Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 15 May 2016, 15:43:20
I'm not looking to take the pee-pee and get ten to resell, I just want one at a sensible price. So, other than avoiding Ebay, I'm thinking about contacting companies that may have them lying in stock cupboards etc. Any creative ideas?
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:00:24
Ebay isn't too bad, I found my 87' Model M for $60 shipped and it was in good condition, albeit dusty. $60 is a really low price for a mechanical keyboard in general. You might just have to wait for a deal to pop up.
Phosphorglow sells fully refurbished and bolt modded Model M's for around $100, they are probably better than new unboxed Model M's.
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:03:43
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:10:22
Sadly, I'm in the UK, so buying from America means a hefty post cost, and a 20% import fee.
Oh c'mon, you have the cream of the buckling springs crop in the UK. If I can't find a keyboard on US ebay chances are I can find it on UK ebay. Sometimes you have to get creative with your searches to find the ones that are not listed for premium enthusiast prices ;)
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:14:50
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:33:23
But if your plan is "throwing it in the bag and take it around with me" then you need to look for something else.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:40:42
Hi, so, I'm thinking of buying a keyboard that I won't feel guilty about throwing it in the bag and take it around with me and thought a Model M would be perfect for this. But, I just don't subscribe to the prices they are sold for on Ebay - just because a bunch of geeks will pay that price doesn't actually mean they're worth it, right? After all they're 20+ years old, they're going to need work on them sooner or later. In England, we don't have Thrift stores, and computer keyboards are not the mainstay of charity stores, so where could I get a sensibly-priced one from without the geek premium??$60 or 40£ is not a bad price for a good keyboard that could outlast you and seems the going rate. You couldn't make a Model M for that price today, particularly with the same quality in it. They are fantastic boards that have outlasted anything else on computers and command a decent price, calling it a geek tax is sort of bs, as they were very expensive when new. Personally, I think the Model M is a massive keyboard and you won't find an F model or SSK for anywhere near a decent price (being how rare they are), and even then you still have the massive wight and size (for being a "compact").
Frankly that much is going to be the minimum to pay for almost any decent keyboard.
A better option is an HHKB, Poker or a Qisan / Magicforce (just avoid the Kaihl switches), all are smaller, lighter and easier to find/replace than a Model M should something happen to it. Personally, I recommend the Magicforce, it has a plate making it stiffer and stronger than a keyboard with no plate, however, it's aluminum so it's light weight. It's also quite small, thin and can be found for very cheap (29£ with free shipping from Amazon.co.uk just search Qisan mechanical). If you break it, you can get another in 2-3 days, and still spend less than you would have on a Model M or other board.
Edit: fixed prices, which were reversed
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:45:05
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 15 May 2016, 17:01:05
Check also auction and sales sites in the Netherlands. They use US-ANSI English layout, and on the Model M it is possible to switch between ANSI and ISO just by changing keycaps.
Don't be afraid of Model Ms with missing or mismatched keycaps - they could often be acquired from another enthusiast.
BTW, practically ALL keyboards with Cherry MX switches these days have them mounted in a metal plate. It is just that on some the plate is exposed while on other keyboards there are walls around the keys.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 15 May 2016, 17:24:45
It is more like £40 = $60.Oops, i got that backwards, fixed
Post by: chyros on Sun, 15 May 2016, 17:36:12
https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/uk-ib-model-m-2x-1391406-thick-cherry-bow-pom-keycaps-t13745.html
(http://i.imgur.com/zTyMYki.jpg)
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 15 May 2016, 18:31:17
Post by: acid2000 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 18:44:01
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 15 May 2016, 18:44:21
Post by: SBJ on Sun, 15 May 2016, 18:49:54
Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!I don't know of that would make it hard for you to find a model m.
I know they're 'old' but still very popular.
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 15 May 2016, 18:57:53
I recently got some quotes for Model M's in the UK, the usual price is £100 for generally C grade stock. Given eBay prices £40-£45 is very good. I'd be very interested to see if you find one any cheaper.
