I need a new mechanical keyboard: Filco, Ducky, Unicomp... ???

[Entropia]

Hi. I'm thnking of buying a second mechanical keyboard. The one I have now is a Tesoro Durandal G1N with blacks. Pros: it's heavy, sturdy, non-iluminated and has visible white letters (I don't like illuminated keyboards because you cannot see the letters when the light is dim, and I wouldn’t really be using the leds often because I get paranoid about the fact of dying leds). Another pro of this keyboard is that you can actually write quite well with it. What I expect from a keyboard, apart from a nice feeling when using it, is not to make typing mistakes. I've tried several models with which I simply couldn't write, for instance a Corsair K70. I don't know if this has to do with key spacing, key shape, key size, inclination, or a combination of these. I'm sure it's not the type of switch. For instance, with an old IMB Model M: perfect. Same with a Cherry G80. With my Durandal the mistake ratio is not so perfect, but it's acceptable. Another pro that is a must for me is that all keys sound and feel the same. The Tesoro is perfect in this sense. The Cherry G80, for instance, was automatically returned for this reason. The Enter key and some others long keys just feel like rubber dome. I suppose this has to do with the stabilizers. I've also heard issues with Corsair with blues, with some of they keys not clicking as they should.

Summarizing, my demands are:
Full size keyboard with standard key distribution, not tenkeyless.
Switches: blues, browns or buckling springs.
Perfect design for typing, which is hard to say until you actually try the model.
Uniform sound and feel of all keys
Keyboard with Spanish ISO layout (not all brands offer this possibility).

What I'd also like as secondary preferences:
Non-illuminated, or at least if illuminated that it has bright and clear letters when the leds are off.
Good materials and build quality, with my main interest in the keycaps: better if pbt, but if they are abs I could live with it. If they get shinny over time, it would be a problem, but not something dramatic. It would be definitely much worse if the letters fade.

My candidates so far are the Filco Majestouch 2, the Ducky One and the Unicomp Ultra Classic. All three can be purchased with Spanish layout. The Filco and the Unicomp has to be ordered abroad, so the price (between 160€ or 180€) for me is around 80% higher than the Ducky. What I don't like about the Filco is the keycaps, that are supposed to get shinny very soon, and that's unacceptable for such a high end and expensive keyboard. The Unicomp has the great advantage that I know the writing performance with will be perfect, because of my previous experience with a Model M. So, as far as how the keys feel, sound, perform and the typing errors, it's a totally safe choice for me. Also the keycaps are pbt, so no worries at all in that sense. The cons are again the price and the quality of the case, which seems to be quite bad. The Ducky would be much cheaper, but I have dozens of doubts about it. I don't want to spend 100 € and have to return it because it doesn't meet some of my demands. I know the quality is not that of a Filco, but it has better keycaps and the reviews in general are very positive. However, the stabilizers are different and I have no idea how they perform.

So, I'm open to any kind of suggestion. Thank you.

[moh18one]

I'm not paid by them to do publicity but we will have in Europe two new stores and they will have an exclusivity on Leopold with ISO layout.

mykeyboard.eu http://mykeyboard.eu and candykeystore https://www.facebook.com/CandyKeysStore/

If you can wait until December it's better to take a Leopold because this keyboard have PBT stock keycaps and what you like on the Filco for less

[captsis]

+1 for Ducky 1 (heh). The transparent case is amazing and its solid from the one I tried. just FYI it takes a fare amount of use for ABS to get shiny like that. Im talking years. my K70 which has been using original caps since I bought it 3 years ago with daily use still hasnt gone shiny.

[1391406]

On price alone the clear choice would be the Ducky.

[Entropia]

I didn't know much about Leopold keyboards. I've been reading about them now and it seems they are at least the same quality as the Filcos. If the price is within the 100-150€ range, and they do really come in ISO and with Spanish layout, they may be very serious candidates. I hope they bring some full models, because something I forgot to say in my first message is that I do not want tenkeyless, 60% and things like that. After browsing their catalog, the only downside is that their models with PBT keycaps all are front printed, which I don't really like too much.

[moh18one]

I didn't know much about Leopold keyboards. I've been reading about them now and it seems they are at least the same quality as the Filcos. If the price is within the 100-150€ range, and they do really come in ISO and with Spanish layout, they may be very serious candidates. I hope they bring some full models, because something I forgot to say in my first message is that I do not want tenkeyless, 60% and things like that. After browsing their catalog, the only downside is that their models with PBT keycaps all are front printed, which I don't really like too much.

