Best alternative to Apple Magic Keyboard for Windows (w/ Numeric Keypad)?

[Devil_Outside_Your_Door]

Hello!

SHORT STORY

I'm looking for something close to the Full Apple Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (i.e. quality build and short key travel) but "Windows native" to avoid the workaround of a keyboard remapping tool. Has to be wired.


LONG STORY

I was looking for a "laptop-like" full keyboard with numeric keypad and a UK English layout (for my Windows 10 laptop).

I bought an Apple Magic Keyboard two days ago but, even after remapping the keys through MS PowerToys Keyboard Manager, I'm not happy enough.

I'll list the issues I have in case it can be of interest to somebody else and/or there is a workaround

- Turning Apple's "Right Option" to "App/Menu key" doesn't work in Excel (where I need it most)

- Turning "Left Option" into "Left Windows" and "Left Command" into "Left Alt" works for a few things except for Win+R (I can't summon Run) and Alt+L (the keyboard shortcut for Reply All actually locks the screen as if it was Windows+L because of limitations in PowerToys)

- Ins cannot be mapped to the Apple Magic Keyboard equivalent due the fact that it's Fn

- There is an LED only for Caps Lock

- Some other stuff that the keyboard seems doing (I trust it's the use of PowerToys) like refusing to take Alt+Space Bar and then X to maximise a window (I had to repress and hold Alt and press X) or, seemingly, Windows (Option) and Alt (Command) switching back to the Apple way.


So my question is what other keyboards are there providing a good keyboard experience but fully compliant with the typical Windows layout with a numeric keypad. I've seen this HP Pavilion 300 or a Microsoft Surface Keyboard. Keyboards has to be wired or at leat wireable like the Apple one.

Essentially I'm looking for a full keyboard with keys with very little travel and that are not the ****tiest membrane stuff. I might consider a better remapping tool for the Magic Keyboard, but I sometimes switch to just using the laptop so that could be a problem (with its limits, PowerToys' Keyboard Manager can at least be switched off quickly).

Thanks for any advice.

[Leslieann]

Before you buy a new keyboard you should try Autohotkey, it will let you remap things.
There are apps to put caps lock and numlock indicators on the screen.

Second, what you're after is pretty slim pickings.
Even speed switches have more stroke than the Apple board, you pretty much need a scissor switch to get that feel. It can be done with MX but it's generally not easy and scissor switch options, especially good ones are few and far between with Logitech and Lenovo being about the only things worth buying. beware, Logitech has rubber dome (bad to meh), scissor (good) and mechanical keyboards (not bad), you need to verify before you buy.

The closest you will find in a tactile MX is going to be Jailhouse Blues using either o-ring mod or J-Spacers (out of stock/production) but that is a monsterous project, probably the singe most insane switch mod in the hobby. While it does achieve the right feel you're talking hours of tedious effort just in the switches, let alone anything else. Off the shelf, Bobas and Zeal Zilents will be your best bet, you'll want the 62g version of Zilents and since you can't really buy anything with those switches in it you will need a board and the best bang for the buck is going to be a barebones GMMK. It's a good board and actually one of the cheaper option, however by the time you build this board, even with cheap caps you're still going to go over $200, and that's going with cheap caps. Go with a higher end board or better caps and you can easily get over $400 or even hundreds more in a hurry. And hope it's in stock.

[Devil_Outside_Your_Door]

Thanks for your reply.

Before you buy a new keyboard you should try Autohotkey, it will let you remap things.
There are apps to put caps lock and numlock indicators on the screen.

Had a look at it. Seems very advanced. I'll give it 30 mins in the weekend, hopefully there are tutorials on YT or something. But I wouldn't want to spend time on this to then find out there is still the lag of the layer of the remapping application. I can return the Apple Magic Keyboard because in the end they sent the US layout and I wanted UK. I think I have 30 days to return.

Second, what you're after is pretty slim pickings.
Even speed switches have more stroke than the Apple board, you pretty much need a scissor switch to get that feel. It can be done with MX but it's generally not easy and scissor switch options, especially good ones are few and far between with Logitech and Lenovo being about the only things worth buying. beware, Logitech has rubber dome (bad to meh), scissor (good) and mechanical keyboards (not bad), you need to verify before you buy.

The closest you will find in a tactile MX is going to be Jailhouse Blues using either o-ring mod or J-Spacers (out of stock/production) but that is a monsterous project, probably the singe most insane switch mod in the hobby. While it does achieve the right feel you're talking hours of tedious effort just in the switches, let alone anything else. Off the shelf, Bobas and Zeal Zilents will be your best bet, you'll want the 62g version of Zilents and since you can't really buy anything with those switches in it you will need a board and the best bang for the buck is going to be a barebones GMMK. It's a good board and actually one of the cheaper option, however by the time you build this board, even with cheap caps you're still going to go over $200, and that's going with cheap caps. Go with a higher end board or better caps and you can easily get over $400 or even hundreds more in a hurry. And hope it's in stock.

