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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Novus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:02:04

Title: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Novus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:02:04
Does having one of those smaller right side shift buttons mess you up when typing?
I'm talking about the layouts where they reduce the size of the shift to accommodate the arrow keys - usually the layout you get on the 84 style compact keyboards.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

I just can't get used to it  :(
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:06:26
I bet you could take that key away entirely and I wouldn't notice for weeks.

So no.  :P
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:07:38
I don't think I've ever used right shift, so like Hoff, it wouldn't mess me up.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Sent on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:07:40
All my boards have short right shift and I barely ever use it so...nope.  Doesn't mess me up, at all.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:09:16
Small left shift annoyed me a bit at first when I was getting used to ISO, but I don't really notice much anymore, and switch between ANSI and ISO regularly without issue...

Right shift? What's a "right shift"?
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: MGH on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:13:30
I never use the right shift :-X
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:18:22
I mistype just after having swapped keyboards with different layouts. Then I get used to it. And then I mistype the next time I swap keyboards. And so on ...
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Nai_Calus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:19:58
I don't think I've ever used the right shift key, so I wouldn't even notice if the board completely failed to have one.

In fact this post made me go press it a few times just so it wouldn't feel so lonely. It and right windows, menu, and right control are used about as much as pause and scroll lock by me, i.e. not at all.

Poor unloved right shift. (I occasionally use US International if I feel the need to üsé á iöt óf äccented characters, so once in a great while I do use right alt as altgr, but otherwise, the lower right corner of my keyboard doesn't exist.)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:27:38
I never use the right shift :-X
+1
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:29:26
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:32:21
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:33:03
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

Oh
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:33:14
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

****!
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:33:25
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

My
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:33:35
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

posts
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:33:50
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

count?
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Tyrosh22 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:36:51
I guess it would **** me up, as I do use the right shift key... :D
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:36:59
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

count?


indeed they do
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: demik on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:39:38
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

Oh

So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

****!

So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

My

So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

posts

So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

hey, it's in the keyboards sub... which means posts count :))

count?

this is why i need to get off post reporting time out.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:42:05
this is why i need to get off post reporting time out.

what is that anyways? i've been wondering but never thought to ask anyone...
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:43:42
this is why i need to get off post reporting time out.

snitch
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: demik on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:44:32
this is why i need to get off post reporting time out.

what is that anyways? i've been wondering but never thought to ask anyone...

exactly what it sounds like

this is why i need to get off post reporting time out.

snitch

i get warned/banned for minimal **** compared to your spamming, so i want the mods to do their job right.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Lain1911 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:44:43
Never use +1
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: naasfu on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:46:25
TIL I only use right shift for typing, and left shift only for WoW. 
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: slickmamba on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:46:25
so many never users.... I use both, but it never bothers me on the hhkb. 
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:48:15
TIL I only use right shift for typing, and left shift only for WoW. 

Same. Lshift is for gaming - Rshift is for typing
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: swathe on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:48:32
I think every right shift on any keyboard I've ever owned has probably never been used lol
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: naasfu on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:49:47
TIL I only use right shift for typing, and left shift only for WoW. 

Same. Lshift is for gaming - Rshift is for typing

right on, my kindred noisy brother.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:51:13
Do you type or do you game?  I tend to use both shift keys when I am typing.  I do find that having the right shift key in the right place is okay, it's just the other keys that shouldn't be there that are.  I never liked the small left shift key at all. 
Any time there is a key in a place it shouldn't be will be a mess.  Non-standard layouts are always going to do that to you until you get used to them.  So yes I do use the right shift and if it were in a different row or out of place, I would be stumbling on it too.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:52:16
i get warned/banned for minimal **** compared to your spamming, so i want the mods to do their job right.

Considering your last ban/mute of any sort was your big one, I don't feel like that's the case.

On topic, not at all. I think I've used the right shift on both my race 2 and hhkb once.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Novus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 19:57:51
So the1onewolf threads are basically tp4 threads that actually talk about keyboards?

But basically tp4 threads... not that there's anything wrong with that.

Rude.
First of all, the quality of my threads are consistent with the rest of this forum.
Second of all, I don't use those onion, leeks and smiley faces.
Third, okay yea fine you're basically right.

Do you type or do you game?  I tend to use both shift keys when I am typing.  I do find that having the right shift key in the right place is okay, it's just the other keys that shouldn't be there that are.  I never liked the small left shift key at all. 
Any time there is a key in a place it shouldn't be will be a mess.  Non-standard layouts are always going to do that to you until you get used to them.  Sp yes I do use the right shift and if it were in a different row or out of place, I would be stumbling on it too.

