A sensibly-priced Model M?

[QuincyJones]

Hi, so, I'm thinking of buying a keyboard that I won't feel guilty about throwing it in the bag and take it around with me and thought a Model M would be perfect for this. But, I just don't subscribe to the prices they are sold for on Ebay - just because a bunch of geeks will pay that price doesn't actually mean they're worth it, right? After all they're 20+ years old, they're going to need work on them sooner or later. In England, we don't have Thrift stores, and computer keyboards are not the mainstay of charity stores, so where could I get a sensibly-priced one from without the geek premium?

I'm not looking to take the pee-pee and get ten to resell, I just want one at a sensible price. So, other than avoiding Ebay, I'm thinking about contacting companies that may have them lying in stock cupboards etc. Any creative ideas?

[klennkellon]

Your best bet is just scourging thrift stores and hope you find one.

Ebay isn't too bad, I found my 87' Model M for $60 shipped and it was in good condition, albeit dusty. $60 is a really low price for a mechanical keyboard in general. You might just have to wait for a deal to pop up.

Phosphorglow sells fully refurbished and bolt modded Model M's for around $100, they are probably better than new unboxed Model M's.

[QuincyJones]

Sadly, I'm in the UK, so buying from America means a hefty post cost, and a 20% import fee.

[xtrafrood]

Sadly, I'm in the UK, so buying from America means a hefty post cost, and a 20% import fee.

Oh c'mon, you have the cream of the buckling springs crop in the UK. If I can't find a keyboard on US ebay chances are I can find it on UK ebay. Sometimes you have to get creative with your searches to find the ones that are not listed for premium enthusiast prices

[smknjoe]

Craigslist, ebay, classifieds. I found my first two SSKs NIB for well under $200 that way. I've seen lot's of standard Ms for around $40 on CL.

[fohat.digs]

The more patient you are, the better deal you will eventually find. Don't worry about age or dirt, they clean up well.

But if your plan is "throwing it in the bag and take it around with me" then you need to look for something else.

[Leslieann]

Hi, so, I'm thinking of buying a keyboard that I won't feel guilty about throwing it in the bag and take it around with me and thought a Model M would be perfect for this. But, I just don't subscribe to the prices they are sold for on Ebay - just because a bunch of geeks will pay that price doesn't actually mean they're worth it, right? After all they're 20+ years old, they're going to need work on them sooner or later. In England, we don't have Thrift stores, and computer keyboards are not the mainstay of charity stores, so where could I get a sensibly-priced one from without the geek premium??

$60 or 40£ is not a bad price for a good keyboard that could outlast you and seems the going rate. You couldn't make a Model M for that price today, particularly with the same quality in it. They are fantastic boards that have outlasted anything else on computers and command a decent price, calling it a geek tax is sort of bs, as they were very expensive when new. Personally, I think the Model M is a massive keyboard and you won't find an F model or SSK for anywhere near a decent price (being how rare they are), and even then you still have the massive wight and size (for being a "compact").

Frankly that much is going to be the minimum to pay for almost any decent keyboard.
A better option is an HHKB, Poker or a Qisan / Magicforce (just avoid the Kaihl switches), all are smaller, lighter and easier to find/replace than a Model M should something happen to it. Personally, I recommend the Magicforce, it has a plate making it stiffer and stronger than a keyboard with no plate, however, it's aluminum so it's light weight. It's also quite small, thin and can be found for very cheap (29£ with free shipping from Amazon.co.uk just search Qisan mechanical). If you break it, you can get another in 2-3 days, and still spend less than you would have on a Model M or other board.

Edit: fixed prices, which were reversed

[smknjoe]

Those are very good prices. Model Ms were ~$225-$250 new in the 90's.

[Findecanor]

It is more like £40 = $60. The prices for Model Ms are much higher in my country otherwise.

Check also auction and sales sites in the Netherlands. They use US-ANSI English layout, and on the Model M it is possible to switch between ANSI and ISO just by changing keycaps.

