AT Keyboard help

[anthonys]

Hi all!

I'm new to the forums, but I'm not a complete novice to computers and keyboards. I dug up an OLD Canon Navigator keyboard with Blue ALPS and Double-Shot injected keys. It's got a AT (DIN5 plug) on it.

My issue is it won't work with my current computer (Windows 7 32-bit). I have both an AT to PS/2 and a PS/2 to USB adapter. When I plug in just the AT to PS/2 I don't get any response at all, but the NUM/CAP/SCROLL Lock keys all work. When I use both adapters and plug it into USB, Windows makes the connection sound and the keyboard shows up under device manager, but again, no response. (I have also booted up with the keyboard in both the PS/2 and USB slots. Still not dice.)

Thanks for the help!
Anthony

[didjamatic]

What type of PS/2 to USB adapter are you using?

I would test it on a system that has a PS/2 port.

[anthonys]

My system has a PS/2 port and I've tried using the PS/2 port. No dice. (My current keyboard is PS/2 and it works just fine, though.)

The adapter is just some generic PS/2 to USB adapter that includes both mouse and keyboard ends.

[ch_123]

Is it like the one in this link?



So, who can recognize what sort of keyboard that is? =P

[anthonys]

That is the exact computer! Phone still works on mine, too. Unfortunately, the touchscreen was completely smashes by my brother. When we was really young he punched it because it was running slow. Now it just has a standard b/w screen.

[ch_123]

It's very interesting because the keyboard appears to be an AT-101 á la the Dell or SGI.

XT was the first thing that occured to me, but XTs don't have lock lights. I'm thinking either dodgy electronics, or some kind of proprietary protocol.

[ch_123]

The first thing I thought of when I saw it was the Black Dell AT101W.

Given the age, it's doubtlessly a real, Alps-made AT-101.

[kishy]

Some XT boards, I believe, did attempt to implement LEDs. The reason you don't see it often is because they could (and did) come out of sync with the computer's actual lock statuses, but some clones did have keyboards with lock LEDs. Can't cite an example but I've heard of them, and that can't have been totally made up out of nowhere.

[ch_123]

I'm still convinced that that thing is an AT-101. What does the label on the back of it say?

[kishy]

The one you supplied a pic of really does look like it could be another OEM of that board. The case design although plain is somewhat distinctive.

Edit: looking again, doesn't the Dell have a bit of a stronger curve to it than that?

However I did have that counterfeit black Cherry keyboard for a while...don't remember it too well but I think the case was similar.

[anthonys]

What label? Heh.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6736/img1725k.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9849/img1726a.jpg

[ch_123]

Alright, that's DEFINITELY an AT-101.

Which is interesting, because all the AT-101s I've seen so far as PS/2 keyboards. Obviously it would be trivial to make an AT connection as PS/2 is just AT with a different plug, but I somehow don't think it's an XT or proprietary thing. The fact that the Lock lights light up is further proof - as the LEDs require a signal from the computer to go on.

I'm thinking it could be a dud board. In that case, your best bet is probably to get a donor board and do a switch swap.

[anthonys]

I hope it's not a dud board. If so, what criteria would the donor board have to fill and how would I swap it for the new one?

(I'm thinking it might not be a dud because I have another AT (DIN5) keyboard that also does not work with this keyboard. The LED's also work. It is a Mouse Systems KWD-203 and FCC ID is LIAKWD-200. Very crappy rubber-dome one.)

[kishy]

Feasibility of finding a Dell with a bad case resulting in low cost, then swapping guts?

[Rajagra]

The symptoms might suggest it's an XT board, but having F11/12 keys puts it well into AT spec, surely? Did the AT-101 come with the Asian style Enter key?

Do the lights flash on briefly then go out as they should - except Num Lock?

You could have a broken AT to PS/2 convertor, especially if it's the cable type.

Your active USB convertor will probably tell the PC it is a keyboard even if one is not plugged in (it works by emulating a keyboard), so you can't take that as proof that the actual board is functioning.

[anthonys]

I'll have to reboot and check on that one.
The AT to PS/2 converter is the cylindrical "block" kind.
Okay, that makes sense.

