To those who make keyboards and to those we buy them from...

[spacecase]

(Rant)

What on are you doing?

Filco... you're touted as the greatest cherry brand in the world. It's arguable it's true... there are other good boards and other costar boards but just about everyone loves you. You don't have a single US supplier and only one that I know of in the UK. 350,000,000 people and what? Is there no market? It's not that Costar can't make enough and its not that people wont distribute your goods I see Rosewills, Das Keyboards, and CMs aplenty. People want mechanical keyboards. Its the thing now. I can only assume that your sales team is inept. Leopold, Ducky, Topre, Vortex, you're all in this boat too. Find some suppliers. You have a product that people want but it can take days of research to simply ferret your names out. Most people don't bother and they buy something else.

EK... It drives me crazy that you're the only US supplier of Topre keyboards and the only decent supplier of them that I know of. Keyboard CO in the UK doesn't count because the conversion rate is so bad. At least they aren't as obvious about their price gouging. Update you're pictures. You dont sell Filco anymore and it looks half-ass.

Keyboard Co. I've had an easy time with your customer service but I can't send people to your website its just plain awful. If you're on here send me a P.M. I know some great web teams. EK you're pretty bad too but not this bad. Everyone just look at Newegg. There are reasons they're big and you're not and their website is one of those reasons(advertising and product diversity are others but you need to start somewhere).

MechanicalKeyboards.com I'd be lying if I said your website was a joy to use but at least you're going in the right direction so kudos.

Unicomp. there is a special place in hell reserved for you. You're quality control is terrible. Your materials are aweful. You're website is worse than the keyboard company's and nobody knows you exist apart from a tiny few who love you're unique key feel. Get some investment capital. Clean up your product lineup. Fix your moulds. Research some modern plastics. Build a good website... and when you do be sure to add good descriptions of what you're selling heck of everything you're selling. Made in USA my rear end I'd sooner have a made in china dell board. It would be of better quality.

Advertising. This goes for everyone. You can have the best product in the world but if nobody knows about it or why they absolutely must have it you will not do well. This has been proven time and again in the game industry and its true for you. Anyone ever heard of STAX on here? The've been around since 1952. Thats 60 years. They're the Topre of Headphones and they barely exist. Why? They can't market to save their lives. They have one US supplier and they're tough to deal with.

You are not special. Remember that. Ok Topre you're a little special just because you're so unique. There are new players in this market using the same switches and the same OEM's. Those new brands, Rosewill, Razer, CM, SteelSeries, are cheaper, more available, and have more mindshare than you do. Stop playing in the little league before we forget your names. Already people are recommending the CM Quickfire Pro over Filco TKL and Leopold. They're easier to find, cheaper, they have more switch options and the're just as good.

(/Rant)

[longweight]

Nothing wrong with keyboardco's website, it is simple and easy to use.


EK are the exclusive Topre distributor in the US, please prove how they are price gouging.


I am sure that Filco are well aware of the US market and must be happy with the current distribution model.

[spacecase]

They have one topre for sale for $239 right now and two others for $350. Nothing special about them other than weight variations and silencing.

I'm not going to argue about the keyboard Co's website.

Filco Must be.

[longweight]

What is wrong with their website? Is it hard to use? Can you not find the keyboards? It might be basic but so what?


Topre boards are expensive, please show how much cheaper you can get them.

[precarious]

newegg's web site is pretty terrible nowadays, 5000000000 different menu / target areas and no way to distinguish between them, it used to be simple and straightforward

i think the problem with keyboardco's web site is that it's difficult for someone to use who has no idea what they're looking for

[spacecase]

Thats the point. You cant get Topres elsewhere. The physical differences are very small on the ones they're selling. Even color variations are commanding large premiums. And when I say variations I mean white vs white and grey. I love Topre, I'll even pay the price they ask but seriously they are the only supplier in the US so they can ask whatever they want and they do. This is more Topre's fault then theirs.

1.On initial impression I don't trust the keyboard Co's website. It feels cheap and the'yre asking a lot of money for simple items. As an enthusiast I know they're ok because I've heard about them and I know their prices are about right but as a casual user I would wonder and would likely just go somewhere else.
2. Time to decide. I need to run through their entire list to make sure I haven't missed anything. That means looking if only briefly at the finnish boards, the dutch boards, the swedish boards, the mice, and the vaguely named Miscellaneous Keyboards & Accessories section. This is fine if you're customer is determined but I'm talking about trying to get major sales. A sort would be nice. "Just english" or "I'd like only ergonomic layouts please!"
3.Pictures! If I want to see pictures I have to click on every single thing I'm interested in. This takes a lot of time and feels very clunky. Filco facias? That took me a bit to look into. Anywhere else and I'd have had a good idea about all five or six kinds in just a glance. 

