may not be a concern. If you're talking about older incarnations, that's another story.I'd say a majority of the true experiences of the keyboard are accurately reflected on GH..where the keyboards are getting used, are getting analyzed and the term is longer term....Now, there are biases against Razer..no doubt...but the issues are the issues.
In my opinion, it's the people who are experiencing problems that are likely to be the most vocal. It can leave the lopsided impression that there's a potentially bigger problem with a product than there actually is. Is that the case with Razer? I don't claim to know, but it's something to think about.In the meantime, are you risking your money on them? I'm not. There would be absolutely no reason to buy them until they've proven they're reliable..especially because you know what else is out there and know where to get it..whereas the average consumer might not.
I started with a Blackwidow, but reliability aside, my keyboard preferences have changed quite a bit since then. Even if Razer changed the BW to suit my preferences (mentioned earlier) I'd still have relatively little to no interest in one.
-
Arguing with yourself? :confused:
Someone who's having issues with their board may specifically search for others who're experiencing the same or similar issues. By limiting their search to users who are having problems, the person may develop the skewed perception that more people are experiencing problems than actually are.
You might...but if you read through them carefully..if you look at where the comments are coming from, you will be able to develop a good impression of what is going on.
Also, you're discounting the actual problems by thinking that way. Certain things are consistently a problem and you can see that right away...Enough common issues and you see a pattern....Granted, volume increases the number of actual problems but if you pay attention, you can get a good idea of what is a "meh" problem and what is a consistent issue with that provider.
You're saying the aggregate star rating is a "better" way of evaluating a product like this?
@Grim, yeah they are really attractive overall and do last for most people for a while I think they have improved recently ( atleast for now) .I always thought that the Blackwidow tournament edition (TKL, blues) was one of the most attractively priced and best bang for buck mechanical keyboard options that were available in my country.
I also think that you do not have to apologize for what you like. Everyone has their own preferences. Once you have a keyboard, you can disregard brand, and just focus on how a keyboard feels instead.
Finally, I think that almost all mechanical keyboards are too loud to be of any use to me. Too loud to use at work, too loud to use in the living room. Basically useless. I would probably get more practical use out of that Razer than I would out of any respected brand that uses Cherry MX switches without a silent option.
Wait what.. is the BW more silent than others, all of sudden ? O.o or have I missed something? The stealth version simply yas the equivalent of mx browns from what I've heard and tried of em..
To OP: I do like the BW as well ^^ but haven't tried it for a longer perios. I almost ended up with a bw tkl, but bought a HHKB instead :))
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
@Grim, yeah they are really attractive overall and do last for most people for a while I think they have improved recently ( atleast for now) .I always thought that the Blackwidow tournament edition (TKL, blues) was one of the most attractively priced and best bang for buck mechanical keyboard options that were available in my country.
I also think that you do not have to apologize for what you like. Everyone has their own preferences. Once you have a keyboard, you can disregard brand, and just focus on how a keyboard feels instead.
Finally, I think that almost all mechanical keyboards are too loud to be of any use to me. Too loud to use at work, too loud to use in the living room. Basically useless. I would probably get more practical use out of that Razer than I would out of any respected brand that uses Cherry MX switches without a silent option.
Wait what.. is the BW more silent than others, all of sudden ? O.o or have I missed something? The stealth version simply yas the equivalent of mx browns from what I've heard and tried of em..
To OP: I do like the BW as well ^^ but haven't tried it for a longer perios. I almost ended up with a bw tkl, but bought a HHKB instead :))
@sagii
It is like a softer/lighter brows, i have browns , all type of cherry mx brows and with different silencers/orings and they don't feel 100% exactly the same, you barely feel the click here. Similarities are there of course since they are supposed to be a clone of browns but it is enough to really satisfy me to buy this keyboard rather than others. I was going to take the hit on the HHKB but I decided not too. Just did not want to deal with the learning curve price if I wasn't 100% sure any other keyboard(and I have tried TONS) would do.
Actually told myself, if the next keyboard I bought sucked , I would go for a HHKB... but damn was I mistaken xD.
Let's say I pay close attention to what's being said and observe the origin of those comments. As long as my attention is focused primarily on users who are having issues to the exclusion of those who aren't, I'm likely to develop a lopsided impression. For example, let's say I asked you to look around your room for the next half a minute and notice everything that's brown. Then, I asked you to close your eyes and describe everything in your room that's green. Which color did you see more of?Only if you're looking for/at one thing. I'm sure you're not reading reviews like that right? Neither am I...Who does? But seeing a string of bad reviews from people are perfectly valid...you just have to be able to take things with a grain of salt. I'm sure you're not advocating ignoring them...so not sure what you're trying to say other than to take many different points of view in..
I'm not saying there are certain issues that aren't specific to, for instance, the Blackwidow, but it's easy to blow something out of proportion if that's primarily what you're focused on.How are you making the determination that is what is happening?
Star ratings don't provide context. They don't tell me what a rating is based on. Ideally, if I were going to evaluate the reliability of a product, I'd consider multiple sources.I know they don't..but weren't you earlier trying to somehow use them to show people's satisfaction with their purchase?
But seeing a string of bad reviews from people are perfectly valid...you just have to be able to take things with a grain of salt. I'm sure you're not advocating ignoring them...so not sure what you're trying to say other than to take many different points of view in..
weren't you earlier trying to somehow use them (ratings) to show people's satisfaction with their purchase?
How this all stemmed from a discussion about some ****ty Razer keyboard I will never understand.
How this all stemmed from a discussion about some ****ty Razer keyboard I will never understand.
I'm just curious, do you own one?
All I mean is that I thought we could all agree that there are better keyboards for the price.
Exactly. I'm not suggesting ignoring input from forums. I take it into account, sure. But I also consider it in light of other sources.That's fair enough..but you seemed to pin your argument around this amazon rating....was that to try to prove some sort of point? Because you don't seem to have that opinion yourself or your behavior yourself.
Their overall satisfaction, yes, but I also qualified my comment by suggesting corroboration with other sources.But you do realize a lot of their satisfaction could/would be short lived right? IMO, a 15% failure rate is rather significant..even more so with the limited release time...
I hate the term "gaming" keyboard almost as much as I hate the term "DJ headsets"
You can game with any standard keyboard. Hell, we weren't playing Quake III Arena with all this fancy stuff 17 years ago.