You're missing the point! First, £45 with postage would be about £50. The addition of what's been referred to as a "geek tax" is not compulsory (and £100 seems insanely high, even with geek tax added), and, if you have to do work on it when you buy it, then it's £8-15 discount per hour of work. I know some may not understand that because OMG IT'S A MODEL M, but let's be realistic, why weren't you buying them when it wasn't cool to own one? It's just a keyboard that's currently going through a fad.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 15 May 2016, 19:18:46
Quote from: Anonymous Coward
I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."
Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.
Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.
And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:23:29
Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!
I know how you feel, I want a Ferrari F40 but those stupid car collectors keep jacking up the prices on them (collector tax?). What a bunch of jerks.
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:42:59
Quote from: Anonymous Coward
I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."
Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.
Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.
And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.
That is gold right there. Ha!
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:07:29
That is gold right there.
I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.
Post by: SBJ on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:15:59
Classic. :DQuote from: Anonymous Coward
I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."
Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.
Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.
And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:24:31
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:22:16
Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!I'd say it's a fair price, but your choice of course. If you're trying to find a cleaned, bolt-modded M for £40 you might be looking for quite a while though :P .
Post by: y11971alex on Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:24:51
I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 16 May 2016, 05:20:22
Taobao is a site on which a '85 model M in decent condition could be had for $65, and a less antiquated one for $40. But of course you pay another $35 in shipping to Canada, so it's not for everyone. For the same total price you could get more keyboard and less shipping if you get a nice deal on eBay. Deals abound on Taobao, if you could overcome the stupid search algorithm that literally finds no matches for "Model M".
I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.
I'd pay <= £10 for a dirty keyboard in need of cleaning, nuts+bolts and needs the connector sorting because it's currently useless as a PC keyboard.
If you can figure out where the local e-waste recyclers are, I'd check that out. I've picked Model Ms for $2 a piece.
This is actually a great idea but is sadly something I've already done.
Post by: y11971alex on Mon, 16 May 2016, 08:38:54
Ask the seller to clean it :pTaobao is a site on which a '85 model M in decent condition could be had for $65, and a less antiquated one for $40. But of course you pay another $35 in shipping to Canada, so it's not for everyone. For the same total price you could get more keyboard and less shipping if you get a nice deal on eBay. Deals abound on Taobao, if you could overcome the stupid search algorithm that literally finds no matches for "Model M".
I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.
I'd pay <= £10 for a dirty keyboard in need of cleaning, nuts+bolts and needs the connector sorting because it's currently useless as a PC keyboard.
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:12:49
Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!
You have to add nuts and bolts because? A bolt mod is not a necessity its a "I want it"ity. as for cleaning just toss the key caps in the dishwasher its what I see done on reddit.
40 pounds for a mechanical keyboard is cheap, especially given that these ones can easily last over 30 years and most mx clones that price wont make 10.
That said I feel the need to wonder why you are going used if its that big a deal? Just get a unicomp like I did, or even a tkl mx clone for 30 or so pounds. Then you get a new one that needs no work. No one is going to see you a cheap m because they feel sorry you dont want a "geek tax" aka supply and demand is happening.
Mechanical keyboards cost money because they are a dream to type on and they last decades if you take care of them.
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:14:15
That is gold right there.
I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.
I for one appreciate it, comedy gold.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:37:13
I for one appreciate it, comedy gold.
There is also this:
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:44:42
40 pounds for a mechanical keyboard is cheap, especially given that these ones can easily last over 30 years and most mx clones that price wont make 10.Wow, ok, so buy them all and resell them. You'll easily make lots of moolah if they're so cheap. If you're right and they last over 30 years, then that means they have... about 3 more years to go then before they all crap out.
No one is going to see you a cheap m because they feel sorry you dont want a "geek tax" aka supply and demand is happening.Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.
Mechanical keyboards cost money because they are a dream to type on and they last decades if you take care of them."A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:48:20
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:48:27
They're a type of keyboard only.
Ripster McTrollington speaks out!
