Topre APC

[typo]

So just about everyone likes Topre. I certainly do. If I would personally recommend one thing. Save the money and don't get the PFU limited The problem with APC is there is no indicator to show where it is at. It has really messed me up before. I say just get a plain R2. Unless you must have a special edition. I actually like the variable and it is the cheapest one. I wanted to point out, just because I know this, unfortunately He has not arose from the grave. Please stop speculating already. Anyhow YMMV on this. It is just my opinion. Of course that also gets you silent and no Thock either.

[treeleaf64]

It would help if you put more about why you don't like the APC

[Polymer]

The software tells you what the whole keyboard or individual keys are set to with APC.   Not to mention it is blatantly obvious which is which....or at least, when it comes to the lower actuation point, that is obvious...Plus even if you don't use the software, you can see (Red, blue green) what actuation point it is set to..

That's not a reason though...

I think APC is a good idea but the application of it only works if you have it that way consistently across all of your keyboards, which is unlikely. 

The other application I can think of but don't use personally, is if I wanted something specific to gaming and wanted it on particular keys only...So this might be a lower actuation point to prevent any accidental pushes..or a higher actuation point for a tiny improvement in response...but then I'd figure you can just as easily change it across the whole keyboard as well if you really wanted to.

Either way, the option is there.  There is also the fact that if you want 45g silent uniform...limited is your only option. 

[typo]

I agree with you Polymer. It is really for gaming. I guess I don't like it because I type. If it is on high for typing it is rather difficult. As for type 'S' it has it's place in an office. Otherwise I would think most people enjoy the "thock". At least that is what I gather. Just because the limited is a little more expensive does not really make it "better" in any way IMO. It has 2 other features should you require them.

Some long haul typists in fact prefer the variable. You can find many threads regarding that here. It is the people that type 8+ hours every day. Of course certain limited editions are coveted regardless. To me it is very relaxing coming off MX switches. I just do not get a super fancy case. My Grandfather did have a CNC Topre case. The board is broken. I do not even know how to take both apart. I will leave well enough alone.

[Polymer]

I agree with you Polymer. It is really for gaming. I guess I don't like it because I type. If it is on high for typing it is rather difficult. As for type 'S' it has it's place in an office. Otherwise I would think most people enjoy the "thock". At least that is what I gather. Just because the limited is a little more expensive does not really make it "better" in any way IMO. It has 2 other features should you require them.

Some long haul typists in fact prefer the variable. You can find many threads regarding that here. It is the people that type 8+ hours every day. Of course certain limited editions are coveted regardless. To me it is very relaxing coming off MX switches. I just do not get a super fancy case. My Grandfather did have a CNC Topre case. The board is broken. I do not even know how to take both apart. I will leave well enough alone.

Some people might like variable..some might not...but just stating if you want uniform 45g silent, you need to get it with APC....it doesn't really change the keyboard, just don't use it if you don't want to.

Could you post pics of your grandfather's topre case?  It was apparently very nice.

[Riverman]

I had thought about getting a PFU limited edition, but I didn't even think about having an indicator, especially if you're using it on a Mac, which doesn't support their software.  That does seem like a problem.  I have a pair of Realforce RGBs, which light up the entire keyboard for a couple of seconds in red, green, or blue, depending on the APC setting. 

[typo]

I honestly do not know where that case is. I think he bragged that it was custom made. I believe the truth is some company made them. I am ashamed I just outed him. Google Topre Aluminum housings or something. Should come up.

Now this is odd. I happen to be using a R2 RGB right now. When I press the APC there is not a thing to indicate that it has been pressed. I was using a Limited Edition. With Blue and Green key caps. Compared to the build of the RGB it is a much nicer keyboard. I think anything with Dye Sub is. Not just the caps. I think they have a better case too. I am not entirely sure.

[Polymer]

I honestly do not know where that case is. I think he bragged that it was custom made. I believe the truth is some company made them. I am ashamed I just outed him. Google Topre Aluminum housings or something. Should come up.

Now this is odd. I happen to be using a R2 RGB right now. When I press the APC there is not a thing to indicate that it has been pressed. I was using a Limited Edition. With Blue and Green key caps. Compared to the build of the RGB it is a much nicer keyboard. I think anything with Dye Sub is. Not just the caps. I think they have a better case too. I am not entirely sure.

I don't know what to tell you...I don't have the RGB.  You can also see it if you use the software although again, I don't have an RGB so I'm just assuming that's the case. 

