Switch springs

[phinix]

I keep seeing people swapping springs in switches - long, short, slow etc
Apart from weight, what difference do they make?

For example, for my end-game linears I'm planning to get new Cherry MX blacks - Hyperglides. Are they any better springs for those, or should I just lube+film them and that's it?

[Leslieann]

Slow tends to be more a combination of thicker grease/lighter spring.

Weight is more complicated than just a single number.
A spring rated at 62g compressed can start at 20, 40 or 60 and it can be linear uptick or progressive, i.e. it ramps up in pressure slow then fast and all of this effects actuation point pressure. It can even change depending on the switch it's in, for example a Cherry Linear can feel different than a Gateron Linear due to the leafs so the same spring in each may not react the same. However unless you do a massive change, the differences tend to be extremely subtle.

If you don't know what you're after, stick with stock springs, no sense in changing what works.
Unless they ping, Chery and Kailh are known for pinging springs, in which case just get whatever you can that is cheap, available and close to stock.

[phinix]

Slow tends to be more a combination of thicker grease/lighter spring.

Weight is more complicated than just a single number.
A spring rated at 62g compressed can start at 20, 40 or 60 and it can be linear uptick or progressive, i.e. it ramps up in pressure slow then fast and all of this effects actuation point pressure. It can even change depending on the switch it's in, for example a Cherry Linear can feel different than a Gateron Linear due to the leafs so the same spring in each may not react the same. However unless you do a massive change, the differences tend to be extremely subtle.

If you don't know what you're after, stick with stock springs, no sense in changing what works.
Unless they ping, Chery and Kailh are known for pinging springs, in which case just get whatever you can that is cheap, available and close to stock.

Thanks for explanation. Yeah, I was going for stock springs and just bag-lube them then bottom bits as well, hopefully this will fix pinging.

[Leslieann]

Bag lubing is not as good long term as hand lubing with thin grease.
Oil is supposed to flow not stay in place but it will help more with ping, so long as it remains on the spring, eventually it will just pool in the base of the switch (or exit if there is a hole).

If you are having ping issues, get some aftermarket springs, don't even bother with Cherry, a pingy spring is a pingy spring. Lube is only a bandage for ping.

[phinix]

Bag lubing is not as good long term as hand lubing with thin grease.
Oil is supposed to flow not stay in place but it will help more with ping, so long as it remains on the spring, eventually it will just pool in the base of the switch (or exit if there is a hole).

If you are having ping issues, get some aftermarket springs, don't even bother with Cherry, a pingy spring is a pingy spring. Lube is only a bandage for ping.

I was thinking about 105 oil after bag lubing, was wondering if it will slowly slide down to bottom of the switch - if that is the case, why nobody mention that and everybody do that?

for switch lubing I use mix of 1:1 105 and 205g0 - would you say this is something I would better to use for springs as well? like light cover with brush on each spring on whole length?
If picking aftermarket springs, which one would you suggest to make sure it would be heavy like cherry black? Specifically for Hyperglides blacks.
Sprit 78g?

[Leslieann]

I was thinking about 105 oil after bag lubing, was wondering if it will slowly slide down to bottom of the switch - if that is the case, why nobody mention that and everybody do that?

for switch lubing I use mix of 1:1 105 and 205g0 - would you say this is something I would better to use for springs as well? like light cover with brush on each spring on whole length?
If picking aftermarket springs, which one would you suggest to make sure it would be heavy like cherry black? Specifically for Hyperglides blacks.
Sprit 78g?

Few in this hobby know anything about lube and lubing and few bother to research much less check later, plus it's the internet, everyone just quotes someone else who they think is an authority. It's why spray lubing was a thing and why some people still recommend non plastic safe lubes.The truth is for our use it's not high friction, it's not high heat, it's not even a dirty environment, frankly we could use the crappiest plastic compatible lubes and do just fine provided it has the right viscosity, it's us adding lube in places missed at the factory that matters. So why are we using some industrial ultra high end food safe grease that not even the most competitive sports on the planet bother using? Note that what I just said is a somewhat unpopular opinion with some people here.

I use better springs and only grease the ends personally, greasing the whole thing works (as does plating), but using 105 and 205 is an expensive way to lube something you're really only lubing to dampen vibration rather than fighting friction.

For springs, I'm not sure what you can get there cheap but my recommendation is find the cheapest fastest shipped springs you can and get as close as you can. I don't think it's worth waiting weeks or months or paying exorbitant fees for them. If you do Sprit, be sure to check shipping prices, for me they want like $150 to ship. Clearly something is wrong with their cart. I use Novelkeys which I believe are just low end rebadged Sprit.

[Volny]

Whenever I get a new pack of switches, I usually will do a side by side comparison with a few different springs (I own about 4 different types of springs - all different weights and one or two different brands and lengths).

What I have found is that the difference is usually quite noticeable, and quite unpredictable. Some switches feel really good with one particular aftermarket spring, while others feel worse with everything but stock.

Sometimes it's just a particular weight that seems to work really well with a particular switch, while other times it seems to be more of a subjective feel thing than a weight thing. For example, sometimes a particular spring will introduce an annoying click at bottom out, while other times it'll eliminate some flaw (eg. gravelliness) that was in the stock switch.

I can rarely predict which combination I'll like most, and I've found that it's usually worth trying them all out.

[phinix]

Check out this ship here, have loads of different springs.
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/category/parts/springs_75/?page=3

This one here has different lengths - what does length do to switch - like feeling difference?
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/tx-springs-short-85g-100-pcs_3852/

[Leslieann]

What I have found is that the difference is usually quite noticeable, and quite unpredictable. Some switches feel really good with one particular aftermarket spring, while others feel worse with everything but stock.

According to TX, a 50-70g spring in Cherry will drop an average of 2.5g when put into a Gateron.
That's likely happening primarily due to length inside and that's going to change all the characteristics of the spring.

Check out this ship here, have loads of different springs.
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/category/parts/springs_75/?page=3

This one here has different lengths - what does length do to switch - like feeling difference?
https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/tx-springs-short-85g-100-pcs_3852/

"UK Orders below 135 GBP (155 EUR) are on hold until further notice."

Short and long changes the ramp.
A long spring will start stiffer than a short spring of the same weight because it's compressed more at the start. So a 62g 14mm could (just a guess) start at 30g and bottom at 62g while a 16mm spring will start at 40g and top out at 62g.

As Volny said and I was hinting at, it's not a path you want to go down unless you really have the urge or need to because it can really mess with a switch and can be unpredictable. You might be fine, you may end up buying 10 before finding what you want or send you down another hole with softer or stiffer springs. The one thing on your side is you're on linears, tactiles make it far more complicated.

Despite this, I still recommend doing it if your switches ping bad.
If you're concerned or fickle about how it feels, buy more than one set, I know TX offers variety packs.

[phinix]

Thanks. I'll see how the switches going to be first.