According to the Candy Keys Store facebook. They will have all the different layout for the Leopold


I have posted a facebook capture

[Entropia]

I'm seriously considering sacrifying my habit and the usability of a Spanish ISO layout and buy a USA ANSI keyboard. The range of possibilities if I do so are so vast! You Americans don't know how lucky you are in this sense. After all, I don't normaly use accents in Spanish and the Ñ is not a very common letter. The major problem is with other signs and their locations. I suppose some months of use would help me adapt my fingers and my brain.

Actually, I already developed a program in Autohotkey for a Spanish guy in a Spanish forum who bought a foreign keyboard. It makes the useless Appkey work like the shift for N -> Ñ, ? -> ¿, ! -> ¡, and also for accents, but in a different way, just like the accent key is used in Spanish (press the accent key, release it, press the vowel, and that's it: á, é, etc.) If anyone needs this script don't hesitate to ask me.

But, going back to the topic we we're discussing, I've found beauties such as this Ducky One non-backlit, with think PBT keycaps. Apart from the ISO and language, it has everything I could wish. I even like the color scheme. Do you know of any other quality keyboards which are non-backlit, which already come with thick PBT keycaps (with top, not front printed letters), and that have a full layout (I've seen many models with even more beautiful keycaps (I love big centered letters) but all are 60%, 40%, tenkeyless, etc.

Thanks!

[1391406]

Do you know of any other quality keyboards which are non-backlit, which already come with thick PBT keycaps (with top, not front printed letters), and that have a full layout (I've seen many models with even more beautiful keycaps (I love big centered letters)

Yes:

[moh18one]

I'm seriously considering sacrifying my habit and the usability of a Spanish ISO layout and buy a USA ANSI keyboard. The range of possibilities if I do so are so vast! You Americans don't know how lucky you are in this sense. After all, I don't normaly use accents in Spanish and the Ñ is not a very common letter. The major problem is with other signs and their locations. I suppose some months of use would help me adapt my fingers and my brain.

Actually, I already developed a program in Autohotkey for a Spanish guy in a Spanish forum who bought a foreign keyboard. It makes the useless Appkey work like the shift for N -> Ñ, ? -> ¿, ! -> ¡, and also for accents, but in a different way, just like the accent key is used in Spanish (press the accent key, release it, press the vowel, and that's it: á, é, etc.) If anyone needs this script don't hesitate to ask me.

But, going back to the topic we we're discussing, I've found beauties such as this Ducky One non-backlit, with think PBT keycaps. Apart from the ISO and language, it has everything I could wish. I even like the color scheme. Do you know of any other quality keyboards which are non-backlit, which already come with thick PBT keycaps (with top, not front printed letters), and that have a full layout (I've seen many models with even more beautiful keycaps (I love big centered letters) but all are 60%, 40%, tenkeyless, etc.

Thanks!

Show Image

Leopold FC900R or Leopold FC980M will be available too in AINSI layout

[Entropia]

Yeah, the ISO Leopold FC900R with PBT keycaps would be perfect if only it had top legends, not front. I don't know if could get used to front legends. It's mainly for aesthetics reasons.

[moh18one]

Yeah, the ISO Leopold FC900R with PBT keycaps would be perfect if only it had top legends, not front. I don't know if could get used to front legends. It's mainly for aesthetics reasons.

A topre keyboard can be good too (Leopold FC980C or Realforce 104).

[chyros]

Almost everything you said points toward a Unicomp.

Fullsize - check.
clicky/BS - check.
designed purely for typing - check.
uniform sound and feel - well it's technically impossible for all switches to sound the same in ANY board but it's about as consistent as you're going to get.
non-illuminated - check.
good materials and build quality - check
PBT keycaps - check.

I did a review on one recently; have a look if you're interested:

[Entropia]

Sure the Unicomp is great.  However I have mixed feelings about the buckling springs. Their performance is fantastic but I have the impression that Cherry switches are more pleasurable to type on. Its like they feel too agressive. I am now used to type on blacks and I love them. They feel smooth and nice. Actually,  if I purchase a Cherry switches board,  I am not sure if I would pick blues or again blacks. I dont know why they say they are not good for typing.

[keykaiser]

Who said that?  Buckling Springs and Blues are made for typing.

[Entropia]

I did a review on one recently; have a look if you're interested:

The issue with some off-centered legends on the keycaps really killed me. It's that kind of ugly details that noone should expect from a good and expensive keyboard that really makes me think of looking elsewhere.

[kaitos]

I'm seriously considering sacrifying my habit and the usability of a Spanish ISO layout and buy a USA ANSI keyboard. The range of possibilities if I do so are so vast! You Americans don't know how lucky you are in this sense. After all, I don't normaly use accents in Spanish and the Ñ is not a very common letter. The major problem is with other signs and their locations. I suppose some months of use would help me adapt my fingers and my brain.