[typo]

You know what? It is a typical RGB board. Even if it is a pricey Topre. I inherited it sealed in the box. Although the warranty is long past. I have used it perhaps 15 hours. 3 LED's are already acting up. It is really the weakest link they can put on a keyboard. YMMV.

I do not mind if APC is there. I would just never take it off the low setting. It is pretty obvious where it is at. I just would prefer boards without it. I also prefer without silencing. Of course there go all the better boards.
Still, even though a MX board can be much fancier there is nothing like cup rubber. I am already done with this RGB. I think this thing is over 300 bucks. I am going to use the Illuminati I just got. Read the thread for real insanity.

[HungerMechanic]

Sadly, last time I checked, in Canada you can only choose between the super-expensive PFU R2 APC silenced edition, or a regular 45 G non-silent non-APC. I just want a 45 G silent, and real 45 G, not Leopold's "45 G."

[typo]

I was thinking just now. I am not sure I should have posted the initial statement I had made. Something more like this. If one is a highly skilled touch typist performing in excess of 6 hours per day. The Variable may be much to their liking. If one is to game seriously at all the APC may be much to their liking. Of course, neither may hold true as well.

Just do not purchase a Topre on Amazon. Their pricing is insane. For instance, the RGB is over $800USD. I am not kidding. Go look. If you purchase anything Topre, Fujitsu Scanner Store is anyone's best bet. Except the Ivory 104 variable is sold out there. At the moment. I really feel no difference on the variable because I type properly I guess. It is nice to type in the dark not requiring back lighting. This should be taught in under school. Not an elective in High school. Just my opinion.

I really enjoy fancy MX boards. Long haul typing nothing matches Topre. I would not settle for a Leopold either. You might find too not any difference on the variable. Just get it with a return policy. It is after all the cheapest one. Interestingly, the most expensive one an HHKB is sans APC. The main thing I do not want is silent. The Thock is half the package IMO.The variable has less thock to begin with.

[typo]

I just realized why I personally do not like APC. With APC the maximum key travel setting is limited to 3.0mm. Boards without APC have a maximum key travel of 4.0mm. Of course the keys register before this. It is not true that one must bottom out on a Topre board. I do not. At least not on boards that do not have APC. AH-HA! I thought that this was in fact rather noteworthy so I added it. Pretty much most people are of the thought that they must bottom out on a Topre board. If you touch type very proficiently it is not required by any means. At least not on a board lacking APC. I am not bashing APC. It has it's place and anyone is certainly welcome to use it. I personally feel that the variable board makes for the best serious typing machine. I have all of them. For me personally APC really puts a kink in my game. No pun intended. Anyone else's results may be completely different.

[Polymer]

I just realized why I personally do not like APC. With APC the maximum key travel setting is limited to 3.0mm. Boards without APC have a maximum key travel of 4.0mm. Of course the keys register before this. It is not true that one must bottom out on a Topre board. I do not. At least not on boards that do not have APC. AH-HA! I thought that this was in fact rather noteworthy so I added it. Pretty much most people are of the thought that they must bottom out on a Topre board. If you touch type very proficiently it is not required by any means. At least not on a board lacking APC. I am not bashing APC. It has it's place and anyone is certainly welcome to use it. I personally feel that the variable board makes for the best serious typing machine. I have all of them. For me personally APC really puts a kink in my game. No pun intended. Anyone else's results may be completely different.

None of what you said is true.  Travel for a keyboard with APC is the same as ones without. 

You do bottom out with topre. 

[typo]

Polymer, look at Topre's specs. It has nothing to do with the APC. The boards with APC have keys that have a full mechanical travel of 3.00mm. Not virtual travel. The boards without it are at 4.00mm. Just check the specs.

I personally do not bottom out on 4.00mm boards. I know most people do. I have trained myself not to.

You are correct. The PFU limited can be 4.00mm. it comes with a plate installed limiting it to 3.00mm. Upon removal of the plate it will be 4.00mm. It is no big deal to remove the plate.

[Polymer]

Polymer, look at Topre's specs. It has nothing to do with the APC. The boards with APC have keys that have a full mechanical travel of 3.00mm. Not virtual travel. The boards without it are at 4.00mm. Just check the specs.

I personally do not bottom out on 4.00mm boards. I know most people do. I have trained myself not to.

You are correct. The PFU limited can be 4.00mm. it comes with a plate installed limiting it to 3.00mm. Upon removal of the plate it will be 4.00mm. It is no big deal to remove the plate.

