Opinions on the ErgoDox Infinity?

[sethk_]

So it seems a new iteration of the ErgoDox has been developed. Link to the comment that announces it:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/talk#!161897

[daftendire]

The LCD has piqued my interest.

[sethk_]

Show Image

The LCD has piqued my interest.

Same. IMO it is kind of pointless, and could have been done with an LED or 2.

[tbc]

it kinda looks like Das made it

[DrHubblePhD]

Im not sure I understand the functionality of this board...

[livingspeedbump]

Overkill?

[hwood34]

The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though

[zarquon]

I'm surprised that there is no option for a full hand case so far.
That means there is no room to install a trackpoint module, which is unfortunate: i find it really comfortable having a trackpoint.
Though there are some connection points on the pcb (according to the massdrop images), maybe for hardware hacking?

[MAR82]

The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though

Yeah LEDs would have been just fine for layer info or other stuff like that.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB

[hwood34]

The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though

Yeah LEDs would have been just fine for layer info or other stuff like that.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB

Oh really? That's pretty cool then.

[jdcarpe]

The LCD display just seems silly. Seems nice that people can use alps switches though

Yeah LEDs would have been just fine for layer info or other stuff like that.
The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB

Oh really? That's pretty cool then.

Yes, it just didn't have an official plate for Alps. I remember at least one was built with Alps for the alphas.

[vvp]

I think an LCD is nice to have because it can show:

• layer name; if you have more layers than 2 then it is useful to check what layer is currently active (you may want more than 2 layers if for example a program/game you are using does not allow key remapping and you want to create a separate layer for it)
• short hint when you use things like kinesys on the fly remap or macro record
• short help when changing settings (e.g. beep on key press, adding a new layer)

The result is that with LCD you can do things easily even without installing a special configuration application.

[daerid]

I really, really wish they'd have taken this opportunity to move the thumb clusters in slightly.

Unfortunately, not doing that makes it a deal breaker

[Data]

Seems cool.

It's already got a fair amount of interest on MD.  I might let the early adopters go first so they can work out the bugs.  Maybe I'll join in the second round, assuming there is one.  Hopefully there will be more case options down the road.  I'm just not a fan of clear acrylic.

[petrock]

I really, really wish they'd have taken this opportunity to move the thumb clusters in slightly.

That and add in back-lighting.

EDIT: I take that back, they are LED compatible according to the massdrop comments, they are just not supplying the LEDs in the drop. Very cool. I might have to join.

[Defect]

I want an ALPS plate...

[MAR82]

I want an ALPS plate...

Well it does come with one.
But if you already have a board and you are just looking for the plate, looks like you're out of luck. Even if they sold the case or plate separately, it would still not work since the case is not compatible with the older PCBs

[hwood34]

This might be a nice opportunity to improve my typing form by forcing myself to keep each hand on the correct side

[KHAANNN]

I don't need an ErgoDox, I don't want an ErgoDox, yet I can't resist getting one myself, I also have SP ErgoDox packs that I don't use, which is tempting me even further

The USB 3.0 will probably waste the fancy cables everyone have for their ErgoDox's, so there's that, Pexon should start producing USB 3.0 cables too

I strongly suggest joining in, even if you are slightly interested in ErgoDox's as June 29 is the estimated ship date, already so far away

There's also this: https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/issues/4 - Depending on the setup, keypresses might replace mouse controllers (doesn't seem practical, but cool)

I don't think I can resist, but I should, I don't have any issues with regular keyboard arrangements

Edit: the drop link: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox

[FrostyToast]

Seems like a good excuse to bite down on an ergodox.
Although with the Orion v2 and the Mira coming up I should probably pass up on the first round.

[VanGhost]

This is really tempting, I might wait to see if there are more case options later on though.       

[KHAANNN]

Wow, it seems they are selling 2 halves that are actually separate keyboards

The halves might make interesting controller boards on their own, apart from the ErgoDox usage

It also seems that each halve has it's own LCD, seemingly non-backlit ones

200 joins already

I guess I should join just to end the suffering of going back and forth while trying to decide, making keyboards also seem fun separate from their functionalities, it's pretty much like a grand lego set with an actual functionality

[Glod]

This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.

I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.

[SpAmRaY]

This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.

I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.

i might can be convinced to buy said ergodox for really cheap

[bendon]

....
The USB 3.0 will probably waste the fancy cables everyone have for their ErgoDox's, so there's that, Pexon should start producing USB 3.0 cables too
...

Edit: the drop link: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox

This...I got a set of blue/white cables on their way from Pexon .  Only had my current ergodox for a few weeks and don't see enough additions in this new version to warrant getting the new model unless I'm missing something.  Maybe if we were talking about a completely wireless option I guess (by completely I mean wireless comminication between halves AND between the pc/laptop...hey I can dream can't I)...

