Why is there a lack of 75% boards?

[Fragil1ty]

I know this topic has probably been discussed to death, but heh, let's go over it again anyway.

I'm a massive lover of the 75% board hence my almost 2 year long use of the Noppoo choc mini, but why is there a complete lack of choices? I've either got the Noppoo choc mini to go with or the Keycool 84 and that's about it.

I don't like to use 60% boards because I need to have the F1 keys accessible (directly and not through some form of a variant, e.g. fn + 1) and I need to have my arrow keys directly accessible also.

Do people not care for the 75% boards etc? as there seems to be like I said, a complete lack of them out there.

[longweight]

For me it isn't an aesthetic form factor and boards like the HHKB have such a good Fn layer so I don't need top layer access to F etc.

Also getting caps is a nightmare!

[dante]

Vortex Race 2 is coming...

[jdcarpe]

I don't know, but I'll just leave these here:











The Epsilon Keyboard

[epzy]

I don't know, but I'll just leave these here:

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The Epsilon Keyboard

I should get one of those and call it "epzylon" hmm...

[katushkin]

The KC is fantastic. And isn't the Race 75% as well?

[Shayde]

There's also the Matias Mini Quiet Pro.

[digi]

A while back I was really looking forward to seeing samwisekoi's gh75 take off:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43450.0

I believe GON also makes a MX-Mini (75):

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/24-gon-ns-mx-mini-w-tuningassembly.html

[hashbaz]

For me it isn't an aesthetic form factor and boards like the HHKB have such a good Fn layer so I don't need top layer access to F etc.

Also getting caps is a nightmare!

Pretty much this.

Personally I do actually like the uniform "slab o' keys" look, but 60% boards do look cooler and are just as functional.

[digi]

For me it isn't an aesthetic form factor and boards like the HHKB have such a good Fn layer so I don't need top layer access to F etc.

Also getting caps is a nightmare!

Pretty much this.

Personally I do actually like the uniform "slab o' keys" look, but 60% boards do look cooler and are just as functional.

hmm, thats debateable, Function row without using a modifier key?

[hashbaz]

What do you use the function row for?

[digi]

macros, game keybindings, find, spell checker, help, web browser full screen etc. I just like having the single keypress opposed to using a modifier. It's preference, we still friends?  )

[davkol]

There's the TECK, but I won't ever get that one, because of the Truly Ergonomic part.

IMHO this form factor is perfect for gaming, portable and easy to learn to use.

For now, I'm stuck with Noppoo Choc Mini (sucky availability and I don't really trust the PCB either) and TypeMatrix 2030 (essentially 75% layout; too bad it has only ABS keycaps and proprietary firmware). I didn't like the Race or the 82key TG3/Deck keyboard, because of their layouts... and the rest have either weird switches, or rubber domes. I've never found KC84 more appealing than choc mini.

GH75 is dead, Epsilon has never really been meant to be an option... maybe I'll make something on my own one day.

[Pacifist]

What i liked about the kc84 was it has pretty much every key on a tkl but its smaller and more compact.

but i guess some companies don't like to make 1,75 shifts

[jdcarpe]

What i liked about the kc84 was it has pretty much every key on a tkl but its smaller and more compact.

but i guess some companies don't like to make 1,75 shifts

That's why metalliqaz made the Epsilon to fit the keycaps from an MY7000 board.

He probably needs to make another run of those one day...

[Pacifist]

What i liked about the kc84 was it has pretty much every key on a tkl but its smaller and more compact.

but i guess some companies don't like to make 1,75 shifts

That's why metalliqaz made the Epsilon to fit the keycaps from an MY7000 board.

He probably needs to make another run of those one day...

I've moved onto 60% for the next compact board. 75% is perfect if you can't remap keys. But with a programable 60%, you can get all the keys you need to use easily, 1 colum 1 row shorter

[remdell]

What i liked about the kc84 was it has pretty much every key on a tkl but its smaller and more compact.

but i guess some companies don't like to make 1,75 shifts

That's why metalliqaz made the Epsilon to fit the keycaps from an MY7000 board.

He probably needs to make another run of those one day...

I've moved onto 60% for the next compact board. 75% is perfect if you can't remap keys. But with a programable 60%, you can get all the keys you need to use easily, 1 colum 1 row shorter

I'm with you on this.  Simple remapping via dip switch or AutoHotKey helped me compact necessary keys into a small 60% board.  I initially avoided 60%'s for their lack of arrow keys, but because I rarely use right alt, ctrl, windows, and shift, remapping those four keys into an arrow cluster solved my 60% problem.