It's 4mm.  Whatever you're reading, you're reading it wrong.  3mm is the lowest actuation point.  4mm is the travel. 

And yes, you bottom out with Topre.  Unless you're using 30/35g Topre, you're bottoming out or you're typing very slowly to just prevent yourself from bottoming out. 

[Riverman]

Here's the official Topre page on the PFU Limited Edition:

https://www.realforce.co.jp/en/products/R2TLSA-US4-IV/

If you scroll down to the bottom, you can see that key travel is listed as 4mm, the same as any other Topre keyboard.  The keyboard comes with a pair of foam sheets that can limit key travel, but neither one is installed at the factory.  Out of the box, it's a normal 4mm travel keyboard.

Unrelated to this, I think it's interesting that they list the keycap profile as "Step Sculpture".  I thought that was just a Leopold term for something more or less Cherry profile, but maybe the relationship between the two companies goes deeper than Leopold just slapping their name on the occasional Topre board.

[typo]

It is indeed 4.00mm. I apologize. The non APC boards seem to me to have further travel to the actuation point. More than 3.00mm. It could be my imagination. I honestly prefer the variable. Personal preference. The truth Is I touch type at very high WPM and accuracy. Therefore I use a very light touch. I honestly bottom out on it seldom. I understand that this is not the norm with Topre. So I can see it being hard to believe.

Anyhow my point of this thread was for me personally APC is a can of worms. I am never sure where it is at. It can really ruin a page for me. That is just me. Anyone else may fair much better. I also do not like silent. So the Limited is not on my desk ever. I did not save anything because I already have several of them. I was just talking solely about myself. Perhaps a few others have this experience. I would gather that most people do not. The limited has the aforementioned extra features. It is not a higher quality keyboard in any way that I am aware of. Actual limited editions I do enjoy to collect even if they do have APC. I will have Friends in Japan send them to me. Luckily I have a Brokerage service.

I will say that MX boards can be much fancier. At the end of the day the real typing is done of the Topre. I also vastly prefer full size. Now, we do not need to debate this. Again, my personal preference. I have no problem to get around an HHKB but I just vastly prefer the full board. I really do not think people should be shunned for there preferences so long as they state that they are such.
Anyway, I do not think anyone can go wrong with anything from Topre. You could go wrong with a $50 MX board

[Polymer]

It is indeed 4.00mm. I apologize. The non APC boards seem to me to have further travel to the actuation point. More than 3.00mm. It could be my imagination. I honestly prefer the variable. Personal preference. The truth Is I touch type at very high WPM and accuracy. Therefore I use a very light touch. I honestly bottom out on it seldom. I understand that this is not the norm with Topre. So I can see it being hard to believe.

Anyhow my point of this thread was for me personally APC is a can of worms. I am never sure where it is at. It can really ruin a page for me. That is just me. Anyone else may fair much better. I also do not like silent. So the Limited is not on my desk ever. I did not save anything because I already have several of them. I was just talking solely about myself. Perhaps a few others have this experience. I would gather that most people do not. The limited has the aforementioned extra features. It is not a higher quality keyboard in any way that I am aware of. Actual limited editions I do enjoy to collect even if they do have APC. I will have Friends in Japan send them to me. Luckily I have a Brokerage service.

I will say that MX boards can be much fancier. At the end of the day the real typing is done of the Topre. I also vastly prefer full size. Now, we do not need to debate this. Again, my personal preference. I have no problem to get around an HHKB but I just vastly prefer the full board. I really do not think people should be shunned for there preferences so long as they state that they are such.
Anyway, I do not think anyone can go wrong with anything from Topre. You could go wrong with a $50 MX board

You're not making any sense.  APC allows you to have 3 actuation points....none of that has to do with travel. 

And you bottom out with topre...and btw, welcome back the real typo.

[Riverman]

Just to clear up something about the APC setting confusion, I bought a Topre Realforce for Mac keyboard with APC today.  The colors of the caps/num/scroll/etc. LEDs all change when you press the APC key so you know what the setting is.  I can't imagine that the Windows versions don't do the same thing.  You just have to remember what color is what activation level (blue = 3mm, green =2.2mm, red = 1.5mm).  The RGB, in comparison, lights up the entire keyboard in blue, green, or red, but the colors mean the same thing.

On a side note, this Mac version is a uniform silenced 35g model, and it's surprisingly nice to type on.  It really doesn't feel very tactile, but it's not mushy, either, which is what I was afraid of.  Of course it's extremely quiet, since it's factory silenced keyboard.