[Glod]

I will add my opinions though that

1. they really missed out a chance to move the thumb cluster just so slightly closer (even if it meant removing a single key). personally the current arrangement never bothered me but like 50% of people on geekhack i would say have complained about the placement. too big to ignore.
2. i love the interconnect system, its really cool the ability to either connect to each other and have cross-fn key or do seperate, **** TRRS SO MUCH
3. MD and infinity really need to give some example uses of the LED screens, i personally don't find them to be ugly but i want to see example uses of them. If they are not backlit, that would be lame.
4. The lack of full hand sucks, full hand is great if you want to tent and don't have something like the ergodock, as a long time ergodox user, tenting is the proper way to use an ergodox.
5. overall i love the way it looks and i love SMD controller, will look less like something that will get me pulled at a TSA checkpoint in which the teensy with its hanging wires has got me pulled

This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.

I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.

i might can be convinced to buy said ergodox for really cheap

[KHAANNN]

I will add my opinions though that

1. they really missed out a chance to move the thumb cluster just so slightly closer (even if it meant removing a single key). personally the current arrangement never bothered me but like 50% of people on geekhack i would say have complained about the placement. too big to ignore.
2. i love the interconnect system, its really cool the ability to either connect to each other and have cross-fn key or do seperate, **** TRRS SO MUCH
3. MD and infinity really need to give some example uses of the LED screens, i personally don't find them to be ugly but i want to see example uses of them. If they are not backlit, that would be lame.
4. The lack of full hand sucks, full hand is great if you want to tent and don't have something like the ergodock, as a long time ergodox user, tenting is the proper way to use an ergodox.
5. overall i love the way it looks and i love SMD controller, will look less like something that will get me pulled at a TSA checkpoint in which the teensy with its hanging wires has got me pulled

This has my interest, I was debating going back to ErgoDox recently after some pain came back to my left wrist that i Didn't have with my ErgoDox.

I will likely sell 1 or 2 of my ergodox (i own 3) for really cheap and buy one of these.

i might can be convinced to buy said ergodox for really cheap

1) even without using an ergodox, it bothered me a bit, it seemed like the thumb would get stretched during usage
3) from the datasheet, the lcd might be backlit, as the datasheet either mentions backlit versions, or lists the properties and backlit is one of them, however massdrop leaves various details as with most of their drops, you have to pull them from the discussions, I'm sure someone will do it at one point - I guess non-backlit is better than backlit with side-leds tho

[steve.v]

No changes to thumb cluster; no thx. It's too far, needs to be closer.

[jacobolus]

I’m hoping I can convince MassDrop to put out a similar keyboard with designs along the lines of these:

(see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62848)

Basically, they wanted to keep the existing physical layout for their first version where they were trying to modify several other things (screens, new way of handling split halves, new case construction, new controller, etc.).

I’m personally slightly disappointed that a bunch more people may end up with keyboards that don’t suit them as well as a modified design would, but I understand MassDrop’s reasoning.

[OverKill]

Just to let you guys know, the LCD is backlit (RGB colors) and we should have the full hand option by the end of the drop. And yes, you will be able to change your order to a full hand if you already ordered the standard and want to change it once that goes live.

[Glod]

Just to let you guys know, the LCD is backlit (RGB colors) and we should have the full hand option by the end of the drop. And yes, you will be able to change your order to a full hand if you already ordered the standard and want to change it once that goes live.

well ****, that pretty much means im in lol

[KHAANNN]

I decided to buy one, with my impulsiveness, it wasn't much of a decision

The main reason I'm going to buy one is to test a mouse-less setup, by controlling the mouse with the keyboards, right one at that (right one to control the mouse, left one for the mouse clicks, activated with a modifier from the left hand)

I will wait until the add-ons/options are finalised, likely order at the last day

It seems more logical to get the non-full-hand version and add full-hand/angle adapters later on, does this make sense, is this set compatible with existing ones etc?

[Glod]

If you are the type of person that requires a palm/wrist rest, tenting is more difficult without full hand, with full hand you just slap a fair of kinesis freestyle tent adapters on the bottom and you are ready to go. If you are not tenting but still require a wrist/palm rest the noko and grifiti wirst rests should work fine because they didn't change the placement of the thumb keys

[Findecanor]

I still think that the ErgoDox is flawed design. I wish that they had improved also on the layout and called it ErgoDox 2 or similar.

The old ErgoDox supported PCB-mounting and had a few layout options - I wonder if they are still there or if they have been removed completely.

The change of microcontroller from AVR to ARM means that for now only HaaTa's firmware will work. The old official firmware, Hasu's TMK and metalliqaz' Easy AVR USB Keyboard won't.

The ErgoDox has always been able to use ALPS switches because of the double sided PCB

Not really. That was true only for the regular columns, and only because of a happy accident. All keys would be offset from their regular positions.

[clickclack123]

I'm pretty attached to TMK firmware, did I read somewhere that hasu was planning to support ARM eventually??

[jacobolus]

If you are the type of person that requires a palm/wrist rest, tenting is more difficult without full hand, with full hand you just slap a fair of kinesis freestyle tent adapters on the bottom and you are ready to go.