Post by: acid2000 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 17:29:03
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 16 May 2016, 17:32:36
Post by: acid2000 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 17:45:46
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:26:17
Someone uses the "troll" word and you're influenced enough to cry troll. If I wanted to troll, I could easily troll lots of people here. But I haven't. Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years - why? Marketing / fad wears off. They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.Something is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. People pay more than you want to for Model Ms, so you want to pay less than what it's worth. As such, unless you buy one from someone who has no idea what they're worth, or you find one in a skip, you probably won't find one for what you're willing to pay. Simple.
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:27:02
They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.Good. You have to be the most confusing user here! By who's standards are you talking by the way? Yours?
Everyone has told you many ways you can obtain these computer keyboards on the cheap, and you feel you ARE obligated to argue with them about price?
WHO ARE YOU to have this opinion? By the way, if you feel they aren't worth the money, take my advice....
Get another hobby and BUY SOMETHING ELSE.
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:46:56
Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years.
Have they? They were about $40-$60 for full-size and under $200 for SSKs in 2012.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:05:12
Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years.
Have they? They were about $40-$60 for full-size and under $200 for SSKs in 2012.
IBM prices are always a roller coaster. Remember when average SSKs spiked to $400 a year and a half ago?
Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:31:41
Stop.
Wow, ok, so buy them all and resell them. You'll easily make lots of moolah if they're so cheap. If you're right and they last over 30 years, then that means they have... about 3 more years to go then before they all crap out.
You're a bad troll.
Who is actively marketing Model M's?
Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.
Selling something isn't marketing, You don't know what marketing is.
"A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.
What does Steve jobs have to do with IBM keyboards?
Really bad troll is troll.
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:52:59
Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.
Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.
... Blah blah troll blah blah I'm soo cool and beautiful blah blah But, I'm annoyed with you for some reason blah blah......You don't know what marketing is.
Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.
Unfortunately you're wrong on so many levels that _you_ don't know what marketing is.
And you are trying to imply you know more about marketing than me! How are Apple able to sell such way overpriced items? Oh that's right, the mindblowingly amazing marketing they did in the 90s. Yep, the 'm' word. But, you knew that already, right? The truth is, there is no "dream". Only to make people think there is. By making people believe something is elusive and how they can join the 'cool club' if they own a certain product is what pushes prices up. Apple nailed that perfectly. The actual quality has nothing to do with it because history shows quality doesn't actually matter when it comes to sales or price.
"A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.
What does Steve jobs have to do with IBM keyboards?
... I'm a l33t 4chan/Reddit user and will adopt their language so everyone will see how cool I am...
Really bad troll is troll...
Oh! Stop, you!
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:31:09
... I'm a l33t 4chan/Reddit user and will adopt their language so everyone will see how cool I am...
Really bad troll is troll...
Oh! Stop, you!
:))
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 17 May 2016, 10:19:58
Post by: 1391406 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:29:28
Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.
Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.
Yes, Unicomp's are plug and play, however I'd pay more for a vintage Model M made by IBM because the quality is superior, in my opinion. Further, I've purchased a number of Model M's on eBay that work perfectly without a bolt mod.
Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.
Hype only gets you so far. It may spurn sales initially but it's not sustainable unless the product actually meets expectation. What people are willing to pay for a product in a free market dictates its value. Just because you think something is overpriced is independent of its worth.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:37:48
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:43:23
Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go.
You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working.
If you are under the impression that many or most "vintage" Model Ms being bought and sold today are non-operational, you are mistaken.
I have owned dozens of Model Ms and the only 3 that I ever got that were dead were all late-1990s Greenock 42Hs.
Internal work such as bolt modifications are voluntary and optional, but advisable if you really intend to "toss" your keyboard in a bag and trundle it around the countryside - that kind of treatment is likely to pop rivets loose.
There were, of course, "terminal" style keyboards made for commercial/industrial environments with connectors and protocols incompatible with "personal computers" but Orihalcon sells cable/adapters that make any of them plug-and-play, too.
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:56:19
Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.
Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.
Model M keyboards have several variants; some of them were shipped with PCs and some others were not. If you choose a variant that works natively with PC/AT (like 1390131), then it will 100% work with all PCs that speak AT protocol. Even the one meant for the PC/XT (1390120) will still work on computers speaking AT, and I myself can testify to that fact.
