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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: chipotle on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:26:13

Title: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:26:13
I've been dorking around with mechanical keyboards for a few years, and a couple months ago finally broke down and ordered a Realforce 87U (variable weight). I love it -- but it's created a minor problem for me, in that now I'm not sure how I feel about my keyboard at work, a CODE with MX Clears. After typing on the RF, these feel a bit awkwardly stiff.

So I'm considering getting another keyboard for work. (Which is dumb because I'm also considering selling four or five keyboards I'm not really using anymore, but never mind.) I'm looking for suggestions on what might fit the criteria, though:

I'm leaning toward something based on MX Browns, since they seem similar to the Clears, but less stiff. And I'm guessing they're not any louder (I don't think the CODE Clear has O-rings to make it quieter). I'm not sure what else is really out there. Matias Quiet, although I'm not sure whether I like their TKL layout -- I'm a fan of the more classic 87-key layout for TKL boards.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: dgneo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:31:24
I've been dorking around with mechanical keyboards for a few years, and a couple months ago finally broke down and ordered a Realforce 87U (variable weight). I love it -- but it's created a minor problem for me, in that now I'm not sure how I feel about my keyboard at work, a CODE with MX Clears. After typing on the RF, these feel a bit awkwardly stiff.

So I'm considering getting another keyboard for work. (Which is dumb because I'm also considering selling four or five keyboards I'm not really using anymore, but never mind.) I'm looking for suggestions on what might fit the criteria, though:
  • lighter than the Clears
  • not as expensive at buying another RF87!
  • and, since this is an office, not insanely loud

I'm leaning toward something based on MX Browns, since they seem similar to the Clears, but less stiff. And I'm guessing they're not any louder (I don't think the CODE Clear has O-rings to make it quieter). I'm not sure what else is really out there. Matias Quiet, although I'm not sure whether I like their TKL layout -- I'm a fan of the more classic 87-key layout for TKL boards.

Ignoring the price factor, HHKB is the only answer. If you've been bitten by the Topre bug, nothing else will satisfy you. :thumb:
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Vittra on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:42:29
Sell those 4-5 keyboards and get more Topre.  ;)
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:03:36
Sell those 4-5 keyboards and get more Topre.  ;)
This is both a great and horrible answer. :)
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:09:06
I've been dorking around with mechanical keyboards for a few years, and a couple months ago finally broke down and ordered a Realforce 87U (variable weight). I love it -- but it's created a minor problem for me, in that now I'm not sure how I feel about my keyboard at work, a CODE with MX Clears. After typing on the RF, these feel a bit awkwardly stiff.

So I'm considering getting another keyboard for work. (Which is dumb because I'm also considering selling four or five keyboards I'm not really using anymore, but never mind.) I'm looking for suggestions on what might fit the criteria, though:
  • lighter than the Clears
  • not as expensive at buying another RF87!
  • and, since this is an office, not insanely loud

I'm leaning toward something based on MX Browns, since they seem similar to the Clears, but less stiff. And I'm guessing they're not any louder (I don't think the CODE Clear has O-rings to make it quieter). I'm not sure what else is really out there. Matias Quiet, although I'm not sure whether I like their TKL layout -- I'm a fan of the more classic 87-key layout for TKL boards.

If you like topre and then clears, stay away from browns. I can compare clears, browns, and topre and brown is nowhere near clears of topres in terms of tactility, feel, and even sound (IMHO). I would also suggest buying a HHKB. It is portable, light, you could replace caps in the future buy buying a set from EK.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: whmeltonjr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:11:25
First of all, don't buy MX Browns. If you want Browns, Gaterons are MUCH better. As others have said, they don't come close to comparing to Topre though. Might as well sell what you have and get stuff you will use.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:14:06
Give op your resistance, topre = love ;)

Yes, it is more expensive initially but it will feel sooo rewarding in the long run.

I was hesitant at first, I even disliked topre initially. But then I used my HHKB for a week and I was sold. The feel, the layout, the everything. The only other switch I really like are clears.

But I must confess.. I've only used browns, blues, blacks, clears, and topre. No alps, Buckling spring, etc.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:18:09
If you want a larger backup, get a decent old Apple keyboard with Orange Alps.  They're the closest in feeling to Topre.  You should be able to get one and the necessary adaptors for less than $100. 

The next cheapest thing would be a Type Heaven, but it had ABS caps and is full-size.

