Bringing back Cherry dyesubs #believethehype
(http://i.imgur.com/u3gXqFK.gif)Bringing back Cherry dyesubs #believethehype
with backlit legends
(Attachment Link)
"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
for the l33t gam3rz obliviously :))
"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
for the l33t gam3rz obliviously :))
Yes, most seem to think they have reaction times in the sub 10ms range.
"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"I demand a jet-powered keyboard!
So I wonder what the last limitation was with the MX module?Last limitation was it not being hall effect.
Optical switches with mx stems. yummyThis exists (https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157647389243857/) as a chinese clone
#ownedbymx"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
for the l33t gam3rz obliviously :))
My reaction time is instantaneous. Still looking for some 0ms monitors :O.
I hate when people claim this, because besides that human beings cannot react that quickly (unless they predict something), they disregard the fact that if they really cared about instantaneous connections they would use a CRT monitor."The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
for the l33t gam3rz obliviously :))
What I don't understand is how you have mfg issues with a design that is practically unchanged in 20+ years. But that's just my 2 cents.
So I wonder what the last limitation was with the MX module?Last limitation was it not being hall effect.
No joke: performs three orders of magnitude better than cherry MX on multiple metrics. Available since 1970.Optical switches with mx stems. yummyThis exists (https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157647389243857/) as a chinese clone#ownedbymx"The technology used in today's keyboards, is actually far too slow"
For who? Sean Wrona?
for the l33t gam3rz obliviously :))
My reaction time is instantaneous. Still looking for some 0ms monitors :O.
CRT.
Does this have to do with Uniqey?ooh, let's hope. I can't wait for more announcements on that
Does this have to do with Uniqey?ooh, let's hope. I can't wait for more announcements on that
not a gaming board as far as i can tell, doubt it'll be marketed as one. the MX 3.0 board kinda got cherry riled up since it didn't do too hot
not a gaming board as far as i can tell, doubt it'll be marketed as one. the MX 3.0 board kinda got cherry riled up since it didn't do too hot
I happen to like the MX 3.0: if you like low profile Cherry MX keyboards it's really your only option.
IMHO Cherry failed for several reasons:
1. As far as I can tell - and please correct me - here in the US they spent $0 in marketing.
2. At least here in the US - and I'm not sure abroad - MX Red is your only option - nothing else.
3. No tenkeyless variant.
4. Should have stuck with the MX 2.0's POM/PBT instead of ABS.
Some will point out to "flat keys flat keys!"; however a lot of people grew up with flat keys and they like it. To them you are the weird ones. :D
Cherry could come out with a PCB mounted tenkeyless gamer board and play to their strengths: Push PCB mounted switches and demonstrate the customization you can get from plugging in new springs/stems without soldiering. Maybe even run a contest for the best combo which will become a future product.
But... they do sell those KC104 sets with normal Cherry profile that come with the funny caps locks for MX2.0 and 3.0.
not a gaming board as far as i can tell, doubt it'll be marketed as one. the MX 3.0 board kinda got cherry riled up since it didn't do too hot
I happen to like the MX 3.0: if you like low profile Cherry MX keyboards it's really your only option.
IMHO Cherry failed for several reasons:
1. As far as I can tell - and please correct me - here in the US they spent $0 in marketing.
2. At least here in the US - and I'm not sure abroad - MX Red is your only option - nothing else.
3. No tenkeyless variant.
4. Should have stuck with the MX 2.0's POM/PBT instead of ABS.
Some will point out to "flat keys flat keys!"; however a lot of people grew up with flat keys and they like it. To them you are the weird ones. :D
Cherry could come out with a PCB mounted tenkeyless gamer board and play to their strengths: Push PCB mounted switches and demonstrate the customization you can get from plugging in new springs/stems without soldiering. Maybe even run a contest for the best combo which will become a future product.
I would have been happy if the caps lock had been some standard stem spacing versus a completely new stem spacing.
Show Image(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10679971_1563566407221148_1963031055185128320_o.png)
But... they do sell those KC104 sets with normal Cherry profile that come with the funny caps locks for MX2.0 and 3.0.
