Poll

Preferred port

Mini USB
73 (16%)
USB C
383 (84%)

Total Members Voted: 456

Author Topic: [IC] Rukia (GB form opens Thursday 5/23/19 @9pm PST, confirm your local time)  (Read 41025 times)

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Offline spyruf

  • Posts: 109
  • Location: USA
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #150 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:01:46 »
1

Offline rossfromfriends

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #151 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:02:06 »
1

Offline XtReeM1337n355

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #152 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:04:55 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #153 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:13:14 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

p sure most people just want it now
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Offline TuCZnak

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #154 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:14:24 »
1

Then do Irma in UHMW with newly purchased equipment

Offline ArchDill

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #155 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:14:26 »
Whew.. I would be in for a PC

Offline Create_alt_delete

  • Posts: 82
  • Location: Georgia, USA
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #156 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:25:26 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
I was just thinking it would be nice if people gave their reason for picking 2. Makes me wonder if everyone read OP's post.

He says he'll use money from PC GB to purchase equipment to do UHMW himself later.

I too would prefer UHMW over PC. Considering the issues with the manufacturers and financing, I think option 1 is the best way to make sure the UHMW happens.

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« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:07:42 by Create_alt_delete »

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #157 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:33:23 »
KK. So here it as simple as possible--please reply with either a "1" or "2" from the following options:

1) Go with polycarbonate for now.

I found a manufacturer than can get close to Singa PC quality.
PCBs are locked down and ready to go.
Plates are quick and easy.
If we go this route, I start a PC Alice GB immediately and the projected price is much lower than UHMW.

*I'll use the funds from this GB to immediately purchase the necessary equipment to make a nitrogen infusion injection molding setup to manufacturer the UHMW cases myself or at least pay for the initial tooling and mold costs for a US-based factory to do it. Either way, I will be hands on with the production.

2) Wait it out.

This is what I've been doing so far. Hoping a manufacturer actually puts out a good product after I pay them for prototypes.
This option is likely only feasible for the next month or so, as I'm paying out of pocket for all this and holding on to the money of a couple early backers.
The current factory may actually produce something, but I haven't heard back in a couple weeks.
Three other offers have said their engineers can do it, but no one has shown proof with what I asked (13" x 5" x 6 degree CNC'd UHMW wedge).

Please reply 1 or 2

2

(doing 1 would be taking the easy path out; beat 2 to bits before switching to 1)

2 for as long as is financially sound for you. I will be waiting for the UHMW version regardless.
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Offline rossfromfriends

  • Posts: 10
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #158 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:55:29 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

went with 1 because i wanna support jaxx pursue uhmw and a pc run is a lily pad to help him get there. a little financial support from the community while still benefiting as a community sounds like a sound idea imo. and as puddsy said, im admittedly a little impatient.

Offline Vigrith

  • Posts: 1756
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #159 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:10:52 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.

p sure most people just want it now

Also money

Offline Esheu2

  • Posts: 80
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #160 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:50:04 »
1. Personally, I'm more interested in a PC version for cost reasons. I'm sure plenty of other people are of the same opinion. Since doing a PC run would act as a stepping stone for your original goal of a UHMW version, I personally see this as a win-win for everybody involved.
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Offline p_blaze

  • Posts: 449
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #161 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 16:51:11 »
1 if we are talking somewhere near Lubrigante prices

2 if you think that it is safer for your finances that way, because despite whether I want PC Alice or not, I can't in good faith ask for you to stick a limb out and take the risk of 2 GBs and production.

Offline victorpre

  • Posts: 97
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #162 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:02:22 »
1

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Offline nulltorious

  • Posts: 82
  • Location: Bangkok
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #163 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:05:56 »
1 - Lower risk as material is proven (obtaining & CNC). Also fastest path to having a product ready and opens up UHMW for experimentation in the future.

Offline vtachkov

  • Posts: 199
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #164 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:19:37 »
1

Offline RaySasQuach

  • Posts: 130
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #165 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:26:08 »
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
For me it's more like, I'm fine with waiting and as long as he uses the money from the PC version to make the UHMW version like he says he will, then I'd be willing to wait a little bit longer just get be sure I get a proper UHMW version. And I may not even get the PC version, but I think a lot of people will. If option 1 was PC and slim chance of a UHMW version happening, then I'd pick option 2, but afaik both versions will happen if option 1 is picked.