[typo]

I never said APC had anything to do with travel. Think what you want about my Grandfather. You know, That would be a real sick thing to do.
There are a rarity of people including myself. That touch type very lightly. We are able to consistently actuate a 45G Topre Board without bottoming out.
Although I have difficulty doing so on a HHKB. I just feel more cramped on it to begin with I guess. I really prefer the Full Size.

I have to be honest. The RGB is trashed. No wonder the APC is not flashing. It has all kinds of issues. I mean mine. Not in general.
I feel that the regular R2 is higher quality than the RGB. I do not know if that is correct.

Anyway, my favorite board is the variable. Just personal preference. It makes a difference typing fast and accurate for many hours. Especially to the pinkies.

[Polymer]

Just to clear up something about the APC setting confusion, I bought a Topre Realforce for Mac keyboard with APC today.  The colors of the caps/num/scroll/etc. LEDs all change when you press the APC key so you know what the setting is.  I can't imagine that the Windows versions don't do the same thing.  You just have to remember what color is what activation level (blue = 3mm, green =2.2mm, red = 1.5mm).  The RGB, in comparison, lights up the entire keyboard in blue, green, or red, but the colors mean the same thing.

On a side note, this Mac version is a uniform silenced 35g model, and it's surprisingly nice to type on.  It really doesn't feel very tactile, but it's not mushy, either, which is what I was afraid of.  Of course it's extremely quiet, since it's factory silenced keyboard.

Its the same...You can also have a user setting so you can have different actuation points for each individual key if you want..

[Polymer]

I never said APC had anything to do with travel. Think what you want about my Grandfather. You know, That would be a real sick thing to do.
There are a rarity of people including myself. That touch type very lightly. We are able to consistently actuate a 45G Topre Board without bottoming out.
Although I have difficulty doing so on a HHKB. I just feel more cramped on it to begin with I guess. I really prefer the Full Size.

I have to be honest. The RGB is trashed. No wonder the APC is not flashing. It has all kinds of issues. I mean mine. Not in general.
I feel that the regular R2 is higher quality than the RGB. I do not know if that is correct.

Anyway, my favorite board is the variable. Just personal preference. It makes a difference typing fast and accurate for many hours. Especially to the pinkies.

You bottom out with Topre unless you're typing in a very unusual way which would also involve typing slowly....but you're a fast typist right?  You're bottoming out...Or else prove it.  Simple video.  Of course you won't do that though..

[typo]

You just press very lightly. that is hard to believe? Just until you feel it crush. You maybe don't know that I am using BKE Light. Does that make any difference? I have ultra light for the pinkies.

[Polymer]

You just press very lightly. that is hard to believe? Just until you feel it crush. You maybe don't know that I am using BKE Light. Does that make any difference? I have ultra light for the pinkies.

If you have very light domes it is possible but BKE lights are not light as in 30-35g...and they very snappy which makes it even more difficult...

With lights which are what, 50-55g?  You're bottoming out...it isn't a matter of hitting the keys lightly...you have to press hard enough to collapse the dome and at that point, you've already provided enough force to hit bottom...If you're typing slowly or with your finger pads (so your fingers are horizontal) then it would be possible..but with speed, no.

Maybe you're hitting bottom very lightly..that is possible..but you're hitting bottom...anytime anyone says they don't bottom out with 45g+ Topre, they're either mistaken or lying...

[typo]

You know what Polymer? I am also so wasted since My Grandpa died I don't even know. I will give this one to you. I do not hit it hard like sore fingers.
I did have a question: why do R2 PBT spacebars seem like they were made uneven with a router.

[Riverman]

What part of the space bars do you think feels uneven?  Mine feels fine.

[typo]

Nah, I mean the top surface of them seems to me unevenly sculpted. I am using a very high CRI light. It is entirely possible just a reflection. Since I lock every board in the same tray. I would rather doubt they botch every space bar made. That must have been a stupid question. Sorry. I realized it was the light when I just put in a Japanese HHKB. My bad.

[Polymer]

You know what Polymer? I am also so wasted since My Grandpa died I don't even know. I will give this one to you. I do not hit it hard like sore fingers.
I did have a question: why do R2 PBT spacebars seem like they were made uneven with a router.

Stop w/ the whole Grandpa thing...

In the extreme chance you're telling the truth, you should be using your own username as you've said multiple times but never done.  So do us the favor and change to YOUR OWN username or stop the troll.