I touch type, so that's part of my difficulty because I'll just fumble the shift key and hit the arrow.
The "right" way to type or at least the way you're taught is to use both shift keys. You use the opposite hand to hit the shift key for whatever letter your other hand is hitting to capitalize it.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Novus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 20:03:53
i get warned/banned for minimal **** compared to your spamming, so i want the mods to do their job right.

Considering your last ban/mute of any sort was your big one, I don't feel like that's the case.

On topic, not at all. I think I've used the right shift on both my race 2 and hhkb once.

Well you just saw noistyturtle purposely spam.
Did you give him a warning?

You guys do have a big issue with enforcing your mutes and bans unilaterally though. You rely too much on reports because our posts can quite annoying at times but you don't enforce the rules when you see them being broken in front of you.
You're also the one that used your mod abilities to get on a clack list, so you really don't have much integrity.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Dee1 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 20:12:51
I use the right shift key about 90% of the time. The smaller size for it on compact layouts does not bother me at all. :)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: demik on Wed, 04 February 2015, 20:14:27
i get warned/banned for minimal **** compared to your spamming, so i want the mods to do their job right.

Considering your last ban/mute of any sort was your big one, I don't feel like that's the case.

On topic, not at all. I think I've used the right shift on both my race 2 and hhkb once.

Well you just saw noistyturtle purposely spam.
Did you give him a warning?

You guys do have a big issue with enforcing your mutes and bans unilaterally though. You rely too much on reports because our posts can quite annoying at times but you don't enforce the rules when you see them being broken in front of you.
You're also the one that used your mod abilities to get on a clack list, so you really don't have much integrity.


ofc they won't warn. especially now that you've brought it up that they haven't warned him. they don't like being told what to do, but are fine with editing and deleting your posts if they see fit.

woman in a bikini? edited. hitler avy? no biggie. (sorry pho, nothing against you)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 20:22:56

I touch type, so that's part of my difficulty because I'll just fumble the shift key and hit the arrow.
The "right" way to type or at least the way you're taught is to use both shift keys. You use the opposite hand to hit the shift key for whatever letter your other hand is hitting to capitalize it.

I know exactly what you mean and yes I responded.  A lot of people here touch type.  If you have a keyboard that has a key in the wrong place it is very awkward to type.  You might want to use a different keyboard, or adjust to the one you are using.  I like standard layouts for that reason alone.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 04 February 2015, 20:36:22
i get warned/banned for minimal **** compared to your spamming, so i want the mods to do their job right.

Considering your last ban/mute of any sort was your big one, I don't feel like that's the case.

On topic, not at all. I think I've used the right shift on both my race 2 and hhkb once.

Well you just saw noistyturtle purposely spam.
Did you give him a warning?

My profile is already at Threat Level Midnight
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Wed, 04 February 2015, 21:19:38
Does having one of those smaller right side shift buttons mess you up when typing?
I'm talking about the layouts where they reduce the size of the shift to accommodate the arrow keys - usually the layout you get on the 84 style compact keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

I just can't get used to it  :(


I never even use that key, **** that key.
Using that key is like using ctrl in the default position, IT'S NOT RIGHT.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: blighty on Wed, 04 February 2015, 21:34:14
Does having one of those smaller right side shift buttons mess you up when typing?
I'm talking about the layouts where they reduce the size of the shift to accommodate the arrow keys - usually the layout you get on the 84 style compact keyboards.


I just can't get used to it  :(

I use boards with the 1.75u right shift, and the smaller key does mess me up sometimes when I'm typing out things in a hurry.  I'm debating putting a full size right shift on my next build just to be different.  I suppose I can put the up arrow on the FN layer (after all, the shift does already have an arrow on it).
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: bueller on Wed, 04 February 2015, 21:35:28
Short right shift all the way! I turn the right shift and the three mods below it into a nav cluster on my 60's so I like the symmetry the 1.75 key provides.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 21:43:38
I guess it would **** me up, as I do use the right shift key... :D
I doubt it. Where on the right shift key do you press? The OP of this thread is the first person who I’ve ever heard complain about this, and I know a bunch of people who use both shifts evenly or mostly use right shift, and have keyboards with 1.75u right shifts. Personally I never press even halfway over on the right shift. Even 1u size would probably be somewhat okay, but 1.75 is more than wide enough. The bigger problem with right shift is that it’s too far away.

I think the best would be to have both shift keys be ~1.5–2 units wide, and the right shift moved closer in by a key (basically put right shift where / is on a standard ANSI board).

On ANSI, the right shift is too far away and much too big. The left shift is in a good spot and a bit too big.