Offline lakeboredom

  • Posts: 251
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #166 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:38:36 »
2  Prefer the solid white material

Offline juaninamilli

  • Posts: 189
[IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #167 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:06:27 »
I own no PC boards and would prefer to see this amount of detail used on a proven material, over one that has yet to be proven. Especially since the manu doesnít seem overly confident about the project. Iíd rather have a run go through with a new designer, having the least amount of variables.
Can people give their reason for choosing 1? Imo, the benefits of UHMW completely outweighs the benefits of PC. I own a few polycarbonate boards and would like something different.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:10:53 by juaninamilli »

Offline juaninamilli

  • Posts: 189
[IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #168 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:07:21 »
(Deleted cause Iím dumb and double posted)
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:10:22 by juaninamilli »

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 199
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #169 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:10:13 »
1. cheaper, easier, better value for me personally

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #170 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:20:09 »
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.

Offline lolafineday

  • Posts: 309
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #171 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 18:24:59 »
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.
I love this ic because itís an Alice layout. I didnít support this because of the material really, although it was really interesting.

Offline fishinaspacesuit

  • Posts: 95
  • Location: Singapore
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #172 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:09:53 »
I vote 1 :)

I would love to get a PC Alice AND a plastic Alice.

Offline p_blaze

  • Posts: 449
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #173 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:11:44 »
So I'm at work but still taking suggestions (1 or 2).
But I want to jump in with a couple points.

*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

*Polycarbonate is NOT acrylic, so there's no way I'll be able to match Lubrigante pricing. But it'll be cheaper than what I projected for CNC'd UHMW.

*UHMW is pretty much synonymous with me in the community by this time, and I've invested too much to not make it work. I still believe that it offers what I want in a keyboard, more so than any other plastic. ABS, PBT, acrylic, polycarbonate, POM--there are options for keyboards in each of those materials. I think UHMW needs to exist as a case, in at least one form, for people to really be able to judge if it's worth it or not.

*I think injection molding is really the best future for ALL plastic boards. It's going to yield cheaper boards with less QC issues and failures, with all the benefits of high-end plastic, in better/more elegant designs.

*The plan for polycarb Alice is really to get out something that people want (polycarb Alice), but it's also to get out something that people didn't know they wanted (injection molded UHMW keyboard cases).
Talking with manufacturers, the high cost they're quoting me is because of machine time shared with other projects and risk of experimentation. Screw that. If it's me, I'll eat those costs because my business is ONLY keyboards.

I've got more to say, but I'll stop here so I don't get myself into more trouble.

I didn't realize that 2 will continue to cost you out of pocket

Definitely 1 in that scenario, I'm sure many will be willing to jump on a PC Alice

Offline Furikurichemy

  • Posts: 150
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #174 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:23:30 »
1
I'd grab both honestly and if 1 makes the uhmw more feasible down the road, it's the better option I think.

Offline Vov

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #175 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:28:11 »
1
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Offline slxdegrees

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #176 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 20:03:34 »
2

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Offline unluckyxiii

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #177 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 20:28:27 »
1 - less stress on yourself, a faster something for people who want it, youíve a plan already. 2 is basically wait it out and burning your own money.


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Offline onlinegamer0

  • Posts: 12
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #178 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 22:02:14 »
1

Mainly because cost and I'm impatient  ;D Definitely not opposed to 2 but leaning towards 1.

Offline briano1905

  • Posts: 105
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #179 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 23:55:58 »
1

I'm also down for aluminium plate & weight to reduce cost even more :rolleyes:

Offline ryou965

  • Posts: 32
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 10:48:23 »
1 but would love to choose carbon fiber if possible

Offline FunTyme

  • Formerly known as Edrylle
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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #181 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 10:58:13 »
1

Donít rush option 2 and keep planning and researching.
QXP | HBCP | T60 | IDB60 | TGR Jane v2 CE | bob

Offline bthezebra

  • Posts: 436
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #182 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:03:39 »
1

Offline lolafineday

  • Posts: 309
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #183 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:04:46 »
Wow I canít wait to have a polycarb Alice, hopefully this buy can go smoothly, and products arrive during summer


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Offline senryo

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #184 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:53:22 »
1

Offline g_mr_p

  • Posts: 26
  • Location: TX, USA
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #185 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 13:07:32 »
Was initially interested because of 2, fine with the other if it will help make that happen.

Offline jumpmineralwater

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 13:20:43 »
1

Offline snurrebassen

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #187 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:12:13 »
1 :)

Offline mrpokemone

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #188 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:35:14 »
1

Offline Villa

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Ambivalence.
« Reply #189 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 14:55:56 »
I concur with these statements.