Omg. 17 years ago. Brb gonna go cry.
Exactly. I'm not suggesting ignoring input from forums. I take it into account, sure. But I also consider it in light of other sources.That's fair enough..but you seemed to pin your argument around this amazon rating....was that to try to prove some sort of point? Because you don't seem to have that opinion yourself or your behavior yourself.
Their overall satisfaction, yes, but I also qualified my comment by suggesting corroboration with other sources.But you do realize a lot of their satisfaction could/would be short lived right? IMO, a 15% failure rate is rather significant..even more so with the limited release time...
What other sources could you use for a new release?
Reviews on a site that won't give a bad review to a big company and certainly can't test any reliability issues?
You've already said yourself you wouldn't buy a Razer.
I never hung my arguments squarely on the peg of Amazon's ratings, though their accuracy and reliability dominated much of the previous discussion.If you don't consider them to be accurate why would you use that to try to prove a point? Or you do consider it accurate?
What source did you derive the 15% failure rate?Number of bad reviews to the number of total reviews. Of course if there were a lot via shipping problems, etc, that number would be lower. And of course this doesn't take into account ALL of the people that bought it...but looking at the number of people not happy with their purchase because of a problem, on a newly released item, that is high...Even if you lower that be a third, that is still 10%..
In reference to reliability? Not many if the product is less than a couple of months old.So no point in looking at those reviews to show GOOD reliability..the closest you can get early is the absence of bad ones..
You mean the way a company like Microsoft got hammered by innumerable sources for the Xbox 360's "Red Ring of Death" or the flogging Sony took for the Playstation 4's "Blue Light of Death"?
Yes, because my keyboard preferences have since changed subsequent purchasing a Blackwidow approx. 3 years ago.
I hate the term "gaming" keyboard almost as much as I hate the term "DJ headsets"
You can game with any standard keyboard. Hell, we weren't playing Quake III Arena with all this fancy stuff 17 years ago.
Omg. 17 years ago. Brb gonna go cry.
I never hung my arguments squarely on the peg of Amazon's ratings, though their accuracy and reliability dominated much of the previous discussion.If you don't consider them to be accurate why would you use that to try to prove a point? Or you do consider it accurate?
What source did you derive the 15% failure rate?Number of bad reviews to the number of total reviews. Of course if there were a lot via shipping problems, etc, that number would be lower. And of course this doesn't take into account ALL of the people that bought it...but looking at the number of people not happy with their purchase because of a problem, on a newly released item, that is high...Even if you lower that be a third, that is still 10%..
You mean the way a company like Microsoft got hammered by innumerable sources for the Xbox 360's "Red Ring of Death" or the flogging Sony took for the Playstation 4's "Blue Light of Death"?
Talking about a known bug or problem for a device is not a bad review..that is just reporting facts..
How many bad reviews are you seeing of new products from large companies?
Yes, because my keyboard preferences have since changed subsequent purchasing a Blackwidow approx. 3 years ago.Even with the changes you said would make it ok you wouldn't get it either...
Can I ask how you arrived at purchasing OTHER keyboards?
In the case of the Blackwidow, I consider it fairly accurate, though a recent poll (http://kotaku.com/the-best-gaming-keyboard-1450882495) leaves one to wonder.Wonder about what? Whether it is popular? We know it is...that's all that poll is about, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that..
The Blackwidow's current overall rating is comparable to the Playstation 4 and Xbox One. If you consider that unacceptable, then so be it.And that is relevant how? If I want a Playstation 4, I have one option. If I want a game console, I have a handful of options. If I want a mechanical keyboard I have how many options?
Bad review or otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that those bugs are mentioned in reviews for both consoles. Would 'reporting the facts' regarding known bugs or problems in a Blackwidow review (if there were any) be any different?For a known issue, I don't consider that when reviewing a product...that is like knowing about the red ring of death and then complaining when you get it..But I can see what you're saying. Either way, I don't have an option if I want a Playstation 4. If there were the PlayChair 4 that played the same games but didn't have a problem, which one am I getting?
I don't sort by bad reviews or negative ratings, but doing a quick check over at techradar turned up a few less than savory reviews of products by some fairly big names.Sorry, I should qualify this a bit...How many reviews from places getting their stuff for free are handing out bad reviews? I see very very few...but then again, I rarely, if ever, rely on these sites for anything other than reviewing features and a brief overview of the product. I know they can't review reliability and I don't care about their opinion about certain features or lack there of.
Which isn't connected with doubts regarding the Blackwidow's reliability.
I discovered vintage keyboards a few years back and that's where my interests currently reside.
I hate the term "gaming" keyboard almost as much as I hate the term "DJ headsets"
You can game with any standard keyboard. Hell, we weren't playing Quake III Arena with all this fancy stuff 17 years ago.
Omg. 17 years ago. Brb gonna go cry.
Haha, made me laugh, mate! C'mon, quake and wolfenstein ET multiplayer was the two best things to ever happen ^.^ well, at least ET.
When I first came here I thought I needed a "gaming" keyboard to game, hence my first ever thread called "Gaming keyboards"... you lot turned me over yo :)) also didnt want smaller than fullsize, then tkl, then mby 75%, then maybe 60%, then FKIT, 60%!
Man, what a journey it has been :))
I hate the term "gaming" keyboard almost as much as I hate the term "DJ headsets"
You can game with any standard keyboard. Hell, we weren't playing Quake III Arena with all this fancy stuff 17 years ago.
Omg. 17 years ago. Brb gonna go cry.
Haha, made me laugh, mate! C'mon, quake and wolfenstein ET multiplayer was the two best things to ever happen ^.^ well, at least ET.
When I first came here I thought I needed a "gaming" keyboard to game, hence my first ever thread called "Gaming keyboards"... you lot turned me over yo :)) also didnt want smaller than fullsize, then tkl, then mby 75%, then maybe 60%, then FKIT, 60%!
Man, what a journey it has been :))
Those were the days! Looking back, I can't believe how good we played with those mechanical mice. Take the ball out, clean it before every match. No one is supposed to be that accurate with the railgun in Quake III, but we were, haha! I still have my old mechanical mice, they're a piece of history. When I upgraded to my Logitech MX518 it was like the best thing in the world. And that thing still works.
