Making a Living Off of the Keyboard Hobby

[SpAmRaY]

I'm in the middle of some self discovery stuff and one of the things it pushes is make a living doing what you love.

Anyone think it's feasible or reasonable to make a living off of the keyboard hobby?

I could bankroll some keysets and profit (sounds like that happens for quite a few people already) or perhaps offer soldering assembly services.

Any other thoughts? 

[billnye]

sell clacks on eBay

[DrHubblePhD]

Neone seems to be making a killing ask him )

[SpAmRaY]

sell clacks on eBay

I got no clacks

[jdcarpe]

Yes, if you have the capital to invest in making things yourself and selling your inventory at a standard markup, the opportunity is there.

[hwood34]

sell clacks on eBay

I got no clacks

I had clacks...

[DrHubblePhD]

Yes, if you have the capital to invest in making things yourself and selling your inventory at a standard markup, the opportunity is there.

Only 4 more JD

[vivalarevolución]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

[DrHubblePhD]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

That was on fleecing GHers, this is more legitimate  )

[SpAmRaY]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

Well that wasn't serious, it was more of a joke. This thread is serious, I put it in keycaps because I'm considering having some GMK sets made and paying for them and selling them just didn't know if it is really feasible to attempt.

[baldgye]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

Well that wasn't serious, it was more of a joke. This thread is serious, I put it in keycaps because I'm considering having some GMK sets made and paying for them and selling them just didn't know if it is really feasible to attempt.

Should maybe pm those who have invested time and money into GMK GB's and do some research into cost/demand for GMK caps etc??

[jdcarpe]

Yes, it's very feasible.

[SpAmRaY]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

Well that wasn't serious, it was more of a joke. This thread is serious, I put it in keycaps because I'm considering having some GMK sets made and paying for them and selling them just didn't know if it is really feasible to attempt.

Should maybe pm those who have invested time and money into GMK GB's and do some research into cost/demand for GMK caps etc??

I have done that but didn't want to be a one trick pony either, hence the reason for this thread.

[Jokrik]

I'd love to share my experience if you don't mind
For me cooking is my passion, food is my life and I'd love to cook just to see the happy face of the people who eat my food

I've been offered a job and scholarship to be a chef when I studied abroad to get my accounting degree (believe me my love in food really shows on the food I cook)

I rejected it

Because I know for a fact that cooking is my getaway and stress reliever, but when I put my passion at risk of being pressured due to the commitment I put for the profession

I would have to find a new way to relax or enjoy out from cooking

And I don't think Ive the gut to risk it
So as long as you are ready to commit and anticipate the worst, you might as well succeed

[SpAmRaY]

I'd love to share my experience if you don't mind
For me cooking is my passion, food is my life and I'd love to cook just to see the happy face of the people who eat my food

I've been offered a job and scholarship to be a chef when I studied abroad to get my accounting degree (believe me my love in food really shows on the food I cook)

I rejected it

Because I know for a fact that cooking is my getaway and stress reliever, but when I put my passion at risk of being pressured due to the commitment I put for the profession

I would have to find a new way to relax or enjoy out from cooking

And I don't think Ive the gut to risk it
So as long as you are ready to commit and anticipate the worst, you might as well succeed

^^ Thanks for the insight!

 That is why for me personally I would NOT want to be a moderator here because of the added pressures and the forum wouldn't be enjoyable anymore. Definitely something to consider!

[IvanIvanovich]

If you have a spare $35-40K or so to get started with 1 GMK set MOQ you can certainly go for it. Might be better to start off with something cheaper though... maybe you could import some of those nice Leopold PBT sets or something. I don't think there are any US sellers for those currently.

[SpAmRaY]

If you have a spare $35-40K or so to get started with 1 GMK set MOQ you can certainly go for it. Might be better to start off with something cheaper though... maybe you could import some of those nice Leopold PBT sets or something. I don't think there are any US sellers for those currently.

Had not thought about that, those leopold caps are very nice.

And I do believe I could get the GMK set I would want to sell for much less than that based on the quotes they provided.

