Modified Happy Hacker Layout

[instantkamera]

gee whiz. No one is forcing you to buy an HHKB. If the layout doesn't work for you than move on to something else.
If you are looking for something that is close to the feel of the topre switches than just get a filco tenkeyless with cherry browns.

Just curious. I use ssh but don't understand the use of tilde as an escape character. Can you explain?

Sorry I quoted your post to make a point, but it was totally not directed at you.

It's just the attitude I see here (in this very thread and many times before) from HHKB users. pictures don't so it justice, the layout is fine/awesome/the best evar, the modifier thing is a non-issue, etc etc.

It's simply not true, and I'm just stating factual reasons why certain people don't/won't like the thing WITHOUT having to use it to be allowed to say so.

re: ssh:

aaron@shell2:~$ ~?
Supported escape sequences:
  ~.  - terminate connection (and any multiplexed sessions)
  ~B  - send a BREAK to the remote system
  ~C  - open a command line
  ~R  - Request rekey (SSH protocol 2 only)
  ~^Z - suspend ssh
  ~#  - list forwarded connections
  ~&  - background ssh (when waiting for connections to terminate)
  ~?  - this message
  ~~  - send the escape character by typing it twice

I use a few of these fairly often (I mentioned earlier that I spend a good portion of my time attached to numerous systems, using screen(a lot of ctrl-a-* for me) and daisy chained/tunneled into even more. I just want to keep life as simple as possible.)

[bigpook]

I can see where the key layout and size would be put some people off. The HHKB is in no way a mainstream keyboard, but for the niche market it appeals to it seemingly does very well.

You would really have to try one out before you pass a final judgement on it. While the pictures, reviews and user opinions do have a certain value to them, you need to have one in front of you to use in real time to know for sure. But...

You mentioned 'A layout that strays too far from the standard path for me will end up driving me insane as I just don't have the time' pretty much says it all.

If you are looking for Topre switches in a standard layout then you may be interested in the RealForce...if not...

Its clear the HHKB layout isn't for everyone, but I don't think it was meant to be. I spent 4 years using an HHKB lite as I didn't have the money to buy the Pro and even with the ****ty switches the layout shined for me. But thats for me.

There are some keyboards that bring out the crazy in all of us. For some its the Model M Space Saving, or the RealForce...theres lots of people here waving the flag for their favorite keyboard. : )

thanks for the ssh info...

[instantkamera]

I can see where the key layout and size would be put some people off. The HHKB is in no way a mainstream keyboard, but for the niche market it appeals to it seemingly does very well.

I agree, I just don't think you are any less a "happy hacker" banging away on any board you so chose to use.

You would really have to try one out before you pass a final judgement on it. While the pictures, reviews and user opinions do have a certain value to them, you need to have one in front of you to use in real time to know for sure.

Yeah, but unless someone I know buys one first, that's not going to happen. The cost IS prohibitive for a buy-n-try, although it seems resale might allow one to break even?

You mentioned 'A layout that strays too far from the standard path for me will end up driving me insane as I just don't have the time' pretty much says it all.

If you are looking for Topre switches in a standard layout then you may be interested in the RealForce...if not...

That's right. I don't WANT my '`~' moved. I don't want my '\|' moved. I don't want ctrl moved. I don't wan't a board that lacks both arrow and edit clusters and I don't want that functionality restored via yet another modifier key.

I can see it being a good compact board for typing, or for people familiar with the layout already, but that's not me. I realized after being here for a while that I don't really "type" a lot. I spend a lot of my time making really sketchy scripts and reading logs and that sort of thing; more thinking than typing for sure. So changes to all those things that surround the alpha cluster would bother me ALMOST more than switching from QWERTY to something else ("almost", because, of course, that would mess with my muscle-memorized shortcuts too). Point is that I can assess a layout with having to USE it.

Now, realforce does have me curious for sure. I would love to try the topres (and I hear they are especially well implemented on RF boards), and their build quality is a big selling point...

Its clear the HHKB layout isn't for everyone, but I don't think it was meant to be. I spent 4 years using an HHKB lite as I didn't have the money to buy the Pro and even with the ****ty switches the layout shined for me. But thats for me.

Fair enough. Again, I know some people love it and that is great. They look super slick, so I kind of wish I had one anyway.

