geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:37:28

Title: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:37:28
Rukia

**first iteration will be polycarb, but the goal is still UHMW**

(no longer called Plastic Alice)
[attach=3][attach=4]
[attach=1][attach=2]

Details:
UHMW top and bottom case
Top Mount; 6.5 degree angle (original is 8 degrees)
Brass weight
UHMW or brass plate
Black or white color. Black is opaque (no light getting through); white diffuses well, looks milky
PCB based off Yuktsi's open source files; has RGB backlighting

https://forms.gle/TeQBjhFKxbbRnwUE6 (https://forms.gle/TeQBjhFKxbbRnwUE6)

**Disclaimer: this will NOT be compatible with your Alice wrist rest or
Alice weight if you already have one. It will be compatible with the plate
and PCB.

Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMW) is a new material
for keyboard cases. It has an extremely low friction coefficient,
approaching that of PTFE. It is also very abrasion resistant and is
used in high wear applications, such as motorcycle slide pucks, truck
beds, and cutting boards. It is also impact resistant and elastic, so
it is used as puncture resistant vehicle underside protection and rifle
rated bullet proof plates.

**OTHER Disclaimer: this is not my original design. I got permission to run
this IC from Yuktsi, creator of TGR boards such as the Alice and Jane.
The keyboard case I created is built up from the files graciously posted
by Yuktsi for people to cut their own acrylic Alice. I just took it
a step further and built up a compatible case for those who already have
an Alice plate and PCB**

Why a UHMW Alice?
-Form factor: those who have one or tried one, typically enjoy, if not love,
the Alice. It is ergonomic without being a full split and works with normal keysets.
-Portability: anodized aluminum is sexy, but scratches and dents relatively easily.
It is also cold to the touch and better suited to staying at home. For those who take
their keyboards to and from school or work, this is a better option.
-Sound: many switches just sound better in a plastic case, depending on the material and
design of the case. UHMW offers a nice, deep THOCK that I believe many will enjoy.
-Light diffusion: RGB, if that's your thing, is diffused throughout the case from the back. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58OyYOz6rkE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58OyYOz6rkE)
-Availability: original Alices are rightfully difficult to get. Those that have them, keep them.
Or they sell at a high price because they'd like to keep them. This is an opportunity to have
something similar, although not quite as sexy. Well, maybe a different kind of sexy.

Timeline:
ideally 8-10 weeks or LESS.
Pricing:
$350-$400; shipping is separate
I'll try to get that price down, but don't hold your breath. Not trying to be rude, but this has
been a manufacturing nightmare for the last 6 months.

Who am I?
I'm not an engineer, not a software designer, not an IT person.
I worked as an airborne linguist for the Air Force for 10 years, the latter half focused on new technologies.
I'm pretty nerdy but not an expert on anything. I'm hard working, but I also have two kids, a full time job, and a care home
that splits my time. I don't sleep, however, so if you post, I'll likely reply really late PST.

This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

If you're following the Irma IC, know that this is running concurrent. I don't plan on delaying the Irma at all. I will follow GH rules, but things will move fast from here on out.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: XtReeM1337n355 on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:40:25
Oo I知 down for this. Alice resale is too crazy
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:42:04
Hey I'm open to this
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: unluckyxiii on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:43:24
Always wanted an Alice but I知 late to the game so I知 down for this!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: King4477 on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:43:26
Will buy. Thanks.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Lndefinite on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:44:03
Yes please. I need a plastic alice
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:44:33
Down for this
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:44:37
UHMW? Alice? Yep.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: ThePanduuh on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:48:43
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:52:07
anything alice shaped, i am interested in
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:53:45
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.

and lasered sheets of a cheaper plastic rather than cnc

lubrigante's target price is 100-110 usd

half plate is cheaper than full plate anyway, but obviously that's not gonna account for $250 of difference

they're totally different products that occupy the same niche
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: clickityClackity on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:55:48
Hell yes please
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: ThePanduuh on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:56:13
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.

and more pieces, and a cheaper plastic

lubrigante's target price is 100-110 usd

half plate is cheaper than full plate anyway, but obviously that's not gonna account for $250 of difference

they're totally different products that occupy the same niche
Lubrigante is open source, so you could go and make the board out of whatever you like. wood if you wanted. files are out for public. but I understand wanting to pay a premium for the material type. The lubrigante target price is what makes it so appealing, same shape, layout, design, for 1/10th the price. Rather than almost 1/2 the price.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:57:41
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.

and more pieces, and a cheaper plastic

lubrigante's target price is 100-110 usd

half plate is cheaper than full plate anyway, but obviously that's not gonna account for $250 of difference

they're totally different products that occupy the same niche
Lubrigante is open source, so you could go and make the board out of whatever you like. wood if you wanted. files are out for public. but I understand wanting to pay a premium for the material type. The lubrigante target price is what makes it so appealing, same shape, layout, design, for 1/10th the price. Rather than almost 1/2 the price.

part of the reason it's so cheap is bulk manufacturing but i see your point
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: regionfree on Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:02:13
very interested!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:05:55
Google form is up.

I'm aware of the Lubrigante and other cheaper options.
This is not those. Puddsy is correct.
I don't discourage anyone from going those routes. This is imho a step further.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:06:57
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HugeMinorCanine-small.gif)
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: kissingyou on Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:08:47
pcb, plate included?
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: rope on Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:10:27
please gib
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: mrboli on Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:21:35
Down!
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: pattern on Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:29:27
That's a bingo!  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: KevlarBear on Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:38:07
Very interested! Is the amount going to be limited? If so, FCFS or Raffle?
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:41:42
I pondered not bringing this up but I feel it may be relevant so I decided to.

The situation is quite two-fold; the Alice is a very special board, not only to Yuktsi but to the enthusiasts lucky enough to own one - as someone who did get one, I'm all for others experiencing the layout (I have no horse in the aftermarket race and even if I did, I'm sure these alternatives will actually run the Alice prices up in the long run) because I do find it to be a joy to use. I'm sure it's also why Yuktsi has decided to provide everyone with the files needed to run their own projects if they so choose, and I'm glad people are taking advantage of that and being creative in their own ways.

That said, I do find it a little concerning that there may arise a looming feeling of pushing it a bit. Of course this is unlike, for example, the guy that about a year or two back tried to run an IC for a literal Dolphin copy with absolutely no consent just because he and others wanted one and the prices were too high for an original. Still, I think people often start to be wary of when imitation being the sincerest form of flattery starts to turn a little sour. I mean no disrespect and I do personally trust the motives for running this to come from a good place, if for no other reason then just because I actually do like the idea of a more resistant Alice myself, but I could see why someone may think it's just a flavour change to keep the community content and not seem like a knock-off that would otherwise just be ran as an aluminium board.

To reiterate, I obviously harbour no contempt toward the project - I just do wish that everything remains respectful in everyone's eyes not just, though always first and foremost, the creator's.
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:57:46
I pondered not bringing this up but I feel it may be relevant so I decided to.

The situation is quite two-fold; the Alice is a very special board, not only to Yuktsi but to the enthusiasts lucky enough to own one - as someone who did get one, I'm all for others experiencing the layout (I have no horse in the aftermarket race and even if I did, I'm sure these alternatives will actually run the Alice prices up in the long run) because I do find it to be a joy to use. I'm sure it's also why Yuktsi has decided to provide everyone with the files needed to run their own projects if they so choose, and I'm glad people are taking advantage of that and being creative in their own ways.

That said, I do find it a little concerning that there may arise a looming feeling of pushing it a bit. Of course this is unlike, for example, the guy that about a year or two back tried to run an IC for a literal Dolphin copy with absolutely no consent just because he and others wanted one and the prices were too high for an original. Still, I think people often start to be wary of when imitation being the sincerest form of flattery starts to turn a little sour. I mean no disrespect and I do personally trust the motives for running this to come from a good place, if for no other reason then just because I actually do like the idea of a more resistant Alice myself, but I could see why someone may think it's just a flavour change to keep the community content and not seem like a knock-off that would otherwise just be ran as an aluminium board.

To reiterate, I obviously harbour no contempt toward the project - I just do wish that everything remains respectful in everyone's eyes not just, though always first and foremost, the creator's.

This is an outcome of supply and demand as well :T
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:01:35
I pondered not bringing this up but I feel it may be relevant so I decided to.

The situation is quite two-fold; the Alice is a very special board, not only to Yuktsi but to the enthusiasts lucky enough to own one - as someone who did get one, I'm all for others experiencing the layout (I have no horse in the aftermarket race and even if I did, I'm sure these alternatives will actually run the Alice prices up in the long run) because I do find it to be a joy to use. I'm sure it's also why Yuktsi has decided to provide everyone with the files needed to run their own projects if they so choose, and I'm glad people are taking advantage of that and being creative in their own ways.

That said, I do find it a little concerning that there may arise a looming feeling of pushing it a bit. Of course this is unlike, for example, the guy that about a year or two back tried to run an IC for a literal Dolphin copy with absolutely no consent just because he and others wanted one and the prices were too high for an original. Still, I think people often start to be wary of when imitation being the sincerest form of flattery starts to turn a little sour. I mean no disrespect and I do personally trust the motives for running this to come from a good place, if for no other reason then just because I actually do like the idea of a more resistant Alice myself, but I could see why someone may think it's just a flavour change to keep the community content and not seem like a knock-off that would otherwise just be ran as an aluminium board.

To reiterate, I obviously harbour no contempt toward the project - I just do wish that everything remains respectful in everyone's eyes not just, though always first and foremost, the creator's.

normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: heyitsqi on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:09:40
Damn. I'd be in.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: bciamny on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:15:10
I pondered not bringing this up but I feel it may be relevant so I decided to.

The situation is quite two-fold; the Alice is a very special board, not only to Yuktsi but to the enthusiasts lucky enough to own one - as someone who did get one, I'm all for others experiencing the layout (I have no horse in the aftermarket race and even if I did, I'm sure these alternatives will actually run the Alice prices up in the long run) because I do find it to be a joy to use. I'm sure it's also why Yuktsi has decided to provide everyone with the files needed to run their own projects if they so choose, and I'm glad people are taking advantage of that and being creative in their own ways.

That said, I do find it a little concerning that there may arise a looming feeling of pushing it a bit. Of course this is unlike, for example, the guy that about a year or two back tried to run an IC for a literal Dolphin copy with absolutely no consent just because he and others wanted one and the prices were too high for an original. Still, I think people often start to be wary of when imitation being the sincerest form of flattery starts to turn a little sour. I mean no disrespect and I do personally trust the motives for running this to come from a good place, if for no other reason then just because I actually do like the idea of a more resistant Alice myself, but I could see why someone may think it's just a flavour change to keep the community content and not seem like a knock-off that would otherwise just be ran as an aluminium board.

To reiterate, I obviously harbour no contempt toward the project - I just do wish that everything remains respectful in everyone's eyes not just, though always first and foremost, the creator's.

what is the it being pushed? i am not entirely sure i get what your basis is for hesitation on this project, especially per puddsy's point. i don't really like ergo designs or plastic cases so i am not someone that can directly benefit from another iteration of an alice board but i'm still excited for those that are looking to get a board design that has been roundly lauded.

to speak more broadly, it's pretty awesome that yuktsi has allowed others to recreate his design. running a gb isn't easy and is generally time consuming, so expecting multiple runs of the same thing from the same runner is almost certainly unfair. i'd love to see more cooperation between makers and runners in the future, not as an expectation but more as a sign of general community cohesion.
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:16:52
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: bciamny on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:18:46
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.

who are the others in the community that should have an opportunity to speak their disapproval/uneasiness?
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: xondat on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:19:51
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.

who are the others in the community that should have an opportunity to speak their disapproval/uneasiness?

Let's ask anyone with over 5000 posts.
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:21:00
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.

who are the others in the community that should have an opportunity to speak their disapproval/uneasiness?

Let's ask anyone with over 5000 posts.

anyone who assumes post count is a measure of intelligence clearly hasn't met either of us
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: xondat on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:24:26
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.

who are the others in the community that should have an opportunity to speak their disapproval/uneasiness?

Let's ask anyone with over 5000 posts.

anyone who assumes post count is a measure of intelligence clearly hasn't met either of us

Speak for yourself.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 11 April 2019, 22:50:43
Call it Felicia, like F + Alice.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:22:51
Renders added
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Taac on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:23:41
So because my account is new, my concerns surrounding the involvement of a questionable GB runner (Tesletron) in this IC aren't valid and were deleted?  If Jaxxstatic feels it's necessary to delete any references in his OP that tie him to Tesletron and won't explain what he is and isn't doing in the GB, and the mods are wiping all record of the interaction, all that does is confirm my fears. 

Glad I grabbed screenshots just in case something like this happened -

[attach=1][attach=2]

I'd have loved to pick one of these up, but with no explanation on these legitimate concerns, I can't do so with a clear conscience.   I hope your involvement with him is minimal since he's got a horrible track record (Lumina aside), and has burned many others in the past.  Do yourself a favor and keep a healthy distance.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:33:31
Tesletron did the renders for free. He also gave great advice about how to avoid manufacturing pitfalls.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Taac on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:43:49
So because my account is new, my concerns surrounding the involvement of a questionable GB runner (Tesletron) in this IC aren't valid and were deleted?  If Jaxxstatic feels it's necessary to delete any references in his OP that tie him to Tesletron and won't explain what he is and isn't doing in the GB, and the mods are wiping all record of the interaction, all that does is confirm my fears. 