[spacecase]

newegg's web site is pretty terrible nowadays, 5000000000 different menu / target areas and no way to distinguish between them, it used to be simple and straightforward

i think the problem with keyboardco's web site is that it's difficult for someone to use who has no idea what they're looking for

I'll give you that they aren't perfect but they do a good job with the obscene number of products they sell and only rarely do I have any difficulty finding something quickly even if I dont really know what I'm looking for. Serious question.. how you would change them?

[spacecase]

I want to be clear. I'm glad that we have these companies. I've bought things from each and every one. This is simply a pet peeve of mine. They all have something to great to offer... even Unicomp with their unique switch design but if I grabbed a random person in a crowd at Blizzcon or E3 I doubt that they would recognize a single name on my list because their sales and advertising departments are doing such a poor job of even getting their names out there. 

[Turbo Slaab]

i think the problem with keyboardco's web site is that it's difficult for someone to use who has no idea what they're looking for

Bingo. I like to browse and lurk. But clicking on every single item just to see a picture is way too tedious.

To the OP: I agree 100%.

[precarious]

newegg's web site is pretty terrible nowadays, 5000000000 different menu / target areas and no way to distinguish between them, it used to be simple and straightforward

i think the problem with keyboardco's web site is that it's difficult for someone to use who has no idea what they're looking for

I'll give you that they aren't perfect but they do a good job with the obscene number of products they sell and only rarely do I have any difficulty finding something quickly even if I dont really know what I'm looking for. Serious question.. how you would change them?

i don't have any issues using newegg's web site of course, but when you have that many different areas to look at on a single page, you're just dissuading normal people from using your web page because they literally have no idea what they're looking at.  people go to web sites for reasons:  identify what those reasons are, and guide them elegantly without confusion.  that page is just cobbled together.  i mean, i wanted to put a little more effort into that image, but when i realized it would literally take hours to break it down, f' that and f' that web site.

[spacecase]

My favorite thing about newegg is the way that I can break down the sorting once im in a category. There is so much stuff on that site that it could easily overwhelm a user. I agree with you on further review it is more than a little cluttered and the only bit on that page that actually matters is the shop all stores bar and everything under it. Oh the search bar too of course. But back to their search setup. Its wonderful for the person who isn't dead set on something.

[spacecase]

We're getting a bit off topic on Newegg. My parents know what that is and I don't think they could find the internet with a compass and an indian guide. They also have both searching AND sorting.

[bardomudo]

I gotta say I agree with pretty much everything you said, spacecase, specially regarding the websites.

Anyone with a bare understanding of web design knows how awful those are. Not only regarding aesthetics purely, but also for user experience, since both are quite tied together. When I was 12 in the late 90's I literally could make better websites than most of those, and I have never been good in web design.

[hoggy]

Could be wrong, but I guess keyboard co's website is set up to favour the 'purchasing department' style of customer.  It's easy to forget that enthusiasts like us aren't their main source of income.   Doesn't mean I like it, though.

[mashby]

Speaking from the standpoint of someone who is new to the mechanical keyboard community, I have to agree with a lot of what Spacecase said. I know you were coming from a place of frustration, but you had me laughing in agreement.  )

For those unwilling to take the deep dive into nerding out on keyboards, the marketplace is a disaster. Vendor sites that consist of nothing but pictures on a Facebook page, KeyboardCo's price pile of a web site are but two examples. If you're new, like me, then your only option is to read the Mechanical Keyboard Guide and crawl through the forums to sift for clues.

MechanicalKeyboards.com is the best site out there for shopping and I found it to be a great resource, but there are still plenty of opportunities out there for vendors and resellers alike to simplify this process and, in turn, generate more profit.

