Author Topic: Topre APC  (Read 1442 times)

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Offline typo

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Topre APC
« on: Sun, 03 January 2021, 07:59:48 »
So just about everyone likes Topre. I certainly do. If I would personally recommend one thing. Save the money and don't get the PFU limited The problem with APC is there is no indicator to show where it is at. It has really messed me up before. I say just get a plain R2. Unless you must have a special edition. I actually like the variable and it is the cheapest one. I wanted to point out, just because I know this, unfortunately He has not arose from the grave. Please stop speculating already. Anyhow YMMV on this. It is just my opinion. Of course that also gets you silent and no Thock either.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 03 January 2021, 18:49:26 »
It would help if you put more about why you don't like the APC
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 03 January 2021, 20:45:28 »
The software tells you what the whole keyboard or individual keys are set to with APC.   Not to mention it is blatantly obvious which is which....or at least, when it comes to the lower actuation point, that is obvious...Plus even if you don't use the software, you can see (Red, blue green) what actuation point it is set to..

That's not a reason though...

I think APC is a good idea but the application of it only works if you have it that way consistently across all of your keyboards, which is unlikely. 

The other application I can think of but don't use personally, is if I wanted something specific to gaming and wanted it on particular keys only...So this might be a lower actuation point to prevent any accidental pushes..or a higher actuation point for a tiny improvement in response...but then I'd figure you can just as easily change it across the whole keyboard as well if you really wanted to.

Either way, the option is there.  There is also the fact that if you want 45g silent uniform...limited is your only option. 

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 03 January 2021, 23:54:30 »
I agree with you Polymer. It is really for gaming. I guess I don't like it because I type. If it is on high for typing it is rather difficult. As for type 'S' it has it's place in an office. Otherwise I would think most people enjoy the "thock". At least that is what I gather. Just because the limited is a little more expensive does not really make it "better" in any way IMO. It has 2 other features should you require them.

Some long haul typists in fact prefer the variable. You can find many threads regarding that here. It is the people that type 8+ hours every day. Of course certain limited editions are coveted regardless. To me it is very relaxing coming off MX switches. I just do not get a super fancy case. My Grandfather did have a CNC Topre case. The board is broken. I do not even know how to take both apart. I will leave well enough alone.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 10:30:34 »
I agree with you Polymer. It is really for gaming. I guess I don't like it because I type. If it is on high for typing it is rather difficult. As for type 'S' it has it's place in an office. Otherwise I would think most people enjoy the "thock". At least that is what I gather. Just because the limited is a little more expensive does not really make it "better" in any way IMO. It has 2 other features should you require them.

Some long haul typists in fact prefer the variable. You can find many threads regarding that here. It is the people that type 8+ hours every day. Of course certain limited editions are coveted regardless. To me it is very relaxing coming off MX switches. I just do not get a super fancy case. My Grandfather did have a CNC Topre case. The board is broken. I do not even know how to take both apart. I will leave well enough alone.

Some people might like variable..some might not...but just stating if you want uniform 45g silent, you need to get it with APC....it doesn't really change the keyboard, just don't use it if you don't want to.

Could you post pics of your grandfather's topre case?  It was apparently very nice.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 11:08:22 »
I had thought about getting a PFU limited edition, but I didn't even think about having an indicator, especially if you're using it on a Mac, which doesn't support their software.  That does seem like a problem.  I have a pair of Realforce RGBs, which light up the entire keyboard for a couple of seconds in red, green, or blue, depending on the APC setting. 

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 14:57:55 »
I honestly do not know where that case is. I think he bragged that it was custom made. I believe the truth is some company made them. I am ashamed I just outed him. Google Topre Aluminum housings or something. Should come up.

Now this is odd. I happen to be using a R2 RGB right now. When I press the APC there is not a thing to indicate that it has been pressed. I was using a Limited Edition. With Blue and Green key caps. Compared to the build of the RGB it is a much nicer keyboard. I think anything with Dye Sub is. Not just the caps. I think they have a better case too. I am not entirely sure.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 15:45:16 »
I honestly do not know where that case is. I think he bragged that it was custom made. I believe the truth is some company made them. I am ashamed I just outed him. Google Topre Aluminum housings or something. Should come up.

Now this is odd. I happen to be using a R2 RGB right now. When I press the APC there is not a thing to indicate that it has been pressed. I was using a Limited Edition. With Blue and Green key caps. Compared to the build of the RGB it is a much nicer keyboard. I think anything with Dye Sub is. Not just the caps. I think they have a better case too. I am not entirely sure.

I don't know what to tell you...I don't have the RGB.  You can also see it if you use the software although again, I don't have an RGB so I'm just assuming that's the case. 