[Skull_Angel]

I could see myself using a 60% board for work, but I like having that damned F-row for gaming (mmo) keybinds.

[Lengradde]

I'm in the same boat, disappointed with the lack of 75% keyboard options.  I too need the F row and arrows directly accessible due to MMO games and key binds.

The mention of 60% boards doesn't even belong in this thread.  All I want is a 75% board with no plate and no LEDs, yet there's literally nothing on the market and nothing coming down the pipe.  Sucks...

[Pacifist]

I'm in the same boat, disappointed with the lack of 75% keyboard options.  I too need the F row and arrows directly accessible due to MMO games and key binds.

The mention of 60% boards doesn't even belong in this thread.  All I want is a 75% board with no plate and no LEDs, yet there's literally nothing on the market and nothing coming down the pipe.  Sucks...

Really the only pcb mounted commercial board is either poker x or cherry boards

The only way to get 75% pcb mounted is custom. metalliqaz has a custom 75% but I don't think he has more parts.

[dante]

The first gen KBT Race was also PCB.

[Pacifist]

The first gen KBT Race was also PCB.

Ah yes, the race. A great keyboard but not common because they produced so few

[Fragil1ty]

I've looked at all the possibilities in terms of 75% boards and the kc/noppoo are the only ones that appeal to me, I don't really want to shy away from these type of boards.

Last week I gave away a Filco TKL to a friend of mine, it was brand new, gave it away because I just didn't like it, too big for me

[katushkin]

If you don't get a KC and join the club (therearedozensofus.gif) I will be very sad.

It seems like a lot of people reccomend/get reccommended keycools, but I see so few of them here and on /r/mechanicalkeyboards

[charlaph]

I imagine the lack of choice is because it's such a niche product. If you need F keys or arrows/insert cluster then TKL is the default way to go. If you want something smaller than TKL then most people will jump directly to a 60%, it's only those people who need both a smaller form factor AND the arrows/insert that will ever buy a 75% and I don't imagine there's all that many of them (well, there are on keyboard forums, but y'know, I mean in the wider populace)

Just to add my personal input on this. I was leaning towards a KC84 as my first mechanical, but went for a TKL instead as I use the arrows and insert cluster quite a lot and am familiar with the layout - it's also not that much larger than the KC84. My reasoning for not getting the 75% was that if I was going to go to the effort and take the time to learn a non-standard layout, then I'd prefer to just get a 60% and enjoy the smaller form and greater choice of keys. I might still end up getting a KC84 as I like the look of them and they're a bargain, but I doubt it'll ever become my main board.

[davkol]

Niche product? I doubt that. Most compact keyboards, especially in the laptop market, have some variation of a ~75% layout... and scissor switches at best.

[simon_C]

I personally love the 75% layout if it is done properly. Love the size and layout of my noppoo.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I just got a Matias mini quiet pro. I like how compact it is compared to a full board. I see the form factor as a good compromise between having function keys, arrow keys, and a compact width.

[blighty]

Keysets for 75% are a bit of a pain to get, but worth it

I'm sure people have seen these R4 Sph. 

Cherry caps work just as well, if not better, due to their low profile:

It took keysets from both an mx8000 and an mx/my1800 to get almost full DS coverage (the win keys and fn caps are pad printed)

[tbc]

^ DSA blanks is truly the way to go.  although I'm perfectly fine swapping a 1.25x mod for the 2x right shift.

[scottjad]

I know they're not cherry/topre switches, but I just wanted to note that this keyboard on my Thinkpad X220 is IMO more similar to the 75% keyboards than anything else, in part because of the arrow key placement and its width. Also, the Apple Wireless Keyboard is essentially a 75% keyboard, though I know it lacks a few keys. In fact, the keyboards on all mac laptops are essentially 75%.

So while 75% may be niche in cherry/topre keyboards, which are themselves quite niche, it is actually well represented in laptop keyboards.

I slightly prefer my Keycool 84 over my Noppoo Choc Mini.

I suck at Starcraft 2 and use F2 to select all my army. On a HHKB, that would require two hands with the Fn placement. Perhaps someone will say I should be using control groups for my army on 1 and 2. But then again if I were good I would want to use F3-F6 to move the camera to my bases, so the problem still stands.

Of course I use F keys for a ton of other things too, like driving a debugger and switching virtual desktops and moving windows to different virtual desktops and midnight commander and tons of things in Emacs and Excel and it's just nice not having to use an extra modifier key.

One nice thing about using a 75% keyboard is that when you inevitably have to use a laptop keyboard, it's not as much of an adjustment.