Glad I grabbed screenshots just in case something like this happened -

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

I'd have loved to pick one of these up, but with no explanation on these legitimate concerns, I can't do so with a clear conscience.   I hope your involvement with him is minimal since he's got a horrible track record (Lumina aside), and has burned many others in the past.  Do yourself a favor and keep a healthy distance.


Tesletron did the renders for free. He also gave great advice about how to avoid manufacturing pitfalls.

Thank you for clearing this up for myself and others with warranted concerns regarding his level of involvement.  If that's the case, I'll be filling out the IC form.

Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:50:21
I知 the group buy runner. I値l edit this post when I can. Headed home from the care home, then put wife and kids to bed. Then I値l clarify things. Thanks.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: scoopbb on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:52:44
talked to my machinist buddy about this

his words
Quote
Uhmw...  I wouldn't quote on that job for anything
Stringy, gummy, moves around after you cut it..   Stupid for a part like that
You are supposed to make plain bearings and cutting boards with it
Not keyboards


gonna look pretty cool when its done though i bet
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: WanderingQuestoiner on Thu, 11 April 2019, 23:53:23
Tesletron did the renders for free. He also gave great advice about how to avoid manufacturing pitfalls.

Thank you for the clarification, will be looking forward to the success of this group buy!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 12 April 2019, 00:03:10
talked to my machinist buddy about this

his words
Quote
Uhmw...  I wouldn't quote on that job for anything
Stringy, gummy, moves around after you cut it..   Stupid for a part like that
You are supposed to make plain bearings and cutting boards with it
Not keyboards


gonna look pretty cool when its done though i bet

if you look at his other thread he talked about how he or his guy devised a special process to do it or something

that's also why it's so expensive
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: macclack on Fri, 12 April 2019, 00:10:10
In. This is super cool.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 00:42:54
Ok, so first off:
Manufacturing:
I've been working seriously on trying to turn UHMW into a keyboard case and plate for the last six months. My experience with it before that was cutting sheets into pucks for longboarding gloves. UHMW can be smoothed. It can be machined fine. It is a nightmare for unexperienced machinists in that it turns to spaghetti not dust when CNC'd. Also there is thermal expansion and warping if it's not annealed properly. This can be mitigated by the tool path as well. Check the Irma thread for more, please. I won't be doing injection molding with because of the low numbers, but it is actually possible. I found several companies that do gas infusion for UHMW injection molding and have done it to the tolerances I need. Cost is the issue.
Also, US manufacturing cost sucks. Period. And integrity is seriously wanting.

IP/Biting/Shadiness:
Yuktsi signed off. It's his design, inspired by the EM7. I loved my EM7, but the Alice fixes what I didn't like about it.
This is not a rebranding of his design. I'm not naming it something else because it's not my creative property. I didn't come up with a design inspired by the Alice;
I literally used the Alice plate file to build up a case that looks like the Alice. Although, Felicia did cross my mind.
If demand is high, I guess I could call it that. But even though my cousin is named Felicia, this is what pops up in my mind when I hear the name now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM)
It's a new material that I think offers something in terms of durability, sound, feel, and looks.
I've heard many folks who have high-end boards complain about taking it to work. I'm one of those.

I've done my research on past GBs, and I really feel for anyone that's been burned, especially financially. But it also applies to the GB runners.
It's easy to hate on them without knowing what they went through. Or even knowing what they went through and thinking, "Well, he should have done xxx."
But that's in hindsight. I appreciate them because hopefully, I won't fall into those same traps.
I'm super lucky in that I've gotten great advice from people who have had smoooooth GB's, and advice also from people who had rocky ones.
Both kinds of advice are priceless.
People (Huey?) called it the "manufacturer roulette." And it's very true.

But here is my deal: I will let you know what's going on.
Every week or more. I promise it.
Not just during the IC, but even after I take your money. Especially then.
If things are going smooth and there's nothing to report, you'll get that report.
If I'm struggling with personal issues and it affects things, you'll hear that too.
If I take your money, I owe you a message. And I owe you what you paid for. I won't cover anything over with empty promises of fake dates or offer consolation prizes.
I only ask that we all be polite. Please don't say anything in a message you wouldn't say to my face. I'll do the same.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: nephlock on Fri, 12 April 2019, 00:54:55
Ok, so first off:
Manufacturing:
I've been working seriously on trying to turn UHMW into a keyboard case and plate for the last six months. My experience with it before that was cutting sheets into pucks for longboarding gloves. UHMW can be smoothed. It can be machined fine. It is a nightmare for unexperienced machinists in that it turns to spaghetti not dust when CNC'd. Also there is thermal expansion and warping if it's not annealed properly. This can be mitigated by the tool path as well. Check the Irma thread for more, please. I won't be doing injection molding with because of the low numbers, but it is actually possible. I found several companies that do gas infusion for UHMW injection molding and have done it to the tolerances I need. Cost is the issue.
Also, US manufacturing cost sucks. Period. And integrity is seriously wanting.

IP/Biting/Shadiness:
Yuktsi signed off. It's his design, inspired by the EM7. I loved my EM7, but the Alice fixes what I didn't like about it.
This is not a rebranding of his design. I'm not naming it something else, although Felicia did cross my mind.
It's a new material that I think offers something in terms of durability, sound, feel, and looks.
I've heard many folks who have high-end boards complain about taking it to work. I'm one of those.

I've done my research on past GBs, and I really feel for anyone that's been burned, especially financially. But it also applies to the GB runners.
It's easy to hate on them without knowing what they went through. Or even knowing what they went through and thinking, "Well, he should have done xxx."
But that's in hindsight. I appreciate them because hopefully, I won't fall into those same traps.
I'm super lucky in that I've gotten great advice from people who have had smoooooth GB's, and advice also from people who had rocky ones.
Both kinds of advice are priceless.
People (Huey?) called it the "manufacturer roulette." And it's very true.

But here is my deal: I will let you know what's going on.
Every week or more. I promise it.
Not just during the IC, but even after I take your money. Especially then.
If things are going smooth and there's nothing to report, you'll get that report.
If I'm struggling with personal issues and it affects things, you'll hear that too.
If I take your money, I owe you a message. And I owe you what you paid for. I won't cover anything over with empty promises of fake dates or offer consolation prizes.
I only ask that we all be polite. Please don't say anything in a message you wouldn't say to my face. I'll do the same.

Love it. We need more of this on both sides.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Champalan on Fri, 12 April 2019, 00:57:17
Just to clarify things, pcbs are included right? Thanks for doing this
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 01:06:15
Just to clarify things, pcbs are included right? Thanks for doing this

I plan on making it a la carte.
There are people who have the original Alice.
There are those that have aftermarket PCB and/or plates.
There are those that have none.

Also, something that was brought up: USB-C.
I can modify the case to accommodate both. Then offer the new PCB as USB-C.
Imo, I'm fine with mini. But I know that USB is the "future." I've just had too many issues with USB-C PCBs and cables. Not as many with mini.
I'll try to add a poll.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Champalan on Fri, 12 April 2019, 01:10:31
Sweet! That's awesome thank you!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Fri, 12 April 2019, 01:30:26
Just curious what are the pros/cons of using UHMW vs nylon?
Seeing that video of it diffusing light reminded me of the M65-A nylon bottom
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: regionfree on Fri, 12 April 2019, 01:49:01
Just curious what are the pros/cons of using UHMW vs nylon?
Seeing that video of it diffusing light reminded me of the M65-A nylon bottom

didn't some nylon bottom pieces for the M65-A have warping issues during storage (in warm environments)?
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: heyitsqi on Fri, 12 April 2019, 02:17:33
Just to clarify things, pcbs are included right? Thanks for doing this

I plan on making it a la carte.
There are people who have the original Alice.
There are those that have aftermarket PCB and/or plates.
There are those that have none.

Also, something that was brought up: USB-C.
I can modify the case to accommodate both. Then offer the new PCB as USB-C.
Imo, I'm fine with mini. But I know that USB is the "future." I've just had too many issues with USB-C PCBs and cables. Not as many with mini.
I'll try to add a poll.

I would love for the PCB to modernize. All my current boards that I have and the ones I have waiting in GB phase are USB-C as well so I think it's prudent to consider it.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: senryo on Fri, 12 April 2019, 03:51:03
May I know if cerakote is applicable on plastic?
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: vegs on Fri, 12 April 2019, 04:34:40
May I know if cerakote is applicable on plastic?
It is!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Signature on Fri, 12 April 2019, 06:20:50
poll added!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: ninjapirate on Fri, 12 April 2019, 06:57:11
Oooh yes please!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: vicissitude on Fri, 12 April 2019, 08:01:13
another must-buy.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: MoarCoffeePlzzz on Fri, 12 April 2019, 08:13:19
I am in for this as long as I can buy a PCB at the time of the GB.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:06:31
I am in for this as long as I can buy a PCB at the time of the GB.
Yes, you will be able to!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: genesisx on Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:34:00
IC filled, excited about this! Already ordered my plate and PCB, this is exactly what I need...
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: ejewell89 on Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:54:12
normally i'd agree but if you read the OP he got sam's permission first so it doesn't really apply here

Yea like I said I'm not particularly concerned when it comes to this design in particular - having the okay from the creator is for sure the most important thing, I just figured a word of caution may apply regardless because like I wrote in the last paragraph, being a prospect GB/community effort it has to sit well with everyone not just with Sam.

who are the others in the community that should have an opportunity to speak their disapproval/uneasiness?

Let's ask anyone with over 5000 posts.

anyone who assumes post count is a measure of intelligence clearly hasn't met either of us

Speak for yourself.

At least one of you is self aware.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 10:57:23
Please take notice of the poll added to the top of the thread.
USB C white PCB is pretty much certain. BUT the USB cutout is designed to accommodate both USB mini and C without too much space for the male end to get stuck outside the female end. Hate when that happens...
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: noahf on Fri, 12 April 2019, 11:19:50
can you explain how the male end gets stuck outside the female end?  ;D

and im in.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Fri, 12 April 2019, 11:40:02
can you explain how the male end gets stuck outside the female end?  ;D

and im in.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/VIGL4TZjYn2r6/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: dubious on Fri, 12 April 2019, 12:01:51
can you explain how the male end gets stuck outside the female end?  ;D

and im in.

Show Image
(https://media.giphy.com/media/VIGL4TZjYn2r6/giphy.gif)


slow clap
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: JSaintS on Fri, 12 April 2019, 13:05:39
The more I look at it, the more I see that white a some sort of ceramic version of the Alice and I love it!
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Shadow_Key on Fri, 12 April 2019, 14:08:12
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.

and lasered sheets of a cheaper plastic rather than cnc

lubrigante's target price is 100-110 usd

half plate is cheaper than full plate anyway, but obviously that's not gonna account for $250 of difference

they're totally different products that occupy the same niche

My Lubrigante case from Ponoko cost about $60, and they have a $20 off coupon for first time users.  I got a black acrylic with a Gold mirror on one side.  It's the best $40 I've spent all year.

I'm also doing a case from Pololu - a company in Las Vegas, which is not Poloko - although the name is very close.  They made me an acrylic board where the middle layers are clear but the top and bottom are brushed aluminum for a more premium look.   That case cost $93.00, and for a couple more bucks you can do some really nice engraving.

Next I'm having a Sculpteo case made from Okoum plywood.  The size of their sheets is giving me some issues.  If I can get it to fit on 1, its $60, and if I need 2 it will be $120.  Which is probably too much for a "fake wood alice". 

I'm planning on posting pics, and sound tests comparisons for everyone when my PCB and plate arrive. 
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: ReDsNoTDeAd on Fri, 12 April 2019, 14:19:30
Can you post pics of the lubrigante? And were there any weird things you had to do, or just fill out to forms and provide the DXF?
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: kustom3 on Fri, 12 April 2019, 16:55:53
Just curious what are the pros/cons of using UHMW vs nylon?
Seeing that video of it diffusing light reminded me of the M65-A nylon bottom

didn't some nylon bottom pieces for the M65-A have warping issues during storage (in warm environments)?

Yeah nylon is notorious for not handling humidity really well. My nylon M65-A bottom piece arrived warped but once assembled with the alu top piece, it's straight as an arrow.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 12 April 2019, 17:01:35
hmm Lubrigante rumored to be much cheaper, and half plate.

and lasered sheets of a cheaper plastic rather than cnc

lubrigante's target price is 100-110 usd

half plate is cheaper than full plate anyway, but obviously that's not gonna account for $250 of difference

they're totally different products that occupy the same niche

My Lubrigante case from Ponoko cost about $60, and they have a $20 off coupon for first time users.  I got a black acrylic with a Gold mirror on one side.  It's the best $40 I've spent all year.