The biggest thing I didn't like about those boards was it's odd shape. I find irregular shapes very unappealing. If they had just made it straight across the top it would have been 1000% more attractive looking.
Actually, wasn't the 2.0 only a 2KRO board? I'm pretty sure all Cherry G80 have in switch diode if they are 6KRO/NKRO. I can't ever recall them using smd on the PCB on any model.
Frankly even if the new switches break your arm when they use them they'll still be better than Cherry MX.
Frankly even if the new switches break your arm when they use them they'll still be better than Cherry MX.
Besides the thing where it's cool to hate on MX, why do you say that? I'm not saying MX is perfect but they are still fairly good.
Frankly even if the new switches break your arm when they use them they'll still be better than Cherry MX.
Besides the thing where it's cool to hate on MX, why do you say that? I'm not saying MX is perfect but they are still fairly good.
I'm just being a hyperbolic ass. Actually I'm pretty interested to see what they come out with. I'm not a huge fan of MX switches and it would be nice for there to be something new in the high end of the market. Having to go vintage or pay obscene prices for better quality switches is always a pain.
I'm guessing it'll be a faster actuating gaming switch since that's what the competition (razer and logitech) has been pushing lately. I'm hoping for TKL so I can slow down on buying Filcos and QFRs.
At least they got it pretty right the first time with MLI'm guessing it'll be a faster actuating gaming switch since that's what the competition (razer and logitech) has been pushing lately. I'm hoping for TKL so I can slow down on buying Filcos and QFRs.
Ditto, although a high end switch would be nice there is sadly more money in l33t keyboards right now.
It could also be a low profile one, though I would not count on it.
Show Image(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10679971_1563566407221148_1963031055185128320_o.png)
Those are clearly freaking trapezoidsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/UJReubB.png)
Is this a :trapezoid: moment?
From the Cherry Corp FAQ:
http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/2014/march/cherry-faq-answers (http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/2014/march/cherry-faq-answers)
"Would it be possible to make a switch similar to Topre in the sense that it is much more silent for work environments? O-rings aren't the solution.
The O-Rings are not a CHERRY idea at all. But we will launch a much better technical solution in the near future. Stay tuned for that."
You missed the point of the picture. Look at the left side of the cube. You can see "RK"RadiergummiKuppel? :p
ML V2 confirmed :))
From the Cherry Corp FAQ:
http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/2014/march/cherry-faq-answers
"Would it be possible to make a switch similar to Topre in the sense that it is much more silent for work environments? O-rings aren't the solution.
The O-Rings are not a CHERRY idea at all. But we will launch a much better technical solution in the near future. Stay tuned for that."
Inb4 Cherry rubber splashguard like the police cruiser keyboards.
So tommorrow we will find out what it is.
10-11AM UTC
CHERRY is the most experienced keyboard manufacturer worldwide. We innovated the most popular mechanical key switch: CHERRY MX. Now it's time to take it to the next level with the Real Key® Technology.
That is their presentation description.
It could also be a low profile one, though I would not count on it.
So tommorrow we will find out what it is.
10-11AM UTC
CHERRY is the most experienced keyboard manufacturer worldwide. We innovated the most popular mechanical key switch: CHERRY MX. Now it's time to take it to the next level with the Real Key® Technology.
That is their presentation description.
Ooh, where'd you find that post? RK was the hint! :))
So tommorrow we will find out what it is.
10-11AM UTC
CHERRY is the most experienced keyboard manufacturer worldwide. We innovated the most popular mechanical key switch: CHERRY MX. Now it's time to take it to the next level with the Real Key® Technology.
That is their presentation description.
i hope it's triangle shaped and has gold in it.
i hope it's triangle shaped and has gold in it.
Switches utilizing a Thunderbolt bus with a multi-core microcontroller and polling rate of several kHz? Either that or Cherry MX switch with a moon rock leaf.several KHz poll rate doesn't matter if the switches themselves need 5ms to 12ms to debounce.
10-11AM UTCUTC? It is 10.30 UTC now, but Las Vegas is UTC-8 so it is in the middle of the night there now.