I've never liked full size keyboards as I never ever use the number pad, I am more of a 60% guy for sure. Though I like my TKL's as well. Just no damn numb pad. I like my mouse close ^-^
I hate the term "gaming" keyboard almost as much as I hate the term "DJ headsets"
You can game with any standard keyboard. Hell, we weren't playing Quake III Arena with all this fancy stuff 17 years ago.
Omg. 17 years ago. Brb gonna go cry.
Haha, made me laugh, mate! C'mon, quake and wolfenstein ET multiplayer was the two best things to ever happen ^.^ well, at least ET.
When I first came here I thought I needed a "gaming" keyboard to game, hence my first ever thread called "Gaming keyboards"... you lot turned me over yo :)) also didnt want smaller than fullsize, then tkl, then mby 75%, then maybe 60%, then FKIT, 60%!
Man, what a journey it has been :))
Those were the days! Looking back, I can't believe how good we played with those mechanical mice. Take the ball out, clean it before every match. No one is supposed to be that accurate with the railgun in Quake III, but we were, haha! I still have my old mechanical mice, they're a piece of history. When I upgraded to my Logitech MX518 it was like the best thing in the world. And that thing still works.
I've never liked full size keyboards as I never ever use the number pad, I am more of a 60% guy for sure. Though I like my TKL's as well. Just no damn numb pad. I like my mouse close ^-^
I'll have to admit I'm not old enough to rememer playing with mechanical mice, though :)) In fact, I'm only 20! But I've played ET more than all other games I've played throughout the years...... combined! (okey, not THAT much).
There's no game that will ever beat ET in my eyes. Not because it was a perfect game, but because everything combined made it awesome. The insanely nice and helpful community, which sadly eventually faded away, the long nights playing map after map, tweaking the ingame settings with cfgs, toubleshooting why the heck you can't connect, wanting to rip your hair out when playing a trickjumping map, and the list goes on. Ahhh, memories.
EDIT: Sorry, I got sidetracked. But yeah, after trying 60% I doubt I'll ever be able go back to anything bigger than TKL.
In the case of the Blackwidow, I consider it fairly accurate, though a recent poll (http://kotaku.com/the-best-gaming-keyboard-1450882495) leaves one to wonder.Wonder about what? Whether it is popular? We know it is...that's all that poll is about, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that..
The Blackwidow's current overall rating is comparable to the Playstation 4 and Xbox One. If you consider that unacceptable, then so be it.And that is relevant how? If I want a Playstation 4, I have one option. If I want a game console, I have a handful of options. If I want a mechanical keyboard I have how many options?
Bad review or otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that those bugs are mentioned in reviews for both consoles. Would 'reporting the facts' regarding known bugs or problems in a Blackwidow review (if there were any) be any different?For a known issue, I don't consider that when reviewing a product...that is like knowing about the red ring of death and then complaining when you get it.
I don't sort by bad reviews or negative ratings, but doing a quick check over at techradar turned up a few less than savory reviews of products by some fairly big names.Sorry, I should qualify this a bit...How many reviews from places getting their stuff for free are handing out bad reviews? I see very very few...but then again, I rarely, if ever, rely on these sites for anything other than reviewing features and a brief overview of the product. I know they can't review reliability and I don't care about their opinion about certain features or lack there of.
Which isn't connected with doubts regarding the Blackwidow's reliability.
I discovered vintage keyboards a few years back and that's where my interests currently reside.
But if not for that and if they changed certain things you'd be open to it?
That's precisely the point. If the Blackwidow (not necessarily the new model) is known to be unreliable, as some people are loathe to stress, why is it so popular? Why haven't pro reviewers pointed out known bugs or problems if, in fact, they exist(a la the PS4 and Xbox One)? If there's really a problem, where's the onslaught of YouTube videos from owners documenting it? For example, try searching YouTube for 'Xbox red ring of death' and you'll find upwards of 25+ pages of videos. By comparison, try searching for videos documenting problems related to the Blackwidow (any model) and tell me what you find.Why is it so popular? Marketing? Ignorance? Why did you buy one? There are tons of people on here who have a Razer as their first Mech Keyboard...mainly because they didn't know anything else existed. Or do you think it has to do with quality? I doubt you do...
Okay, but what does that have to do with the issue -- you singled out the Blackwidow's dissatisfaction rate as being rather dismal, even though the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same rating. To address your question... if you want a Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 Elite, how many options do you have? If you want an 84-key IBM Model F, how many options do you have? If you want a Dell Quiet Key keyboard, you've really only got one option. So on and so forth.There are more than a handful of consoles (in each generation?)? No there aren't. Sure you could go back and get an older one that has no new game support, is just getting old from use or old from time. I'm sure you understood what I was referring to as well...Or was that not really obvious?
However, if you want a gaming console, there are certainly more than a handful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) of options available.
My point is that pro reviewers can and do note reliability issues, thus if there were known problems with the Blackwidow (any model) why haven't they been mentioned in at least some pro reviews?Easy answer for this...First thing is, they probably reviewed a new device. Second thing is, they can't be bothered to come back and talk about how the soldering was weak on this keyboard so they're not going to write an article on that. And frankly, they probably haven't used it enough to get to that point. They don't come back and talk about how this button on their console broke either or this minor thing eventually broke. There is no interest in that. It isn't like covering a software bug that bricks your box. Or an issue that covers EVERY keyboard or every box. Are you saying because there aren't pro reviews about any type of reliability issue it doesn't exist? I'm sure you know better than that..
How many reputable pro review sites can you name that never post a mediocre / negative review?
If I were into gaming keyboards, sure.Well if they made changes to the keyboard you were talking about it wouldn't even be a gaming keyboard, it would just be a mech keyboard...So you'd buy it over some of the other options available out there in the same category?