I'm also doing a case from Pololu - a company in Las Vegas, which is not Poloko - although the name is very close.  They made me an acrylic board where the middle layers are clear but the top and bottom are brushed aluminum for a more premium look.   That case cost $93.00, and for a couple more bucks you can do some really nice engraving.

Next I'm having a Sculpteo case made from Okoum plywood.  The size of their sheets is giving me some issues.  If I can get it to fit on 1, its $60, and if I need 2 it will be $120.  Which is probably too much for a "fake wood alice". 

I'm planning on posting pics, and sound tests comparisons for everyone when my PCB and plate arrive.

lubrigante will have a pcb included but i see your point
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 20:58:42
I think it's great those options are there :)
And one of the cool things about this community is the maker aspect.
This IC offers something different though imo.
I'm not just trying to make a budget Alice. If budget is what you're going for, the files have been open source for a long time, and the Lubrigante is proven to work now.
This is a new material that I think will excel in areas I think are important: sound, feel, durability.

I don't want people to be confused, though, about what this IC is for. If you post pics of the other builds based off the Alice files, please clearly label them as what they are in the post itself. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Fri, 12 April 2019, 22:34:41
seems like a far cry but will a wrist rest be possibly offered?
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 12 April 2019, 22:42:15
seems like a far cry but will a wrist rest be possibly offered?
I値l look into it, but at the minimum I can just draw  one up and make the step files open source. But yeah a wrist rest would be sweet
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Sat, 13 April 2019, 02:33:50
This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

How fast are we expecting? Lubrigante GB ends in a week and im debating which one to jump on. If this IC somehow doesn't reach GB, id regret not jumping on lubrigante >.<
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 13 April 2019, 02:59:47
This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

How fast are we expecting? Lubrigante GB ends in a week and im debating which one to jump on. If this IC somehow doesn't reach GB, id regret not jumping on lubrigante >.<
I won't even get the prototypes in a week. However, this is definitely going to GB. I just value the IC phase, especially with a new material like this.
For the Lubrigante, you're getting an Alice layout keyboard in an acrylic case for a good price. I wouldn't try to choose between the two if I were you.
If you can swing it financially, go ahead and get in on the Lubrigante while you can. This kit will also be available and offer a different feel, look and durability if that's what you're after.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Sat, 13 April 2019, 03:10:11
For sure, thanks for the speedy replies. Definitely want this one since it痴 going to be a more solid board. :D
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Randalljai on Sat, 13 April 2019, 03:42:42
Is there a limit to the GB?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Sat, 13 April 2019, 06:42:10
May I know if cerakote is applicable on plastic?

They have a specific air dry formula for using on plastics..I think its not made specifically for plastic, but Im currently talking with a gun company and the guy says he can cerakote my Dolch pac keyboard case..
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 13 April 2019, 07:53:47
Is there a limit to the GB?
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I'm optimistic and want to say "no limit," but this is also my first GB. Other, more experienced people, might have advice as to why I should limit it.
The first thing that comes to mind is QC and timelines. Limiting the number lets me make sure that every board that goes out is perfect. Also, I would have to
eat the cost of anyone that backs out, and I can't afford that.
But optimistically, exactly as many people that want one can have one. And then I'll have extras for late-comers.

May I know if cerakote is applicable on plastic?

They have a specific air dry formula for using on plastics..I think its not made specifically for plastic, but Im currently talking with a gun company and the guy says he can cerakote my Dolch pac keyboard case..

Right, so the person I talked to specifically said it is proven with ABS, and UHMW has similar heat tolerances to ABS.
Both are right at the lower limit, though, of what is possible with Cerakote.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: CrazyNun on Sat, 13 April 2019, 18:04:28
This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

How fast are we expecting? Lubrigante GB ends in a week and im debating which one to jump on. If this IC somehow doesn't reach GB, id regret not jumping on lubrigante >.<

I could only see the GB for the PCB and Lubrigante's github files...is there a GB for the acrylic case too?  (I couldn't find it)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Sat, 13 April 2019, 19:20:17
This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

How fast are we expecting? Lubrigante GB ends in a week and im debating which one to jump on. If this IC somehow doesn't reach GB, id regret not jumping on lubrigante >.<

I could only see the GB for the PCB and Lubrigante's github files...is there a GB for the acrylic case too?  (I couldn't find it)

Rather not post links confusing people but the lubricante is on mechmarket
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Randalljai on Sat, 13 April 2019, 20:39:14
Will this be branded as tgr just with a different material? Using the same manufacturer as thr original and etc. Or will this be branded as something else?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sun, 14 April 2019, 01:57:54
Will this be branded as tgr just with a different material? Using the same manufacturer as thr original and etc. Or will this be branded as something else?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Different manufacturer.
No branding.
It's not my original design.
Putting a name on it to me is disingenuous. Someone new to the scene might think I came up with it, when all I did was try to recreate one for myself from the original designer's open source files.

Yuktsi gave the go ahead to share it with others, but it doesn't have his magic spit on it, so I can't put TGR on it.

Also, I don't usually like branding, but the TGR logo is pretty darn nice. I've tried to come with something that aesthetic, but to no avail.

I could as a joke put a vector outline of a crayon'd attempt at the logo, signifying my childish attempt to recreate the original for myself.
But I actually think the board will be far from a plastic toy. I hope it to be a tank you can beat up for years and years and still enjoy.
Other cheaper options are great for what they are. But I wouldn't put it in a soft bag and take it to work everyday.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: mdlt97 on Sun, 14 April 2019, 03:46:08
is the material that expensive to work with? idk much about it just seems pretty expensive since the aluminium version was not that much higher in price

interesting for sure
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: vodan on Sun, 14 April 2019, 06:37:16
Already have a PCB but not the plate, so would be great if there is an option to buy the case and the plate, but not the PCB.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: CrazyNun on Sun, 14 April 2019, 08:17:27
This IC is not going to last very long. I plan to start the GB as soon as prototypes are proven to not explode or have other
glaring defects/oversights.

How fast are we expecting? Lubrigante GB ends in a week and im debating which one to jump on. If this IC somehow doesn't reach GB, id regret not jumping on lubrigante >.<

I could only see the GB for the PCB and Lubrigante's github files...is there a GB for the acrylic case too?  (I couldn't find it)

Rather not post links confusing people but the lubricante is on mechmarket

Yeah, sorry for posting about this at all on this IC, just couldn't see...thanks for the info
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sun, 14 April 2019, 10:03:58
is the material that expensive to work with? idk much about it just seems pretty expensive since the aluminium version was not that much higher in price

interesting for sure
Machinists don't want to try anything complicated with it

Already have a PCB but not the plate, so would be great if there is an option to buy the case and the plate, but not the PCB.
Yes. There are others in similar situation who can choose just the case
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Petch on Mon, 15 April 2019, 11:28:56
I'm interested, hopefully it's no more than $350 for the case, plate and PCB though.

Is there any chance of a completely clear case?
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Mon, 15 April 2019, 13:59:45
I'm interested, hopefully it's no more than $350 for the case, plate and PCB though.

Is there any chance of a completely clear case?
Raw UHMW is the white from the video in the op. So clear is not possible. 
And just hfor clarification, black is black all the way through, not painted or surface treatment.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Mon, 15 April 2019, 15:41:13
I'm interested, hopefully it's no more than $350 for the case, plate and PCB though.

Is there any chance of a completely clear case?
Raw UHMW is the white from the video in the op. So clear is not possible. 
And just hfor clarification, black is black all the way through, not painted or surface treatment.

Any ETAs on prototyping? Who will be producing the PCB? :O
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: p_blaze on Mon, 15 April 2019, 15:49:39
friendship ended with Irma

UHMW Alice is new best friend
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 16 April 2019, 02:00:29
Any ETAs on prototyping? Who will be producing the PCB? :O
I hope to get the prototypes in before the end of the month, but i have no hard date yet.
A couple I can hand deliver for feedback.

The PCB is produced by projectkeyboard. I was impressed with the plate I got from the GB, and I'm looking forward to this PCB.
Please give me feedback for color or design options for the PCB.
I remember seeing pics of a prototype translucent purple Alice PCB, I think. But wasn't that missing the ground plane or something? It looked cool, though.
I'm not sure how much the PCB will show through with the thickness of the UHMW case, but a pretty PCB is always good if it works well.

On an aside:
VIA is not taking requests right now, but OMG! I used it with an Aegis build I just finished, and VIA is the truth!
I literally said out loud, "Uh, do I just close it?" So EASY!
QMK configurator is great, too. Heck, I even really like bootloader for how easy it is. But if we can get VIA somehow for the PCB, even down the road, it's worth it.

friendship ended with Irma

UHMW Alice is new best friend

You can have more than one friend ;)
But I understand about having a bestest friend.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: thornkin on Tue, 16 April 2019, 03:22:08
Motherboard requests:
1) QMK (I don't know Via so that may be an option)
2) USB-C please
3) Consider hot-swap or at least capable of adding Kailh hot swap to it.

For those considering Lubrigante, it is closed now.  This is your option.

Sent from my Mediatek MTK8173 Chromebook using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: _ODIN_ on Tue, 16 April 2019, 03:27:08
Motherboard requests:
1) QMK (I don't know Via so that may be an option)
2) USB-C please
3) Consider hot-swap or at least capable of adding Kailh hot swap to it.

For those considering Lubrigante, it is closed now.  This is your option.

Sent from my Mediatek MTK8173 Chromebook using Tapatalk
I can agree with the first two options but I would prefer a soldered PCB.

Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: hormbre on Tue, 16 April 2019, 03:39:32
Are there arrows on the right bottom ?
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 16 April 2019, 04:02:34
Motherboard requests:
1) QMK (I don't know Via so that may be an option)
2) USB-C please
3) Consider hot-swap or at least capable of adding Kailh hot swap to it.
For those considering Lubrigante, it is closed now.  This is your option.
Sent from my Mediatek MTK8173 Chromebook using Tapatalk
1) yes
2) yes, possibly mini option as well
3) Sorry no. Please see below.

Lubrigante is closed, but if you want an acrylic case, those files are open source.

I can agree with the first two options but I would prefer a soldered PCB.

Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk
For me personally, hot swap is not for this board.
It痴 great for testing out what you like. Tofu RGB is a well supported option at a great price.
I have one and use it for that and for breaking in switches.
Hot swap is great and convenient until it痴 not.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 16 April 2019, 04:03:46
Are there arrows on the right bottom ?
No, that痴 the EM7. Also an amazing keyboard.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Tue, 16 April 2019, 12:08:49
Any ETAs on prototyping? Who will be producing the PCB? :O
I hope to get the prototypes in before the end of the month, but i have no hard date yet.
A couple I can hand deliver for feedback.

The PCB is produced by projectkeyboard. I was impressed with the plate I got from the GB, and I'm looking forward to this PCB.
Please give me feedback for color or design options for the PCB.
I remember seeing pics of a prototype translucent purple Alice PCB, I think. But wasn't that missing the ground plane or something? It looked cool, though.
I'm not sure how much the PCB will show through with the thickness of the UHMW case, but a pretty PCB is always good if it works well.

On an aside:
VIA is not taking requests right now, but OMG! I used it with an Aegis build I just finished, and VIA is the truth!
I literally said out loud, "Uh, do I just close it?" So EASY!
QMK configurator is great, too. Heck, I even really like bootloader for how easy it is. But if we can get VIA somehow for the PCB, even down the road, it's worth it.

friendship ended with Irma

UHMW Alice is new best friend

You can have more than one friend ;)
But I understand about having a bestest friend.

I've always been a fan of wilba's PCBs. Black and copper is super clean. Although since the case is a milky white, it might be better to go white/copper.
And I'm not 100% sure on the ground for that PCB but it is amazing. I'd be okay with any PCB that looked like that, any color lol.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1912/29947260167_1deaae1fd5_o.jpg)

I've personally never had issues with configuring QMK but i can see the huge benefit of VIA. Definitely makes things easier.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: iammeuru on Wed, 17 April 2019, 02:35:28
Pretty sure I could be into this... Depends on timing... So many amazing boards, including the Irma as well :)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: TuCZnak on Wed, 17 April 2019, 09:26:25
So, which is coming first, this or Irma? Because now you confused me and I don't know which one I want ;)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 17 April 2019, 12:08:50
So, which is coming first, this or Irma? Because now you confused me and I don't know which one I want ;)

Well, honestly, with the new material, I won't know which design will need revisions until I get the prototypes in hand and have them Cerakoted and whatnot.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: RaySasQuach on Wed, 17 April 2019, 19:34:12
I am really looking forward to seeing and buying this, for the PCB color, I'd say since the base color is white, white with copper traces does make the most sense or even translucent white for the RGB to diffuse better if possible.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 17 April 2019, 23:57:10
Torn between Cerakote and raw white UHMW :-\
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Lepr3chaun on Thu, 18 April 2019, 22:54:25
I知 in. Looks great!
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: g_mr_p on Fri, 19 April 2019, 08:32:09
Interested, especially in the cerakote option.  Looking forward to seeing some prototypes.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: MeloDet on Fri, 19 April 2019, 11:34:41
That pcb looks dope, but iirc transparent/translucent pcbs are pretty expensive to make. Not worth the extra price imo. Would rather either a white or black pcb with visible copper traces
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: jil_jil32 on Fri, 19 April 2019, 15:02:51
Would love to have USB - C and no branding. It will look sexy in white.
I'm down for this.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 20 April 2019, 14:13:27
Cerakote guy is experimenting with a bunch of UHMW I sent him. He痴 in NorCal too, so I can arrange for Cerakote pretty easily before the prototypes are in the hands of testers.
I plan on doing some gnarly stuff to one as well, just for my own purposes. Nothing nefarious...
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: fanovorc on Sun, 21 April 2019, 02:45:08
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sun, 21 April 2019, 03:40:15
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: wixxzblu on Sun, 21 April 2019, 05:41:55
im down for a raw vibranium alice  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: macclack on Sun, 21 April 2019, 08:38:25
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

Varmillo did a magnesium case on the VA68MG. I知 pretty sure it was cast rather than CNCd and there was a YouTube video that showed how they did it.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 21 April 2019, 09:31:28
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

Varmillo did a magnesium case on the VA68MG. I知 pretty sure it was cast rather than CNCd and there was a YouTube video that showed how they did it.

