Same. IMO it is kind of pointless, and could have been done with an LED or 2.Show Image(https://d3jqoivu6qpygv.cloudfront.net/img_comment/N22N44_20150329_010222_9YPJ5.png)
The LCD has piqued my interest.
The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though
Oh really? That's pretty cool then.The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though
Yeah LEDs would have been just fine for layer info or other stuff like that.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB
Oh really? That's pretty cool then.The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though
Yeah LEDs would have been just fine for layer info or other stuff like that.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB
I really, really wish they'd have taken this opportunity to move the thumb clusters in slightly.
I want an ALPS plate...
This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.
I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.
....This...I got a set of blue/white cables on their way from Pexon :D. Only had my current ergodox for a few weeks and don't see enough additions in this new version to warrant getting the new model unless I'm missing something. Maybe if we were talking about a completely wireless option I guess (by completely I mean wireless comminication between halves AND between the pc/laptop...hey I can dream can't I)...
The USB 3.0 will probably waste the fancy cables everyone have for their ErgoDox's, so there's that, Pexon should start producing USB 3.0 cables too :)
...
Edit: the drop link: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox
This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.
I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.
i might can be convinced to buy said ergodox for really cheap :P
I will add my opinions though that
1. they really missed out a chance to move the thumb cluster just so slightly closer (even if it meant removing a single key). personally the current arrangement never bothered me but like 50% of people on geekhack i would say have complained about the placement. too big to ignore.
2. i love the interconnect system, its really cool the ability to either connect to each other and have cross-fn key or do seperate, **** TRRS SO MUCH
3. MD and infinity really need to give some example uses of the LED screens, i personally don't find them to be ugly but i want to see example uses of them. If they are not backlit, that would be lame.
4. The lack of full hand sucks, full hand is great if you want to tent and don't have something like the ergodock, as a long time ergodox user, tenting is the proper way to use an ergodox.
5. overall i love the way it looks and i love SMD controller, will look less like something that will get me pulled at a TSA checkpoint in which the teensy with its hanging wires has got me pulledThis has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.
I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.
i might can be convinced to buy said ergodox for really cheap :P
:)
Just to let you guys know, the LCD is backlit (RGB colors) and we should have the full hand option by the end of the drop. And yes, you will be able to change your order to a full hand if you already ordered the standard and want to change it once that goes live.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCBNot really. That was true only for the regular columns, and only because of a happy accident. All keys would be offset from their regular positions.
If you are the type of person that requires a palm/wrist rest, tenting is more difficult without full hand, with full hand you just slap a fair of kinesis freestyle tent adapters on the bottom and you are ready to go.I highly recommend against typing with your hand resting on the acrylic sheet of the full-hand Ergodox (resting it there while not actively typing is fine). If you absolutely need some kind of palmrest while typing (you probably don’t, if you move the keyboard to a more convenient spot closer to your body, raise your chair / lower your desk, and tilt the keyboard properly), I recommend getting something about a half inch taller than the acrylic sheet on the full-hand ergodox, or than a typical palmrest like a Griffiti or whatever.
If you are the type of person that requires a palm/wrist rest, tenting is more difficult without full hand, with full hand you just slap a fair of kinesis freestyle tent adapters on the bottom and you are ready to go.I highly recommend against typing with your hand resting on the acrylic sheet of the full-hand Ergodox (resting it there while not actively typing is fine). If you absolutely need some kind of palmrest while typing (you probably don�t, if you move the keyboard to a more convenient spot closer to your body, raise your chair / lower your desk, and tilt the keyboard properly), I recommend getting something about a half inch taller than the acrylic sheet on the full-hand ergodox, or than a typical palmrest like a Griffiti or whatever.
Similarly, I highly recommend against resting your palms on the bottom half of a laptop while typing.
The old ErgoDox supported PCB-mounting and had a few layout options - I wonder if they are still there or if they have been removed completely.I suppose I got that answered... :(
It looks to me like they've made some improvements. Most notable to me is the various switch options. As a first generation ErgoDox user, I strongly agree with the other voices who were disappointed that the thumb cluster wasn't improved. I'm happy with my old ErgoDox but I'm not even sure how I configured 4 of the thumb keys because they aren't well placed and I never use them. I'm sure that buyers will be happy with the new Dox, I just think this is a missed opportunity.
I still have secrets around my roadmap (can't spoil the surprises :D), but I don't like keeping secrets just to keep secrets.You have secrets?!?!
You have secrets?!?!