[bueller]

jokrik makes a very good point. When I was younger I was heavily invested in my photography as a hobby until in my early 20's when I started working as a live music photographer. Loved doing that for about a year and then spent the next two just going through the motions until I completely burnt out on it. I never noticed it until it was too late but eventually it just became another job and I hated even looking at a camera, eventually sold all my equipment and it's only three years later that I've started getting interested in buying another one.

[vivalarevolución]

why is this post in key caps?  Didn't you start another thread on this?

Well that wasn't serious, it was more of a joke. This thread is serious, I put it in keycaps because I'm considering having some GMK sets made and paying for them and selling them just didn't know if it is really feasible to attempt.

I know at least a couple people on here that seem to make a good buck on here with the keyboard hobby, but they aren't doing it through keycaps.  I don't want to explicitly name names out of concern for their own privacy, but perhaps we could discuss it through PM or something.  I'm still don't even want to name names through PM without their permission, but perhaps we could just bounce around ideas.

[IvanIvanovich]

I also included some overhead costs like mailing supplies, printer toner, bank transfer fees, buffer for potential loss on paypal fees, other payment processing fees, exchange rate to EUR, import customs fees... etc... lots of these 'little things' really add up increasing the real costs. You really can't forget all that kind of **** or you can end up in the negative pretty fast.

[SpAmRaY]

I also included some overhead costs like mailing supplies, printer toner, bank transfer fees, buffer for potential loss on paypal fees, other payment processing fees, exchange rate to EUR, import customs fees... etc... lots of these 'little things' really add up increasing the real costs. You really can't forget all that kind of **** or you can end up in the negative pretty fast.

Very true and with hundreds of customers a lot of the little things would add up very fast.

[bueller]

I think you could make some decent coin from stocking PCB's and other DIY parts IF you stock all the other parts needed for assembly. Laser cut plates could be especially lucrative if you can place large enough orders with the fabricators to make it worth their while, I've found usually a lot of the cost is setup fees.

Make up some kits with PCB + Plate with an option to select springs, switches and stabs and I think they'd sell quite well. As it stands you have to order from a number of different places or get it from outside the US, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in a kit they could order locally and receive a couple of days later.

[metalliqaz]

Ask GON.  I'll bet he's doing pretty well.

One thing to note, though.  It is wonderful to be able to support yourself off a labor of love, however skill is still important.  Liking what you do makes the work enjoyable, but you need skill, good taste, and hard work (and maybe some luck) to make it lucrative.  Therefore it is not always best to just choose the thing you enjoy the most.

[bueller]

Ask GON.  I'll bet he's doing pretty well.

There's a reason all his cases are low profile. I won't deny the fit and finish on his stuff is superb but there is no way cost for the parts on those cases is over $50.

[azhdar]

Build switch openers and sell them.
Make a shop with all DIY parts : Stabs, spring, lubes, switches .... (currently you have to source those from multiples sources and it's very expensive when not con-US).

[IvanIvanovich]

Exactly. I learned some of that the hard way when I started out on groupbuy running. It's mostly the same thing, but I don't mark everything up to make a living on it. Doing many big buys it's very much like running a business but without potential financial rewards, but I don't take a large risk either since I'm not personally paying up front for a bunch of product that may move really slow or not at all. That risk is one of the major reasons I have not had interest to move over to being a vendor and trying to make money on it. It can be hard to guess what is going to be popular and sell well sometimes. Things come and fall out of favor rapidly at times around here.

[Firebolt1914]

Build switch openers and sell them.
Make a shop with all DIY parts : Stabs, spring, lubes, switches .... (currently you have to source those from multiples sources and it's very expensive when not con-US).

I would actually really like this; having to get things from multiple sources is very annoying.

(Don't forget about switch stickers as well )

[azhdar]

Build switch openers and sell them.
Make a shop with all DIY parts : Stabs, spring, lubes, switches .... (currently you have to source those from multiples sources and it's very expensive when not con-US).

I would actually really like this; having to get things from multiple sources is very annoying.