Don't be afraid of Model Ms with missing or mismatched keycaps - they could often be acquired from another enthusiast.

BTW, practically ALL keyboards with Cherry MX switches these days have them mounted in a metal plate. It is just that on some the plate is exposed while on other keyboards there are walls around the keys.

[Leslieann]

It is more like £40 = $60.

Oops, i got that backwards,  fixed

[chyros]

I've got two UK Model Ms for sale . I didn't list them on GH though, as the Classifieds forum here has incredibly stupid rules and almost everyone here is American anyway. I listed them on DT instead: have a look if you're interested .

https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/uk-ib-model-m-2x-1391406-thick-cherry-bow-pom-keycaps-t13745.html

[QuincyJones]

Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!

[acid2000]

I recently got some quotes for Model M's in the UK, the usual price is £100 for generally C grade stock. Given eBay prices £40-£45 is very good. I'd be very interested to see if you find one any cheaper.

[smknjoe]

Nice story.

[SBJ]

Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!

I don't know of that would make it hard for you to find a model m.
I know they're 'old' but still very popular.

[QuincyJones]

I recently got some quotes for Model M's in the UK, the usual price is £100 for generally C grade stock. Given eBay prices £40-£45 is very good. I'd be very interested to see if you find one any cheaper.

You're missing the point! First, £45 with postage would be about £50. The addition of what's been referred to as a "geek tax" is not compulsory (and £100 seems insanely high, even with geek tax added), and, if you have to do work on it when you buy it, then it's £8-15 discount per hour of work. I know some may not understand that because OMG IT'S A MODEL M, but let's be realistic, why weren't you buying them when it wasn't cool to own one? It's just a keyboard that's currently going through a fad.

[fohat.digs]

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

[Leslieann]

Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!

I know how you feel, I want a Ferrari F40 but those stupid car collectors keep jacking up the prices on them (collector tax?).  What a bunch of jerks.

[smknjoe]

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

That is gold right there. Ha!

[fohat.digs]

That is gold right there.

I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.

[SBJ]

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

Classic.

[CPTBadAss]

If you can figure out where the local e-waste recyclers are, I'd check that out. I've picked Model Ms for $2 a piece.

[chyros]

Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!

I'd say it's a fair price, but your choice of course. If you're trying to find a cleaned, bolt-modded M for £40 you might be looking for quite a while though .

[y11971alex]

Taobao is a site on which a '85 model M in decent condition could be had for $65, and a less antiquated one for $40.  But of course you pay another $35 in shipping to Canada, so it's not for everyone.  For the same total price you could get more keyboard and less shipping if you get a nice deal on eBay.  Deals abound on Taobao, if you could overcome the stupid search algorithm that literally finds no matches for "Model M".

I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.

[QuincyJones]

Taobao is a site on which a '85 model M in decent condition could be had for $65, and a less antiquated one for $40.  But of course you pay another $35 in shipping to Canada, so it's not for everyone.  For the same total price you could get more keyboard and less shipping if you get a nice deal on eBay.  Deals abound on Taobao, if you could overcome the stupid search algorithm that literally finds no matches for "Model M".

I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.

I'd pay <= £10 for a dirty keyboard in need of cleaning, nuts+bolts and needs the connector sorting because it's currently useless as a PC keyboard.

If you can figure out where the local e-waste recyclers are, I'd check that out. I've picked Model Ms for $2 a piece.

This is actually a great idea but is sadly something I've already done.

[y11971alex]

Taobao is a site on which a '85 model M in decent condition could be had for $65, and a less antiquated one for $40.  But of course you pay another $35 in shipping to Canada, so it's not for everyone.  For the same total price you could get more keyboard and less shipping if you get a nice deal on eBay.  Deals abound on Taobao, if you could overcome the stupid search algorithm that literally finds no matches for "Model M".

I also found an F107 listed for $50, but it was sold the day before I could buy it.

