Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?

[precarious]

Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.

Yes, but only up to a point. After that, it's been abstracted out to such a degree that it doesn't even make any sense anymore.

I never once said "all change is good", and that wasn't my argument. I said that Windows is due for a change. My point is that computing is in it's infancy, and it's shortsighted to think that any particular paradigm that we have come up with is the "best" in such a short time.

That means we need to try out many different ways of doing things. It may end up that a start button/menu is indeed the best paradigm. But I wouldn't feel comfortable coming to that conclusion until a larger set of alternatives had been attempted.

I believe that an Earth free from all human life could be a worthwhile pursuit.  Let's go ahead and test this one out, too!

Saying that something is due for a change without qualification is the same as suggesting that all change is good.  I have no idea why you cannot see this, especially since you are referring to a "rationally defensible basis."

I think you have conflated rationality with your own irrational emotional attachment to something you can't necessarily explain.  It's okay, you're just an organism existing in relation to your environment; it's difficult to come to terms with this.

The reason a Start Menu is superior, or the concept thereof, is because it represents a hierarchy.  A hierarchy can be sorted by function, or whatever.  If you wanted to do that with an unsightly slathering of tiles, it would necessarily require more space to accomplish, and is thus inferior.

[Malphas]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be of the opinion that the Start Menu is superior, but all telemetry indicates the opposite. a) Barely anyone uses the Start Menu anymore (again as indicated by Microsoft telemetry, not pulled out of my ass), b) it takes less clicks/time to get things done in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7

I don't see how you equate requiring more space to be inferior, that's what screen real estate is for, not taking advantage of larger display resolutions and using a UI designed when average screens were 800x600 is ridiculous and inefficient.

Windows 8's UI is still a mess for desktops (mainly due to inconsistencies and touchscreen compromises), but it's a step towards something superior than the traditional Start Menu and Desktop. The Start Screen displays much more information, removing the need to even launch programs in some instances, launching programs can be done more quickly using the Start Button, typing the first few letters of the application you want to use and hitting Enter, removing the need to even take your hand away from the keyboard to the mouse (something you'd think people on a keyboard enthusiast forum would welcome), rather than navigate a ponderous list of poorly organised lists and folders (e.g. the Start Menu).

[quickcrx702]

Windows 8 really isn't that bad once you get used to it.  It is obviously more useful on a tablet, but is only a minor annoyance to use on a desktop.  If you want to bash on the UI, I would bash Windows 8's big brother, Server 2012, which shares the interface and is complete stupidity.  Why Microsoft would make a SERVER OS look like a tablet interface is just beyond me, and not having a start menu when you are remotely connected(who the F hooks up a monitor/keyboard to a server?) is pretty annoying.  When you press the windows key in certain remote applications, it sends it to your desktop as well as the remote desktop, so it gets annoying.  Same thing with having to drag your mouse to the corner, there isn't a hard boundary like on your actual desktop, and you end up dragging the mouse outside of the remote window. 

[davkol]

Actually, server UI (both CLI and GUI) has never been really usable in MS Windows. Have I mentioned the DNS wizard that still causes me nighmares?

[quickcrx702]

I never really had any issues with prior versions of Windows server OS.  Not only did they F up the UI, but now there is all sorts of stupid stuff that you have to do that was previously unneeded.  Example, to set the RDS server to per user or per computer, you have to change the setting in Group policy, not in the TS/RDS admin utility where it has always been done in the past.  It's stupid.

[baldgye]

launching programs can be done more quickly using the Start Button, typing the first few letters of the application you want to use and hitting Enter

This can be done in Win7 (and is how I use it)... the problem with Win8 is how it sorts its app's and puts a priority on metro apps and metro settings menus for no obvious reason. Giving the start menu more functionality is a good thing, but the Start menu in Win8 isn't designed to work on a desktop and simply dsnt work.
The reason alot of people pin stuff to the task bar (imo) is because MS is horrible at teaching users how to use there OS and simply assume people know that you can winkey+type to search for literally anything... the number of people I come across looking in sub menu's on the start button for a program they are looking for...

[daerid]

I know it's old, but it's a fun argument and the last response was full of holes so I'll bite

I believe that an Earth free from all human life could be a worthwhile pursuit.  Let's go ahead and test this one out, too!

Strawman.
I can't believe you just equated trying out a new UI paradigm with human specicide, because that is certainly not what I was doing.

Saying that something is due for a change without qualification is the same as suggesting that all change is good.

Strawman/Slippery Slope.
No, no it's not. It was said in a specific context. I didn't say "something" or "anything", but "Microsoft Windows". I was specific.

I have no idea why you cannot see this, especially since you are referring to a "rationally defensible basis."

Ad Hominem/Personal Incredulity.
You brought up "rationally defensible", I was just attempting to respond in kind.