I did entertain the possibility of doing a wireless interconnect. But I'm not ready to work on battery powered things yet (as well as FCC certs).That'd be an instant cop...the first thing I did before buying my first was look for a bluetooth/wireless plugs/add-on I could use.
Bluetooth is on my roadmap, but not till Fall at the earliest
Also, all of those fancy USB cables will work from the first keyboard to the computer. You don't need to use a USB 3.0 cable. The interconnect will need one (if you want to use it).
Wireless is super overrated IMO. Adds a lot of physical/electrical complexity (now you need batteries, some battery charging electronics, the wireless controllers themselves, ...), increases latency, and makes the programming a whole lot more complicated (meaning you get stuck with whatever firmware someone makes for it, because the 3 alternative open source keyboard firmware implementations aren’t going to bother implementing stuff for one specific board, and meaning if you decide you want to fiddle with the firmware yourself you now have a lot of extra complexity to wade though), requires a bunch of extra UI to figure out how to match the keyboard sections up that you care about, configure how they’ll work, and decide what to do when one or more parts goes offline, etc., for pretty marginal benefits. Then you need to consider whether anyone with an antenna nearby can listen in on your keystrokes; to do this properly you probably need to encrypt everything, yet another layer of complexity.Perfectly understandable. Right now I just tuck the trrs cable behind my laptop with the usb to the side. I have a wireless mouse so with the exception of the Ethernet and monitor cables here and there, my ergodox or 60% board cables are the only ones taking up space on my work desk. Wireless dongle between halves could be overkill (but cool as **** :cool:) but at the very least a wireless path to the pc would allow for some flexibility of setup....I've still been trying to figure out low cost ways to mount them to my chair ;D.
Overall, wireless makes everything more expensive and less hobbyist friendly.
I really liked the idea of the Ergodox when I first saw it. I really love my Kinesis Advantage and I figured the Ergodox would have a very similar feel to it. But for me it just didn't feel like that at all. I gave my Ergodox a couple of weeks to try to get used to it, but because I can't afford another Ergo to keep at the office, I just never really was able to get used to it.Don’t worry, you’re not alone. For me, the thumb section is about 50% of the problem, and the amount of stagger between columns is the other 50% (on a flat keyboard you need more stagger between columns, whereas on the Maltron or Kinesis Advantage there’s a vertical step between columns instead; the Ergodox isn’t aggressive enough for my taste). It’s IMO especially bad if using uniform (e.g. DSA) keycaps.
Because it's not a secret, this is the Bluetooth module I'm currently looking at: http://www.rfdigital.com/product/rfd22301-rfduino-ble-smt/ (http://www.rfdigital.com/product/rfd22301-rfduino-ble-smt/).
One of the big musts for me is NKRO over Bluetooth (cross-platform), so that may delay official support.
For a wireless interconnect, I probably wouldn't use Bluetooth. Would probably be something like ZigBee.
I’m hoping I can convince MassDrop to put out a similar keyboard with designs along the lines of these:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pvweFHp.png)
(see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62848)
Basically, they wanted to keep the existing physical layout for their first version where they were trying to modify several other things (screens, new way of handling split halves, new case construction, new controller, etc.).
I’m personally slightly disappointed that a bunch more people may end up with keyboards that don’t suit them as well as a modified design would, but I understand MassDrop’s reasoning.
The traces on that PCB look awful.
The traces on that PCB look awful.
I think any PCB that serves its function is beautiful.
Edit: Actually, I do notice that it doesn't support PCB-mount stabilizers. That's actually a bummer for me because I love the feeling of the pcb-mount stabs on my Ergodox. I didn't like the feeling of the 2u thumbswitches without stabs. Guess now I gotta find some plate-mount cherry stabs from somewhere. So yeah, awful pcb. ;D
Everyone seems to be bashing the Ergodox layout, but I really like it. I find it very easy to use three of the thumbkeys on each side, the others may be a bit harder to find but I put keys that I don't use much on there.Hey, that’s fine! If it works for you, then go for it.
I would never want 2u keycaps with no stabs that is just asking for trouble. We are looking in to shipping stabs with the units.Most ErgoDoxen were built without stabs because of errors in the layered case design, but that is not much of a problem because of how you press the keys. Kinesis Advantage 2u keys do not have stabs either.
I tried using an Ergodox for a couple months, but the thumb section drove me crazy, prompting me to start prototyping alternatives.You can't do my thumb key mod on the ErgoDox Infinity.. :(
Perhaps the Ergodox’s greatest contribution is that it’s good enough to be appealing, but obviously flawed enough to compel people to fix it.