I didn't realize that 2 will continue to cost you out of pocket

Was initially interested because of 2, fine with the other if it will help make that happen.

Offline vonswoopington

  • Posts: 187
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #190 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 15:37:03 »
1

No need to put yourself at financial risk. Lower cost and faster delivery is also a plus.
TGR 910 Polycarb | TGR Alice | TGR Unikorn | Lyn EM-7 | VE.A | Kyuu | E7-V1

Offline KingOfMemes

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #191 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 16:26:40 »
1

No need to put yourself at financial risk. Lower cost and faster delivery is also a plus.

Amen to this. I vote 1 as well

Offline jil_jil32

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #192 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 16:43:15 »
2.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #193 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 19:24:35 »
*I'm a security guard who makes security guard pay. So option 2 is viable for not much longer.
BUT I respect the people who chose this, and if this is the way the community wants me to go, I'll try to keep my head above water so I don't disappear for good. 

IMO don't bother. Catering to some greedy people on the Internet like me is less important than taking care of yourself.
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Offline glubazoid

  • Posts: 150
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #194 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 20:15:43 »
1

Offline vegs

  • Posts: 596
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 00:28:04 »
2

Edit: if 2 isn't viable for you, then by all means I support 1 too :thumb:
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 May 2019, 01:45:47 by vegs »
TGR 910 RE

Offline mrpetrov

  • Posts: 595
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 01:07:24 »
Jaxx, if this is any sort of a stretch for you financially definitely do not take this sort of risk for yourself and your family.  It is not worth risking financial security for a keyboard none of us actually need (vs want). 1 all the way mate.

Offline tusing

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 04:01:57 »
2

Edit: from a rational, realistic, and logistically sound point of view, 1
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 May 2019, 04:09:05 by tusing »

Offline fanovorc

  • Posts: 7
  • Location: China
Re: [IC] Plastic Alice (CRITICAL UPDATE - Need Your Input)
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 05:31:01 »
1 will be fine,I think more people know and get Alice will help improve the manufacture of UHMW Alice,and why not turn to Chinese community?there are many very excellent engineers and makers in Chinese keyboard community,maybe they have better solutions XD.

Offline demonahz

  • Posts: 35
  • Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: Plastic Alice
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 07:32:14 »
Ok, so first off:
Manufacturing:
I've been working seriously on trying to turn UHMW into a keyboard case and plate for the last six months. My experience with it before that was cutting sheets into pucks for longboarding gloves. UHMW can be smoothed. It can be machined fine. It is a nightmare for unexperienced machinists in that it turns to spaghetti not dust when CNC'd. Also there is thermal expansion and warping if it's not annealed properly. This can be mitigated by the tool path as well. Check the Irma thread for more, please. I won't be doing injection molding with because of the low numbers, but it is actually possible. I found several companies that do gas infusion for UHMW injection molding and have done it to the tolerances I need. Cost is the issue.
Also, US manufacturing cost sucks. Period. And integrity is seriously wanting.

IP/Biting/Shadiness:
Yuktsi signed off. It's his design, inspired by the EM7. I loved my EM7, but the Alice fixes what I didn't like about it.
This is not a rebranding of his design. I'm not naming it something else, although Felicia did cross my mind.
It's a new material that I think offers something in terms of durability, sound, feel, and looks.
I've heard many folks who have high-end boards complain about taking it to work. I'm one of those.

I've done my research on past GBs, and I really feel for anyone that's been burned, especially financially. But it also applies to the GB runners.
It's easy to hate on them without knowing what they went through. Or even knowing what they went through and thinking, "Well, he should have done xxx."
But that's in hindsight. I appreciate them because hopefully, I won't fall into those same traps.
I'm super lucky in that I've gotten great advice from people who have had smoooooth GB's, and advice also from people who had rocky ones.
Both kinds of advice are priceless.
People (Huey?) called it the "manufacturer roulette." And it's very true.

But here is my deal: I will let you know what's going on.
Every week or more. I promise it.
Not just during the IC, but even after I take your money. Especially then.
If things are going smooth and there's nothing to report, you'll get that report.
If I'm struggling with personal issues and it affects things, you'll hear that too.
If I take your money, I owe you a message. And I owe you what you paid for. I won't cover anything over with empty promises of fake dates or offer consolation prizes.
I only ask that we all be polite. Please don't say anything in a message you wouldn't say to my face. I'll do the same.

Love it. We need more of this on both sides.

this is why I'm giving you my money. I loved the attitude and you can count on me to support this. thanks for it :)