That's precisely the point. If the Blackwidow (not necessarily the new model) is known to be unreliable, as some people are loathe to stress, why is it so popular? Why haven't pro reviewers pointed out known bugs or problems if, in fact, they exist(a la the PS4 and Xbox One)? If there's really a problem, where's the onslaught of YouTube videos from owners documenting it? For example, try searching YouTube for 'Xbox red ring of death' and you'll find upwards of 25+ pages of videos. By comparison, try searching for videos documenting problems related to the Blackwidow (any model) and tell me what you find.Why is it so popular? Marketing? Ignorance? Why did you buy one? There are tons of people on here who have a Razer as their first Mech Keyboard...mainly because they didn't know anything else existed. Or do you think it has to do with quality? I doubt you do...Okay, but what does that have to do with the issue -- you singled out the Blackwidow's dissatisfaction rate as being rather dismal, even though the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same rating. To address your question... if you want a Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 Elite, how many options do you have? If you want an 84-key IBM Model F, how many options do you have? If you want a Dell Quiet Key keyboard, you've really only got one option. So on and so forth.There are more than a handful of consoles (in each generation?)? No there aren't. Sure you could go back and get an older one that has no new game support, is just getting old from use or old from time. I'm sure you understood what I was referring to as well...Or was that not really obvious?
However, if you want a gaming console, there are certainly more than a handful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) of options available.
And you're talking about one specific model of keyboard..If you only want THAT one, you don't have an option....but there are plenty of alternatives in the mechanical keyboard market...There are not in the console market.
So as far as the Amazon star rating..First off, the evaluation time is different...PS4, etc rating is over time where issues have developed and people have come back and complained...With the Razer, there hasn't been enough time to evaluate reliability over time..so the sampling is different and would not reflect how the Razer will do given some real usage. What you can say is for the short period of time the Razer has been out (maybe we're looking at different amazon ratings, I'm looking at the 2014 blackwidows), there are a significant number of issues....Secondly, would it matter what the star rating is on a Playstation 4? You either get that or an Xbox One or Wii U....IN some cases those aren't any better, they don't have the game selection don't have the specific game (replace any of the consoles with any console from that gen, same thing). But lets say one console had a really bad problem and the others did not, would that impact people's buying decision? It would for some...And if they all have similar issues? You don't have other options...But again, if you want certain games, etc...you don't have other options available..My point is that pro reviewers can and do note reliability issues, thus if there were known problems with the Blackwidow (any model) why haven't they been mentioned in at least some pro reviews?Easy answer for this...First thing is, they probably reviewed a new device. Second thing is, they can't be bothered to come back and talk about how the soldering was weak on this keyboard so they're not going to write an article on that. And frankly, they probably haven't used it enough to get to that point. They don't come back and talk about how this button on their console broke either or this minor thing eventually broke. There is no interest in that. It isn't like covering a software bug that bricks your box. Or an issue that covers EVERY keyboard or every box. Are you saying because there aren't pro reviews about any type of reliability issue it doesn't exist? I'm sure you know better than that..How many reputable pro review sites can you name that never post a mediocre / negative review?
You see it all the time in different industries...including the tech industry. The bigger names will rarely get a bad review. Bad review = no ad revenue, bad review = not getting stuff sent to you for free from that company. Some of them don't care (they shouldn't) but a lot do. Keep in mind, an "objective" comparison test where you're testing how fast X device is compared to Y is different...In many cases you've probably let them know you're doing the test..the results are what the results are.If I were into gaming keyboards, sure.Well if they made changes to the keyboard you were talking about it wouldn't even be a gaming keyboard, it would just be a mech keyboard...So you'd buy it over some of the other options available out there in the same category?
That's precisely the point. If the Blackwidow (not necessarily the new model) is known to be unreliable, as some people are loathe to stress, why is it so popular? Why haven't pro reviewers pointed out known bugs or problems if, in fact, they exist(a la the PS4 and Xbox One)? If there's really a problem, where's the onslaught of YouTube videos from owners documenting it? For example, try searching YouTube for 'Xbox red ring of death' and you'll find upwards of 25+ pages of videos. By comparison, try searching for videos documenting problems related to the Blackwidow (any model) and tell me what you find.Why is it so popular? Marketing? Ignorance? Why did you buy one? There are tons of people on here who have a Razer as their first Mech Keyboard...mainly because they didn't know anything else existed. Or do you think it has to do with quality? I doubt you do...Okay, but what does that have to do with the issue -- you singled out the Blackwidow's dissatisfaction rate as being rather dismal, even though the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same rating. To address your question... if you want a Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 Elite, how many options do you have? If you want an 84-key IBM Model F, how many options do you have? If you want a Dell Quiet Key keyboard, you've really only got one option. So on and so forth.There are more than a handful of consoles (in each generation?)? No there aren't. Sure you could go back and get an older one that has no new game support, is just getting old from use or old from time. I'm sure you understood what I was referring to as well...Or was that not really obvious?
However, if you want a gaming console, there are certainly more than a handful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) of options available.
And you're talking about one specific model of keyboard..If you only want THAT one, you don't have an option....but there are plenty of alternatives in the mechanical keyboard market...There are not in the console market.
So as far as the Amazon star rating..First off, the evaluation time is different...PS4, etc rating is over time where issues have developed and people have come back and complained...With the Razer, there hasn't been enough time to evaluate reliability over time..so the sampling is different and would not reflect how the Razer will do given some real usage. What you can say is for the short period of time the Razer has been out (maybe we're looking at different amazon ratings, I'm looking at the 2014 blackwidows), there are a significant number of issues....Secondly, would it matter what the star rating is on a Playstation 4? You either get that or an Xbox One or Wii U....IN some cases those aren't any better, they don't have the game selection don't have the specific game (replace any of the consoles with any console from that gen, same thing). But lets say one console had a really bad problem and the others did not, would that impact people's buying decision? It would for some...And if they all have similar issues? You don't have other options...But again, if you want certain games, etc...you don't have other options available..My point is that pro reviewers can and do note reliability issues, thus if there were known problems with the Blackwidow (any model) why haven't they been mentioned in at least some pro reviews?Easy answer for this...First thing is, they probably reviewed a new device. Second thing is, they can't be bothered to come back and talk about how the soldering was weak on this keyboard so they're not going to write an article on that. And frankly, they probably haven't used it enough to get to that point. They don't come back and talk about how this button on their console broke either or this minor thing eventually broke. There is no interest in that. It isn't like covering a software bug that bricks your box. Or an issue that covers EVERY keyboard or every box. Are you saying because there aren't pro reviews about any type of reliability issue it doesn't exist? I'm sure you know better than that..How many reputable pro review sites can you name that never post a mediocre / negative review?