Agreed. What I think Jac meant was that its modularity and "hackability" lent well to further customization by intrepid geeks who may have found its ergonomic compromises a bit lacking.Perhaps the Ergodox’s greatest contribution is that it’s good enough to be appealing, but obviously flawed enough to compel people to fix it.
Seems a bit harsh to call the Ergodox "obviously flawed".
“Flawed” in the sense that, while the design works well for some people, it’s unusable for many others, even after they give it a serious try for a few months. “Obvious” is in the eye of the beholder. I think many of the problems are obvious, if you think about it from a hand anatomy perspective, and start looking around at people’s hands and the way they use them while typing. For someone who hasn’t thought much about it, the design tradeoffs are probably somewhat harder to analyze. Likewise, for someone who finds the Ergodox to perfect match their preferences, understanding the problems other people have with it might be difficult.Perhaps the Ergodox’s greatest contribution is that it’s good enough to be appealing, but obviously flawed enough to compel people to fix it.
Seems a bit harsh to call the Ergodox "obviously flawed". It's obvious that some design compromises were made, eg flat for ease of manufacture and lower price, but any successful product is a compromise.
You can't do my thumb key mod on the ErgoDox Infinity.. :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0GXwpEj.jpg)
Perhaps the Ergodox’s greatest contribution is that it’s good enough to be appealing, but obviously flawed enough to compel people to fix it.
I'm thinking whether I should buy this Infinity Dox. I still have an original Dox only partly assembled.
Or is there more cool features and upgrades on an even more advanced Dox coming later this year?
Struggling whether to join or not. :(
I'm thinking whether I should buy this Infinity Dox. I still have an original Dox only partly assembled.
Or is there more cool features and upgrades on an even more advanced Dox coming later this year?
Struggling whether to join or not. :(
I'm thinking whether I should buy this Infinity Dox. I still have an original Dox only partly assembled.
Or is there more cool features and upgrades on an even more advanced Dox coming later this year?
Struggling whether to join or not. :(
I'd finish my first dox and test it to make sure that I like it before buying another, if I was in your situation...
Personally, I don't think it's a huge upgrade on the original. Backlighting could be nice, but the lcd is gimmicky, and I'm slightly nervous about the cpu change, since the TMK firmware that I'm using and happy with atm won't work AFAIK. It is a good move to get rid of the TRRS cable.
But the physical layout is the same, so really in use I'd say it'll be pretty much the same (I hope).
I did read somewhere that bluetooth may be in the works for the future. But I actually think bluetooth/wireless is a negative TBH. Extra complexity for no actual gain. Ergodox is not going to be a good portable keyboard. Too big and the two halves would flop around and be a hassle. Plus battery troubles as well.
I'm thinking whether I should buy this Infinity Dox. I still have an original Dox only partly assembled.
Or is there more cool features and upgrades on an even more advanced Dox coming later this year?
Struggling whether to join or not. :(
Were the lack of an LCD display and the TRRS connection the only things holding you back on your first 'Dox? Because those are the major differences. I'd include firmware in that but it sounds like you never made it that far. Otherwise I don't see why you'd invest in the Infinity if you never gave the original 'Dox a fair shake. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that the plate doesn't have the cutouts so you can open the switches on the dox.
If you have a TECK, that's pretty similar to an ergodox, although much more limited in layer setup and no thumbkeys. If you like the TECK, there's a good chance you'll like the ergodox. I use a TECK at work and an ergodox at home. I like the ergodox better though.
I use TMK firmware on my dox so NKRO works, and I have layers set up to work nicely with Plover for stenography, and dvorak otherwise. But it says on the massdrop description for the infinity ergodox that NKRO will work, so I suspect (hope?) that I can set it up to work pretty much the same.
So yeah, buy it.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that the plate doesn't have the cutouts so you can open the switches on the dox.
If you have a TECK, that's pretty similar to an ergodox, although much more limited in layer setup and no thumbkeys. If you like the TECK, there's a good chance you'll like the ergodox. I use a TECK at work and an ergodox at home. I like the ergodox better though.
I use TMK firmware on my dox so NKRO works, and I have layers set up to work nicely with Plover for stenography, and dvorak otherwise. But it says on the massdrop description for the infinity ergodox that NKRO will work, so I suspect (hope?) that I can set it up to work pretty much the same.
So yeah, buy it.
Just out of curiosity, what is the issue with the TRRS cable? It seems like a pretty standard connection, cheap connectors, easy to work with, and somewhat easy to buy cables off the shelf.