[Magnusian]

Just recently Unicomp sent out their yearly customer survey. Every time I get one I make sure to stress that they need to do a better job on quality control and getting their product out to retailers. I know they used to complain they can't compete in today's keyboard market with all of the mega el-cheapo RD boards, but they can definitely compete with other mechanicals at their present price point. There's no reason they can't do a little more fit and polish on something like say the Ultra Classic and have it compete in a retail setting. I also make note of the fact the thinner/more brittle plastic they use for the shells needs to be improved, both of my Customizer 104s have broken posts that are supposed to help locate the backing plate. It really feels like their product quality has suffered as a result of the company having to cut costs just to stay afloat. Another thing that bothers me is their propensity to go with single-piece keys, which can make customization a bit of a chore.

As for their website, the current one is leaps and bounds better than the old one, but it feels like yet another one of those kind of sites where they do the initial setup, promise stuff, and then forget it exists. Their keyboard configuration "tool" isn't really a tool at all.

I'd also like to see more spare/replacement parts for older Ms.

They could benefit greatly from a marketing person who has a clue.

[fohat.digs]

You guys are making me feel  SO  LUCKY !

Believe me, I have infinite appreciation for the fact that I have a very good Micro Center store located a mere 20 minutes from my house.

I have bought ALL of my new computer supplies (except keyboards, of course) there for probably 15 years. They have great stock, extremely knowledgeable and helpful employees (you learn who the good ones are) and their return policy is outstanding.

I have never felt the need to mail-order from them, but I cannot help but believe that they are equally good on that front.

[spacecase]

Haha Fohat Thats my point! Microcenter doesn't stock any of these boards. These boards that are loved by the hardcore community. The people who REALLY know what is what are the people right here and these are the people who are willing to jump through the hoops to get that last 5% everyone else is just going to go to Microcenter or Fry's or Bestbuy or whatever else is easy.

[samwisekoi]

I agree with the OP 100% -- on the topics he covered.  I have also purchased from all or nearly all of those websites and companies, and will continue to do so, but for sure I always try Newegg first.

Having said that, let's look at the other side -- you know, the other side that is always there!

1.  If Filco, Topre and Leopold are selling as much as they can make -- or can afford to make -- then there is no reason for them to increase demand or make sales easier.  None.  And very definitely no reason to introduce things like competition that could bring down margins for them or their channel partners.

2.  Rosewill, CM, etc. are better at marketing and selling -- because they cannot sell everything they can afford to make!  I just bought a Rosewill for $25 and a CM for $52.  Why?  Because they had over-built and over-stocked.

So the vendors and keyboards we love have no incentive to become more like the mass market mechanical keyboard suppliers.  And quite a bit of incentive to stay as they are now.

I wish they would all get better and easier to work with, but I couldn't tell them what is in it for them.  Just what is in it for us.

As to Unicomp. they could absolutely drop their $79 mechanical keyboard onto Newegg and compete.  As to all of the rest of their woes, it looks like inertia to me.  I cannot come up with any defense for their practices.  I do hope they get better, if for no other reason than so they stay alive as long as Model M keyboards do.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[missalaire]

Filco... you're touted as the greatest cherry brand in the world. It's arguable it's true... there are other good boards and other costar boards but just about everyone loves you. You don't have a single US supplier and only one that I know of in the UK. 350,000,000 people and what? Is there no market? It's not that Costar can't make enough and its not that people wont distribute your goods I see Rosewills, Das Keyboards, and CMs aplenty. People want mechanical keyboards. Its the thing now. I can only assume that your sales team is inept. Leopold, Ducky, Topre, Vortex, you're all in this boat too. Find some suppliers. You have a product that people want but it can take days of research to simply ferret your names out. Most people don't bother and they buy something else.

It definitely would be nice if there was a US distributor for Filco, but it isn't so bad anymore since Ncix.ca (Canadian Filco distributor) ships internationally. It's cheaper and more convenient than going through TheKeyboardCo and what you're paying extra in international shipping is basically what you'd be paying if you were taxed and didn't have free shipping.

[cytoSiN]

Good rant.  Agreed with you and the majority of the other posters, and Sam makes a great point about incentives.

The main point underlying your rant, however, is that "People want mechanical keyboards. Its the thing now." I agree, but that's a relatively recent phenomenon...this past year has seen a HUGE increase in the number of people interested in mechanical keyboards, especially in the US.  While the CMs and Rosewills and other companies with decent marketing (and an established US presence) are able to react quickly to those kinds of trends, the Filcos and others without decent marketing (and without established US presence) are slower to react.  If they don't make any changes this year, well, then maybe they just don't care.  But I'd be surprised if they didn't make some effort to capitalize off of the increased attention.

