Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.
Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO :) .
Quite unlikely I think. They have promised a TKL board years ago, but it's still "under development".Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.
Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO :) .
Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?
Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?
I have just found out that unicomp make "model m" style keyboards, I was wondering if anyone knew what they are like? Is the buckling spring switch on them as good as the model m's? Also does anyone know what type of NKRO they have? Thank you!
Edit : changed unicode to unicomp had a little brain derp :P
Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.
Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO :) .
Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?
If you mean with regards to the rollover; no, it simply doesn't work that way.Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.
Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO :) .
Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?
If you mean with regards to the rollover; no, it simply doesn't work that way.Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.
Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO :) .
Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?
If you want a detailed explanation on how rollover works, check my F122 video review :) .
I have an IBM 122 key Model M from '89, an IBM 1391401 Model M from '91, and a Unicomp 122 key Model M from 2011. They all make me grin when I'm typing on them.That they do! I'm already missing mine trying out cherry blues.
;D
If you're after the 'feel' the Unicomp will definitely keep you happy. If you want the build quality of the originals, find an original. The keys/legends/etc just aren't in the same league as the originals.
And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology. I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.If you're after the 'feel' the Unicomp will definitely keep you happy. If you want the build quality of the originals, find an original. The keys/legends/etc just aren't in the same league as the originals.
The only thing wrong with most of the originals is the plastic rivets falling off. But this is easily fixed with a bolt mod, and then the keyboard should last for another 30 years.
And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology. I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.
That's only if you go for their website option of repair. If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed. I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels. They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology. I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.
Not exactly....
Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?
http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/
That's only if you go for their website option of repair. If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed. I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels. They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology. I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.
Not exactly....
Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?
http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/
May not be the best thing since the unicomp rivets seem to fall out more than regulars, but since I can't tell a difference on missing rivets, might not be an issue for me.That's only if you go for their website option of repair. If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed. I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels. They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology. I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.
Not exactly....
Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?
http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/
Yeah. Okay.
Edit: Did you ask them how much it will cost you for this custom service? I am sure it will cost much more than a standard service. Possibly more than the keyboard.
I own several IBM Model M keyboards, and have them all over the house. Nothing quite like the original.
I also own a Unicomp 104 key PS/2 keyboard I purchased about 5 years ago for about $100. I was completely underwhelmed with that keyboard. It was significantly lighter than ANY model M, and it never felt as "sturdy" or "solid" as a model m. So, I put it back in the box, and put it on a shelf.
A few weeks ago, I picked up two Model M terminal keyboards. On one, I did a teensy mod after a good cleaning. The other needed a bolt mod, due to the number of rivets that had broken. Much to my dismay, the barrel plate literally fell apart after removing the remaining rivet backs (r.i.p. 1392925...).
I decided to compare my Unicomp backing plate to the Model M backing plate... that is when I saw the reason why the Unicomp never felt quite right... the backing plate on the IBM was nearly twice as thick (to the naked eye - i did not measure it)!
You know where this is leading... :thumb:
My unicomp is now in the process of getting a bolt mod and a new, shiny gold backing plate... The barrel plate from the unicomp lines up PERFECTLY with the old IBM backing plate.
I will probably post a new thread detailing the conversion in the near future...
My $0.02
Keith
I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.
I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.
I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.
I recently tried to just buy the same thing again (all black SpaceSaver) and it was all black keys (some of them again not properly molded and that was just sad from a quality standpoint) and it had a super white spacebar. When I contacted them they sounded surprised that I didn't realize the spacebar was white, and there was no mention of it anywhere.
What did you recently purchase?
I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.
I recently tried to just buy the same thing again (all black SpaceSaver) and it was all black keys (some of them again not properly molded and that was just sad from a quality standpoint) and it had a super white spacebar. When I contacted them they sounded surprised that I didn't realize the spacebar was white, and there was no mention of it anywhere.
What did you recently purchase?
They have to make a modern kishsaver.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TfgtR1y.jpg)
They have to make a modern kishsaver.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TfgtR1y.jpg)
And there was a period where some people complained their cases had become "creaky". I don't think it was a huge deal. They creaked only if you picked them up and flexed them, not while you used them. But because M's have always been so tank-like, I think it just surprised some people.
Nearly everyone seems to feel that Unicomp's quality is back up now. The photos I've seen of their new boards look great, with crisp, well-aligned printing. And I haven't heard anyone complain about creaky cases for some time.
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
That's a good question. Which Model M are we talking about? There is no one "price".
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
That's a good question. Which Model M are we talking about? There is no one "price".
Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.
They have to make a modern kishsaver.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TfgtR1y.jpg)
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
That's a good question. Which Model M are we talking about? There is no one "price".
Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.
Okay. I know IBM/Lexmark models. There are so many, and you are generalizing. Some are significantly more than that, some less. It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them. A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now. That could significantly double the price of getting it working.
Take that into serious consideration.
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
That's a good question. Which Model M are we talking about? There is no one "price".
Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.
Okay. I know IBM/Lexmark models. There are so many, and you are generalizing. Some are significantly more than that, some less. It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them. A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now. That could significantly double the price of getting it working.
Take that into serious consideration.
Who claimed prices don't vary? And did anyone specify which Model M they were referring to in particular in this thread? Thus, I was referencing the general entry price for an original Model M. For the average user, I'd contend it's still cheaper (a pro) to purchase an adapter for an original Model M (eg. 1391401) in the $60 (or less) price range than it is to purchase a new Unicomp.
Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.
How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?
That's a good question. Which Model M are we talking about? There is no one "price".
Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.