Yeah I think I also remember them saying they would never do magnesium again bc the failure rate was astonishingly high
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: fanovorc on Mon, 22 April 2019, 04:57:23
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

u r right buddy!
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 22 April 2019, 14:51:54
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

MAR-300 when
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 22 April 2019, 15:41:00
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

I know you are being partly facetious, but maybe stuff like UHMW bottom, alu top will be interesting for future GBs. Since the bottom is usually a big slab/wedge it might be the "best of both worlds" for sound without being subject to warping like a top piece might be.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Petch on Mon, 22 April 2019, 16:45:11
I'm interested in it,but why don't supply a metal option?I think it will be  welcomed :))

If I offer a metal option, it will be because it offers something different than the original or different from what anyone else is already doing/has done.
For instance, a damascus steel case Alice, or a magnesium alloy Alice, or a titanium/carbon fiber Alice, or a vibranium & adamantium Alice.
I may still do all of those, if I can get the pricing down. If you know a way I can do it, please let me know.

I know you are being partly facetious, but maybe stuff like UHMW bottom, alu top will be interesting for future GBs. Since the bottom is usually a big slab/wedge it might be the "best of both worlds" for sound without being subject to warping like a top piece might be.

this would be cool
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Ashardalon on Mon, 22 April 2019, 18:13:48
Cerakote guy is experimenting with a bunch of UHMW I sent him. He痴 in NorCal too, so I can arrange for Cerakote pretty easily before the prototypes are in the hands of testers.
I plan on doing some gnarly stuff to one as well, just for my own purposes. Nothing nefarious...

Will it be Tyson that's working on the cerakoting? He's done quite a lot of work for the keyboard community regarding cerakoting.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: swangful on Mon, 22 April 2019, 21:39:05
Cerakote guy is experimenting with a bunch of UHMW I sent him. He痴 in NorCal too, so I can arrange for Cerakote pretty easily before the prototypes are in the hands of testers.
I plan on doing some gnarly stuff to one as well, just for my own purposes. Nothing nefarious...

Will it be Tyson that's working on the cerakoting? He's done quite a lot of work for the keyboard community regarding cerakoting.

Tyson stopped. Tyson is also in TX not norcal.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 23 April 2019, 14:40:57
I know you are being partly facetious, but maybe stuff like UHMW bottom, alu top will be interesting for future GBs. Since the bottom is usually a big slab/wedge it might be the "best of both worlds" for sound without being subject to warping like a top piece might be.
You池e absolutely right. Only partly facetious. I have considers doing the aluminum top and I知 still considering it.
A Damascus billet in the size of a weight is actually not as crazy expensive as it would seem if you just go with a random pattern from the supplier/forge. And it痴 stainless so...
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: yicaoyimu on Tue, 23 April 2019, 20:38:39
I'm in.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Furikurichemy on Tue, 23 April 2019, 20:48:12
You池e absolutely right. Only partly facetious. I have considers doing the aluminum top and I知 still considering it.
A Damascus billet in the size of a weight is actually not as crazy expensive as it would seem if you just go with a random pattern from the supplier/forge. And it痴 stainless so...

A Damascus billet weight would be a great add on!
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: p_blaze on Wed, 24 April 2019, 17:50:02
You池e absolutely right. Only partly facetious. I have considers doing the aluminum top and I知 still considering it.
A Damascus billet in the size of a weight is actually not as crazy expensive as it would seem if you just go with a random pattern from the supplier/forge. And it痴 stainless so...

A Damascus billet weight would be a great add on!

Would be nice to get some Mokuti versions as well
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: SleepIsAllINeed on Sun, 28 April 2019, 19:20:19
Hoping to see some pictures of the prototypes soon  :)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: GigaFlop on Sun, 28 April 2019, 20:09:58
oh ****, I like this idea
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Mon, 29 April 2019, 02:39:38
So stuff has slowed down.
I've got offers from manufacturers saying they can make the case, but I've asked for proof in the form of a 13" x 5" 6 degree wedge CNC'd from UHMW to prove it.
No ETA on prototypes att, but I am asking for a raw aluminum one to mix and match tops/bottoms to check fit, tolerances, sound, and overall sturdiness.
Had some personal issues to deal with the last week as some may have seen on reddit, but I'm gtg now.
If you know what I'm talking about: her name is Jane.
I'll miss her, but she'll be in a good home. And maybe we'll meet again someday, and she'll tell me how she's been.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:27:17
KK. So here it as simple as possible--please reply with either a "1" or "2" from the following options:

1) Go with polycarbonate for now.

I found a manufacturer than can get close to Singa PC quality.
PCBs are locked down and ready to go.
Plates are quick and easy.
If we go this route, I start a PC Alice GB immediately and the projected price is much lower than UHMW.

*I'll use the funds from this GB to immediately purchase the necessary equipment to make a nitrogen infusion injection molding setup to manufacturer the UHMW cases myself or at least pay for the initial tooling and mold costs for a US-based factory to do it. Either way, I will be hands on with the production.

2) Wait it out.

This is what I've been doing so far. Hoping a manufacturer actually puts out a good product after I pay them for prototypes.
This option is likely only feasible for the next month or so, as I'm paying out of pocket for all this and holding on to the money of a couple early backers.
The current factory may actually produce something, but I haven't heard back in a couple weeks.
Three other offers have said their engineers can do it, but no one has shown proof with what I asked (13" x 5" x 6 degree CNC'd UHMW wedge).

Please reply 1 or 2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: LightningXI on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:29:06
KK. So here it as simple as possible--please reply with either a "1" or "2" from the following options:

1) Go with polycarbonate for now.

I found a manufacturer than can get close to Singa PC quality.
PCBs are locked down and ready to go.
Plates are quick and easy.
If we go this route, I start a PC Alice GB immediately and the projected price is much lower than UHMW.

*I'll use the funds from this GB to immediately purchase the necessary equipment to make a nitrogen infusion injection molding setup to manufacturer the UHMW cases myself or at least pay for the initial tooling and mold costs for a US-based factory to do it. Either way, I will be hands on with the production.

2) Wait it out.

This is what I've been doing so far. Hoping a manufacturer actually puts out a good product after I pay them for prototypes.
This option is likely only feasible for the next month or so, as I'm paying out of pocket for all this and holding on to the money of a couple early backers.
The current factory may actually produce something, but I haven't heard back in a couple weeks.
Three other offers have said their engineers can do it, but no one has shown proof with what I asked (13" x 5" x 6 degree CNC'd UHMW wedge).

Please reply 1 or 2

2

(doing 1 would be taking the easy path out; beat 2 to bits before switching to 1)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: XtReeM1337n355 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:29:07
2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Create_alt_delete on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:29:55
1

If you are planning to use the funds from PC GB to buy equipment to do UHMW yourself, I say go for it. You can always do a UHMW GB later. There will be demand for both.

Additionally, it doesnt sound like the manufacturers you've spoken to have the level of confidence you do. I'd rather have you behind the helm for UHMW because of this.

If you do go with option 1, I assume you'd make the Irma yourself as well, correct?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: typischt on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:30:48
2
Title: My vote is not 1.
Post by: Villa on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:31:54
2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: haingo1094 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:32:15
2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: pcire on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:33:14
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: lolafineday on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:42:18
Both, do a polycarb run now. Then when the time comes do a run with the other material.

Right now I would go with 1, because of the uncertainty of the material for me.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: King4477 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:43:25
2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: juaninamilli on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:43:52
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: macclack on Sat, 04 May 2019, 12:53:00
2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: neojonathan on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:09:19
Ah this is a hard choice....but I would like to choose "1"
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: te_dulce on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:11:46
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: raphaelf on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:21:09
1

If you're really planning to use the money for the molding then it's by far the best option. Number 2 might end up nowhere.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: finalarcadia on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:22:58
1

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: gabbbe on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:23:29
2
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: SleepIsAllINeed on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:28:26
1 if it helps to get to 2 quicker. But preferably 2.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:34:59
Your initial idea is way cooler and it's what you want so you should probably run that down until you feel like it's just not realistic before going for 1. However, I was never personally much of a prospect buyer here - however if you go with option 1, I might be, because the price will actually be something that interests me.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: alveeno on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:37:09
1 polycarbonate is dope
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: LogicBomb on Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:42:21
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: befbef on Sat, 04 May 2019, 14:02:50
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 04 May 2019, 14:12:17
1

i'll probably have to pass if you run one soon cause i'm out of cash but i think this is the better option at the moment
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: reidd on Sat, 04 May 2019, 14:13:46
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 04 May 2019, 14:17:26
1.  I think you have some momentum going.  2 seems like a stall that could halt greater accomplishments
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: RaySasQuach on Sat, 04 May 2019, 14:20:06
1 unless 2 gets somewhere quickly. It also would ptobably be better in the longrun to just procure funds and equipment for the UHMW molding first.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: spyruf on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:01:46
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: rossfromfriends on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:02:06
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: XtReeM1337n355 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:04:55
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:13:14
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

p sure most people just want it now
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: TuCZnak on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:14:24
1

Then do Irma in UHMW with newly purchased equipment
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: ArchDill on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:14:26
Whew.. I would be in for a PC
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Create_alt_delete on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:25:26
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
I was just thinking it would be nice if people gave their reason for picking 2. Makes me wonder if everyone read OP's post.

He says he'll use money from PC GB to purchase equipment to do UHMW himself later.

I too would prefer UHMW over PC. Considering the issues with the manufacturers and financing, I think option 1 is the best way to make sure the UHMW happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:33:23
KK. So here it as simple as possible--please reply with either a "1" or "2" from the following options:

1) Go with polycarbonate for now.

I found a manufacturer than can get close to Singa PC quality.
PCBs are locked down and ready to go.
Plates are quick and easy.
If we go this route, I start a PC Alice GB immediately and the projected price is much lower than UHMW.

*I'll use the funds from this GB to immediately purchase the necessary equipment to make a nitrogen infusion injection molding setup to manufacturer the UHMW cases myself or at least pay for the initial tooling and mold costs for a US-based factory to do it. Either way, I will be hands on with the production.

2) Wait it out.

This is what I've been doing so far. Hoping a manufacturer actually puts out a good product after I pay them for prototypes.
This option is likely only feasible for the next month or so, as I'm paying out of pocket for all this and holding on to the money of a couple early backers.
The current factory may actually produce something, but I haven't heard back in a couple weeks.
Three other offers have said their engineers can do it, but no one has shown proof with what I asked (13" x 5" x 6 degree CNC'd UHMW wedge).

Please reply 1 or 2

2

(doing 1 would be taking the easy path out; beat 2 to bits before switching to 1)

2 for as long as is financially sound for you. I will be waiting for the UHMW version regardless.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: rossfromfriends on Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:55:29
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

went with 1 because i wanna support jaxx pursue uhmw and a pc run is a lily pad to help him get there. a little financial support from the community while still benefiting as a community sounds like a sound idea imo. and as puddsy said, im admittedly a little impatient.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:10:52
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

p sure most people just want it now

Also money
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Sinapanis on Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:50:04
1. Personally, I'm more interested in a PC version for cost reasons. I'm sure plenty of other people are of the same opinion. Since doing a PC run would act as a stepping stone for your original goal of a UHMW version, I personally see this as a win-win for everybody involved.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: p_blaze on Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:51:11
1 if we are talking somewhere near Lubrigante prices

2 if you think that it is safer for your finances that way, because despite whether I want PC Alice or not, I can't in good faith ask for you to stick a limb out and take the risk of 2 GBs and production.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: victorpre on Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:02:22
1

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: nulltorious on Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:05:56
1 - Lower risk as material is proven (obtaining & CNC). Also fastest path to having a product ready and opens up UHMW for experimentation in the future.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: vtachkov on Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:19:37
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: RaySasQuach on Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:26:08
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
For me it's more like, I'm fine with waiting and as long as he uses the money from the PC version to make the UHMW version like he says he will, then I'd be willing to wait a little bit longer just get be sure I get a proper UHMW version. And I may not even get the PC version, but I think a lot of people will. If option 1 was PC and slim chance of a UHMW version happening, then I'd pick option 2, but afaik both versions will happen if option 1 is picked.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: lakeboredom on Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:38:36
2  Prefer the solid white material
Title: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: juaninamilli on Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:06:27
I own no PC boards and would prefer to see this amount of detail used on a proven material, over one that has yet to be proven. Especially since the manu doesn稚 seem overly confident about the project. I壇 rather have a run go through with a new designer, having the least amount of variables.
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
Title: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: juaninamilli on Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:07:21
(Deleted cause I知 dumb and double posted)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: scoopbb on Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:10:13
1. cheaper, easier, better value for me personally
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:20:09
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: lolafineday on Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:24:59
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.
I love this ic because it痴 an Alice layout. I didn稚 support this because of the material really, although it was really interesting.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:09:53
I vote 1 :)

I would love to get a PC Alice AND a plastic Alice.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: p_blaze on Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:11:44
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.