Actually, I already developed a program in Autohotkey for a Spanish guy in a Spanish forum who bought a foreign keyboard. It makes the useless Appkey work like the shift for N -> Ñ, ? -> ¿, ! -> ¡, and also for accents, but in a different way, just like the accent key is used in Spanish (press the accent key, release it, press the vowel, and that's it: á, é, etc.) If anyone needs this script don't hesitate to ask me.

But, going back to the topic we we're discussing, I've found beauties such as this Ducky One non-backlit, with think PBT keycaps. Apart from the ISO and language, it has everything I could wish. I even like the color scheme. Do you know of any other quality keyboards which are non-backlit, which already come with thick PBT keycaps (with top, not front printed letters), and that have a full layout (I've seen many models with even more beautiful keycaps (I love big centered letters) but all are 60%, 40%, tenkeyless, etc.

Thanks!

Show Image

Don't go ANSI if you code, ANSI layout does accents and ñ perfectly in their spots, the problem is the key to do the <> and {} are gone. The rest is pretty much the same when you use an ANSI layaout on an ESP system.

[kalrand]

Don't go ANSI if you code, ANSI layout does accents and ñ perfectly in their spots, the problem is the key to do the <> and {} are gone. The rest is pretty much the same when you use an ANSI layaout on an ESP system.

If you use an ANSI keyboard, it'll act like an ANSI keyboard if you tell your OS that you have a US English keyboard.

Fun fact: Keyboards don't send a command like "print the { symbol for me!" when you hit a button. It send "they hit key 0x40". It's what your OS thinks is at key 0x40 that it translates into the letter or symbol.

So when I use an ANSI keyboard, it's really easy for me to type <> and {} but much harder to type ñ, since the US English keyboard doesn't have that letter.

[kaitos]

I meant,

If you use ANSI keyboard and set ESP lang on system, you can type exactly the same as if you were in an ISO keyboard, for example pressing the key ",<" next to "m" hey will yield me a "," or pressing ";:" key next to K will type ñ.

My whole point is that you can perfectly type in an ANSI keyboard by telling your system you are on an ISO keyboard (ESP) but when you will actually type <> you can't cause that key doesnt phisically exist (its next to z key)

[kalrand]

My whole point is that you can perfectly type in an ANSI keyboard by telling your system you are on an ISO keyboard (ESP) but when you will actually type <> you can't cause that key doesnt phisically exist (its next to z key)

If there is two things I will never understand about the rest of the world it is:
1) The metric system
2) Your left shift key is teeny tiny.

[Entropia]

As regard the language issue, I'd prefer to get used to the ANSI layout rather than having keycaps the legends of which do not correspond to their functions. Many of the signs on the numbers line are not used very frequently. Actually, I usually have to look at it to find the symbol I need. As for programming symbols, the ANSI layout is clearly more useful because it has specific keys for {} and [] which in Spanish ISO can only be obtained with Alt+Ctrl combinations. The only worries are the Spanish accents, which are used all the time. However, I'm working on a new script that makes the apostrophe key (which shares position with the Spanish accent key) to work both as apostrophe and as a key for accents (only when followed by vowels). For some other infrequent keys I could use a modifier key, such as FN, for instance to get: ñ, ¿, ¡, º, ª, ç and €. All this I've mentioned will work also with shift and with capslock. A special hotkey will enable and disable all these functions, in case you need to do so at a precise moment.

[Entropia]

My whole point is that you can perfectly type in an ANSI keyboard by telling your system you are on an ISO keyboard (ESP) but when you will actually type <> you can't cause that key doesnt phisically exist (its next to z key)

If there is two things I will never understand about the rest of the world it is:

1) The metric system

2) Your left shift key is teeny tiny.

1) No way. The metric system is what should be adopted internationally.

2) Yes, I've never used my left shift key in my life.

BTW, your Enter looks like a shift key I'm scared how many times I would hit "\" using an ANSI keyboard.

[zslane]

I think if you're hitting the \| key when the intent is to hit Return, then you're aiming too high with your finger. There's no reason to reach up into row 2 for the Return key, regardless of whether it is an ISO Return or ANSI Return. Ergo, taking up all that row 2 space is a needless waste on the ISO layout. There's just no logical defense for the ISO Return key.

And I never use the right Shift key, nor any of the right-side bottom-row modifiers. I know that proper touch-typing technique dictates that I use the Shift key opposite the side of the board that the alpha key is on, but I fell out of that habit in the early 1980s when I stopped using typewriters and began using computers (the constant use of the Ctrl key turned my left pinky into an all-purpose chording finger).