There are some keyboards that bring out the crazy in all of us. For some its the Model M Space Saving, or the RealForce...theres lots of people here waving the flag for their favorite keyboard. : )

Not sure I have found that yet... I think the SS industrial might do it for me though.

thanks for the ssh info...

de rien.




***
For the record, I don't really agree with the OP's layout necessarily being an amelioration of the orig, I just wanted to agree that the original layout sucks (IMO, of course).

[itlnstln]

Like Pook said, it's not for everyone, and if you like what you are using, that's great.  I, myself, was a staunch "standard layout" guy, too, but the HHKB layout is so different that what you see is not just moving a couple of keys around, but a key placement that has it's own "harmony" and logic just like ISO or ANSI has it's own flow and logic.  I can switch back and forth between the two with no problems since they are so different (with the exception of pressing "\\\\\\\\\" for about 5 minutes when backspacing), so it really doesn't mess with your muscle memory.  The efficiency kills, too.  If you search the forum, there is an Autohotkey script that is supposed to get you pretty close to the HHKB's layout on a standard 'board, so you may want to check that out.

[instantkamera]

It's a Unix Beard thing.

Yeah, I wish I had one of those ...

[ch_123]

It's just the attitude I see here (in this very thread and many times before) from HHKB users. pictures don't so it justice, the layout is fine/awesome/the best evar, the modifier thing is a non-issue, etc etc.

Compared with the fact that most people who diss the thing have never used it. I'd generally consider that an impediment to an informed opinion.

Seriously, if the layout doesn't suit your needs, that's great. Lots of people around here have HHKBs and love them - obviously there's something good about it.

[ch_123]

It's not like buyers haven't complained too.

People really need to think about that layout before buying.

Plus, I'm pissed that Topre/PFU appears to be coasting and not innovating with their $250 keyboards.

It's definitely not perfect, but the design has more merit than a lot of people give it credit for.

[itlnstln]

I think the main thing is that the HHKB is more its own layout, not just ANSI with a few keys moved around.  With that said, I would say it's beneficial to try it before you knock it.  I didn't think I would like it, but I bit the bullet and got one and couldn't be happier.

[instantkamera]

Compared with the fact that most people who diss the thing have never used it. I'd generally consider that an impediment to an informed opinion.

I mean, just "dissing" something for the sake of doing so is fairly silly. I'm sure you have a reason to think that is the case a lot of the time, as the HHKB owners' hostility to any "anti" (using the term very loosely here) HHKB sentiment is evident (which Im attributing to some heated debate I may have missed).

Seriously, if the layout doesn't suit your needs, that's great. Lots of people around here have HHKBs and love them - obviously there's something good about it.

I haven't once argued that. But can you honestly say I haven't made valid points against it that could be taken as valuable to a potential buyer? If so, then you haven't really been reading.

It's not like I say:

"We'll, it sucks, 'cause the layout is different"  ... period, end of story.

I said:

"Here is a valid list of TECHNICAL/physical reasons why the current layout may not work for some, as it would not for me." ... and gave the reasons.

AGAIN, I would like to re-iterate, Im sure the HHKB is the bomb for some. IF you dont care about the placement of certain keys (you are used to the layout already or have time and desire to adapt), or you DO care and specifically want the layout, then you SHOULD be taking a serious look at this thing.
It looks ****ing wicked in every configuration I have seen it in, has a cool form factor and has, by many accounts, the best mechanical switches currently being made.
I also pointed out that one could likely test drive one of these at no cost, since they do seem to be popular enough to resell quite close to original price.

[hyperlinked]

I said:

"Here is a valid list of TECHNICAL/physical reasons why the current layout may not work for some, as it would not for me." ... and gave the reasons.

I'm understanding the layout better now, but my remaining issue is that the pinky finger is not a good finger to feature as your preferred modifer key holder. It decreases the mobility of your other fingers and amplifies hand muscle tension to be keying with your pinky or ring finger already contracted on the same hand.

[RoboKrikit]

I'm understanding the layout better now, but my remaining issue is that the pinky finger is not a good finger to feature as your preferred modifer key holder. It decreases the mobility of your other fingers and amplifies hand muscle tension to be keying with your pinky or ring finger already contracted on the same hand.