I think you have conflated rationality with your own irrational emotional attachment to something you can't necessarily explain.  It's okay, you're just an organism existing in relation to your environment; it's difficult to come to terms with this.

Ad Hominem.
Resorting to personal attacks doesn't really help your argument here. I'd be happy to discuss this calmly and rationally, but I have no interest in debating this on a personal level.

The reason a Start Menu is superior, or the concept thereof, is because it represents a hierarchy.

No fallacy here, just pure opinion (except the part about the Start Menu being a hierarchy, that's technically true).

A hierarchy can be sorted by function, or whatever.

Many other things can be sorted by function, not just hierarchies. A grid of tiles can be sorted by function as well. Indeed, Windows 8's start tiles generally are arranged by function (Programs/Settings/Files).

If you wanted to do that with an unsightly slathering of tiles, it would necessarily require more space to accomplish, and is thus inferior.

It wouldn't necessarily require more space. It just happens to take up more space in Windows 8 than the start menu in Windows 7 did. Calling that inferior though is personal opinion. Which you are entitled to, as I am to hold the opposite opinion.

[Internetlad]

didn't realize this thread got ressurected.

Either way i'm still using Win8 and it's still going strong. Biggest valid complaints i've heard are why it opens photos / music / videos in the apps, which can all be sidestepped by "Always open with" and opening them with the photo viewer or media player classic, and why the shut down button is hidden away (I've heard this is because people tend not to shut their computers down anymore, they either close a laptop and it goes to sleep/hibernates or leave a desktop and it goes to sleep/hibernates.)

as far as missing the start menu, I don't. You can reach most any program you want with the search by tapping the winkey and typing the first 3 letters of the program which will bring it up (or if not it because the name is similar, then in the list)

Other than that, stability wise, it's as stable and efficient as windows 7, if not more so. I have no issues with it.

[DamienG]

as far as missing the start menu, I don't. You can reach most any program you want with the search by tapping the winkey and typing the first 3 letters of the program which will bring it up (or if not it because the name is similar, then in the list)

Yeah I don't get that either. On previous versions of Windows I hit the Windows key or clicked bottom left of my screen and got a small start menu.

Now I get one that's full-screen with better keyboard navigation and app icons that can display info.

[)amien

[Ninjerk]

I hated the interface right away. Everyone who complains about Windows 8 is thrown off by them. Yeah, you can get used to them, but I'd rather they have been optional.

So just about everyone I know using Windows 8 loaded ClassicShell. Other than that, not bad. Pretty nice start up time.

[DamienG]

The reality is people don't like change (unless the one before was truly awful).

Same thing happens every time Facebook do a big UI update - people complain they hate the new, loved the old. Unlike Windows 8 there's no hack to get the old one back so people actually use it, come to like it. Then start all over again... the amusing thing being now that the old one they love the next time round was the new one they hated.

I went with the Windows 8 UI, gave it a chance now love it.

I didn't like the GMail priority inbox and switched it back immediately. About a year later I gave it a chance, now quite like it.

Chrome on Windows menu spacing felt crazy on a recent build and I tried to figure out how to change it back. Couldn't. A couple of weeks later and I'm completely used to it.

Not always progress though. Moved to Android from Windows Phone and the WP start menu really is a lot better than the stock Android 4.2 launcher. The latter may be more customizable but I spend more time flicking through little icons to try and find something out. Reminds me of my iPhone 3G.

[)amien

[cytoSiN]

[tricheboars]

i use windows 8 at home on my gaming rig and i have a test box with windows 8 i use at work. i love it. frankly if people cant figure out the UI or complain about it i label them as "stupid" rather than the OS. It took me 3 minutes to get use to and the benefits greatly outweigh any cons for gaming.

lol dont even get me started when i hear my coworkers complain about it. ****ing luddites need to learn how to evolve. you can be a tech and server tech and be good at your job, but to not expect OS evolution during your career is ****ing retarded. and fighting OS evolution is even dumber.  it is life. techs need to quickly adapt technology and teach others, it is what we are supposed to do. that is why we are paid. to refuse to use something new instantly tarnishes your reputation to me.

 basically this whole thing reminds me of the release of windows 95. everyone complained about the new UI of windows.  history repeats itself and all those techs who talked **** in '95 ate their words. looks like the second entree is ready...

[daerid]

Yup. Also don't forget the wailing and crying that happened when XP came out.

The main problem now is not that Windows has changed it's UI, it's that Mac has increased in consumer mind-share to the point where it's a viable alternative in people's minds. Which was never the case before, so back in the '95 and XP days, people grumbled, but didn't have any alternative so they didn't ***** as loudly because there was nothing to point to and say "see? They got it right". The landscape is incredibly different nowadays (hell, even Ubuntu is a viable desktop OS these days).