You see it all the time in different industries...including the tech industry. The bigger names will rarely get a bad review. Bad review = no ad revenue, bad review = not getting stuff sent to you for free from that company. Some of them don't care (they shouldn't) but a lot do. Keep in mind, an "objective" comparison test where you're testing how fast X device is compared to Y is different...In many cases you've probably let them know you're doing the test..the results are what the results are.If I were into gaming keyboards, sure.Well if they made changes to the keyboard you were talking about it wouldn't even be a gaming keyboard, it would just be a mech keyboard...So you'd buy it over some of the other options available out there in the same category?
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.I agree..they'll almost never use it or get to a point where they'll even test reliability..and if for some reason they do continue to use it, some small problem isn't going to garner any press by them...
Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.Is there a difference? Not really to me...but everyone defines it differently...Surely you don't think your definition is the only one..
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
I'm not sure I understood this broken message properly but there's a high failure rate to Razer products. I've owned them, I've known others who owned them and I discuss them.
It is luck of the draw. I knew this too from my previous experience with them. I have friends who have had Black Widows from 3-4 years ago with no issues, and people that had one broken down in 6 months. I am hoping I am lucky about it so far. I mean if I could I would remove the switches and make a new board ( but dk if that is possible, and if it is no way I have the time or resources to).
Just really digging these switches.
I know this is only my second post here, and I can only speak of their mice, but I've had to return every Razer mouse I've had. Of all the Logitech (though I hate the company), I have had only one peripheral fail (my G510). Yes, the products sell, but not a lot of people come to flame in reviews (at least not as many as one would think). I have a ton of Razer mice I could put negative reviews on Amazon for but just haven't. But yes, I did buy them, I suppose...
No, no, and no. Razer blackwidows don't break down or ppl wouldn't buy them. Their products sell and they don't need geekhack's seal of approval ala keyed up labs. Brand new brand but better than Filco. Wot?!
Is this still for connoisseurs or ppl trying to fit in and promote the next fad?
That's precisely the point. If the Blackwidow (not necessarily the new model) is known to be unreliable, as some people are loathe to stress, why is it so popular? Why haven't pro reviewers pointed out known bugs or problems if, in fact, they exist(a la the PS4 and Xbox One)? If there's really a problem, where's the onslaught of YouTube videos from owners documenting it? For example, try searching YouTube for 'Xbox red ring of death' and you'll find upwards of 25+ pages of videos. By comparison, try searching for videos documenting problems related to the Blackwidow (any model) and tell me what you find.Why is it so popular? Marketing? Ignorance? Why did you buy one? There are tons of people on here who have a Razer as their first Mech Keyboard...mainly because they didn't know anything else existed. Or do you think it has to do with quality? I doubt you do...Okay, but what does that have to do with the issue -- you singled out the Blackwidow's dissatisfaction rate as being rather dismal, even though the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same rating. To address your question... if you want a Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 Elite, how many options do you have? If you want an 84-key IBM Model F, how many options do you have? If you want a Dell Quiet Key keyboard, you've really only got one option. So on and so forth.There are more than a handful of consoles (in each generation?)? No there aren't. Sure you could go back and get an older one that has no new game support, is just getting old from use or old from time. I'm sure you understood what I was referring to as well...Or was that not really obvious?
However, if you want a gaming console, there are certainly more than a handful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) of options available.
And you're talking about one specific model of keyboard..If you only want THAT one, you don't have an option....but there are plenty of alternatives in the mechanical keyboard market...There are not in the console market.
So as far as the Amazon star rating..First off, the evaluation time is different...PS4, etc rating is over time where issues have developed and people have come back and complained...With the Razer, there hasn't been enough time to evaluate reliability over time..so the sampling is different and would not reflect how the Razer will do given some real usage. What you can say is for the short period of time the Razer has been out (maybe we're looking at different amazon ratings, I'm looking at the 2014 blackwidows), there are a significant number of issues....Secondly, would it matter what the star rating is on a Playstation 4? You either get that or an Xbox One or Wii U....IN some cases those aren't any better, they don't have the game selection don't have the specific game (replace any of the consoles with any console from that gen, same thing). But lets say one console had a really bad problem and the others did not, would that impact people's buying decision? It would for some...And if they all have similar issues? You don't have other options...But again, if you want certain games, etc...you don't have other options available..My point is that pro reviewers can and do note reliability issues, thus if there were known problems with the Blackwidow (any model) why haven't they been mentioned in at least some pro reviews?Easy answer for this...First thing is, they probably reviewed a new device. Second thing is, they can't be bothered to come back and talk about how the soldering was weak on this keyboard so they're not going to write an article on that. And frankly, they probably haven't used it enough to get to that point. They don't come back and talk about how this button on their console broke either or this minor thing eventually broke. There is no interest in that. It isn't like covering a software bug that bricks your box. Or an issue that covers EVERY keyboard or every box. Are you saying because there aren't pro reviews about any type of reliability issue it doesn't exist? I'm sure you know better than that..How many reputable pro review sites can you name that never post a mediocre / negative review?
You see it all the time in different industries...including the tech industry. The bigger names will rarely get a bad review. Bad review = no ad revenue, bad review = not getting stuff sent to you for free from that company. Some of them don't care (they shouldn't) but a lot do. Keep in mind, an "objective" comparison test where you're testing how fast X device is compared to Y is different...In many cases you've probably let them know you're doing the test..the results are what the results are.If I were into gaming keyboards, sure.Well if they made changes to the keyboard you were talking about it wouldn't even be a gaming keyboard, it would just be a mech keyboard...So you'd buy it over some of the other options available out there in the same category?
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-orbweaver
Razer has made it already.
It sells reasonably well
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.I agree..they'll almost never use it or get to a point where they'll even test reliability..and if for some reason they do continue to use it, some small problem isn't going to garner any press by them...Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.Is there a difference? Not really to me...but everyone defines it differently...Surely you don't think your definition is the only one..
The Orbweaver comes in Blues anyway if I remember correctly - not exactly optimal for quick double tapping most gamers need.
The Orbweaver comes in Blues anyway if I remember correctly - not exactly optimal for quick double tapping most gamers need.
Both of their switches are tactile on the new BlackWidow as well. I'm really confused as to why they don't offer a linear switch as well.