On ISO, both shifts are too far away, and the right shift is much too big, while the left shift is slightly smaller than I’d prefer. ISO is designed to be close to unusable for people with small hands.

A better solution entirely is to put shift on a thumb key, or nearer to the home pinky position, along the lines of:
(http://i.imgur.com/agK3Fmr.png)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: ideus on Wed, 04 February 2015, 21:46:26
I guess it would **** me up, as I do use the right shift key... :D
I doubt it. Where on the right shift key do you press? The OP of this thread is the first person who I�ve ever heard complain about this, and I know a bunch of people who use both shifts evenly or mostly use right shift, and have keyboards with 1.75u right shifts. Personally I never press even halfway over on the right shift. Even 1u size would probably be somewhat okay, but 1.75 is more than wide enough. The bigger problem with right shift is that it�s too far away.

I think the best would be to have both shift keys be ~1.5�2 units wide, and the right shift moved closer in by a key (basically put right shift where / is on a standard ANSI board).

On ANSI, the right shift is too far away and much too big. The left shift is in a good spot and a bit too big.

On ISO, both shifts are too far away, and the right shift is much too big, while the left shift is slightly smaller than I�d prefer. ISO is designed to be close to unusable for people with small hands.

A better solution entirely is to put shift on a thumb key, or nearer to the home pinky position, along the lines of:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/agK3Fmr.png)


As Leonardo said: Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Drop some keys and let your simplified layout shine.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Ius on Wed, 04 February 2015, 22:06:47
I recently discovered the right shift key. It was surprisingly intuitive to adjust to (go figure!). I can't believe I used to type "!" and "Q" with my left hand only  :p
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 04 February 2015, 23:39:33
oh yeah it totally does especially the night shifts
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: zshang on Thu, 05 February 2015, 00:09:58
LOL. Have you ever tried Filco Minila XDDDDDDD
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:14:36
As Leonardo said: Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Drop some keys and let your simplified layout shine.
Well, the goal of that mockup was to preserve basically 1:1 the existing keys on a TKL board, just moved into better spots. For myself, I’d actually drop a bunch of keys and make something in a symmetrical, column-staggered layout.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Bomble on Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:21:05
It doesn't really bother me on my HHKB, I rarely use it, and if I ever do I press it on the very far left. I could probably also be just fine with a 1u right shift, it would just feel weird.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: daerid on Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:38:27
That wouldn't bother me at all. A smaller left shift? That's just cray-cray
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:58:40
(http://img01.cp.aliimg.com/imgextra/i2/225676161/T2eI3eXc4XXXXXXXXX_!!225676161.jpg)

after almost a year of use, i'm still not used to the right shift :>
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 05 February 2015, 02:17:54
Some very interesting posts here.

I grew up with ISO and didn't like the small LEFT Shift, so I got used to using Right Shift exclusively. I never use Left Shift.


I find short Right Shift to be perfectly fine, since I always press it on the inside area, near to /?. I have been using a KBT Pure for quite a while and also my Writer's Portable prototype and am perfectly happy with a 1x size Right Shift.

@Bucake, the bottom 2 rows on that board are all kinds of wrong. The entire 'Z' row is too far left, so I'd have trouble just typing. The position of the inside edge of the Right Shift would throw me off there, not the size.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 05 February 2015, 02:38:26
My main board is using 1.75u Rshift + 1u Fn key (HHKB style), I like it much more like this.
On a 2.75u Rshift, I'm pressing in the middle of the key or the left part of it, so It changes nothing to me.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 05 February 2015, 03:20:31
I use the right shift PRIMARILY actually! Even a capital A I would do with the right shift. I only use left shift as "run" in many games.

I'm not sure if it would bother me to have a small right shift though, I don't think I've ever had a board with one. Have had one where it was jammed into the arrow keys, but that was fine.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: sidel on Thu, 05 February 2015, 03:43:48
I use right shift nearly exclusively, but I honestly don't know if it would bother me because (now that I'm paying attention to it) I don't tend to hit the key very far in.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 05 February 2015, 15:12:35
There is some crap Apple-lookalike compact keyboard that has ANSI layout keys but with ISO signals. To adjust for there not being an additional key between left Shift and Z (Backslash in UK, < > in DE,IT,NO,SF,DK,etc.), the left Shift key had been sacrificed to become that key.
I had to type on this keyboard at one time, and it was ridiculously annoying ...
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 05 February 2015, 15:18:28
I use the right shift PRIMARILY actually! Even a capital A I would do with the right shift.
If typing “properly” (which is to say, according to technique commonly taught in books/schools), everyone is supposed to use the right shift for capital A. The keys on the right hand (YUIOPHJKLNM) are the ones that should take left-pinky shift.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: wordfool on Thu, 05 February 2015, 20:30:53
I use the left shift almost exclusively when typing so the tiny r-shift on my Minila is not a huge deal. But I do tend to use the right shift when coding or using shortcut keys in applications, and that's when it can get a bit annoying. For the same reason I miss the right control key.