10-11AM UTCUTC? It is 10.30 UTC now, but Las Vegas is UTC-8 so it is in the middle of the night there now.
SO
ANYTHING?
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
We do? I don't.
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
We do? I don't.
It's Cherry RK, almost certainly a new switch... beyond that, we don't know
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
Exactly what we need more threads about the same things. :facepalm:
Now we know what the release is; I think we should switch to this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67312.0) -> not because of it being my own thread but because this topic seems irrelevant now and OP has not updated the title.
Exactly what we need more threads about the same things. :facepalm:
Maybe so, but isn't it better to have a thread that is actually relevant and contains info about the release in the OP? It just frustrates me that this post is now seemingly unrelated to the topic at hand.
Looking at all of the livestreams, and apperently nobody went to the Cherry event.
rip in pieces
So the built in RGB light in the switch is cool.
Guys... NKRO?
So the built in RGB light in the switch is cool.
The LED's are on the PCB the switch housing are just clear, those were the 'big' thing last year.Guys... NKRO?
NKRO isn't anything new.
So the built in RGB light in the switch is cool.
The LED's are on the PCB the switch housing are just clear, those were the 'big' thing last year.Guys... NKRO?
NKRO isn't anything new.
That's what I'm saying. They're saying it like it's revolutionary. I phrased my post badly :/
Heh. Went private while I was watching it. Bunch of guys talking about the MX Board 6.0 w/o actually showing anything. From what they were talking about, the 6.0 is based on MX modules that are read out in an analog fashion (vs. "classic" digitally.) The innovation is in the supporting hardware (electronics, AL case/plate) and firmware, they claim NKRO and 1ms overall latency. That's it, pretty pathetic. I have implemented < 2ms latency in my corecon firmware (https://code.google.com/p/corecon/source/detail?r=18) last year and I don't think I was the first. Meh.
Keep in mind that true analog switches means being able to determine how far a switch is pressed. For example, in a game, slightly pressed = walk, mostly pressed/bottomed out = running, etc.
It just looks like they are going for the gaming market. Even on their YouTube channel, their banner says "Cherry Professional Gaming"
No need to debounce is new. The "analog readout" claim is curios.
It just looks like they are going for the gaming market. Even on their YouTube channel, their banner says "Cherry Professional Gaming"
It just looks like they are going for the gaming market. Even on their YouTube channel, their banner says "Cherry Professional Gaming"
Is there another market for 'high-end' keyboards?
If I were Cherry, I'd be marketing the analog switches up and down, showing advantages of them in games and CAD applications, etc. Makes me suspicious of what it is that they have actually created.
If I were Cherry, I'd be marketing the analog switches up and down, showing advantages of them in games and CAD applications, etc. Makes me suspicious of what it is that they have actually created.
It will turn out those new switches used by Steelseries on the mechanical Apex is what all this hype is about :))Those are made by Kailh, BTW. You can see their logo on the top of the switch in promotional material.
This is exactly how I interpreted it. Kind of hard to interpret it any other way, really, especially with that corny MX+RK = 6.0 ending.If I were Cherry, I'd be marketing the analog switches up and down, showing advantages of them in games and CAD applications, etc. Makes me suspicious of what it is that they have actually created.
I don't think they are new switches...the video implied they are still using MX switches with RK switch detection
I think it's marketing hype to be honest. Just trying to get more sales.
Here is the 9 minute private video, recorded and uploaded:
Analogue sensing for n-key rollover is not new. Microsoft has a patent for doing it with resistors. A guy who worked on it has posted here on GH about it. It is used in SideWinder X4.
The Cherry MX switch still needs to be debounced. It is not like there is an analogue curve from unpressed to pressed.
| Pure speed: | The world's fastest keyboard – with CHERRY MX and CHERRY RK |
| Mechanics: | CHERRY MX RED – Gold Crosspoint precision keyswitch for all keys »Made in Germany« |
| Pure design: | Aluminium housing with sanded finish and grease resistant coating |
| Electrics: | CHERRY RealKey technology – fully analog signal processing |
| Full-N-Key rollover: | All keyswitches are read simultaneously |
| 100% anti-ghosting: | No inputting errors |
Accurate, fast, pure, what does that even mean :confused:
Analogue sensing for n-key rollover is not new. Microsoft has a patent for doing it with resistors. A guy who worked on it has posted here on GH about it. It is used in SideWinder X4.