Of course, if you choose a terminal variant, then you should have a terminal hooked up to a computer ready to use it.
If all else fails, you can take refuge in the Unpopular Keyboard Opinion thread.
Post by: need on Tue, 17 May 2016, 12:05:44
Is this a joke?
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 12:07:30
Post by: 1391406 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 12:12:19
"throw it in my bag and take it around..."
Is this a joke?
Likely an exaggeration to suggest the carelessness and effort required to break rivets.
Post by: acid2000 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 17:43:05
Now artisan keycaps that's real geek tax
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 17 May 2016, 18:29:47
Post by: smknjoe on Tue, 17 May 2016, 20:31:00
The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.
One 87 with 0 broken rivets, one 87 with about 10-15 broken rivets and I used it for a couple of years that way, one 92 with about 20-30 broken rivets and "NIB" (sealed), and an 89 with no broken rivets. All but the 92 were perfectly usable. I can tell a difference in 87 that I restored, but it's not a huge difference.
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 17 May 2016, 20:40:52
The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.
One 87 with 0 broken rivets, one 87 with about 10-15 broken rivets and I used it for a couple of years that way, one 92 with about 20-30 broken rivets and "NIB" (sealed), and an 89 with no broken rivets. All but the 92 were perfectly usable. I can tell a difference in 87 that I restored, but it's not a huge difference.
I think a single drop will cause quite a change in the rivet situation. Mine was dropped hard enough to break the corner of the case and had about 20 broken rivets.
Post by: smknjoe on Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:37:56
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:50:03
The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.
That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:53:41
The 87 with 10 broken rivets came from a school and was shipped across the country. So was the 89. I think it's just luck of the draw or maybe storage conditions...
An 87 SSK is coming to me across the country as well. Luckily, it doesn't look like any children have banged around on it.
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 17 May 2016, 23:02:00
The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.
That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.
I'd be so scared to do it myself on my main board. Not that I couldn't learn, but I just know I'd mess it up unless I bought a couple to practice on first.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 18 May 2016, 00:25:11
The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.
That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.
I'd be so scared to do it myself on my main board. Not that I couldn't learn, but I just know I'd mess it up unless I bought a couple to practice on first.
I have all the parts needed, ill do it over the summer. I have a lot to do actually keyboard wise. Plenty of retrobright in my future.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:03:23
I got a new-in-box SSK from Cindy's sale a couple of years ago which I considered leaving in the box for resale at a profit, but when I opened it I found that over a third of the rivets were broken, including a majority at one end. It worked, but that side felt terrible.
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:19:06
My oldest M, a 1390131 from 1986, came to me about 4 years ago with every single rivet intact, but I did a bolt-mod on it anyway because it was a primo specimen and I wanted to "go all the way" with mods.
I got a new-in-box SSK from Cindy's sale a couple of years ago which I considered leaving in the box for resale at a profit, but when I opened it I found that over a third of the rivets were broken, including a majority at one end. It worked, but that side felt terrible.
how interesting!
who knows what causes these things to snap.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:37:35
who knows what causes these things to snap.
My guesses:
(1) deterioration of plasticisers with age and increased brittleness
(2) thermal expansion and contraction
(3) shear (being dropped on one end)
If the NIB had been stored in an unconditioned warehouse and the box took a hard fall on one end, that would easily do it.
The good one probably spent most of its life in a conditioned home or office, and never took a hard drop end-on.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 18 May 2016, 10:00:38
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 22 May 2016, 03:44:16
That is gold right there.
I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.
Use it as your signature.
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 22 May 2016, 11:35:35
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 23 May 2016, 10:48:54
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Are you stupid? (Serious question)
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:43:54
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Are you stupid? (Serious question)
Are you? (Serious question)
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:48:25
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Are you stupid? (Serious question)
Are you? (Serious question)
I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.
Anyway... Back to topic.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:59:57
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Are you stupid? (Serious question)
Are you? (Serious question)
I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.
Anyway... Back to topic.
