Ebay M with issues, return?

[Vxeheme]

I purchased on Ebay, from a newer clicky vendor with 100% feedback who specializes in Model M's, a 1987 1391401 for $30.95, which was advertised as "perfect condition inside and out. It has been thoroughly tested and is in perfect working order."  It is clean and looks nice, but has 19 keys (mostly grouped in 2's and 3's) which don't click and which do not produce a letter when pressed unless I really mash on them.  My wife thought those keys didn't work at all, after multiple attempts, to illustrate the firmness required.  It is impossible to touch-type.

I have read that the plastic rivets cause trouble, and can be replaced with screws & nuts.  Is this the trouble they cause?  Failure to click/register key presses?

Should I keep this keyboard at that price and try to fix it (if it is rivet trouble), or insist on a refund as not being as advertised?  After paying shipping two ways, I'll lose $30 and still not have a keyboard, but I don't feel it was advertised honestly.

Thanks for your time.

[MANISH7]

it's only fair that the buyer accommodate you. write to him what you've indicated here. request for a refund and ask him to consider letting go of the keyboard given its significantly defective condition so that you don't have to pay for return shipping as you've already paid $15 the first time. if he asks you to ship it back, then return shipping should cost no more than $8 via FedEx (that's how much I paid to ship a model m from philly to boston). so you'll lose $25. i personally am not comfortable nor want to spend the time repairing / modding the keyboard.

[wellington1869]

I have read that the plastic rivets cause trouble, and can be replaced with screws & nuts.  Is this the trouble they cause?  Failure to click/register key presses?

no, this isnt the symptom they cause. it sounds like you got a bum board.

Should I keep this keyboard at that price and try to fix it

no, the price you got it for is okay, but its not an amazing deal and you should be able to get that price again without too much trouble.

insist on a refund as not being as advertised?  After paying shipping two ways, I'll lose $30 and still not have a keyboard, but I don't feel it was advertised honestly.

if it was not advertised honestly (and it sounds like it was not), the seller should really pay shipping both ways (you'd be in your rights to insist) (or atleast one way) it seems to me. Most reasonable sellers are willing to do that once they understand the problem and accept that there is a problem.
You can also always open a case with paypal for a refund after trying to get the seller to cooperate; i've done that once and paypal was very quick and very responsive and I got my full purchase price back.

[ch_123]

On a more practical end of things, did you try removing and reseating the keycaps (well, both the removable keycap and the steam underneath it) of the keys in question?

[wellington1869]

On a more practical end of things, did you try removing and reseating the keycaps (well, both the removable keycap and the steam underneath it) of the keys in question?

lol, this is a good point actually. before you raise hell with the seller, pop the keys off and reseat them. Badly seated keys on an M will cause some of the symptoms you're describing (no click, weird presses, etc). Make sure the spring goes straight up into the stem (and not at an angle) when you click the key back on.

[ch_123]

Just to add to that, from experience, I find that the best way to ensure the key/stem goes back in the right way is to hold the keyboard upside-down and let the springs fall against the top of the shaft that they rest in (or bottom if you are look at it upside down). That way you ensure the spring matches up nicely with the notch for the spring underneath the key/stem.

[wellington1869]

Just to add to that, from experience, I find that the best way to ensure the key/stem goes back in the right way is to hold the keyboard upside-down and let the springs rest against the top of the shaft that they rest in (or bottom if you are look at it upside down).

ya, or lift the front edge of the keyboard so the springs plop backwards. they're more straight that way when the key goes on.

[watduzhkstand4]

Did you purchase from clicky0131 on ebay? I got one from him just now and had the same symptoms as you did. For the keys that doesn't click, try to reseat the whole key. That's what I did to the ones that didn't click for mine and it works great right now. Hope this helps!

[Vxeheme]

Did you purchase from clicky0131 on ebay? I got one from him just now and had the same symptoms as you did. For the keys that doesn't click, try to reseat the whole key. That's what I did to the ones that didn't click for mine and it works great right now. Hope this helps!

Yes, from clicky0131, and the reseating of both outer/inner caps seems to work!  I tried it on 4 keys which now work properly.  My wife is making me go to bed (gotta get up early), so I can't finish the rest of the keys just now.

Thanks for all of the quick responses, you folks are on the ball.  I'll post tomorrow after work when I can work on it more.

[watduzhkstand4]

Yes, from clicky0131, and the reseating of both outer/inner caps seems to work!  I tried it on 4 keys which now work properly.  My wife is making me go to bed (gotta get up early), so I can't finish the rest of the keys just now.

Thanks for all of the quick responses, you folks are on the ball.  I'll post tomorrow after work when I can work on it more.

You're welcome! Glad that it helped!

[Xuan]

Yes, from clicky0131, and the reseating of both outer/inner caps seems to work!  I tried it on 4 keys which now work properly.  My wife is making me go to bed (gotta get up early), so I can't finish the rest of the keys just now.

Thanks for all of the quick responses, you folks are on the ball.  I'll post tomorrow after work when I can work on it more.

shwishh, shwishhh... (whip soud)

Good luck with the rest! Have buckling dreams.

[itlnstln]

Sleep... what do wives know, anyway?

[ch_123]

Should have brought the keyboard to bed =P

[Vxeheme]

I was able to fix all of the keys during lunch today.  When I came home after work and hooked it up to test, however, several keys had lost their click again and I had to rereseat them.

So I'm not declaring victory yet.

[talis]

I'd still get in touch with the seller, you've spent a portion of your own time to repair it.

I think a lot of sellers believe they can hide behind the anonymity of EBay, and and not always deliver what they promise.  And I think of lot of buyers accept sub-standard purchases with no questions because of it.  The feedback function holds a huge amount of power over the sellers, don't hesitate to give negative feedback if they don't give you satisfaction.

If they promised a tested, working keyboard, there's no reason to accept less.  Even if you can fix it, you've spent a portion of your time to do so.

[Vxeheme]

Does anyone else here think that clicky0131 isn't a perfectionist?

Perhaps not, but he apologized and said he'd pay shipping to take it back and fix it, or trade for another (after my initial complaint yesterday), so he seems honest.

[talis]

Send him a link to geekhack, maybe he'll learn the right way to clean and re-assemble a keyboard =P.

[watduzhkstand4]

I was able to fix all of the keys during lunch today.  When I came home after work and hooked it up to test, however, several keys had lost their click again and I had to rereseat them.

So I'm not declaring victory yet.

Yea even now my caps lock key and my / key on the numpad is not clicking but I'm fine with it because I don't use the caps lock key too much and there are 2 of the / keys so I'm not complaining. But did he even return a feedback for you on ebay yet? He still didn't give me a feedback yet, about to message him about that!

[Vxeheme]

My keyboard has been fine since the reseating of the key stems.  My other keyboards feel defective without the click.

Thanks for the help.