That's precisely the point. If the Blackwidow (not necessarily the new model) is known to be unreliable, as some people are loathe to stress, why is it so popular? Why haven't pro reviewers pointed out known bugs or problems if, in fact, they exist(a la the PS4 and Xbox One)? If there's really a problem, where's the onslaught of YouTube videos from owners documenting it? For example, try searching YouTube for 'Xbox red ring of death' and you'll find upwards of 25+ pages of videos. By comparison, try searching for videos documenting problems related to the Blackwidow (any model) and tell me what you find.Why is it so popular? Marketing? Ignorance? Why did you buy one? There are tons of people on here who have a Razer as their first Mech Keyboard...mainly because they didn't know anything else existed. Or do you think it has to do with quality? I doubt you do...
Okay, but what does that have to do with the issue -- you singled out the Blackwidow's dissatisfaction rate as being rather dismal, even though the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same rating. To address your question... if you want a Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 Elite, how many options do you have? If you want an 84-key IBM Model F, how many options do you have? If you want a Dell Quiet Key keyboard, you've really only got one option. So on and so forth.There are more than a handful of consoles (in each generation?)? No there aren't. Sure you could go back and get an older one that has no new game support, is just getting old from use or old from time. I'm sure you understood what I was referring to as well...Or was that not really obvious?
However, if you want a gaming console, there are certainly more than a handful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) of options available.
there are plenty of alternatives in the mechanical keyboard market...There are not in the console market.
So as far as the Amazon star rating..First off, the evaluation time is different...PS4, etc rating is over time where issues have developed and people have come back and complained...With the Razer, there hasn't been enough time to evaluate reliability over time..so the sampling is different and would not reflect how the Razer will do given some real usage.
Secondly, would it matter what the star rating is on a Playstation 4?
You either get that or an Xbox One or Wii U....IN some cases those aren't any better, they don't have the game selection don't have the specific game (replace any of the consoles with any console from that gen, same thing). But lets say one console had a really bad problem and the others did not, would that impact people's buying decision?
My point is that pro reviewers can and do note reliability issues, thus if there were known problems with the Blackwidow (any model) why haven't they been mentioned in at least some pro reviews?Easy answer for this...First thing is, they probably reviewed a new device. Second thing is, they can't be bothered to come back and talk about how the soldering was weak on this keyboard so they're not going to write an article on that. And frankly, they probably haven't used it enough to get to that point. They don't come back and talk about how this button on their console broke either or this minor thing eventually broke. There is no interest in that. It isn't like covering a software bug that bricks your box. Or an issue that covers EVERY keyboard or every box. Are you saying because there aren't pro reviews about any type of reliability issue it doesn't exist?
How many reputable pro review sites can you name that never post a mediocre / negative review?
You see it all the time in different industries...including the tech industry. The bigger names will rarely get a bad review. Bad review = no ad revenue, bad review = not getting stuff sent to you for free from that company. Some of them don't care (they shouldn't) but a lot do. Keep in mind, an "objective" comparison test where you're testing how fast X device is compared to Y is different...In many cases you've probably let them know you're doing the test..the results are what the results are.
If I were into gaming keyboards, sure.Well if they made changes to the keyboard you were talking about it wouldn't even be a gaming keyboard, it would just be a mech keyboard...So you'd buy it over some of the other options available out there in the same category?
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
That's not the point. If a problem were significant, complaints would extend beyond participants on a forum, in my opinion.But they do. Within 5-6 months of release about 15% have complained about it on Amazon. If you polled which was the worst mechanical keyboard, which one do you think it would've been? My guess, Razer Blackwidow. Just goes to show that poll is meaningless.
The fact is, there wasn't much choice when the Nintendo Virtual Boy was released but that didn't stop it from being a commercial flop, nor did it stop the Atari Jaguar from tanking, and it certainly didn't stop the Apple Pippin from ever really getting off the ground. Choice has nothing to do with it. In the face of little choice, consumers have shown they're not obligated to buy much less like a product, which is why the aforementioned consoles failed.
There's plenty of choice in the console market, just not in the next gen console category, and not to sound flippant, but so what? What does that have to do with anything? Consumers have consistently shown they're not obligated to buy or like any product, regardless of choice or the lack thereof. How many choices did Windows users have when Windows 8 was released? Do you think they all begrudgingly opened their wallet and glowered while handing over their hard earned cash to Microsoft? Of course not. A lot of users simply refused to upgrade, and lackluster reviews tell the tale.We're completely going off topic but after 8.1 - after they fixed their user issue...complaints have been rather minor but regardless.
The 2014 Blackwidow Ultimate was released how many months ago?5 or 6? Something like that? And you're saying that would be enough time to test its reliability? If not why would you ask that question?
Of course. Ratings impact public perception and amount to good or bad marketing and PR. It's the same reason pro reviews for next gen consoles or any product matters. If they didn't, no one would read or write them. People are interested in what other people think. Why do you think there's a review section on this site?Sorry, I should be more specific...I agree, if there is an overwhelming hate for a device, that would definitely impact it...but if it was say, 3.5 stars vs. 4.5 stars on Amazon..would that make a difference? Not at all..
If there's a significant issue related to a particular piece of hardware, I have absolutely no reason to believe that at least some pro reviewers or articles on tech sites will cover it at some point. The fact is, the Xbox and Playstation bugs didn't affect EVERY console. In fact, most contributors that covered the issue in reviews and on tech sites noted that they didn't have a problem with their test unit. Their coverage was based on considerable feedback. If tech sites aren't covering broken buttons on consoles or a minor issue related to hardware it's probably because it's minor(as you suggested), and that's precisely my point.Random different reliability issues are difficult to correlate. Oh this persons spacebar and gone bad, this person had rust, this persons Q key is busted, this persons LED went out.
You didn't answer my question. How many reputable pro review sites can you specifically name that never post a mediocre / negative review?Wine Companion, Wine Advocate, Wine Spectator. "Bad" is all relative but negative reviews don't get published. It doesn't mean a particular wine didn't receive a bad score, just means it wasn't published. GolfWRX - They review all the equipment but I don't even recall seeing a negative review. It might not be as good as other things but I'm not seeing negative reviews.
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Would you like examples of professional -reviews- that mention the reliability issues related to the Xbox 360? If the Red Ring of Death isn't a reliability issue, what is?