**** the TRRS cable, and **** that part TRRS part SJ-43514, most unreliable **** ever
thank you so much for improving on that, its worth upgrading just for that.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that the plate doesn't have the cutouts so you can open the switches on the dox.
If I wanted to connect more than two halves together with TRRS cables, I'd need two ports per half.Why would you want to? Are there more types of keyboards planned with support for daisy-chaining? ;)
Why would you want to? Are there more types of keyboards planned with support for daisy-chaining? ;)The microcontrollers are pretty powerful/generic, so it should in theory be possible to plug various other interesting stuff in, (numpad, pointing device, game controller, ...), and add support for them to the main master keyboard section later on. As an example, someone who wants to use a standard 60% size ANSI/QWERTY layout keyboard could add half an ergodox as a separate numpad, under control of the same base firmware. [Assuming that is that a future Infinity 60% board had 2 ports and supported the same kind of daisy chaining.]
If I wanted to connect more than two halves together with TRRS cables, I'd need two ports per half.Why would you want to? Are there more types of keyboards planned with support for daisy-chaining? ;)
BTW. I considered making a Y-cable for my ErgoDox build. 4 leads for power and USB D+, D-, plus the two I²C, but I couldn't find 6-lead connector that was both small and easy to solder by hand.
At minimum, at Numpad is in the works :D
Why would you want to? Are there more types of keyboards planned with support for daisy-chaining? ;)The microcontrollers are pretty powerful/generic, so it should in theory be possible to plug various other interesting stuff in, (numpad, pointing device, game controller, ...), and add support for them to the main master keyboard section later on. As an example, someone who wants to use a standard 60% size ANSI/QWERTY layout keyboard could add half an ergodox as a separate numpad, under control of the same base firmware. [Assuming that is that a future Infinity 60% board had 2 ports and supported the same kind of daisy chaining.]
Just to let you guys know, the LCD is backlit (RGB colors) and we should have the full hand option by the end of the drop. And yes, you will be able to change your order to a full hand if you already ordered the standard and want to change it once that goes live.
I'm thinking whether I should buy this Infinity Dox. I still have an original Dox only partly assembled.
Or is there more cool features and upgrades on an even more advanced Dox coming later this year?
Struggling whether to join or not. :(
I'd finish my first dox and test it to make sure that I like it before buying another, if I was in your situation...
Personally, I don't think it's a huge upgrade on the original. Backlighting could be nice, but the lcd is gimmicky, and I'm slightly nervous about the cpu change, since the TMK firmware that I'm using and happy with atm won't work AFAIK. It is a good move to get rid of the TRRS cable.
But the physical layout is the same, so really in use I'd say it'll be pretty much the same (I hope).
I did read somewhere that bluetooth may be in the works for the future. But I actually think bluetooth/wireless is a negative TBH. Extra complexity for no actual gain. Ergodox is not going to be a good portable keyboard. Too big and the two halves would flop around and be a hassle. Plus battery troubles as well.
�Flawed� in the sense that, while the design works well for some people, it�s unusable for many others, even after they give it a serious try for a few months. �Obvious� is in the eye of the beholder. I think many of the problems are obvious, if you think about it from a hand anatomy perspective, and start looking around at people�s hands and the way they use them while typing. For someone who hasn�t thought much about it, the design tradeoffs are probably somewhat harder to analyze. Likewise, for someone who finds the Ergodox to perfect match their preferences, understanding the problems other people have with it might be difficult.Perhaps the Ergodox�s greatest contribution is that it�s good enough to be appealing, but obviously flawed enough to compel people to fix it.
Seems a bit harsh to call the Ergodox "obviously flawed". It's obvious that some design compromises were made, eg flat for ease of manufacture and lower price, but any successful product is a compromise.
Let me give the Ergodox its due though: as a hobbyist project that grew into a product selling thousands, and as an inspiration for tinkerers, the Ergodox has been a smashing success.
As for me, dox is for sale, HHKB wins.
If I type qwerty, I would agree. Colemak ftw.As for me, dox is for sale, HHKB wins.
Best of luck, I would shoot myself in the head before going back to a non-ergo staggered board.
Having to use them sometimes on other people's machines at work makes me want to vomit. Those are membrane keyboards though. I probably wouldn't vomit with a HHKB. ;D
If I type qwerty, I would agree. Colemak ftw.
Learn a better layout. ~_^
The plate has cutouts for costar stabs.. I would never want 2u keycaps with no stabs that is just asking for trouble. We are looking in to shipping stabs with the units.
WASD?
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts.html (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts.html)