Jeez, such hostility. Buy vintage white alps or vintage cherry mx blacks and be happy. The topic was kind of null to begin with tbh
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:02:06
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:14:19
Show Image(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense. :))
Are you stupid? (Serious question)
Are you? (Serious question)
I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.
Anyway... Back to topic.
Jeez, such hostility. Buy vintage white alps or vintage cherry mx blacks and be happy. The topic was kind of null to begin with tbh
I know. And it was a serious question after his responses in the thread. Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong. Almost as if he was the whole market for them.
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:23:06
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:35:06
Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong. Almost as if he was the whole market for them.
Oh no! Have you ever dared to haggle for a different price from a seller? Supplier-led prices only works for certain things. Throw-away things like keyboards are not within those things. The buyer is nearly always in the drivers-seat when it comes to pricing on all goods. Think, there's five people in the world who want to buy something, and a seller just happens to be selling 5 at a ridiculous price. If the buyers refuse to pay, the seller has storage space taken up by deadspace. So, who's going to give out first? Potential buyers can use another alternative keyboard easily, however the seller is relying on selling the items to put food on the table. The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.
Post by: y11971alex on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:56:33
Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong. Almost as if he was the whole market for them.
Oh no! Have you ever dared to haggle for a different price from a seller? Supplier-led prices only works for certain things. Throw-away things like keyboards are not within those things. The buyer is nearly always in the drivers-seat when it comes to pricing on all goods. Think, there's five people in the world who want to buy something, and a seller just happens to be selling 5 at a ridiculous price. If the buyers refuse to pay, the seller has storage space taken up by deadspace. So, who's going to give out first? Potential buyers can use another alternative keyboard easily, however the seller is relying on selling the items to put food on the table. The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.
Price =\= Value :p
Fiat money has no value but plenty of price :p
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 May 2016, 16:40:09
The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.
I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"
If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.
Post by: smknjoe on Wed, 25 May 2016, 21:09:30
The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.
I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"
If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.
I always attempt to negotiate a price down. I got 2 SSKs for less than asking price...and I'll bet it's because no one else would even bite because the price was either too high or they thought the seller would not budge on price.
Post by: QuincyJones on Thu, 26 May 2016, 11:25:28
Buyers love bargins, huh? So... sellers up their price to encourage people like you to make offers and think they got a good bargin. Seller trick #1041.
The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.
I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"
If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.
I always attempt to negotiate a price down. I got 2 SSKs for less than asking price...and I'll bet it's because no one else would even bite because the price was either too high or they thought the seller would not budge on price.
Post by: y11971alex on Thu, 26 May 2016, 12:13:13
To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk. All this is $CAD. The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import. I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.
So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do. I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale. I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition. 1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 26 May 2016, 12:25:22
@QuincyJones
To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk. All this is $CAD. The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import. I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.
So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do. I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale. I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition. 1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.
I think QJ was looking to spend about tree fiddy.
Post by: y11971alex on Thu, 26 May 2016, 12:29:28
@QuincyJones
To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk. All this is $CAD. The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import. I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.
So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do. I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale. I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition. 1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.
I think QJ was looking to spend about tree fiddy.
:D I can't make a trade for 19 shillings and 11 pence. Just one penny more, please.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 26 May 2016, 13:23:32
Buyers love bargins, huh? So... sellers up their price to encourage people like you to make offers and think they got a good bargin. Seller trick #1041.
I have been a professional salesperson for decades and have sold millions of dollars' worth of stuff.
To me, naming a price and then dropping to a lower price is dishonesty, pure and simple.
I consider it a mechanism by which inherently dishonest people are able to do business with each other.
Of course, many people look at "price negotiating" as a game, and I sometimes play the game, reluctantly, when I am a buyer, but very rarely as a seller.
But I have no respect for people who play that game, from either side. I respect transparency and straightforwardness.
Last, I believe that whichever participant in a "deal" who is most willing to say "No" has control of the negotiation.
Post by: QuincyJones on Thu, 26 May 2016, 19:32:47
@QuincyJones
To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk. All this is $CAD. The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import. I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.