Secondly, you can find pages of problems related to practically any popular keyboard if you use the same search terms and replace the words Razer BlackWidow. Further, just as the Red Ring of Death or Blue Light of Death issues bled beyond forums and drenched YouTube and pro tech sites with coverage, I would expect the same in reference to a serious issue related to a popular piece of hardware such as the Blackwidow. As I suggested earlier, try searching YouTube for problems or issues related to the Blackwidow and tell me how many pages you can find.Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
I have no affinity for the term gaming keyboard. It's typically a designation assigned to keyboards designed with features presumed to appeal to gamers, such as a separate set of macro keys, Winkey disable, specific software, etc. A lot of 'gaming keyboards' are typically accompanied with bells and whistles that (I presume) have little or no appeal to average users.
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Would you like examples of professional -reviews- that mention the reliability issues related to the Xbox 360? If the Red Ring of Death isn't a reliability issue, what is?
Secondly, you can find pages of problems related to practically any popular keyboard if you use the same search terms and replace the words Razer BlackWidow. Further, just as the Red Ring of Death or Blue Light of Death issues bled beyond forums and drenched YouTube and pro tech sites with coverage, I would expect the same in reference to a serious issue related to a popular piece of hardware such as the Blackwidow. As I suggested earlier, try searching YouTube for problems or issues related to the Blackwidow and tell me how many pages you can find.Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
I have no affinity for the term gaming keyboard. It's typically a designation assigned to keyboards designed with features presumed to appeal to gamers, such as a separate set of macro keys, Winkey disable, specific software, etc. A lot of 'gaming keyboards' are typically accompanied with bells and whistles that (I presume) have little or no appeal to average users.
1. I should have specified that I was talking about PC gaming peripherals, but I suppose it could easily be taken out of the context to which I was referring.
2. Many of those bells and whistles have little or no appeal to actual gamers, either.
That's not the point. If a problem were significant, complaints would extend beyond participants on a forum, in my opinion.But they do. Within 5-6 months of release about 15% have complained about it on Amazon.
We're completely going off topic but after 8.1 - after they fixed their user issue...complaints have been rather minor but regardless. This doesn't relate to Razer in any case...it certainly doesn't relate to whether it is a reliable keyboard based on reviews...
The 2014 Blackwidow Ultimate was released how many months ago?
5 or 6? Something like that? And you're saying that would be enough time to test its reliability?
If there's a significant issue related to a particular piece of hardware, I have absolutely no reason to believe that at least some pro reviewers or articles on tech sites will cover it at some point. The fact is, the Xbox and Playstation bugs didn't affect EVERY console. In fact, most contributors that covered the issue in reviews and on tech sites noted that they didn't have a problem with their test unit. Their coverage was based on considerable feedback. If tech sites aren't covering broken buttons on consoles or a minor issue related to hardware it's probably because it's minor(as you suggested), and that's precisely my point.
Random different reliability issues are difficult to correlate. Oh this persons spacebar and gone bad, this person had rust, this persons Q key is busted, this persons LED went out. That is different than if there was a huge number of a single problem
The bugs like Red Ring of Death didn't impact every Xbox, but as far as anyone was concerned, it was common enough an issue where most (or at least a lot) could be impacted by it. The reliability problems I see reported are almost always when the same problem occurs and becomes a relatively common problem. I'm sure you see the difference as well.
I'm actually shocked you think the pro reviews are more reliable than an enthusiasts community (or you're suggesting that). I think in most industries, that has proven to not be the case. I actually can't think of any industry where the "pro" reviews are considered to be better..I'm sure they must exist but I can't think of any. Or maybe you're just saying they haven't been verified by the pro reviews..but really, if you recognize that the enthusiast community (in any industry) gets into the much finer details, is less concerned about marketing, is comparing to it different options out there, pro reviews don't even come close. In fact, if you read some of the pro reviews on mechanical keyboards specifically, it is obvious they haven't used them much (and some admit that).
Are you saying a pro review would have unearthed a problem w/ the Razer Blackwidow? You're saying if one of their Q keys broke they'd create a new article for that? Maybe if they google it and 100 other people's Q key has broken, but would they?
1. I should have specified that I was talking about PC gaming peripherals, but I suppose it could easily be taken out of the context to which I was referring.
2. Many of those bells and whistles have little or no appeal to actual gamers, either.
You've never seen a review mention build quality issues or quality control problems with a test unit? You've never read a review that cited widely reported problems?
I'm going to cut in here. First of all, most professional reviews are not the kind of reviews that could possibly discuss reliability and issues at all. They are unboxings and first impressions.
If you want to find known issues for the Razer BlackWidow 2013-current, all models, just type in "Razer BlackWidow issues (or problems)" and you can find pages and pages of them on TeamLiquid, Tom's Hardware, Overclock.net, YouTube and more.
Would you like examples of professional -reviews- that mention the reliability issues related to the Xbox 360? If the Red Ring of Death isn't a reliability issue, what is?
Secondly, you can find pages of problems related to practically any popular keyboard if you use the same search terms and replace the words Razer BlackWidow. Further, just as the Red Ring of Death or Blue Light of Death issues bled beyond forums and drenched YouTube and pro tech sites with coverage, I would expect the same in reference to a serious issue related to a popular piece of hardware such as the Blackwidow. As I suggested earlier, try searching YouTube for problems or issues related to the Blackwidow and tell me how many pages you can find.Please don't user the term gaming keyboard. It's just a mechanical keyboard being marketed toward gamers. If anything I would say a "gaming keyboard" would only have the keys necessary for gaming with ergonomically good positioning, available in multiple tilts and sizes. That doesn't exist.
I have no affinity for the term gaming keyboard. It's typically a designation assigned to keyboards designed with features presumed to appeal to gamers, such as a separate set of macro keys, Winkey disable, specific software, etc. A lot of 'gaming keyboards' are typically accompanied with bells and whistles that (I presume) have little or no appeal to average users.
1. I should have specified that I was talking about PC gaming peripherals, but I suppose it could easily be taken out of the context to which I was referring.
2. Many of those bells and whistles have little or no appeal to actual gamers, either.
http://ergodex.com/content12.php
Is this closer to what you want?
You've never seen a review mention build quality issues or quality control problems with a test unit? You've never read a review that cited widely reported problems?
I have see them mention build issues..but that generally isn't the problem in the case of reliability.