[ideus]

I know they're not cherry/topre switches, but I just wanted to note that this keyboard on my Thinkpad X220 is IMO more similar to the 75% keyboards than anything else, in part because of the arrow key placement and its width. Also, the Apple Wireless Keyboard is essentially a 75% keyboard, though I know it lacks a few keys. In fact, the keyboards on all mac laptops are essentially 75%.

So while 75% may be niche in cherry/topre keyboards, which are themselves quite niche, it is actually well represented in laptop keyboards.

I slightly prefer my Keycool 84 over my Noppoo Choc Mini.

I suck at Starcraft 2 and use F2 to select all my army. On a HHKB, that would require two hands with the Fn placement. Perhaps someone will say I should be using control groups for my army on 1 and 2. But then again if I were good I would want to use F3-F6 to move the camera to my bases, so the problem still stands.

Of course I use F keys for a ton of other things too, like driving a debugger and switching virtual desktops and moving windows to different virtual desktops and midnight commander and tons of things in Emacs and Excel and it's just nice not having to use an extra modifier key.

One nice thing about using a 75% keyboard is that when you inevitably have to use a laptop keyboard, it's not as much of an adjustment.

My thinkpad has an oustanding keyboard for a laptop, but I'd use my mech keyboard any time. Functions keys? mm, what do you need them for, that requiere them to have dedicated keys?

[StylinGreymon]

Too cluttered looking, for me.

[scottjad]

Functions keys? mm, what do you need them for, that requiere them to have dedicated keys?

I pointed out that Starcraft 2 uses F1 for idle worker, F2 for all army, F3-F? for centering the camera on your bases. Taking your right hand off your mouse to press the Fn key is not acceptable for a RTS game. Now, you can say you should come up with different keybindings for these things, or that you should hook up a different keyboard everytime you want to play, but this is one good example where having dedicated F keys is very important.

[jacobolus]

I pointed out that Starcraft 2 uses F1 for idle worker, F2 for all army, F3-F? for centering the camera on your bases. Taking your right hand off your mouse to press the Fn key is not acceptable for a RTS game. Now, you can say you should come up with different keybindings for these things, or that you should hook up a different keyboard everytime you want to play, but this is one good example where having dedicated F keys is very important.

All sorts of existing applications take advantage of the keys that happen to be already present on the keyboard. That doesn’t mean that the number of keys or their layout is a good one, though.

It is much easier, whether for playing starcraft or for invoking actions in Photoshop or closing applications in MS Windows or whatever else, to have at least 3-4 thumb keys as modifiers and assign one of them + the home row to be F1, F2, F3, F4, instead of needing to reach up for the F keys on a “traditional” keyboard layout.

[scottjad]

I'm all for having more modifiers on the thumbs and for experimenting with different layouts. I'm a huge fan of SpaceFn and similar ideas. My response was more geared toward why one might want a 75% vs the same thing w/o a F row, e.g. a 60% with a Fn key on the right hand side.

[RESPRiT]

Too cluttered looking, for me.

I think is actually a big reason for the turn off. There's just too much going on, the aesthetic isn't quite there.

[tbc]

I'm all for having more modifiers on the thumbs and for experimenting with different layouts.

filco minila.  master race layout - dungbeetle keycaps

[RESPRiT]

I'm all for having more modifiers on the thumbs and for experimenting with different layouts.

filco minila.  master race layout - dungbeetle keycaps

SP DSA base + mods and I think 2(?) extra keys should cover that issue, though.

[tbc]

^ no convex 3x spacebar.  only 3x concave key (think slightly larger right shift).  also the stock fn keys are convex 1.25x. you need 2x for the left shift (i use the numpad 2x 0 key).

4 keys that won't be covered by a TKL set.

i'm talking about a blank set btw, if you want correct legends, you're in deep doo doo.

and some people are really picky against DSA.  I would argue DSA isn't that bad when you're using it on a 60% board.

[RESPRiT]

I remember trying to work it out a bit ago, and I'm pretty sure you get a 2x that would normally be for a backspace that you can use for the lshift. Also a TKL set should have enough 1.25x keys for the win/ctrl/alt/fn on the bottom row for a Minila, right? I think the only extras you actually need are the 3x spacebar and 1.75x lctrl. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

[tbc]

sorry, my bad.

I'm tired and didn't notice you're talking about just DSA (i was talking about no profile in particular)

you're right about the keys though

no convex keys REALLY screws up your feeling.  there's no reason that you wouldn't be able to adapt; it'll just be really weird because you'll solely be relying on the position of your fingers rather than on the feel of the key (you'll KNOW you're above space, but the feeling will make it seem like you're above ALT)