Other than that, you're looking at more than $200 or modding a board.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:26:41
Still have yet to try stock clears on a full keyboard. What's the bottom-out force? I was thinking of getting just 67g Zealios and bypassing using Clears altogether.

Have a Realforce 55g at work and any other tactile experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth--or rather, a bitter feeling on my finger tips. Love my buckling springs; love my Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:28:42
Still have yet to try stock clears on a full keyboard. What's the bottom-out force? I was thinking of getting just 67g Zealios and bypassing using Clears altogether.

Have a Realforce 55g at work and any other tactile experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth--or rather, a bitter feeling on my finger tips. Love my buckling springs; love my Topre.

65cn to actuation, 95cn to bottom out. But the interesting thing is, at the actuation point (when the key gets registered), there is a very large resistance that increases rapidly. In other words, beyond the actuation point, you need considerably more force to bottom out. In practice, clears feel not so hard or stiff because of this as you will bottom out less.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:32:41
If you want a larger backup, get a decent old Apple keyboard with Orange Alps.  They're the closest in feeling to Topre.  You should be able to get one and the necessary adaptors for less than $100. 

The next cheapest thing would be a Type Heaven, but it had ABS caps and is full-size.

Other than that, you're looking at more than $200 or modding a board.
I hadn't thought about looking for an old Apple keyboard, but that's an interesting thought. I'd considered the Type Heaven despite it being full-sized, but...eh.

There's also the NovaTouch, possibly? That's around $160 on Amazon right now. Not cheap, but comparable to the Type Heaven price-wise.

Still have yet to try stock clears on a full keyboard. What's the bottom-out force? I was thinking of getting just 67g Zealios and bypassing using Clears altogether.

Have a Realforce 55g at work and any other tactile experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth--or rather, a bitter feeling on my finger tips. Love my buckling springs; love my Topre.

IIRC, the Clears bottom out around 95 cN. As iLLucionist said, you tend not to bottom out with them because you quickly learn not to press them much past the actuation point.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:35:03
Still have yet to try stock clears on a full keyboard. What's the bottom-out force? I was thinking of getting just 67g Zealios and bypassing using Clears altogether.

Have a Realforce 55g at work and any other tactile experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth--or rather, a bitter feeling on my finger tips. Love my buckling springs; love my Topre.

65cn to actuation, 95cn to bottom out. But the interesting thing is, at the actuation point (when the key gets registered), there is a very large resistance that increases rapidly. In other words, beyond the actuation point, you need considerably more force to bottom out. In practice, clears feel not so hard or stiff because of this as you will bottom out less.

I have a habit of bottoming out due to decades of acclimation. I most often bottom out with Blacks, and bottom out all the time with my 65g Zealios. I guess I could try the 67g; couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:53:07
Still have yet to try stock clears on a full keyboard. What's the bottom-out force? I was thinking of getting just 67g Zealios and bypassing using Clears altogether.

Have a Realforce 55g at work and any other tactile experience leaves a bitter taste in my mouth--or rather, a bitter feeling on my finger tips. Love my buckling springs; love my Topre.

65cn to actuation, 95cn to bottom out. But the interesting thing is, at the actuation point (when the key gets registered), there is a very large resistance that increases rapidly. In other words, beyond the actuation point, you need considerably more force to bottom out. In practice, clears feel not so hard or stiff because of this as you will bottom out less.

I have a habit of bottoming out due to decades of acclimation. I most often bottom out with Blacks, and bottom out all the time with my 65g Zealios. I guess I could try the 67g; couldn't hurt.

I can imagine. However blacks are linear whereas clears are not. So it is to be expected that you would bottom out on blacks (linears).
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:59:35
If you're looking for something that you can stomach, that isn't Topre, but also isn't trying to be Topre - I've come to really enjoy Zealios. Currently typing on 67g but it sounds like you might enjoy the 62g or 65g.

I highly prefer them to Browns (I realllllly dislike Cherry MX Browns now) and they are reminiscent of Clears but much smoother and a bit "crisper" if that makes sense.

I will also qualify this post by saying that I had a Realforce 55g for a while, and I still really enjoyed typing on these Zealios. Would often switch. Which means it was bearable for me after tasting Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 14 February 2016, 00:43:32
Sell those 4-5 keyboards and get more Topre.  ;)
This is both a great and horrible answer. :)

Soon you will come to the horrible realisation that this is the only way to go.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: daerid on Sun, 14 February 2016, 00:46:10
I seem to be the only person who enjoys moving back and forth between a 55g Topre and MX Clears
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 14 February 2016, 03:21:19
I seem to be the only person who enjoys moving back and forth between a 55g Topre and MX Clears

Most often I move between MX clears (CODE TKL) at work and 45g Topre (HHKB) at home.