Paul Dietz (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=3187). Interesting fella.The Cherry MX switch still needs to be debounced. It is not like there is an analogue curve from unpressed to pressed.
Well, if each switch is connected to GND and has a small capacitor in parallel, discharge (switch closes) could be almost instantaneous, recharge (switch opens) may take a bit longer (due to bounce, although opening is less bouncy.) Keeping track of the capacitors would be quite a task tho. Looking forward to the first teardown of a 6.0 board... :)
You'd really need a classic RC debounce circuit spec appropriately for the debounce time. I noted earlier that they could be doing this and then using an ADC to read the voltage and detect switch press and release using and arbitrary point on the discharge and recharge curves. This could explain their separate line for each switch comment in the video.
https://www.cherry.de/cid/RealKey_Technology.htm?cpssessionid=SID-EECDB16A-B63BC481
Details of the board here (http://www.cherry.de/cid/Mechanical_keyboards_CHERRY_MX_BOARD_60.htm). $219 MSRP...I wouldn't call that horrible pricing since it does have an aluminum top but I'm betting it has a plastic bottom, definitely no notches...
"up to 20ms", correct me if I'm wrong but don't many keyboards have 1000hz polling rate? Wouldn't that make them take 1ms to detect?They actually said "most conventional keyboards today need an average time of about 20ms", implying a scan every 40ms, i.e. 25 Hz polling rate. Anyone know what the typical scan rate is on a $10 rubber dome board or scissor switch board? Those are going to account for "most conventional keyboards today".
"up to 20ms", correct me if I'm wrong but don't many keyboards have 1000hz polling rate? Wouldn't that make them take 1ms to detect?
"up to 20ms", correct me if I'm wrong but don't many keyboards have 1000hz polling rate? Wouldn't that make them take 1ms to detect?They actually said "most conventional keyboards today need an average time of about 20ms", implying a scan every 40ms, i.e. 25 Hz polling rate. Anyone know what the typical scan rate is on a $10 rubber dome board or scissor switch board? Those are going to account for "most conventional keyboards today".
Rubber domes are a lot more "bouncy" than other switch types and need a longer debounce time (scan rate is probably at least 200Hz even for RD's.)That’s not the implication of their video, but I can totally believe that the message from the engineers got totally twisted around by the time the marketing people got to it.
More: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/CES-Tastatur-mit-besonders-geringer-Latenz-2511214.html?wt_mc=sm.feed.tw.ho&hg=1&hgi=2&hgf=false
I'm not sure why cherry didn't put MX RGB switches into this board. Mistake.
Yes. That means that the switch is sampled every ms. First after n identical readings is the switch considered on or off."up to 20ms", correct me if I'm wrong but don't many keyboards have 1000hz polling rate? Wouldn't that make them take 1ms to detect?1ms to detect that a key started changing, now needing debounce time.
Now there is an interesting bit of info: "Jeder Taste und jeder Tastenkombination ist ein individueller Widerstandswert zugeordnet." -- "Every key and key combination is assigned an individual resistance value."I agree. There is another explanation in the document (slides?) that SpAmRaY linked to:
USB 3.0 dosen't really seem like it would be a big deal on a +$200 board... I have to agree there they missed a trick by not using the RGB ones. Or... they could have done it the messy crap way with usb 2.0 and had it use it's own power brick LOL.
USB 3.0 dosen't really seem like it would be a big deal on a +$200 board...Having a keyboard with features that stop working if your computer doesn’t support USB 3.0 sounds like a really bad idea.
Would it come with usual MX switches? Or will they bring a totally new type of switch as well?
Seriously.. this is an exercise in BULL **** g4m3r philosophy to suck money out of parents through their stupid kids..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/super-sayan-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862522)
I don't know why y'all are hatin'. I really like the design of this new Razer keyboard.