(Don't forget about switch stickers as well )

Yeah that too.
Just look what people have a hard time sourcing, and source it for them.

[greath]

Personally I think with all the PBT hype (justified or not) if you could find a way to regularly supply thick, cherry profile, and dye-subbed PBT you'd definitely find a market demand for it

No idea how feasible it is, but maybe try to build a relation with BSP or imsto for caps. Even if you only get blanks you could find a 2nd manufacturer to dye-sub (or maybe do it in house? Not sure what is involved).

[intelli78]

Yes, I think it's possible, in a variety of ways. But don't expect to achieve a living income quickly, and it will obviously be even harder if you have a family (=more $ and safety net needed)

[baldgye]

I think there is a good place for a store, or person, to run GMK a sets, like originate, only accountable... Personally I wish I had the money to pay for X number of GMK Miami sets and then sell them through GH like a vendor would and use that to maybe do something more. But I can't front that kind of cash and don't have the time either.

Despite my skepticism this thread has turned out to be very interesting, sorry for being a bit of a **** before

[SpAmRaY]

I think there is a good place for a store, or person, to run GMK a sets, like originate, only accountable... Personally I wish I had the money to pay for X number of GMK Miami sets and then sell them through GH like a vendor would and use that to maybe do something more. But I can't front that kind of cash and don't have the time either.

Despite my skepticism this thread has turned out to be very interesting, sorry for being a bit of a **** before

No worries! I think we all have good ideas and since we are all in the hobby together its all worth sharing!

[azhdar]

I think there is a good place for a store, or person, to run GMK a sets, like originate, only accountable... Personally I wish I had the money to pay for X number of GMK Miami sets and then sell them through GH like a vendor would and use that to maybe do something more. But I can't front that kind of cash and don't have the time either.

Despite my skepticism this thread has turned out to be very interesting, sorry for being a bit of a **** before

we need to wait on uniqey before speculating on GMK reselling.

[bueller]

I think there is a good place for a store, or person, to run GMK a sets, like originate, only accountable... Personally I wish I had the money to pay for X number of GMK Miami sets and then sell them through GH like a vendor would and use that to maybe do something more. But I can't front that kind of cash and don't have the time either.

Despite my skepticism this thread has turned out to be very interesting, sorry for being a bit of a **** before

we need to wait on uniqey before speculating on GMK reselling.

ONE MONTH TO GO!!!! I've been practically counting down the days even though I'm still expecting to be disappointed.

[baldgye]

I kept thinking while I was on my lunch break, and there are two sets that are pretty coverted, the dolch set and the grey/beige cherry set, having a reliable place to buy those sets would be pretty awesome. Not personally for me, but I've had a lot of people who arnt into the hobby so much be interested in getting a set and having no where to really go (as it's difficult to sell people on the idea of GB's when they don't know much about site/community).

[bueller]

I kept thinking while I was on my lunch break, and there are two sets that are pretty coverted, the dolch set and the grey/beige cherry set, having a reliable place to buy those sets would be pretty awesome. Not personally for me, but I've had a lot of people who arnt into the hobby so much be interested in getting a set and having no where to really go (as it's difficult to sell people on the idea of GB's when they don't know much about site/community).

[baldgye]

I kept thinking while I was on my lunch break, and there are two sets that are pretty coverted, the dolch set and the grey/beige cherry set, having a reliable place to buy those sets would be pretty awesome. Not personally for me, but I've had a lot of people who arnt into the hobby so much be interested in getting a set and having no where to really go (as it's difficult to sell people on the idea of GB's when they don't know much about site/community).

Show Image

You just gotta get there before GMK a set up a store front of there own ;)

[bueller]

I kept thinking while I was on my lunch break, and there are two sets that are pretty coverted, the dolch set and the grey/beige cherry set, having a reliable place to buy those sets would be pretty awesome. Not personally for me, but I've had a lot of people who arnt into the hobby so much be interested in getting a set and having no where to really go (as it's difficult to sell people on the idea of GB's when they don't know much about site/community).

