A sensibly-priced Model M?

[acid2000]

I use my 5150 XT everyday. I like the fact that I'm bringing something back to life. But if you don't want to pay the geek tax the choice of keyboards is pretty broad.

Now artisan keycaps that's real geek tax

[QuincyJones]

Artisan keycaps? Puh-lease! A bottle of tippex and a packet of sharpies. Apply tippex to keycaps, get creative! I don't have a screen cap, but hackers movie near the end when they're in the phone booth on their laptops.

[smknjoe]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

One 87 with 0 broken rivets, one 87 with about 10-15 broken rivets and I used it for a couple of years that way, one 92 with about 20-30 broken rivets and "NIB" (sealed), and an 89 with no broken rivets. All but the 92 were perfectly usable. I can tell a difference in 87 that I restored, but it's not a huge difference.

[Moistgun]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

One 87 with 0 broken rivets, one 87 with about 10-15 broken rivets and I used it for a couple of years that way, one 92 with about 20-30 broken rivets and "NIB" (sealed), and an 89 with no broken rivets. All but the 92 were perfectly usable. I can tell a difference in 87 that I restored, but it's not a huge difference.

I think a single drop will cause quite a change in the rivet situation. Mine was dropped hard enough to break the corner of the case and had about 20 broken rivets.

[smknjoe]

The 87 with 10 broken rivets came from a school and was shipped across the country. So was the 89. I think it's just luck of the draw or maybe storage conditions...

[Mattr567]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.

[ThoughtArtist]

The 87 with 10 broken rivets came from a school and was shipped across the country. So was the 89. I think it's just luck of the draw or maybe storage conditions...

An 87 SSK is coming to me across the country as well. Luckily, it doesn't look like any children have banged around on it.

[ThoughtArtist]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.

I'd be so scared to do it myself on my main board. Not that I couldn't learn, but I just know I'd mess it up unless I bought a couple to practice on first.

[Mattr567]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

That's interesting. My Model M needs a bolt mod BAD. The enter area is so soft it feels almost linear. The sound is completely different. I haven't been able to open mine up fully yet (although I have had it for a long time) so I don't know how many are missing.

I'd be so scared to do it myself on my main board. Not that I couldn't learn, but I just know I'd mess it up unless I bought a couple to practice on first.

I have all the parts needed, ill do it over the summer. I have a lot to do actually keyboard wise. Plenty of retrobright in my future.

[fohat.digs]

My oldest M, a 1390131 from 1986, came to me about 4 years ago with every single rivet intact, but I did a bolt-mod on it anyway because it was a primo specimen and I wanted to "go all the way" with mods.

I got a new-in-box SSK from Cindy's sale a couple of years ago which I considered leaving in the box for resale at a profit, but when I opened it I found that over a third of the rivets were broken, including a majority at one end. It worked, but that side felt terrible.

[Moistgun]

My oldest M, a 1390131 from 1986, came to me about 4 years ago with every single rivet intact, but I did a bolt-mod on it anyway because it was a primo specimen and I wanted to "go all the way" with mods.

I got a new-in-box SSK from Cindy's sale a couple of years ago which I considered leaving in the box for resale at a profit, but when I opened it I found that over a third of the rivets were broken, including a majority at one end. It worked, but that side felt terrible.

how interesting!

who knows what causes these things to snap.

[fohat.digs]

who knows what causes these things to snap.

My guesses:

(1) deterioration of plasticisers with age and increased brittleness
(2) thermal expansion and contraction
(3) shear (being dropped on one end)

If the NIB had been stored in an unconditioned warehouse and the box took a hard fall on one end, that would easily do it.

The good one probably spent most of its life in a conditioned home or office, and never took a hard drop end-on.

[chyros]

The rivets generally weaken with age. Motion such as banging is then more likely to pop one or more off, but they'll probably all be weakened.

[rowdy]

That is gold right there.

I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.

Use it as your signature.

[chuckdee]

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That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

[QuincyJones]

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That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

Are you stupid? (Serious question)

[chuckdee]

Show Image

That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

Are you stupid? (Serious question)

Are you?  (Serious question) 

[QuincyJones]

Show Image

That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

Are you stupid? (Serious question)

Are you?  (Serious question)

I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.

Anyway... Back to topic.

[xtrafrood]

Show Image

That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

Are you stupid? (Serious question)

Are you?  (Serious question)

I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.

Anyway... Back to topic.

Jeez, such hostility. Buy vintage white alps or vintage cherry mx blacks and be happy. The topic was kind of null to begin with tbh

[Moistgun]

There are no thrift stores in England?