It's why I'm desperate to get hold of the Varmillo bluetooth clone of the Leopold 660. Big r-shift and r-control :)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 05 February 2015, 21:08:13
What are you kids talking about?
I use right shift every time I need to capitalize a key on the left hand typing layout (QWERT, ASDFG, ZXCVB), as that's how we were taught to touch type in the good old days.
Doesn't EVERY touch typist use the right shift?
Do people not know how to touch type anymore?

Just how old are you people?
I wouldn't use a keyboard without a right shift key even if it were GIVEN to me and even if it were RGB, made by Ducky, with Romer-G perfect backlighting.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 05 February 2015, 21:52:04
What are you kids talking about?
I use right shift every time I need to capitalize a key on the left hand typing layout (QWERT, ASDFG, ZXCVB), as that's how we were taught to touch type in the good old days.
Doesn't EVERY touch typist use the right shift?
Do people not know how to touch type anymore?

Just how old are you people?
I wouldn't use a keyboard without a right shift key even if it were GIVEN to me and even if it were RGB, made by Ducky, with Romer-G perfect backlighting.

Well hello to you too.   :p

And FTR, I know plenty of older people that can't even pretend to touch type.  But generalizations are fun.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 05 February 2015, 21:52:54
Doesn't EVERY touch typist use the right shift?
Obviously not. As one example, Sean Wrona, one of the fastest typists in the world, mostly eschews the shift keys altogether and just presses caps lock before and after each capitalized letter.

Touch typing techniques are highly variable. For example, I typically use the right shift, even for letters on my right hand (maybe 70–80% of the time, with no intentional pattern), reserving the left shift mostly when I need to shift a number (7–0) or symbol key, or when typing keyboard shortcuts. By contrast, my wife basically never uses right shift at all.

Quote
Do people not know how to touch type anymore?
Well, first, most people don’t know how to touch type. But second, there’s nothing inherently wrong with developing a personal not-by-the-book technique. My personal feeling is that several aspects of “standard” technique are suboptimal, or in some cases actively harmful (i.e. lead to RSI).

Quote
Just how old are you people?
I’m 29, and I was never formally trained to type. Though I did teach myself in a fairly deliberate way in about 5th grade.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: demik on Thu, 05 February 2015, 21:59:59
no, it does not. i use both shifts perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: derezzed on Thu, 05 February 2015, 22:00:25
I don't have small shift keys but, when I'm typing, I only hit the inside edge of the shift keys and I have large hands.  The only time I use the outside edges of the shift keys is when I'm gaming with the left shift, or using right shift with the navigation keys (although, I could easily adapt to using the left shift with the navigation keys if the right shift was shortened to 1u).
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 05 February 2015, 22:00:52
I learned to touch type out of necessity because of AOL instant messenger so I have terrible technique, I don't really follow the proper way of touch-typing at all. You could completely remove the right shift key and I would never notice :P

This is from one of my newer desktops:
(http://i.imgur.com/DG29tFz.png)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 05 February 2015, 22:00:52
I don't know.

Back in the early 1980's, we used IBM Selectric II's in typing class and that's how we were taught.
I don't remember any other method of touch typing.  Maybe people came up with some other stuff...I really don't know.  I just wanted to get my work done.
Originally before the school got those, they had some lever typewriters that would always get stuck.

I still remember the good old mechanical smell of warmed up Selectric II's.
And boy they felt GOOD to type on.

The IBM Model F was based on replicating that selectric II typing feel.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: spiceBar on Thu, 05 February 2015, 23:33:48
Does having one of those smaller right side shift buttons mess you up when typing?
I'm talking about the layouts where they reduce the size of the shift to accommodate the arrow keys - usually the layout you get on the 84 style compact keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

I just can't get used to it  :(

A reduced right Shift like on your pictures is OK (FC660C, ...).

A right Shift reduced to 1x is unusable (Minila...).

I do use the right Shift. I use it 7.5 times less than the left Shift, but I use it. In case you wonder, I know it is precisely 7.5 times less because my computer keeps statistics about my keyboard and mouse usage.

A side note: I converted to ANSI (from ISO) because I wanted a larger left Shift.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Nai_Calus on Thu, 05 February 2015, 23:37:06
What are you kids talking about?