So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do. I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale. I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition. 1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.
How it went from "The price of the keyboard itself is low" to "£50 to you, mate". I'll never know!
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 26 May 2016, 19:35:18
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 26 May 2016, 19:40:22
(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 26 May 2016, 20:31:48
Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 26 May 2016, 20:36:43
Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!
happy 1000 Waateva
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 20:37:59
They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.Good. You have to be the most confusing user here! By who's standards are you talking by the way? Yours?
Everyone has told you many ways you can obtain these computer keyboards on the cheap, and you feel you ARE obligated to argue with them about price?
WHO ARE YOU to have this opinion? By the way, if you feel they aren't worth the money, take my advice....
Get another hobby and BUY SOMETHING ELSE.
Take a hint.
Post by: y11971alex on Thu, 26 May 2016, 23:49:04
50 pounds sterling is quite cheap for a Model M, considering how they retain functionality and only a third of their original price.@QuincyJones
To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk. All this is $CAD. The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import. I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.
So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do. I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale. I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition. 1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.
How it went from "The price of the keyboard itself is low" to "£50 to you, mate". I'll never know!
Post by: supamesican on Fri, 27 May 2016, 07:51:39
At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too muchLawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!
happy 1000 Waateva
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 27 May 2016, 08:55:11
At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too muchLawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!
happy 1000 Waateva
Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.
Post by: Waateva on Fri, 27 May 2016, 09:37:21
Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!
happy 1000 Waateva
Thanks mate, I didn't even notice! :)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 27 May 2016, 09:37:37
Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.
This is not my only reason but if I am serious about one, I want to know that every part of it is squeaky clean and germ-free.
Post by: supamesican on Fri, 27 May 2016, 09:59:17
Hmm that is a very valid reason to bolt mod it. Thankfully my unicomp was new so I didnt need to mod anything yet. Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too muchLawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what? :confused:Show Image(https://grantstevens.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/casey-jones.gif)
Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do :'(
Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!
happy 1000 Waateva
Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 27 May 2016, 10:26:24
Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.
This is not my only reason but if I am serious about one, I want to know that every part of it is squeaky clean and germ-free.
Its really the only way to be certain it is completely clean.
The SSK I got had 11 broken rivets, so it definitely will help in the long run.
Post by: QuincyJones on Fri, 27 May 2016, 13:36:34
Post by: Waateva on Fri, 27 May 2016, 13:46:48
ZOMG! i WANT TO BOLT-MOD TOO!!!1 CAN I HAZ COOL? BOLT MOD. SUCH KEYBOARD GEEK. I WANT TO BOLT MOD. MUCH HACK. LOOK AT ME EVERYONE. I'M BOLT MODD WIZ. STRANGERS GIVE ME YOUR APPROVAL. MUCH WOW.
(http://i.imgur.com/pevSPn4.gif?noredirect)
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 27 May 2016, 14:13:38
This is my first M, so I want to be sure before close the deal.
The deal was closed when you received it.
If you bought it from Ebay, take out all the keys, keep them and send it back complaining to Ebay not as described. Buy another keyboard, and then take out the keys and send back the keys in an envelope stating that's all you received. Job done. Ebay gives you a free keyboard. You're welcome.
k, talk about sensibly priced.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 27 May 2016, 14:36:46
Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?
Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.
Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.
Post by: y11971alex on Fri, 27 May 2016, 14:58:06
Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?
Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.
Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.
I was wondering, if a Model M could be clamped together instead of being bolted? Like held together with some strong clips.
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 27 May 2016, 15:26:16
Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?
Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.
Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.
I was wondering, if a Model M could be clamped together instead of being bolted? Like held together with some strong clips.
It would probably suffice around the edges, but without the tension pulling the two together in the center, the hammers will fall out of the barrels, the capacitive connections will fail, and the plate will separate itself from the barrel frame.
Post by: supamesican on Sat, 28 May 2016, 13:33:09
Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?
Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.
Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.
Awesome! Makes my life with this thing easier then. I'll still learn how to bolt mod when I get my m13 and trackball model ms some day but for now this is good enough.