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 17:15:36 »
You know what? It is a typical RGB board. Even if it is a pricey Topre. I inherited it sealed in the box. Although the warranty is long past. I have used it perhaps 15 hours. 3 LED's are already acting up. It is really the weakest link they can put on a keyboard. YMMV.

I do not mind if APC is there. I would just never take it off the low setting. It is pretty obvious where it is at. I just would prefer boards without it. I also prefer without silencing. Of course there go all the better boards.
Still, even though a MX board can be much fancier there is nothing like cup rubber. I am already done with this RGB. I think this thing is over 300 bucks. I am going to use the Illuminati I just got. Read the thread for real insanity.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 20:51:42 »
Sadly, last time I checked, in Canada you can only choose between the super-expensive PFU R2 APC silenced edition, or a regular 45 G non-silent non-APC. I just want a 45 G silent, and real 45 G, not Leopold's "45 G."

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 06 January 2021, 00:10:18 »
I was thinking just now. I am not sure I should have posted the initial statement I had made. Something more like this. If one is a highly skilled touch typist performing in excess of 6 hours per day. The Variable may be much to their liking. If one is to game seriously at all the APC may be much to their liking. Of course, neither may hold true as well.

Just do not purchase a Topre on Amazon. Their pricing is insane. For instance, the RGB is over $800USD. I am not kidding. Go look. If you purchase anything Topre, Fujitsu Scanner Store is anyone's best bet. Except the Ivory 104 variable is sold out there. At the moment. I really feel no difference on the variable because I type properly I guess. It is nice to type in the dark not requiring back lighting. This should be taught in under school. Not an elective in High school. Just my opinion.

I really enjoy fancy MX boards. Long haul typing nothing matches Topre. I would not settle for a Leopold either. You might find too not any difference on the variable. Just get it with a return policy. It is after all the cheapest one. Interestingly, the most expensive one an HHKB is sans APC. The main thing I do not want is silent. The Thock is half the package IMO.The variable has less thock to begin with.
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 January 2021, 00:12:20 by typo »

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 10 January 2021, 17:45:49 »
I just realized why I personally do not like APC. With APC the maximum key travel setting is limited to 3.0mm. Boards without APC have a maximum key travel of 4.0mm. Of course the keys register before this. It is not true that one must bottom out on a Topre board. I do not. At least not on boards that do not have APC. AH-HA! I thought that this was in fact rather noteworthy so I added it. Pretty much most people are of the thought that they must bottom out on a Topre board. If you touch type very proficiently it is not required by any means. At least not on a board lacking APC. I am not bashing APC. It has it's place and anyone is certainly welcome to use it. I personally feel that the variable board makes for the best serious typing machine. I have all of them. For me personally APC really puts a kink in my game. No pun intended. Anyone else's results may be completely different.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 12 January 2021, 13:30:34 »
I just realized why I personally do not like APC. With APC the maximum key travel setting is limited to 3.0mm. Boards without APC have a maximum key travel of 4.0mm. Of course the keys register before this. It is not true that one must bottom out on a Topre board. I do not. At least not on boards that do not have APC. AH-HA! I thought that this was in fact rather noteworthy so I added it. Pretty much most people are of the thought that they must bottom out on a Topre board. If you touch type very proficiently it is not required by any means. At least not on a board lacking APC. I am not bashing APC. It has it's place and anyone is certainly welcome to use it. I personally feel that the variable board makes for the best serious typing machine. I have all of them. For me personally APC really puts a kink in my game. No pun intended. Anyone else's results may be completely different.

None of what you said is true.  Travel for a keyboard with APC is the same as ones without. 

You do bottom out with topre. 

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 12 January 2021, 20:27:20 »
Polymer, look at Topre's specs. It has nothing to do with the APC. The boards with APC have keys that have a full mechanical travel of 3.00mm. Not virtual travel. The boards without it are at 4.00mm. Just check the specs.

I personally do not bottom out on 4.00mm boards. I know most people do. I have trained myself not to.

You are correct. The PFU limited can be 4.00mm. it comes with a plate installed limiting it to 3.00mm. Upon removal of the plate it will be 4.00mm. It is no big deal to remove the plate.
« Last Edit: Tue, 12 January 2021, 20:55:03 by typo »

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 13 January 2021, 01:00:54 »
Polymer, look at Topre's specs. It has nothing to do with the APC. The boards with APC have keys that have a full mechanical travel of 3.00mm. Not virtual travel. The boards without it are at 4.00mm. Just check the specs.

I personally do not bottom out on 4.00mm boards. I know most people do. I have trained myself not to.

You are correct. The PFU limited can be 4.00mm. it comes with a plate installed limiting it to 3.00mm. Upon removal of the plate it will be 4.00mm. It is no big deal to remove the plate.