I'd pay <= £10 for a dirty keyboard in need of cleaning, nuts+bolts and needs the connector sorting because it's currently useless as a PC keyboard.

Ask the seller to clean it

[supamesican]

Thanks, but I don't even want to have to pay £40+ for a keyboard I would have to do work on;dismantle and clean and add nuts and bolts!

You have to add nuts and bolts because? A bolt mod is not a necessity its a "I want it"ity. as for cleaning just toss the key caps in the dishwasher its what I see done on reddit.

40 pounds for a mechanical keyboard is cheap, especially given that these ones can easily last over 30 years and most mx clones that price wont make 10.

That said I feel the need to wonder why you are going used if its that big a deal? Just  get a unicomp like I did, or even a tkl mx clone for 30 or so pounds. Then you get a new one that needs no work. No one is going to see you a cheap m because they feel sorry you dont want a "geek tax" aka supply and demand is happening.

Mechanical keyboards cost money because they are a dream to type on and they last decades if you take care of them. 

[supamesican]

That is gold right there.

I try to re-post it a couple of times a year, so that it is not forgotten.

I for one appreciate it, comedy gold.

[fohat.digs]

I for one appreciate it, comedy gold.

There is also this:

[QuincyJones]

40 pounds for a mechanical keyboard is cheap, especially given that these ones can easily last over 30 years and most mx clones that price wont make 10.

Wow, ok, so buy them all and resell them. You'll easily make lots of moolah if they're so cheap. If you're right and they last over 30 years, then that means they have... about 3 more years to go then before they all crap out.

No one is going to see you a cheap m because they feel sorry you dont want a "geek tax" aka supply and demand is happening.

Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.

Mechanical keyboards cost money because they are a dream to type on and they last decades if you take care of them.

"A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.

[supamesican]

If they aren't any better to type on why do you even want one?

[fohat.digs]

They're a type of keyboard only.

Ripster McTrollington speaks out!

[acid2000]

I smell a troll

[QuincyJones]

Someone uses the "troll" word and you're influenced enough to cry troll. If I wanted to troll, I could easily troll lots of people here. But I haven't. Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years - why? Marketing / fad wears off. They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

[acid2000]

Rather than ranting about the high price of a desirable item that you yourself want I would spend your time going to charity shops and the local dump. There you will find the model M that you desire.

[chyros]

Someone uses the "troll" word and you're influenced enough to cry troll. If I wanted to troll, I could easily troll lots of people here. But I haven't. Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years - why? Marketing / fad wears off. They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

Something is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. People pay more than you want to for Model Ms, so you want to pay less than what it's worth. As such, unless you buy one from someone who has no idea what they're worth, or you find one in a skip, you probably won't find one for what you're willing to pay. Simple.

[Snowdog993]

They're still over-priced, regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

Good. You have to be the most confusing user here!  By who's standards are you talking by the way?  Yours?
Everyone has told you many ways you can obtain these computer keyboards on the cheap, and you feel you ARE obligated to argue with them about price?
WHO ARE YOU to have this opinion?  By the way, if you feel they aren't worth the money, take my advice....

Get another hobby and BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

[smknjoe]

Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years.

Have they? They were about $40-$60 for full-size and under $200 for SSKs in 2012.

[fohat.digs]

Model M prices have come down drastically in the last few years.

Have they? They were about $40-$60 for full-size and under $200 for SSKs in 2012.

IBM prices are always a roller coaster. Remember when average SSKs spiked to $400 a year and a half ago?

Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.

[Moistgun]

Wow, ok, so buy them all and resell them. You'll easily make lots of moolah if they're so cheap. If you're right and they last over 30 years, then that means they have... about 3 more years to go then before they all crap out.

Stop.
You're a bad troll.

Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.

Who is actively marketing Model M's?
Selling something isn't marketing, You don't know what marketing is.

"A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.

What does Steve jobs have to do with IBM keyboards?

Really bad troll is troll.

[QuincyJones]

Wow, I didn't intend to stir up so much hatred. Sorry if you're offended that I don't want to pay the price you may have. There's no need to defend it to me or anyone else.

Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.

Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.

... Blah blah troll blah blah I'm soo cool and beautiful blah blah But, I'm annoyed with you for some reason blah blah...

Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.

...You don't know what marketing is.

Unfortunately you're wrong on so many levels that _you_ don't know what marketing is.

"A dream". Steve Jobs would be proud right there. That's the evidence of you believing the hype. They're a type of keyboard only.

What does Steve jobs have to do with IBM keyboards?

And you are trying to imply you know more about marketing than me! How are Apple able to sell such way overpriced items? Oh that's right, the mindblowingly amazing marketing they did in the 90s. Yep, the 'm' word. But, you knew that already, right? The truth is, there is no "dream". Only to make people think there is. By making people believe something is elusive and how they can join the 'cool club' if they own a certain product is what pushes prices up. Apple nailed that perfectly. The actual quality has nothing to do with it because history shows quality doesn't actually matter when it comes to sales or price.

... I'm a l33t 4chan/Reddit user and will adopt their language so everyone will see how cool I am...

Really bad troll is troll...

Oh! Stop, you!

[Moistgun]

... I'm a l33t 4chan/Reddit user and will adopt their language so everyone will see how cool I am...

Really bad troll is troll...

Oh! Stop, you!

 )

[QuincyJones]

[1391406]

Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.

Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.

Yes, Unicomp's are plug and play, however I'd pay more for a vintage Model M made by IBM because the quality is superior, in my opinion. Further, I've purchased a number of Model M's on eBay that work perfectly without a bolt mod.

Not so much supply and demand, but just marketing and people cashing in on that. It doesn't make them worth what they're being sold for. Just because one or two fools who views it will pay the premium doesn't mean anyone else will.

Hype only gets you so far. It may spurn sales initially but it's not sustainable unless the product actually meets expectation. What people are willing to pay for a product in a free market dictates its value. Just because you think something is overpriced is independent of its worth.

[chyros]

The vast majority of Ms do not require bolt-modding. Even if you're missing 15 or more I think it's unlikely that any keys will be impacted or dysfunctional. I'm pretty convinced people won't be able to feel the difference between 10 missing bolts and none missing at all for boards in otherwise identical condition.

[fohat.digs]

Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go.

You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working.

If you are under the impression that many or most "vintage" Model Ms being bought and sold today are non-operational, you are mistaken.

I have owned dozens of Model Ms and the only 3 that I ever got that were dead were all late-1990s Greenock 42Hs.

Internal work such as bolt modifications are voluntary and optional, but advisable if you really intend to "toss" your keyboard in a bag and trundle it around the countryside - that kind of treatment is likely to pop rivets loose.

There were, of course, "terminal" style keyboards made for commercial/industrial environments with connectors and protocols incompatible with "personal computers" but Orihalcon sells cable/adapters that make any of them plug-and-play, too.

[y11971alex]

Personally, I have always thought that good common vintage M prices should be in approximate parity with new Unicomp prices.

Partly agree, but with a new Unicomp at least you can plug it in and go. You can't with a Model M, and the price should reflect the work that needs doing to it or the additional cost to get it up and working. By that very nature, the keyboard becomes only a geek keyboard.

Model M keyboards have several variants; some of them were shipped with PCs and some others were not.  If you choose a variant that works natively with PC/AT (like 1390131), then it will 100% work with all PCs that speak AT protocol.  Even the one meant for the PC/XT (1390120) will still work on computers speaking AT, and I myself can testify to that fact. 

Of course, if you choose a terminal variant, then you should have a terminal hooked up to a computer ready to use it.

If all else fails, you can take refuge in the Unpopular Keyboard Opinion thread.

[need]

"throw it in my bag and take it around..."
Is this a joke?

[mike52787]

Obvious bait thread, Hi ripster

[1391406]

"throw it in my bag and take it around..."
Is this a joke?

Likely an exaggeration to suggest the carelessness and effort required to break rivets.