Thanks for the detailed explanations. For the record, my journey into better keyboards started with a Ducky One 2 with Cherry MX Red Silent switched. A beautiful piece of hardware, no doubt, but all in all the travel of the keys is too much. I like "laptop-like" keyboards (forgive my ignorance of the proper term) because they are the best by test: shorter travel seems to mean faster and more precise typing for me and that's all I really care about.
I've even got 2.5 mm thick O-rings for the Ducky, hoping it could reduce travel. Much to my surprise, it just raises the key cap and the travel seems to be the same.

I don't have the time or skills for hardware mods. So, I really think that the right solution for me is a Windows enabled version of the Magic Keyboard.

Something like this, but ideally wired.

https://www.johnlewis.com/microsoft-surface-keyboard-grey/p3142400?sku=236771922&s_ppc=2dx92700063993681376&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6s2IBhCnARIsAP8RfAiWssSx71MUoubJHp6xN_yNazy8nxDtuepn6ICKyyxw5cTCbdESsOgaArBzEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or these

https://ao.com/product/jk1600gb1-cherry-kc-6000-slim-keyboard-silver-86122-264.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6s2IBhCnARIsAP8R***nMIE4MlOCcmKh-KoajAi_euXdy3oGawHfvGW9GMNEuaVWXC9qB28aAmRDEALw_wcB&&WT.z_PT=Computing&WT.z_AT=Keyboard&WT.z_MT=Search&WT.z_MAT=Cherry&WT.z_FT=Free%20Standing&WT.z_PC=JK-1600GB-1&WT.srch=1&WT.z_KW=JK-1600GB-1&WT.z_DT=c&WT.z_RTM=PLA&ef_id=Cj0KCQjw6s2IBhCnARIsAP8R***nMIE4MlOCcmKh-KoajAi_euXdy3oGawHfvGW9GMNEuaVWXC9qB28aAmRDEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!8149!3!325788365018!!!g!294682000766!&gclsrc=aw.ds&&&WT.z_CN=CE%20-%20Keyboards%20-%20Gen&WT.z_AG=Type%20Generic&WT.z_KW=Rest


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fujitsu-KB955-Keys-Retail-S26381-K955-L402/dp/B07P9HB42Z/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=Slim+Keyboard+-wireless&qid=1628710202&refinements=p_n_feature_fourteen_browse-bin%3A22490583031%7C22490584031%2Cp_72%3A419153031%2Cp_36%3A4000-20000&rnid=428432031&s=computers&sr=1-16

[Riverman]

There are plenty of cheap scissor switch keyboards out there that are more Windows compatible than the Magic Keyboard, but the build quality usually leaves something to be desired.  Have you looked at the Logitech K740?  It has a more or less standard PC keyboard layout, and has just about the nicest scissor switches ever used on a keyboard, plus it's wired and backlit.  Its keys have a slightly longer stroke than normal, but much less than any mechanical keyboard.  If you'd reconsider the wired requirement, the Logitech MX Keys keyboard feels extremely close to the Magic Keyboard, and has a standard PC keyboard layout.

[Leslieann]

There are plenty of cheap scissor switch keyboards out there that are more Windows compatible than the Magic Keyboard, but the build quality usually leaves something to be desired.

This is exactly the problem.
They are a needle in a haystack when you consider build quality and feel, nevermind layout, connection or anything else.

Thanks for the detailed explanations. For the record, my journey into better keyboards started with a Ducky One 2 with Cherry MX Red Silent switched. A beautiful piece of hardware, no doubt, but all in all the travel of the keys is too much. I like "laptop-like" keyboards (forgive my ignorance of the proper term) because they are the best by test: shorter travel seems to mean faster and more precise typing for me and that's all I really care about.
I've even got 2.5 mm thick O-rings for the Ducky, hoping it could reduce travel. Much to my surprise, it just raises the key cap and the travel seems to be the same.

I don't have the time or skills for hardware mods. So, I really think that the right solution for me is a Windows enabled version of the Magic Keyboard.

O-rings are only to dampen bottom out, the goal is to have minimal impact on stroke length.
Jailhouse Blues will cut the stroke, you're literally chopping out all of the pre-travel, the goal of was to replicate scissor switch feel. It works, but it's not for the faint hearted.

You can point out samples all you want, there is simply not a lot of good options.

The Fujitsu might be worth trying, it looks like it could be from the same assembly line as the older Logitech Illuminated (one of the best scissor boards ever made) but it also looks a bit like an old rubber dome model I seem to remember. It could be total garbage. The Cherry is a scissor, but it's not a Cherry product it's just their name on a cheap Chinese board (white label) to fill out their product line. The Microsoft is an option, they tend to make decent peripherals but being wireless if you game it's not a good choice. Bluetooth is rarely a great choice.