[spacecase]

My point is that now that its the thing to have this market has attracted the attention of giants. These giants have access to everything most of the niche vendors have including their OEM's and in addition they are able to sell effectively at a lower cost. At some point we're going to ask why bother with Filco/other niche vendor? We're just going to buy a nearly identical keyboard at half the price, it'll be easy to get ahold of, and we'll get shiny packaging. My frustration is in seeing an established company or in this case companies that could make changes now before its too late failing to do so in such obvious ways. Update your websites, find more distribution channels, advertise! We will not be worse off as the consumers because of this new influx of manufacturers. We are already benefitting but these companies will fall to irrelevancy and they can prevent if they start working now. If they had started years ago they could have been the ones bringing back mechanical keyboards instead of Razer and their ilk but they missed the mark. Come on guys get your acts together!

[razorsharpgears]

This is a rather uncommon hobby, not a wide-spread hobby. Don't expect these companies to cater to your every need just because the "layout" makes you uncomfortable. Newegg is big not because of its site design, or even its advertising. Newegg is popular because of the low prices and fair deals it often provides.

[mashby]

This is a rather uncommon hobby, not a wide-spread hobby. Don't expect these companies to cater to your every need just because the "layout" makes you uncomfortable. Newegg is big not because of its site design, or even its advertising. Newegg is popular because of the low prices and fair deals it often provides.

That's true, but I think one of the factors that limits this market to hobbyists is the fact that the information is so hard to find/discern.

From my perspective (Mac users, writers, non-gamers), when I see posts like the one that Shawn Blanc did back in September, there was a crush of interest in mechanical keyboards. What did I see most buy? The DasKeyboard. Why? Because it was the easiest to find and purchase.  Unless you're a hobbyist, you're not going to go into the weeds to hunt out these other options.

Hell, if I hadn't punched my Apple BT keyboard, I never would have known that there were compact mechanical keyboards and wouldn't even be here.

[razorsharpgears]

I guess you are right in that sense, and it wouldn't hurt the companies any to make things a little easier on the customer-side.

[cytoSiN]

To be honest, I just want the best/highest quality parts at the lowest possible price.  If that means that CM and others get involved and destroy Filco and Topre and whoever else we currently love, so be it.  Do I want that to happen to those companies?  No.  But if they won't do what the OP suggests (as they should, of course), then I hope someone else does.  The sad part is that the OEMs, especially Costar, realize they have a good thing going here, which is why they're supplying CM et al.  The fact that Filco and the other brands that use Costar can't see the writing on the wall is, frankly, quite sad.

[lazerpointer]

I like how they don't have an image. For the "High Visibility" keyboard. LOL

[Noko]

Filco... you're touted as the greatest cherry brand in the world. It's arguable it's true... there are other good boards and other costar boards but just about everyone loves you. You don't have a single US supplier and only one that I know of in the UK. 350,000,000 people and what? Is there no market? It's not that Costar can't make enough and its not that people wont distribute your goods I see Rosewills, Das Keyboards, and CMs aplenty. People want mechanical keyboards. Its the thing now. I can only assume that your sales team is inept. Leopold, Ducky, Topre, Vortex, you're all in this boat too. Find some suppliers. You have a product that people want but it can take days of research to simply ferret your names out. Most people don't bother and they buy something else.

It definitely would be nice if there was a US distributor for Filco, but it isn't so bad anymore since Ncix.ca (Canadian Filco distributor) ships internationally. It's cheaper and more convenient than going through TheKeyboardCo and what you're paying extra in international shipping is basically what you'd be paying if you were taxed and didn't have free shipping.

This is a big deal (at least for me).  I have bought from NCIX for many years and the fact that they started carrying Filcos was the reason I finally shelled out for one.  I would recommend them to anyone.

One of the few times Canada has better vendor options than the US!  They do have a US store page as well, though.

[cytoSiN]

FWIW, keyboardco sells Filcos on US Amazon, but I'd still prefer if they just cleaned up their own website and set up a US presence that would allow them to distribute here more easily.  For example.  Another.  And one more for good measure.

[precarious]

make non-awful web site, market GH60 properly, acquire $$$$$$$$$

[linuxid10t]

(Rant)

What on are you doing?