Show Image

You just gotta get there before GMK a set up a store front of there own ;)

I'm hoping that's what Uniqey will be. Seems insane to me that there are so many people wanting to buy their caps and yet they make us jump through a million hoops and meet MOQ's. All they'd need to do to start out would be to offer Classic Beige, Dolch, Black on White and Olivetti and then poll existing customers on future colorways to offer. They'd need to have someone there to answer queries and ship caps but considering how many quotes they're doing up for GB's that never get off the ground they'd probably save time on the admin side of things.

[vivalarevolución]

I also included some overhead costs like mailing supplies, printer toner, bank transfer fees, buffer for potential loss on paypal fees, other payment processing fees, exchange rate to EUR, import customs fees... etc... lots of these 'little things' really add up increasing the real costs. You really can't forget all that kind of **** or you can end up in the negative pretty fast.

Playing off what Ivan said, my buddy that runs a small business said to be aware of the administrative and planning part of running the business. He noted that many people that start in business in something related to their passion often do not manage the administrative part of the business very well, and suffer because of it.  I know that seems kinda obvious, but obviously, it is not among many small business owners.

[noisyturtle]

Unless you're a retailer I don't see any feasible way to make any sort of decent money from this hobby. Maybe building K-customs but even then it's like $300 in parts + labor and time for only a $100-200 return per board. I think most artisan cap makers barely break even through their sales and same thing with cap set backers.

[digi]

Ask GON.  I'll bet he's doing pretty well.

One thing to note, though.  It is wonderful to be able to support yourself off a labor of love, however skill is still important.  Liking what you do makes the work enjoyable, but you need skill, good taste, and hard work (and maybe some luck) to make it lucrative.  Therefore it is not always best to just choose the thing you enjoy the most.

That's actually a really good point. GON himself even admitted he doesn't personally own a custom keyboard. I think it's more of an electronics hobby for him than specifically keyboards...and he's amazing at it btw.

[taylordcraig]

Lots of good points here on Uniqey, GMK, and GON.
I'd hold out and see what GMK has up their sleeve, build contacts within the vendor circle, and go from there.

[tjcaustin]

At this point, with the saturation of cable makers, cap sales and random people doing board building, you're going to have to beat ctlralt, techkeys and mk.com as a sort of all-in-one/one-stop shop to get any real foothold.

Do you have the investment to start a retail venture? 

Can you live without that money for a significant amount of time before you see a return on it? 

Can you live without paying yourself a wage for the standard 2 - 5 years that most self-operated/owned businesses take to really start turning a good profit? 

[Oobly]

IMHO, you can make money from the hobby easily enough, but to earn a living from it will be pretty hard.

It's a niche market (although it's growing) and there are already some others doing similar things. One advantage you have is... you're SpAmRaY. You're already known and trusted (speaking for myself at least) by a large portion of your target market.

I reckon baldgye is right about those two GMK sets. Perhaps a Hack'd by Geeks colourway would also sell well (at least I'd buy a GMK version), but best to chat with jdcarpe about it if you want to use it. If you also sell all the modding equipment and items (keycap pullers, switch openers, Krytox blends, range of springs, stickers, perhaps some cases?, 1.8mm LEDs?, wooden or Noko palm rests?, notched TKL and 60% plates?) as a "one-stop shop" that would be cool, too. It's a hassle to keep track of the logistics of having stock, though. Each item may have a different lead time, etc.

Also, if you can find a service / item that keyboard enthusiasts want or need that nobody else is providing and you can provide, that's a good thing for everyone.

I am trying to turn one of my keyboard ideas into a product, with an eye to do the same with another of them later, depending on how things go, and it's a lot of work with a lot of little details as Ivan said. One extra hurdle I have, though, is certification. Making a product for international sale is not as simple as it seemed at first. I have to weigh up whether it's worth putting all the effort in and losing some aspect of the "fun" of the hobby against the value of getting the product into the market. At moment I think it will be, since it's something I know I'd like to have and use and hopefully others will appreciate and want it, too. Even then, I'm not sure it would provide enough income to quit my normal job, but I can hope

Some great posts in this thread.