As close as I'll get to your alternation given that I have no 55g Thorpes.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Polymer on Sun, 14 February 2016, 04:06:10
The problem you'll have if you're used to a variable is almost everything feels stiff...Even my other uniform Topre boards feel really stiff for awhile....

But I'm with everyone else, if you want another board go Topre...

Personally I use Topre for work since that is when I'm typing the most..and my Cherry for gaming...

If I had to pick something Cherry that isn't as tiring as Clears I'd use browns..I don't find them tiring to use after using my variable..They don't feel the same but I don't feel like my pinkies are getting tired either which is the main problem when switching from a variable..
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 14 February 2016, 05:02:04
Nah sell teh remaining board other than topre and buy an HHKB
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: CoolGrayAJ on Sun, 14 February 2016, 05:10:45
Reading this thread made me consider selling my other keyboards just to get more Topre... and then I realized....... WHAT A HORRIBLE THING TO DO!
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 14 February 2016, 05:11:36
Reading this thread made me consider selling my other keyboards just to get more Topre... and then I realized....... WHAT A HORRIBLE THING TO DO!
Nah its not horrible! more topre means more love don't hestitate on selling all your board for topre
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 February 2016, 06:15:56
How about a Dell L100 :P .
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: jamster on Sun, 14 February 2016, 07:04:56
I've realised that my preference is Topre by a wide margin, but Ergo Clear is also acceptable. Feels good, bottoms out nicely and as a snappy actuation to it. It is far better imo than any other MX variant.

The only downside is that it's a fair bit of work to do the modification.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: crickclackman on Sun, 14 February 2016, 08:22:43
HHKB or Cherry Reds are closest.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 09:00:36
Honestly, the Apple Extended Keyboard (not II) with orange Alps is the closest I've found to the feel of Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: derb2k2 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 09:16:56
I've gotten into a routine now where I use torpe for most of the day and then when I get home I use browns. In a way, it's a bit of a relief for a few reasons: fc660c feels like 50g even though it's advertised as 45g, also because those are long typing sessions. When I use browns, it just feels easier to type on but in no way does it feel like topre.

Get a cheap MX board and maybe sell the others and as was mentioned, get more Torpe!!
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 10:21:22
If your main criterion is "like a Topre, but cheaper," then why not look at some of the Topre clones out there, like Royal Kludge, Noppoo, PLUM, etc.?

I know that the RK version, at least, also comes with silencing bands pre-installed, which will help with your "quiet for the office" criterion.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 14 February 2016, 10:57:24
Sell the Code keyboard use the funds to buy another Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Bromono on Sun, 14 February 2016, 11:11:22
If your main criterion is "like a Topre, but cheaper," then why not look at some of the Topre clones out there, like Royal Kludge, Noppoo, PLUM, etc.?

I know that the RK version, at least, also comes with silencing bands pre-installed, which will help with your "quiet for the office" criterion.
+1
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: demik on Sun, 14 February 2016, 12:02:12
i dual wield HHKBs
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:29:25
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Tue, 16 February 2016, 16:44:33
Most often I move between MX clears (CODE TKL) at work and 45g Topre (HHKB) at home.

As close as I'll get to your alternation given that I have no 55g Thorpes.
This is almost what I'm doing, but I have the variable weight Realforce.

The idea of a Topre clone seems solid. I've been kicking around the notion of getting a Matias "Laptop Pro," their mini quiet tactile one for Macs -- not with the expectation it'll be anything like a Topre (I have an old Tactile Pro 3 keyboard), but that it will be different from the Cherry MX "feel," not as stiff as the clears, and fairly office-friendly. And it's Bluetooth, so I could pair it with an iPad. I have no good reason to do that other then "mechanical keyboard with an iPad."

(And I'd try Ergo Clears, but I'm pretty sure that me + soldering iron = apartment fire.)
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: romevi on Tue, 16 February 2016, 16:51:47
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 17 February 2016, 08:30:15
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 17 February 2016, 08:39:33
Reviews have noted that Topre clones feel a bit lower quality and more inconsistent than real Topre, which could cause some annoyance if you are switching between them.   I would just save a few bucks and buy another Topre or find a used Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:16:42
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chyros on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:26:27
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Exactly, it's like comparing steak to tomatoes 8) .
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: XMIT on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:26:47
Sell those 4-5 keyboards and get more Topre.  ;)
This is both a great and horrible answer. :)

But it's the only answer.

