You'll want to go for a board with Matias switches for sure, but for what it's worth there's also the Solidtek KB-6600 with White Alps. It's a decent board for $5, but you can't get them for that price anymore. They're all sold out on the site that was selling them for that much.
There are 4...
http://tactile.pro
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/?l=product_detail&p=988
The Focus FK-2001 used "complicated" Alps SKCM White (amongst various other switches) — these went out of production around 1996. The OmniKey series used SKCM Blue and White.
Matias keyboards used "simplified" Alps/Forward SKBM Grey and SKBM White, which officially went out of production in 2012.
"Officially."
See, a source told me more recently that Forward did in fact sell the SKBM tooling to Datacomp, and we know that Datacomp are selling Alps clone switches, but Datacomp have utterly refused to talk to me, and while people have subsequently observed their products at trade fairs (including a brochure showing the switch internals), all they've come back with is pathetic low-resolution photos (like we're still in the 90s when digital cameras used serial ports and floppy diskettes) so I can't tell for certain whether Datacomp switches are still SKBM (tentatively they appeared that way).
Matias switches are based heavily on the SKBM series, but they're not as clean and crisp feeling as genuine SKCM White switches from the late 80s and early 90s.
It's important to remember that many people abuse the term "Alps". There have been no Alps-branded mechanical switches for some years — Forward had already re-branded the SKBM series (removing the Alps logos and adding their own just to the bottom only) before they ceased production.
See, a source told me more recently that Forward did in fact sell the SKBM tooling to Datacomp, and we know that Datacomp are selling Alps clone switches, but Datacomp have utterly refused to talk to me,I heard from a guy recently who said they offered to send him some samples, and he was asking how I thought Forward SKBM switches compared to Matias clicky switches.
Matias switches are based heavily on the SKBM series, but they're not as clean and crisp feeling as genuine SKCM White switches from the late 80s and early 90s.Personally I feel the opposite, based on the ones I’ve tried (close to new SKBM switches (from the late-1990s?) compared against new (from late 2013) Matias switches). I found the Matias switches to have a “cleaner” force curve and a stronger more consistent click.
Great information, thanks. If I just want to try genuine "complicated" Alps SKCM White, is there a reason to prefer the Focus FK-2001 over the Northgate Omnikey 101, or vice versa?Those two keyboards use the same Tai Hao double-shot ABS keycaps. The Omnikey is a very solid case, with a metal backplate, whereas the FK-2001 is pretty flimsy. I think the Omnikey might be NKRO, but I’m not positive about that.
Those two keyboards use the same Tai Hao double-shot ABS keycaps. The Omnikey is a very solid case, with a metal backplate, whereas the FK-2001 is pretty flimsy. I think the Omnikey might be NKRO, but I’m not positive about that.
The trouble with genuine complicated Alps is that so many keyboards have really out-of-condition switches.
Is this something that can be corrected once I have the board, or do I need to be careful when shopping used ones to make sure I don't get a bad one?Well, sometimes the switches are dirty/gritty inside. To fix that, you can desolder all the switches, take them all apart, clean the switch housings (I think the best way would probably be with ultrasonic cleaner, but blasting them with a datavac and then stirring them around in some soap & water might work okay if they aren’t in too bad shape), and add some lubricant before putting them back together.
Both. It helps if you get a good board, but if a few switches aren't great, it's not too hard to repair them. I'll be doing a video tutorial soon on how to clean, maintain and restore Alps switches soon. If switches are actually fried, you'll need to replace them, but if the keyboard is tested to work that shouldn't be the case.Quote from: Daniel BeardsmoreThe trouble with genuine complicated Alps is that so many keyboards have really out-of-condition switches.
Is this something that can be corrected once I have the board, or do I need to be careful when shopping used ones to make sure I don't get a bad one?
Those two keyboards use the same Tai Hao double-shot ABS keycaps. The Omnikey is a very solid case, with a metal backplate, whereas the FK-2001 is pretty flimsy. I think the Omnikey might be NKRO, but I’m not positive about that.
The OmniKey 102 has the same layout actually (101 is ANSI). I even prefer that layout to either ANSI or ISO, personally. But given the choice between a FK-2001 and an OmniKey, the choice is easy, really xD .Quote from: jacobolusThose two keyboards use the same Tai Hao double-shot ABS keycaps. The Omnikey is a very solid case, with a metal backplate, whereas the FK-2001 is pretty flimsy. I think the Omnikey might be NKRO, but I’m not positive about that.
Also I took a closer look at a picture of a FK-2001 and it has a non-standard layout: tall enter key, short right shift, and a backslash next to right shift:Show Image(http://escrapohio.com/ebaypictures/1998-1.JPG)
That's one more reason for me to prefer an Omnikey.
See, a source told me more recently that Forward did in fact sell the SKBM tooling to Datacomp, and we know that Datacomp are selling Alps clone switches, but Datacomp have utterly refused to talk to me, and while people have subsequently observed their products at trade fairs (including a brochure showing the switch internals), all they've come back with is pathetic low-resolution photos (like we're still in the 90s when digital cameras used serial ports and floppy diskettes) so I can't tell for certain whether Datacomp switches are still SKBM (tentatively they appeared that way).
See, a source told me more recently that Forward did in fact sell the SKBM tooling to Datacomp, and we know that Datacomp are selling Alps clone switches, but Datacomp have utterly refused to talk to me,
I heard from a guy recently who said they offered to send him some samples, and he was asking how I thought Forward SKBM switches compared to Matias clicky switches.
Matias: do you have any comments about the differences between your switches and the Forward/Fuhua switches you were using previously?
Right, so it would be fair to say that SKBL/SKBM terminated in 2012, and that Datacomp switches are not the same product.
(My feeling is that Forward always made SKBL/SKBM, as I think they were one of the overflow manufacturers for SKCL/SKCM, probably all the badly-moulded ones :)
I'm confused as to why Datacomp would feel the need to create all new tooling when they could just buy in from Tai-Hao, Kwanda, Xiang Min, Himake, the YH/B guys and likely others. They're all the same shape so it's not like you're tied to a single supplier either.
There's a suggestion here that SKBL/SKBM was discontinued at least in part because the tooling was worn out, since if the tooling was still any good, Datacomp would be using it as-is instead of trying to recreate it.
BTW, "dissuades his customers" — all the keycaps in Taiwan come from one dude in a shed? :)
<Pretend Quote Works>Don't know if Fuhua ever made SKCL/SKCM, but I suspect not. We only ever bought SKBL/SKBM from them.</Pretend Quote Works>
There's a lot of very interesting SKCM switches that are far below the expected standard of Japanese manufacturing. There's the batch with all the numbering missing, whose shells ended up being used to make fake Alps switches (Simplified Alps Type III). There's also the "scrawly" switches. According to alps.tw, these are all genuine switches:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Alps_SKCM_White_--_mould_variations.jpg
2 and 4 have the "fat" Alps logo associated with simplified Alps, instead of Alps Japan's high-grade mould production.
It appears that Alps had overflow manufacturing, presumably with Gold Star Alps (Korea) and Forward. It might be that the contact assemblies were shipped out from Japan and the plastic moulding and final assembly was carried out abroad. One suggestion is that it allowed Alps to sell switches to people like Ortek and Focus a lot more cheaply.
Just a theory though.