I highly recommend against typing with your hand resting on the acrylic sheet of the full-hand Ergodox (resting it there while not actively typing is fine). If you absolutely need some kind of palmrest while typing (you probably don’t, if you move the keyboard to a more convenient spot closer to your body, raise your chair / lower your desk, and tilt the keyboard properly), I recommend getting something about a half inch taller than the acrylic sheet on the full-hand ergodox, or than a typical palmrest like a Griffiti or whatever.

Similarly, I highly recommend against resting your palms on the bottom half of a laptop while typing.

[bendon]

If you are the type of person that requires a palm/wrist rest, tenting is more difficult without full hand, with full hand you just slap a fair of kinesis freestyle tent adapters on the bottom and you are ready to go.

I highly recommend against typing with your hand resting on the acrylic sheet of the full-hand Ergodox (resting it there while not actively typing is fine). If you absolutely need some kind of palmrest while typing (you probably don�t, if you move the keyboard to a more convenient spot closer to your body, raise your chair / lower your desk, and tilt the keyboard properly), I recommend getting something about a half inch taller than the acrylic sheet on the full-hand ergodox, or than a typical palmrest like a Griffiti or whatever.

Similarly, I highly recommend against resting your palms on the bottom half of a laptop while typing.

This is the same setup I've used at work.  I use a combination of velcro fasteners & v3 tents (after cutting off tabs) on my ergodox (reg. not full-hand) with my arms resting on my chair that's pulled up to the desk, reclined slightly. No wrist rests but it feels good so far.

[0100010]

The traces on that PCB look awful.

[Glod]

haters gonna hate?

I'm still going to hit it

[tjcaustin]

I want one for either quiet clicks or some gaterons

[Findecanor]

The old ErgoDox supported PCB-mounting and had a few layout options - I wonder if they are still there or if they have been removed completely.

I suppose I got that answered... 

[kurplop]

It looks to me like they've made some improvements. Most notable to me is the various switch options. As a first generation ErgoDox user, I strongly agree with the other voices who were disappointed that the thumb cluster wasn't improved. I'm happy with my old ErgoDox but I'm not even sure how I configured 4 of the thumb keys because they aren't well placed and I never use them. I'm sure that buyers will be happy with the new Dox, I just think this is a missed opportunity.

[HaaTa]

*Removed incorrect quote, I'm commenting too quickly *

FYI, hasu's TMK firmware works for the Infinity. Hasu's a good friend of mine and he's first in line to get a beta unit of this keyboard. If you ask him nicely he might even port his firmware to the Infinity ErgoDox too.

[HaaTa]

It looks to me like they've made some improvements. Most notable to me is the various switch options. As a first generation ErgoDox user, I strongly agree with the other voices who were disappointed that the thumb cluster wasn't improved. I'm happy with my old ErgoDox but I'm not even sure how I configured 4 of the thumb keys because they aren't well placed and I never use them. I'm sure that buyers will be happy with the new Dox, I just think this is a missed opportunity.

Personally, I don't like the thumb clusters at all. I think it's a terrible design in general (and I can't use them due to too much SNES when I was younger). To really fix the issue you have to make something completely different imo and then it wouldn't be an ErgoDox anymore. Outside of the uTron design, I haven't really seen any ergonomic thumb buttons that I can use comfortably.

Massdrop asked me to streamline the ErgoDox a bit (and I snuck a few fancy things along the way). I'm very interested in the layouts jacobolus has been working on. But I'd rather not call those an ErgoDox but something completely different.
On the plus side, it's just a layout change, all the tech that I had to develop for this new ErgoDox will already have been tested before shipping.

[HaaTa]

I did entertain the possibility of doing a wireless interconnect. But I'm not ready to work on battery powered things yet (as well as FCC certs).
Bluetooth is on my roadmap, but not till Fall at the earliest

Also, all of those fancy USB cables will work from the first keyboard to the computer. You don't need to use a USB 3.0 cable. The interconnect will need one (if you want to use it).

[Glod]

your transparency is highly appreciated HaaTa, very good to hear this stuff and that you are open to more ergo designs in the future.

For someone who already has switches and key caps, $155 Aint bad (assuming you have disposable income) for a little "upgrade" while we wait for more ergo boards from people like you as well as kinesis who may very well come out and shock us all (or totally disappoint us).

[HaaTa]

I still have secrets around my roadmap (can't spoil the surprises ), but I don't like keeping secrets just to keep secrets.

[jdcarpe]

I still have secrets around my roadmap (can't spoil the surprises ), but I don't like keeping secrets just to keep secrets.

You have secrets?!?!

[HaaTa]

You have secrets?!?!

[bendon]

I did entertain the possibility of doing a wireless interconnect. But I'm not ready to work on battery powered things yet (as well as FCC certs).
Bluetooth is on my roadmap, but not till Fall at the earliest

Also, all of those fancy USB cables will work from the first keyboard to the computer. You don't need to use a USB 3.0 cable. The interconnect will need one (if you want to use it).

That'd be an instant cop...the first thing I did before buying my first was look for a bluetooth/wireless plugs/add-on I could use.