[chuckdee]

Show Image

That's the first thing you've posted in this thread that makes sense.  :))

Are you stupid? (Serious question)

Are you?  (Serious question)

I can't take you seriously. So, yours was not a serious question.

Anyway... Back to topic.

Jeez, such hostility. Buy vintage white alps or vintage cherry mx blacks and be happy. The topic was kind of null to begin with tbh

I know.  And it was a serious question after his responses in the thread.  Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong.  Almost as if he was the whole market for them.

[Waateva]

Why is anyone still answering this guy's questions?

[QuincyJones]

Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong.  Almost as if he was the whole market for them.

Oh no! Have you ever dared to haggle for a different price from a seller? Supplier-led prices only works for certain things. Throw-away things like keyboards are not within those things. The buyer is nearly always in the drivers-seat when it comes to pricing on all goods. Think, there's five people in the world who want to buy something, and a seller just happens to be selling 5 at a ridiculous price. If the buyers refuse to pay, the seller has storage space taken up by deadspace. So, who's going to give out first? Potential buyers can use another alternative keyboard easily, however the seller is relying on selling the items to put food on the table. The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.

[y11971alex]

Everything should be the price he says it should be, and if it isn't, it's priced wrong.  Almost as if he was the whole market for them.

Oh no! Have you ever dared to haggle for a different price from a seller? Supplier-led prices only works for certain things. Throw-away things like keyboards are not within those things. The buyer is nearly always in the drivers-seat when it comes to pricing on all goods. Think, there's five people in the world who want to buy something, and a seller just happens to be selling 5 at a ridiculous price. If the buyers refuse to pay, the seller has storage space taken up by deadspace. So, who's going to give out first? Potential buyers can use another alternative keyboard easily, however the seller is relying on selling the items to put food on the table. The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.

Price =\= Value 

Fiat money has no value but plenty of price

[fohat.digs]

The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.

I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"

If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.

[smknjoe]

The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.

I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"

If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.

I always attempt to negotiate a price down. I got 2 SSKs for less than asking price...and I'll bet it's because no one else would even bite because the price was either too high or they thought the seller would not budge on price.

[QuincyJones]

The seller will always drop their prices. Those that don't are either out to screw you or won't last long.

I don't think that is true. Whenever I am selling, my prices are "firm"

If the item does not sell after x amount of time, I may drop the price myself, but I do not respond to attempts to negotiate.

I always attempt to negotiate a price down. I got 2 SSKs for less than asking price...and I'll bet it's because no one else would even bite because the price was either too high or they thought the seller would not budge on price.

Buyers love bargins, huh? So... sellers up their price to encourage people like you to make offers and think they got a good bargin. Seller trick #1041.

[y11971alex]

@QuincyJones

To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk.  All this is $CAD.  The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import.  I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.

So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do.  I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale.  I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition.  1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.

[Moistgun]

@QuincyJones

To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk.  All this is $CAD.  The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import.  I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.

So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do.  I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale.  I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition.  1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.

I think QJ was looking to spend about tree fiddy.

[y11971alex]

@QuincyJones

To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk.  All this is $CAD.  The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import.  I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.

So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do.  I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale.  I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition.  1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.

I think QJ was looking to spend about tree fiddy.

  I can't make a trade for 19 shillings and 11 pence.  Just one penny more, please.

[fohat.digs]

Buyers love bargins, huh? So... sellers up their price to encourage people like you to make offers and think they got a good bargin. Seller trick #1041.

I have been a professional salesperson for decades and have sold millions of dollars' worth of stuff.

To me, naming a price and then dropping to a lower price is dishonesty, pure and simple.
I consider it a mechanism by which inherently dishonest people are able to do business with each other.

Of course, many people look at "price negotiating" as a game, and I sometimes play the game, reluctantly, when I am a buyer, but very rarely as a seller.

But I have no respect for people who play that game, from either side. I respect transparency and straightforwardness.

Last, I believe that whichever participant in a "deal" who is most willing to say "No" has control of the negotiation.

[QuincyJones]

@QuincyJones

To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk.  All this is $CAD.  The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import.  I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.

So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do.  I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale.  I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition.  1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.

How it went from "The price of the keyboard itself is low" to "£50 to you, mate". I'll never know!

[Moistgun]

I have 5 model M's and I wouldn't sell one to you for a non-sensible price. 

[xtrafrood]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

[Waateva]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

[Moistgun]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!

happy 1000 Waateva

[Snowdog993]

To quote:

They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

Good. You have to be the most confusing user here!  By who's standards are you talking by the way?  Yours?
Everyone has told you many ways you can obtain these computer keyboards on the cheap, and you feel you ARE obligated to argue with them about price?
WHO ARE YOU to have this opinion?  By the way, if you feel they aren't worth the money, take my advice....