No delay in signal read? Is Cherry using quatum entanglement?
The main problem with the MX Board 6.0 is that Cherry over-hyped it in both the teaser and the presentation. Cherry's marketing has been painfully embarrassing lately. Marketing savvy is not part of Cherry DNA. Hyperbole is part of Cherry DNA.
I don't know why y'all are hatin'. I really like the design of this new Razer keyboard.
No delay in signal read? Is Cherry using quatum entanglement?
The main problem with the MX Board 6.0 is that Cherry over-hyped it in both the teaser and the presentation. Cherry's marketing has been painfully embarrassing lately. Marketing savvy is not part of Cherry DNA. Hyperbole is part of Cherry DNA.
Dude.. is -hyperbole- the new buzz word here on GH? hahahahaha
Even if you get 20ms down to 1ms... are humans going to be able to take advantage of that ? are games designed around 1ms input intervals... what application requires human precision of 1ms...What makes you think keyboards are designed for regular humans?
Even if you get 20ms down to 1ms... are humans going to be able to take advantage of that ? are games designed around 1ms input intervals... what application requires human precision of 1ms...What makes you think keyboards are designed for regular humans?
As every nerd knows, Jedi knights can easily make thousands of keystrokes/second.
So basically NKRO... I guess?
So basically NKRO... I guess?
Even if you get 20ms down to 1ms... are humans going to be able to take advantage of that ? are games designed around 1ms input intervals... what application requires human precision of 1ms...What makes you think keyboards are designed for regular humans?
As every nerd knows, Jedi knights can easily make thousands of keystrokes/second.
(Attachment Link)
Here is the 9 minute private video, recorded and uploaded:
Almost fell asleep watching that...
Maybe that's why they took it down...
:eek:
Screw Cherry; where are my Gaterons?Ordered the switch tester on Massdrop with the Gateron on it. I'll see what they are worth.
MUAHAHAHAAH!!
So Cherry innovation is licensing a technology from another company (RK=resistive ADC matrix, from Microsoft)? Yup, that's true innovation for sure.
Cherry MX - imprecise and scratchy technology made for decades without any change at all except slowly deteriorating molds = more Cherry innovation!
What a load of BS.
MUAHAHAHAAH!!
So Cherry innovation is licensing a technology from another company (RK=resistive ADC matrix, from Microsoft)? Yup, that's true innovation for sure.
Cherry MX - imprecise and scratchy technology made for decades without any change at all except slowly deteriorating molds = more Cherry innovation!
What a load of BS.
Based on the marketing BS video and the part number this looks like they use a normal cherry MX switch and different resistive sensing technology (licensed from microsoft) instead of diodes and a more expensive controller
At least the Force Travel Diagram tab shows the correct one. And they don't show the pinout of the switch ANYWHERE. Or the stabiliser dimensions. I know I seem to be Cherry bashing here, but I'm designing a PCB for ML switches and finding this very frustrating.
Screw Cherry; where are my Gaterons?Ordered the switch tester on Massdrop with the Gateron on it. I'll see what they are worth.
Screw Cherry; where are my Gaterons?Ordered the switch tester on Massdrop with the Gateron on it. I'll see what they are worth.
Oh ****, can someone link me that? I didn't realize they had Gateron switch testers.
Screw Cherry; where are my Gaterons?Ordered the switch tester on Massdrop with the Gateron on it. I'll see what they are worth.
Oh ****, can someone link me that? I didn't realize they had Gateron switch testers.
Well, I like it...
The difference in speed is probably so small as to be imperceptible, but being imperceptibly faster is better than not being faster at all.
No, it's not anything revolutionary, but at least it's not more useless decoration like fancy lighting or key caps.
Yes and the real innovation revealed in the clip is this deep, assertive male voice:
Keyboard looks fine to me.. wish it was TKL thoFrom Cherry? Good luck lol
"Inscription technology: Laser", eew.Yeah, that is how most backlit keycaps are made. Cast in translucent plastic, painted on top and then the legends are burned off with laser to reveal the plastic beneath.