I didn't realize that 2 will continue to cost you out of pocket

Definitely 1 in that scenario, I'm sure many will be willing to jump on a PC Alice
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Furikurichemy on Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:23:30
1
I'd grab both honestly and if 1 makes the uhmw more feasible down the road, it's the better option I think.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Exfinite on Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:28:11
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: slxdegrees on Sat, 04 May 2019, 20:03:34
2

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: unluckyxiii on Sat, 04 May 2019, 20:28:27
1 - less stress on yourself, a faster something for people who want it, you致e a plan already. 2 is basically wait it out and burning your own money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: onlinegamer0 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 22:02:14
1

Mainly because cost and I'm impatient  ;D Definitely not opposed to 2 but leaning towards 1.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: briano1905 on Sat, 04 May 2019, 23:55:58
1

I'm also down for aluminium plate & weight to reduce cost even more :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: ryou965 on Sun, 05 May 2019, 10:48:23
1 but would love to choose carbon fiber if possible
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: FunTyme on Sun, 05 May 2019, 10:58:13
1

Don稚 rush option 2 and keep planning and researching.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:03:39
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: lolafineday on Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:04:46
Wow I can稚 wait to have a polycarb Alice, hopefully this buy can go smoothly, and products arrive during summer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: senryo on Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:53:22
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: g_mr_p on Sun, 05 May 2019, 13:07:32
Was initially interested because of 2, fine with the other if it will help make that happen.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: jumpmineralwater on Sun, 05 May 2019, 13:20:43
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: snurrebassen on Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:12:13
1 :)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: mrpokemone on Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:35:14
1
Title: Ambivalence.
Post by: Villa on Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:55:56
I concur with these statements.

I didn't realize that 2 will continue to cost you out of pocket

Was initially interested because of 2, fine with the other if it will help make that happen.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: vonswoopington on Sun, 05 May 2019, 15:37:03
1

No need to put yourself at financial risk. Lower cost and faster delivery is also a plus.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Sun, 05 May 2019, 16:26:40
1

No need to put yourself at financial risk. Lower cost and faster delivery is also a plus.

Amen to this. I vote 1 as well
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: jil_jil32 on Sun, 05 May 2019, 16:43:15
2.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sun, 05 May 2019, 19:24:35
*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

IMO don't bother. Catering to some greedy people on the Internet like me is less important than taking care of yourself.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: glubazoid on Sun, 05 May 2019, 20:15:43
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: vegs on Mon, 06 May 2019, 00:28:04
2

Edit: if 2 isn't viable for you, then by all means I support 1 too :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: mrpetrov on Mon, 06 May 2019, 01:07:24
Jaxx, if this is any sort of a stretch for you financially definitely do not take this sort of risk for yourself and your family.  It is not worth risking financial security for a keyboard none of us actually need (vs want). 1 all the way mate.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: tusing on Mon, 06 May 2019, 04:01:57
2

Edit: from a rational, realistic, and logistically sound point of view, 1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: fanovorc on Mon, 06 May 2019, 05:31:01
1 will be fine,I think more people know and get Alice will help improve the manufacture of UHMW Alice,and why not turn to Chinese community?there are many very excellent engineers and makers in Chinese keyboard community,maybe they have better solutions XD.
Title: Re: Plastic Alice
Post by: demonahz on Mon, 06 May 2019, 07:32:14
Ok, so first off:
Manufacturing:
I've been working seriously on trying to turn UHMW into a keyboard case and plate for the last six months. My experience with it before that was cutting sheets into pucks for longboarding gloves. UHMW can be smoothed. It can be machined fine. It is a nightmare for unexperienced machinists in that it turns to spaghetti not dust when CNC'd. Also there is thermal expansion and warping if it's not annealed properly. This can be mitigated by the tool path as well. Check the Irma thread for more, please. I won't be doing injection molding with because of the low numbers, but it is actually possible. I found several companies that do gas infusion for UHMW injection molding and have done it to the tolerances I need. Cost is the issue.
Also, US manufacturing cost sucks. Period. And integrity is seriously wanting.

IP/Biting/Shadiness:
Yuktsi signed off. It's his design, inspired by the EM7. I loved my EM7, but the Alice fixes what I didn't like about it.
This is not a rebranding of his design. I'm not naming it something else, although Felicia did cross my mind.
It's a new material that I think offers something in terms of durability, sound, feel, and looks.
I've heard many folks who have high-end boards complain about taking it to work. I'm one of those.

I've done my research on past GBs, and I really feel for anyone that's been burned, especially financially. But it also applies to the GB runners.
It's easy to hate on them without knowing what they went through. Or even knowing what they went through and thinking, "Well, he should have done xxx."
But that's in hindsight. I appreciate them because hopefully, I won't fall into those same traps.
I'm super lucky in that I've gotten great advice from people who have had smoooooth GB's, and advice also from people who had rocky ones.
Both kinds of advice are priceless.
People (Huey?) called it the "manufacturer roulette." And it's very true.

But here is my deal: I will let you know what's going on.
Every week or more. I promise it.
Not just during the IC, but even after I take your money. Especially then.
If things are going smooth and there's nothing to report, you'll get that report.
If I'm struggling with personal issues and it affects things, you'll hear that too.
If I take your money, I owe you a message. And I owe you what you paid for. I won't cover anything over with empty promises of fake dates or offer consolation prizes.
I only ask that we all be polite. Please don't say anything in a message you wouldn't say to my face. I'll do the same.

Love it. We need more of this on both sides.

this is why I'm giving you my money. I loved the attitude and you can count on me to support this. thanks for it :)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Rafa_n on Mon, 06 May 2019, 08:42:13
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: NRbigfoot on Mon, 06 May 2019, 08:48:10
1 especially if 2 would put you at financial risk and might not result in anything due to manufacturing issues. I'd support using those funds from the PC gb and using for IRMA as well
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: lolafineday on Mon, 06 May 2019, 08:55:09
It seems like 1 is the popular choice, so what type of material will you offer for the plate? Half plate? RGB on pcb to diffuse on pc?
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: ideus on Mon, 06 May 2019, 09:58:19
I really admire the attitude of this GB's leader. While most, not all, GB runners put a great effort on their works, this sets a milestone for extra attention to details and communication. Regarding the proposal, while nice and interesting is well beyond my personal range of expenditure on KBs. Mainly while I have what I really use. So, good luck.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: yicaoyimu on Mon, 06 May 2019, 10:43:37
1
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: JohnWest on Mon, 06 May 2019, 20:46:49
1. Slow and steady mate.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 07 May 2019, 04:04:00
OK. SO...

Yuktsi also recommended "1."

And I think I need to reiterate this so people understand:
polycarbonate is not a CHEAP option. Or easy. There is are reasons why Yuktsi didn't run a polycarbonate Alice GB.
Also, this is NOT the Lubrigante. If that price is all you care about, please just MAKE ONE. The files are open source. Laser cutting and acrylic material are cheap.

This will be a premium keyboard at what is to me a premium price.
A price at which--being completely honest--I still don't come out ahead compared to what I've spent on these projects. But I'll be locking the price down because people will never really want to spend more than a certain amount for something that isn't anodized aluminum. There is no getting around that preconception.
But hopefully, if enough sell, I will have funds to develop the UHMW boards.

Again, being totally open: polycarbonate is great. People who have the high end polycarb boards love them for a reason. They sell for higher prices sometimes than the metal versions for a reason. Polycarbonate sounds great, is durable, looks great with RGB, and is just sexy to feel up on. I get it.

But I'm not going to give up on UHMW or injection molding. It's coming, and I want it as soon as possible.
I already don't sleep, but if I can get to be the actual manufacturer, I assure you, I will be TIRELESS with this thing.
And if there's one thing I've learned that the community does much better than any other niche hobby I've been a part of--it's talk ****.
Which is great for correcting things, if you can take things constructively.
So I plan to blog/vlog the process when I get going. It'll be a way for people to check in on the project in real time, but it will also be helpful for me to get over barriers and avoid pitfalls.

Okay, so here it is...I'll be temporarily halting the updates to this IC while the "PC Alice GB" goes up later today or tomorrow.
It will be about a 90-day lead time because pretty much everything is already set up with PCBs, plates, and the manufacturer of the case parts and weights.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: vegs on Tue, 07 May 2019, 05:06:39
OK. SO...

Yuktsi also recommended "1."

And I think I need to reiterate this so people understand:
polycarbonate is not a CHEAP option. Or easy. There is are reasons why Yuktsi didn't run a polycarbonate Alice GB.
Also, this is NOT the Lubrigante. If that price is all you care about, please just MAKE ONE. The files are open source. Laser cutting and acrylic material are cheap.

This will be a premium keyboard at what is to me a premium price.
A price at which--being completely honest--I still don't come out ahead compared to what I've spent on these projects. But I'll be locking the price down because people will never really want to spend more than a certain amount for something that isn't anodized aluminum. There is no getting around that preconception.
But hopefully, if enough sell, I will have funds to develop the UHMW boards.

Again, being totally open: polycarbonate is great. People who have the high end polycarb boards love them for a reason. They sell for higher prices sometimes than the metal versions for a reason. Polycarbonate sounds great, is durable, looks great with RGB, and is just sexy to feel up on. I get it.

But I'm not going to give up on UHMW or injection molding. It's coming, and I want it as soon as possible.
I already don't sleep, but if I can get to be the actual manufacturer, I assure you, I will be TIRELESS with this thing.
And if there's one thing I've learned that the community does much better than any other niche hobby I've been a part of--it's talk ****.
Which is great for correcting things, if you can take things constructively.
So I plan to blog/vlog the process when I get going. It'll be a way for people to check in on the project in real time, but it will also be helpful for me to get over barriers and avoid pitfalls.

Okay, so here it is...I'll be temporarily halting the updates to this IC while the "PC Alice GB" goes up later today or tomorrow.
It will be about a 90-day lead time because pretty much everything is already set up with PCBs, plates, and the manufacturer of the case parts and weights.
woo!
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Furikurichemy on Tue, 07 May 2019, 06:19:15
Wow! so excited now for this. You can count me in on the PC and the UHMW when the time comes.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Tue, 07 May 2019, 08:37:48
OK. SO...

Yuktsi also recommended "1."

And I think I need to reiterate this so people understand:
polycarbonate is not a CHEAP option. Or easy. There is are reasons why Yuktsi didn't run a polycarbonate Alice GB.
Also, this is NOT the Lubrigante. If that price is all you care about, please just MAKE ONE. The files are open source. Laser cutting and acrylic material are cheap.

This will be a premium keyboard at what is to me a premium price.
A price at which--being completely honest--I still don't come out ahead compared to what I've spent on these projects. But I'll be locking the price down because people will never really want to spend more than a certain amount for something that isn't anodized aluminum. There is no getting around that preconception.
But hopefully, if enough sell, I will have funds to develop the UHMW boards.

Again, being totally open: polycarbonate is great. People who have the high end polycarb boards love them for a reason. They sell for higher prices sometimes than the metal versions for a reason. Polycarbonate sounds great, is durable, looks great with RGB, and is just sexy to feel up on. I get it.

But I'm not going to give up on UHMW or injection molding. It's coming, and I want it as soon as possible.
I already don't sleep, but if I can get to be the actual manufacturer, I assure you, I will be TIRELESS with this thing.
And if there's one thing I've learned that the community does much better than any other niche hobby I've been a part of--it's talk ****.
Which is great for correcting things, if you can take things constructively.
So I plan to blog/vlog the process when I get going. It'll be a way for people to check in on the project in real time, but it will also be helpful for me to get over barriers and avoid pitfalls.

Okay, so here it is...I'll be temporarily halting the updates to this IC while the "PC Alice GB" goes up later today or tomorrow.
It will be about a 90-day lead time because pretty much everything is already set up with PCBs, plates, and the manufacturer of the case parts and weights.

Hell yeah, let's goooo bois
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: slxdegrees on Tue, 07 May 2019, 08:44:01
Okay, so here it is...I'll be temporarily halting the updates to this IC while the "PC Alice GB" goes up later today or tomorrow.
It will be about a 90-day lead time because pretty much everything is already set up with PCBs, plates, and the manufacturer of the case parts and weights.
Lezzgo bois.


Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: andrewregal on Wed, 08 May 2019, 01:55:20
I think a PC Alice will be awesome and I'm totally for paying a premium for a well made board :thumb:
Title: Question for Jaxxstatic
Post by: Villa on Wed, 08 May 2019, 02:13:08
Will this thread be updated after the PC run, or will there be a new thread altogether?
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Wed, 08 May 2019, 02:27:10
Awwww yeah! Thank you for explaining your thought process behind this, I'm very excited for the GB thread and (hopefully) joining it successfully.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: DeadlyPoison on Wed, 08 May 2019, 05:35:33
It would be nice to have it all in aluminum and place an acrylic diffuser under the case.
like this, I think it's the optimal solution for the lighting look.
(https://i.imgur.com/fN8oVNU.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Sinapanis on Wed, 08 May 2019, 06:08:31
It would be nice to have it all in aluminum and place an acrylic diffuser under the case.
like this, I think it's the optimal solution for the lighting look.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/fN8oVNU.png)


Bruh. Alu is literally the opposite of what OP is trying to go for here. He is using plastic materials as a means of having a product that sounds different (metal cases can sound harsh) and is more portable and durable.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: DeadlyPoison on Wed, 08 May 2019, 06:23:39
I know, but since other users mentioned the top alu, I only expressed my opinion on what I'd like to see in this GB.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: blizzara01 on Wed, 08 May 2019, 08:14:38
I know, but since other users mentioned the top alu, I only expressed my opinion on what I'd like to see in this GB.
TGR Alice is already an aliminum. I think its best to stay out of alu for top/bot piece.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 08 May 2019, 08:28:07
Will this be a limited unit run? Or will everyone who wants one have the ability to get one with an MOQ? I only ask I'm going to be in meetings all day, and I don't want to miss the GB that is allegedly today
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: dexie on Wed, 08 May 2019, 08:45:09
Will this be a limited unit run? Or will everyone who wants one have the ability to get one with an MOQ? I only ask I'm going to be in meetings all day, and I don't want to miss the GB that is allegedly today

I am in the same boat as you. So many limited runs lately.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 09 May 2019, 00:53:39
Ok so it痴 not happening tonight.
I知 still waiting on a couple things from some people, but we池e almost there.
As far as availability, I would love for it to be MOQ based and everyone who wants one gets one. And for me, that would equal more money right?
But quality is paramount.
This is my first GB. Polycarb is difficult. QC is so important.
If I do too many, this GB will run very long. And that leaves it open to more complications.
So for the sake of meeting deadlines or being ahead of them, and for the sake of putting out a really good board that people will enjoy, I値l be limiting the numbers.
If demand really is that high, I値l just immediately do a second round.
So stay tuned for an update.
The new name is 迭ukia btw. It means 途ay of light.
Which is probably better than the original name of 哲ightlight.
And it was also the name of my cat who died. She travelled with us from Japan and helped raise my two kids. She was basically a tiny squirrel dog.
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: yicaoyimu on Thu, 09 May 2019, 01:03:09
And it was also the name of my cat who died. She travelled with us from Japan and helped raise my two kids. She was basically a tiny squirrel dog.

Sorry about your loss. My cat is like a squirrel dog too and I really enjoyed her accompany. And thanks for sharing your reasoning behind making the GB a limited run. I'm sure your GB slots will be filled in minutes. Hope I can make it in.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: raphaelf on Thu, 09 May 2019, 01:05:13
Ok so it痴 not happening tonight.
I知 still waiting on a couple things from some people, but we池e almost there.
As far as availability, I would love for it to be MOQ based and everyone who wants one gets one. And for me, that would equal more money right?
But quality is paramount.
This is my first GB. Polycarb is difficult. QC is so important.
If I do too many, this GB will run very long. And that leaves it open to more complications.
So for the sake of meeting deadlines or being ahead of them, and for the sake of putting out a really good board that people will enjoy, I値l be limiting the numbers.
If demand really is that high, I値l just immediately do a second round.
So stay tuned for an update.
The new name is 迭ukia btw. It means 途ay of light.
Which is probably better than the original name of 哲ightlight.
And it was also the name of my cat who died. She travelled with us from Japan and helped raise my two kids. She was basically a tiny squirrel dog.
Thanks for the info. Super excited for this. But please pretty please remember of us in Europe and the 9h difference from the west coast when launching it. I really don't wanna miss this for being asleep =P

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: jaang on Thu, 09 May 2019, 01:07:15
So for the sake of meeting deadlines or being ahead of them, and for the sake of putting out a really good board that people will enjoy, I値l be limiting the numbers.
If demand really is that high, I値l just immediately do a second round.
So stay tuned for an update.

Will updates on the GB be in this thread or will there be a new thread specifically for "Rukia"?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: SJHL on Thu, 09 May 2019, 08:28:16
Interested in joining this GB when it launches but I have a question.

If you're the type of person who opens the case alot, wouldn't the thread be stripped sooner or later? Other than trying not to open it as much or even maybe gluing a metal insert, is there any other solution out there? Never had a polycarbonate case before so I figure that I ask.

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: KingOfMemes on Thu, 09 May 2019, 08:35:50
Interested in joining this GB when it launches but I have a question.

If you're the type of person who opens the case alot, wouldn't the thread be stripped sooner or later? Other than trying not to open it as much or even maybe gluing a metal insert, is there any other solution out there? Never had a polycarbonate case before so I figure that I ask.

You could probably use plastic screws to avoid stripping the threading on the PC case
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: SJHL on Thu, 09 May 2019, 09:16:50
Interested in joining this GB when it launches but I have a question.

If you're the type of person who opens the case alot, wouldn't the thread be stripped sooner or later? Other than trying not to open it as much or even maybe gluing a metal insert, is there any other solution out there? Never had a polycarbonate case before so I figure that I ask.

You could probably use plastic screws to avoid stripping the threading on the PC case

Yeah, was thinking about this also but the verdict would be the same (I think). I guess this option would be the best choice, though. Along with not opening it as much. Thanks!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: KingOfMemes on Thu, 09 May 2019, 09:22:20
Interested in joining this GB when it launches but I have a question.

If you're the type of person who opens the case alot, wouldn't the thread be stripped sooner or later? Other than trying not to open it as much or even maybe gluing a metal insert, is there any other solution out there? Never had a polycarbonate case before so I figure that I ask.

You could probably use plastic screws to avoid stripping the threading on the PC case

Yeah, was thinking about this also but the verdict would be the same (I think). I guess this option would be the best choice, though. Along with not opening it as much. Thanks!
Sure. I guess my point is that if you are using plastic/nylon screws, the heavy wear would go more onto the cheap, replaceable screws rather than the nice case
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: SJHL on Thu, 09 May 2019, 09:30:10
Interested in joining this GB when it launches but I have a question.

If you're the type of person who opens the case alot, wouldn't the thread be stripped sooner or later? Other than trying not to open it as much or even maybe gluing a metal insert, is there any other solution out there? Never had a polycarbonate case before so I figure that I ask.

You could probably use plastic screws to avoid stripping the threading on the PC case

Yeah, was thinking about this also but the verdict would be the same (I think). I guess this option would be the best choice, though. Along with not opening it as much. Thanks!
Sure. I guess my point is that if you are using plastic/nylon screws, the heavy wear would go more onto the cheap, replaceable screws rather than the nice case

Ah, I understand. I was thinking it'll still do dmg to the thread and not the screw itself. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: superdoedoe on Thu, 09 May 2019, 20:28:15
Polycarb threading does have the tendency of stripping and/or cracking.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Bahm78 on Thu, 09 May 2019, 21:15:24
Very interesting
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Thu, 09 May 2019, 22:04:49
Would love to see plastic screws included. Or something like in the picture I am linking (idk how possible this is, but it seems like it shouldn't be too hard).
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: TuCZnak on Fri, 10 May 2019, 00:17:06
Why not do metal inserts for the threading? That seems like the most sensible choice
Title: Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 10 May 2019, 02:01:41
... The new name is 迭ukia btw. It means 途ay of light.
...

迭ukia reminds me of Bleach痴 Rukia
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 10 May 2019, 04:36:52
Threaded inserts in plastic are not always consistent. Plastic screws are cheap.
But I will go with the best, most durable option. Screws will be included, of course. If it's plastic screws, extra sets will be included.

My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.

The GB is not posting this weekend. I'm waiting on a few things still to be delivered.
I apologize.
I got ahead of myself and over-excited.
I'll make sure there is plenty of warning for people to know when the GB actually drops, taking international timezones into consideration. 

There is no Discord channel or server for Rukia, but I'm jaxxstatic#2116 on there. Hit me up if you have questions.


Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Petch on Fri, 10 May 2019, 04:38:10
Threaded inserts installed with heat might be the way to go
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Zambumon on Sun, 12 May 2019, 05:58:13
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.

Sounds like most cats.

Threaded inserts installed with heat might be the way to go

Agreed. Many people often aren't careful enough when screwing and with a plastic case you'd definitely want to prevent stripping those threads.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sun, 12 May 2019, 10:32:20
That is what has been in my head since the beginning: threaded brass inserts applied into slightly too large cutouts like in Matt3o's vid/build log.
Seems cheap and effective
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: lolafineday on Sun, 12 May 2019, 10:42:22
That is what has been in my head since the beginning: threaded brass inserts applied into slightly too large cutouts like in Matt3o's vid/build log.
Seems cheap and effective
Link?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 12 May 2019, 11:29:16
...
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.
...

You must be Urahara and she's probably Yoruichi...
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: shuangmu on Sun, 12 May 2019, 19:34:05
Very cool, interesting <3
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 13 May 2019, 01:28:07
...
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.
...

You must be Urahara and she's probably Yoruichi...
Yoruichi, oh my.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Mon, 13 May 2019, 02:13:34
...
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.
...

You must be Urahara and she's probably Yoruichi...
Yoruichi, oh my.
Uhh..I won't show you the hat my wife bought me. Or the way she would tie her hair up while we watched the show...
If I make an Orihime board it will come with free charm keycaps, and built-in wrist rests
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 13 May 2019, 02:15:43
...
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.
...

You must be Urahara and she's probably Yoruichi...
Yoruichi, oh my.
Uhh..I won't show you the hat my wife bought me. Or the way she would tie her hair up while we watched the show...
If I make an Orihime board it will come with free charm keycaps, and built-in wrist rests
I'm dead
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Sinapanis on Mon, 13 May 2019, 21:06:42
...
My wife and I named our current cat Ichigo. It means strawberry in Japanese. He is an idiot but still a kitten.
...

You must be Urahara and she's probably Yoruichi...
Yoruichi, oh my.
Uhh..I won't show you the hat my wife bought me. Or the way she would tie her hair up while we watched the show...
If I make an Orihime board it will come with free charm keycaps, and built-in wrist rests
Getting to know all the heartwarming backstory in the naming process has made me so much more invested and interested in this project and your potential future ones. Can't wait for this group buy!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: The_Royal on Mon, 13 May 2019, 21:24:02
So I致e joined a few Separate Alice/Alice Clones GB lately for just the PCBs.

Will there be an option for just the Case+Plate in the Gb?

If so, will that knock a few Hamilton痴 off the Price? Or is the current price estimate for just the Case already?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 03:11:17
So I’ve joined a few Separate Alice/Alice Clones GB lately for just the PCBs.

Will there be an option for just the Case+Plate in the Gb?

If so, will that knock a few Hamilton’s off the Price? Or is the current price estimate for just the Case already?

So the original thing in my head was that this would be a la carte, like if you already had a pcb or plate or case, the new stuff is compatible, so people could pick what they want, and I would just invoice for that. Like a store.

But I can't really offer that, as the case design is really all I did. This GB will just be for a kit. Sorry.
However, it's all compatible. OG Alice plates and PCBs will work. 159's PCBs and plates will work. Maarten's PCB will work.
So along with that, I won't be offering extras. The kit options are just between carbon fiber or polycarbonate plates.
If you need extras, other cloned parts will likely work out.

What I need to know now, honestly, is if people are interested in a case made of stacked carbon fiber layers.
I've got a stack of carbon fiber plates here, and it is.....oof. I want it. I'll make it happen, but if others want it too, I'll run a concurrent buy. Turnaround will likely be even quicker.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: lakeboredom on Tue, 14 May 2019, 04:02:50
I'd definitely buy the carbon fiber version. Would it look like one piece?
Title: [IC] Rukia
Post by: lolafineday on Tue, 14 May 2019, 04:25:35
Could you elaborate how different carbon fiber and polycarb plate would be? Sound properties, Which one is more bendable? Etc... is it possible for just a UHMW plate?

Edit: is there a possibility for a half plate?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: demonahz on Tue, 14 May 2019, 05:04:13
What I need to know now, honestly, is if people are interested in a case made of stacked carbon fiber layers.

REALLY interested here!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: ejewell89 on Tue, 14 May 2019, 06:33:54
you guys are all over analyzing the screws and PC stripping. I have taken my Poly 910 apart dozens of times and have no issues yet.

I'm no invalid, either. Most who know me are aware I go to the gym regularly.

There is no need to over engineer this project, just dont be an idiot and overtighten screws
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 10:18:07
Could you elaborate how different carbon fiber and polycarb plate would be? Sound properties, Which one is more bendable? Etc... is it possible for just a UHMW plate?