Filco... you're touted as the greatest cherry brand in the world. It's arguable it's true... there are other good boards and other costar boards but just about everyone loves you. You don't have a single US supplier and only one that I know of in the UK. 350,000,000 people and what? Is there no market? It's not that Costar can't make enough and its not that people wont distribute your goods I see Rosewills, Das Keyboards, and CMs aplenty. People want mechanical keyboards. Its the thing now. I can only assume that your sales team is inept. Leopold, Ducky, Topre, Vortex, you're all in this boat too. Find some suppliers. You have a product that people want but it can take days of research to simply ferret your names out. Most people don't bother and they buy something else.

EK... It drives me crazy that you're the only US supplier of Topre keyboards and the only decent supplier of them that I know of. Keyboard CO in the UK doesn't count because the conversion rate is so bad. At least they aren't as obvious about their price gouging. Update you're pictures. You dont sell Filco anymore and it looks half-ass.

Keyboard Co. I've had an easy time with your customer service but I can't send people to your website its just plain awful. If you're on here send me a P.M. I know some great web teams. EK you're pretty bad too but not this bad. Everyone just look at Newegg. There are reasons they're big and you're not and their website is one of those reasons(advertising and product diversity are others but you need to start somewhere).

MechanicalKeyboards.com I'd be lying if I said your website was a joy to use but at least you're going in the right direction so kudos.

Unicomp. there is a special place in hell reserved for you. You're quality control is terrible. Your materials are aweful. You're website is worse than the keyboard company's and nobody knows you exist apart from a tiny few who love you're unique key feel. Get some investment capital. Clean up your product lineup. Fix your moulds. Research some modern plastics. Build a good website... and when you do be sure to add good descriptions of what you're selling heck of everything you're selling. Made in USA my rear end I'd sooner have a made in china dell board. It would be of better quality.

Advertising. This goes for everyone. You can have the best product in the world but if nobody knows about it or why they absolutely must have it you will not do well. This has been proven time and again in the game industry and its true for you. Anyone ever heard of STAX on here? The've been around since 1952. Thats 60 years. They're the Topre of Headphones and they barely exist. Why? They can't market to save their lives. They have one US supplier and they're tough to deal with.

You are not special. Remember that. Ok Topre you're a little special just because you're so unique. There are new players in this market using the same switches and the same OEM's. Those new brands, Rosewill, Razer, CM, SteelSeries, are cheaper, more available, and have more mindshare than you do. Stop playing in the little league before we forget your names. Already people are recommending the CM Quickfire Pro over Filco TKL and Leopold. They're easier to find, cheaper, they have more switch options and the're just as good.

(/Rant)

STAX FTW!

[precarious]

STAX FTW!

warble wablre meep mepmew bwal bwela kmeo eb pab lba baklr adb pabe abdkl blblorlfo

[linuxid10t]

STAX FTW!

warble wablre meep mepmew bwal bwela kmeo eb pab lba baklr adb pabe abdkl blblorlfo

It is a Japanese brand which makes electrostatic headphones.  I had a Stax SR-Lambda Pro for several months.  Also, Head-Fi and Geekhack are teaming up on my wallet... 

[Hak Foo]

. Newegg is big not because of its site design, or even its advertising. Newegg is popular because of the low prices and fair deals it often provides.

But also because they provide decent tools.  They're selling items which require a lot of explanation and long decision processes.  For example, there were like 35 different mainboards with the chipset I chose, and it took me several days to decide which one to pick.  If they had gone the "industrial procurement department" route and just listed model numbers alone, I'd probably still be deciding, having to cross-reference with vendor websites.

Why should keyboards be any different?  I'd want a simple way to filter out "all 104+ boards with blue switches, sort by price."  If you can't give it to me, there's a fair chance someone else with a better back-end can.

[uJalled]

Truthfully, I was getting ready to buy myself a Das Ultimate. Why? Because I could go to Google, type in "mechanical keyboard", and Das would come up in the top search results. Click on it: 1. It had a clean webpage. 2. Looked like a respectable company. 3. Description of the product was outstanding and several high quality photos were included. 4. Everything was simplified for the average consumer to understand. When I first went to KeyboardCo's website, honestly, I was very skeptical because it did not look as professional as Das. If I wasn't the kind of shopper I am (I always research before I buy), I would have gone for a Das over a Filco, simply because it appeared more reputable.