A dampened NovaTouch isn't so bad but adds up to being the same as a Realforce. Oops! The Noppoo and Royal Kludge Topre clones are ... reminiscent of Topre.

Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:47:44
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Exactly, it's like comparing steak to tomatoes 8) .

If you're referring to Orange Alps and Topre, then no. It's nothing like comparing steak to tomatoes.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:51:48
Sell those 4-5 keyboards and get more Topre.  ;)
This is both a great and horrible answer. :)

But it's the only answer.

A dampened NovaTouch isn't so bad but adds up to being the same as a Realforce. Oops! The Noppoo and Royal Kludge Topre clones are ... reminiscent of Topre.



The only advantage of the NovaTouch is the MX compatible stems.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 17 February 2016, 12:09:22
To be honest, I never have problems switching between all my keyboard types (MX Red, MX Brown, Topre, and Quiet ALPS).

However in your case I'd suggest to just get a Type Heaven, I wouldn't say it feels the same as Realforce but it's pretty close.

BUT I did read a review long time ago (forgot where) that someone mentioned the Unicomp Rubber Dome actually feel a lot like Topre, so this might be a cheaper alternative option.

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4041B
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 13:10:52
To be honest, I never have problems switching between all my keyboard types (MX Red, MX Brown, Topre, and Quiet ALPS).

However in your case I'd suggest to just get a Type Heaven, I wouldn't say it feels the same as Realforce but it's pretty close.

In my opinion, the ABS caps kill it for me. I have a Type Heaven sitting up in the closet that I haven't thought about using since receiving my 104U / 87U.  The keycaps widen the gap in feel to the point that I don't consider a Type Heaven a close enough approximation to recommend it in place of an RF.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chyros on Wed, 17 February 2016, 13:37:09
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Exactly, it's like comparing steak to tomatoes 8) .

If you're referring to Orange Alps and Topre, then no. It's nothing like comparing steak to tomatoes.
It's an in-joke from DT where there was a similar discussion recently. I alluded to it in my Topre video review, too ;) .
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: saturnotaku on Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:14:19
Reviews have noted that Topre clones feel a bit lower quality and more inconsistent than real Topre, which could cause some annoyance if you are switching between them.

I had a Royal Kludge RC930 and 55g Realforce and had no trouble going back and forth between the two. To be completely honest, the Kludge felt better to type on, though admittedly not as good as 45g Topre in a Realforce or HHKB. That being said, for the price difference, I would still take the Kludge, especially when you factor in MX keycap compatibility.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: TopreFan333 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 16:03:05
Agree with everyone who says that once you're into Topre, you are not gonna want to switch.

When I got an HHKB at home, it suddenly sucked to use the Apple Aluminum keyboard on my work computer. I ended up getting a Type Heaven for $100 used. It was great. Definitely a different feel than the HHKB because of the plate-mounted switches and somewhat less nice key caps, but really overall quite good and a fine counterpart to the HHKB. I ended up putting a set of Realforce PBT caps on it, which was a dumb decision price-wise (smarter to just get a RF right off the bat since it comes with the caps and they cost $150 after market) -- but I already had the Type Heaven so the setup was put together in stages. Honestly, though, the stock Type Heaven key caps are not terrible, and it is a genuine Topre keyboard.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 17 February 2016, 17:27:03
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Still not the same. Alps feels like a plastic hitting tactile
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 17 February 2016, 17:29:14
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Exactly, it's like comparing steak to tomatoes 8) .

If you're referring to Orange Alps and Topre, then no. It's nothing like comparing steak to tomatoes.
It's an in-joke from DT where there was a similar discussion recently. I alluded to it in my Topre video review, too ;) .
Why did ya say it chyros. I want to see who got the jokes too
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 17 February 2016, 17:56:58
depends where your located.

Germany a Novatouch costs 110€ :D
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 17 February 2016, 18:04:09
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Still not the same.

Well duh. If they were exactly the same, they'd be the same switch, thus there'd be no point in comparing them. People compare things to determine differences and similarities. That's the point of comparisons.

That said, Orange Alps and Topre share a lot of similarities.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: jamster on Wed, 17 February 2016, 19:58:12
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.