Edit: is there a possibility for a half plate?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just my subjective opinion based off trying them:
Carbon fiber for tactiles. It痴 firm almost like aluminum but sounds better imo.
Polycarbonate for linears. Soft and mmm nice.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 10:21:08
you guys are all over analyzing the screws and PC stripping. I have taken my Poly 910 apart dozens of times and have no issues yet.
I'm no invalid, either. Most who know me are aware I go to the gym regularly.
There is no need to over engineer this project, just dont be an idiot and overtighten screws
That is helpful! I値l take it into consideration. Especially since inserts wouldn稚 look great.
And I have seen videos of this guy deadlift, so I値l trust his screw turning power
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Create_alt_delete on Tue, 14 May 2019, 11:16:49
The kit options are just between carbon fiber or polycarbonate plates.

So it seems brass plate from the original UHMW design is out. What about the brass weight?

Really hoping that's staying.


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 12:11:44
The kit options are just between carbon fiber or polycarbonate plates.
So it seems brass plate from the original UHMW design is out. What about the brass weight?
Really hoping that's staying.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Brass on small boards is really meh to me. Sound and feel-wise. On a TKL or larger, brass really shines with cut outs from what I've tried on my Aegis build and heard on other people's Jane v2 builds. 

I didn't see enough interest in brass compared to other plate materials, but the files are open source. If people want to put together a brass plate GB, it's relatively cheap to get them made. Even PVD finished.

Sorry it's not included in this GB.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Create_alt_delete on Tue, 14 May 2019, 12:45:50
The kit options are just between carbon fiber or polycarbonate plates.
So it seems brass plate from the original UHMW design is out. What about the brass weight?
Really hoping that's staying.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Brass on small boards is really meh to me. Sound and feel-wise. On a TKL or larger, brass really shines with cut outs from what I've tried on my Aegis build and heard on other people's Jane v2 builds. 

I didn't see enough interest in brass compared to other plate materials, but the files are open source. If people want to put together a brass plate GB, it's relatively cheap to get them made. Even PVD finished.

Sorry it's not included in this GB.

Specifically wondering about brass weight here, not plate. Sorry for the confusion.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: megaforce93 on Tue, 14 May 2019, 13:00:57
rukia daisuki
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 15:17:51
Brass weight is there, same as in the renders. External. PVD coated. No engraving.
I toyed with different fonts and drawings for engravings. But I honestly prefer it clean. And it's cheaper this way as well.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: KingOfMemes on Tue, 14 May 2019, 15:29:06
Brass weight is there, same as in the renders. External. PVD coated. No engraving.
I toyed with different fonts and drawings for engravings. But I honestly prefer it clean. And it's cheaper this way as well.
Amen, brother. Bless up
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: lolafineday on Tue, 14 May 2019, 15:29:42
Projected weight?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Acereconkeys on Tue, 14 May 2019, 15:32:36
Brass weight is there, same as in the renders. External. PVD coated. No engraving.
I toyed with different fonts and drawings for engravings. But I honestly prefer it clean. And it's cheaper this way as well.
Good choice imo.

This boards awesome really hope we can see UMHW more often in the future.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: ian13 on Tue, 14 May 2019, 20:29:44
Will it bring the cost a bit lower if the brass weight will be raw instead of pvd coated? How about sandblasted with clear coat? I'm just wondering, I don't know anything about this, really.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Tue, 14 May 2019, 21:53:48
Will it bring the cost a bit lower if the brass weight will be raw instead of pvd coated? How about sandblasted with clear coat? I'm just wondering, I don't know anything about this, really.
Negligibly.

Please say that out loud.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: bthezebra on Tue, 14 May 2019, 22:02:25
Will it bring the cost a bit lower if the brass weight will be raw instead of pvd coated? How about sandblasted with clear coat? I'm just wondering, I don't know anything about this, really.
Negligibly.

Please say that out loud.
I feel silly...
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Sinapanis on Tue, 14 May 2019, 22:05:59
Any eta on when the drop might happen? Also, any chance you might reconsider including brass plates? Seeing brass through PC is really satisfying.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: victorpre on Wed, 15 May 2019, 02:08:21
Any eta on when the drop might happen? Also, any chance you might reconsider including brass plates? Seeing brass through PC is really satisfying.
Brass!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: ian13 on Wed, 15 May 2019, 07:06:04
Will it bring the cost a bit lower if the brass weight will be raw instead of pvd coated? How about sandblasted with clear coat? I'm just wondering, I don't know anything about this, really.
Negligibly.

Please say that out loud.

I don't know what this means. I actually really asked because I don't know anything about the cost of finishing brass or anything about metals.
I apologize if my question seemed sarcastic or anything.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: raphaelf on Wed, 15 May 2019, 07:25:13
Will it bring the cost a bit lower if the brass weight will be raw instead of pvd coated? How about sandblasted with clear coat? I'm just wondering, I don't know anything about this, really.
Negligibly.

Please say that out loud.

I don't know what this means. I actually really asked because I don't know anything about the cost of finishing brass or anything about metals.
I apologize if my question seemed sarcastic or anything.

I think he just meant that "negligibly" (a.k.a. won't change that much) is a funny word.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: teamrushpntball on Wed, 15 May 2019, 10:01:40
Is this still stepped caps lock only?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 15 May 2019, 10:37:22
[attach=1]
stepped and non stepped caps supported.
I apologize for being curt about the brass question.
Costs are only brought down a little bit by going with another brass option besides PVD finish.
And honestly, they池e your keyboards but crappy looking brass will reflect poorly on me long after this GB is ended. I think PVD is the best way to go for corrosion and scratches.
Sorry for the dad joke
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Exfinite on Wed, 15 May 2019, 11:39:32
Any eta on when the drop might happen? Also, any chance you might reconsider including brass plates? Seeing brass through PC is really satisfying.

Agreed! Love the PC + brass plate combo aesthetics
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: glubazoid on Wed, 15 May 2019, 15:36:23
Excited for this, will there be a notification in this thread with a group buy date/ time so we don稚 miss out?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:19:18
Excited for this, will there be a notification in this thread with a group buy date/ time so we don稚 miss out?
I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: jaang on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:22:17
I’m debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I’ve been getting friend requests and pm’s from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I’m aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn’t even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I’m considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

Dang, sucks to see how negatively flippers can affect everything. Hope you figure out what works best for you and also hoping I can get my hands on one!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: MagicSauce on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:22:31
Excited for this, will there be a notification in this thread with a group buy date/ time so we don稚 miss out?
I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.
Been following this thread but didn稚 even realize how much of a pain in the ass that part of this whole process must be...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: raphaelf on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:33:28
Excited for this, will there be a notification in this thread with a group buy date/ time so we don稚 miss out?
I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

That sucks. Guess the whole Alice hype has its bad side after all.
Best of luck with whatever you choose. And good luck for me, to hopefully be able to get one.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Choobies on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:39:49
Excited for this, will there be a notification in this thread with a group buy date/ time so we don稚 miss out?
I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

You could run it FCFS for X units, but only accept the first X people who meet the criteria of being legitimate members of the Reddit/GH mk community?  Users don't have to be like mega-active or whatever, but at least not new accounts, etc.  You hold the rights to sell to whoever you want (and don't want).
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: sawjai on Wed, 15 May 2019, 16:43:13
Registered just to respond to this....

Didn't realize how much of an issue flippers are for this hobby. I'm relatively new to it, only been partaking a bit on Reddit but recently started to come here more after joining on a keycap gb. Have been following this IC from the sidelines because I'm really interested in it. Hopefully everything goes well without flippers being an issue...

I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

Dang, sucks to see how negatively flippers can affect everything. Hope you figure out what works best for you and also hoping I can get my hands on one!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: teamrushpntball on Wed, 15 May 2019, 20:31:23
Registered just to respond to this....

Didn't realize how much of an issue flippers are for this hobby. I'm relatively new to it, only been partaking a bit on Reddit but recently started to come here more after joining on a keycap gb. Have been following this IC from the sidelines because I'm really interested in it. Hopefully everything goes well without flippers being an issue...

I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

Dang, sucks to see how negatively flippers can affect everything. Hope you figure out what works best for you and also hoping I can get my hands on one!

You can already see it happening with the Leaf60's as they are being delivered.  Hitting the second hand market at markups.  I understand some markup for having been able to wait out the group buy but it's something else when you have 3 of the same unbuilt kit ready to sell.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: darrenph1 on Wed, 15 May 2019, 21:08:37
You can already see it happening with the Leaf60's as they are being delivered.  Hitting the second hand market at markups.  I understand some markup for having been able to wait out the group buy but it's something else when you have 3 of the same unbuilt kit ready to sell.

That sucks. For that reason alone it should be limited to 1 per buyer. I've never done a GB before but I'm guessing the FCFS list goes quick. Fingers crossed I get in! Please don't let all the bull**** get you down.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Aevyn on Wed, 15 May 2019, 21:11:51
Registered just to respond to this....

Didn't realize how much of an issue flippers are for this hobby. I'm relatively new to it, only been partaking a bit on Reddit but recently started to come here more after joining on a keycap gb. Have been following this IC from the sidelines because I'm really interested in it. Hopefully everything goes well without flippers being an issue...

I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

Dang, sucks to see how negatively flippers can affect everything. Hope you figure out what works best for you and also hoping I can get my hands on one!

You can already see it happening with the Leaf60's as they are being delivered.  Hitting the second hand market at markups.  I understand some markup for having been able to wait out the group buy but it's something else when you have 3 of the same unbuilt kit ready to sell.
Argh, I don't understand why this is even happening. Leaf60 didn't even have unit max. There should be plenty to go around. I'm sure a 100+ were made. Just wait a bit and flippers won't get anything.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: superdoedoe on Wed, 15 May 2019, 21:42:02
Not the best pics to show off the brass but it goes great with Poly IMO.

(https://i.imgur.com/jbUMj1l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G3XRCUt.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Wed, 15 May 2019, 21:55:22
Bummer that GB runners have to even think about ways to distribute to mitigate flippers effect. Hoping most that want one will be able to get one.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: p_blaze on Wed, 15 May 2019, 22:29:28
So I致e joined a few Separate Alice/Alice Clones GB lately for just the PCBs.

Will there be an option for just the Case+Plate in the Gb?

If so, will that knock a few Hamilton痴 off the Price? Or is the current price estimate for just the Case already?

So the original thing in my head was that this would be a la carte, like if you already had a pcb or plate or case, the new stuff is compatible, so people could pick what they want, and I would just invoice for that. Like a store.

But I can't really offer that, as the case design is really all I did. This GB will just be for a kit. Sorry.
However, it's all compatible. OG Alice plates and PCBs will work. 159's PCBs and plates will work. Maarten's PCB will work.
So along with that, I won't be offering extras. The kit options are just between carbon fiber or polycarbonate plates.
If you need extras, other cloned parts will likely work out.

What I need to know now, honestly, is if people are interested in a case made of stacked carbon fiber layers.
I've got a stack of carbon fiber plates here, and it is.....oof. I want it. I'll make it happen, but if others want it too, I'll run a concurrent buy. Turnaround will likely be even quicker.

What price range are we looking at?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Auxo on Thu, 16 May 2019, 01:57:06
Registered just to respond to this....

Didn't realize how much of an issue flippers are for this hobby. I'm relatively new to it, only been partaking a bit on Reddit but recently started to come here more after joining on a keycap gb. Have been following this IC from the sidelines because I'm really interested in it. Hopefully everything goes well without flippers being an issue...

I知 debating how to do this.
Originally it would be FCFS. But I致e been getting friend requests and pm痴 from brand new GH and discord accounts with no history. And people asking to buy multiple for family and friends.
I知 aware of the likeliness of this whole thing just going to flippers. If I was doing a large run, then honestly I wouldn稚 even care. Some people read my rant before I edited. I meant what I said.
So I知 considering doing half private and half FCFS.
I will notify in this thread before posting the GB.

Dang, sucks to see how negatively flippers can affect everything. Hope you figure out what works best for you and also hoping I can get my hands on one!

You can already see it happening with the Leaf60's as they are being delivered.  Hitting the second hand market at markups.  I understand some markup for having been able to wait out the group buy but it's something else when you have 3 of the same unbuilt kit ready to sell.
Argh, I don't understand why this is even happening. Leaf60 didn't even have unit max. There should be plenty to go around. I'm sure a 100+ were made. Just wait a bit and flippers won't get anything.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It's not so much as how many units are made to be honest, its just the fact that the hobby is continuously growing and that there will always be people missing out on group buys and hoping to pick up leftovers. GMK Serika & Red Samurai are absolutely absurd and those weren't limited either. TGR Jane V2 hit $3000 before all the units even shipped. This caused a lot of curious newbies to join the recent V2 CE in hopes of getting a "$3000 board" at retail (hopefully not to flip), the day of the group buy was absolutely nuts with 400+ people staring at the group buy page before it started lol
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: blizzara01 on Thu, 16 May 2019, 02:30:03
Fcfs or raffle will be a nice choice to run this gb.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 16 May 2019, 02:41:20
Brass on small boards is really meh to me. Sound and feel-wise. On a TKL or larger, brass really shines with cut outs from what I've tried on my Aegis build and heard on other people's Jane v2 builds. 