Some pictures of the inside:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2462/img1731h.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4489/img1732j.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9392/img1733t.jpg
And the switch:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1300/img1728q.jpg

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Feasibility of finding a Dell with a bad case resulting in low cost, then swapping guts?

Or alternatively; get a dell 101 and use that. I got one for 2 euros this week working fine, though the key caps needed a wash.

[anthonys]

Would it be possible to grab a 101W and just swap the caps? Since they are the same design, basically?

I could try it on an older PC I have, but I don't know if that will guarantee me any results.

[kishy]

Alright, so get the guts from the Dell, then swap all the switches from the Canon onto the Dell's guts, then put the Dell's guts into the Canon case and all the Canon keys back on the Canon switches in the Canon case.

It works so much easier if you just infer things :/

[anthonys]

Okay, thanks! That makes a lot more sense now.

Would using a SGI AT101 work better/the same? I think the business my father works for has some old SGI's in the storage room they don't want anymore. Would definitely save me $30 or so.

[kishy]

Well, let's try to figure out if the internal mounting of everything is the same...for sure...before we go ripping everything apart. For all I know this has already been established, I'm just playing it safe with the advice generator, that's all.

[anthonys]

I have what appears to be either Type I or III ALPS Blue switches on an old Canon keyboard. (Body of a SGI AT101 but 5 years older. ~1988. Came from a Canon Navigator, but before that was on an IBM computer)

I believe the keys are also tactile and clicky because they have a sort of "click" noise when you depress the key. I've never owned a mechanical keyboard before this, so I don't know exactly what a clicky keyboard sounds like.

If I got some close up pictures could someone determine the exact switch type it is?

Thanks!

Posted that over in the Wiki, but thought I should post it here as well.

Thanks for all the help so far! You guys have been awesome!

[ch_123]

Feasibility of finding a Dell with a bad case resulting in low cost, then swapping guts?

It would have to be an original old-label with pink alps - the later ones were made by Silitek and were different internally and externally.

Alps made the AT-101 for themselves, and for a number of different OEMs - Dell, SGI, Toshiba, HP, and apparently Cannon too. Sometime later Dell decided to cut corners and had Silitek make them instead. The Alps-made AT-101s are a good bit better built than the Silitek ones.

[piston]

Hi, there! Has anyone got it work with modern PC? I have the same keyboard (I mean Canon navigator keyboard). After connecting it through AT(DIN-5) > PS/2 adapter it doesn't work. It's only all LEDs are flashing. Can it be incompatibility problem? I have another AT keyboard - it works fine.
Thanks in advance.
P.S. Sorry for bad English.

[hwood34]

Hi, there! Did anyone make it works with modern PC? I have the same keyboard (I mean Canon navigator keyboard). After connecting it through AT > PC/2 adapter it doesn't work. It's only all leds are flashing. Can it be incompatibility problem? I have another AT keyboard - it works fine.
Thanks in advance.
P.S. Sorry for bad English.

Nice uber-necro. And are you sure it isn't XT?

[piston]

Nice uber-necro. And are you sure it isn't XT?

How can I find out?
Quote from the product description:

The keyboard uses the familiar 101-key IBM Enhanced Keyboard layout. There are ports for an external printer and modem. The integrated 10-inch monochrome monitor sports 640 × 350-pixel (EGA) resolution. An expansion box is available which allows you to use two full-size XT expansion cards.

[hwood34]

Nice uber-necro. And are you sure it isn't XT?

How can I find out?

Take a pic of the cable and the connecotr. XT usually looks a little different, though it's not a surefire strategy. Are you using an active ps/2 to USB converter?

[piston]

Take a pic of the cable and the connecotr. XT usually looks a little different, though it's not a surefire strategy. Are you using an active ps/2 to USB converter?

The keyboard has DIN-5 connector like http://blender3d.org.ua/gallery/iwe/upload/din_5_180.jpg.
I have a passive DIN-5 to PS/2 converter like http://www.pcplan-it.com/din5_to_ps2.jpg. Another keyboard works with it fine. I thought that XT keyboads have 83 keys, my one has 101 keys. Can XT keyboard have 101 keys?