Hip kid stuff, you wouldn't understand.

Quote
I use right shift every time I need to capitalize a key on the left hand typing layout (QWERT, ASDFG, ZXCVB), as that's how we were taught to touch type in the good old days.

The good old days? They still teach that.

Quote
Doesn't EVERY touch typist use the right shift?

This entire thread basically proves they don't.

Quote
Do people not know how to touch type anymore?

Anymore? I know less than a dozen people over the age of 40 who have any idea what the heck they're even doing with a keyboard. My mother more or less knows qwerty and my dad touch types dvorak. Everyone else I encounter who wasn't a teacher in my tech classes in college sits there and pecks at the keys with two fingers. It's the kids who know how to type. :P

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Just how old are you people?

31.

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I wouldn't use a keyboard without a right shift key even if it were GIVEN to me and even if it were RGB, made by Ducky, with Romer-G perfect backlighting.

Well, I'll take it then. :P Sounds like a fun keyboard.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: neverused on Thu, 05 February 2015, 23:52:30
I use it only to type "L" every other time I use the left shift.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 06 February 2015, 14:00:30
Nope, not unless they have done something retarded like put the ? key on the right of shift... But I don't use right shift much anyway. I used keyboard to game far before I learned to type and have a very high left hand dominance when using the keyboard. My touch typing is way far from 'proper'. My GH60 has a locking switch on the right shift actually, shift lock literally. Using it normally can be a bit awkward. It's possible to actuate it without locking but it's not easy to do all the time.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Roibhilin on Sat, 07 February 2015, 09:11:12
i like small Rshifts if there's a fn key replacing some of it
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Sat, 07 February 2015, 10:30:14
I think I rely heaviliy on the right shift sometimes. I used to only use the left shift and then I thought when I learned to touch type that you were supposed to alternate which shift you used depending on what hand was typing. Now im just stuck using both but the short shift on my mini really isnt a problem  :p
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 07 February 2015, 11:07:58
I don't think I ever use the right shift, though that may be a product of my less-than-exemplary typing form. The biggest problem with boards that have short right shifts is finding new cap sets
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Tyrosh22 on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:24:16
I'd rather stick to the standard right shift even if I did not use it because of this:

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author=hwood34 link=topic=68453.msg1631394#msg1631394 date=1423328878]
The biggest problem with boards that have short right shifts is finding new cap sets

Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: mashby on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:34:24
I'm fine with it being a little bit shorter, like what's on the KBT Pure (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=200), but if it gets too short, I find it unusable.

When I first got back into mechanical keyboards, I bought the KBT Race (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=145). It was smaller than a Tenkeyless, but not as small as a 60%. I thought it was a happy medium. Unfortunately, the right shift did me in. I kept hitting the arrow key.

The right shift on the Race is 1.25x and the Pure is 1.75x, so I guess I'm saying that anything smaller than 1.75x is too small for me.

Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:39:01
I'm fine with it being a little bit shorter, like what's on the KBT Pure (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=200), but if it gets too short, I find it unusable.

When I first got back into mechanical keyboards, I bought the KBT Race (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=145). It was smaller than a Tenkeyless, but not as small as a 60%. I thought it was a happy medium. Unfortunately, the right shift did me in. I kept hitting the arrow key.

The right shift on the Race is 1.25x and the Pure is 1.75x, so I guess I'm saying that anything smaller than 1.75x is too small for me.
Nice to see you back Mashby.  :)
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: mashby on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:40:06
Nice to see you back Mashby.  :)

Thanks Flyersfan1!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Bromono on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:51:12
what is the official size of the right short shift?
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: ideus on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:53:52
There is no official size for a right short shift key. But 1.75u is common.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Sygaldry on Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:56:55
1.75u shift is best shift.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Bromono on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:03:23
1.75u shift is best shift.

So hard to fidn though =(
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: mashby on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:30:48
1.75u shift is best shift.

So hard to fidn though =(

That's why you always buy a Tsangan kit.  :p
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:34:49
I use Right Shift much more than Left Shift. On most keyboards, the 2.75x Right Shift is much too large, but the 1.00x Right Shift on a few keyboards is much too small. I am okay with a Right Shift that is between 1.25x and 1.75x. For example, my HHKB Pro 2 has a 1.75x Right Shift with a 1.00x Fn key to the right of Right Shift; this is an ideal arrangement for me.
Title: Re: Does a small right shift mess you up?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:35:59
I learned that I really need it on the JD40 with all the layers. So I suppose the smaller boards like 40% and 60%, I'd need it...even if it's small.