[kalrand]

If there is two things I will never understand about the rest of the world it is:

1) The metric system

2) Your left shift key is teeny tiny.

1) No way. The metric system is what should be adopted internationally.

2) Yes, I've never used my left shift key in my life.

BTW, your Enter looks like a shift key I'm scared how many times I would hit "\" using an ANSI keyboard.

1) Nah. Too many zeros and tens. We have better fractions.

2) I think I use it 75% of the time. When I'm on an international board it drives me nuts.

3a) Our Enter and our left shift are the same size!
3b) I hate that \ key. Personally, I use the "US Vertical Enter" layout. It's ANSI, but it uses an ISO enter key, and puts the \ to the lower left of the enter.

The only worries are the Spanish accents, which are used all the time. However, I'm working on a new script that makes the apostrophe key (which shares position with the Spanish accent key) to work both as apostrophe and as a key for accents (only when followed by vowels). For some other infrequent keys I could use a modifier key, such as FN, for instance to get: ñ, ¿, ¡, º, ª, ç and €. All this I've mentioned will work also with shift and with capslock. A special hotkey will enable and disable all these functions, in case you need to do so at a precise moment.

If you're on Linux (or some other unix-y system) look into learning about the "Compose Key". It's how this American can type all the bonus fun symbols like ½ and ‽.

If you're on windows, just give up now and use this to simulate a Linux compose key.

MacOS has some work arounds, but you're going to spend time googling around.

[zslane]

3b) I hate that \ key.

I use that key too much (for typing Windows paths and regexp strings) to relegate it to row 4. I find it unnerving to have it anywhere but above the Return key. Which is also why I don't care for the HHKB layout. That board puts the Backspace and |\ keys on the wrong rows!

[Niomosy]

As a UNIX admin, that layout the HHKB adopted can die in a fire as well.  The | symbol is used heavily and to have it placed so far away is idiotic.

[kalrand]

That's why when I mod my F boards, it's always with a vertical enter key.

It helps that I can reuse the / from an f when I do that.

And unicomp will happily sell you a new vertical enter model M.

Actually the scan code on the unused left of an ansi enter, and the unused top of an ISO enter are the same.

Though that's not the same on the old F's.

[aptivaboy]

Unicomp is having a nice warehouse sale. It looks like they're clearing out what's lurking in the back rooms. They have original IBM/Lexmark Model Ms on deep sale right now, including one with a Latin American layout, if that's what you're looking for. 

My Wordperfect keyed IBM/Lexmark board from them came today that I got in the sale. It feels great. They also sell the cable on their small parts page that you'll need for one of these.

Bob

EDIT: it looks like the sale just ended - sorry 'bout that. Still, here's the link if you wish to take a look: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Surplus


Bob

[Entropia]

Unicomp is having a nice warehouse sale. It looks like they're clearing out what's lurking in the back rooms. They have original IBM/Lexmark Model Ms on deep sale right now, including one with a Latin American layout, if that's what you're looking for. 

My Wordperfect keyed IBM/Lexmark board from them came today that I got in the sale. It feels great. They also sell the cable on their small parts page that you'll need for one of these.

Bob

EDIT: it looks like the sale just ended - sorry 'bout that. Still, here's the link if you wish to take a look: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Surplus


Bob

Thanx. I already saw that some days ago. However, I didn't know if what they sell at the warehouse are brand new models or used models. Anyway, I'm now more inclined into buying a US ANSI keyboard because of the chances of installing custom pbt keycaps.

[1391406]

I didn't know if what they sell at the warehouse are brand new models or used models.

New.

[Entropia]

That's interesting. However, the IBM model M units they had were from the nineties, not  the eighties, and they are different (no colored legends, no metal plate, no corded detachable cable...).

I think I've finally decided to get a Filco Majestocuh 2 US ANSI from keyboardco.com. It's 162€ shipping included to my country. Then, I'd spend some more money in a good set of keycaps. I've read Filco keyboards don't accept thick keycaps because of their stabs. Any advice? I'd really like a dual color set, for instance white or grey, or two tones of grey. Oh, and are the long keys complicated to remove and replace?

Edit: how about Vortex keycaps?
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1947
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1331 (maybe too gay for me)

[1391406]

That's interesting. However, the IBM model M units they had were from the nineties, not  the eighties, and they are different (no colored legends, no metal plate, no corded detachable cable...).

Considering they're from the '90s and don't have permanently attached cables, they're fine specimens, in my opinion. These were made before Unicomp changed the clamshell cover material and the case feels a lot more sturdy.

[Entropia]

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1947

39$ is a good price for this set of keycaps (pbt doubleshot), but 43$ for shipping!! and I guess I would still have to pay another 20€ or 30€ for customs taxes.