I've said I've seen reports on widely reported problems. Not on random problems. Eg. What is the difference between the Q key breaking on 100 keyboards and random keys breaking on 100 keyboards? One might get reported, the other wouldn't. One is consistent issue, the other is just general quality issues. Random keys breaking on 100 keyboards doesn't make it minor though.
Your opinion on how many early failures is obviously different than mine....Your usage of an enthusiasts community is probably identical just not sure you're willing to admit it...but that's fine.
There's a certain common thread of consistency to key caps breaking at random though, in my opinion; key caps being that common thread. Are those types of random issues likely to get reported? It hasn't stopped Amazon customers from reporting random key cap breakage on the Logitech G710 Plus. If enough random reliability issues are reported, I have every reason to believe at least some reviewers will take note. Take the Nokia 6700 Classic (http://www.s21.com/nokia-6700-classic.htm) for instance. Again, the apotheosis being MS Windows.
I appreciate the enthusiast community, especially this one. It's an indispensable repository of keyboard knowledge. That said, the sampling size for certain keyboards is too small to draw any real conclusions regarding reliability though, in my opinion.
You've never seen a review mention build quality issues or quality control problems with a test unit? You've never read a review that cited widely reported problems?
I have see them mention build issues..but that generally isn't the problem in the case of reliability.
I've said I've seen reports on widely reported problems. Not on random problems. Eg. What is the difference between the Q key breaking on 100 keyboards and random keys breaking on 100 keyboards? One might get reported, the other wouldn't. One is consistent issue, the other is just general quality issues. Random keys breaking on 100 keyboards doesn't make it minor though.
Your opinion on how many early failures is obviously different than mine....Your usage of an enthusiasts community is probably identical just not sure you're willing to admit it...but that's fine.
There's a certain common thread of consistency to key caps breaking at random though, in my opinion; key caps being that common thread. Are those types of random issues likely to get reported? It hasn't stopped Amazon customers from reporting random key cap breakage on the Logitech G710 Plus. If enough random reliability issues are reported, I have every reason to believe at least some reviewers will take note. Take the Nokia 6700 Classic (http://www.s21.com/nokia-6700-classic.htm) for instance. Again, the apotheosis being MS Windows.
I appreciate the enthusiast community, especially this one. It's an indispensable repository of keyboard knowledge. That said, the sampling size for certain keyboards is too small to draw any real conclusions regarding reliability though, in my opinion.
You've never seen a review mention build quality issues or quality control problems with a test unit? You've never read a review that cited widely reported problems?
I have see them mention build issues..but that generally isn't the problem in the case of reliability.
I've said I've seen reports on widely reported problems. Not on random problems. Eg. What is the difference between the Q key breaking on 100 keyboards and random keys breaking on 100 keyboards? One might get reported, the other wouldn't. One is consistent issue, the other is just general quality issues. Random keys breaking on 100 keyboards doesn't make it minor though.
Your opinion on how many early failures is obviously different than mine....Your usage of an enthusiasts community is probably identical just not sure you're willing to admit it...but that's fine.
There's a certain common thread of consistency to key caps breaking at random though, in my opinion; key caps being that common thread. Are those types of random issues likely to get reported? It hasn't stopped Amazon customers from reporting random key cap breakage on the Logitech G710 Plus. If enough random reliability issues are reported, I have every reason to believe at least some reviewers will take note. Take the Nokia 6700 Classic (http://www.s21.com/nokia-6700-classic.htm) for instance. Again, the apotheosis being MS Windows.
I appreciate the enthusiast community, especially this one. It's an indispensable repository of keyboard knowledge. That said, the sampling size for certain keyboards is too small to draw any real conclusions regarding reliability though, in my opinion.
1391406, ur english is the suck.. I dared to read just-1-more of your posts.. and it has cost me some sanity ...Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/nonono-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862513)
and why do i get the feeling you either never took or failed statistics.Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/uhuhuh-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862523)
You've never seen a review mention build quality issues or quality control problems with a test unit? You've never read a review that cited widely reported problems?
I have see them mention build issues..but that generally isn't the problem in the case of reliability.
I've said I've seen reports on widely reported problems. Not on random problems. Eg. What is the difference between the Q key breaking on 100 keyboards and random keys breaking on 100 keyboards? One might get reported, the other wouldn't. One is consistent issue, the other is just general quality issues. Random keys breaking on 100 keyboards doesn't make it minor though.
Your opinion on how many early failures is obviously different than mine....Your usage of an enthusiasts community is probably identical just not sure you're willing to admit it...but that's fine.
There's a certain common thread of consistency to key caps breaking at random though, in my opinion; key caps being that common thread. Are those types of random issues likely to get reported? It hasn't stopped Amazon customers from reporting random key cap breakage on the Logitech G710 Plus. If enough random reliability issues are reported, I have every reason to believe at least some reviewers will take note. Take the Nokia 6700 Classic (http://www.s21.com/nokia-6700-classic.htm) for instance. Again, the apotheosis being MS Windows.
I appreciate the enthusiast community, especially this one. It's an indispensable repository of keyboard knowledge. That said, the sampling size for certain keyboards is too small to draw any real conclusions regarding reliability though, in my opinion.
1391406, ur english is the suck.. I dared to read just-1-more of your posts.. and it has cost me some sanity ...Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/nonono-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862513)
and why do i get the feeling you either never took or failed statistics.Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/uhuhuh-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862523)
The implication that you still have any remaining sanity baffles me.
Hasn't stopped Amazon customers (individuals) from reporting it..of course not. We're talking the pro reviewers which you give a reasonable amount of weight to..which I don't...especially not with Mech keyboards....They don't report minor issues like that..not enough interest, not worth their time, etc.
In any case...I weigh the community opinion far more than random people, most of which don't know a whole lot about mech keyboards to begin with. I certainly put no weight into the pro reviews when it comes to mech keyboards..most of them are admittedly "new" to mechanical keyboards...The only thing I can get from them are problems with the keyboard and explaining some basic features which I'm probably already familiar with.
I've emphasized collective corroboration from multiple sources, not strictly pro reviews. Like I said, Windows wasn't considered unstable for lack of reviews (or tech articles) noting how randomly unreliable it was. Personally, I don't consider Tom's Hardware, AnandTech, or PC World the domain of keyboard neophytes(not that you claimed they were).
Don't get me wrong, on a lot of other stuff they're fantastic...but when it comes to mech keyboards? No...