[typo]

I just wanted to capitalize on the ability to have over 1620 posts. My Grandfather earned that for myself. Almost no one like(D) either one of us regardless. Let me ask you honestly. Do you fancy me better with one post, or over 1620? Enough said. I do want to hand it to you for at least being civil as of late. It is one thing if you despise me. It is another entirely if you are to constantly let it be known. I do in fact appreciate that. Even going so far as to engage in conversation with me. Hats off. I am in no way being sarcastic. I think everyone can get along regardless of what their differences may be. I have witnessed White faction speak with Militant Black. Honest truth. They just happened to find something in common. In that case it was Motorcycles. That is the wonderful thing about a Topic. We would otherwise avoid each other. Anyway, about your point. You are most certainly correct and you know it. In regard to my very minor infraction. Is it causing any type of harm here? Everyone knows or thinks who it is. I also kind of wanted to retain his legacy. If you are able to look past our differences. The Username should be of no importance whatsoever. The truth is eventually I will be forced. So just sit tight please. I honestly mean no one any malice here or anywhere for that matter. It bewilders me as to why I would be the subject of such. Yes, I am odd. Should I be attacked for being so? Thank you 

[typo]

On a lighter note. My creation of this thread was moot. The above including this has been typed on a PFU Limited 108. I have now revisited it extensively. For typing I have the actuation set at 3.00mm. I am noticing no difference to a RealForce R2 lacking APC. You Guy's were indeed correct. So much for that. I am not sure what led me to think there was a problem present. Well I do. The RGB. That has nothing to do with APC. I will go so far as to say that the RGB is junk. Topre should be ashamed to slap their name on that. Many share my sentiment. Of course that is IMO,YMMV. However if you examine it and dismantle it, it is readily obvious it is not the same quality. So I got tripped up typing on a RGB. Not APC on a PFU. Duh.

I will say one more preference of mine. Since I am not going anywhere and I code very seriously for real, not pretend. I find the PFU 108 vastly superior to the HHKB Hybrid-S. Plus you do not have the USB jack to fail or battery contacts to fail. Trust me, when the warranty is over. Seriously, why would I want layers instead of dedicated keys? I never got the attraction. I am typing plenty fast and accurate. All that does is slow WPM. This comes with IMO,YMMV as well. So please I am not the subject of anyone's defense of the product! If you love it, please feel free to buy at least half of one Million of them for your own personal needs. I mean only if you want to of course. I am just saying opinions vary. Any serious large Business in Tokyo I only see PFU 108 on each desk. Still, of course get whatever you like. Even MX and not Topre at all.

One last thing. within the next 4 hours it will have variable weight BKE. Plus a Norbaforce aluminum housing(not the one that is missing), 15 pound carbon steel internal weight,thin sheet of wool,hardwired quadbraided paracord, cherry sliders from Cherry board, KAT Keycaps from several sets. Actually this will probably take me overnight. 4 hours, who am I kidding......I will post a pic eventually. Google Topre Norbaforce

[Polymer]

I just wanted to capitalize on the ability to have over 1620 posts. My Grandfather earned that for myself. Almost no one like(D) either one of us regardless. Let me ask you honestly. Do you fancy me better with one post, or over 1620? Enough said. I do want to hand it to you for at least being civil as of late. It is one thing if you despise me. It is another entirely if you are to constantly let it be known. I do in fact appreciate that. Even going so far as to engage in conversation with me. Hats off. I am in no way being sarcastic. I think everyone can get along regardless of what their differences may be. I have witnessed White faction speak with Militant Black. Honest truth. They just happened to find something in common. In that case it was Motorcycles. That is the wonderful thing about a Topic. We would otherwise avoid each other. Anyway, about your point. You are most certainly correct and you know it. In regard to my very minor infraction. Is it causing any type of harm here? Everyone knows or thinks who it is. I also kind of wanted to retain his legacy. If you are able to look past our differences. The Username should be of no importance whatsoever. The truth is eventually I will be forced. So just sit tight please. I honestly mean no one any malice here or anywhere for that matter. It bewilders me as to why I would be the subject of such. Yes, I am odd. Should I be attacked for being so? Thank you

There is nothing to capitalize on.  You're the same person.  Stop with the BS story and move on. 

[typo]

Okay. We shall go forth under that assumption. However, it is going to be rather difficult for me not to refer to "My Grandpa".

>I decided after 4 day's to delete my posting. I am very surprised no one was outraged. I was ultimately not comfortable with it. It has been removed.
Everyone is fully entitled to their own opinions.