[iAmAhab]

Somebody here should know this. How the **** do you turn of a computer running win 8?

[SeriouSSpotS]

I don't mind windows 8, I wouldn't use it as a desktop though I use it on a laptop.

[DamienG]

Move the mouse to the bottom right or press Windows-C to get the standard system charms.

Hit settings, power, shutdown.

[)amien

[TheQsanity]

'Cause they don't have touchscreens.

[iAmAhab]

Move the mouse to the bottom right or press Windows-C to get the standard system charms.

Hit settings, power, shutdown.

[)amien

Ah, thats about as intuitive as the other solution i finally found; log out and finally there is a shutdown button.
This is but one of the reasons I bloody despise windows 8.

[DamienG]

The charms menu is where all the system-wide stuff is for windows 8.

It has a settings option as that's where all the system, settings, personalization stuff is.

At the bottom it has power. Alongside volume, network and brightness.

It's perfectly logical. Just not what you're used to.

[IvanIvanovich]

Shutdown, easiest way for me is Alt+F4 when at the desktop brings up the shutdown dialog.
I am over most of my hate now, the only thing that still pisses me off is the metro apps that go full screen when I want to be multitasking. Still need to bother to change program defaults to alternates to get rid of that last annoyance. All the UI things that pissed me off I have figured out how to change by now with resource hacking. Also the small changes they made with 8.1 I find vastly superior to 8. I will probably wait for 8.1 to go RTM before I switch from 7 on my main PC though.

[quickcrx702]

Somebody here should know this. How the **** do you turn of a computer running win 8?

LOL that's what I wondered at first.  Drag your mouse to one of the right corners, and there is a way to do if from there.  However, I ended up doing start->cmd-> "shutdown /s /f /t 1" because that's how I reboot remote computers(but I use the /r instead of /s switch for remote reboots).  LOL I've had notepad or other stupid stuff kill remote reboots done via the start menu because they didn't close, and I would have to call someone on site to close some stupid programs.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes that is annoying, which is why I do it the way I said as the PC I have with 8.1 is my home server which I do everything with via RDP and it never ****s up.

[quickcrx702]

(hell, even Ubuntu is a viable desktop OS these days).

LOL.  I used to hate Ubuntu, because I preferred power distros like Arch or Gentoo, but I'm too busy these days to care about editing config files or changing compile options.  Ubuntu is pretty much the Windows of the Linux world, and it's starting to grow on me.  OSX is for people that hate windows, but aren't able to learn linux.  Linux is for people who hate Windows, but are more tech savvy.  Honestly I didn't find Windows 8 too bad, but Server 2012 made me absolutely hate the interface.  Again, why Microsoft would design a SERVER OS optimized for a touch screen is just beyond me, especially when almost NOBODY accesses a server with a keyboard and mouse, and everyone uses a RDP client with no hard screen boundaries.  It's just silly.

[Hak Foo]

Windows 8 is the first version I've had grief with activation.

I flashed my BIOS and it is now convinced it's on a different machine.  Vista and 7 never balked on this.  While it's possible the flash was unusual (MSI switched from an AMI to an Award BIOS or vice-versa mid-way through this board's life), it should still be able to find plenty of "I'm on the same machine" hints.

[Zustiur]

I realize this is from pages ago, but I just had to respond...

I think to an average user the only difference would be that the traditional start menu is missing. But...is it really that bad? Do you really use it THAT often to find a program you installed or something?

YES. Yes I do.

I haven't got 8 purely because my upgrade cycle isn't due for a new OS. However, having tinkered with it on my brother's laptop, I can pretty safely say that the lack of win7 style start menu would drive me bats... At least until I learn all the exe names for programs to use with winkey+r like I used to do in XP... you know, before win 7 gave me a better solution. *sigh*

[TheProfosist]

I realize this is from pages ago, but I just had to respond...

I think to an average user the only difference would be that the traditional start menu is missing. But...is it really that bad? Do you really use it THAT often to find a program you installed or something?

YES. Yes I do.

I haven't got 8 purely because my upgrade cycle isn't due for a new OS. However, having tinkered with it on my brother's laptop, I can pretty safely say that the lack of win7 style start menu would drive me bats... At least until I learn all the exe names for programs to use with winkey+r like I used to do in XP... you know, before win 7 gave me a better solution. *sigh*

just set the start screen to bring up All Apps/Programs instead this should be an option in 8.1 if not already in 8. Or if you really need the start menu get something like Start8. Also how many programs do you use on a regular basis that arnt pinned to the taskbar or a shortcut on the desktop?

[vatin]

To all whiners about metro/modern interface. Install the free Classic Shell app and lock your system down to desktop interface only. Nuff said. It'll give you the start menu and all that.