I am impressed that you identified tomatoes as fruit :)

Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: robscomputer on Wed, 17 February 2016, 22:47:36
.

Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 17 February 2016, 22:58:38
Nope, vintage Browns or lubed ergo Clears are closest to Topre on the MX front.  Orange Alps are still, IMO, the closest you can get to Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 18 February 2016, 00:35:31
Nope, vintage Browns or lubed ergo Clears are closest to Topre on the MX front.  Orange Alps are still, IMO, the closest you can get to Topre.

Huh, have a SGI Granite with SKCM Orange I swapped, and I do enjoy them. Wonder if I will like Topre. Will be soon though b/c I am on the US HHKB Tour list :D
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: 1391406 on Thu, 18 February 2016, 07:54:49
Nope, vintage Browns or lubed ergo Clears are closest to Topre on the MX front.  Orange Alps are still, IMO, the closest you can get to Topre.

Huh, have a SGI Granite with SKCM Orange I swapped, and I do enjoy them. Wonder if I will like Topre.

In my opinion, the main difference is the landing. Topre has a softer bottom out, which I prefer. It's lead me to think of ways to soften the landing on my AEK.

Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 18 February 2016, 11:46:38
Nope, vintage Browns or lubed ergo Clears are closest to Topre on the MX front.  Orange Alps are still, IMO, the closest you can get to Topre.

Huh, have a SGI Granite with SKCM Orange I swapped, and I do enjoy them. Wonder if I will like Topre.

In my opinion, the main difference is the landing. Topre has a softer bottom out, which I prefer. It's lead me to think of ways to soften the landing on my AEK.

I can see that. With my SKCM Orange they have a softer landing than other Alps switches I have. Maybe its because they have Grey Plates.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 20 February 2016, 06:47:22
Nope, vintage Browns or lubed ergo Clears are closest to Topre on the MX front.  Orange Alps are still, IMO, the closest you can get to Topre.

Huh, have a SGI Granite with SKCM Orange I swapped, and I do enjoy them. Wonder if I will like Topre.

In my opinion, the main difference is the landing. Topre has a softer bottom out, which I prefer. It's lead me to think of ways to soften the landing on my AEK.

I'm wondering.. back in the day around like.. 1995.. I was still a child and I had a Commodore 486, A Tulip 286, a Philips AT-machine, and a Mac with that keyboard (AEK or AEK2, not sure). But what kind of kb did the PC's typically come with at that time? My Tulip had a kb that I remember to sound like an IBM BS kb, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: jamster on Sat, 20 February 2016, 10:40:05
I'm wondering.. back in the day around like.. 1995.. I was still a child and I had a Commodore 486, A Tulip 286, a Philips AT-machine, and a Mac with that keyboard (AEK or AEK2, not sure). But what kind of kb did the PC's typically come with at that time? My Tulip had a kb that I remember to sound like an IBM BS kb, but I'm not sure.

Mid 90s, I believe that generic PCs came with membrane boards, which still felt a lot better than current membrane boards. Of course, everything was better back then :)

I also recall a nicer level of membrane board being available (e.g. Honeywells).
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 20 February 2016, 23:45:05
i dual wield HHKBs

HHKB is small enough that you could get two and use then similar to Ergo Dox - one for each hand.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: Anastasia on Wed, 24 February 2016, 00:01:55
I have a Cherry MX Blue keyboard and a Topre 45G keyboard. I like how different they are from each other. It makes me appreciate each one even more.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:10:04
To come back to my own thread rather late, I'm going to give the KBParadise V80 with Matias Quiet Click switches a try. This isn't because I expect it to be much like Topre switches, but just because I'm a little bored with Cherry MX switches and I've wanted a TKL Matias keyboard for a while -- but I'm not a fan of Matias's "mini" layout. (Or any layout I've tried smaller than the 87-key type TKLs. Just chop the number keypad off and leave everything else as-is for me, thanks.)

Also, this means that I'll have four keyboards with four major switch types: KUL-87 with Clears, the MQC, the Realforce 87U and a Unicomp SpaceSaver M. That is, I'll have four if I sell off the other keyboards...
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: inanis on Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:11:57
I really like the QC, and to add some perspective to that my daily driver is an HHKB. So, good choice.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:24:55
Why not just make Egro Clears? You'll have to de solder the board but it would be cheap.