It's 4mm.  Whatever you're reading, you're reading it wrong.  3mm is the lowest actuation point.  4mm is the travel. 

And yes, you bottom out with Topre.  Unless you're using 30/35g Topre, you're bottoming out or you're typing very slowly to just prevent yourself from bottoming out. 


Offline Riverman

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 13 January 2021, 10:46:41 »
Here's the official Topre page on the PFU Limited Edition:

https://www.realforce.co.jp/en/products/R2TLSA-US4-IV/

If you scroll down to the bottom, you can see that key travel is listed as 4mm, the same as any other Topre keyboard.  The keyboard comes with a pair of foam sheets that can limit key travel, but neither one is installed at the factory.  Out of the box, it's a normal 4mm travel keyboard.

Unrelated to this, I think it's interesting that they list the keycap profile as "Step Sculpture".  I thought that was just a Leopold term for something more or less Cherry profile, but maybe the relationship between the two companies goes deeper than Leopold just slapping their name on the occasional Topre board.

Offline typo

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 20:06:42 »
It is indeed 4.00mm. I apologize. The non APC boards seem to me to have further travel to the actuation point. More than 3.00mm. It could be my imagination. I honestly prefer the variable. Personal preference. The truth Is I touch type at very high WPM and accuracy. Therefore I use a very light touch. I honestly bottom out on it seldom. I understand that this is not the norm with Topre. So I can see it being hard to believe.

Anyhow my point of this thread was for me personally APC is a can of worms. I am never sure where it is at. It can really ruin a page for me. That is just me. Anyone else may fair much better. I also do not like silent. So the Limited is not on my desk ever. I did not save anything because I already have several of them. I was just talking solely about myself. Perhaps a few others have this experience. I would gather that most people do not. The limited has the aforementioned extra features. It is not a higher quality keyboard in any way that I am aware of. Actual limited editions I do enjoy to collect even if they do have APC. I will have Friends in Japan send them to me. Luckily I have a Brokerage service.

I will say that MX boards can be much fancier. At the end of the day the real typing is done of the Topre. I also vastly prefer full size. Now, we do not need to debate this. Again, my personal preference. I have no problem to get around an HHKB but I just vastly prefer the full board. I really do not think people should be shunned for there preferences so long as they state that they are such.
Anyway, I do not think anyone can go wrong with anything from Topre. You could go wrong with a $50 MX board :)

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 19:49:44 »
It is indeed 4.00mm. I apologize. The non APC boards seem to me to have further travel to the actuation point. More than 3.00mm. It could be my imagination. I honestly prefer the variable. Personal preference. The truth Is I touch type at very high WPM and accuracy. Therefore I use a very light touch. I honestly bottom out on it seldom. I understand that this is not the norm with Topre. So I can see it being hard to believe.

Anyhow my point of this thread was for me personally APC is a can of worms. I am never sure where it is at. It can really ruin a page for me. That is just me. Anyone else may fair much better. I also do not like silent. So the Limited is not on my desk ever. I did not save anything because I already have several of them. I was just talking solely about myself. Perhaps a few others have this experience. I would gather that most people do not. The limited has the aforementioned extra features. It is not a higher quality keyboard in any way that I am aware of. Actual limited editions I do enjoy to collect even if they do have APC. I will have Friends in Japan send them to me. Luckily I have a Brokerage service.

I will say that MX boards can be much fancier. At the end of the day the real typing is done of the Topre. I also vastly prefer full size. Now, we do not need to debate this. Again, my personal preference. I have no problem to get around an HHKB but I just vastly prefer the full board. I really do not think people should be shunned for there preferences so long as they state that they are such.
Anyway, I do not think anyone can go wrong with anything from Topre. You could go wrong with a $50 MX board :)

You're not making any sense.  APC allows you to have 3 actuation points....none of that has to do with travel. 

And you bottom out with topre...and btw, welcome back the real typo.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Topre APC
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 22:42:18 »
Just to clear up something about the APC setting confusion, I bought a Topre Realforce for Mac keyboard with APC today.  The colors of the caps/num/scroll/etc. LEDs all change when you press the APC key so you know what the setting is.  I can't imagine that the Windows versions don't do the same thing.  You just have to remember what color is what activation level (blue = 3mm, green =2.2mm, red = 1.5mm).  The RGB, in comparison, lights up the entire keyboard in blue, green, or red, but the colors mean the same thing.

On a side note, this Mac version is a uniform silenced 35g model, and it's surprisingly nice to type on.  It really doesn't feel very tactile, but it's not mushy, either, which is what I was afraid of.  Of course it's extremely quiet, since it's factory silenced keyboard.