You can turn the left ⌘ key into Fn with a dipswitch on the back.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

It's just those "older members" that have that attitude.  It's a Unix Beard thing.

Whatever. I do confess to've been using Unix-like systems for the last ~15 years. I just started fairly young for the time.

For me, broadly, the reason to get a HHKB is that I like a small footprint keyboard with a full size main cluster and light but good switches. Anything that can bring the size down to "minimal hand movement" seems good to me. I bought the BTC 5100 for that reason: to see if it would work, and I very quickly came to the conclusion that an even smaller keyboard (meaning an extra modifier) with good switches would work much better for me than my current Model M.

[ch_123]

I mean, just "dissing" something for the sake of doing so is fairly silly. I'm sure you have a reason to think that is the case a lot of the time, as the HHKB owners' hostility to any "anti" (using the term very loosely here) HHKB sentiment is evident (which Im attributing to some heated debate I may have missed).

Again, the issue is that a huge part of the criticism comes from people who look at the picture and go "OMFG THAT KEY IS NOT LOCATED IN THE SAME PLACE AS IT IS LOCATED ON MY KEYBOARD".

The thing is, I said that sort of thing when I saw a US layout for the first time, now I use only US layout keyboards. When people look at things like the Model F, they say "Oh no, I could never use a single space backspace and an L-shaped enter", and the ones who get them usually say "This was not as much an issue as I thought it was".

The point is with layouts, you don't really know how good/not good it is until you've sat in front of one and made some meaningful attempts to use it.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Again, the issue is that a huge part of the criticism comes from people who look at the picture and go "OMFG THAT KEY IS NOT LOCATED IN THE SAME PLACE AS IT IS LOCATED ON MY KEYBOARD".

The thing is, I said that sort of thing when I saw a US layout for the first time, now I use only US layout keyboards. When people look at things like the Model F, they say "Oh no, I could never use a single space backspace and an L-shaped enter", and the ones who get them usually say "This was not as much an issue as I thought it was".

The point is with layouts, you don't really know how good/not good it is until you've sat in front of one and made some meaningful attempts to use it.

Very true. I can deal with quite a lot of moving around of keys. In fact, I prefer the EU Macbook's positioning of the ~ key right next to the left shift. I don't really like the Macbook's inverse-L enter key, though I did really like the EU Amiga's enter key.

It all depends. If you're stubborn and don't like even moderately alternative layouts, of course you're not going to like the HHKB. I don't even see why you'd want to mess with that layout. Just get a 10keyless board and be done with it.

[Rajagra]

I can state two things with certainty:

• The HHKB isn't perfect. (One justification below.*)
• The HHKB is the best keyboard in its form factor. (It's currently the only keyboard in its form factor.)

(*) Justification:
If you use the right (default) Fn key with the pinkie, you have to stretch the index finger to reach the Home key (on K.) Good for practicing jazz hands, bad for relaxed typing. And very much a departure from the home position.

Alternatively, if you use the left Fn key and keep your right hand in the home position, the index finger does nothing useful (slash, and other numeric pad keys *+- if you move left/down!) The arrows are all operated by the little finger, which has to stretch up/right/down for those respective keys. Not fast to move around documents. Not relaxed. Not perfect.

I can see both sides of the argument. I use my own layout via AutoHotkey, but would be happy to use the normal HHKB layout to get the benefit of the compact size when going to a different machine. For now it's the only game in town.

[hyperlinked]

The arrows are all operated by the little finger, which has to stretch up/right/down for those respective keys. Not fast to move around documents. Not relaxed. Not perfect.

I've mentioned this before in the past, but I'm real fond of the Matias Optimizer layout if for nothing else just the arrow keys and delete alone.

You hold down CTRL (mapped to caps lock) and the J,K,L,I keys become an inverted T arrow key set. Striking any key to the right of the I (up arrow) with CTRL held down is a forward delete. Just these few shortcuts alone save me lots of time while editing code.



Having the 10key numpad mapped to arrow keys when the CTRL is held down is also very very useful. It really speeds up spreadsheet work. You key your numbers and move to the cell you want. The 0 then becomes a remapped delete key so you can even correct your mistakes without moving your hand off of the 10key.