I didn't see enough interest in brass compared to other plate materials, but the files are open source. If people want to put together a brass plate GB, it's relatively cheap to get them made. Even PVD finished.

Sorry it's not included in this GB.

So I understand and agree that brass is mucho sexy looking through polycarb. I really do.
But there wasn't enough interest in the answers from people who filled out the form. 

What I'll do is create another form when the GB launches specifically for the brass plate. If enough people fill it out, we'll make them.

Also, overnight shipping is not overnight in to some shipping companies, apparently. So expect the GB to drop on Friday at the EARLIEST.
I will still give notification ahead of time in this thread.

Expect a $390 price tag with plate and PCB. Full kit is the only option. Carbon fiber or polycarbonate plate.
I am doing it half private, half open to FCFS. 

And yes, i totally understand it makes me a douche to quote myself in a forum.

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: jaang on Thu, 16 May 2019, 02:48:39

Also, overnight shipping is not overnight in to some shipping companies, apparently. So expect the GB to drop on Friday at the EARLIEST.
I will still give notification ahead of time in this thread.

Expect a $390 price tag with plate and PCB. Full kit is the only option. Carbon fiber or polycarbonate plate.
I am doing it half private, half open to FCFS. 


Oof can't wait, hope I can get in, but regardless looking forward to it!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Petch on Thu, 16 May 2019, 03:33:53
How will the private GB work?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: superdoedoe on Thu, 16 May 2019, 04:04:56
How will the private GB work?

I Assume he will reach out to you and ask if you want one.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 16 May 2019, 04:15:36
or reach out to me. I'm on discord. but i'll get to more pm's in tomorrow. time to pass out for a little bit
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 16 May 2019, 04:41:49
Phew. I'm glad we're best mates and I'll get the PM inviting me to join the private group buy. Right?!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 16 May 2019, 06:57:26
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Furikurichemy on Thu, 16 May 2019, 07:54:16
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.

Need Ichika and Kazui boards too.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: SJHL on Thu, 16 May 2019, 10:35:58
or reach out to me. I'm on discord. but i'll get to more pm's in tomorrow. time to pass out for a little bit

Lets be friends.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: sawjai on Thu, 16 May 2019, 12:26:27
It's not so much as how many units are made to be honest, its just the fact that the hobby is continuously growing and that there will always be people missing out on group buys and hoping to pick up leftovers. GMK Serika & Red Samurai are absolutely absurd and those weren't limited either. TGR Jane V2 hit $3000 before all the units even shipped. This caused a lot of curious newbies to join the recent V2 CE in hopes of getting a "$3000 board" at retail (hopefully not to flip), the day of the group buy was absolutely nuts with 400+ people staring at the group buy page before it started lol

I'm ok with popular boards getting more expensive due to it's rarity and collectibility regardless of how rare or collectible it actually is. Half the fun is getting in early and seeing where it goes. What drives me nuts are the flippers who had no interest in the board, or maybe even in the hobby, that buys up whatever they can looking for some easy $$$. They artificially inflate all the prices and ruin it for everyone else in the hobby. Like I said though, I'm still new here so I don't know how much of an extent this problem is here. I just see this in other hobbies I partake in and it's quite annoying...
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: jhmoon999 on Thu, 16 May 2019, 19:26:53
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.

The Rukia Alice is made of semi-transparent polycarbonate like ice.

The UHMW Alice actually looks like Hollow mask material.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 16 May 2019, 19:58:16
The Rukia Alice is made of semi-transparent polycarbonate like ice.

The UHMW Alice actually looks like Hollow mask material.

Should the UHMW one be called...Ulquiorra?
Title: Ulqo-what.
Post by: Villa on Thu, 16 May 2019, 20:01:45
...forgot the name already, B.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Furikurichemy on Thu, 16 May 2019, 20:14:46
The Rukia Alice is made of semi-transparent polycarbonate like ice.

The UHMW Alice actually looks like Hollow mask material.

Should the UHMW one be called...Ulquiorra?

nah, Grimmjow or ... Aizen
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 04:59:50
Kidding aside, I won't be naming future boards weird Latin-inspired Japanese interpretations of names.
On another note, I just got home from work at the hospital to a couple packages...
3d printed prototype is in. PCB in USB-mini and USB-C versions are in. The USB-mini one is from the projectkeyboard.com GB, and the USB-C is for Rukia, and....

**FIT IS GOOD!!!**

Also, I have the plates in from projectkeyboard, and they fit great.

Everything is very tight in terms of my measurements for fit, but even with 3d printing tolerances, it is all a really nice and pleasant build experience. The plate is as tight as I've seen people struggle with on build streams. It's as tight as my EM7 plate was. Soldering was a BREEZE, though, afterward.
The typing angle feels really good to me.
The PCB works great with QMK. I built my .hex file a while ago, based off what I wish my EM7 could do, especially with tap dancing, and this layout with those features is PERFECT to me. Especially for gaming (well, WoW at least), typing, and Fusion360.

No pictures or video yet because I have to clean up the flash, and it's 3d printed so it's not indicative of how polycarb will feel, look, and sound.
But what I really wanted to make sure of was the USB port fit with both types, the adjusted angle, the fit with screw-in/clip in stabs, and the screw depth/placement.

It's all good. I'm..just....man. This is huge for me. The first board I put work into that is going to be made into a reality. It's not my original base design, I know. But I've put a lot of effort and work into this--all done at night after my family sleeps.
And this gives me so much more confidence for Irma.

Here's the thing, though: should I start the GB based off a 3D printed prototype without a polycarb version?
My opinion is yes. Absolutely yes. I'll be diligent to make sure that the polycarb fab is on point. I'll order a polycarb sample very soon.
But based off what I have in hand, I'm confident in my files. I'm confident in the manufacturer and my collaborators. I really think this is going to be special.

I don't think I'll drop the GB today (Friday 5/17/19).
But I will give 24 hours notice in this thread before posting the GB thread.
I'll also temporarily change the title of this thread to include the date and time of the GB form going live.
25 slots open to FCFS.
I'm still going through messages for the private GB. I think people would be scared if they saw my Discord throughout today. I've answered everyone on Discord, but not everyone who will be included has been notified or invoiced. It might come to you in the morning after I sleep a couple hours.
I still have to respond to some people who messaged through Geekhack and Reddit. Please be patient with me.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 05:01:52
Brass plate will happen. Just not in the main GB options.
I love the way brass sounds and feels with cutouts. But with the plate's odd shape, I want to make sure I place them correctly. There's not a lot of real estate.
For those who get in and want brass. It's gonna happen.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: evanmcferran on Fri, 17 May 2019, 05:03:58
Amazing work! Can稚 wait for the gb! Thank you for being able to make this a reality
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: victorpre on Fri, 17 May 2019, 05:05:43
Amazing news Jaxx!!
Great work so far! I'm in for opening the GB just with the 3d printed version!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: LightningXI on Fri, 17 May 2019, 05:40:48
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.
And then you get a whole filler season.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: lolafineday on Fri, 17 May 2019, 06:47:30
I'm scared

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 07:43:18
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.
And then you get a whole filler season.

Hahahaha! or FIVE
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Furikurichemy on Fri, 17 May 2019, 09:19:31
Rukia.
And then next Keeb is Ichigo.

Then there'll be a Hollow series with certain featues in its build or materials.
And then you get a whole filler season.

Hahahaha! or FIVE

When you come into the series late enough that you can skip them all  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: g_mr_p on Fri, 17 May 2019, 09:32:49
Sounds like the GB is just around the corner, can't wait to see the prototype unit in action.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Zurg Eon on Fri, 17 May 2019, 17:14:47
Man, it's such a cool layout. Every other ergo layout I've seen don't really cut it for me. I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for future rounds if I don't get in on this one.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: krazysamurai on Fri, 17 May 2019, 21:26:20
Man, sucks to be a new user to the forum if we're getting excluded. I mean, I get it. Flippers ruin everything. You gotta do what you feel is right & fair for the community.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 21:53:31
Man, sucks to be a new user to the forum if we're getting excluded. I mean, I get it. Flippers ruin everything. You gotta do what you feel is right & fair for the community.
New accounts are not excluded.
English is not the barometer for legit-niss.
Like I said, shady people are sometimes very bad about hiding their shadiness.
Asking for 10 slots for people in one’s home country will get you excluded. Can those 10 people not use a keyboard to contact me? Why then are they buying this expensive a$$ keyboard?
Seriously. Google translate. Or not. A message to me in odd syntax is fine. A message to me in mandarin, Russian, korean, Portuguese, whatever is totally okay. I will answer you back in a horrible attempt at your language.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 21:56:43
For those who messaged me on GH and not discord, please be patient with me. I知 at work but I値l get to your message. I apologize for the wait.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: freespam on Fri, 17 May 2019, 22:37:35
Here's the thing, though: should I start the GB based off a 3D printed prototype without a polycarb version?
My opinion is yes. Absolutely yes. I'll be diligent to make sure that the polycarb fab is on point. I'll order a polycarb sample very soon.
But based off what I have in hand, I'm confident in my files. I'm confident in the manufacturer and my collaborators. I really think this is going to be special.

I have no experience in this stuff, but fwiw, I'd feel more comfortable with a prototype based on seeing other buys where the runner got one and wasn't satisfied with it for whatever reason.  OTOH, there's a side of me that just wants this to be made ASAP assuming I can get in on the buy!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Fri, 17 May 2019, 23:08:39
To clarify:
I知 not talking about people combining orders to try to save on shipping. That just makes sense and of course I値l let people proxy. Also shipping will be done via the preferred means of the buyers. They池e paying for the shipping anyways.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: superdoedoe on Mon, 20 May 2019, 17:54:47
Purple poly is dope(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/c4f171efbf491cf80fe0650b89751c15.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/5401e6996b9bc962f14500615a20dbdd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/84a3d36be99700c97a22dcf19278132f.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: iaman on Mon, 20 May 2019, 18:31:31
Purple poly is dope
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/c4f171efbf491cf80fe0650b89751c15.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/5401e6996b9bc962f14500615a20dbdd.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/84a3d36be99700c97a22dcf19278132f.jpg)


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
Extremely good 💜
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: elpepe21 on Tue, 21 May 2019, 00:14:26
Purple poly is dope
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/c4f171efbf491cf80fe0650b89751c15.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/5401e6996b9bc962f14500615a20dbdd.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/84a3d36be99700c97a22dcf19278132f.jpg)


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk



when and where?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: superdoedoe on Tue, 21 May 2019, 00:16:02
Purple poly is dope
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/c4f171efbf491cf80fe0650b89751c15.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/5401e6996b9bc962f14500615a20dbdd.jpg)
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190520/84a3d36be99700c97a22dcf19278132f.jpg)


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk



when and where?

head over to group buys.

It's name is MXSS
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:29:37
Pending
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847)
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: jaang on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:31:15
Pending
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847)

It's coming!!!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: evanmcferran on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:31:58
!!!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: victorpre on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:36:48
Pending
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847)
Can't wait!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: vegs on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:37:55
 :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: demonahz on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:39:32
Pending
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100847)

It's coming!!!

excitement and anxiety levels exceeding any and all expectations!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Furikurichemy on Wed, 22 May 2019, 02:58:04
 :)
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: pnkpanther65 on Wed, 22 May 2019, 08:34:19
Set it off :D good luck
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: Lormania on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:10:38
Ooo hope I get one :)
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:33:26
This is going to be my hype board of 2019 \o/
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: Furikurichemy on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:51:40
Is the buy going to start when the page goes up (like e65), or will it just announce a later date?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:56:41
Is the buy going to start when the page goes up (like e65), or will it just announce a later date?
9PM PST on Thursday the 23rd
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: Furikurichemy on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:58:32
Is the buy going to start when the page goes up (like e65), or will it just announce a later date?
9PM PST on Thursday the 23rd

Awesome thanks!
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: raphaelf on Wed, 22 May 2019, 09:59:14
Is the buy going to start when the page goes up (like e65), or will it just announce a later date?
9PM PST on Thursday the 23rd

I'm confused. Isn't PDT active now?
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: neojonathan on Wed, 22 May 2019, 10:03:07
Is the buy going to start when the page goes up (like e65), or will it just announce a later date?
9PM PST on Thursday the 23rd

I'm confused. Isn't PDT active now?

Today is wednesday..
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: radam on Wed, 22 May 2019, 10:08:13
He means PST vs PDT.
Down with DST.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: flippanteer on Wed, 22 May 2019, 11:08:50
I can understand going ahead with the GB with just the 3D print proto, but can we have any images of the proto? I want confirmation of design.
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 22 May 2019, 13:33:36
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: pnkpanther65 on Wed, 22 May 2019, 13:35:36
YES(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190522/1d5a92ad010635bfb1e7d85861e22641.gif)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 22 May 2019, 13:37:56
Oh. GB link is active. Same pics in there
Title: Re: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)
Post by: flippanteer on Wed, 22 May 2019, 14:00:45
Beautiful, thanks!