Ergo Clears feel nothing like a Topre.
now this is the answers to all you guys that compare tomatoes and steak

If two switches feel nothing alike then it's comparing fruit and meat. Comparing two switches that share similar qualities is a different story. For example, Topre and Orange Alps.
Exactly, it's like comparing steak to tomatoes 8) .

If you're referring to Orange Alps and Topre, then no. It's nothing like comparing steak to tomatoes.
It's an in-joke from DT where there was a similar discussion recently. I alluded to it in my Topre video review, too ;) .
I immediately thought of beefsteak tomatoes for some reason.  :))
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 08 March 2016, 18:45:22
To come back to my own thread rather late, I'm going to give the KBParadise V80 with Matias Quiet Click switches a try. This isn't because I expect it to be much like Topre switches, but just because I'm a little bored with Cherry MX switches and I've wanted a TKL Matias keyboard for a while -- but I'm not a fan of Matias's "mini" layout. (Or any layout I've tried smaller than the 87-key type TKLs. Just chop the number keypad off and leave everything else as-is for me, thanks.)

Also, this means that I'll have four keyboards with four major switch types: KUL-87 with Clears, the MQC, the Realforce 87U and a Unicomp SpaceSaver M. That is, I'll have four if I sell off the other keyboards...

Let us know how you like it. I joined the latest Infinity drop and chose quiet clicks for my switches. I bought some individual switches to play with beforehand and the way the leafs in the switches give way past a certain point, and the dampers on the slider work, both are vaguely "Topre-esque". I will have to wait a few months to try a full board though.

In the meantime I've tried stock MX Clears, and I hate hate hate the springs. These switches are probably the furthest thing from Topre you can get. The springs stiffen so steeply after the tactile point that you don't bottom out as much. That's fine, but it makes the switches feel inconsistent, since different fingers press different keys with slightly different pressure in my case. I promptly bought new springs and made them 45g (actuation point--very slightly lighter than the 62g Korean springs you usually read about) ergo clears. They're much better, but still not Topre.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:51:50
Packard Bell 5130 or any kb that uses BTC Dome with Sliders
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Wed, 09 March 2016, 15:15:41
Let us know how you like it. I joined the latest Infinity drop and chose quiet clicks for my switches. I bought some individual switches to play with beforehand and the way the leafs in the switches give way past a certain point, and the dampers on the slider work, both are vaguely "Topre-esque". I will have to wait a few months to try a full board though.

In the meantime I've tried stock MX Clears, and I hate hate hate the springs. These switches are probably the furthest thing from Topre you can get. The springs stiffen so steeply after the tactile point that you don't bottom out as much. That's fine, but it makes the switches feel inconsistent, since different fingers press different keys with slightly different pressure in my case. I promptly bought new springs and made them 45g (actuation point--very slightly lighter than the 62g Korean springs you usually read about) ergo clears. They're much better, but still not Topre.

I kind of like Clears (my work keyboard, which I'm on right now, is a CODE with Clears) but they are pretty much the anti-Topre, yeah. After getting used to the Realforce at home they just seem stupidly stiff. That's why I was originally thinking of MX Browns -- originally I was convinced I just wouldn't like switches that "light," but I have a suspicion they might end up being my favorite stock MX switches if I really gave them a fair shake. (Or I might absolutely hate them.) But at this point I need to seriously get some of my other keyboards out of my closet before any other purchases...
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 09 March 2016, 15:30:12
I've read a few posts explaining how mx browns are a bit scratchy. Gateron Browns are supposedly a smoother and less scratchy switch.

I won't know from experience until I buy a ton of switch testers but that is what I've read from a few GH users.
Title: Re: Backup keyboard for a Topre fan
Post by: chipotle on Mon, 21 March 2016, 13:23:05
Verdict after a week at work with the MQC KBParadise V80: this is a really nice keyboard. I have an older Matias Tactile Pro 3 keyboard and don't particularly like it; I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but this keyboard feels like it's just far better built than Matias's own keyboards. There's nothing creaky, the keys don't have a strange amount of wobble or ringing to them (there's more wobble than Cherry switches, but that seems to be normal for Alps-style keys). I still like the Realforce more, but it's a much closer call than I'd have expected for a $129 keyboard.

I got the "Dolch" keyboard that's exclusive to MechanicalKeyboards.com, so it's using TaiHao doubleshot keycaps, which may account for some of the nice feel compared to the other Matias keyboard I tried. These feel solid and they've got a really nice texture to them. And being a retro computing nerd, I like the look a lot.