Okay. I know IBM/Lexmark models. There are so many, and you are generalizing. Some are significantly more than that, some less. It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them. A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now. That could significantly double the price of getting it working.
Take that into serious consideration.
Who claimed prices don't vary? And did anyone specify which Model M they were referring to in particular in this thread? Thus, I was referencing the general entry price for an original Model M. For the average user, I'd contend it's still cheaper (a pro) to purchase an adapter for an original Model M (eg. 1391401) in the $60 (or less) price range than it is to purchase a new Unicomp.
I understand this. You have to remember that a lot of people are unfamiliar with IBM Model M keyboards and can easily be thinking they got a "great deal" on a Model M, when in fact they might have made the mistake of buying a terminal or otherwise internally damaged one.
They may look good in the pictures, but there may be more wrong with them that can be seen.
There is no argument. I was just saying that the "bargain" you get, may not be such a bargain.
In my experience, most people who visit this forum and are in the market for a Model M don't generally purchase anything labeled 'Model M' blindly.
Since I have a work bench and enjoy old stuff, I was happy to start with a dirty 20+ year old piece of gear, but for an ordinary consumer without the time, tools, or inclination to tinker, I still recommend a new Unicomp with warranty, Windows keys, and native USB.
The case creak is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material which, according to Neil Muyskens, was changed in 1999, and I doubt they've reverted back to IBM and Lexmark's previous recipe...
The caps also feel a bit thinner and do have more flex as well.
Sure, if all you care about is the typing experience, it probably doesn't matter, but if you're interested in the highest quality Model M ever made...
The case creak is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material which, according to Neil Muyskens, was changed in 1999, and I doubt they've reverted back to IBM and Lexmark's previous recipe...
As I mentioned, in the boards where it occurs, it doesn't happen when you're using it. As far as I know you must actually pick it up and flex it. It's beyond me why anyone even thought of doing that in the first place, or why it was supposed to be important. It's like complaining that your toaster doesn't bounce.
What can possibly "flex" in an assembled IBM-style two-piece key?"
And you say the caps feel "thinner"? When you're typing on them? How can you possibly determine the thickness of a cap firmly clipped to a stem? Or do you mean when you removed and examined them? You don't normally interrupt your typing to do that though, do you?
Okay, I was too curious: I just called my friend in Vancouver, and he's removed and examined two-piece keys from his 2015 Ultra Classic and a 1989 Model M 122-key terminal board, compared them, and proclaimed them identical. And I believe him, as he's one of the most detail-oriented people I know (even more than some of you guys!). He couldn't imagine how they could be made to "flex", either. He offered to try squeezing one with pliers, but I said I was pretty sure that'd be beyond the scope of our discussion.
I'm glad we can agree they work equally well as, you know, keyboards —that being, after all, technically, what they are.
And while I see Unicomps and classic IBM M's as equally durable, even if Unicomps were slightly less robust, I don't know of any reason to think a Unicomp made in the last 9 years would prove less durable than an IBM from the '80s/'90s—which, assuming you're not paying $300 for a NIB one, is likely to have 10–20 years more use on it (probably full-time use, too, as BS boards were primarily for business back then).
So what aspect of "quality" remains?
If you ask me, I think IBM and Lexmark lightened their plates over the years not because they were trying to skimp, but because they realized heavier plates were overkill and they were just wasting metal and paying unnecessary shipping. I think they realized people were typing on these things, not hurling them at track meets or using them to stop artillery shells.
And while you and I think classic Model M's are beautiful, let's face it: To most people, they look like something from a thrift store. Non-geeks who want buckling-spring boards probably appreciate the option of buying more modern-looking ones that aren't of such epic (and necessarily beige) proportions.
In other words, I think everyone's a winner. For the clack-loving, there are great options all around. IMHO, just the fact that Unicomp exists and is still pumping out Model M's, in this world so focused on cheapness and mediocrity, is a bit of a miracle.
If you really want to see some of the things involved with Model M restoration, feel free to look at my gallery as well.
http://snowdog993.imgur.com/
There are some models that I couldn't restore, and I had to send those particular keyboards to Phosphorglow. Well worth it to ME, but not everybody.
Are you referring to restoring models that weren't working properly or for some other reason?
I gave credit to every keyboard Phosphorglow has done for me. I highly recommend him.
It is no harder, probably easier than doing a Model F, but not nearly so satisfying.
No way. An F is simple. M is a much bigger pain in the ass.
No way. An F is simple. M is a much bigger pain in the ass.
With an M you are mostly just taking it all apart and putting it all back together.
No way. An F is simple. M is a much bigger pain in the ass.
When I do an F, I always "go all the way" and clean every single part, strip and paint the plate, paint the bottom pan, cut new foam, floss mod, etc.
All that adds up to a lot more hours, and usually several days if you are waiting for paint to cure 24 hours between coats.
Not to mention fitting and wiring in a Teensy, if that is part of the program. With an M you are mostly just taking it all apart and putting it all back together.
If I recall, you stated in a previous thread that you no longer recommend bolt modding a 122-key Model F, though I forget the reason why.
With an M you are mostly just taking it all apart and putting it all back together and adding bolts.
Not if you're doing a bolt mod.
It may be more time consuming to fully refurb an F, but there's no step involved comparable to bolt modding of an M.
With an M you are mostly just taking it all apart and putting it all back together and adding bolts.
Not if you're doing a bolt mod.
It may be more time consuming to fully refurb an F, but there's no step involved comparable to bolt modding of an M.
I am gonna let you guys talk about it like it's a walk in the park.