Get another hobby and BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

Take a hint.

[y11971alex]

@QuincyJones

To answer your OP, I can import a fully functional, plug/play Model M for approximately $70 shipped, $60 if in bulk.  All this is $CAD.  The price of the keyboard itself is low, but the margins when sold on my end aren't high enough for me to make this a routine import.  I only stock 5 or so IBM keyboards at maximum, since I don't have a dedicated warehouse for merchandise.

So, if you're still set on getting a Model M, here's what I can do.  I'll purchase the keyboard with the assurance that you will pay the full cost to me, and it will be shipped directly from source to you, so I don't have to cover shipping from my locale to Britain, the shipping cost being the main stumbling block whenever I make a sale.  I imagine that this cannot cost more than £50 when it reaches you, and £50 would be, according to what appears from your posts, a reasonably price for a functional Model M in good condition.  1390131 and 1390120 are out of the question, though.

How it went from "The price of the keyboard itself is low" to "£50 to you, mate". I'll never know!

50 pounds sterling is quite cheap for a Model M, considering how they retain functionality and only a third of their original price.

[supamesican]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!

happy 1000 Waateva

At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too much

[Moistgun]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!

happy 1000 Waateva

At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too much

Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.

[Waateva]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!

happy 1000 Waateva

Thanks mate, I didn't even notice! :)

[fohat.digs]

Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.

This is not my only reason but if I am serious about one, I want to know that every part of it is squeaky clean and germ-free.

[supamesican]

Lawd, what happened in this thread? Did 'QJ' get the deal they wanted or what?

Show Image

Nah, I imagine that if you mailed him one for free it would still not be sensible enough for him as he would have to put some work into it which he just doesn't wanna do  :'(

Meanwhile, Im literally bolt modding right now!

happy 1000 Waateva

At least you'll have a nice working model M with better than stock bolts and be happy whereas some people even thinking about the mod is too much

Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.

Hmm that is a very valid reason to bolt mod it. Thankfully my unicomp was new so I didnt need to mod anything yet.  Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?

[Moistgun]

Really the only reason im bolting is is because it was so effing dirty, I just wanted to get the parts apart and clean the hell out of it.

This is not my only reason but if I am serious about one, I want to know that every part of it is squeaky clean and germ-free.

Its really the only way to be certain it is completely clean.

The SSK I got had 11 broken rivets, so it definitely will help in the long run.

[QuincyJones]

ZOMG! i WANT TO BOLT-MOD TOO!!!1 CAN I HAZ COOL? BOLT MOD. SUCH KEYBOARD GEEK. I WANT TO BOLT MOD. MUCH HACK. LOOK AT ME EVERYONE. I'M BOLT MODD WIZ. STRANGERS GIVE ME YOUR APPROVAL. MUCH WOW.

[Waateva]

ZOMG! i WANT TO BOLT-MOD TOO!!!1 CAN I HAZ COOL? BOLT MOD. SUCH KEYBOARD GEEK. I WANT TO BOLT MOD. MUCH HACK. LOOK AT ME EVERYONE. I'M BOLT MODD WIZ. STRANGERS GIVE ME YOUR APPROVAL. MUCH WOW.

[Moistgun]

This is my first M, so I want to be sure before close the deal.

The deal was closed when you received it.

If you bought it from Ebay, take out all the keys, keep them and send it back complaining to Ebay not as described. Buy another keyboard, and then take out the keys and send back the keys in an envelope stating that's all you received. Job done. Ebay gives you a free keyboard. You're welcome.

k, talk about sensibly priced.

[fohat.digs]

Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?

Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.

Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.

[y11971alex]

Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?

Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.

Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.

I was wondering, if a Model M could be clamped together instead of being bolted?  Like held together with some strong clips.

[Moistgun]

Do model f's need the bolt mod too though or is that M only?

Model F is completely different from Model M, the only parts that interchange are the key caps and stems.

Fs can be dis-assembled and re-assembled non-destructively, and can be "bolt-modded" although it is a very different sort of operation that is completely optional rather than mandatory after cracking them open. The "barrel frame" of the M, which is the component that the rivets are part of, does not even exist in a Model F.

I was wondering, if a Model M could be clamped together instead of being bolted?  Like held together with some strong clips.

It would probably suffice around the edges, but without the tension pulling the two together in the center, the hammers will fall out of the barrels, the capacitive connections will fail, and the plate will separate itself from the barrel frame.